Why The Least Accepted ???

[deebra]

For a male to dress in female clothes this is the least understood and accepted of any of the behaviors that are different from majority male/female heterosexual relationship. Homosexual, bisexual, lesbian sexual, asexual, and others are just accepted or tolerated by society but still not MtF crossdressing. It should be accepted sooner than the others because it is just clothes how someone wants to dress. Unlike the others it does not involve sex between two people. It should be the easiest for folks to accept. Like George Washington a guy likes to wear ruffled and silky shirts just like women today but not O.K. If only society could understand how nice and right it feels for a CD to wear girl clothes, he likes feminity not masculinity and he also (like women) doesn't like violent sports. Why is seeing a guy in girl clothes so repulsive, negative and so bad where some would like to fight and hurt him. Ever see any male to female transformations / makeovers, most go from average guy to beautiful woman. If you wanted to look your best and a CD why wouldn't you choose girl? Why should anyone reject you, after all women put on tons of extras to look their best, what you see in women isn't exactly what you are getting. Just wondering why and I know we are a very small percentage but we hurt no one, why the least accepted?

[Robertacd]

Because society values men over women. Men are strong and powerful, men are the providers and protectors, men are the leaders and owners.

So people stuck in those ancient ways can't understand why a "man" would want to be anything "less than a man".

[phili]

To add to that, I think the underlying sociobiology from millions of years of evolution is that males are bigger and stronger as a general rule, and tend to be sexually predatory/competitive-hence other males are needed to ward them off - as well as do all the other necessary things to protect the family whilst the females are limited in range of activity by pregnancy and nursing babies.

As a woman, I really want there to be men fully attentive to this so I can do what I want to do. I think that is the bottom line. Someone has to be the man.

I understand this, and I think a compromise solution is a good one. As a male, I learned there is an unspoken bargain- women get to adorn themselves for us men, and we get to enjoy them and dominate them. However, we have to be attentive to their needs enough so we don't have to constantly find new females, and can take pleasure in having kids we know. But all this is hard to do while curtailing our emotions so we can focus on doing the heavy lifting, levee repairs, and go get killed in wars.

I didn't like the bargain, and I always wanted to adorn myself some of the time, so that when I got killed I would have lived! It is certainly true that the majority of CDs will pick up our job of protector when needed, and so the resistance to letting us crossdress is not justified by the fear. I think we contribute to the problem by acting as if the fear is legitimate and hiding, rather than going out and proving the point by rising to the necessary occasions even when in a dress.

[Jean 103]

I don't think that is true.
What is your definition?

I would say that I am accepted the same as the rest.

The big difference is, with me is easy to see that this is me. With a gay person it is not so obvious.

I’m out and live in the real world. I have had gay people come up to me, tell me about their live and make the comment that I’m like so brave for being out and not hiding, basically.

If you are wanting the average GUY to look at a TG person and think she (MTF) is pretty I would like to date her, not going to happen.

Same GUY, we meet, He is like” Hi Jean how have you been.” This happens all the time, as I have real friends.

What I have found is it not so much the world, it is me that needs accept all this. I know that this sounds funny but it is true. If I were to bring something like this up with my friends. They would just roll their eyes (mostly GGs), say something like really Jean I don’t see it.

You see I have become “just Jean” part of a community. I didn’t plan any of this, and I didn’t know that I was doing, it just happened.

[Beverley Sims]

I tend to agree, it's like why cant men wear dresses in a different guise.

I tend not to ask why, I just do it. :-)

[Gillian Gigs]

If you really want to understand why CD'ing is not accepted, then go to those who don't embrace the life style. On this site you are preaching to the choir. Write up a survey and go into several malls, or onto street corners, and get people to fill out your survey. Then you may get a clearer picture as to why CD'ing is not accepted by the general public. Your questions here start to wear thin after awhile. All of the answers that I usually see to your questions are just repeats from the previous questions that you keep on asking. Don't get me wrong, it is good to ask questions, but not just a rehash of the last question, worded differently. The problem is that to expect different results to the same questions is insanity.

[Angie G]

Because I'm cd and I never win. :hugs:
Angie

[Tracii G]

I have to agree with Gillian.
I think you would need to ask those people not us.
Survey in a mall is not a bad idea do it in guy mode then in girl mode and see how the answers differ.

[Hogrom]

And what if, instead of asking the same question, you should put this aside and take the courage to step foward ?


It's important to think. But you need sometimes to put this aside and act. Because if not, you will NEVER be able to do what you want.


If I didn't act and always wondering the same question, I would never be able to crossdress (almost) whenever I want and towards my friends. Now I can assume freely my life as a man who enjoy sometimes feminines things. I don't mind if my voice is manly. I'm not concerned to have 0 fake boobs. What I do, I do for myself.

You want the society to think another way about crossdressing ? Then, go outside fully dressed and show you are happy to be a crossdresser. Show them we are no different or no monster. I always get some compliments with this attitude :battingeyelashes:
Looking like a woman is not a shame and most importantly : We have one life.


If I'm alone all my life, fine, be that way. At least, I finally "love" myself, which I rarely did in the past.

Kiss :)

[Teresa]

Deebra,
If it were just the clothes I wouldn't be doing it , surely by now you see the deeper needs behind Cding .

I get more confused by your threads , you tell us you go out and look great in your words but sadly still no pictures and yet you still bring the subject up of all the negatives associated with it .

To be totally honest I don't get any negative responses .

[josie_S]

I have to agree with Gillian.


I'm with Gillian too. And Tracii, Teresa, Hogrom, Kelly, and Micki...:straightface:

[Tracii G]

It makes me wonder deebra you say you go out dressed for the world to see yet you won't post a pic here out of fear someone you know might see you.Not much logic in that is there?
It seems you are always complaining about the same thing over and over but don't have the fortitude to fix your situation.
Blaming others in society for the way things are and you doing nothing to change perceptions.

[Macey]

Phili is onto it, I think. Gender roles go back as far as the hunter gatherers and a few decades of social revolution doesn't overcome a million years of human evolution so easily. That's the 'bad' news.

The 'good' news is that human also come in infinite varieties, physically, emotionally, spiritually, expressively, ad infinitum. Not accepted in one group? Perhaps in most groups? Try going to an Eagles game in Philadelphia wearing a Giants jersey, that's downright dangerous! But there are people in this world that can and will understand you. There are romantic interests that will understand you, though they may seem difficult to find. Let the waters become still within yourself, give up the war with the rest of society,and live. Live out loud. Live the best you that you want to be. Compromise when you must, stand firm when you can, and love.

Love yourself. Love the rest of the world. Remember the innate dignity that you possess that no one can take away from you. Recognize that dignity within every person, even when they themselves have forgotten it.

[Jodie_Lynn]

>>SNIP<< Why is seeing a guy in girl clothes so repulsive, negative and so bad where some would like to fight and hurt him. >>SNIP<<

NOTE: The following statements are based solely on my thoughts on the matter, over a period of years. I have no clinical data to back up these statements.
Basically, your guess is as good as mine. Enjoy!

A - Males who have ANY insecurities about their sexuality will see a TG/CD as a threat, especially if said male became even the littlest bit aroused.
I have hetero male friends who have almost became violent when a gay man 'hit on them', so the animosity isn't reserved for TG/CD people.

B - Some males get 'taken in' by extremely beautiful "traps", those young crossdressers who are blessed with slender, petite frames. This feeds into category "A".
A lot of guys seem to know "a friend of a friend, who knew a guy..." that got 'tricked' into bed by "one of those sheee males", so the prevailing notion is that CD/TG people are out to fool unsuspecting men into having carnal relations.
Because, as we all know, if you wear panties and a skirt, you must be gay, right? ;)

C - Since most societies place the male at the very top of the food chain, there is confusion as to why a man would want to 'handicap' himself by presenting as, or (HORRORS!!) actually wanting to BE a female.
Oddly enough, as much as people try to claim there is no gender bias in the workplace, or society, this tends to highlight the disparity. "Better to be an ineffectual MAN, than a helpless WOMAN!" seems to be the rational behind this thought. Look at the fantasy fiction of "forced feminization". The absolutely worst fate to befall a man or boy would be to be 'forced' into girly clothes and do 'women's work'.

D - SOME, and I must emphasis "SOME", women may see us as a threat to their territory or their safety.
This threat could be expressed in many attitudes, from "Those perverts just want to get into the Ladies loo to look up my skirt! or molest my daughter!" to "Oh great, now I not only have to worry about GG competition, but those "girls" too" and everything in between. Add in the confusion of why the "dominant gender" would want to take second place in the pecking order, and you have an idea of why we are misunderstood.

E - Lack of knowledge, understanding, or exposure to real CD/TG people. Let's face facts; there are many people out there in the world who have no exposure to actual CD/TG people. They get their information from TV, the news, social media, and plain old gossip. People tend to believe what they hear, from trusted sources. Don't confuse them with the facts, they've already made up their minds. "Why, just look at those freaks, pretending to be women on 'Jerry Springer', Ethel, I tell ya, these people are sickos!"


I have been out and about, locally for a little over 2 and a half years now. The absolute worst experience I have had, in all that time, is being "sir'd" while en femme, twice by sales clerks.

Everywhere else I have gone, I have met nothing but acceptance, or at least tolerance, by the general public. So Deebra, I yet again fail to see the validity of your claims.
Perhaps, instead of a general complaint about the unfairness of it all, if you gave some concrete examples of what you are talking about, it might actually prove productive.

Otherwise, so sorry, I have no tears for your pity party.

[sometimes_miss]

Why is seeing a guy in girl clothes so repulsive, negative and so bad where some would like to fight and hurt him.
Because in our societies, males have always been responsible for the protection of everyone in it. Being female was always considered a physically weaker and less likely able to defend the group. So males were the ones to go into battle. Any male who behaved or dress as a female, was considered suspect for not being able to hold up to his end of responsibility, and was shamed for it by everyone else. Other males, knowing that every male child was expected to toe the line and never, ever dress or behave as a female, are often terrified that they, too, might not be the 'all masculine' man, because they have thoughts that they believe aren't in line with being that total masculine man. So they hate that the male who behaves that way even exists, because then he must fear that it, not being totally masculine, might just happen to him, too. So he feels the need to eliminate any other males who don't, in his mind, measure up to what he thinks a man must be.

Women depend on the men in her society to also live up to the responsibility of protecting the women and children. So seeing a man embracing something that he's not supposed to, to her may indicate that he may also not accept the responsibility to protect her and her children when such a time may come. So women don't like it either.

There you go. It's not as simple as that all the time, but it is, most of the time.

[Amelie]

I think I lucked out with the path I took, well it seemed to work for me.

I was a punk when I started out so the clothes didn't change much. Also beng punk we didn't look for acceptance, we kinda despised the suit and tie crowd and didn't need their kindness. People were staring at me and calling me names before I ever wore a dress so nothing changed much in my life when I became a girl. Now, being a goth I guess people think it's part of being goth the way I dress. Maybe I am hiding being a woman within being a goth, that might make things easier, maybe I cheated a bit. Or after many years I just got use to the name calling. But as Phili's post says, one got to interact with people to show them we are normal. Well, I'm not normal but that's another story.

[MarinaTwelve200]

People still associate CD with HOMOSEXUALITY even though most are not. This likely comes from the "explanation" KIDs are given when they ask what Gay means. "a "gay/Queer" is a boy who thinks he's a girl" ----They get the same thing from their equally ignorant peers, so a male doing anything associated with the opposite sex is automatically deemed "Queer". They grow up never bothering to check it out and many ADULTS STILL subscribe to the kid's definition.---OH, in many cases they now realize that gays are attracted to other guys and have sex with them, but that is just ANOTHER THING Gays do.---- The "want to harm" or "beat up" thing is a factor within certain violent "male subcultures" where being "a man" is very important. They are usually uneducated guys who still subscribe to the kid's definition, so have no clear idea about what "homosexuality" is---And DREAD deep down they might NOT "measure up" to "Manhood " standards.---For many of these guys "how many people you beat up" are "manhood points"----and a supposedly GAY person, like a woman, (who they beat too) is an EASY TARGET---easy manhood points. they make a lot of noise and cussing and attack their victim publicly, so people can se that they are "Real MEN"---so if to say "Look at ME, I am not gay, I HATE them." ---------Yes, sounds silly, but such people exist, and are the biggest threat to TG folks.

[Stephanie47]

I have to add another comment to Jodie Lynn's list.

F- Intolerance towards gays, lesbians, transsexuals and cross dressing men.

[Jodie_Lynn]

Thanks Stephanie, I knew I was forgetting something!

[Maid_Marion]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley
It may be related to the Uncanny Valley effect. If you aren't close enough to pass it triggers a negative reaction or revulsion.

I think short guys run into this problem. Which is why they have so much trouble dating.

I'm 5'3" I been finding that a I appear more feminine, or closer to one of the two binaries, I have a much easier time in social situations.
My curly hair now falls well below my shoulders. I've exercised my waist down to 25 inches just below the ribs, and I now wear tight and
colorful tops. Often with layers to stay warm at the office.

It helps that gays and lesbians in my social circles have been out for at least thirty years.

[Tracii G]

Has anyone one given a thought that maybe deebra has a homophobic streak running thru her and she has a hard time justifying what she is doing?

[Jodie_Lynn]

Tracii, the thought has occurred that she is full of self-loathing because what is does is "deviant", and is projecting her self image onto the general populace.

But I know very little about the OP, except what she indirectly presents via her posts.

That is the problem with dealing with on-line personae, we can only gauge by what they present.

[Nikki A.]

I guess the first question is why worry about what others think. Be yourself and enjoy it and don't worry about society

[suzanne]

I think Jean's answer has a lot of truth to it. She dresses the way she feels like, and does her thing in a matter-of-fact way that tells the world "This is no big deal". The people who meet her pick up on that vibe and return it in the same No Big Deal way. I think you can only accomplish that if your self-acceptance is total.

It's the way I try to present. I don't know how effective I am relative to Jean, but I've gotten quite a few compliments from randoms, mostly women, but there have been men as well. The comments are not about how well I pass for a woman, because I'm not trying to, but about my shoes or my outfit and how they think what I'm doing is cool. It gives the kind of lift that makes me want to get out more and more.

[Di]

deebra,
I wonder if it’s the area you live in? I do not know anything about Virginia Beach.
I know where Sherlyn and I lived we did not find that at all. But with Sherlyn it was not just clothing it was who she was.
We kinda just went everywhere.
So maybe it’s your area?
Just remember you are not doing anything wrong and hold your head high.

[phili]

in deebra's defense- I don't think it useful to speculate on people's motives here- it is guesswork and criticizing them is discouraging to sharing.

The forum is very repetitive in terms of the types of posts, and this particular question comes up all the time. it comes up over and over because we CDs know deep in our hearts that it is not a problem, yet everyone around us [IRL not here on the forum] seems to be saying it is one. especially the parental authority figures deep in our past who still hold sway over us in so many ways.

Those of us who break out of the closet and just do it anyway find out it really isn't a big problem most of the time. But if you can't get closer to the door of your closet you are like a bird in a cage hopping around and wanting out, and wondering why you are locked in. Encouraging the bird to notice the lock is open, to push open the door and come out, is a whole lot more friendly and might even help them break the cycle of wishing and fearful retreat.

[Jodie_Lynn]

>>SNIP<<
The forum is very repetitive in terms of the types of posts, and this particular question comes up all the time. it comes up over and over because we CDs know deep in our hearts that it is not a problem, yet everyone around us [IRL not here on the forum] seems to be saying it is one. especially the parental authority figures deep in our past who still hold sway over us in so many ways.

>>SNIP<<

Mods, I know that this is quoting the person directly above, but this is the point I wish to address, please don't delete, otherwise my response will make no sense!

philli, in my experience, it isn't 'the people around us', but ourselves that create the problem.

If one goes out, dressed, yet acts like a guilty party, then yes, they will draw attention, and yes, suspicion.

If one goes to the market, in an evening gown, stripper heels, and a tiara, yes, one will draw attention to oneself. See above for the result.

If one feels guilty, while presenting as the opposite gender; if one feels awkward in one's presentation, then yes, one will draw attention and criticism. See above for the result

If one enters a restroom, acting like an intruder, then yes, one draws attention to ones self. Again, see above.

BUT, if one acts like they belong; if one acts like they are who they are presenting as; if one doesn't look at everyone else with prejudicial eyes, and just 'is', then many of these problems disappear.

is this a golden rule? No, there will always be those that are opposed to our existence.
But, the trick is to give "THEM" as little ammunition as possible.

[abbiedrake]

Gay and lesbian people, and now, increasingly, TG people are more easily accepted because the perception, finally, is that these things are not choices. CDing is still very much seen as a choice us men make. How many of us have SOs who wish we'd simply choose to stick to male attire? We're less aceepted because we're perceived to be making a choice to reject conformity. We know differently but even we frequently struggle with articulating why it should matter since it's 'just clothes'.

I would also agree with Jean about issues of visibility.

And that's before we get onto the common perception of CDing being a fetish. It'd be the same as saying 'why do gimps get a hard time in public?'. Well, because most consider matters of sexuality something for behind closed doors. Expecting the public to understand those of us for whom CDing isn't a fetish is too fine a distinction for many.

@roberta I can't wholeheartedly agree that men are more valued than women. It's just not that simple. Men do more massively many more of the dangerous jobs. Clearly our health isn't particularly valued otherwise prostate cancer wouldn't be so woefully underfunded. Likewise our mental health. When male suicide outstrips female 3-1 on both sides of the Atlantic something is wrong.
Men are horrendously undervalued as caregivers also. How 'optional: are fathers now?
This is not, of course, to suggest that there are massive inequalities affecting women. Nor that those most valued by society aren't way too often men. But that isn't the same as saying men are simply more valued. IMHO

[deebra]

Let's stick to the SUBJECT/QUESTION. Read my first and last sentence. To put it bluntly if a man or woman sees a man wearing girl jeans why do they think something is wrong with him, I wear girl jeans because they are thinner, more comfortable, fit my body and I like how I look in them. Why shouldn't they just see them as jeans, my choice. Same place, a man and woman see two women that are clearly lesbians they have no problem with them, same for two men clearly gay, but me wearing embellished girl jeans they do??? And I read all the arguments about protectors, less a man, etc., B.S. on that, we are talking about just clothes and the right to wear what you want without being criticized. My choice to wear what ever style clothes I choose should be accepted in this day and time as just normal period.

Now let me address something else. I do not have to post a pic to put out a subject for discussion, don't assume it's about me. Quite trying to psycho analyze me, you know very little about me and what you think you know is wrong 100%. Tracci I could care less whether you or anybody else is gay or whatever, get over it. Many just can't wait to criticize Deebra but are afraid to post a subject for discussion, discuss the subject, not Deebra.

Suzanne, #24....Very Nice.

[Hogrom]

And that's before we get onto the common perception of CDing being a fetish. It'd be the same as saying 'why do gimps get a hard time in public?'. Well, because most consider matters of sexuality something for behind closed doors. Expecting the public to understand those of us for whom CDing isn't a fetish is too fine a distinction for many.


This is why we must go out and showto the people crossdressing is not a matters of sexuality/fetish. How ? By living, simply.

Sure, it need a lot of courage, but it is worth it :)

[Tracii G]

Deebra what I meant was you have the issue with you wearing womens jeans.Just wear what you want and don't worry about what others think.
In my experience of wearing nothing but womens jeans since 2007 it has not been a problem for me.
Even with my more testosterone driven male friends 99% of them have never said a word or asked if I was wearing womens jeans even if it is obvious I was.
I wear embellished womens jeans a lot of the time and they have only seen me wearing womens jeans the whole time I have know them.They know I am gay too and that has not been a problem.
This group has accepted me as I am and they are primarily very manly men or outdoorsy types some would call them.
My point is what you wear doesn't matter to most people as long as you are a good person.

[Shelly Preston]

To put it bluntly if a man or woman sees a man wearing girl jeans why do they think something is wrong with him, I wear girl jeans because they are thinner, more comfortable, fit my body and I like how I look in them. Why shouldn't they just see them as jeans, my choice. Same place, a man and woman see two women that are clearly lesbians they have no problem with them, same for two men clearly gay, but me wearing embellished girl jeans they do??? And I read all the arguments about protectors, less a man, etc., B.S. on that, we are talking about just clothes and the right to wear what you want without being criticized. My choice to wear what ever style clothes I choose should be accepted in this day and time as just normal period.
The fact is you should be accepted no matter what you wear. However the world does not see things that way depending on where you live.
I remember punk rockers getting abuse for what they wore. This is not new for society. Unfortunately acceptance is not automatic.



Now let me address something else. I do not have to post a pic to put out a subject for discussion, don't assume it's about me. Quite trying to psycho analyze me, you know very little about me and what you think you know is wrong 100%. Tracci I could care less whether you or anybody else is gay or whatever, get over it. Many just can't wait to criticize Deebra but are afraid to post a subject for discussion, discuss the subject, not Deebra.

Suzanne, #24....Very Nice.

Anyone commenting can only judge you on the information provided and yes they can be completely wrong.

[Teresa]

Deebra,
Natuarlly it's your choice whether you post a picture or not, in the past you've admitted you didnt know how but are you now saying you choose not to . Would it not be a whole lot easier if you did and then much of these debates you keep raising would be put to bed .

At the moment we keep getting a contradictory message , you tell us you look great and very convincing and then go on to complain about how bitchy some people are over the clothes you wear .

We all have the right to wear anything we choose but at the same time have to consider the message they put across , Di suggests it might be your location but it often comes down to the personality of the person coupled with the way they present themselves . I thought my new home town would be a tough nut to crack I've been pleasantly surprised .

[Barbara Jo]

The reason is simple.....

Men are considered the strong sex ....the leaders in most societies .
However woman are considered the weaker sex... the followers in societies........ the followers of men .

So, a woman who emulates a man in dress is considered a step up for them.

However, a man emulating a woman in dress is considered a step down for them.
So there must be something wrong with them to choose a "step down" .

[char GG]

No member is required to post a photo. It’s an individual choice.

Deebra, my SO has experienced mostly positive reactions when out dressed. He smiles a lot, is friendly, and engages people in conversations. I hope you will have positive interactions in the future and forget about what others think. Your choice how you want to present yourself.

[abbiedrake]

What Char said.
/thread

[deebra]

Tracci there you go again your first sentence in thread 31, targeting deebra; the post and thread is not about deebra, it's just a question why society doesn't accept a man's right to wear what he wants. Society is wrong on this so I asked the question. It's hard to understand how they have accepted so many changes but not this. Few on here REALLY READ what's in the posts and threads and directly answer the topic. They apparently fast read the post and then give their opinion on not the subject. My post and thread are good, very good as a matter of fact, I stand by them, read them for exactly what they are and answer only THE topic.

[Elizabeth1980]

I have read all of the previous posts in this thread and find the question very interesting. In some cultures crossdressing is acceptable (e.g. Berdache in North American Indians - seen as ‘two-spirit’, and Kathoeys in Thailand - ladyboys), but not in most societies. Why is this? I do not know, but think it is related to the cultures we grow up in.

[Tracii G]

OK deebra I thought maybe the reason you have a hard time understanding this is because you had not accepted yourself.
Sorry I assumed you were talking about how people treat you when you are out and about.
Its an easy mistake to make sometime because a lot of threads deal with how people are treated in public.
I see what you are doing, purposely misspelling my name every time.

[Teresa]

Deebra,
So now you're talking about a generalisation and not you specifically , you confuse the issue by talking about your own presentation whenever you ask a question .

The answer still comes back to how you act and present yourself . Maybe you should look at the question from another angle , if you see a GG dressed in a more provacative way does it not make you take a second look , I could give many examples of what might take a second look , now imagine a man in the same situation of course he will get a second look and possibly more so because he's the wrong gender to dress that way . It's only human nature that we have a tolerance level , outside that we will react ,some more than others .

The question is does the person go out to blend in or integrate as I call it or do they go out to make a statement ? If you wish to make a statement then you have to accept the good and bad reactions . I feel you can try and educate people all you like but people will never understand beyond a certain level .

[Jodie_Lynn]

>>SNIP<<
Just wondering why and I know we are a very small percentage but we hurt no one, why the least accepted?


Perhaps the reason is that we do not fit into neatly labeled boxes.
The types of people you mentioned: Gays, Lesbians, Asexuals, all have to relate to sexual preferences.
A lesbian is still a lesbian, no matter what she wears. The same for gays, and asexuals.

However, a crossdressers presentation may have absolutely zero to do with that persons sexual identity, or preferences.

We have straight, bi, and homosexual crossdressers. We have transgendered men and women who present as their true gender. Transgendered people may also be straight, gay, lesbian, or asexual.

Further, and not to sound condescending or dismissive, we have MIADS, drag queens, drag kings, cosplayers, androgynous, gender fluid, non-binary, and gender queer labels being tossed about to add to the confusion. And the fact that so many of 'our kind', will flip the flick out if they are misgendered, creates a potential for conflict.

For example: A man enters a shop, dressed in female sneakers, jeans, and a top. No make up, no wig, no forms and 2 days growth of beard. The clerk faces a dilemma: address this customer as "Miss"? or "sir"? In today's hair-trigger "I'm offended" atmosphere, there is a 50/50 chance that the clerk will misgender the customer.

The human species prefers to be able to classify each other with neat, tidy labels. "He's a Republican", "She is a Democrat", "They are Muslim", "We are Christian".
It confuses and bewilders people when they cannot slap a convenient, over-simplified label on other people. Now, they actually have to put some effort into figuring out where on the flow chart you fit.

In our society, we don't want to take the time to learn about other people, other ways of thinking, other cultures. It is so much easier to fall back on our preconceived notions of what 'the other' is like.


Me, I am a talker, I will talk to any and everyone, I love to listen to people tell me their viewpoints.

I had a lovely chat with a store clerk one evening, after she commented on my boots. I finally, during the convo, asked her what she thought regarding me, having seen me in both boy & girl modes. She said, "When you come in dressed as a man, I see a man. But when you come in dressed as a woman, I see a woman."

I was pleased to hear that, and awed by her simple acceptance.

So, Deebra, I have to ask, why are your experiences so vastly different to mine?

[abbiedrake]

@jodie You make a good point about the labels. The urge to belong is hardwired into us. It's strength in numbers. It's having more power to acquire.
But belonging is ALWAYS predicated on there being people who are 'other'. And that's when we get conflict.
We're really struggling to ditch the programming that prejudices us. For my any distinction more granular than simple 'HUMAN' is gonna be grounds for conflict.
We've got to transcend it.

[Jodie_Lynn]

@abbie, I agree. The place I work at is very republic dominated, and I do not discuss politics there. When pressed as to which party I belong to, I tell them I am an Anarchistic Monarchist, I want to be King (Queen actually, but they are conservative Republicans), but no one has to listen to me. I just want the crown (and the gown!)
:D

[sometimes_miss]

Has anyone one given a thought that maybe deebra has a homophobic streak running thru her and she has a hard time justifying what she is doing?
I believe that Deebra is just frustrated with her situation in life. It's no surprise, really, because I'm sure a lot of us have moments when we feel burdened by how the world treats us, views us, and all the problems inherent in being a crossdresser, TG or TS person. Although we try to make the best of it, there are still always going to be difficulties which we would not have to deal with if we didn't have these desires to be what society doesn't want us to be. Some days are good, others, terrible. And for some, venting helps.

Vent away, deebra. Most of us understand.