Should I have defended her ?

[Teresa]

Last night at my social meeting in the usual hotel I sat talking to another member in the open loung area . A family group sat round the next table , consisting of a two young children , parents and grandparents . One of our members walked by , I admit she has never been the best CDer in the World but she is a pleasant friendly kind of person . As she passed the family group I saw the grandmother lean forward to say something to the others and she then sat back looking at the CDer shaking her head and giggling behind her hand , more words were then spoken followed by more giggling . The grandmother then caught my eye realising I'd been watching all this , I just gave her a pleasant smile and she smiled back .

While I realise it wasn't openly a hostile reaction from them I thought after if I should have just gone over and said something to them ?

I know it comes back to the thorny question of passing or not but I couldn't help thinking not passing isn't funny ! The member concerned was dressed in a dress with flat shoes , makeup and wig , she was unaware of this situation and possibly didn't care but it could have been so different . I kept thinking the rest of the night if I'd defended her it would have been like defending the whole group .

[SheriM]

It can be very difficult to change people's minds, especially when it comes to sexual orientation, CD's, etc. People are so in to themselves that they cannot understand that everyone may not be like them. I think you did the right thing, Teresa, by giving the woman a knowing smile. A picture can be worth a thousand words.

[Crissy 107]

Teresa, I think just the smile when she saw you was enough, if someone from that group had openly said something then to me that would cross the line and most likely I would have had to say something. There is no reason to ruin a pleasant evening if you can avoid it.

[GretchenM]

Teresa, I think you did the right thing. Making a scene, especially with children present, would have been really bad and could have escalated. There is no telling how the other people would have reacted and it might have been embarrassing to the new arrival to your group. She might not have wanted that as it just accentuates the difficulties she may be having with improving her presentation. I might not have smiled but given them an eye roll, but nothing more than that. It all depends on the circumstances and exactly what happened. You were there; I wasn't; I trust your judgement and think you probably did the right thing.

[Cheryl T]

Occasionally our group would go to a local diner for dinner then go out to the movies.
One night there were about 10 of us there. As always the diner owner and staff treated us like royalty. We were seated at a large table in the back, in the open and very visible.
This night there was a large family group seated at the tables in the middle of the floor. That formed 2 aisles that we had to use to access our tables. Two of the girls went to the restroom and the same thing happened, whispers, snickers, derisive looks.
Another girl and I saw this and mentioned it to the others. 4 of us got up and purposely walked past these people, slow and deliberate. They began to do the same thing, Until ... we stopped at their tables and said hello. We asked how their meal and evening were, were they having a reunion. We introduced ourselves and told them we were off to the movies after dinner and wished them a wonderful evening. Then we continued past to the front of the diner. A bit later we returned, smiling again at the group and rejoined our sisters. The family was very quiet.
As we left later we again smiled and wished them well. This time they smiled back and did the same.
Maybe we changed a few attitudes, maybe not. But we didn't let them take advantage of us. We showed we are not what they thought, we are just human.

[Crissy 107]

Cheryl, Good for you and your group, I think that was appropriate.

[Bobbi46]

Restraint and decorum are often the best things to uitilise,Once I was out at a large store and close by was a family I heard sniggering going on and turned round and gave them a hard look and started to walk over to ask was there a problem, the thing i the whole family legged it out of the store! the result 1-0 to me!!

[Helen_Highwater]

Teresa,

As others have said, saying something could have escalated the situation into something unpleasant. Not wishing to stereotype but you were dealing with someone of a certain generation. While I won't say you can't teach an old dog new tricks, what you'd be looking to do is change many decades of long held opinions. Opinions as we know, embedded throughout society for generations and only now changing for the better.

On one of my rare sorties out enfemme I'd stopped in an arts centre cafe for a light bite and a drink. As I was leaving a woman with 2 friends suddenly caught sight of me and in what was an instinctive reaction let out "Oh, look" loud enough so I heard. I paused very briefly, gave her the puzzled "really" look, smiled and continued on. I think she was definitely the more embarrassed of the two of us.

Cheryl's non confrontational approach is just how it should be done. It's very hard for most folks to respond aggressively to people who are just being polite. Folks will also not wish to comment afterwards as they know they hadn't the courage to do it there and then.

[Jodie_Lynn]

Could you actually hear what was said?
Could your friend?

Discretion is oftentimes the better part of valor, and had you confronted the muggles, you, your group, and the trans community in general would be seen in a negative light.

[Frammer32]

I personally think you did the right thing. Being confrontational can turn ugly in a hurry.

[Angela Marie]

Either smile politely, or say nothing and act as if nothing happened. Confrontation is almost always counterproductive. Many times allowing yourself to be seen as a gentle, kind person is enough. It may not change minds; but it at least may make a small difference in attitudes. Change is always incremental. Patience is the key.

[Vickie_CDTV]

People can have their opinions. Barring a self defense situation, let it go. You won't convince them of anything, and you may escalate the situation. Especially when children are around.

[Angie G]

Would it be worth saying something after all you can't fix stupid. :hugs:
Angie

[Teresa]

If I had said or done anything it might have been on the same lines as Cheryl, I wouldn't have been confrontational . From my own experince I would say I'm politely on the offensive rather than the defensive , in other words I usually approach most people and break the ice in a friendly way . I prefer to show them what TG people are and what not they think we are .

[Micki_Finn]

I personally would have stayed out of it. You don’t know what was said or why they were giggling. Yes, it probably had something to do with the CDer given the situation, but you don’t know for sure. Best to stay out of it IMO.

[Teresa]

Micki,
I do know for sure as I watched it unfold , the grandmother was sitting almost facing me I didn't hear what was said but it was obvioulsy about the social group member . I don't think the lady realised I was part of the group at that time .

[Tracy Irving]

People are so in to themselves that they cannot understand that everyone may not be like them.

So true!

Some people aren't happy unless they're angry, complaining or criticizing others. It is difficult to change them so I try to avoid them.

[Tracii G]

Just your look was fine I think.
No reason to escalate things in a public setting with kids around.

[Robertacd]

I would have at least given her the stink eye.

306620

[Stephanie47]

I think you did the correct thing, although it is difficult to judge whether the exchange of smiles on her part was perceived as concurrence with her disapproval or realization she was caught in a negative light. If she or someone in her group had vocalized disapproval, then I think it would have been proper to admonish the woman and provide a little education. It would be perfect for the television program, "What would you do?"

PS: I think the cartoon sums it up well.

[Aunt Kelly]

Your response was perfect, Teresa. While the behavior at the other table was not overtly hostile, it wasn't exactly friendly. You, on the other hand, were. A smile can be disarming in the face of disapproval. If those others had an ounce of self-worth, they'd have realized that you had just out-classed them.

[Micki_Finn]

Micki,
I do know for sure as I watched it unfold , the grandmother was sitting almost facing me I didn't hear what was said but it was obvioulsy about the social group member . I don't think the lady realised I was part of the group at that time .
Exactly. You didn’t hear WHAT was said, so you don’t know exactly what they were laughing at. For all you know they were laughing because “Remember how awkward grandpa was when he first came out to us as a crossdresser?”

[Shelly Preston]

Perfect Teresa

With one look I am sure you suddenly conveyed that you had more class.

I am sure the grandmother was embarrassed as she was caught making a joke out of someones appearance.

[joank]

It's their problem, not yours.
Don't make it yours.
You handled it fine

[Jean 103]

I agree with the others. You did the right thing.

The other part is that they saw people being people.

Their perception has been changed.

[Teresa]

Jean,
The problem with some of them is their acceptance hasn't .

Part of the problem with this situation was that the person from our social group did look obviously male despite wearing a dress with makeup and a wig , maybe she could have tried harder . I know this line of thinking raises so many issues , I know there are no rules it depends very much on how much we can personally live with the public's reaction to us . Getting no reaction at all is the best compliment we can get but then sometimes we need a little more to make it feel worthwhile .

[mykell]

Occasionally our group would go to a local diner for dinner then go out to the movies.
One night there were about 10 of us there. As always the diner owner and staff treated us like royalty. We were seated at a large table in the back, in the open and very visible.
This night there was a large family group seated at the tables in the middle of the floor. That formed 2 aisles that we had to use to access our tables. Two of the girls went to the restroom and the same thing happened, whispers, snickers, derisive looks.
Another girl and I saw this and mentioned it to the others. 4 of us got up and purposely walked past these people, slow and deliberate. They began to do the same thing, Until ... we stopped at their tables and said hello. We asked how their meal and evening were, were they having a reunion. We introduced ourselves and told them we were off to the movies after dinner and wished them a wonderful evening. Then we continued past to the front of the diner. A bit later we returned, smiling again at the group and rejoined our sisters. The family was very quiet.
As we left later we again smiled and wished them well. This time they smiled back and did the same.
Maybe we changed a few attitudes, maybe not. But we didn't let them take advantage of us. We showed we are not what they thought, we are just human.


very tactful approach, not in theyre face nor disrespectful and safe in case they were in fact talking about grandpa....which it seems through description this would have been theyre way to deal with him also....

[docrobbysherry]

I can see it now Teresa:

U stop at their table and say what Cheryl did. The grandma titters behind her hand while the others smile politely.
U shoulder on, unhappy with grannie's attitude and honestly blurt, "I know she's not the best looking trans but you're being rude! Maybe she should try harder, but she's a nice person. I don't think u would laff if u got to know her." Smile and then return to your group.:battingeyelashes:

Personally, situations like this and others even worse r why I detest visiting vanilla venues!:doh:

[Allisa]

The sad part is this is where the children will form their opinions and learn their actions from, the elderly role models. Trying to reprimand someone for a lifetime of ignorance is futile and not worth the time of day.

[Tracii G]

Lisa same goes for the trans activist that would have made a huge scene about it.
Kids would see that as well and think all trans people are like that.
All that happens when a big scene gets made both parties end up looking stupid to everyone around them.
It doesn't matter who is wrong or right both parties look like idiots.
Just like that trans activist person that got mad because a clerk said sir and started screaming its ma'am and cussing like a sailor. No need for that kind of stuff.

[AngelaYVR]

When the giggling/comments is done privately - turn the other cheek. If it’s pointedly made to call you out ... well. I’ve often found a disapproving look is enough to silence the buffoons but I was once compelled to tell the transgressor that “I notice it’s always the most badly dressed women who laugh the loudest” which just shocked her into silence and raised a snicker from others. They don’t like the taste of their own medicine.

[Ressie]

Some CDs are gonna get giggled at more than others. Even some of us will shake our heads at other CDs that look weird in some way. And maybe it's good that we don't all blend in, even if some of us look outrageous. There's one CD that doesn't want to be seen in public with one of the members of our group and I think that is wrong.

I guess I might have become defensive depending on how my day has been going so far. But either saying nothing or or just being friendly to the woman would be the way to go. You could say something without being confrontational if it's done right.

[Aunt Kelly]

Some CDs are gonna get giggled at more than others. Even some of us will shake our heads at other CDs that look weird in some way. And maybe it's good that we don't all blend in, even if some of us look outrageous.
That's very true, Ressie. Blending is not a requirement, IF you've got enough confidence to carry on in the face of the occasional smirks, giggles and wisecracks. It goes with the territory, ladies, so if those things are daunting, maybe mingling with the "normals" is not for you. But if you can smile pleasantly while making eye contact, a bigger world opens up for you. And if you can meet that disapproving share, you know the one I'm talking about, with a smile and maybe a cute little wave, you can actually have fun with it. Making them squirm like that is always a treat for me. 😁

[alwayshave]

Teresa, I think you handled it perfectly. I have been giggled at, I have just ignored it.

[Teresa]

Sherry,
No not the way I would handle it if I did choose to say something , the vanilla world doesn't bother me but to say something has to help our cause not alienate it .

Angela,
The thought did cross my mind , the lady concerned was dressed smartly casual .

Aunt Kelly ,
I know that's a valid point but there are some still a little on the fence even if it is a public hotel , the room usually allocated to our group is not far from the main entrance . Some still can't run the gauntlet on heading to the bar area as it's on the far side of the main communial lounge area , the member concerned had done just that and was on her way back .

Tracii,
The point about the children did concern me , it would have been interesting to know what comments were being made in front of them .

[Michellebej]

Teresa,

I have had a similar experience a time or two in the past. I simply approached the group/person and remarked "Now we know why children lack common courtesy". Or something of that ilk. It generally shames them, if an older person.

However; it takes the onus away from CDing and towards manners and courtesy.

[Maria in heels]

Teresa...you did tell her that what she did was improper and not nice...as others have said, a look can say everything

[donnalee]

Since you didn't hear what was said, it could have been something else entirely. When you're not sure, don't assume.

[Jean 103]

Teresa,

I completely understand the situation. I have been in similar situations, when attending DLV.

You see actions speak louder than words. Despite how they look, how did they behave?

If you behave like a normal person than you must be.

Sure there are some people that you will never win over.

Others I've gotten like "well you I accept but I don't know about anyone else. These people just need more time, interaction, observation.

[Teresa]

Donnalee,
When you see another person directly look at another person as I described and then look at the others in her group and shake their head, make backhanded comments and continue to look at the subject making more comments and giggling behind their hand it's more than an assumption who the attention was on .

It would have been a different matter if the group were laughing and joking within their group and not directing their gaze elsewhere .

Jean ,
The person from our group is possibly well seasoned in this situation she just walked casually by without turning her attention , she's posssibly quite capable of taking care of herself but some of our group aren't , some still need a wingman !

[CynthiaD]

Yes. You did exactly the right thing.

[Helena]

Teresa, I think you handled it correctly.