What if people think you're gay? OH MY!?

[docrobbysherry]

I've read many posts from dressers who were concerned because uninformed muggles often think if we dress like women, we must be gay or bi?:doh:

Why does that bother u? I never worried if anyone thot I was gay in male mode. So, why should it upset me if I'm dressed? What's the difference? Tomahto, tomayto? Explain, please!:straightface:

[Rogina B]

Gay is good ! It is a "settled term" unlike "transgender"...

[JenniferMBlack]

Then I maybe could get a boyfriend. Oh wait I am bi so does that change things?

[Tracii G]

Doesn't bother me one bit but I am sure the homophobe's have their reasons.

[Micki_Finn]

Then I maybe could get a boyfriend. Oh wait I am bi so does that change things?

Don’t even get me started on the complication of dressing like a woman while trying to catch the eye of a gay man. That one’s a little close to home lol.

[Aunt Kelly]

Ignorance is commonplace. There's a world of important things that people are more ignorant about than the difference between gay and TG. I don't even think about it.

[Robertacd]

I am with you on this one, Doc. In my limited time out dressed, I have found I enjoyed myself a lot more once I stopped caring what people think.

I mean I am already out there, if I have been made, what am I gonna do? Besides who cares what someone I probably will never see again in my life thinks anyway?

[AllieSF]

Sounds the same as those who reject the Transgender umbrella definition, proclaiming loud and clear, "I am not Transgender (TG), I am a Crossdresser (CD)". Makes you wonder if anyone ever reads the sites definitions that they prefer to be used here? Who really cares when most out there in the general public thinks of us as Transsexexual to start with. "What is CD?", they ask.

[Fran-K]

On one level, yeah ... who cares?

But there are a couple of other considerations, I think

- In some parts of the world being gay (or being tagged gay) can be dangerous, either officially or not. So I can understand one's desire not to be seen as gay. Of course, in those same parts of the world, simply crossdressing, being TG or TS, etc, probably all are equally dangerous, so things already are bad. Adding "gay" to the pile doesn't make it much worse :-(

- There are people for whom calling someone gay is a way of insulting them, putting them down. So if they call one of us gay, what they really are doing is just plain insulting us ... you're gay, you're a loser, you're not 'cool', etc, etc. So "fear of being thought of as gay" is "fear of being insulted". Even if I personally don't feel that "gay" is an insult, I might know that the other person meant it as an insult, so I'd take it that way. But if A) if they don't call us gay, they'd call us something else (you have bad fashion sense! ;-) and B) they are not people whose approval I seek anyway, so who cares.

- Many of us cross dress as an expression of what we are. We want the world to think/know/see us as our real self, part (or all) female. So (assuming one is not gay) then being thought of as gay is a mistake, just as calling an mtf ts person a man would be wrong. But the reaction should be to correct and educate, the same as saying "no, 2+2 is 4, not 3" and not something to be feared or worry about.

Fran

[Miss V]

It doesn't bother me, I am bi.

But I don't find it offensive that others don't want to be mistaken for it. Nobody likes being called something they are not, no matter what it is.

[Sara Jessica]

You're freakin' wearing a dress, being perceived as gay is the least of your worries.

You couldn't be more right, Sherry.

I think those who take issue with such perception are those who would take offense to being perceived as gay in any mode of presentation. Add to that a dose of homophobia (thank you Tracii).

This pays no attention to the irrational nature of this perception (thank you Micki), yet perception is reality for most people.

[Teresa]

Sherry,
There is a lot more buried in this question and to me a few unanswered ones .

Lets take my own examples , recently in my shopping thread with my sister in law I felt totally comfortable being out with as Teresa but how did she really feel ? Did it go through her head that some may think she was a lesbian , the answer would be not really true , she was possibly just accepting my as her brother in law but women don't get labelled the same as men .
Being out in a social group doesn't connect the same , we are more likely to be labelled a group of CDers .

Recently I went out with a friend to pick up a Chinese takeaway , she is BI but it didn't feel out of place , we just chatted in the resturant until the meal was ready , I thought I would feel more awkard .
Finally I also went shopping and had coffee with a TS , I had no fear at all that people thought I was gay because she had transitioned .

And yet I still have the underlying fear that people will think I might be gay , so why does it bother me ? I really have to shrug my shoulders and claim I don't truthfully know . The fact is I'm not BI and definitely not gay , my wife use to accuse me of being homophobic , the truth is my brain just doesn't register a male to male relationship no matter how they are dressed .

[DaisyLawrence]

Finally I also went shopping and had coffee with a TS , I had no fear at all that people thought I was gay because she had transitioned .


???? Why on earth would anyone think you were gay for going out with a woman?

- - - Updated - - -


And yet I still have the underlying fear that people will think I might be gay , so why does it bother me ?

Homophobia, no other answer applies.

[NancySue]

Here in the conservative Midwest, there is a lot of ignorance and generalizations about cders. We’re pretty much seen as gay. When I go out, I’m very careful and try hard to avoid being read, especially by rough looking guys. There’s been occasional acts of violence against cders and drag queens. An annual cder fund raiser was recently cancelled because of threats. I’m just speaking for our local. I do worry about this, police, flat tire, etc. very frustrating.

[Rhonda Jean]

It is weird to me how some of us can be so sensitive (to the point of being combative) about even the suggestion that they might be gay. I think that everyone outside this community and a lot of those within it think any male who wears dresses is gay. I also think there are a lot more of us who have those tendencies than will ever admit it. I repeatedly see the subject twisted around to where if someone is dressed as and appears to be a woman, having sex with a man (or the desire to) is not gay. Kind of reminds me of the T-shirt that says, "I'm not gay but my boyfriend is".

I grew up in a time where calling someone gay was about the worst thing you could say. Although there are areas of serious resistance, by and large it is not that way anymore. Back when I was married, some people who saw me on a regular basis (hairdressers and makeup SA's) were very surprised to find out I was married to a woman. My Merle Norman lady, who I'd known for a couple of years by then, said, "How does that work?". I really didn't know how to answer, as to me it worked just like anybody else's marriage.

I didn't have my first sexual experience with a male (another Tgirl) until I was 50. We were both dressed, never saw each other when we weren't in girl mode. I've had a couple of relationships since. All of them were gay, and I can't for the life of me understand why so many of us on this forum dance around it. I no longer think I'm going to hell for it. There's also the opinion that nobody's sexuality changes, so I must have been gay my whole life and just obscured/denied it. Maybe. If I was, I did an awfully good job of obscuring/denying, because I had no idea. I don't see that it matters.

If you surveyed 100 people and they were totally honest, I bet 99 of them would say crossdressers are gay. Some probably know intellectually that it's not unheard of for a crossdresser to either be straight or to at least survive within a monogamous straight marriage, but their gut feeling is that they're all gay.

[Eemz]

The only time I care what someone thinks of my sexuality is if I'm trying to sleep with them, or vice versa :devil:

----

But on the general topic...I don't think the sort of person who is likely to give you a hard time for being "gay" is too worried about semantics. You're weird, deviant, queer, trans, whatever, close enough, "it's all "gay" to me"


"Ah! Yes indeed good sir, I am wearing a dress, it's nice of you to notice, plus heels & makeup in fact, but that's ok because I actually **don't** sleep with guys!"

"Oh I see! You *don't* sleep with guys. Well silly me, why didn't you say so? That's fine then, my mistake, have a nice day".

[Stephanie47]

As a male growing in the 1950's and 1960's being gay opened a person up to discrimination and physical violence. There was no information available concerning men/boys who enjoyed (maybe not the proper term) or needed to wear women's clothing. Society said males who wore women's clothing were gay. It caused a lot of confusion in a youth going through puberty. So, did it bother me? You bet. It would have meant friend dropping you like a hot potato. Perhaps, your family kicking you out the door. There are laws in place now to project gays/lesbians and transsexuals in many states, but, not all. Many, too many, people still dislike or hate anyone who is not like themselves. As a youth in the 1950's and 1960's you really did not have any way to defend yourself. You may have known you were not gay, but, it was what others may have thought about you. Do you really think there were many girls or young women who would be willing to establish a relationship with you?

The bottom line is you know who you are, but, do the people around you accept your self analysis? In this day and age an adult may be able to defend himself against bias behavior, but, if someone believes you are gay they may act upon the misinformation. One of my friend's grandson bore the brunt of rampant discrimination and worse in high school before he came out as transgender. He was labeled as gay. If you have already made your way in life maybe you can avoid the effects of discrimination. I ask, why are there so many suicides and attempted suicides among the transgender community? Do you think non acceptance has something to do with it?

[LilSissyStevie]

It's not gay if one of you wears a dress...or so I've been told.;)

The ones that give me the giggles are the ones that state that they are NO WAY gay but will readily admit to being bi. But bisexuality is not a sexual orientation unto itself. It simply means that one is both gay and straight, therefor "bi"sexual. If you are bisexual, you're gay - just not exclusively.

I think I'd rather be gay than be AGP if for no other reason than it's easier to explain. I couldn't even explain it to myself for most of my life. Plus AGPs don't have their own TV network (no pun intended. OK, it was!). I was pretty sure I was gay since my teen years. A Psychiatrist even told me when I was 16 that I was a "latent homosexual." The only problem is I don't find dudes sexually or romantically attractive. Most of my life I was confused about my sexuality, now I'm not. Having said that, gay is still better than AGP. The insidious nature of AGP is that it can fool you because it sometimes looks like gayness and/or it can look trans. One could be gay, trans, and AGP but that's not me. I'm just a garden variety AGP.

[Robertacd]

Okay I think I may have asked this before but...

What does AGP stand for?

Besides an Accelerated Graphics Port that was used in computers in the 90's

[char GG]

Robertacd:

AGP stands for "autogynephillia".

[LilSissyStevie]

AGP = Autogynephilia. The best explanation for it that I've come across is Anne Lawrence's book "Men Trapped in Men's Bodies." There are some parts of the theory I don't quite agree with but it's pretty close to what I experience.

[Shelly Preston]

The problem is that even if you tell people you are not gay some will never believe you.

There are so ingrained in the binary belief nothing else matters.


To answer the AGP here is a dictionary definition.

autogynephilia
Noun
The paraphilic tendency of a biological male to be sexually aroused by the thought of becoming a female, sometimes considered a form of gender identity disorder or transvestic fetishism.

[Tracii G]

Here in the conservative Midwest, there is a lot of ignorance and generalizations about cders. We’re pretty much seen as gay. When I go out, I’m very careful and try hard to avoid being read, especially by rough looking guys. There’s been occasional acts of violence against cders and drag queens. An annual cder fund raiser was recently cancelled because of threats. I’m just speaking for our local. I do worry about this, police, flat tire, etc. very frustrating.

When people make that comment the "conservative" mid west that really burns my giblets.
I would guess there are more acts of violence against gay or trans people on the east or west coast than there is in middle America.I would go as far to say people in middle America are more down to earth and accepting of people different from them.
I have been all over this country so thats what I am basing my comments by.

Homophobes are everywhere and they are very ingrained in what some would call "progressive" areas.
There are plenty on this website as well.

[NancySue]

Gee, Tracii, Sorry, I didn’t mean to “burn your giblets”...ouch. I’m sure you’re right. I can only relate to a 25 mile radius of our little town. Believe me...it’s true. 😬

[SuzyZahn]

I`ve never thought of it as that,,i`m `gay`, I`ve always thought they would find out that i was a crossdresser,trans,, besides being happily married and a loving dad. just adds to the confusion.

[Robertacd]

I have to agree Tracii. While the backwoods and small towns are going to be less accepting, that's true everywhere. Midwest cities like Des Moines Iowa are very progressive, not to mention college towns like Ames and Iowa City are just like any other college town.

[Bobbi46]

When word started to get out that I am CD one friend who I went to great pains to explain how and why we tick asked me this very question " are you gay" I replied no I am not I just like to dress in womens clothes he acepted this explanation completely his wife even more so her reply was " you're still a great guy" this is how it should be but if I was confronted with homophobic hate directly at me I would find out who they were, where he/she lived and take them to court! for gender discrimination end of.

[Asew]

This was my wife's biggest issue when she found out, she thought it meant I was gay and I had to keep reassuring her I wasn't. She still worries other's will think I am gay due to my dressing questioning our relationship.

I don't care what they think.

[Teresa]

Stevie,
That is a very odd comparison you make , personally I prefer it the other way round AGP is part of what makes me tick , I've now come to terms with it but I will say you have some odd assumptions and conclusions about it . Besides to really put the spanner in the works a gay person could also have AGP .

No matter how you dress if you have a relationship with another guy it is gay .

Rhonda ,
I'm not sure if I agree with your statistics , I honestly don't think it crosses their minds in many cases anymore , I feel they relate it more to wanting to transition .

[Emily Myers]

Some of us are Gay. My sexuality and gender Identity are two seperate things, I love Men, and Identify as one, but I also love femininity.

[sometimes_miss]

The problem is that even if you tell people you are not gay some will never believe you. There are so ingrained in the binary belief nothing else matters.
The problem with being perceived as gay, is that it pretty much eliminates a very large percentage of the female population from considering you a potential mate.

If you're already married or have a GF that knows and accepts your crossdressing, it doesn't matter all that much.

But if you're trying to FIND a mate, ever since the HIV scare, women are especially afraid of a guy who has EVER had gay sex. So making ourselves considered much more likely to have done so, simply gives women another reason to avoid us. All things being equal, it's just so much simpler for them to choose a non-crossdresser to date, especially with the long term potential consequences for her. My own ex wife accused me of marrying her, knowing that I was ruining her life. She said that I had 'stolen her best years', and now it was too late to find another man and start a family. And I think that pretty much would reflect a lot of other women's feelings if they had 'wasted' years trying to 'catch' a suitable man to marry. Despite this being the 21st century and all, many women still work very hard to find a guy and then work very hard to get him to 'commit' his life to her. We are still looked upon as meal tickets, money, shelter, and food providers for a woman who wants those things for herself and her offspring without necessarily having to work for them all by herself. To the vast majority of women, getting married is still the primary goal. Sure, they might want a great career, but by percentage, there are probably very, very few who idealize being single their entire life.

It also can upset the attraction dynamic. Thinking of her date wearing clothing typical of a female, or thinking of him potentially behaving like a female, can easily throw a wrench in her daydreams and fantasies of being romantically involved with him, again eliminating him from consideration. Men in healthcare who are anything other than doctors, dentists or physical therapists, are pretty much automatically assumed to be likely gay by much of the population. Numerous men over the years have asked me when I was going to get 'a real man's job'. Women, OTOH, having had to go to school and know how difficult it can be, aren't as bad, but they still find say, cops and firemen more attractive than a guy who works in fields predominantly occupied by women. Men who are secretaries, administrative assistants, sales folks, clerks, hairdressers, dental hygienists, nurses, servers (especially if the rest at that restaurant are all female), all have to deal with the 'less than masculine' assumption about us, by much of the rest of the world.

So basically what I'm saying, is it's hard enough to find a mate. Why intentionally make it more difficult?

[Rachael Leigh]

Sherry, to be honest that thinking actually helped me overcome any reasons for not going out. When I’m out now knowing
full well I don’t pass, I think some will think I’m either in transition or I’m a fem guy who likes to be girly and then I’m prob
gay. It actually made me at ease thinking that most will then think nothing of my appearance.
So yes it’s all in our heads just get out there ladies

[LilSissyStevie]

Stevie,
That is a very odd comparison you make , personally I prefer it the other way round AGP is part of what makes me tick , I've now come to terms with it but I will say you have some odd assumptions and conclusions about it . Besides to really put the spanner in the works a gay person could also have AGP .

No matter how you dress if you have a relationship with another guy it is gay.

I'm not sure what odd assumptions and conclusions you're referring to but as far as being gay and having AGP, yes it's possible. Despite Dr. Blanchard's typology that divides TSs into "homosexual" and "non homosexual", these are not mutually exclusive categories. Blanchard's own data shows that a significant portion of the "homosexual" TSs have experienced AGP. And a significant portion of the "non homosexual" TSs experienced AGP in ways that can only be described as trivial or vanishingly insignificant. The way I would interpret the data is to say that there are two main clusters: one cluster is mostly exclusively androphilic and doesn't experience AGP and one cluster that is mostly not exclusively androphilic and does experience AGP at least sometimes. But I don't really care about that one way or another because I'm not even TG let alone TS. My AGP is sans the transgender psychology. I don't experience any significant desire to be female or feminine outside of an erotic context. I'm just your basic AGP that is more related to transvestic fetishism although I'm not even much of a crossdresser these days. However, I can't seem to have a sexual thought without AGP nudging it's way into the mix.

[Rogina B]

No matter how you dress if you have a relationship with another guy it is gay .


I am amazed that you don't have a better understanding of gender... So,I hope you are only hunting gay women for your hopes of a new relationship !

[Lydianne]

I think there might also be an element of trying to make oneself appear more palatable for public acceptance:

"Hey, look, I'm only 'this'. I'm not 'that' as well!"

A similar mechanism operates here regarding the 'correct way of dressing', where a divergence from what is thought to be ideal is perceived as being detrimental to the community's probability of public acceptance ( e.g. NB-presentations ( even though the ones here have repeatedly demonstrated achieving amazing success on their own merits ) ).

Acceptance does not happen over tea and scones. Women's rights, race, L, G & B were all messy. Us trying to find our place in our communities is most likely going to be messy too. Probably better not to celebrate distancing ourselves from groups that are better understood than us.

:2c:.

- Lydianne.

[Teresa]

Stevie,
I mustn't sidetrack this thread too much with AGP but Blanchard has been left far behind . The other point is I have been in touch with some acknowledge people in this field and questioned the issue of AGP with TGs rather than TSs and it was quite an eye opener how much information is available , there is far more than the fetish angle associated with it .

Rogina ,
I know you got my drift without me having to explain my words and split hairs .

Lydianne,
That's a tricky debate , I know some aren't happy as TGs being tagged in with the lesbian/ gay community because the claim not to be gay . Some do prefer using the TG flag rather than the LGBTQ one . The question is are we better under that umbrella or going our separate ways as the TG community . I guess the answer is , " There's no pleasing everybody !"

In everyday life most of this doesn't matter , I find acceptance isn't a problem . Activists are a help and an hinderance , if they push the community too hard they undo the good work already achieved . I love my tea and scones , I think we can win many over by sitting round that particular table . I do mean that literally , I often think just sitting having coffee with TG friends is a simple and effective way of putting our message across , to onlookers it is normal behaviour .

[Rhonda Jean]

Rogina,

I don't understand your comment to Teresa at all. I agree with Teresa, so I guess I don't have a good understanding of gender, either.

I was married for a long time. My wife and I had straight sex. Sometimes I was dressed. Still straight sex. After the divorce I've been with a few men. I was almost always dressed. That was gay sex. I don't think it makes it any less gay that if I was dressed as a woman, "felt" like I was a woman, imagined myself to be a woman, or performed like a woman.

[Karmen]

Well, I believe a lot of people who know me also think I'm gay, because I don't have a wife and children or even a serious relationship with a woman. But I don't care. Being gay is kind of ok these days. Most of the people don't think that's bad, at least here in Europe. But most of the people still consider crossdressing a taboo and as something deviant. So it's better for me if others think that I'm gay than know that I'm a crossdresser.

[Rogina B]

Rogina,

I don't understand your comment to Teresa at all. I don't think it makes it any less gay that if I was dressed as a woman, "felt" like I was a woman, imagined myself to be a woman, or performed like a woman.
Teresa mentioned "transitioned TS's" as friends...Pre op or post op ? Is it gay sex ? Now,what about F to M guys? How do you two see that ?

[BTWimRobin]

I would like to think that I have reached the stage of my life where I don't really care if someone thinks I am gay or not.

[docrobbysherry]

Teresa mentioned "transitioned TS's" as friends...Pre op or post op ? Is it gay sex ? Now,what about F to M guys? How do you two see that ?
That makes a big difference to me, Rogina. Altho I'm old, I still feel sex is a big part of any relationship I'm in. So, attraction is critical! I have been, and am NOW, attracted to some pre op TS friends. But, would never come on to them because below the waist my attraction to them STOPS!:thumbsdn:

[Rogina B]

Doc,In a sense you are contributing to the non acceptance of transgender women...Think "pansexual" and who that matters is judging you as a human...I just can't accept the idea that you or others here can't accept the sexual attraction...because she was born with a penis,like you. Your gender is male,hers is not...

[docrobbysherry]

I totally accept your, and anyone's, LEGAL sexual attraction to anyone u like, Rogina. It appears u don't accept mine? I'm not sure how your sex parts work nor do I care. But, at my age my soldier only stands up and salutes someone very special!:battingeyelashes:

My days of him saluting any woman in the room at a moments notice r long gone!:sad:

[abbiedrake]

The men I had sex with know I'm not gay. I was RUBBISH in bed! Lmao
I couldn't give a fig what others think of me. Which my wife hates about me. ☺️ That's why I'd go out en femme tomorrow were it not for her (pretty irrational) katagelophobia. There's your word for today. 😜

[Patience]

I have no problem with people thinking I’m gay because society has evolved to a point where there’s general agreement that being gay is not a bad thing.

And arguing that there are more hate crimes in the coasts without acknowledging the greater population density (not to mention the greater diversity) makes for a bit of a hollow argument, imo.

[Majella St Gerard]

it bothers me because it's not true and it's ignorant to assume that. I have to inform people all the time that No I Am Not Gay. "Well then why do you wear women's clothes?" That is an ignorant question plain and simple. I had that exact exchange in a bar the other day. I was sitting alone at my regular bar when a man approached and asked if he could sit next to me, I said sure. I get hit on pretty regularly and am prepared. I got around to asking him why he came all the way over here to sit by me, he replied that he thought that I was sexy and , well you know. I then informed him that I liked girls and then he hit me with the question, well then why do you dress like that and why I said he could sit by me. First it's a free country, you can sit anywhere you want, second I'm friendly and I crave attention. He then said Well I guess I'm not gonna get anywhere with you, I said NO, only in your dreams big boy. Conversation died at that point and he left the bar soon after. Some might call me a **** tease but I am always upfront about my sexuality.

I know quite a few women that don't wear traditional women's clothes, only men's style and they are not gay.

You know what happens when you Assume?

[Rogina B]

I totally accept your, and anyone's, LEGAL sexual attraction to anyone u like, Rogina. It appears u don't accept mine? But, at my age my soldier only stands up and salutes someone very special!:battingeyelashes:

My

I think that you "enjoy hanging with the cool kids" at the HM parties but in fact you aren't so accepting of them. What about if one of the girls that you found attracted to revealed,when you asked about her genitals,that she had been castrated a while back....Because she only has "one hole" is she then still off the table for you? She has "no soldier" to stand with yours,lives as a woman...So,is she undesirable to you ? Who knows who has what in their panties ? You have been around the community long enough to know that..

[AmandaM]

Lot's of people think I'm gay or bi when in drab, so no difference for me.

[Teresa]

Rogina,
I know a couple in that tricky situation , they lived for years in a male to male sitaution now one has fully transitioned , they've stayed together but the male partner is now as confused as hell .

To me a TS is post op , same applies to F/M people .

OK there is no denying gender and sexuality can become very blurred , it really is up to the individuals , if they are happy with their situation and it harms no one else it really doesn't matter .

[docrobbysherry]

I think that you "enjoy hanging with the cool kids" at the HM parties but in fact you aren't so accepting of them. What about if one of the girls that you found attracted to revealed,when you asked about her genitals,that she had been castrated a while back....Because she only has "one hole" is she then still off the table for you? She has "no soldier" to stand with yours,lives as a woman...So,is she undesirable to you ? Who knows who has what in their panties ? You have been around the community long enough to know that..
There r so many wrong assumptions and misstatements in your post I don't know where to start, Rogina? But, u obviously have your panties ruffled about me for some reason? And, that's ok. I don't expect everyone to like me. :straightface:

But, I'm concerned you may worry other dressers with your misstatements. I've met 100's of dressers of every ilk and manner over the years but I've NEVER ONCE asked them what was in their panties nor have they asked about mine!:Angry3:

In fact, I could count the number of conversations I've had regarding SEX OF ANY KIND on the fingers of one hand! I can assure everyone sex is NOT a normal topic of conversation at the many T gatherings I've been to!:thumbsdn:

[Aunt Kelly]

Rogina,
I know a couple in that tricky situation , they lived for years in a male to male sitaution now one has fully transitioned , they've stayed together but the male partner is now as confused as hell .

To me a TS is post op , same applies to F/M people .



Given that anyone with even a tenuous grasp on the meaning of the term transsexual knows otherwise, that's a remarkable position to take. Why do you insist on rejecting what everyone else seems to agree upon?

[docrobbysherry]

Auntie, she said, "--to her". That's her opinion. She's NOT claiming that's how it is or even should be!:straightface:

I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Altho, some of mine have been changed by some very wise and educated posters here on cd.com!:heehee:

[AllieSF]

Rogina, I do not understand your line of questioning. If someone is selective about their choice of intimate partners, that is their business. If someone only likes blondes, is that wrong by you? what about someone who is overweight and the other person prefers someone more fit, is that wrong? I can be attracted to many types of people across all the spectrums. However, who I prefer to be intimate is a very small minority. I believe that is what Sherry is saying. That does not make her a homophobe nor a transphobe. Are you saying that she is?

[MarinaTwelve200]

I do not need another set of problems.---Even in today's "Enlightened" society folks will treat you "differently at best". I am already known as being somewhat of an "eccentric" --one major reason I don't go out dressed (save for costume events). ;)

[Paula DAngelo]

Auntie, she said, "--to her". That's her opinion. She's NOT claiming that's how it is or even should be!:straightface:

I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I agree that Teresa is stating her opinion and is entitled to it, however that does not mean that it can not be challenged. Just because someone states something as an opinion does not give them the right to redefine established terms/ideas and not expect to be called out about it. Not only is the opinion wrong (see the definition of Transsexual that is in effect for this forum) in this case, it is insulting. The statement that Teresa made has just erased all Pre-op and Non-op transsexuals from existence. If Teresa and/or others truly believe that to be considered a Transsexual you must be post-op then I expect that I'll no longer see them replying to threads in the Transsexual forum that request responses from only Transsexuals (I'm not going to hold my breath for this to happen though).

[abbiedrake]

I have to agree with Paula, much as I love Teresa. It's too old skool an attitude to dismiss pre-op TS. Especially from someone who is 'socially transitioning', a phrase I understand and accept at face value.
Let's face it, our sexuality is clearly an emotive subject for many. whereas some of us don't much care, or even love the variety. Takes all sorts, right?

[Aunt Kelly]

Auntie, she said, "--to her". That's her opinion. She's NOT claiming that's how it is or even should be!:straightface:

I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Altho, some of mine have been changed by some very wise and educated posters here on cd.com!:heehee:

Everyone is indeed entitled to their own opinions, but not to their own facts. Theresa's assertion that TS means post-op is demonstrably false. Have we not had enough contention and confusion arising from people insisting that patent falsehoods are defensible as long as they are qualified as "my opinion"?

As Paula has pointed out, whether it is born of ignorance, indifference or just base arrogance, such a statement is, to say the least, insulting and insensitive.

[Nastasha]

People are going to think whatever they think. If they think I'm gay, OK, if they don't, again, OK.

To borrow from To Wong Foo with Love - "Approval neither desired no required"

[Rogina B]

Rogina, However, who I prefer to be intimate is a very small minority. I believe that is what Sherry is saying. That does not make her a homophobe nor a transphobe. Are you saying that she is?

I am...In one of Sherry's posts on this she stated that she was attracted to some girls she meets at HM parties. However,if they have a penis then it is a no go in her mind. So,that brought on my position. There are loads of girls that have been on HRT for a good while and have also been castrated. Sherry may find them attrtactive,BUT,because they are a "one holer" then they are not a woman and Sherry only goes to bed with women... Phobic...

[Ressie]

Another thread gone off the rails lol. I'm sure some people think I'm gay no matter how I'm dressed. Some people think pretty much everyone is gay.

I don't like the newer meaning of the word phobia. A phobia is originally an extreme fear of something and has nothing to do with hate. Also, it's a completely psychological to have a phobia. No one chooses to have a fear of heights, water, germs, insects, leaving their house etc.

[Cheryl T]

Someone once asked me that..."are you Gay?".
I quickly replied, "I'm not even happy right now".

That ended the conversation, but no, it doesn't bother me if they think that. It's kind of expected that the uninformed would go to that place and as such they need to be educated.

[Rhonda Jean]

Another thread gone off the rails lol.

I think if we can keep this from turning into a full blown cat fight, this is good healthy discussion. It is very frustrating to me that I don't get the distinctions sometimes. You'd think, given my life experience, I'd have some deep understanding. I've been married and as straight as anybody. I've been "diagnosed" TS, even though I disagreed at the time and still do. Since my divorce I've been with another TG girl and a couple of men, and from a purely sexual standpoint I'm way over into the "gay" camp.

Discussions like this bring out every distinction. Those who seem to protest the most about the gay/cd connection are those who are married or in committed relationships with women. I get that. I believe they're not. I used to be one of those. I tend to think they're probably like I was and have not yet encountered the "perfect storm", but that's another subject. Where I completely lose understanding and amplify frustration is with those who proclaim loudly how straight they are... except when they're dressed, as if putting on a dress makes them a completely different person.

Then there's Rogina's point about non-op TS. I'll admit that I hadn't given that great consideration. I'll also admit that in my old school way of thinking, penis/penis is gay, but Rogina made me think. It's still a gray area for me, but I clearly get her point.

What really amplifies my frustration is the strong resistance from whatever side to being described/labeled as gay. Not picking on Rogina, but if she said she was straight, with no other qualifiers I wouldn't know whether that meant she preferred men or women. I don't think these nuances are well understood. Rogina can speak for herself, but I suspect that to her it's not a nuance.

As one who's gone to "the other side", so to speak, it's frustrating to see that even within this community there is such resistance to any inference that one is gay. It comes across strongly to me that even here, gay is BAD, unthinkable, the lowest of the low. It has been a wonderful and enlightening experience for me. I try not to take it as a personal affront when I feel "talked down to", and in the grand scheme it doesn't matter, but I just don't understand the vitriol.

[KrissyP]

Thank you Rhonda Jean, well said.

I will add to Ressie's comment that we need get back to good definitions. Phobias as Ressie reminded us are normal. But I think here we are often just talking about personal preferences not really "extreme fear." Neither of those come anywhere close to equaling "hate." In this forum I would think we would all be a bit more tolerant than your average Tuesday morning coffee klatsch when dealing with people not like us.

It is informative and educational to hear about your preferences. It makes me consider and refine my thoughts. Thanks so much!

[abbiedrake]

Here's the sticking point with homophobia. It's a touchy subject akin to calling someone a racist but the dictionary definitions on both sides of the Atlantic include 'strong dislike of' as well as fear.
Those truly phobic need treatment. Stat.
Those in the 'strong dislike' camp? Well, I won't condone shaming but calling out and educating? Yep indeedy.
Those of us of varying gender identity and a variety of sexual preferences could reasonably be expected to do a little better.
But I also think a little acceptance of a flat 'I'm straight' is fine too. Unless someone renting billboards to say it in which yeah, maybe she doth protest too much.

[docrobbysherry]

I am...In one of Sherry's posts on this she stated that she was attracted to some girls she meets at HM parties. However,if they have a penis then it is a no go in her mind. So,that brought on my position. There are loads of girls that have been on HRT for a good while and have also been castrated. Sherry may find them attrtactive,BUT,because they are a "one holer" then they are not a woman and Sherry only goes to bed with women... Phobic...
I don't wish to continue this discussion, Rogina. So, if u wish to label me "phobic" u go rite ahead!:battingeyelashes:

I believe the fact that I like ALL trans, no matter where they r along the male to female road, says I'm not. However, I have no control over whom I'm attracted to. I wish I wasn't straight. I'm often sad nothing male turns me on. :thumbsdn:

If that means I'm phobic to u? You're entitled to your opinion same as everyone!:thumbsup:

[Teresa]

Aunt Kelly and others,
I don't just sit back and make all this up to upset members here I 'm relating very much from what I have seen and from conversations with many CDers , TGs and TSs , some of your replies are being made without experiencing that situation , some are making comments from assumptions rather than reality .

I admit there is a blurring of gender and sexuality , I also admit it is confusing at times for the parties concerned let alone onlookers , Kelly it's not a tenuous grip on reality , I do understand what all the terms mean , all I'm doing is relating to people I know , there is a big difference between text book definitions and what happens in reality , the definition may be true but so is the reality of how people interpret it .

One final point it's rather an arrogant statement you make accusing other people of it and indifference , does that mean Dear Aunt Kelly is the font of all knowledge and everyone else is talking out their rear end ? We've had this debate before , the conclusion was my World and your World are totally different because we live in different countries with different cultures .

[char GG]

This thread has gone way beyond the OP's original question. Please do not let this thread go any further off track.

[Susan Smokes]

If people think I am Gay, then so be it. There is nothing wrong with being Gay.

[KimberlyJean]

Being labeled as gay is the least of my concerns. I get what Sometimes Miss said about finding a mate and the perceptions attatched to that. I however am not the least bit interested in hooking up so being thought of as gay is not even in my thoughts.

[Rogina B]

I don't wish to continue this discussion, Rogina. So, if u wish to label me "phobic" u go rite ahead!:battingeyelashes:

I believe the fact that I like ALL trans, no matter where they r along the male to female road, says I'm not. I'm often sad nothing male turns me on. :thumbsdn:

If that means I'm phobic to u? You're entitled to your opinion same as everyone!:thumbsup:
You can't grasp the reality of the term "transwoman"...No part is male....

[char GG]

I specifically requested that responses only answer the OP's question. Again, there is another comment unrelated to the OP. This thread is closed.