Being a Man

[Jacqui]

Maybe it's just an accumulation of things I associate with "Being a Man" that have driven me to wanting to be a woman. After reading kathy GG's thread, "Taking For Granted My Gender/Sex", I thought of how I feel about my gender.

Feel free to add your own thoughts, and GG's, let's here what it really feels like "Being a Woman."

To me, "Being a Man" means (not necessarily in order):

Always having to take out the garbage.

Being the one to change a flat tire (especially when it's raining and you're in danger of getting hit by a Mack Truck).

Having to deal with auto mechanics because they always try to connive women.

Making the reservations at restaurants, hotels, and car rentals and then arguing with everyone because nobody gets it right.

Negotiating prices, especially for cars.

Not having the opportunity to dress in comfort, show some skin, wear exciting styles and colors (e.g. having to wear long sleeve shirts and ties in summer)

Knowing that there is no option not to work.

Always being asked to do the "heavy work." (Maybe I would rather sew a button than move the 350 lb 36" TV set to see if the cable's loose).

Feeling guilty about crying at a sad movie :cry: or listening to a eulogy :cry: :cry:

Trying not to show fear when I'm scared sh*t (sure, I'll get the snake out of your sleeping bag!)

Not being able to use makeup and other "enhancers" to make you feel younger and more attractive.

I can go on, but tomorrow is garbage pickup. Gotta take it out!

Jacqui

[Yes I am]

As a male, by and large, I am expected to do all of the pursuing in a romantic relationship.

[Stacie Stockman]

Im going to take some flame for this but how about:

Getting the check for everything!

[Billijo49504]

:) As a man, I get a smaller half of the closet. But as a CD, I get my share, the extra is my gurlie clothes.:)

[Deborah]

Having to take charge in the bedroom when i'd rather lay back and let someone have their way with me. ;)

[ReginaK]

Always having to make the first move. Whether it's the first kiss, the first date, the first dance, the first time in bed, etc.

[Cathy Anderson]

An interesting idea, Jacqui.

I wonder if the problem is not so much that being a man is bad, but that we (CDs, TGs) tend to have a *faulty or limited image* of what it is to be a man (perhaps due to limited role models in our life). So as an exercise let me see if I can think of how each of these could be better were one to have a different, broader and more positive image of what being a man can be:

> Always having to take out the garbage.

Inventiveness, mechanical aptitude: put the trash can on wheels or a dolly, and ask the wife to take it out now and then.

> Being the one to change a flat tire (especially when it's raining
> and you're in danger of getting hit by a Mack Truck).

Prudence and foresight: keep flares and a raincoat in the trunk. Check the tread wear once a month to avoid getting flats.

> Having to deal with auto mechanics because they always try to
> connive women.

Male bonding: find a mechanic you like and trust.
Magnanimity: find a mechanic to whom you like to steer some business now and then.

> Making the reservations at restaurants, hotels, and car rentals
> and then arguing with everyone because nobody gets it right.

Judge character: don't do business with fly-by-night companies.
See "Magnanimity" above.

> Negotiating prices, especially for cars.

Assertiveness: Buy one of those magazines/manual at a newsstand that tell you how to price a car. Offer the recommended price, plus a fair profit to the dealer. If they don't accept, walk away.

> Not having the opportunity to dress in comfort, show some skin, wear
> exciting styles and colors

But some Italian-designed men clothing.

> Knowing that there is no option not to work.

(If you mean supporting your wife/family - I'll have to think about this one.)

> Always being asked to do the "heavy work."

Delegation: pay someone else.
Cleverness: think before acting; figure out a way to solve the problem w/o heavy work.

> Feeling guilty about crying at a sad movie :cry:
> or listening to a eulogy :cry: :cry:

Who said men can't cry? Who places this limitation on you besides yourself?

> Trying not to show fear when I'm scared sh*t (sure, I'll get the snake
> out of your sleeping bag!)

Courage isn't lack of fear. It's acting despite the fear. In any case, use *anger* in those situations for which it was intended. ("I'll kick you b*tt you f**king snake!!"). Or, better still, find your "inner Tarzan": explain to the snake that he doesn't belong there.

> Not being able to use makeup and other "enhancers" to make you
> feel younger and more attractive.

There are products for men--moisturizers, lib balm, hair dye.

> Having to take charge in the bedroom when I'd rather

Buy the modern, illustrated "Kama Sutra" and suggest to the wife you try some of the more interesting positions ;)

Cathy

[kittypw GG]

Maybe it's just an accumulation of things I associate with "Being a Man" that have driven me to wanting to be a woman. After reading kathy GG's thread, "Taking For Granted My Gender/Sex", I thought of how I feel about my gender.

Feel free to add your own thoughts, and GG's, let's here what it really feels like "Being a Woman."

To me, "Being a Man" means (not necessarily in order):

Always having to take out the garbage.

Being the one to change a flat tire (especially when it's raining and you're in danger of getting hit by a Mack Truck).

Having to deal with auto mechanics because they always try to connive women.

Making the reservations at restaurants, hotels, and car rentals and then arguing with everyone because nobody gets it right.

Negotiating prices, especially for cars.

Not having the opportunity to dress in comfort, show some skin, wear exciting styles and colors (e.g. having to wear long sleeve shirts and ties in summer)

Knowing that there is no option not to work.

Always being asked to do the "heavy work." (Maybe I would rather sew a button than move the 350 lb 36" TV set to see if the cable's loose).

Feeling guilty about crying at a sad movie :cry: or listening to a eulogy :cry: :cry:

Trying not to show fear when I'm scared sh*t (sure, I'll get the snake out of your sleeping bag!)

Not being able to use makeup and other "enhancers" to make you feel younger and more attractive.

I can go on, but tomorrow is garbage pickup. Gotta take it out!

Jacqui

Wecome to my world Jacqui,
I was a single parent for a lot of years (mostly by choice, I was just too busy to get serious about a relationship)
Everything you said could apply to my feelings (except for the suit and tie)
I was too broke while I was putting myself through college to afford makeup or sexy clothes or lingere. Maybe it's just that it sucks to shoulder all of the burdens and you see that the grass is greener on the other side.
Maybe that is why I am totally not against crossdressing, I can understand and appreciate why someone would want to dump the responsibility and just pamper themselves.
I'm still the one who does the negoations for the cars I learned early how they try to con women into paying top dollar and I have gotten quite good at getting the price that I want. Kitty

[kathy gg]

You wrote:

Maybe it's just an accumulation of things I associate with "Being a Man" that have driven me to wanting to be a woman. After reading kathy GG's thread, "Taking For Granted My Gender/Sex", I thought of how I feel about my gender.

Feel free to add your own thoughts, and GG's, let's here what it really feels like "Being a Woman."
_________________________________

I have to agree alot with what Cathy wrote. Jacqi so many of the things you write about sound like you have limited yourself, or have chosen to uphold the values of other people when it comes to your own self. In other words, you are taking the path that people have told you to take. You have made choices in life that cement that outdated definition of "man-hood".

Maybe you were raised in a home with scrict limitations.

I am bummed that you have felt so restricted in your life.

If it is any consoluation I think that limitations are slowly changing.

People in the medical and science world have some level of understanding regarding childrens upbrings. Dr's. who see what stifleing of male emotion do and such are not repeating this cycles in their advice. In the baby book we have it encourages parents to let little boys express and show emotion and cry. It encourges parents to not try to stop their little boys from playing with dolls or other things which have been viewed as "women's" work. The book emphasizes the importance of raising gentle and loving boys who are able to show emotion. Those same gentle boys will be excellent leaders or our world and make the better parents and better partners to their spouses.

I see that in our play groups and with freinds.

Yes there will always be the parents who makes a huge big deal if her son wants to wear something pink or purple. There will always be close-minded narrow minded people who are bullies and jerks and think that "boys dont cry" and all that is going to make a stronger person. I think of course that is BS because if more men were able to express their feelings and were encouraged to talk about how they felt there probably would be way less confusion, guilt, and shame in all areas of life.

I could go on this rant about how media and television is constanly giving us conflicting message about "how" we should be. Not just guys, but women as well. I mean pick up any young en's magazine and it is full on contradiction ...same with any young womens mag as well. Celebrating real-life hereos on one page and on the next telling you how to get your co-woker to sleep with you.

But this is why being a good role-model for diversity is important. SHowing your children {if you have any} that men can show emotion and also be strong.

I want the gender lines to blur and get fuzzy. I don't want my daughter to think her worth is only about her looks. I want my nephew to be able to express himself with words and not his fist. These changes will happen. It starts by parents not just complaining what is wrong about their gender, but doing something about it.

Anyway.....I am not going to further help put all atributes about "female-ness" in a box.

So, to answer your question:
What it feels like to be a woman? It feels like being a compassionate, empathetic human being. That is something we could all be a little more like.

[ChristineRenee]

The peer pressure to be "one of the boys" all the time

Having to wear boring "man" clothes...and when really dressed up..especially a TIE!:mad:

Not showing emotions outwardly...especially any feminine type...and always giving the appearance of being totally "in control" at all times.

Being expected to like...and be good at...sports...even if I'm not

Always being expected to use my masculine "strength" to open jars, move heavy furniture or equipment etc. Mr. Manuel Labor at your beck and call!:mad:

Just a few for now...more later as I come up with them.

[kittypw GG]

PS Jacqui,
That was when I was en mano mode. Now I'm back to my feme self. Kitty

[kittypw GG]

You wrote:


People in the medical and science world have some level of understanding regarding childrens upbrings. Dr's. who see what stifleing of male emotion do and such are not repeating this cycles in their advice. In the baby book we have it encourages parents to let little boys express and show emotion and cry. It encourges parents to not try to stop their little boys from playing with dolls or other things which have been viewed as "women's" work. The book emphasizes the importance of raising gentle and loving boys who are able to show emotion. Those same gentle boys will be excellent leaders or our world and make the better parents and better partners to their spouses.

I see that in our play groups and with freinds.

Yes there will always be the parents who makes a huge big deal if her son wants to wear something pink or purple. There will always be close-minded narrow minded people who are bullies and jerks and think that "boys dont cry" and all that is going to make a stronger person. I think of course that is BS because if more men were able to express their feelings and were encouraged to talk about how they felt there probably would be way less confusion, guilt, and shame in all areas of life.

I could go on this rant about how media and television is constanly giving us conflicting message about "how" we should be. Not just guys, but women as well. I mean pick up any young en's magazine and it is full on contradiction ...same with any young womens mag as well. Celebrating real-life hereos on one page and on the next telling you how to get your co-woker to sleep with you.

But this is why being a good role-model for diversity is important. SHowing your children {if you have any} that men can show emotion and also be strong.

I want the gender lines to blur and get fuzzy. I don't want my daughter to think her worth is only about her looks. I want my nephew to be able to express himself with words and not his fist. These changes will happen. It starts by parents not just complaining what is wrong about their gender, but doing something about it.

So, to answer your question:
What it feels like to be a woman? It feels like being a compassionate, empathetic human being. That is something we could all be a little more like.

Kathy,
I think this is one of the most important gifts that parents can give their children. I applied this principle to the raising of my son. More parents need to adapt this kind of thinking. And I would extend this to grandparents who are huge influences on children.

I have to say that I was raising my son in the early 80's and it caused him some distress because he was singeled out at times and accused of being gay. If all kids were raised this way then this would decrese but lets face it kids are cruel sometimes. He has since thanked me for his feminist view on things but I think that it was hard when he was growing up because it was an unpopular child rearing technique at the time. He has a very sensitive and creative side (check out his poetry in the lounge) which he would not have developed if he would have been raised to only be involved in the things that were strictly thought of as male.

Kathy as always you rule as the ultimate empress of all things feminine :notworthy: Kitty

[Aileen]

Well, I'm all alone and I prefer it that way. A lot of these things don't apply to me, because I don't have a girlfriend to put the pressure on me to do these things.


Always having to take out the garbage.

>Can't argue with that. I don't clean, usually, and my place is a mess. Taking out the trash is one of the few things I do around the house.

Being the one to change a flat tire (especially when it's raining and you're in danger of getting hit by a Mack Truck).

>I find that I can usually drive ( slowly ) to a Firestone store and they will do it for me. I have changed a tire by myself, and I don't like doing it.

Having to deal with auto mechanics because they always try to connive women.

>Well, they probably connive me, as well. I find that if I just go to the dealership they give me a decent deal, because they're too busy to bother with cheating me.

Making the reservations at restaurants, hotels, and car rentals and then arguing with everyone because nobody gets it right.

>I make the reservations, but I don't have to argue with anyone.

Negotiating prices, especially for cars.

>I don't regotiate. Whatever they want to charge me is fine.

Not having the opportunity to dress in comfort, show some skin, wear exciting styles and colors (e.g. having to wear long sleeve shirts and ties in summer)

>Yes, being a CDer I would love to wear a shiny dress to work, but otherwise in my male life I have no desire to wear exciting styles and colors. I do have some male silk shirts I like to wear to work, from WinterSilks.com. They feel great.

Knowing that there is no option not to work.

>Can't argue with that. But there are some Mr. Moms out there.

Always being asked to do the "heavy work." (Maybe I would rather sew a button than move the 350 lb 36" TV set to see if the cable's loose).

>The last heavy work I did was to move my new television from the car to my condo. That sucker was heavy. Other than that, I will always hire movers to move everything.

Feeling guilty about crying at a sad movie or listening to a eulogy

>I go to movies alone. I cry if I feel like crying.

Trying not to show fear when I'm scared sh*t (sure, I'll get the snake out of your sleeping bag!)

>I don't go camping. I am pretty fearful, and I don't usually put myself in those types of situations. I don't even like the Tower of Terror at DisneyWorld.

Not being able to use makeup and other "enhancers" to make you feel younger and more attractive.

>Yeah, I guess I'm pretty well stuck with my face. But facelifts are an option for men.

[CaptLex]

Hey, this is very encouraging to me. It seems that I've accomplished a lot of these anyway. Maybe I'm not too far off from being a GM . . .


To me, "Being a Man" means (not necessarily in order):

Always having to take out the garbage. - I do that


Being the one to change a flat tire (especially when it's raining and you're in danger of getting hit by a Mack Truck). - Done that


Having to deal with auto mechanics because they always try to connive women. - Done that too - usually get a good deal


Making the reservations at restaurants, hotels, and car rentals and then arguing with everyone because nobody gets it right. - Do that all the time


Negotiating prices, especially for cars. - Done that


Not having the opportunity to dress in comfort, show some skin, wear exciting styles and colors (e.g. having to wear long sleeve shirts and ties in summer) - Well, to me, male clothing is the most comfortable and exciting, so we won't go there . . .


Knowing that there is no option not to work. - Been working for approximately 30 years and there won't be an end in sight for at least another 30


Always being asked to do the "heavy work." (Maybe I would rather sew a button than move the 350 lb 36" TV set to see if the cable's loose). - Okay, you probably got me there, but when nobody is around to help me, I wish I could do the heavy work myself


Feeling guilty about crying at a sad movie :cry: or listening to a eulogy :cry: :cry: - Um, no comment


Trying not to show fear when I'm scared sh*t (sure, I'll get the snake out of your sleeping bag!) - And no comment on this one either


Not being able to use makeup and other "enhancers" to make you feel younger and more attractive. - Well, I could use them, but it defeats my purpose

Ditto for, as others mentioned, picking up the check and taking charge in the bedroom (okay, I'm not complaining about that last one). Like I said, very encouraging . . . I think I'm on my way. :D

P.S. Not to minimize your feelings, Jacqui, I think I'm just jealous. ;)

[Annaliese]

All the above and more, do most of the cooking not because I have to, because I like to, cleening the tolet not because I have to, it need cleening. Making the bed in the morning because my wife gose to work before me. Sewing a button on because it my shirt.

My wife when we got married would get mad if the tolet seat was up not because she had to put it down, but because of the splash, she would ask can't you sit to pee my answer was thats how men do it, when I started to cleen the tolet I understood why I need to sit to pee, and I have now for over 30 years. I know this should have been a thread of it own.

Anna

[Wendy me]

for me ?? simple being a man is doing all them "him things" and still being able to accpte that i have this wonderful part of me that i can express and enjoy.... that is to say i have truly become happy just being me....

[Bonnie D]

Because I am a man I don't mind doing all the male things that are expected of me. I take out the garbage, I do all the heavy things (I do have the muscle for it), I investigate all the noises in the house (I have the muscle to back up my investigations), change tires (muscle again, particularly to loosen the nuts), kill bugs, fix things around the house, take care of everything outside, take care of emergencies and many more things. However, most of these duties are not day to day things. My wife goes to work every day like I do, we can't run a family on one salary, and then does the everyday things.

I played all the sports when I was growing up and I was good at them. But I've had to hide so much all my life. There is a woman inside me who has always been trying to break out. For example, I am very emotional, I cry when I watch or am involved in both sad or happy events. This is something very difficult to have to hide all the time. I am interested in many things that women are interested in but again I have to keep it hidden. etc ....

If I was a real woman I would want a man to do all the things I do now. Be strong and tough and protective and very male. The only difference is I would want him to be able to show his softer side to me. To be gentle, caring, emotional and relaxed, and not always dominant.

So I don't complain about what I do as a man, I just wish I was a woman, or at the very least, to be able to express my hidden feminine self.

I also know that there are many out there like Lex who are saying, in essence, they would love to be me doing what I do. What am I complaining about? I have it so good, minus the gender confusion.

It would be wonderful if there was such a thing as a mind transfer machine. You get a male and a female who are not the correct gender and are satisfied with the other's appearance and then switch bodies. Much better than surgeries that cannot be completely gender operational. I'm not putting down SRSs, at this stage they're the best we have for now.

Well, I think I've said enough.

Bonnie

[tamyracd]

I agree with Bonnie...i don't mind at all to all the male things that's required i guess i just want my cake and to eat it too...i just wish i could wear what i wanted when i wanted is that to much to ask?? *s*

[Charlene Marie]

Jacqui. You covered it all Hon LOL great thread. Also, Real men have the ability to express their feminine side, their not ashamned of it or try to hide it.
I'm so sick of the Heman Macho crap we are bombed with everyday I could puke. So next time you take out the trash, do it in your 4" pumps, and if anyone doesnt like it they can pound sand.

[Joy Carter]

I respect all of your views that has been expressed here I don't limit myself to any one role. I helped dish out portions at the last church dinner something that the women usualy do. I help with the laundry and repair the machines as well. My children when they were growing up didn't have a problem comming to dad when they needed comfort. But I'm the first one to speak up when somthing is not right. A child has to be raised with the knowledge that they may at some time in his/her life they may need to deffend them selves at all costs. Lying down and accepting what may come will only cause more pain and suffering. I'm all for peace and love but someone needs to be able to deffend thouse ideas.

[EricaCD]

I'm coming to this late, but I have to say that I have a totally different idea of what being a man means. GGs in the group, I emphatically do NOT mean to suggest, by giving the list below, that society does/should expect less of a woman. But to me, being a man means:

1. First and foremost, doing everything in your power, including working yourself into an early grave if necessary, to provide a decent standard of living and a decent household to your wife and children.

2. A less important goal, but one that trumps the first one if the call comes, is to offer your service, and if necessary your life, in defense of your country.

3. Once your family is provided for, to do whatever is in your power to make your community and world a better place - not out of a sense of noblesse oblige, but rather from an understanding that your family's fortune derives in large measure from the good deeds of others and you need to cover the tab.

4. To accomplish all of the foregoing with a sense of decency, humility and honesty.

Fixing cars, moving heavy loads and killing spiders all fit nicely into the above categories.

I love wearing women's clothes. I would like to be able to switch to a more feminine voice. I wish to hell I could walk in heels more smoothly. It would be nice to be a passable height. But in my mind the detours of crossdressing just make it that much more enjoyable when I switch off my en femme mode and resume being a man.

Flame away if I have offended. I promise it was not intentional.

Erica

[GypsyKaren]

All that being a man ever meant to me was trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I finally gave up because my thumbs got sore, and now I'm happy.

Karen

[HaleyPink2000]

That is so funny! I know the feeling big time. I've been into two marriages. This one 25 years the first 12 years with 2 kids. I tell ya I have had my fingers in every square hole in this world. Bought the ticket and got the Tee Shirt So to speak! LOLOL:)


All that being a man ever meant to me was trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I finally gave up because my thumbs got sore, and now I'm happy.

Karen

[Jacqui]

Cathy A: You certainly are one sexy pragmatist! You make it sound so easy. However, I'm tired of it. I want to be a woman. Teach me how and I will take out your garbage whenever you want!

kittypw: "Wecome to my world Jacqui,
Maybe it's just that it sucks to shoulder all of the burdens and you see that the grass is greener on the other side."

Kitty, I admire and respect you for overcoming your own personal obstacles and becoming the woman that you are.
Thanks for welcoming me to your world. Now, can I stay there? Please!

kathy gg: "I want the gender lines to blur and get fuzzy. I don't want my daughter to think her worth is only about her looks. I want my nephew to be able to express himself with words and not his fist. These changes will happen. It starts by parents not just complaining what is wrong about their gender, but doing something about it."

kathy, your post that I mentioned got me to thinking. I love your input to this forum. On this point, I would respectfully disagree, however, I do respect your viewpoint.
My opinion is that there are and always will be differences between Male and Female. I don't look forward to a time when we will all be a homogenous goo. I don't deny that each gender can learn from the other and picking up some positives from each wouldn't be a bad idea. But without stereotypical, physical and mental differences, there would be no Yin and no Yang. I think it would be the end of Romance..

kitty: "PS Jacqui,
That was when I was en mano mode. Now I'm back to my feme self. Kitty"

I'm sure it would be interesting to meet you en femme while you're en mano!

CaptLex: "
Hey, this is very encouraging to me. It seems that I've accomplished a lot of these anyway. Maybe I'm not too far off from being a GM . . ."

Lex, I'm glad I could help. Now, can you help me? Wanna trade?

Bonnie: "It would be wonderful if there was such a thing as a mind transfer machine. You get a male and a female who are not the correct gender and are satisfied with the other's appearance and then switch bodies."

Yeah! Sign me up! I just checked ebay...

[JoannaDees]

Maybe it's just an accumulation of things I associate with "Being a Man" that have driven me to wanting to be a woman. After reading kathy GG's thread, "Taking For Granted My Gender/Sex", I thought of how I feel about my gender.

Feel free to add your own thoughts, and GG's, let's here what it really feels like "Being a Woman."

To me, "Being a Man" means (not necessarily in order):

Always having to take out the garbage.

She always cleaned the bathrooms, fair trade in my book!


Being the one to change a flat tire (especially when it's raining and you're in danger of getting hit by a Mack Truck).!

Somebody has to, and I can. If it's a dangerous place, AAA.


Having to deal with auto mechanics because they always try to connive women.!

They try to connive everybody, and being a man doesn't change that. I know nothing about cars, don't care to, won't ever, I take it to the dealership.


Making the reservations at restaurants, hotels, and car rentals and then arguing with everyone because nobody gets it right.!

Women can do that. But we do have to teach our girls to be assertive in all aspects of life.


Negotiating prices, especially for cars.!

I could never do that until recently. Again, we must teach our girls assertiveness is good.


Not having the opportunity to dress in comfort, show some skin, wear exciting styles and colors (e.g. having to wear long sleeve shirts and ties in summer)!

Yes, this is true. But then, I don't wear layers of clothes and neck choking devices. Never again!


Knowing that there is no option not to work.!

Everybody works, even the stay at home spouse. OMG! Never say that to your spouse, she doesn't work, you'll get fiery eyes burning you up!


Always being asked to do the "heavy work." (Maybe I would rather sew a button than move the 350 lb 36" TV set to see if the cable's loose).!

The requirements simply fit the ability. She moves everything she can, I'm sure.


Feeling guilty about crying at a sad movie :cry: or listening to a eulogy :cry: :cry: !

Self imposed.


Trying not to show fear when I'm scared sh*t (sure, I'll get the snake out of your sleeping bag!)!

Fear is the fuel for greatness.


Not being able to use makeup and other "enhancers" to make you feel younger and more attractive.!

Yes, there is no equivalent to makeup, and there is high criticism if a man does use makeup ... rock stars aside.


I can go on, but tomorrow is garbage pickup. Gotta take it out!

And the toilets need cleaning too!

In ending, I guess I responded to this because all these points seemed frivolous. One of the GG's said it best, it's a matter of openness, empathy and maturity. Many women have it, so many men don't. So we teach our boys this. And what better way than by example.

[Jacqui]

Yes I Am,Billyjo, Deborah, ReginaK, Christine Renee, thanks for adding to the list.

Charlene Marie: "So next time you take out the trash, do it in your 4" pumps, and if anyone doesnt like it they can pound sand.".....You are my Inspiration!

Stacie: "I'm going to take some flame for this but how about: Getting the check for everything!"

Aileen, Anna Leavitt, Wendy Me, tammyracd, Haley Pink, Joy Carter : You girls all seem happy being who you are... and that makes me happy! Thanks, Jacqui

GypsyKaren: "All that being a man ever meant to me was trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I finally gave up because my thumbs got sore, and now I'm happy."
I hope when the day comes that I give up I'll be as happy as you!

EricaCd: Erica, you might have come late, but your thoughts, to me, best express my thoughts on this subject:

"1. First and foremost, doing everything in your power, including working yourself into an early grave if necessary, to provide a decent standard of living and a decent household to your wife and children.

2. A less important goal, but one that trumps the first one if the call comes, is to offer your service, and if necessary your life, in defense of your country.

3. Once your family is provided for, to do whatever is in your power to make your community and world a better place - not out of a sense of noblesse oblige, but rather from an understanding that your family's fortune derives in large measure from the good deeds of others and you need to cover the tab.

4. To accomplish all of the foregoing with a sense of decency, humility and honesty.

Fixing cars, moving heavy loads and killing spiders all fit nicely into the above categories."

Very well put!

Jacqui

[Joy Carter]

You sead what Iwas :D :D thinkin!