Do you pass as a genetic woman?

[Tracy Irving]

In the thread about having a beard, it has been brought to my attention that a culmination of the reading I have done on the topic of passing is inaccurate.

While I keep reading about how many of us don't pass but rather try to blend in, others believe that most of us do, in fact, pass as women.

I don't think that is true. So, I ask you, gentle reader, this simple question:

Do you 100% pass as a genetic woman when out engaging with the public?

And if you do, please, please, please share your secrets.

[Robertacd]

I have no illusions of passing.

I am a transwoman, I accept that and all I ask is that others accept that too and treat me with the respect and decency they would anyone else.

[Tracii G]

I don't claim to pass but I have had women after talking a few minutes realize that I am not a GG and trans.
Had some know right off and some never figure it out or just don't care either way and don't comment.
So to answer your question we do pass up to a point then upon further scrutiny we don't.

[Teresa]

Tracy,
Please take a read of my thread in the picture section titled , " Where do I start !" . Perhaps it may give you some idea what the RW actually means in context of passing .

I'm making no claims of passing , to me it's more to do with belief in yourself , being comfortable and confident with people but as one GG put it , " Not in our faces !"

If there is any secret I would say forget about labels , people will make their own conclusions and if not they will politely approach the subject , as I found on Sunday while chatting to people .

[Tracy Irving]

Very early, but at zero passers it is shaping up to be the outlier.

Teresa,
I make no illusions about the real world, I live in it. Your paintings look very close to it as well. They are fantastic. As for pricing them, you have materials at ~60-80 pounds? Maybe more / less, don't know prices or connections with discounts you may have across the pond. Then we add in your time. If it a labor of love, and you enjoy the thought of having your work immortalized in public view, I could see dropping the full price 25-40%.

I was recently commissioned to do a 2'x3' piece for a friend. They insist on paying something for my time so I cut the price in half. I hope they are happy.

[sara66]

I only pass at 50' to a blind person. When you go out just act like you belong. The best thing, as you said is to blend. Nothing outrageous unless your clubbing. Most people don't care or even notice if it doesn't affect the directly.

Sara

[Michellebej]

I do sometimes. How often people are being polite, I can't say.

What I can say is that I work as a woman in my own business. After years of dealing with the public on a daily basis, I have developed a confidence that helps immensely. I don't think about it anymore. At least when I am in familiar settings. I think that is a key. Being natural. Which is not something that you can "make" happen. By its very nature.

At work I had a woman who has been a customer for years recently listen in on a phone conversation when my out of state child called in an emergency. I had to shift voices and when the call was over I looked at her and she said "I never knew..." Perhaps a half dozen times I have had someone remark about my gender. Oth my business partner is a GG and she has been identified as a male about the same number of times. To be fair that was after a bad episode when a child kept pointing at me and said "that's a wig...that's a wig" and the father made some very mean homophobic remarks and stormed out. For a brief period people would wander in and try to figure out which of us was "the tranny". More often than not it was the short haired very tall GG in Jeans and a blouse rather than the long haired woman in a dress. It caused more than few moments of consternation.

If you think about it. Most of us know a GG who has male facial features, who may give you pause but never really gets "made" as a man. Many of us know women that have voices in a "mans" range, but who are rarely taken as men; face to face.

I think a large part of it is like acting. Be the part. If you are a woman in your head and ACT like a woman, walk like a woman, hold yourself like a woman and above all do it without thinking; then that goes a long way to passing. The same with your voice, it is not so much the range, it is how you speak, what you say, your word structure, the way you subconsciously move up and down in pitch the way a woman does. Men tend to be monotoned. Above all practice it so much that you dont' think about it. It just is.

[Sallee]

Some days with some people. Other days not so much. I was mistaken for a GG at a support group meeting The speaker thought I was one of the wives. My wig lady mistook me for a GG once. I delivered the wig in drab and picked it up a few day latter and she said she didn't thinkshe had a wig for me to pick up until I pointed it out. She said she had no idea I wasn't what I appeared as.
Other times I have been read by a blind man at night. I wish I new what the trick was to 100% I'll say I pass 50 to 60% of the time

[Micki_Finn]

There isn’t an easy answer to this because there are many levels of interaction. The hostess at the restaurant probably won’t clock me, but the waiter I have a detailed interaction with probably will.

Different people also have different levels of awareness. Some people may notice some may not, so I don’t think anyone can say that they pass 100% of the time (excepting trans women from this conversation). As someone who basically can pass in most situations, the biggest “secrets” are 1) makeup. Less is NOT more when it comes to transforming your face into something feminine, and 2) genetics. Some of us have more feminine features to start.

[Ceera]

100%? No, as there are always going to be some people who know what ‘tells’ to look for, or slip-ups that can be made on my part. But very close to 100%, for me. Most of my social life has been as a woman since late 2014. In August 2018, I left my male identity behind, and as of March of 2019, I am legally female, though I am still in the waiting queues to get both top and bottom surgery. I am 5”10” tall, 225 pounds US weight, and my shoulders are wide enough that I wear size 18-20 or 2X blouses, while wearing size 14-16 or Large pants and skirts. My male voice had a singing range from Bass to High Tenor, usually with a speaking voice in the deep baritone range. And yet, I do pass...

I have passed 100% while partying all day at close quarters with a group of over a dozen people who were 90% strangers to me, while I was in a skimpy bikini swimsuit. I routinely pass wherever I go, whoever I interact with. I can chat casually with strangers, and usually not have them raise an eyebrow or treat me as anything but female. Only on occasion, when my voice slips, or I am not dressed in a particularly feminine manner, do a few people address me as a male. But that happens less often for me than the reverse happens to some of my more butch, cisgender, lesbian lady friends - where people assume they are male, because they have masculine traits, even though they are cisgender women and not trying to pass as males.

My secrets?

First, and strongest, is simply an accident of birth. I am fortunate enough to have fairly androgynous and youthful facial features. I will freely admit that I am ‘one of the lucky ones’ among us, who is close enough in facial structure and to the tall end of female norms to pass convincingly. Yes, I deliberately learned how to use wigs and makeup to emphasize a natural female appearance. But that would not get me as far as it does, if my face wasn’t already close to female norms.

Second, attitude. My daughter observed, very early on in my outings in public as a woman, that I am clearly comfortable and confident in my feminine role. I ‘own it’, with a clearly carefree attitude that I ‘belong here’, as if I had always been female. She has watched me, both from a distance and from up close, as I have shopped in malls, dined in restaurants, socialized in bars... and she says my actions and attitude are clearly being read as female by virtually everyone I interact with or pass within sight of. Part of that is my acting ability. I carefully observe women I see, and mimic body movement, speech patterns, and other visual and auditory cues. But mostly, it comes from accepting the female aspect in my mind, and allowing ‘her’ to direct my actions and responses to the world around me. I simply behave like the confident, independent woman that I am.

Third is voice. I know most cross dressers, and even most transgender women, do little to nothing to change their voice. Some here insist it is not possible to sufficiently feminize a male voice so you can pass. Yet I do it every day - even well over half the time when talking over the phone! I downloaded two audio CD lesson sets that I ordered on line, on the subject of feminizing the male voice. I also studied voice changing tips from a very skillful trans youtube presenter, who unfortunately took down their site after they fully transitioned. I used an electronic pitch meter, like you use to tune a musical instrument, to get objective measurement of how I was altering the pitch of my voice. Part of that training was being aware of the inflections and speech patterns women tend to use, and how that differs from male speaking. After four months of working with those resources, I could speak to strangers as a woman, and not have them looking for the male ventriloquist who was playing a joke on them by projecting their deep voice so it seemed to be coming from the woman before them. It is instinctive, now. It is effective enough that people who have known me only as a woman for several years, and who have only heard my ‘girl voice’, literally have their jaws drop in disbelief when I use my old male voice near them. I have been doing it long enough and well enough that it now takes a conscious effort on my part, or me being extremely exhausted, for me to slip back to a male voice! My voice could still improve, but it is pretty good.

Proper padding and clothes help, a lot. I wear very good quality solid silicone gel breast forms, which feel real when I hug someone, and look and move like real breasts when I move, walk, or dance. I wear a 40-C or 40-D bra with my breast forms, and rarely go for anything larger. I add some padding to the sides of my hips, to reduce the difference between my hips and shoulders. I wear blouse and skirt pairings, selecting colors and styles which reduce how ‘top heavy’ I look.

I learned to do a fairly minimal, natural looking makeup, and to build from there, when going out nightclubbing or doing other activities where a cisgender woman would use more makeup than their daytime look. I learned to use blush and bronzer to emphasize my cheekbones and de-emphasize my jaw line. I choose hairstyles which frame my face with wavy, longer hair, complementing the feminine facial look.

Certainly, even with all that, some people still misgender me on occasion. Some clearly do know I am trans, but accept me anyway as a woman. Not everyone can get my results. Some can do far better than me. But it is more achievable than you might think.

[carhill2mn]

Based upon comments by genetic women and others, I apparently do pass. I have had one-on-one conversations with genetic women who have told others that they had no idea I was not a genetic woman. The woman who has done my nails for years talks to me and asks questions as if I were a genetic woman.

My "secret"? Partly genetics, partly learning the mannerisms and speech patterns of women, partly dressing and doing my makeup appropriately and always acting as a lady.

[Seana Summer]

No, I don't pass as a GG, not even close. I know Men who could pass as a GG, but I am not one.

[joank]

Not even close (in my mind) but I was mistaken once at a Party Supply store until I revealed myself to the checkout girl. The lady behind me said she would never have known if I hadn't said something. That made my day.

[Tracy Ann]

Not even if my life depended on it :(

[Stephanie Julianna]

After all these years I never truly have a clue. I know on occasion I have been mistaken for a gg when dressed and even have surprised some when I have told them I am not transitioned. But unless someone actually challenged my persona I just plod through the day as I see fit, in Glam or Drab. I truly don't care anymore.

[Angela Marie]

It's hard to be objective about ones self. I don't think I can pass but many women have told me I do. I'll assume they are right lol.

[Allisa]

NO I do not.

[Lana Mae]

I am not sure but I seriously doubt it! My counselor seems to think I do and she does not lie to me! But then again, it might just be her opinion! I would say no! Hugs Lana Mae

[docrobbysherry]

I don't "dress to blend". I try to present as an attractive, younger woman. So, cannot normally pass.:thumbsdn:

However, a few times at non T venues around Halloween, wearing sexy costumes, I HAVE passed! Until it came to conversations. Then, I was made. The looks on some guy's faces when they heard my voice was PRICELESS!:eek:

When u pass, you'll know it! Because when people believe, without a doubt, u r a female? They treat u very differently than if u r a trans!:heehee:

[Princess Chantal]

No I do not believe that I pass as a genetic female and I don’t wish to. As for blending, nope I am not going to wear pyjama bottoms or leggings to blend in with the shoppers at Walmart or to any other supermarket!

[Valery L]

Sometimes I pass. After meeting many times with a guy I told him that I was not a woman. He didn't know and stopped flirting with me since then.

[Rachael Leigh]

I will never claim to pass, however when I wear my wig, which isn’t as often as I use to when out I can blend better and do
receive the proper pronouns most times as I did when out shopping last week.
But here’s the thing, since I’ve found confidence in going out in my natural hair and going about my business I’ve found

I just don’t care, I’m me and don’t think I’ve ever had a nasty look that I’ve noticed and my interactions have all been pleasant

[CarlaWestin]

Exactly how rigorous is this inspection going to be? Under real close scrutiny, Dear Watson, I appear to be, well, male. Suspiciously wearing all female attire and accoutrements! How peculiar.
Bend to blend. In an occasional photographic moment, I appear to pass. The rest is just blendy or obvious CD fun!

[Marcia Blue]

I have to say I do not pass most of the time. I have been mistaken as a GG on occasion.

[xEvelyn]

Almost certainly not, although I don't go around asking people either. It would probably help if I just wore jeans or leggings with sneakers but where is the fun in that?

[Sometimes Steffi]

I think I pass at 20 feet in the dark of night most of the time. I think I hardly ever pass at 10 feet in bright light. But, it's hard to tell. Most men won't even look at me because they are afraid of "catching" what I have. Many GGs give me or return a girl smile to me. I don't know if that means (1) I know you're a guy, but I give you credit for a good try or (2) it's the secret smile between two girls (similar to the head nod between two guys).

[Lux]

When I was younger in high school and college, I could easily pass as I dressed modestly and similarly to other young girls. I would even go to lectures and class in college dressed as a girl. As I’ve gotten older, I am definitely dressing more provocatively in high heels and heavy make up that definitely gives me away. For me, it’s about having fun and wearing sexy clothes and make up. I usually only go out with my wife on weekend nights to restaurant/bars and then to a club to dance. That’s my thing. And I don’t really try to blend conservatively in the regular daytime crowd. Too much of a vampire. :)

[DanielleDubois]

There is an old saying "Self praise is no recommendation" and it is my personal opinion the reflection we see in the mirror or our photos is not the true representation of how others see us in the real world where they can instantly observe us from different angles. It could be my CD radar but even with very attractive and feminine crossdressers ( and there are many on this forum) I think there are very few amongst us who can pass close scrutiny. Just because someone in the public doesn't say something doesn't mean they haven't noticed as the majority of the public are inherently polite. However, as many have said here before, going out if you enjoy it is more important than passing 100%. Of course, you can take all of my opinion with a big grain of salt since Danielle is a strictly stay at home girl. :)

[AngelaYVR]

I think the upshot is that a lot of us have passed on occasion, mostly due to lack of close scrutiny. In which case it’s more of a distance/attentiveness thing really. On a good day I’ve got a 3 to 5 foot event horizon inside of which people know or have become confused.

I’m 6’ tall and usually dress in what I call my modern retro style: feminine and fitted outfits emphasizing my figure. Always heels. And I’m good with my makeup skills. Which means I attract eyeballs. If I were 5’7” and wore jeans? Yeah, I’d probably [still erroneously] believe I passed 99% of the time. But I’ll pick looking stylish over passing any day. What a waste of a day to blend and still be clocked!

[dee anne]

I pass as ME all the time!

[MonicaPVD]

Breaking news: If you believe that you pass, and you are confident as a result, then you pass. The rest of the world will see what you project. If you are a 6ft tall, broad shoulders and square jaw kind woman exuding confidence, you're good. If you are 5'3, slender and beautiful and you're acting all paranoid or self conscious, people who pay attention will determine that there's something off about you. Love yourself and don't worry about what others may think.

[SaraLin]

As much as I wish I could, for the me the answer is "NO"

But I'm remembering a member of a group I attended a while ago. She was beautiful and I could have easily believed that she was the SO of one of the members, until I heard (her) wife complaining about (him) leaving false eyelashes all over the place.

I was SO-O-O-O jealous!
I never did, but I wanted to tell her "If I could look that good, I'd never be seen as male again."
so - I'd say that yes, it is possible for some of us to achieve the magical "pass" threshold.
I just wish I was one of them.:sad:

[Teresa]

Tracy,
Perhaps I should PM you about the technical details of the paintings and costings .

The question is did my account of that week give you a better insight into the , " Passing , Acceptance " situation ?

Is there a secret , or just a case of just going out there and doing it ?

Micki,
I don't agree with the more / less argument , for me learning what less means was the way to go , I still feel I'm a little OTT but most tell me it's about right .

[alwayshave]

Tracy, Not a chance. I try, but I'm 6'2, 250 pounds. I'm a line backer in a dress.

[Jillian Faith]

Some days with some people. Other days not so much.......Other times I have been read by a blind man at night. I wish I new what the trick was to 100% I'll say I pass 50 to 60% of the time



There isn’t an easy answer to this because there are many levels of interaction. The hostess at the restaurant probably won’t clock me, but the waiter I have a detailed interaction with probably will.

Different people also have different levels of awareness. Some people may notice some may not, so I don’t think anyone can say that they pass 100% of the time (excepting trans women from this conversation). As someone who basically can pass in most situations, the biggest “secrets” are 1) makeup. Less is NOT more when it comes to transforming your face into something feminine, and 2) genetics. Some of us have more feminine features to start.

I agree with Sallee and Micki. I do not pass anywhere near 100% of the time and I wish I knew what I was doing right/different when I do pass. Micki may be on to something talking about "Different people also have different levels of awareness." I'm a people watcher,my wife on the other hand just goes about her business in her own world. I've often made a comment to her when out in public about someone or something and my wife's response is "oh I didn't notice."

[NancySue]

I don’t think I do, but I’ve never stopped anyone to ask. I had one very positive experience at Payless Shoes. It wasn’t until I checked out did the SA know. I couldn’t disguise my voice. She was very nice and complementary especially about my makeup, so we chatted a little. Around this neighborhood, the key is to blend in...which is to dress very plainly...capris, top sandals, little, if any, makeup, etc. Heels, hose, dresses, too much makeup (my favorites) are definitely tip-offs. When I go out, it’s usually after dark, for drives, or a walk in a mall.

[Ressie]

The short answer is no, of course not. My face is more fem than the average guy and I have very little body hair. My facial hair is also mostly fair so I don't need lots of beard cover makeup. My height is under 5'6". I have mediocre skills at applying makeup, breast forms and an assortment of wigs but that's not enough.

I haven't done anything to transition. No HRT, no facial surgery or other surgeries, no electrolysis or laser treatments etc. Those that have been in transition for a few years are more likely to be completely passable. I've seen some amazing transformations on facebook!

I find it amusing how many times I've seen CDs describe their selves as passable. Compared to what? I'm only passable at night from a looong distance.

[Taylor186]

Do you 100% pass as a genetic woman when out engaging with the public?

100%? Not a chance. I can think of twice in 30 years of going out that someone, from a distance, in dim light, mistook me for a woman. If 'engaging' means 'talking with' it would not have happened twice.

[docrobbysherry]

Breaking news: If you believe that you pass, and you are confident as a result, then you pass. The rest of the world will see what you project. If you are a 6ft tall, broad shoulders and square jaw kind woman exuding confidence, you're good. If you are 5'3, slender and beautiful and you're acting all paranoid or self conscious, people who pay attention will determine that there's something off about you. Love yourself and don't worry about what others may think.

Mmmmmm, no! It's nice to go out relaxed and confidently. But, you're confusing acceptance with passing, Monica. Just because folks treat u nice, don't laff and point at u, doesn't mean you've passed and they think you're a GG.:battingeyelashes:

And, believing u pass is like me believing I'm Marilyn Monroe. (See my avatar). It doesn't make it so!:daydreaming:

[Christie ann]

DO I pass, no way. Can I walk through a store/ museum/ coffee shop with no issues, yes. Most people’s brains are in auto pilot. There eyes see a person in a skirt with long hair and a chest and they place her in the female category and life goes on. If you get someone who is looking deeper, than it gets harder. Most people are busy in their own lives and don’t even notice when I walk by. Is that passing?

[Stephanie47]

I'm six foot even money which is down from a six foot two in my prime. I'm 200 pounds which is up from my prime of 175 pounds. Once upon a time I had a 38 inch chest and a 30 inch waist. Now the chest is 42 and the waist is 38-40 depending how much I have to suck it in. I look at the group picture in which I am standing among a group to women. I cannot pass as a GG. Any person's eye will hone in on me among a crowd. I know when I am scanning people in the mall my eye hones in on women who are tall. It's probably because I am trying to determine if the person is a GG or a cross dresser. I have almost zero body hair. I never have to shave my legs. If I shave close in the morning or before some cross dressing activity my face will not get a five o'clock shadow until late evening. None of that residual sandpaper look.

I am primarily an in-home cross dresser who does take evening strolls. I don't have to worry about passing or blending.

As a side comment. Back in 1977 I spent seven weeks in San Francisco for company training. I remember one notable occasion when I "clocked" two very attractive cross dressers in a restaurant. Their physical appearance was 100% passable. Both were tall and slender. Hair was long. If I was not scanning for people like me I probably would not have noticed. What gave them away was their movements. I got the impression both had to think too much about how a woman walks. Any woman their age (late 20's, early 30's) would not have to think about how to walk. GG's walking tends to be very fluid. Ever watch Vanna White walk in front of the puzzle board? Is she not a natural when walking?

Anyway, I do not pass. I can only strive to dress nicely as a woman my age would dress.

[Palaina Nocturnus]

Ok first off I'm blessed with being thin but very strong. I have native blood so I grow my hair out, but I have almost zero body hair. Even while in male clothes I've gotten confused for a female. So you'd think that I'd be passible 100 percent of the time, right? Nope.

Confidence. That's my secret, passed down to me from some truly great drag queens I met when I first started to come out. If you own it, you'll own them. Have you really looked at the female gender? Not all of them are good looking, some women naturally look like men. Do we bat an eye at them? Does the world really care anymore seeing a butch lesbian or a flaming drag queen? No, not really. So us as CDs are just as passible.

My voice is naturally very low so I do try to soften my speech but in general I've always been more like a young white girl trapped inside an old latino lol my mannerisms and the things I find attractive are the exact opposite of any typical Male.

Yes, when I go out now I get called by female pronouns and I never have to suggest them.

Confidence, you got this luv!!!

[Micki_Finn]

Breaking news: If you believe that you pass, and you are confident as a result, then you pass. The rest of the world will see what you project. If you are a 6ft tall, broad shoulders and square jaw kind woman exuding confidence, you're good. If you are 5'3, slender and beautiful and you're acting all paranoid or self conscious, people who pay attention will determine that there's something off about you. Love yourself and don't worry about what others may think.

While confidence is good, and helps a lot, it is NOT a magic bullet. I’ve seen some girls VERY confidently wearing their wig sideways or dress backwards, or sporting 5 o’clock shadow.

Not having anyone say anything to you is NOT the same as passing.

[Billie Jean]

No unless it's completely dark and you can't see me. Oh yeah, if I don't speak either. Billie Jean

[Robertacd]

Micki is right, don't confuse acceptance or being treated with respect as passing.

You know the TERF's always try to hurt us by reminding us that we are not passing and people are just being nice.

Well as I have said before, that's all I ask.

I am not trying to fool anyone. I have long since given up on the illusion of passing as a GG.

[audreyinalbany]

there's no way I pass, but I think I blend reasonably well. I also think that advancing age has a certain something to do with it. As we get older, the aging skin and features seem pretty common to both sexes and I think we tend to become a bit more androgynous as the years go by. I've seen a number of older women who are not 'drop dead gorgeous' and who could very well be either sex.

[OCCarly]

I do pass 95% of the time, but — I’m 5’6” (down from 5’8” in my prime), 150 lbs, I’ve been on hormones for 3 years and I have my own long hair. I never had to study feminine mannerisms; it was more a process of giving myself permission to stop trying to act macho once I was diagnosed as transgender and then letting the hormones take over.

I’ve been living full time for sixteen months now; being me is pretty much effortless.

I am currently recovering from facial feminization surgery; ask me this question again in six weeks after the swelling is gone down.

My favorite pass: I had my facial feminization surgery at a Kaiser general surgical facility. The nurse who greeted us and brought me in said to my wife later (in Tagalog; they are both Filipino) “Why are you lesbian with that woman, what a waste, you are a pretty girl, you could get any man you want.” My wife said the woman’s eyes got huge when she told her that I was transgender and we had been married for 19 years.

My wife told me this story later in the day while she was driving me home from surgery. I still laugh about this when I think of it—right before facial feminization surgery I got a pass while in a hospital gown with no makeup on and my hair pulled back under a surgical cap.��

[MonicaPVD]

That's one hell of a loser nurse.


I do pass 95% of the time, but — I’m 5’6” (down from 5’8” in my prime), 150 lbs, I’ve been on hormones for 3 years and I have my own long hair. I never had to study feminine mannerisms; it was more a process of giving myself permission to stop trying to act macho once I was diagnosed as transgender and then letting the hormones take over.

I’ve been living full time for sixteen months now; being me is pretty much effortless.

I am currently recovering from facial feminization surgery; ask me this question again in six weeks after the swelling is gone down.

My favorite pass: I had my facial feminization surgery at a Kaiser general surgical facility. The nurse who greeted us and brought me in said to my wife later (in Tagalog; they are both Filipino) “Why are you lesbian with that woman, what a waste, you are a pretty girl, you could get any man you want.” My wife said the woman’s eyes got huge when she told her that I was transgender and we had been married for 19 years.

My wife told me this story later in the day while she was driving me home from surgery. I still laugh about this when I think of it—right before facial feminization surgery I got a pass while in a hospital gown with no makeup on and my hair pulled back under a surgical cap.��

[rockerreds]

If I shaved my beard off I would pass.

[Mickitv]

I have been in public after professional makeovers and suspected people knew but never worried about it. Life is too short to worry.

[Confucius]

No. I probably could have passed as a teenager, but that was a long time ago. I wish I could pass. That would be nice. However as I get older I realize that it isn't that important.

[Helen_Highwater]

The simple definitive answer for me I think is yes and no.

While out dressed I've on occasion interacted with a random GG. They've made a remark, a comment on the weather or some incident happening near by. Judging from their reaction it's only when I speak that they realise I'm not female. I'm under no illusion this is because of my makeup is so convincing that I look like a GG but more to do with my presenting an overall image that from most angles what the viewer sees is sufficient for them to think female. Shape, mannerisms, confidence, a decent wig, all create a picture. This for me is the essence of blending.

Open my mouth, talk face to face the illusion is dispelled.

And you know what? I'll take that. Hormones, surgery, dieting might move me closer to truly passing but for me passing means the viewer has no idea they're dealing with someone born male. That's beyond what nature gave me. If I can merge into the crowd, move about largely un-noticed then I'm a happy bunny.

[Judy-Somthing]

NO! well maybe from across the street at night!

[sometimes_miss]

Me? Nope.
As far as others, someone else once wrote. to knock on your neighbor's door and ask for directions.

See if they recognize the male you underneath 'the disguise', or if they actually believe that you're just some unknown female that just happens to look similar to their male neighbor.

Betcha no one is willing to do that. They'd rather remain in their pink cloud. And I understand. But that doesn't mean that you pass.

[Becoming Brianna]

No I don't and I am trying to be okay with that. It is super hard and causes me much sadness and angst. I look at a woman who is killing it with her makeup and just looks beautiful and think "I can never have that I can never be that I can never look like that" and I feel so sad because I really want to be a woman like that. I want so badly to pass. My friends and parents tell me they think I eventually will but I don't believe them. Whenever I see a woman like that I can just feel my otherness so acutely.

[Patience]

No.

But I pass as a generic woman.

[Peggie Lee]

As happens lots of times I find my self standing in line in the ladies room waiting chatting away with the gals, no one has ever clocked me and it’s because my voice just sounds feminine, I’ve seen people’s expressions softened the moment they hear me talk, when living as a man this has always created a lot of problems for me. Being 70 years old I dress just the same as all the other grandmothers and remain practically invisible to most people.

[Helen_Highwater]

No I don't and I am trying to be okay with that. It is super nhard and causes me much sadness and angst. I look at a woman who is killing it with her makeup and just looks beautiful and think "I can never have that I can never be that I can never lomok like that" and I feel so sad because I really want to be a woman like that. I want so badly to pass. My friends and parents tell me they think I eventually will but I don't believe them. Whenever I see a woman like that I can just feel my otherness so acutely.

Brianna,

There are many truly lovely looking GG's that are admired not just by males but other GG's too. Those GG's know looking that good is beyond them and they have to content themselves going with what nature gave them.

If we can look like those "average" GG's then we'll be doing okay. I know I'm never going to emulate some model but it's not beyond hope that I can look like miss/mrs average. If that then allows me to move amongst the crowd enfemme then I'll be more than content with that.

Setting realistic goals for ourselves is vitally important if we're not going to drive ourselves to despair and/or deny ourselves access to the wider world.

[Nikki_Caden]

No, I'll never pass. Distance, dim lights and soccer mom makeup are my best friends when I'm out and about as Nikki. I just try to dress to blend in more so than to pass and when I'm clocked it doesn't really bother me, I just smile and say "hi".

[Ressie]

As happens lots of times I find my self standing in line in the ladies room waiting chatting away with the gals, no one has ever clocked me and it’s because my voice just sounds feminine, I’ve seen people’s expressions softened the moment they hear me talk... Being 70 years old I dress just the same as all the other grandmothers and remain practically invisible to most people.

I believe this because a naturally fem voice makes a big difference. Even if I had a fem voice my big hands give me away.

[Majella St Gerard]

anyone that says that they pass is delusional , there is NO WAY to tell, unless you are a mind reader. PASSING in pictures is way different than passing out in the RW. Damn, some REAL WOMEN don't pass in public.

[Michellebej]

I believe this because a naturally fem voice makes a big difference. Even if I had a fem voice my big hands give me away.

Re: the big hands issue. I had a GG friend who knew I was trans/cd before i dressed in front of her. She confidently said that she would instantly know, no matter how good my voice or make up; or carriage, or whatever. She told me it was simply my hand size.

So.....I looked around at my friends and then net, and I came up with some pics of people and then their hands. I asked her to tell me which hands were male and which female. She got all half dozen wrong. It IS a good general rule, and as such will be used against you. But it is not hard and fast. Just as I don't have an adams apple. There are things to do to minimize your hands. Gloves in winter can work with some clothing. Long sleeves with cuffs do wonders. In the end though I have to agree that hands are probably the best way to clock a cd. Even if it is not a 100 percent correct thing!

- - - Updated - - -


anyone that says that they pass is delusional , there is NO WAY to tell, unless you are a mind reader. PASSING in pictures is way different than passing out in the RW. Damn, some REAL WOMEN don't pass in public.

Majella, that really is quite harsh, and really, just wrong. Absolute statements are usually a bad idea. Here is why. Statistically some of will in fact pass. It is just a numbers game. Even if one person on the entire planet passed you just said that they suffered from a mental defect. There are in fact other ways than mind reading. I worked as an interrogator/interviewer for 8 years. I used to be able to read them like you might read a book. If I couldn't read an atypical response to my appearance, then I did not deserve to have held my position. Additionally if you know a group for a nice long time, you can ask them if at any time when they first met you that you passed. Finally as some observed, they do indeed pass till they open their mouth.

Trust me not everyone who thinks they pass are mentally defective!

[Mary Lawrence]

I am 72. As woman age, skin changes and weight is commonly added around the face and neck. Of course, I could not "pass" a close inspection, but I do well creating a substantial amount of uncertainty even in the mind of an inquisitive onlooker. These days, most folks are quite willing to give someone who looks vaguely female the benefit of the doubt. In this respect, I have become increasingly confident about my presentation in public, except for my voice. I try to avoid conversation because it is the most obvious giveaway even if I try to feminize it. Once, when I first started being adventurous, a Walmart checkout clerk took my money, gave me change and saw my poorly done nails, worse than a fourth grader's. She looked up at me in surprise as I started toward the exit, then moved out into the aisle, exclaiming, "That's man!", calling to another clerk. (My nail-work has improved since then and there have been no similar 'outs'.) More importantly, I was not particularly disturbed by the situation at the time, nor was I ever. So, can I pass? I guess it depends on the definition of "pass." I prefer to believe I am simply giving the world a chance to accept me as a conservatively dressed woman who is getting on in years.

[Maid_Marion]

I'm nicely proportioned petite XS hourglass. No adams apple. High pitched well modulated voice. Prone to high rising terminal when I get tired. No sign of MPB. Lots of salt and pepper hair past my shoulders. I wear XS gloves. People have asked my age and think I look 15 years younger than my real age. I've been really good at protecting my skin from the sun for the past few decades.

Do I pass? I don't care after getting misgendered all my life. Either way people remember me. I enjoy the sport of shopping for clothes, now that I have a huge choice of cheap clothes to buy that fits really well.

[Jodie_Lynn]

Do you 100% pass as a genetic woman when out engaging with the public?

What does this even mean?

There are GG's who are 5' 11" and taller; There are GG's who are built like linebackers; there are GG's who are petite, elfin creatures.

There are GG's who have very masculine features, and GM's who have very delicate, feminine features, with slight frames.

I personally know some GM's who could be pro footballers who are soooo flamboyantly swish, that they are almost caricatures of the gay man. And GG's who could give Mike Tyson a run for his money in the ring.
Seriously, a GG bouncer at a club I go to, knocked a guy out cold when he got too 'grabby' with me. AND, she could have bench-pressed me!


So please explain what you mean by "passing as a genetic woman?"

[fun4metoo2004]

I am almost 59 and my first time out dressed as a woman was Halloween 2018. I am not saying that I passed, however I was not recognized as Man in a dress, I was not questioned, or given dirty looks. Everyone assumed that I was a woman until I spoke. My voice is never going to be low or high pitched enough to pass that way.

Without trying I think I passed in most cases. I have a Pinup photo shoot 17 Aug, and plan to have lots of fun with that. Professional makeup and hair, great location etc.

[Sarah Doepner]

I've been ignored by the crowds but seen as "not-a-woman" by individuals. I've been complimented and acctpted by individuals. I've waited in line to use the ladies room with no comments that I heard. Other times when I've felt I was doing my best I was mis-gendered. So, no is my answer to the question.

[Diedre]

In my early teens back in the late 60's - early 70's , with the help of a female cousin who had amazing makeup skills, i passed without any suspicion at all. But once full puberty set in I couldn't pass in a dark room full of people wearing sunglasses. The desire to fully dress has been gone since that period. It's been almost 50 years since I last wore makeup or fake boobs.

[Helen_Highwater]

I've been ignored by the crowds but seen as "not-a-woman" by individuals.

Sarah,

I think that is perhaps the best description of what most of us can realistically expect when out and about. I'll add to that that even though we're seen as "not-a-woman" by individuals that doesn't mean we're treated badly or with discourtesy. Far from it.

[Elizabeth Marie]

Pass, no. Blend in, yes. I dress appropriately for a woman my age, and the occasion. I get a few double takes, especially when I speak, but for the most part I just blend into the crowd, just another late middle age woman. The first time my therapist saw me as Beth she said that I seem to know what I'm doing, and at first glance she would assume I was just another older woman.

[Alice Torn]

Only from a distance sometimes.

[Sarah Louise]

The other day I got told I pass easily by a lady I met. Well obviously I don't as she never would have made that comment!

But I blend ok.

[Jenny22]

When shopping a couple of days ago at Ross DFL, I asked her to follow me at a distance to see what people might take a second look at me or make a rude gesture .. anything. She said none that she saw did anything of the sort. She told me that I blended very well. Nice to hear that!

[lingerieLiz]

I don't think it is true that most men can pass as women. In youth it may not be that hard, but as we get older the harder it would be. I could pass at 20, but not today. I do wear women's clothes. I wear fem clothes which are similar to women my age. A silk blouse is a blouse. I'm not looking for a SO I have a wife. I have worn the same top that someone else had on to parties and events. so there was little question about what I was wearing. I have worn a maxie dress to a pool party at the suggestion of one of our neighbors. All the girls were getting together and I was envited but had to come dressed like the other gals.

[Cheryl T]

While I would love to believe that I do I know the truth is NO.
That's ok, I simply want to be accepted for who I am. I just want to blend in with society. I'm not the standard bearer, the cheerleader or any of that. I'm one of the masses and happy that way.

I've gotten the stares, the whispers and sometimes the compliments. That's how it goes.

[Rachel Anne]

Yes. Was a "scrawny kid", and am scrawny adult. Off the rack stuff fits just fine, and often times much better than male stuff. Just that body type I guess.

All works until I say something. Voice is still a challenge, but I'm working on it.

[Tracy Irving]

please explain what you mean by "passing as a genetic woman?"

The following comes from the original post:


In the thread about having a beard, it has been brought to my attention that a culmination of the reading I have done on the topic of passing is inaccurate.

While I keep reading about how many of us don't pass but rather try to blend in, others believe that most of us do, in fact, pass as women..

If you seek more information, I direct you to my conversation in the thread mentioned above.

[LucyDarlene20]

Passed once for about 30 seconds. It was a family Halloween party about 35 years ago and my first time out en femme. My sister-in-law spotted me and told my wife, "That's the ugliest woman I've ever seen." "That's no lady, that's my husband, your brother-in-law." Jaw drop.

[AllieSF]

And THAT Mickitv is the answer. Don't Worry, Be Happy!!

[sometimes_miss]

The other day I got told I pass easily by a lady I met. Well obviously I don't as she never would have made that comment!
AH! But are you sure SHE was a lady? Maybe she was just another CD'er who passes even better than you! They certainly are out there. We just don't notice them....usually. I had ONE patient who could pass once, a long time ago; when I went out to the waiting room and called a man's name, what I initially saw appeared to be a woman responding. I almost said something, but then it was her eyes that gave her away, and I can't exactly say why (larger maybe? or the way he looked at me? I'm still not sure). His gait was sort of ever so slightly ambiguous, but such that could be easily taken as female, especially since he was wearing heels. It was only when he spoke that I could have been able to tell for sure if I hadn't already known (of course the male name and gender indication on the chart was the true give away). The key that enabled him to pass, was height, and being slight of build; those go a long way to help hide the truth.

[Danielle_cder]

Maybe? I’ve never had a bad moment out and about, no clocking, no bad interactions so I guess I pass...

[Maid_Marion]

The last time I confused someone was at Panera Bread, picking up an order, when I was wearing Junior's T shirt and short shorts. My male name didn't match the way I looked, as the shirt was cut to show off my bust line.

When I was younger I thought that my thin build made me look feminine. 20 years later and 20 lbs heavier I now have an hourglass figure with the same size waist. :)

[Ressie]

^ Confusing people can be very close to passing since they aren't sure if it's a female or male that they've encountered. Truly passing is if everyone is positively sure that you're a female. And how many of us can truly claim that level?

[HollyGreene]

It really depends on how successful my makeup is that day. I have some really good days and some absolutely terrible days when it comes to makeup. On the good days, people appear to think I'm a woman. On mediocre days, I get the odd quizzical look as if they can't make out if I'm a woman or not. On the bad days, I get fairly obvious looks, but I do tend to avoid going out if my makeup went badly.

[Michaelasfun]

Similar to model airplanes, I like to think of myself as “stand-off” scale..stand far enough off and it might happen :D

[Lydianne]

To me, passing is talking to your neighbour, and everything else is: yeah-cool-story-but-wake-me-when-you've-talked-to-your-neighbour.

Therefore I'm a 'no',.. but that's not what I aim for.

When I sit down with a tube of primer, my main objective and what causes me the most fear is achieving a representation that looks feminine enough to pacify an internal conflict. If I'm successful, I feel it internally, but on the outside, not that I routinely seek confirmation, I hope I look 'pleasant'.

If someone begins an interaction with me, I hope to make eyebrows go up rather than down. Some guys are so insecure about homosexual accusations between each other that they would even be incapable of acknowledging when another CIS guy looks good. Such extreme guys, I'm unconcerned about them. However, everyone else of moderate temperament who interacts with me, I hope for: "hmm.. but he looks kind of OK."

On the inside, though, as said, I feel feminine . . if the transformation attempt is successful.

- Lydianne.