Inherited?

[Kenita]

My father recently passed away and while selecting clothes for him to be buried in I found something interesting. In his underwear drawer, hidden in the back under the everyday boxers, was a camisole, a pair of panties or two and some stockings/pantyhose.

Only one thought and explanation came to mind. But it seemed like a small “stash” for a true cross dresser. Then a few days later in the basement I found a plastic tub of lingerie. The mixed assortment, mostly panties, did not look like they could be from his wife who had mostly moved out a while back. No reason for her’s to be in the basement.

The discovery gave my (fully accepting and aware) wife and me a laugh and a new appreciation for my father. But it also raised the thought of whether or not cross dressing may be genetic and part of my inheritance. Certainly being transgender could be or may likely be.

(This is my first post, after “lurking” here for many, many years, often as an unsigned-in guest).

[Rachelakld]

often seen my dad ladies department "shopping for my mum" but last time I know of him wearing a bra, was on a busy beach with other young men for a dare, he was probably 19 at the time.
I did see my mum in jeans and tee-shirt, back when ladies didn't wear jeans.

Still, I'm not a fan of the genetic theory if someone tries to apply it to me.

[Helen_Highwater]

Kenita,

Firstly welcome and condolences on your loss. You've joined an inclusive community always willing to answer any questions you may have.

Now as for inherited. I'm going to say unlikely, more coincidental. It's possible given what you found that your father, and I hope this doesn't sound disrespectful, was perhaps more a fetish dresser.

Against that if he'd lived in more accepting times, society afterall took a less than positive view only a few years ago, he may have taken things further. Sadly you'll never know and even if he was still alive it's not the sort of conversation and father and son readily have.

One quick question. Did he know about your dressing?

[alwayshave]

Kenita, my condolences on your loss. I don't believe its inherited. Given the percentages of men who crossdress you're bound to find it in multiple generations in the same family.

[Crissy 107]

Kenita, Welcome, Good to have you on the posting side of this wonderful site.
Interesting find but likely a coincidence but heck nobody knows for sure.

[LaurenS]

It’s fun to ponder the reasons. Could be some genetic, some family environment, but probably a coincidence.

I think the rate of MTF CDers are higher than what many believe, but hey, it’s just a gut feeling.

Welcome!

[Micki_Finn]

My understanding is that there is some evidence that transgenderism is genetically based but there isn’t really evidence to show its genetically inherited

[Stephanie47]

Welcome to the forum. And condolences on your loss. As to whether the need to cross dress is inherited.....who knows?

A counselor I see for war related PTSD issues is of the opinion each person has some degree of the dna of the opposite sex. In some it is more than others. If her assertion is correct, then perhaps that dna is passed on. Why would a genetic male be attracted to men? Or women attracted to women? Or men feeling the need to emulate a woman? Or a man transition to a woman? Getting past the dna issue I would suspect the degree of dna involved may create more intense desires/needs than in others. And, maybe based upon the degree of dna one person may be able to suppress that need more than others. Dad's degree of involvement may be just a limited cross dressing desire in the form of fetish wear. Maybe dad was able to suppress a more heightened need.

If my wife predeceases me my kids are going to be shocked. There are at least eighteen Xerox boxes of women's clothing in my stash. I don't think my kids are going to think their mom wore size 13 high heels.

[NancySue]

After years of reading, research, I’m not sure what causes me to have the need to dress, but it’s here and very compulsive. I’ve tried to quit several times, but ever since, at a young age, when I first put on my first pair of nylon stockings, I continue the need to dress. I’ve come a long way to now dressing completely...whenever I feel the need. (My wife is very supportive)...neither of us understands my needs, but we accept and know...it’s here...to stay. My wardrobe is now very complete including makeup, wigs, heels, flats, etc. My sense cding has, to some degree, involve genetic since it involves the mind. Who knows? I just enjoy dressing.

[Suzi Q]

Kenita,

I've read recently that there has been genetic connections. I know for sure through genealogical research and records that my mothers aunt starting in her early 30's left home and lived as a man about 40 years. She married a woman and they lived as a couple. I have photographs and copies of records including her death certificate which listed her as a male. Her doctor had kept her secret for years.

Suzi Q

[Sometimes Steffi]

One has to wonder why homosexuality and transgenderism even exist. Two gay men can't have children, and neither can two gay women. Since being gay or transgender is frowned on but most societies, past and present, How do gay and trans men and women survive? How do they pass their genes on to future generations? Why are they not killed and their "defective" DNA eliminated from mankind? Is there any value in society that would allow gay and transgender people to perpetuate the genes?

[Teresa]

Kenita,
Gretchen may have some updates on this subject which is a very interesting one . I wonder if my son has this thought in the back of his mind .

[sometimes_miss]

A counselor I see for war related PTSD issues is of the opinion each person has some degree of the dna of the opposite sex. In some it is more than others. If her assertion is correct, then perhaps that dna is passed on.
What genes are specific to females alone other than what's found on the X chromosome? Supposedly the entire human genome has been mapped out.


One has to wonder why homosexuality and transgenderism even exist. Two gay men can't have children, and neither can two gay women. Since being gay or transgender is frowned on but most societies, past and present, How do gay and trans men and women survive? How do they pass their genes on to future generations? Why are they not killed and their "defective" DNA eleminitaded from mankind? Is there any value in society that would allow gay and transgender people to perpetuate the genes?

^this. If it were genetic, it would have been gone from the gene pool a long time ago. It's not whether or not they have any value to society; we can see even today, the animosity towards gay and transgendered people, and it was even worse in the past.

[Sometimes Steffi]

The reason for my post above is that some mutations have a beneficial effect. For example, sickle cell anemia typically shortens life spans, but people live long enough to have children and propagate the chromosomal defect. Sickle cell anemia also provides some immunity to malaria. So, in places where malaria is still endemic, there is a Darwinian advantage to sickle cell anemia.

See Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sickle_cell_disease)for more details.

[Aprilrain]

For example, sickle cell anemia typically shortens life spans, but people live long enough to have children and propagate the chromosomal defect. .

What about being gay or trans or wearing taboo clothing shortens lifespans?

All of these traits are easily hidden by most people who display them if need be.

Most humans are easily capable of viable reproduction by the age of 13 or 14 which also happens to be when most of us are cracked out on brand new sex hormones and are ravenously horny so Its not hard to see how the population carries on in spite of the fact that a very small percentage of the population either chooses not to or is incapable of producing off spring.

I should know I did it for 34 years and in that 34 years I tried to do what I thought I was supposed to do and got married and had kids. That relationship is long since over (hallelujah!) and I have moved on including finding a new spouse.
My husband and I just celebrated 1 year! I never should have been in an intimate relationship with another woman, the results were disastrous. This time everything is the right way around though.

So anyway, mine is just one story. Here is another. In high school I briefly dated a girl who's dad had come out as gay when she was in grade school. I'm sure the separation and divorce were hard as I'm sure it was for my kids but after a year or so the kids get used to the new normal. Besides LOADS of people get married have kids fall out get divorced and move on to new relationships. The very idea of the "nuclear family" was just post WWII population regeneration propaganda BS.


So again, what is so fatal or "anti-procreation" about loving someone of the same sex or knowing you got the wrong body at birth or liking to wear clothes that other people say you shouldn't wear?

[Kenita]

Thank you all for your replies and condolences.

I would say I am more on the fetish and casual cross dresser end of the spectrum rather than transgender end. So, Helen, I do not find it disrespectful to suggest my father may have been the same.

To me, it is more of a curious coincidence that raises suggestions that are fun to ponder. I am not myself seeking a cause or explanation for my own proclivities. And, in fact, to consider how common cross dressing may be and how many people we know and love may be themselves secret cross dressers is as interesting as genetic causes. But if there could be a genetic link it could also mean that those closest to us may be closer than we knew in terms of being or accepting CD.

Thanks again, Kenita

[GretchenM]

Kenita,

There is some evidence that this behavior, like most behaviors, do have an inheritable characteristic. Twins studies have shown this, as well as a few other studies. However, separating the effects of genetics and the effects of environment alone or in combination with genetics requires studying huge numbers of people. Unfortunately, rounding up a huge number of people that have a low grade form of transgenderism, such as cross-dressing, is next to impossible. I suspect it will be studied at some point, but right now the emphasis is on finding the source of the strong form of transgender behavior. Lots of progress and inheritable to some extent or other, but no smoking guns. So, I believe the science would answer your question as "It is possible, but don't hold your breath on getting a definite answer anytime soon." All behavior has a genetic foundation of some degree or other, but, depending on the behavior, that foundation might be a block of concrete or piece of tissue.

I suggest you just allow the good feelings about your father flow through and with your discovery realize that he was the wonderful man you loved, but was also purely human with secrets of various kinds just like everybody else. I found some things about my father after he died and I had to chuckle about it. He was an artist and I found some drawings that were, well, I will leave that to your imagination. I had to laugh because he was thought of as being one of the least likely people to engage in that kind of xxx art. He became more real to me.

Welcome to the forum.

Gretchen

[Sometimes Steffi]

What about being gay or trans or wearing taboo clothing shortens lifespans?


Maybe I wrote it ambiguously. What I meant was that Sickle Cell Anemia shortens your, not being trans.

I also was referring to evolution in general.

[Harriettes]

A few years ago my son died from a drug overdose. During the packing up and moving his stuff from his apartment my wife and her cousin found some female clothes in his bedroom and just assumed it was a past girlfriend. On his computer I found photos of himself dressed in lingerie and dresses, some almost pornographic. I never told my wife due to her hostility towards crossdressing and extreme distaste for porn. I know that when he was a preteen he walked in on me dressed in panties and bra.
I don't know - nature, nurture?

[Jenny22]

Kenita, I'm presuming you are Japanese. Your English is excellent! Are you now living in Tokyo? If yes, is being trans there and open life style and accepted?

[HollyGreene]

When my grandmother died many years ago, my parents went to clear her house. It was a veritable Aladdin's Cave of stuff that she had bought years ago and never used. I remember there being a bag full of what must have been about 20 unopened pairs of nylon stockings, which I confess I had my eye on. As my parents were going to dispose of the stuff at car-boot sales, I decided to put some money in the cash box and take the stockings before they could be sold elsewhere.
But when I went to find them, they were gone.
A week or so later, I saw my father looking through his overnight bag (he sometimes worked away from home for a few days), and I caught a glimpse of one of the packets of stockings, which kind of brought a smile to my face.
A couple of weeks later, I found the bag of unopened packets hidden away in a cupboard.
Needless to say, the bag was a few pairs lighter afterwards. After all, he wasn't going to question me about something that would reveal his own little secret.
In this case, it was evidently "like father, like son", but I doubt whether it's an inherited trait.

[JoanneNY]

Kenita, welcome to the forum. I asked a similar question on one of my first posts here, back in March, I believe. It was my question asked, when my son came out to me and i took a deep breath and said, that's OK with me, I dress also.....We now have a good and clear understanding of who we are. You may want to fish back to that thread and read the comments, it was to me, a positive experience.
Joanne

[char GG]

Harriettes,
I'm going to go a little off topic here and offer my condolences for the death of your son.

I really don't have an opinion about the inherited nature of cross dressing. I guess unless everyone is/or has been out of the closet, there will not be an accurate accounting of cross dressing as a family trait.

[Jodie_Lynn]

One has to wonder why homosexuality and transgenderism even exist. Two gay men can't have children, and neither can two gay women. Since being gay or transgender is frowned on but most societies, past and present, How do gay and trans men and women survive? How do they pass their genes on to future generations? Why are they not killed and their "defective" DNA eliminated from mankind? Is there any value in society that would allow gay and transgender people to perpetuate the genes?

wow. I mean, really, wow.

Please take a few moments to reflect on what you wrote, and then tell me that you honestly have no idea how gay and/or transgendered people have survived through the millennia.

[nvlady]

I am firmly on the side of inherited, not so much crossdressing or transgenderism passing down from one generation to the next, but I think there is a gene that goes goofy and can cause a person to be gay, or bi, or a fetish crossdresser, or loves to wear the clothes and go out but would never transition, or must transition, all because of a goofy gene.

[abbiedrake]

I can't speak to the heritability of crossdressing. But I have this...
Around age 10 maybe, my mother, sister and I returned early from a cinema visit to see a woman coming down the stairs
Stay put, us kids were ordered as my mother legged it up the stairs after my hastily retreating father.
Nothing was ever said.
Then as a teen I found, under a loose floorboard a bag of lingerie that had been, ahem, 'enjoyed'.
Suffice to say I wasn't bringing that one up.

So imagine my surprise to find myself here at age 47?
I cut all ties with my family 12 years ago but you better believe in the 18 months since I started dressing I've chuckled at the thought of asking my father out for a pint, dressed, and saying 'well...?!'
Heh

[Kenita]

Kenita, I'm presuming you are Japanese. Your English is excellent! Are you now living in Tokyo? If yes, is being trans there and open life style and accepted?

I am from Northern California. Wife is Japanese. Work US/Japan. Primary home is now Hawaii. But can be found around US and Asia any month.

I would say, Tokyo is big enough that you have almost everything. A few notable studios for transformations. Once saw an old man dressed as a school girl. My first night out was when my wife and Kenita went for a walk on Halloween. Generally there are a lot fewer cultural/religious inhibitions compared to US, even though social interactions are highly structured. But I am escentially closeted and not out to the public due to professional conservatism.

[Beverley Sims]

I would have said no to the inheritance theory, but after reading some of the replies here...... I have doubts. :-)

[ambigendrous]

Is the human species genetically predisposed to wearing clothes at all? We are born naked, and immediately wrapped in a blanket, but our clothing choices seem to be more of a societal practice that a genetic leaning. There may be a genetic predisposition toward gender expression, which can manifest itself in the desire, or even need, to wear certain clothing, but I wonder if it's the need to wear the clothes, or the gender "alignment" that is the genetic issue.

[abbiedrake]

Clothing itself couldn't be genetically determined but our gender signalling, our semiotics could be.
A bit like the theory that female human breasts are up front and proud to resemble buttocks to invite sexual attention from males. All because we started walking on 2 legs.
I dunno though. I've shared my anecdotes about my father (2nd 'mother' lol). But unlike many, if not most, I felt no or little propensity for women's clothing growing up.
IF it were genetic I'd feel like that put us CDs more comfortably in the Trans category than some currently like. You know, those who wonder if we belong in LGBT at all.
And Kenita, it was most remiss of me in my earlier post but please accept my condolences for you after your loss. My wife (Wifeling GG) lost her mother in late Feb. So you'll be close in our thoughts, if not prayer, heathens that we are.

[Stephanie47]

What genes are specific to females alone other than what's found on the X chromosome? Supposedly the entire human genome has been mapped out.


I "Googled" the numbers of genes; 19,000-20,000. That probably does not include aberrations in specific genes. I hesitate to call an aberration a defect such as a defective genes which can cause illness. Otherwise someone would clamor for research to find a cure. Labor Day telethon anyone? Maybe then the non accepting population would have to accept everyone based upon ADA guidelines?

My wife's female cousin has a genetic daughter who has always identified as a boy/man since birth. She is finally transitioning to a male. Genetic mutations in the gene pool? Mutations caused in the womb? It could just be as simple as all these are natural and intended by a creator/nature.