Does the public really acceot us more now?

[Jenny22]

In an earlier post (Coming out?), two related comments caught my eye .. better acceptance by the younger generation and by each succesive generation. Really? Some would say 'yes' and some would say 'no'.

What is YOUR position on this matter, and why? Please, if known, please give specific referrals to any media points to help support your thoughts which may be of benefit to others here.

[Krisi]

No, the public does not accept us more now. Some nuts in the media claim to but "real" people continue to joke about Bruce/Caitlin Jenner and others as well as crossdressers in general.

[Keira Bea]

Well, the real test is to go out dressed and find out for yourself.

I last went out on Tuesday afternoon to visit my niece which is a bus ride away. Despite noisy teenagers coming home from school around that time, not one comment made, no glances nor stares. No issues on the bus there or back Thirty years ago it would likely have been a lot more different. I think attitudes are improving. Most of the shit I presume to be online trolls but in reality, people tend to mind their own beeswax. I think because many are at the very least a bit more accepting/tolerant, and also partly because they are aware that they could be accused of hate speech/crimes.

[Alice Torn]

I tend to agree with Krisi. In the midwest areas i have lived the past almost nine yrs, nothing has changed much/

[AllieSF]

I disagree with Krisi. I believe that since more people are aware that we exist, a big thanks to Caitlyn Jenner and others like Laverne Cox, et al, who helped get the word "transgender" into the uninformed vocabulary, knowledge, understanding, tolerance and some support has definitely increased. Yes, there are those that will never tolerate us out there, but they are a small minority to all the others. The sky isn't falling and I believe that this new knowledge is helping others to understand us better. Back when I started my path down the road and across the spectrum there were only rare roles that represented transsexuals (E.g. The Crying Game), and now you have movie and television stories, including roles for and about transsexuals. Many of these roles are also being portrayed by transsexuals. That being said, only a few deal with crossdressers, which is a shame. However, since the general public many times lumps us all together, the benefits for the few have overflowed to the many (TS to CD). Finding information online is much easier and actually can yield good and meaningful results.

As for those that say that they want to go out but can't because they live in ultra conservative areas. I have always had a hard time understanding that because so many members here for all over the USA, including conservative areas go out and report never having problems. Most say that the general public has been very tolerating/accepting of them. Most times their perceived fear are more in their heads than out their where they live.

[Nikki A.]

I can only speak about the areas I have been dressed, which is the Poconos/ Lehigh Valley and Denver a few years ago. I had no problems in Denver and as I live in the Poconos and dress here frequently, I can honestly say that at least to my face there has been an acceptance or at least a tolerance.
I can relate an example, The church I now attend is accepting of me. We were discussing the church's past and it was mentioned that when they were looking to replace a priest, some 15+ years ago, there was a gay candidate. Very able and viable, but there was a hesitation on how the regular members would take to him, at this point, I said that if I was looking to join then, I probably wouldn't have lasted a week. They didn't disagree, but I got the drift. As it turns out,the reverend took himself out of consideration in that he felt the area wasn't lively or big enough for his Kansas tastes.
So in that today I am comfortable as Nikki, I am an active member on some of the boards and seem to have won over the majority of the members I can say things have changed for the better.

[Rachael Leigh]

Being that I live in a large but yet conservative metro area I find that most here just have more to deal with then trans folks
Now with that said there are places I would not venture into but that is true most places. I’ve nerver truly had any problem
being out where I live. I really think it’s all about how one presents themselves, if they look and act like they belong and
don’t make a big deal of who they are the better of you are. That’s my take

[Lana Mae]

From my experiences being out and in a very conservative area, no problems! Oh,yes a bad look once in a while but no words spoken! And I had to go one county over and to a larger city to find an accepting church! Just my experiences! Hugs Lana Mae

[mykell]

i believe it does, we watch shows like "empire" and "star" and it is not comic relief that LGBT characters are used as....i believe they are a truer representation of who we are in a wide spectrum too....so with a decent depiction of who we are on prime time TV news stories are not the only source. these types of shows are not the reality type like Jaz and the like.

online stories are scary when you read the comments when the topic is "trans whatever" but those folks have keyboard muscles, if out in public those who post that way would tend to keep it to themselves and not cause a fuss. i have had comments out loud on one occasion, awkward stares and shaking heads of disapproval and will just smile and go on my way, takes some thick skin and i live in liberal new Jersey but i think they're just a bunch of hypocrites about it. being 6' flat footed and 42 in girth does not help me blend but i try my best.

[Kandi Robbins]

Been out hundreds and hundreds of times (I never pass, never will). Yes, unequivocally the public is more accepting.

I have real life, actual experience.

[t-girlxsophie]

Based on my varied trips out I believe there is more acceptance,I do feel more comfortable now through that.of course that doesnt mean you don't still have to be aware

Sophie

[Jean 103]

Before when?

I don’t think celebs do much at all.

I’ve been out for a while now.

What I have found is that people have been touched by someone in the LGBT community.

It’s these individuals that have made the difference in my world. Two such individuals come to mind. You would not know them as they are just two people living their lives. By living their lives here, the people they touch are influenced. There are many others.

Then I came along and stirred the pot some more.

It continues as life goes on.
Personal relationships is what makes the difference. People living their lives in the open.

[Christie ann]

Yes I think there is more acceptance now. I remember being in a liberal college town in the mid 1980’s and asked for help with make up at a make up counter. I was told “ We don’t do men” . Now, I can go out in a very conservative city and not only get a make over but can try on wedding dresses with other brides in the same store. I won’t say that all the moms are excited about my presence, but from our conversations, I don’t think the brides seem to mind.

That being said, I was out the other day and at the checkout counter I had the feeling the woman looked at me and ( as I put words in her mouth) seemed to think here we go again, another trans person...

[Kelly DeWinter]

. Murders are down
. Beatings are down.
. Health benefits are down
. Unemployment is slightly down
. The number of used closets are up on eBay although not selling to well

Yeah I'd say thing are better.

[Celee]

I think that in today’s environment most people are afraid to stick their nose into other people’s business. When I was a kid everyone would watch the neighborhood and would report back to your mom after they told you what they thought about you and your behavior. There was no hesitation about stating their opinion so anything you did was top secret.

[anita1]

Well, the real test is to go out dressed and find out for yourself.

I last went out on Tuesday afternoon to visit my niece which is a bus ride away. Despite noisy teenagers coming home from school around that time, not one comment made, no glances nor stares. No issues on the bus there or back Thirty years ago it would likely have been a lot more different. I think attitudes are improving. Most of the shit I presume to be online trolls but in reality, people tend to mind their own beeswax. I think because many are at the very least a bit more accepting/tolerant, and also partly because they are aware that they could be accused of hate speech/crimes.

Agree with what Keira writes... The real test is to do it publicly and the real path to social acceptance for our lot is for enough CDers to do so. But I do have say you do need to be smart and safe about it foremost. In general it seems that younger people are more accepting of gender nonconformity, (but keep in mind, they also may not want to hang around a someone who isn't their age--depending on how old you are yourself). Really, when it comes down to it, most people most of the time have 101 things they care more about than what someone else they are passing by is wearing clothes-wise.

[mercterr]

I think people are more tolerant of differences today. The younger generation is definitely more tolerant than their parents. There are way more characters portrayed in pop culture today that are gay or trans. It's not a death sentence to the career of a a professional athlete or anyone else really to be openly gay. That being said, I don't think it is openly embraced or encouraged in society today to be gender fluid. So while it is better than in the past, it's still not fantastic.

[Beverley Sims]

The younger generation has been taught to be more tolerant of people with differences, the older generation are not nearly as accepting.

[Aunt Kelly]

No, the public does not accept us more now. Some nuts in the media claim to but "real" people continue to joke about Bruce/Caitlin Jenner and others as well as crossdressers in general.

So the ignorant and fearful are the "real" people? And those "nuts" in the media are just what? Fake news? That's just rubbish.

To be sure, those poor people do exist, and that fear and ignorance is being cynically exploited by certain groups, but I am here to tell you that the Jenny's observation about younger people being more accepting, in general, is absolutely true. I've experienced it myself. More than once, I have had a young person approach me, a complete stranger, to say how wonderful it was to see me out in the real world. One even asked for a hug. Yes, that kind of thing is still uncommon in more backwards communities, but even that is changing.

Yes, change usually comes in steps, some forward and some backwards, but one can't deny the progress that has been made for LGBTQ rights and understanding. Never, never believe that change is not happening, and that more is not possible.

[Macey]

These days folks are so buried in their electronics that I'd imagine a person could be walking down the street, head deep into their phone, pass three or four CDers on the street without noticing while simultaneously posting flaming comments against crossdressers on the interwebs

[Helen_Highwater]

Jenny,

As it's only in the last 5 or 6 years that I've been going out in public in some ways it's difficult to gauge the true position. What I can reflect upon is just how Gay people were represented in the media. They were very much stereotyped as being effeminate, overly exaggerated gestures, camp. Jokes might start, "Have you heard the one about the puff who.....". Generally they were not portrayed well.

Now it's a much better portrayal and it's on the back of that we now enjoy greater acceptance. As being Gay has largely lost its taboo nature and many public figures are openly Gay. It's become largely a non event to the general population. True there are still those who hold bigoted views but without generalising too much, they tend to be the same cohorts that are either racist xenophobes or hold a religious belief.

So my experiences of being out and about I would say have been 99.9% positive and even the 0.1% have only been relatively minor events, the pointed use of the incorrect pronoun, "Here's your change,...Mate!". Beyond that I've had many a conversation with a total stranger, most SA's but also random interactions while on public transport. Positive affirming comments about a blouse I've been wearing or the colour of my nails.

And it's not just SA's doing their job and being polite because they have to. You don't end up chatting about broken down heating boilers unless that person wants to share their woes with you.

So yes, I feel things are improving and I have to say while more prevalent in the young it's not totally confined to them.

[GretchenM]

In my opinion, it depends on where you are. Denver is very tolerant, accepting, and supportive. Colorado Springs, 60 miles to the south, is generally only tolerant, except in one of the burbs, Manitou Springs, where there is greater acceptance. In general, the more conservative regions are less so, but even in liberal areas there are parts of the community CDs and TGs should stay out of unless you are carrying a weapon. Even here in Denver there are neighborhoods where it would be dangerous to go. But in some towns in the more rural areas of the state, especially eastern Colorado which is very conservative on the whole, you will get the evil eye from most everyone. But you are still safe. I suspect it is more or less the same elsewhere, that is, it depends.

But, in my opinion, there is a whole lot of educating going on and people's minds are changing. I am non-binary and therefore have a mixed gender expression. The younger generation love it, those who are middle aged are more accepting if female and less if male, and in my own generation there is a lot of head shaking. I get favorable spoken "reviews" from young women, but only smiles from older women. Men? Well, what can I say. But the highest percentage goes to the people who are just tolerant.

[Teresa]

Jenny,
It's only a question that can be truly answered by ones who have experienced it and also the style of appearance depending how you wish to present yourself in the RW .

I know there are obvious culural differences beween the UK and the US so I can only give my reply from a UK perspective .

After a year of being full time my reply has to be total acceptance , not a single comment, no misgendered moments . This has been irrespective of age groups , the best example I can give was when I accompanied my daughter and granddaughter to see a pantomime . It was an afternoon performance the theatre was full with ages ranging from young children to elderly grandparents , I felt totally comfortable , I chatted with a group of teenagers while queing for ice creams in the interval .

As for everyday, SAs are fine no matter what the retail outlet , the staff are fine in my opticians , the medical team are very helpful in my GP's surgery . I openly chat to dog walkers .

The fear of stepping out the door is the biggest obstacle , epecially if you're in a DADT situation . The list of worries , what will the neighbours think , what if you run into one of your friends or work colleagues ! The point to remember is you and I aren't the only CDers or TGs, there are far more TG people out there than you can imagine , I've discovered this by the people I've spoken to . So many people have family members or close friends who are in transition or TG , I can count now of at least 12 F/M I've been told about surprisingly less M/Fs .

Sometimes I feel our little stories of being out in the RW are boring to some people , to others it's the lifeline to take that first step , I love to read about those first experiences because everyone who takes the plunge passes on the courage and hope to the next person . Many of the stories then relate to them saying , " What was all the fuss about ? "

[MonicaPVD]

I agree with Teresa. It depends on where you are and how you present yourself. If you dress to blend in, people will for the most part treat you like just another woman. If you dress to stand out, you will stand out and get lots of attention, good and not so good. Now, people in less cosmopolitan areas tend to gawk a little more but most people are much more polite, reserved or self-absorbed than in the past. This has been my experience.

[NancySue]

No...not in our conservative, opinionated, religious area. A local GLBT group has been trying for years, but rejection and ridicule continue. Maybe some day, but I doubt it.

[susan54]

In Scotland everything is fine. I feel totally comfortable going out dressed as a woman. The increased media coverage of transsexuals has improved things a lot for them but it has rather confused the issue for crossdressers. Lots of people now believe that any man wearing women's clothes has gender issues. I don't. I am acting. I have no confusion over my gender. Any boy who wants to wear a skirt to school will be drawn into this whole gender thing and welcomed as such - maybe he just wants to wear a skirt. So we need a bit more PR for crossdressers.

[phili]

I present genderqueer- i.e. beard and a dress, and I experience exactly what all the transformation dressers experience- same range of quizzical or disapproving frowns to friendly looks and warm chats. The range of ages reflect their upbringing - from those of my generation who were taught to harass anyone veering slightly off the expected roles for males and females, or who have been steeped in religious rationales for those roles, to those who recently grew up- on modern media in which genderbending is shown every 10 minutes and simply is part of popular culture- representing the idea of free thinking.

Transgender is now mainstream, but crossdressing without claiming to be transgender is not understood because it is not clear why- what do we want?

That said, put yourself in the shoes of an observer- you see a man who is to some degree or other adopting the dress and manner of women. You try to understand what he is doing- is he transgender and just living his life, like Teresa or Kandi? If Teresa or Kandi talks to you, it will feel weirdly normal. Weird because of the gender bending, but normal because they are normal. Because it is weird you will be cautiously polite at first, but after the first few minutes you will forget the dress and think about how you relate as people.

If you see me, you will feel a terrible tangle of sensations- conflicting emotions driven by years of training in how to react to the visuals of men and women. But as soon as I speak to you, you will suddenly come back to reality and feel yourself more at ease as we talk. same transition from weird to normal. Weird because I am obviously not trying to look facially female, but my clothing is very feminine and normally only found on females. Sometimes there are traces of femininity showing in how I move, or how I am observing, -but then again I feel to you a lot like a man and reliable in that way. And there are no danger signals, I am not drugged, or flirting, I am not nervous or hiding, I am not pretending, ... so well there is really no problem, and ........anyway, what were we saying?

Then the question arises - do you want to be friends with this crossdressing man? What will others think, etc? Do I want to support trans people or have it be a problem?

As others have said, I make friends when in a dress the same way I always do. Some people like me and want to be friends, and they are relating to me as a person and clothing choices, after the initial shock where they are 98%, drop to just about 8% of the picture, and 0% of the actual relationship. Anyone who wants to have me or anyone here as a friend has plenty of cover- 'he is transgender/gender fluid/gender non-conforming"

[DMichele]

I agree with Allie. I believe there is increasing acceptance of the transgender community by the public.

While dressed in obvious but appropriate for the occasion female attire, carting a purse and wearing light makeup, I have experienced that acceptance while encountering several work colleagues and other acquittances at the grocery store. We carried on conversations without any issues.

In addition, I have been to the dentist and the hair salon while wearing all female attire, purse et al and had complements on my top and or booties from the GGs.

These experiences have helped me become more comfortable with my identity, and hopefully will help the public overcome their reservations about the transgender community.

[sometimes_miss]

Tolerate is a better word. They still don't accept us, and the NIMBY attitude is still widely practiced. While there are fewer assaults and murders of transgendered people, it still happens, and as always, we still need to be very careful when going out alone, especially at night. Just like REAL women. So enjoy THAT almost universal feminine experience; fear. Because the real haters just might not give you any warning that they want to hurt you, and you can't defend yourself from a surprise attack. It's the one thing that none of the martial arts places can teach you how to fight against; a stealthy assault with a deadly weapon from behind, when you're not expecting it. No one is on alert and has perfect situational awareness 100% of the time.

[foxy bartender]

I can only speak for myself, as a full time femme, non binary person, out and about, living in the southern US. I’ve found that even though Tennessee is in the Bible Belt, people here are more accepting. In the last year, I’ve not had one bad experience out dressed, and I go out all the time. I’ve definitely noticed more acceptance from the younger folks, and more tolerance from the older folks, and if tolerance is all I can get, I’m very good with that. I just want to go about my life. I never thought I’d feel comfortable enough to go out at all, never mind live full time. It’s a brave new world.
Just a sign that people are becoming more accepting, Tennessee just passed a new law, adding trans and gender non conforming people to the classes that are protected under hate crime laws. It’s one of the first states to do so, at that level. Our metro police force has even taken a step further and created a department with a specific liaison to the lgbtq+ community, to help make it easier and more comfortable for us to interact with officers, as well as offering training and continued education for on duty officers to help them be more sensitive and understanding of us. Things like that would have never happened 20, even 10 years ago.
That’s just like, my opinion, man

[Taylor186]

I've lived for 45 years in a Midwest 30,000 population red leaning city, in a 120,000 population definitely red county.

Two years ago an Ulta opened in our busy commercial district and when my wife and I visited an attractive, well groomed trans (MTF) was serving customers at the main checkout counter. A year ago our biggest and most upscale grocery added a trans (MTF) at the checkout counters and customers seem to take her line just as much as any other. Two weeks ago I stopped at a local Italian carryout I frequent to find a trans (MTF) taking and filling orders. None of these would have happened here five years ago let alone 10, 20 or 30 years ago. All were in their 20s, obviously trans, dressed appropriately for the job and interacted easily with customers.

I'm not saying a 6", 190 lb, 50+ crossdresser (like myself) would get the same reception. I tend to agree with Phili that trans (particularly younger trans) are generally more accepted, where crossdressers and gender variant dressers still raise a non-understanding eyebrow.

[Teresa]

Phili,
If I might relate a story that only happened today . I had to meet up with my daughter's mother in law to spend some time with my 6 year old granddaughter . I may have mentioned she is mildly autistic . We decided to take her to a lovely garden to show her the snowdrops the car park was full, she wasn't on good form. We had to find ways to entertain her, the pair of us really were treated like two ladies caring for her, there was no feeling of apprehension or weirdness or suggestion of gender bending , yes it did feel totally normal . In fact a group of ladies with a child came and sat with us for a while and chatted while the children played .

I can't thank this lady enough for the opportunity she's giving me to integrate so much into society , she's just grateful to have some help with the little girl as she has her most weekends .

I know it's becoming an old record now but days like this really do bury all our labels , it just feels normal being Teresa .

[Alice B]

I do believe that public perception is changing,as are legal standards. But as they have said - you have a long way to go baby

[Eboni Robinson]

At large, I think so. There are a lot of societal shifts, some good and some bad. I think we are more accepting and tolerant as a whole. There will always be those individuals who won't be accepting or tolerant. And that's their right as long as they don't try to bring any harm towards you or your person.

[Shirley Anne]

In Scotland everything is fine. I feel totally comfortable going out dressed as a woman. The increased media coverage of transsexuals has improved things a lot for them but it has rather confused the issue for crossdressers. Lots of people now believe that any man wearing women's clothes has gender issues. I don't. I am acting. I have no confusion over my gender. Any boy who wants to wear a skirt to school will be drawn into this whole gender thing and welcomed as such - maybe he just wants to wear a skirt. So we need a bit more PR for crossdressers.


I cant agree more Susan, like yourself I am purely a crossdresser with no confusion about who I am, but any kid who shows any sign of wearing clothes of the opposite sex is now automatically transgengender. Another example of politcal correctness gone mad.

[Jason+]

Overall I think the needle is slowly shifting. A lot also has to do with where your particular "public' happens to be. A friend of mine from TX insists I'd have no issues in his town but his state joined a group of 16 or so asking the supreme court for the right to discriminate against trans people. It's great not to worry I'd catching a beating but the current law there would absolutely allow an employer to fire me for a dress even if it wasn't on company time. Here by the letter of the law and company training not only won't they fire me for it they aren't even supposed to laugh at me about it. Reactions to me locally are a lot like today when I went out to pick up Chinese food. A lady was walking out the door past where I was sitting and stopped, turned around and said "I love your shoes!" There are laughs and stares and people not quite a slick with their camera phones as they think too lol .

[ellbee]

Younger generation more accepting?


Yeah... No, not particularly.

Thinking of the guys at work, for example, in their 20's & 30's?

I'd get absolutely roasted by them. Would never hear the end of it, and they would never look at me or treat me the same again.


All set with that, thanks.


Fortunately, I live in the opposite direction of them, from work. So, we don't really share the same stomping grounds, and I feel pretty comfortable out & about in my neck of the woods, knowing that the odds of running into them are pretty minimal.


Am I "chickening out" by "hiding" this part of me? Eh, to be honest, throughout the years I've tended to keep my personal life separate & private from my professional life... None of my co-workers' business what I do outside of work, really. I don't really share much -- of *anything*!

Only exception was one job where I worked with a lot of GG's... And not only did some of them know about this part of me, but they also hung out with "her" outside of work! :battingeyelashes:



Anyway, just my opinion, but I think it's important to keep in mind that just because you don't get your butt kicked, or the general public doesn't call you names to your face, or anything else in that vein, does *not* necessarily mean that they're suddenly now "cool" with it all, ya know?

Also, the young person (especially a GG) at their job who may be serving you, as a paying customer, in some capacity... And they seem pretty friendly & accepting & whatever? Again, I wouldn't necessarily automatically assume they are giving you a full "thumbs-up." In reality, they may just care more about their job -- or more to the point, of not losing that job. ;)


A bit pessimistic view on things? Perhaps, arguably.

But it's also okay to sometimes take things with a large grain of salt, when dealing with the reality of people. :)

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Some nuts in the media claim to

Why do you think the media is wrong?


but "real" people continue to joke about Bruce/Caitlin Jenner and others as well as crossdressers in general.

Who are you calling "real"? And where are these people? Perhaps, those "real" people are just a few loudmouthed bigots. Perhaps you need to find better people.


I tend to agree with Krisi. In the midwest areas i have lived the past almost nine yrs, nothing has changed much/

What? Did you just time travel from the 70's or something? For goodness sake.. Illinois! You know the state where gender identity has been part of the Human Rights Act since 2006! Maybe like Krisi, you keep company with the wrong kind of people?


Yes, unequivocally the public is more accepting.

I have real life, actual experience.

While my sitation/identity is different, I never had any real negative experiences when I was out in public back when I identified as a CD. Downstate, Suburbs, didn't matter.

Veronica

[syome]

I dont think more accepting is really the right word tbh, its more that people are less likely to confront you or make a scene about it. People are far more centered on themselves and while they might comment if you get clocked, they are not going to really do anything and will simply move on. But i dont really think they are more accepting in terms of being ok with it, they just dont want to have that argument.

I have dressed up in multiple states and havent really had too many issues, what i have noticed though is that people will simply avoid us if they can. I have dressed up in Kansas City a few times and its kind of a missed bag in terms of how welcoming people are. People will generally just ignore or avoid me. I have never had anyone confront me about it or be distasteful or threatening in the midwest. Interestingly enough shopping in Kansas City has been a really positive experience, i have never ran into any store person who has refused to help me or given me push back. I have only gotten pushback in terms of dressing rooms in Los Angeles and NYC, which you would think would be the more welcoming places.

Now, in terms of work, people there dont really have a choice. While i dont dress up for work, i do have my nails painted and manicured occasionally and maintain my eyebrows shaped. No one at work will every say anything becuase my employer has a zero tolerance policy for any kind of bullying like that. I have spoken with my HR team about the possibility of dressing up for work and they welcomed the idea as long as my presentation remains professional.

[Maid_Marion]

The young Kohls cashier congratulated me on my great bargains. I bought three very nice long sleeve T shirts at 80% off. About as feminine as you get, a cheery paisley, pink, and mint!

[Periwinkle]

I don't go out dressed as often as I did before, but over here, nobody's said anything to me about it. Though, I don't typically do a ton of talking to people when I'm fully dressed up.

I do present myself as being pretty androgynous almost every day, though. I've been wearing makeup a lot more and getting more creative with my outfit choices. Most of the time I just get compliments if anything. Maybe an awkward stare from time to time. But that's the worst of it! I am living on a college campus though, so that might have a lot to do with the generally positive attitude from my peers.

[Glenda58]

I've driven from Tenn. to Mich. dressed. Stopping for gas using the restrooms, going to eat. and shopping. I've never had a problem.

[Stephanie47]

All is not rosy in the good old USA. This past month some lawmakers in Tennessee introduced legislation (again) to adversely affect gays and lesbians and transgender men and women. Yes, more people, especially younger men and women, are more accepting. However, there is a core group, who will never accept anyone not like themselves. They may not get in your face about it, but, they will not give you a big hug too.

Washington State laws protect gays and lesbians, transgender men and women, and, freedom of expression of sexual identity. Violations are also characterized as a hate crime. Some municipalities go further than the state law in protecting their rights. Not so in many states. And, certainly not with many national political figures.

I have seen more and more transgender men and women openly presenting. I have also seen many more same sex couples freely acting as other married couples do.

[Ressie]

I see where Krisi is coming from. Sure you can go out dressed a lot without any problems. But does that mean those that see you dressed are really more accepting than they were 10 years ago? Some of them, yes, but some are also laughing behind your backs.

Guys that have done a lot of male bonding through sports or the military are more likely not accepting. Even if they are, they still have to laugh about TGs when they're with their drinking buddies. How many thousands of guys on the golf course laughed at Caitlin Jenner for example?

Furthermore, most people want to appear to be nice in public. Most aren't gonna laugh right in your face.

The way that muggles become accepting is to actually spend a little time with a transgender person to see that we are just (for the most part) regular folks. My ex always thought CDs were weirdos, but she's been meeting a few at the LGBT church she's been attending.

I'm sure we've come a long way but consider where you are too. If you're in the Middle East for example you should probably stay inside if you cross dress.

[phili]

I think we can safely say that things are better, even if some people crack jokes. We can breathe now, go shopping, go out for lunch or a walk, do volunteer work, etc. [Thankfully, we are not in the Middle East, or other similar hostile, controlling countries.] Men and women in groups my make jokes or negative observations, as a way of bonding- and clinging to old norms in the absence of any real reason to feel inclusive about trans folk. But I saw my family's values and conversations change overnight after some of the kids turned out to be gay or married someone outside our ethnic group. There was some muttering for a few years, but now it is seen as part of the massive cultural change. I would assume now that anyone around me was likely to have a trans person in their lives- so it just doesn't make for good conversation anymore.

It isn't very practical anymore for most people to easily maintain an objection to someone's identity. They will have to try to explain it to others, but even in a small town, if your grocery clerk is trans, then you know the owner has decided it is ok, or it is simply the law, and therefore you will find it difficult to complain to others about the clerk, since it reflects on the owner, and their friends and family, one of whom is in your wife's cardplaying group, and another the star pitcher on your kids' team, etc. Live and let live just works a lot better.

THe kids we see coming out are helping everyone understand that gender is not simple, and it is private, with people simply being respected as fellow citizens, really. That includes all cds who dont have an explicit rationale, don't identify as trans, etc. It doesn't matter, IMHO- it is obvious that we need to crossdress enough that we do it, or that we are trying to communicate or feel something. No one needs to know anything more about us, just accept us as another type of citizen.

[SamanthaToday]

I cant say whether the general public views have changed or not, since I didn't start my journey until later in life, im 57, soon to be 58 UGgggg..

It would take someone who's gone through all the pain and tribulations that go along with being outcast and crapped on during the early years of the 60's 70's 80's 90's to say whether that's true or not, im thinking today is better.

Earlier tonight I sat at an island bar in my home drinking wine chatting with my wife while she was making dinner.

My daughter came down from upstairs(homework, She's 24) and asked a question that only Dad seems to be able to answer, this while im sitting in a dress, with makeup on.
Now granted I hit the lottery for acceptance, but would this scene even happen for any of us even 30 years ago?

I do go out, in fact I just went out last Saturday to a Pub, this was to a avenue I have never been to and a City I have never dressed in.

I met 4 other girls and had drinks and danced, this was just an everyday Pub that had a live band.

As usual I stressed for hours before going out, I always do, only to find no one cares, and I mean shockling so.

Not one person gave a weird look , in fact most went out of there way to converse...

I did get some looks from 2 males at the bar, but that's another story :)

Im still a rookie at going out, but I can say I haven't had one bad experience yet, they do happen though, you hear stories from friends, recently a girl friend had a horrible experience with a taxi driver... Its the total flip side to my first experience with a taxi drive.. but that's ancient history..

Right now all the fear is from within, and not from those around me.

Samantha

[closets]

your presentation and where you cd matters. blending in and pleasant attitude helps. trans awareness leaves a lot of people assuming you're mtf trans. numbers are still small. it's weird when people are just happy to see someone out, and trying. I have had more positive experiences then bad.

[faltenrock]

My personal experience over the years is, people seem to be much more tolerant these days.
I've been out hundreds of times to all place you might go to, might it be restaurants, McDonalds, museums, ferry rides, movies, bars, clubs - whatever.
The last negative comment on my dressing must be more than 10 years ago.

People also start conversations with me, and 50 % of those conversations are not about my dressing and appearance.

[MonicaPVD]

After more than a year of presenting in public with no issues at all, I went to an ethnic restaurant recently and had my first unfortunate experience. The two employees were clearly uneducated and unsophisticated recently-immigrated peasants and they couldn't stop pointing my way, joking and laughing. I didn't mind it because, well, they are idiots and I am a fairly confident person. However, I would never go back to that place. I present in public nearly on a daily basis and this was the first time that I was not treated as a woman with dignity and respect. Such is life!

[BrendaPDX]

I think it has gotten better. I still get clocked every time I go out, but no comments, just a few wide eyed stares. I don't worry about getting the crap kicked out of me, but I am more aware of where I am. Thanks for asking.

[Sallee]

I would say yes we are more accepted. Certainly by teens and adults.

[5150 Girl]

I think it's partly a matter of where you live. A more conservative community or someplace in the "Bible belt" will clearly not be as tolerant as others. The other part is, do you attempt to pass, or are you just presenting as a man in a dress. I think people will have more acceptance for someone who is truly transgender, (thanks to the recent awareness efforts) than they will from someone who seems to be just dressing up for some weekend kicks.
My community is mildly conservative. I work in my local mall at a kiosk. I have one of the best sales records of anyone at my store. I dress to "pass" and if I'm getting read, I can count on one hand (and have fingers left over) the number of times someone let on...

[Maid_Marion]

We have a doctor in town that lists LGBTQ medicine as one of her specialties!

[Eemz]

Things have improved out of all recognition here at least, although I do tend to agree that it's more an acceptance of trans people than of crossdressing as such.

But in the end of the day, if some randomer thinks you're trans and you're not - who cares? If they're nice to you and respectful and let you enjoy your day and go about your business, then what's the problem?

I do agree that in principle it would be better it they understood that CD is a thing in its own right and not odd or better or worse than anything else. But if this thread is about the ability to go out into the world and be yourself - whoever that might be and whyever - then I do think that has improved a lot. My 2c.

[Krisi]

Why do you think the media is wrong?


Who are you calling "real"? And where are these people? Perhaps, those "real" people are just a few loudmouthed bigots. Perhaps you need to find better people.


Veronica


Insulting me doesn't make your position any more valid. Talk about intolerance. And thinking that anyone who doesn't share your point of view is a bigot is the definition of bigotry.

Perhaps you live in the land of lollypops and unicorns, but the situation is very different in Anytown, USA. Men who throw on a wig and a pair of fake boobs and parade around town in a dress are still thought of as weird. And while they may not be physically attacked, they will still get the catcalls and dirty looks.

[Kelly DeWinter]

Okay;

Lets dial it back to the OP and not get personal by anyone. It's not fair to the OP to have the thread closed.

If you feel that someone is commenting on you personally take it to a private conversation , 9 times out of 10 its a misunderstanding of a simple phrase and not a personal attack.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Insulting me doesn't make your position any more valid.

I didn't insult you. All I did was call out those "real" people you mentioned as bigots. So unless you identify WITH those "real" people, you shouldn't have a problem. And You didn't answer my question of "why you think the media is wrong" and "where"


Talk about intolerance. And thinking that anyone who doesn't share your point of view is a bigot is the definition of bigotry.

Share my point of view? What point of view is it you think I have? Being homophobic or transphobic is literal bigotry. You're also basically calling those people who called out religious, racial, ethnic or gender bigotry in the past, bigots. Why on earth would you say that?


Perhaps you live in the land of lollypops and unicorns, but the situation is very different in Anytown, USA.

Oh, You're basically doing that "you big city damnyankees aren't Real Americans" bit on me. Who says I don't live in the Illinois version of Anytown USA.


Men who throw on a wig and a pair of fake boobs and parade around town in a dress are still thought of as weird.

Perhaps. But how are the public to learn otherwise if they don't interact with them.


And while they may not be physically attacked, they will still get the catcalls and dirty looks.

Catcalls and dirty looks are RUDE. As I said, perhaps you need to find better people who don't do that.

Veronica

[Teresa]

Krisi,
It's very sad and possibly insulting to resort to that description , it means far more to me and many others here to desribe it in those terms . Also the described reaction is so far from the truth , I've been out full time for a year now and not had any sort of reaction at all , I just go about my business , chatting to people , having a laugh , it really is very normal , honestly no BS !

[t-girlxsophie]

Every time I post about being out and about without major incident (im not out every day perhaps once a month)the usual suspects argue my view,.Im not saying I live in some utopian society,believe me the West of Scotland certainly ain't that,but neither am I blowing smoke up anyone's *** believe me if I thought I was being ridiculed at every turn I wouldn't step out the door.

As long as you are conscious about your surroundings,and don't take unnecessary risks,actually in the same way you would even if not out dressed,I mean there's some places I'd think twice about venturing near if It was the male me,you should be able to go about your day without worrying that your going to get catcalled or even attacked, sure some ppl will double take etc but hell they are in your consciousness for what,a second and quickly forgot about,I mean in today's fast paced world most folk are just happy getting on with their day,rather than wasting time clocking every person passing them by or even giving a toss if it happens to be a CD

Im wondering if Perhaps not having experience in another country,colours some people's judgements maybe it's completely different in your part of the world

Sophie

[char GG]

Mod here.

Everyone will have a different experience depending on when and where they go out. It’s their experience and their opinion whether it’s a good or bad outing, No “right or wrong” Please respect others opinions and no more bickering.

[Asew]

I think there is more acceptance. Obviously different areas have different levels of acceptance, but what I see is that the overall trend is that most places are becoming more and more accepting.

[ReineD]

Maybe on the coasts. Not so much in the middle or in the South. I think it's getting worse given our current political landscape.

[faltenrock]

Maybe on the coasts. Not so much in the middle or in the South. I think it's getting worse given our current political landscape.

As a European, German person, I feel extremely sorry for the USA and the current political landscape. Having lived in the USA, having travelled to the USA 10 times from 2008 - 2014, I wonder why there is no more protest on the streets.
I hope the country will move on to something better.
I wish you alle the best....

[Teresa]

Faltenrock,
I have to agree with you it's much easier for us in the UK , dare I ask the dreaded question , will it all change after Brexit ?

[Debs]

yes , agree, I go shopping, in the past i got the odd glimps, but now, nobody bothers, peeps even interact and talk, lets face it , we arnt a threat

- - - Updated - - -

we arnt breaking the law, if i was in trouble shouting and atractinting attention would be the last thing they wanted, so remember that when you you out dressed, you aint breaking any laws, dressing is not a crime !!!!!!

[Aunt Kelly]

Maybe on the coasts. Not so much in the middle or in the South. I think it's getting worse given our current political landscape.
It certainly seems that way, but what's really happening is that the radical fringe of racist, xenophobic, homophobic and transphobic haters have been emboldened by a cynical few who wield the populist message that these groups of "the other" are a threat. Meanwhile the bulk of society has indeed become progressively more accepting and understanding. Society has become more polarized.

[Lacey New]

I don’t know if it is acceptance or tolerance. For anyone who has held a job in the last 30 years, we have all been subjected to anti harassment training. You can’t discriminate on the basis of race, religion, gender, national origin, handicap, etc, etc. and inevitably, cross dressing falls closely to gender.
So, whatever people’s private feelings, most people have learned to at the very least to keep their mouths shut and mind their own business. However, I do agree that in most metropolitan areas, crossdressing is just not a huge deal.

[Krisi]

More acceptance? Let's ask the members here who have to hide their crossdressing from their wives or SOs. You know, the ones who keep their clothing and wigs in a box in the basement or attic or in a shed in the back yard. Let's ask the members who are in a DADT situation where their wives "allow" them do dress as long as they don't see it or hear about it. Let's ask those who dress up and go out for walks in the middle of the night in deserted parks or streets because they are afraid to be seen. And let's ask those who have been threatened or actually chased or attacked by strangers. Or maybe just some dirty ot threatening looks.

More acceptance is a myth.

[Aunt Kelly]

More acceptance? Let's ask the members here who have to hide their crossdressing from their wives or SOs. You know, the ones who keep their clothing and wigs in a box in the basement or attic or in a shed in the back yard. Let's ask the members who are in a DADT situation where their wives "allow" them...


More acceptance is a myth.

So let's limit the sample population to the known set of "unaccepting", imply that this represents the entire population, and blithely pronounce "acceptance is a myth".
That is just patently absurd.

[MoGG]

Well Billy Porter just wore a big foofy frock to the Oscars and was generally commended for it in the mainstream press.
He wasn’t crossdressing as much as trying to push the aesthetic space allowed to men, but the fact that he and quite a few other prominent and fashionable men are claiming that space with very little resistance is also reflected in greater tolerance for actual cross dressers?

[Shelly Preston]

Please remember no one has all the answers or maybe we do

This is a worldwide forum we a have a lot of wide and varied views.

I live in Scotland an have never had any real issues.

Now If i lived in Jamaica or some African countries I would be in fear of my life.

Any answer you read is based on personal experience so take that in to account and keep it civil.

[Teresa]

Krisi,
If only it was as simple as that !

It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking evryone's circumstances mirrors their own, the plain truth is they don't . We have georaphical differences , cultural differences the list could go on . Whe then have to consider the individual needs of the CDer/TG person, we are all on different parts of the TG spectrum , from the occasional dresser right through to transition , beyond that it becomes a different ball game . Now add to this mix the individual access /permission or whatever you choose to call the restrictions either self induced or from outside agencies . The point is some need more acceptance than others , yes that does come at a price for some more than others .

The problem of needing and achieveing acceptance is often not what the RW thinks but from the people on your own doorstep , acceptance is not a myth , it's something some of us have to work very hard for but it's achievable , once you get to that stage the World really does become your oyster because the RW really doesn't care .

I've been out full time for a year now without a single problem , no threatening looks , not been chased down the street , I get on fine with everyone I come into contact with , I've not been misgengered by anyone .

It possibly has nothing to do with being accepted as a TG but more to do with being accepted as a decent, open , friendly person .

One question for you Krisi , why do you feel you need to go out with your wife's support , does she enjoy it or is it a burden to her , or are you showing people you a have her acceptance and permission ?

[Alice Torn]

Shelly is so right. Western nations,there is mostly tolerance, but many attitudes. In some other nations, it is very dangerous to one's life to CD.

[Ressie]

What about the youtube video someone made of a CD walking down the street with a friend walking behind? The friend walking behind heard remarks and saw reactions of people that the CD didn't see or hear.

If you could only read the minds of people passing by! Some here aren't even accepting unless a crossdresser passes certain criteria of blending.

[Teresa]

Ressie,
Question , if you saw a person walking down the street CDer or not with someone following her taking a video would you not take a second look out of curiosity ?

Of course it's all to do with blending , I call it integrating because I converse with people as well . The lesson I've learned is stop looking for a reaction , if you don't look for one then you you won't get one . The other point is people may take a second look because they like your outfit , reactions aren't always bad .

[Ressie]

Cams don't have to be visible now days. Yes you can stop looking for a reaction that's good.

One place I see problems with acceptance is when someone decides to transition at their job. I personally know a couple of transwomen that are having major problems at work.

[Barbara Jo]

"Now.. as apposed to when exactly?

There was a time, not too ago when a male cross dressing in public was illegal in most places in the US.. It's no longer illegal but, IMO, the public's attitude of male cross dresser has no really changed that much,
The general public still views a male cross dresser as just a gay man... or some other sort of a male pervert. .

Its nolonger being illegal has helped a bit, but not that much.

[Aunt Kelly]

"Now.. as apposed to when exactly?

There was a time, not too ago when a male cross dressing in public was illegal in most places in the US.. It's no longer illegal but, IMO, the public's attitude of male cross dresser has no really changed that much,
The general public still views a male cross dresser as just a gay man... or some other sort of pervert...

No, it does not. The actual percentage of the population in a given area who think that way will vary, but it is false to suggest that everyone does. And I am here to tell you that in the areas I frequent, acceptance is the predominant attitude. There are always the smirkers and scowlers, but they are a small minority. Many more are initially wary, but will reveal that they are decent human beings as soon as they realize this TG person is just another decent human being. And some, bless their hearts, go out of their way to interact positively.
Yes, I live in a large metropolitan community and enjoy the existence of a more progressive populace, but still, Houston is not NYC or San Francisco, where there would be no gapers at all. And I could drive 90 miles east and have a rather different experience, but even then, it would not be what some here seem to think it is.
One more thing to consider... I am one transsexual in a city of 6.5 million people, but every person whom I can take from wary to at least comfortable makes my world that tiny bit better. And I don't even bake.

[Pumped]

Cams don't have to be visible now days. Yes you can stop looking for a reaction that's good.

One place I see problems with acceptance is when someone decides to transition at their job. I personally know a couple of transwomen that are having major problems at work.

I don't have any thoughts of transitioning, but If I were to start wearing high heels and skirts to work I an certain I would be looking for a new job shortly. I might not get fired because of it, but they would find some issue to use as an excuse.

I do believe that in general the public is more accepting, or at least tolerant, but there still is a few radical conservative males that find anyone that does not fit the typical macho male mold an enemy. I work with a few guys and the mention of gays just gets them going. Those that are out, be careful out there!

[AllieSF]

We all have individual experiences about real world people accepting, sometimes tolerating others dressed as the opposite of their birth gender. The looks and thoughts when someone sees us are the same whether CD, NB or TS, because they are only looking at a stranger and making their own decisions about who we are. I have been out hundreds of times and am now full time. My experiences are in San Francisco and the suburbs, Sacramento, the State's capital, Monterey and Carmel, California, Detroit, Michigan to the Detroit Institute of Art and a couple to LGBT friendly bars, Las Vegas, traveling en femme, and Kansas City to attend a wedding where I spent the whole time shopping, drinking and eating, plus attending the wedding, and including the air flights en femme. In those locations I have never, NEVER, have any negative experience.

I have read many posts from members all over our great Nation, Canada and the UK and EU, who have gone out during the day and night to "T" friendly venues and just out in the real world for shopping, coffee, dining or drinks or whatever ales there is to do, which is a lot, and "almost" all had a great time and had no negative experiences. Yes, a few have had some issues, most minor, but just a few. These members here have done this in large metropolitan areas and small rural areas in some of the traditional stereotypical very conservative areas.

So, first, if you want you can find safe areas everywhere to go out, hopefully one can find a sidekick/partner/friend or acquaintance to go out with to enjoy the sites. Second, the idea that the real world is mostly made up of haters and those that would do us harm is negative fantasy fears and should be discarded. Third, the majority of our population have some knowledge that transgender (umbrella term) people exist and do go out everywhere. Most do not really care. Yes, some may snicker and even make sarcastic comments occasionally. Last, acceptance may be hard for a lot of people, so they probably tolerate all of us, whether they understand us or not. We are different and they see that most of the time. However, they have so many other things in their own minds and activities, including the reasons they may be someplace where they see us. So, they see us, may think about what they saw, may stare to get a better look, comment to someone and then they move on and forget about us. If you interact with them in any way in a nice way you will see they really do not care and most times they will be friendly back to you. Go to the rough side of town and that may not be the case. However, most towns' rough sides are small compared to the whole.

I ask all those that state that the majority of real world people do not like us to please provide some solid proof that it truly is that way. Do each of you get out a lot, or just once in a while when the stars align and the SO or work provides you with the opportunity? Are the people who go out and always describe there good times wrong or not telling the truth? I would like to better understand why you think the way you do and how do you back up your claims. Thanks in advance if you can help me.