Historical Men's clothing that are now considered taboo

[tbryant2k16]

Interesting how when you look back in history at how many items of clothing that are now called woman's wear was once considered men's fashion. Skirts, hosiery (tights) , high heels, one piece swimsuits, leotards, makeup are a few examples. While the swimsuits might not of been what you see today. But then it was against the law for Men to bare their chests. So they had to wear these one piece swimsuits. This was in the early 1900's. Men switched to pants basically to ride horses into battle during a war and because a French king got defeated by a pants wearing army. That's essentially the only reason why Men stopped wearing skirts and tunics. Then some other clothes became socially unacceptable during the Queen Victoria era, or the prudish era. And that's when clothes became gendered and to wear clothes of the other gender became socially/morally unacceptable and laws made. Otherwise there is no other reason for gendered clothes. Granted some clothes have to be a bit different to allow for different body features (breasts and hips) of men and women.

Today the only roadblock is really the social and "moral" aspect of wearing the opposite gender clothing. We don't ride horse into battles anymore, we don't have a Queen Victoria dictating fashion. There's really no reason why men and women can't wear the same clothes anymore like they used to throughout history.

Trevor

[Tracii G]

There have been hundreds of threads on here about this very thing.
Do a search and you will be busy for hours reading all the replies.

[docrobbysherry]

Maybe where u live. But, American men r incredibly insecure about their manhood. And, may feel threatened by men in dresses!:straightface:

[Vickie_CDTV]

Generally, once women adopt something, men eventually eschew it (pants are an exception.)

Most men won't adopt traditionally female clothing because women don't find that attractive. The majority of men won't do things that women consider a turn-off or make it more difficult to attract a woman. (Even among gay men, most won't adopt feminine dress because it is traditionally associated with weakness in mainstream gay culture.)

[VS Fan]

And remember - despite what the men were wearing, they weren’t adding breast forms! :)

[GretchenM]

The history of fashion is a fascinating journey through irrationality. The reasoning behind the fashion at the time seemed so sensible and yet when viewed from another time seems like some kind of mental disease possessed everybody. I view it as herd behavior based on fads that someone initiates and most everybody else follows because most everybody else is following. In that regard we are sometimes like a herd of sheep. To top that off, old fashions return for a second or third round but in a slightly modified form and then they fade away again. I would like to say it is a bit like evolution except that if evolution was that way life would have never made it as far as it has. But that is OK with regard to fashion - after all, as many of us like to say, it is just clothes. And that is what it really comes down to. So wear what you want and follow whatever fashion you desire. It is a means of individual expression. And smile big while you are doing so.

[Stephanie47]

Even if men and women were to be allowed by societal norms and conventions to wear identical clothes there still would be some way for a man to emulate a woman. That's the big issue. IMHO, it's more than just the clothes.

[Alice Torn]

I agree with DRS.

[Jean 103]

So why not be a tend setter instead of a follower.

As for fashion it has all been done before. Just go for what works for you.

As far as men go, if you are a TG person in a dress , it is really not a big deal. Being a MIAD is a bit more of a hard sale, still not impossible.

[Confucius]

Historically, when men wore skirts and tunics, they never tried to appear feminine. Scotsmen can still wear kilts, and they do NOT appear feminine. In the past, women appeared more feminine than they do now. What bothers me is that most women no longer wear pantyhose, slips, high heels, or petticoats. Women's undergarments are looking much less feminine than they used to be. Most women rarely wear skirts and dresses anymore! The trend is definitely for women to appear less feminine. That's so sad.

[Robertacd]

Hmmm so you are saying that clothing was nongendered until the Victorian era?

I find that hard to believe

[char GG]

What bothers me is that most women no longer wear pantyhose, slips, high heels, or petticoats. Women's undergarments are looking much less feminine than they used to be. Most women rarely wear skirts and dresses anymore! The trend is definitely for women to appear less feminine. That's so sad.

Just curious. Why does this bother you?

[RADER]

Ah, For the good old days.
Rader

[tbryant2k16]

Guess what I'm saying is how many of what are now women's clothes were at one time either for both sexes or originally only worn by men. Skirts have been around since pre-historic time and were worn by both sexes. And the main reasons why Men stopped was because of the French Revolution and the Industrial Revolution, then it became socially unacceptable afterwards.

The Victorian Era did bring in many in many fashion, moral, and social changes for both sexes. While there was some gendering of clothing before, this really made it 2 distinct categories of clothes. For men, bright colours and luxurious fabrics disappeared from clothes. Clothing became more utilitarian and drab. Guess it also went along with the Industrial Revolution and the new safety dress codes. Didn't want loose fitting skirts getting caught in moving machinery in the factories. For women, it was the era of the corset to get that waist line slim and other fashion requirements. In some ways we still abide by Victorian era rules, while we have broke free of others. Today's social norms for clothing are essentially still from the Victorian era. Hopefully one day these outdated social norms will disappear and we don't have to worry about what we can and can't wear without trying to emulate being a woman if you don't want to.

A few interesting videos that I know of that explain the reason better.

Men who wear skirts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_MxS7A5nws

Why men wear pants
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RNHRGWdKD0

Why do women wear skirts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnqOHzAMqfI

[Taylor186]

Then some other clothes became socially unacceptable during the Queen Victoria era, or the prudish era. And that's when clothes became gendered and to wear clothes of the other gender became socially/morally unacceptable and laws made.

Pretty sure clothing has been gendered for thousands of years. You don't have to look any further than the Old Testament to know that.

[Sometimes Steffi]

Don't forget corsets for young boys and (powdered) wigs for men.

[Taylor186]

Young boys in corsets? Who knew.

"Clothing: In the eighteenth century, boys wore dresses until they were "breeched," dressed in breeches like adult men. This usually occurred around the time they were fully potty-trained. The child in blue in this painting is a boy. His gown is more masculine that that of the little girl in yellow, and cut more like a man's coat, with buttons down the front and buttoned cuffs. His shoes are more masculine than the girl's dainty slippers. His head is uncovered, whereas the girl wears a lace cap. The stiff shape of both children's bodies comes from wearing stays (eighteenth-century undergarments much like corsets), which were designed to give them good posture. The little girl will wear stays her whole life, but the little boy will stop around the time he is breeched."

306363
Portrait of Two Children, Boston, ca. 1760
attributed to Joseph Badger
The Colonial Williamsburg Foundation

[Source] https://www.history.org/history/teaching/enewsletter/volume11/jan13/primsource.cfm

[Sometimes Steffi]

Taylor

I'm glad that you were able to prove my assertion that young boys wore corsets. What you say is much like I remember it, except for the word "breached", although I did know that boys gave up the corset when they started wearing breaches. Also, many men wore corsets for their posture also.

So, the question becomes, why didn't these boys grow up to be CDers?

[tbryant2k16]

Taylor

I'm glad that you were able to prove my assertion that young boys wore corsets. What you say is much like I remember it, except for the word "breached", although I did know that boys gave up the corset when they started wearing breaches. Also, many men wore corsets for their posture also.

So, the question becomes, why didn't these boys grow up to be CDers?

Probably because it was the common dress of that era and wasn't considered to be dressed as the opposite sex.

[Angie G]

If it ever became the fashion for men to wear skirts and dresses I'd be out there in a skirt so fast. :hugs:
Angie

[tbryant2k16]

If it ever became the fashion for men to wear skirts and dresses I'd be out there in a skirt so fast. :hugs:
Angie

For thousands of years it was fashionable. And it wasn't considered crossdressing.

[Janice An]

If you only consider the way Males and Females are built below the waist. The "normals" are wearing the wrong clothes.
Pants fit the female body much better. Skirts fit the male better.

[Brenn]

I have started wearing ballet flats as often as I can. They are comfortable and practical in many ways, and I bet many men would wear them if there wasn't a "stigma." They were normal attire for men in the middle ages, and some cultures even have shoes today that are very similar in construction.

[abbiedrake]

Fashion through the ages is varied and of great interest to us particularly.

However it strikes me that our fascination rests on a precarious presupposition. That is that we, as CDs, are drawn to attire such as dresses and skirts. But it's easy to see how unsatisfactory a simple societal permission to access these garments would be for so many of us.

Too many of us seem drawn to the coding of the garments as specifically female. MIADs are the exception here in genuinely being able to claim a preference for the garment itself as a matter of preference but how many here strive for a far fuller feminine presentation? No wardrobe full of kilts is going to assuage the deeper need we clearly feel. This latter having been a sticking point in trying to gain my wife's understanding.

Ok beyond this point I founder. I have no idea if there is some definite female part to me that is only satisfied by such presentation. Or whether I simply have an innate proclivity for transgression. The question is posed elsewhere (https://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?265693-What-if-crossdressing-were-normalized). If skirts for men caught on, a huge number of us would still, clearly I think, be looking for ways to step across the divide.

All of which having been said, even given those times when men wore the lace and frills surely no period in history has been so rich in variety of fashion as the one we're currently living in?!

[tbryant2k16]

Clothing and fashion does also seem to be pretty cyclic. So in the future, what maybe taboo today for men will become normal again. And we are ones trying to drive that change. To me a lot of these gendered clothing social norms are pointless.

[Palaina Nocturnus]

I've had this exact conversation multiple times. I always go back to its what's in your heart not what you covered it with today cuz tomorrow may dictate that you can't wear it anymore.