LGBT question, Job applying

[Eva Skarlatova]

So, being in between the jobs recently and applying for bunch of positions, there is almost always a question: Are you a LGBT person? Options: Yes, No, I prefer not to answer. Please share your toughts: Why they need that information? Do you think that answering "Yes", would affect my application negatively? The third option is stupid and the same as answering Yes.Would you share your experience please? As a whole I feel myself embarrassed and confused. It seems that they would not assess my skills and knowledge but my sexuality!

[Princess Chantal]

Perhaps the company is looking for some diversity within their company and may be a positive factor card to stack into your playing hand.

[Tracii G]

Answering yes makes you a liability to their business IMO because you may possible cause legal issues with them.
If they view you as a gay or trans activist that may hurt your chances of employment with them.
Is it right they ask all these questions you may ask sure if they want to know but you can choose not to answer on the grounds that its too personal.
Princess Chantal has a good point too and thats a possibility as well.

PS this is just my opinion because activist type do cause problems in the work place.
If some don't agree thats fine I'm just giving you the honest truth.

[Robertacd]

Wow things certainly have changed since the last time I was job hunting 30 years ago...

Back then it was still somewhat common to be asked your race on job applications. Probably for all the same reasons Chantel and Tracii mentioned above.

This to shall pass...

But in the meantime I would check the box that fits. If you are out then answer yes, if not then no.

[robbieatbest]

yes if you are "out" and would like to go to work dressed then it would be best to say so. Do some background checking of the prospective employer they may well be wanting to increase the diversity of their workforce. In that case they would expect you to be dressed as a woman if they invite you for interview. Good luck job hunting.
Cheers
Robbie

[Micki_Finn]

In many places here in the United States that would be illegal to ask an applicant. I’m surprised it flys in Canada.

[Beverley Sims]

I would pass on both questions and if asked why I would ask why? right back.

If I got a satisfactory answer I may then discuss it, to my advantage of course.

[Stephanie47]

Micki is spot on. I noticed you're in Canada. I do not know Canadian law. In the United States according to the EEOC (Equal Employment Opportunity Commission) it is illegal to ask on a job application or in an interview a prospective employee or employee:

Race, Color or National Origin
Religion
Sex, Gender Identity, or Sexual Orientation
Pregnancy Status
Disability
Age or Genetic Information
Citizenship
Marital Status Or Number of Children

As pertains to the United States one may research which and why some questions are excluded. I don't know the law in Canada, but, in the USA that question should not be asked.

[gailprice]

I am surprised this is a question on a job app. It would make me suspicious. However this maybe a case of positive discrimination. They may want to encourage LGBT to apply for positions in their organisations. Most likely they have already LGBT active in their employment.
You may want to turn up for the interview in a nice frock at least their won't be any surprises.

I would tick the box. To worry that they may think of you as a trouble maker/activist would be very narrow minded of them.

Over to you?

Gail xx

[docrobbysherry]

Why all this guessing? I would simply ask the HR person why they asked that question?:brolleyes:

[Genni]

In most cases the job applicant's answer to that question is not available to the hiring manager. It is the type of thing that HR Departments track to assess their employees' diversity.

[giuseppina]

It doesn't legally fly, Micki. It's bullying. If they ask these questions and don't hire the candidate, they have left themselves open to litigation concerning illegal discrimination in their hiring practices.

Eva, there are legally proscribed questions in a job interview including but not limited to marital status, LGBT status, medical status, what you intend to do with your wages/salary, family status/ambitions, etc. Your provincial/territorial ministry of labour website has the full details.

I've had some of these questions asked in McJob interviews. I haven't had much trouble with professional employment.

If you're asked these types of questions, chances are good that is a reflection of the workplace environment. I found reviews of an employer I was considering complaining about micromanagement of university educated professionals. There were also complaints about the complainers claiming immaturity. I decided not to apply: toxic work environment.

My answer to this type of question would be requesting an explanation of the relevance to the work at hand (there is never anything permissible beyond health and safety considerations) or give them an obviously preposterous answer. If it's an online form, I would leave it totally blank. It might cost you the job, but my view is the disrespect isn't worth it.

I don't buy that line, Chantal. There are legal ways to do that which do not include asking the question.

[Kelly DeWinter]

Leave it blank, In the US LGBTQ discrimination is semi-protected.

[NancySue]

Pass on it! It’s none of their #$&*# business. Look somewhere else.

[Princess Chantal]

For the record, I do not think the question is appropriate to ask on a job application unless it is for a Lgbt based organization like a lgbt resource centre.
If the organization is obviously promoting inclusion and diversity, I may put the volunteering work I have done within the local Lgbt community onto my resume or mention during the interview. I will still leave the question on the application form blank though.

[AllieSF]

If you are not out and do not plan to be out, then answer No and go forward. If you are out, answer yes. If you are not sure, answer No. Then if you change your mind about coming out you can do that under existing laws and how well the company may abide by them, i.e. would they fire you for some other excuse that is hard to prove?

There are many reasons a company may do that, some good and some bad. The reason for you right now is not why. It is how much do you want to work with that company versus the others that may hire you. Income is the most important unless you are independently well off. Good luck.

[Teresa]

Eva,
You don't mention your line of work but these questions may not apply in some occupations but I could see them being relevant in others. I'm not sure how I feel about the question , if I was given the choice of an alternative I would prefer to say I'm TG , the point being the LGBT label is partly based on sexual orientation and not so much gender . We organised a charity event recently and chose to use the TG banner rather than the LGBT one .

I feel Micki answers the question correctly but if its' a genuine question in support of the community because they have an open policy is it a bad thing ?

[Vickie_CDTV]

Personally, as a business owner, I couldn't fathom asking a random stranger such a deeply personal question, much less a job applicant.

They may be after "diversity certificates" from outside organizations that come in and check how many "diversity" employees they have and give them a certification they can use to solicit business and in some cases get advantages over "non diversity" businesses (and of course engage in corporate virtue signaling.) That, or they are being shaken down by the government or some organization for not having enough "diversity" employees. I know this is very cynical, but I believe in merit, as an employer or employee. I want the best person for the job. I want to be hired for my skills, not because I tick some checkbox on an application.

[AllieSF]

You don't mention your line of work but these questions may not apply in some occupations but I could see them being relevant in others.

Teresa, please explain how one's gender orientation, that is legally protected (though difficult to enforce or prove wrong sometimes) can be relevant sometimes? That is the poor excuse employers and others use to discriminate against race, religion, ethnicity and others.

[Gillian Gigs]

In many places here in the United States that would be illegal to ask an applicant. I’m surprised it flys in Canada.

That question has no right to be asked. That is an infringement of your rights in Canada.

[RADER]

Maybe they are worried you might drive up the health insurance. LOL
They have no business asking such questions.
rader

[sometimes_miss]

I'm going to jump in here and add that during interviews, there are all sorts of questions that we used to ask which weren't technically illegal to pose to a job applicant, but were asked to allow them to 'give themselves away' about information that we couldn't ask. It's been a while since I was a manager, so maybe others can chime in to this practice if it's still being done. A big one was to just ask what reasons the applicant might have for not being able to come to work. Acceptable answers might of course include death of a family member, illness or injury of same, illness of self, transportation problem which would make it impossible to get to work, and I think you can come up with some others. However, we would get assorted answers which would tell us things that we couldn't have asked about, such as religious reasons, staying home to take care of children/sick relative/friend/pet, or a lost pet. While all these may sound reasonable, to some employers, nothing short of a disabilitating illness or injury is considered acceptable for absence. Other things to be careful of, are information about yourself that they might see as a potential safety or legal issue (that last I think was already mentioned, but bears repeating). Say, sporting a long beard or hair when applying to work in a machine shop where it might get caught in a machine or be a fire hazard in somewhere that has open flames such as a kitchen.
In short, be careful of the information that you volunteer without being directly asked about it.

The only place I even might be thinking that asking the lgbt question could be appropriate, would be in a job where the majority of the clientele IS lgbtq, and in the interview finding out if there was a particular group of clientele that the applicant might be particularly knowledgeable about the customer's problems. Though the applicant would probably volunteer that information in such an environment, anyway, to enhance their own chances of employment; so it might not matter if asked or not.

Plan for questions, and plan your answers ahead of time. This way you're never put 'on the spot' with trying to invent some witty or terrific response.

[RADER]

After reading this Thread, I am so glad that I an retired, and out of the job market. Good luck to all.
Rader

[Cristy2]

I don't understand what are they asking because LGBT covers a huge area when you break it down to nuts bolts and washers. Are they asking are you gay or bi or transgendered?? The question in itself is just way too general to even answer.

[giuseppina]

I've been advised that talking about health problems is not a good idea, Lexi. I am highly disinclined to talk about everything else on your list as well. Reason: it gives the employer grounds, lawful or not, to reject me in favour of another candidate.

Women of childbearing age, whether they have children or not, have this issue thrust upon them. Children mean time not spent at work being productive for the company. It isn't legal, but it is all but impossible to prove to the standard required by a court of law to win a judgement against an employer.

It's my experience that employers will turn an illegal discrimination issue into a legitimate reason (eg. performance or fit issue), true or false, to dismiss an employee legally. The ex-employee then has little practical recourse. Even if they do take legal action, that brands them as a troublemaker that no recruiter will touch.

[docrobbysherry]

Good point, Giuseppina. If they aren't going to hire u or will fire u because of a trans issue? Do u really want to work there anyway? R u that desperate?:eek:

That is why I would ask them why they asked the LGBT question? If their answer isn't Kosher, I'd walk rite out! And, so should u!:thumbsup:

[lingerieLiz]

Over the years I've hired and fired a lot of people. It was part of my job and I supervised others doing the hiring. There is no right answer, but I would error on the side of saying no. It never bothered me one way or the other what was put in there. For the most part companies I was working with didn't have that question on the application and I would have suggested taking it off the application. It is a bomb for both the employer and the applicant. It sets the company for a charge of discrimination. It sets the applicant up for a manager who dislikes LGBTs

The other thing is, I would point out don't push your agenda. Don't wear women's clothes or play into the stereotype movements. I'm not trying to be hard, but if you need a job that is the role you need to play. I was in a different situation, no one hired me because they liked me.
If you have a job you can have fun applying, but when I was young I was fired for interviewing with a competitor. Actually I wasn't, but they didn't care I was at the enemy camp. Best thing that happened to me for years.

[Patience]

Protect your privacy. Lie. You're not under oath and their right to ask this question in an application does not override your right to keep this part of your life to yourself, whatever the reason and whenever you like.

I'm out at work, but I only came out after I got hired. In fact, I felt encouraged to come out because there's an all gender restroom in the facility. Had that not been there, I might have not come out at work at all. I've just been promoted into another department. I'm planning to come to work dressed on Pride weekend, whenever that is. Girl, are they in for a surprise...

If this is a concerning factor and can afford to be choosy (lucky you), you may consider researching your potential employers' LGBTQ friendliness to decide if that's a place where you'd like to work.

[Teresa]

Allie,
If Eva was seeking employement working with people the question may be more relevent than wanting to become a deep sea diver , OK they legally can't stop anyone applying for the latter but the questions don't have the same bearing . Is there no common sense and logic left in this World ?

[Paula DAngelo]

If Eva was seeking employement working with people the question my be more relevent than wanting to become a deep sea diver

I guess I'm living in a world totally different than the one that the above statement would be true in. I can see no legitimate reason why they should be asking for this information.

I currently work in an environment where I have to deal with hundreds of people every day and the fact that I'm transitioning and bi-sexual has no bearing on anything that I'm required to do. All that matters is if I have the needed qualifications for the job and if I am capable of doing the job. In fact the agency I'm employed by has stated that sexual orientation and/or gender identity have no bearing on who they hire or promote, and have protection from harassment for these things in their policies. I also have had offers from other agencies and again my gender identity or sexual orientation had no bearing on whether an employment offer would be made.

As far as the question in the OP unless you are currently known to be in the "LBGT catagory" I would answer no, if I even answered the question at all. You can always bring it up later if there comes a time that it would be appropriate to have the discussion.

[Lisa516]

I would answer no.
There's a growing use of that line of questioning and it's also appearing on some college entrance applications.

Also companies can't "ensure confidentiality and anonymity," Data breach etc, Although Goldman says it removes the data.....

Here's what one company says (Goldman Sachs)


“We ask for this data because we want to keep ourselves accountable,” says Anilu Vazquez-Ubarri, Goldman’s chief diversity officer and global head of talent. In other words, she says, the bank wants to make sure it is not unfairly discriminating against LGBT applicants.

Under Equal Employment Opportunity Commission rules first implemented in 1978, major employers are required to track their job applicants and employees’ nationality, race, and gender (though applicants are free to withhold the information). While the data is not part of hiring decisions, it can be used in employment discrimination cases that arise. The EEOC, however, does not mandate tracking of LGBT status, though it says federal discrimination protections extend to that community—even if the law does not explicitly say so.

But Goldman, whose benefits package covers sex reassignment surgery, decided to start measuring its own LGBT inclusivity roughly a year ago. Its method is similar to that of the commission: First, it asks candidates to self-identify. Then, it removes the data from the resume and interview process. Finally, after the hires have been made, Goldman checks if the proportion of LGBT applicants is reflected in the eventual group hired.

While the bank isn’t seeking to hit a specific target at the moment, it is hoping to increase its percentage of LGBT employees, which it plans to track on a monthly, quarterly, and annual basis.

[andreanna]

Illegal questions! I would not answer them and keep looking elsewheres.

[Eva Skarlatova]

Thanks for all opinions. This gives me the sence that I am not alone thinking that the question is not correct or even illegal. But believe me it is not exclusion, but practice. That's right, in Canada. I am surprized too. Ok, I am knocking on the doors in the financial industry, mostly back office positions. That question is common part of allmost all internet based application questionaries. Frankly, I have never been asked directly, in face to face interview. Just a minutes ago, a large national player, bank asks me: "Do you consider yourself to be a member of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender plus (LGBT+) community?" I still don't believe that they ask trying to reach some diversity. What a pity....

[Jaylyn]

I feel deep down that it is none of their business unless it would affect your work output. I mean I wouldn't want as a business owner of a welding employee wearing hose and heels. First I would ask what your job description would be and do research as to what that entails. Will you have to wear a uniform or is it an office job where you might set all day.
On the the other hand if it doesn't affect your work output then I would think most bosses could care less.
As said here already I haven't seen that on an application in the states here and really surprised also it's on one in Canada but maybe they are having to hire so many LGBT to prevent law suits or something.

[Princess Chantal]

Hmmm the “Big Five” national banks and some credit unions play integral role in the annual Pride events and within the Winnipeg Lgbt community year long.

[Teresa]

Chantal,
I'm with Santander and they have ben supporting the LGBTQ communtiy for some time .

I can't say for certain but I would guess the UK is more supportive than the US but do appreciate legally they do have to have an open policy . That's fine and good but customers , parents etc. aren't so legally bound , they can take their business elsewhere or move their children to another school , hence my reply based on Eva's occupation .

The problem we often face is having 99% support and that 1% dissent carries more weight than the figure suggests . Personally I have no complaints as I've been accepted 100% so far which is very encouraging when I start my art group .

Lisa,
Thanks for taking the trouble to post the policy of Goldman Sachs , in their sector they've put performance before gender . As long as you can take the pressure you will keep your job , gender isn't priority .

[ShelbyDawn]

Questions like that are, by default and by law, optional. You don;t have to answer. The company, at least in the US, legally cannot use that information in making an employment decision. Most likely, they are just gathering general demographic information about who is applying. Corporate America has come a long way in the past 20 years. My previous employer, GM, was consistently recognized for their inclusive culture and had active LGBTQ groups recognized by the company offering support and social interaction opportunities. I had a coworker who transitioned(MTF) and nobody batted an eye. She's been promoted twice since she changed her name, if I'm not mistaken.

Don't answer if you don't want to or just answer No if you still have concerns.

[abby054]

Where I work, a state university, LGBT is now a privileged class. Even ten years ago, who would have thought that would ever happen? Even so, I fly below the radar. It has been observed that a government powerful enough to give you many things is powerful enough to take them all away on a whim or a simple change of leadership.

As for the question, I just leave it blank. These are almost always statistics gathering to impress some Federal bureaucrat who only wants a data file to check some box and who could not care less what the data may reveal. I see it often at the university where I work. We have a Sub-Vice-President who has statistics for three meals a day and twice for afternoon tea. Everything, even the feral cats and the field mice in the Agriculture Buildings, must be reduced to statistics. There is so much data that no army of accountants could possibly look into more than a small fraction of them. Even with our statistics monger in charge, I have never been called out for leaving such a question blank. Often, a blank response will crash the software. This is most often true with SurveyMonkey. At that point, if confronted, I just tell them to fix their software if they want my data. That is the end of it because they never do.

[DeeDeeB]

I would answer it honestly. If they don't want you as an LGBT person, you probably don't want to work for them. I worked for a seriously bigoted company for many years and I don't recommend it. I saw my retirement as independence day.

Dee :fairy1:

[sometimes_miss]

All that matters is if I have the needed qualifications for the job and if I am capable of doing the job.
You might think so. But say, if you were a front line person in a business that dealt primarily with people who are uneasy about folks like you, it might just affect their business. So like someone else said, if you really need a job, sometimes it's better to avoid disclosing anything that might make your potential employer wish to hire someone else.

[foxy bartender]

So
I have a couple of thoughts about this
First, it’s very much illegal to ask this question, just like it’s illegal to ask questions regarding things like age, and religion. You don’t ever have to answer questions like that, and if an employer doesn’t accept your opting out of those questions, you probably don’t want that job.
Also, let’s be real, there are very few jobs in this world, that have anything to do with what genitals you have, and that information is no one’s business but yours, unless you care to share it.
My opinion, if you want to be out at work, then interview that way. Be conservative in your outfit and makeup, but be out. Many employers nowadays, are becoming more progressive, so just be confident, and knock the interview out of the park.
I’ve been going through the same thing right now, as I’m looking for work. I’m very close to getting a new job in a major lingerie store, 100% in my feminine presentation, and also 100% as a husband that’s working on starting a family. Now, that’s all information that I shared as part of the interview, none of it was asked of me. The interviewer only asked questions that pertained to my ability to the job, and nothing about my gender of sexuality, beyond what I volunteered.
Now, it definitely took quite a bit of searching to find this job, but I know there are many more out there.
Good luck to you!!
It’s just like, my opinion man

[MargaretJ]

I flatly refuse to answer these questions, in the past they were usually on a seperate sheet on the application form, and I never filled it in. Now with online applications, and they don't let you proceed till you answer, I always put prefer not to say. As far as I'm concerned, you should be recruiting the best person for the job. If you are looking to recruit to fulfill a "right on" agenda, then that shows you're not looking after the best interests of the company.

[Paula DAngelo]

But say, if you were a front line person in a business that dealt primarily with people who are uneasy about folks like you, it might just affect their business. So like someone else said, if you really need a job, sometimes it's better to avoid disclosing anything that might make your potential employer wish to hire someone else.

So because someone might feel uneasy seeing us we should just roll over and conform to what makes everyone else feel at ease. How well has this worked for other groups? This is the same type of logic used to discriminate against groups in the past. I thought that discrimination was something that was to be avoided, not encouraged. I didn't realize we were living in the 50's again.

[Maid_Marion]

There is the culture of customers and the culture of the business. It is entirely possible for a company to be LGBTQ friendly even though the customers are not. You should at least try to work for a company with a similar set of values, even if you are stuck in area of business where you are always going to find hostile customers.

[Stephanie47]

What Lisa indicated (#31) and others according to the EEOC these tracking questions are not to be used in the hiring process. They can be tabulated post hiring. I would think before even looking for a job the applicant would do a cursory check of the firm. There is a debate whether or not transgender men and women are protected under federal statutes. Check with the vice president! And, in many states there is protection for transgender men and women. In states that do not recognize any rights for transgender men and women, and, the state allows for firing for no cause, then check out the firm before applying.

[abby054]

...sometimes it's better to avoid disclosing anything that might make your potential employer wish to hire someone else.

Well said! If there are many applicants, managers will often first find easy ways to reduce the list. For good or ill, I have seen the laziness that goes with the territory on hiring committees. Using answers to such questions is one way to cut the hiring task down to size. It is not good or fair or right, but it does happen. Proving individual acts in such cases is difficult even if the law is on your side.

I am particularly sensitive to this in university work. Answering questions that indicate that I am a middle-aged, white male is a quick ticket to the reject pile. I have lost opportunities for that reason alone, my most recent interview, for example. Friends already in the university have told me not to bother applying because I am not in the correct group for the position. That sucks! So I fly beneath the radar when I can. No, it is not good or fair or right. If the choice is keeping my mouth shut and getting a job that I can do well or staying unemployed on principle, that becomes a hard decision.