My wife's theory

[Joyce Swindell]

My wife knew of my crossdressing before we we're married and is very accepting. We've been married over 10 years. The other day she said she had "figured it out". Figured what out I asked. The question of why men who crossdress that have sexual interaction with other men and don't consider themselves gay.
It is her theory that because he is presenting as a woman that in his mind he is having that experience as a woman which makes it ok and not gay.

Your thoughts?

[Amy Lynn3]

Joyce, I think their are a multitude of reasons why men who crossdress interact with other men. I agree with your wife on her reasoning, but think many more reasons apply. Film, money and drugs to name a few. One can get more ideas from looking at sites like fetlife, in my opinion.

[Jaylyn]

Don't we all have our own excuses for every thing that is questionable to others? I'm fairly sure I'm not gay but I also have never considered myself a CD. I used to think I could stop anytime for good but the urge has always come back and sometimes even stronger than when I quit. I finally admitted when I told my wife of my desires to CD that I just plain enjoy dressing. I've heard many say it's a way of relaxation for them now that I'm older I understand what they are talking about.

[Micki_Finn]

Well, you could always just ASK one of those men... but to be honest I think there are fewer of them than you may believe. If you think about who we have here on the forums, we have girls who are curious and questioning and have limited or no experience, so they do t really know what to call themselves. Then there are openly bi and gay members. You don’t see a whole lot of “I have sex with men but I’m straight” around here...

[Asew]

My version of CD is that I am not a girl but like girly things. But I don't have an interest in men so I never had to do such mental gymnastics.

[sometimes_miss]

Everyone has their own theories. If you ask 100 of us, you may very well get 100 different answers. Whatever makes her happy and willing to accept you as you are, well, go with that.

[Teresa]

Joyce,
It is a confusing issue , I feel the same way with females almost like a double attraction .

[Majella St Gerard]

Every one defines themselves. What you think about your sexuality and what I think about mine are completely different in our own minds, even though they might be similar. Some people would consider me bisexual because I have "played around " with men sexually. But I'm not attracted to men emotionally or romantically. I have always been aroused by kinky and taboo sex scenarios well before I crossdressed. I describe myself as straight but will bend if the wind is right. Preferably with a female involved. Just my 2 cents.

[Rachelakld]

Gay can be fun and okay can't it?
I think life should be full of fun experiences (so long as it's consented if others are involved).

[Helen_Highwater]

Joyce,

Perhaps it could be argued that men who enjoy the company of other men while dressed are really denying that they're either bi or veering more to being transexual than they'd care to admit to themselves.

I feel it's difficult to use one paint brush to colour many. There's also the lurking misconception that to be CD equates to being Gay and this could be skewing people's reasoning.

[Brandi Christine]

By definition, a gay person is someone attracted to the same gender, if a crossdresser identifies as a woman, then having sexual relations with a male is not gay. When en femme I am totally a woman...

[alwayshave]

Joyce, I get your wife theory. However, not that it really matters to those who see it this way, I disagree.

[Teresa]

Brandiaztv,
It's not as simple as that , I know people who thought that way and lived to regret it , you may take off the clothes and the wig but the memory of your actions won't go away , some are happy to live with that and some become really screwed up .

It aslo creates a problem with wives /partners where they have questioned the BI/gay aspect and you've given reassurances you aren't gay . Coming to terms with a partner's CDing is one thing but to find you've been lied to over your sexual preferenes is something else .

The fun angle soon deminishes when the divorces start flying round !

[Brandi Christine]

Just to be clear, I would never cheat on my wife, with a woman or a man... I truly love her but have issues (that's why I am here). Were I single things might be different, but there are so many negatives (getting physically or emotionally hurt, or killed, STD's etc...) I do not know if it would be worth it. My fantasy's are another matter, but they stay just that, fantasy.

[Teresa]

Brandiaztv,
It's whatever you're comfortable with , if it hurts no one there's no harm in it but you never know the truth until you've lived it and then it might be too late .

Fantasies can materialise , when I joined back in 2013 much of my life now would have been a fantasy then .

[Rhandi Spencer]

I understand the wifes theory.
I recently came out as TG to a co-worker who immediately said "I figured you swing both ways." This led to a complete different conversation.
For me being Trans has nothing to do with my sexual preferences.

Heidi

[MarinaTwelve200]

Crossdressing has no single cause---it is just a SECONDARY aspect or activity SHARED by a variety of different motives and conditions. Yes, some Gay men Crossdress, but others are entirely turned off by the idea of emulating such an "unattractive" entity called a "woman". Some crossdressers, identify with women, others find it an ultimate fetish. Some of us, like me, are "escapists" who do not identify with women where crossdressing is a way to temporally "Escape" one's own self and take "a vacation from ones self and become "not me" for "stress relief" sexual gratification or both. still others are into a form of " self-humiliation" masochism, and THAT turns them on. indeed, in many Psychological Circles, Gay people who crossdress are not consider crossdressers at all, CD being defined as simply straight men who wear women's garments.

[Stephanie47]

I read an article not too long ago which indicated a singular act of same sex interaction does not meet the definition of homosexuality. It is a homosexual act, but, does not define a person as homosexual. What does your wife say about men who actively pursue cross dressing men for a sexual encounter? Do they view "her" as a woman or something else?

[docrobbysherry]

Your wife and "straight" T's that go for men can say whatever!:brolleyes:
To me, it's all so simple!:)

Parts is parts. And, that was how I sorted out my "woman with men" fantasies. I'm NOT attracted to male parts. Zero, zip, nada! If it's male looking, feeling, acting, I'm out! :thumbsdn:

When come on to, I'm flattered and have often enjoyed it! But, I just say, "No".

If you're attracted to male parts? You're simply NOT straight!:battingeyelashes:

[Tracii G]

Heidi thats exactly how the public sees us so I hope you set him straight.

[MarinaTwelve200]

About this GAY thing.----I sincerely believe that MANY adults still subscribe to the "Definition" of "Gay/Homosexual" we were first given as kids "A boy/Man who thinks he is or wants to be a girl". So a man who dresses like a woman is "gay". In their ignorance, they never learned that gay really means "being sexually ATTRACTED to the same sex". ----That's just ANOTHER "gay" characteristic in their limited mind databases, that puts ALL crossdressers, Transsexuals and homosexuals, "in the same barrel," so to speak.

[Micki_Finn]

I would disagree with you Marina. I think people in general understand that gay means attracted to the same sex. I think we get falsely equated because the ignorant assume our motivation is to “seduce” or “trick” men into engaging in sex.

[Gillian Gigs]

Many people live their lives compartmentalizing things to help them understand their world. If it was only that easy! Joyce, your wife has a point, but it's difficult to determine how many individuals are in that category. Sex and sexuality has always been a difficult path to wander down, and unfortunately it doesn't seem to be getting any simpler. Between someone justifying their actions and/or living in denial, who is ever going to get to the bottom of it all. Or who would want to.
Personally I think that any man who said that they never masturbated is a liar, or never properly developed down there. Then having said that, I think that most men have had fantasies involving the same sex. They don't act on it and the guilt, or shame of the fantasies leads them to spurn the gay lifestyle. Yet many of these same individuals would find it titillating fantasizing, or watching some girl on girl action. This only shows the hypocrisy within their thinking.
I can only speak for me, when I say my CD'ing habits are heterosexual and thoughts are wife centred 99% of the time. I would be a liar if I said 100%. I'm not perfect, and neither is anyone else.

[MarinaTwelve200]

I would disagree with you Marina. I think people in general understand that gay means attracted to the same sex. I think we get falsely equated because the ignorant assume our motivation is to “seduce” or “trick” men into engaging in sex.

I didn't say MOST I said MANY have the kids idea about what gay means----And you bring up THE CLASSIC "ignorant myth" based on the same thing. "Gays crossdress to seduce and trick straight men into having sex with them". I am amazed at how many people actually believe this one. MANY People just don't think and must make a true effort to stay ignorant. I stayed out of a lot of trouble and avoided much guilt and confusion when I was a kid by going to reputable BOOKS and sources of reference to get REAL information on sex and sexuality questions, instead of asking or relying on my equally ignorant peers. While they wallowed and suffered in crazy myths, I pretty much knew the medical and psychological truth---for the times---I still ended up a cross dresser, but felt good about myself anyway.

BTW--no offense to YOU Micki Finn----I am just not sure how to tone of my reply might be taken by some people.

[BTWimRobin]

Hi Joyce,

This topic has come up, in different flavors, several times recently. After reading through everyone's comments the only conclusion I can derive is that in skirting the boundaries of gender we are in a grey area. How you present yourself and how you perceive yourself opens up sexual preference to a variety of interpretations.

My thought has always been what goes on between two consenting adults is really non of my business as long as you are happy and not hurting anyone.

:2c:
Robin

[Beverley Sims]

It sounds like a valid theory to me.

I have met others who think the same way.

[Dannie1]

So I haven’t read everyone’s comments so this is a straight reply to your thread. And I’m glad I stumbled on it.
I’ve explained this exact theory to my wife. I had to soul search and came to conclusion I was bisexual.
Now at the point I came to acknowledge that, it matters to me not one bit in my marriage. I am happily married to a woman and she is only my second experience. Previous also being a woman. So I guess that means I’m bicurious. But as I’m married unless the marriage breaks down I’m not likely to experience the same sex.
Now for the theory: when I see myself with someone of the same sex. I imagine me in the female role. I would look to find someone who does partake in cross dressing but would mainly be the lead male. So I could be the female and everything that goes with it. I imagine my life changing drastically if I ever divorced... not transition fully but definitely live as a woman 90% of the time if that makes sense???

[deebra]

Joyce I agree with your wife. Been there done that.

[Marianne S]

It aslo creates a problem with wives /partners where they have questioned the BI/gay aspect and you've given reassurances you aren't gay . Coming to terms with a partner's CDing is one thing but to find you've been lied to over your sexual preferenes is something else .

I’m sure that’s true! I don’t doubt many wives dislike CDing because they’re attracted to a masculine, not a feminine partner, though others don’t find it such a problem and even have fun accepting it. But sexual preference is altogether a different kettle of fish, because it raises the specter of a husband being tempted to infidelity--with another man!

[Eemz]

Your wife is right in the sense that there are guys out there who will claim any crazy ass reason not to be "gay".

My favorite one is two guys both in perfectly ordinary male clothes ... "no no, you see, *you're* gay, but I'm not. And that's why we slept together. You see?"
Er dude... no, I don't think it works like that...

> You don’t see a whole lot of “I have sex with men but I’m straight” around here...

Ya I agree with Micki on that.

[Marianne S]

I think we get falsely equated because the ignorant assume our motivation is to "seduce" or "trick" men into engaging in sex.

That's an interesting statement I've never heard before, and well worth discussing. If that's what's in some people's minds about CDers, to me it seems a strange stereotype. Just the same...

We all know it's not true in the least that a male who CDs is necessarily interested sexually in other men--although some are. And at the other extreme, there are indeed some CDing male prostitutes on the streets who do trick men into engaging in sex under the illusion that they're women. They do it mainly for the money, I suppose, rather than for sexual gratification per se. I remember driving in Paris many years ago with a French colleague who warned us the Bois de Boulogne was a place to be careful of, because, he said in accented English, "there are women there who are not women"--a delightfully delicate way of expressing it! I also recall a notorious and well-publicized incident 28 years ago in my own town (Phoenix), when Danny Bonaduce fell for one of these transvestite tricksters, then punched the guy out when he discovered he'd been fooled, and was arrested for it. People dubbed him "Danny Bonedunce" for falling for it and getting himself so publicly embarrassed. (Google the incident if you're interested.)

I'm sure everybody would condemn anyone who was CDing in order to trick a man into having sex with them under false pretenses. That's immoral and wrong and stupid--and dangerous besides! Still, I never imagined that CDers in general would be stereotyped as having this motivation. Thinking this over, I have to condemn people like that all the more for getting the rest of us a bad name!

Mind you, I don't believe it's the only reason that many people react negatively to CDing. In my mind the number one reason is that to many people it's "weird," and they just can't handle "weird." It causes them cognitive dissonance that they can't resolve. Closely allied to this is disapproval of males who crossdress, not for supposedly "abandoning what's erroneously called male privilege"--that's a fallacy--but for assuming female privilege to which males are not considered entitled.

But "female power" of course includes sexual power over men. And it's important to distinguish between "seducing" men and "tricking" men into engaging in sex.

To "seduce" men is one thing. And I'm sure some CDers (not all by any means!) enjoy at least the fantasy, if not the reality, of "seducing" a man who might enjoy sex with them--an enjoyment that's mutual. To trick a man into engaging in sex is quite another matter, one that should quite rightly horrify any man. I've never forgotten a scene many years ago from an obscure movie called Goodbye Gemini featuring a blackmail plot based on just such a scenario--and as a male it did strike me as horrifying when apparently "seductive women" were suddenly and shockingly revealed to be male. If some men really believe that's what CDers are trying to do, I can't blame them for reacting with horror.

However, I'm not sure that's the case, and I can't help wondering if it is the power to "seduce" rather than to "trick" that gets some men (not all, but some) bent out of shape about CDers. Hey, if a man finds a CDer beautiful and erotic, and wants to have sex with "her" in his male role as if she were a woman, there's nothing wrong with that, as long as they're both happy with it. Though I do wonder exactly what kind of man is particularly attracted to CDers in that sexual way. It wouldn't appeal to me personally from a male viewpoint. So I can't help speculating that men to whom it does appeal are to some degree bisexual. If they are, sex with a CDer gives them the best of both worlds!--a partner who's male, yet with much of the beauty and femininity of a woman. And as long as such a man accepts his own sexuality and his enjoyment of sex with a CDer, that's all fine.

Unfortunately not all men accept their own sexuality, and some aren't even fully convinced of their own "straightness," however genuine. It's "insecure" men that we have to fear. That's where that "cognitive dissonance" plays a part. They may see an attractive CDer--who by the way was not even trying to "seduce" them; not even thinking about it--and they know it's really a male, but they can't sort their own feelings out! "Should I feel sexually aroused by this person's appearance, or not? If I am, does that mean I'm 'gay'? Horrors!" It's a classic type of "projection" that when some people are disturbed and can't resolve their own feelings, they blame their feelings on the person who triggered them--as if that person were the "cause" of those feelings and was deliberately targeting them--and hate that person for supposedly doing so.

An interesting point, and well worth thinking about, Micki!

[Tracii G]

Marianne that statement is as old as the hills and has been discussed here many times.
Its exactly what many people think and its nothing new.

Years ago I had one fellow hit me up in a club and wanted to buy me a drink and wanted to talk.
We talked for 30 min or so and he asked if I wanted to get a room.
I said you do know I am a guy right? He said really? I said yes and asked if he was gay.
He said no and I said well then why do you want to get a room?
He said well you are very attractive and look so much like a woman how could having sex with you be a bad thing?
I said have you ever been with a guy sexually? he said no.
I declined his offer and he was fine with it and thanked me for making him think about what he was doing.
He admitted he was surprised he was talking to a dude in a dress because it was not a gay bar.

[Devi SM]

My wife knew of my crossdressing before we we're married and is very accepting. We've been married over 10 years. The other day she said she had "figured it out". Figured what out I asked. The question of why men who crossdress that have sexual interaction with other men and don't consider themselves gay. ?

I'm sorry to ask Joyce, where did your wife get that idea that some cders have sex with men? Are you one of them?
Honestly, I ask because I don't see the obligated connection between cding and having sex with men.
I'd said that for years I thought being bisexual but getting into hormones changed completely my mindset. Before that I was arriving to the conclusion I was gay because I had sex with more men than women but, that was just a "natural" expression of my femininity in a "pubertal" period of my life. In that period I interact, had friends that were cders and enjoy sex with men but never call themselves gays, mostly bisexual, most of them happily married as I was.
What in trying to say is to arrive to the reasons of crossdressing is really hard. In my 4 years heard so many reasons but none if them being gay.

[LilSissyStevie]

This subject comes up now and then and the arguments always go around in circles. The reason being that people cannot separate the objective from the subjective. Objectively, a male bodied person having sex with another male bodied person constitutes a homosexual act. But the subjective reasons are important. Most people would consider one to be gay if they are sexually/romantically attracted to members of the same sex. Some, not many, CDs are gay in that respect. A much larger portion of CDs fantasize about and even engage in sex with other men but are not attracted to them in any way. Sometimes they characterize it as "bi when dressed" as if calling yourself bi makes the act less homosexual. What they are attracted to is, not the man but, the idea of themselves as women. They associate having sex with men with being a woman. The man is just a prop in the fantasy of being a woman or feminine. This is called autogynephilia (AGP). AGP is not gay or straight or bi. It's its own sexual orientation. I include myself in this latter group so after decades of thinking I may be a latent homosexual but wondering why I don't find any men attractive in real life, I now know I'm not gay. Sometimes I think I'd rather be gay, to tell the truth. Gay people can have healthy relationships but AGP distorts everything.

[Meghan4now]

Dang Stevie, that's pretty straightforward! Excellent description, and a pretty bold self assessment.

Micki also made a good point about the perception that some have about us Surprising or Trapping guys. Works in a porn movie, probably deadly dangerous in real life.