Estradiol Patch's

[Patty B.]

I've been on estradiol patches for almost 2 years and no matter where they are placed, they start to fall off after day 2. I am on twice weekly, so my question is, does any one have this problem and how did they solve it. I've tried medical adhesive, which hasn't worked and the only thing that does work is to cover the patch with a bandaid.

[Dorit]

Hi Patty! I have used estradiol patches for about 20 months and have never had one fall off. Assuming you're placing them on clean, hairless skin, do you do a lot of athletic activity? Vigorous moving and perspiration can effect their adhesion. If this is the case, than what you are doing is OK, add a band-aid or some medical tape. There is a remote possibility that the batch of patches you are using is defective and therefore a problem with the glue. I hope this helps.

[Nikki.]

After showering i clean the skin with 90% alcohol, wait for it to dry, then apply. no issues, even with vigorous exercise.

[Laura912]

Several patients had a similar problem. We went to other forms of estrogen intake with no problems.

[Richelle]

Is it always the same brand. My pharmacy changed the brand of patch I get. I have noticed that this new brand is stickier. Maybe you could look into that.

Richelle

[Joan_CD]

Hi,

ive been on Vivelle patches for several years. I like them because they are very small and adhere very well. I place them below the navel and under my panty line, alternating sides. They don’t fall off and I exercise daily. Maybe they might work for you.

[Lana Mae]

After 2-4 days my weekly patch comes off too! I use medical tape across the top and it usually holds but have had to use it top and bottom! I am on the large patches and I don't like them but it is what the insurance will pay for! I had the smaller twice a week patch and liked them! Oh, well such is life! hugs Lana Mae

[AllieSF]

I use Mylan very small patches wearing 3 at a time and changing them once a week. I always clean the spot where the patches go with alcohol on a cotton ball. I clean the same area several times while also cleaning the little gummy black lines at the edges of where the patches were attached. I hardly ever get loose patches, normally after taking a long hot shower. I just use a bandage to hold it in place until the next change. Maybe your skin is much oilier. As said above, talk with your doctor and see what they recommend. Good luck.

[Katya@]

Hi Patty,

I too had patches for 20 months before I decided to switch to intramuscular injections. Like others suggested, I also cleaned the spot with alcohol, and when it was dry, I had applied the patch. It never fell off and I run twice a week for an hour or more. However, what has happened, is that it will wrinkle in the middle once in a while. Then, it will start itching like crazy, forcing me to remove the patch and use a new one, before the time was up. I found out that Mylan brand patches gave me more itching that way than those made by Sandoz. I asked pharmacy to not give me Mylan, and they were cool with that. I also put patch on my lower stomach below the belt line. Later, I switched to put the on my buttock as it got less hair over time. It was more convenient and less visible in summer. So try different brands, and different locations.

To be honest, I am so happy for switching to injections 4 weeks ago. One shot, and you are done for a week. No marks, no itching! Dealing with syringes and needles disposal is not complicated as I thought. I store covered needles in the container from pills until full, and then will seal it and mark it "sharp" and put in trash. Syringes just go to trash right away. Pretty simply. It take a bit of a mental will to poke yourself, but it is not too bad.
Good luck,

Katya

[JohnH]

I also use injectable estradiol valerate, and my experience is the same as Katya.

[Joan_CD]

For those that switched from patches to injection, did you notice any type of change in progress, such as a growth spurt in some area? Just curious.

[prene]

I had my patches just below my belt line and never had a problem with them falling off.
I used Estradots.

[Jeri Ann]

For those that switched from patches to injection, did you notice any type of change in progress, such as a growth spurt in some area? Just curious.

Nope. This is a myth. After 13 years doing pills, with an interlude of patches, I switched to weekly injections hoping for a coup de gras. I injected faithfully for 3 1/2 years with no changes. It is very easy to do and more convenient than any other of delivery. But, sometimes it becomes hard to get. The manufacturer sometimes halts production.

After the second spell of EV being in short supply, I went back to pills and have been back on them for 2 1/2 years now. I don’t know where the misconception that injections get better results came from but I bought into it. The truth is, if hormone levels are in the female range then your body will respond according to its unique genetic code, nothing more.

The goal of HRT is feminization of a male body, primarily breast growth. If there was a delivery method or a hormone cocktail that was proven to be more effective in growing breast, then ciswomen would be using it too. And, their bodies seemingly would respond better because the effects of testosterone would not be present. The vast majority of breast augmentations are on ciswomen, not transwomen.

[Joan_CD]

Thanks Jeri. Always wondered about that!

[VickyMI]

Same problem here but slightly different issue.

My 4 patches do not fall off but wrinkle, hence I do not get full coverage for 100% skin absorption to take place.

I am very active and play many sports so I sweat a lot. At my next Endo appt I’m going to ask about injection delivery. I hate needles but I think I’d rather be once a week poke and be done.

[Nikki.]

Nope. This is a myth. After 13 years doing pills, with an interlude of patches, I switched to weekly injections hoping for a coup de gras. I injected faithfully for 3 1/2 years with no changes. It is very easy to do and more convenient than any other of delivery. But, sometimes it becomes hard to get. The manufacturer sometimes halts production.

After the second spell of EV being in short supply, I went back to pills and have been back on them for 2 1/2 years now. I don’t know where the misconception that injections get better results came from but I bought into it. The truth is, if hormone levels are in the female range then your body will respond according to its unique genetic code, nothing more.

The goal of HRT is feminization of a male body, primarily breast growth. If there was a delivery method or a hormone cocktail that was proven to be more effective in growing breast, then ciswomen would be using it too. And, their bodies seemingly would respond better because the effects of testosterone would not be present. The vast majority of breast augmentations are on ciswomen, not transwomen.

I watched an interesting presentation by Dr. Will Powers. His intended audience was medical providers, so I didn’t understand it all. He goes into detail why some trans women get a spurt in breast development when switching to injections, and said it has to do with conversion of estradiol to estrone and competition for E receptors. I think. He also refuses to use anti-androgens, and suppresses T through E. He has around 1500 trans patients. There’s also a pretty technical subreddit about him.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fefu33e8O-0

[Leasa Wells]

I have been on Injections for 5 months and like the results so far. Fairly easy to administer once a week and I know how much I am getting. I have been worried about the patch, not that i have used it other than using them for quitting smoking years ago, they fell off.

My doctor has suggested moving to the patch, I am not in favor of it for the same reasons falling off. I am not sure if she will say take it or leave it I wont see her for a few more months. I think her concern is my levels are too high for my age and will better served with the patch. She says I should be at the same level as a women my age 62 and she sees my levels being higher right now.

[Katya@]

Nikki,
Thanks a bunch for sharing. I am 40 min in of the 2 hours and will definitely finish watching tomorrow. My best quote was the last: "The sore boob is the growing boob". Good to know that my never ending soreness is not for nothing ;)

[Dorit]

My doctor has suggested moving to the patch, I am not in favor of it for the same reasons falling off. I am not sure if she will say take it or leave it I wont see her for a few more months. I think her concern is my levels are too high for my age and will better served with the patch. She says I should be at the same level as a women my age 62 and she sees my levels being higher right now.

My doctor said the same thing, but she could be wrong. We as tans women have different needs. I shared my situation with the same Dr. Will Powers, he is amazing and was happy to have a text conversation with me. He says he keeps his older trans women in the 100-200 pg/ml range. They feel better. This is way above the the accepted post-menopause level for CIS women.

[Laura912]

Must point out the error in thinking that some endocrinologists have about HRT in trans women. Those trans women who take HRT are frequently older, but their age should not be used to determine the age equivalent doses of genetic females. Most trans women are teenagers when it comes to hormone doses. Many genetic female patients in their sixties wanted their hormone levels back where they were in their thirties. Just because the non genetic female is 60 does not mean her estrogen levels should be that of a 60 year old genetic woman. Slightly off topic but something to talk to your doctors about.

[Aunt Kelly]

I watched an interesting presentation by Dr. Will Powers. His intended audience was medical providers, so I didn’t understand it all. He goes into detail why some trans women get a spurt in breast development when switching to injections, and said it has to do with conversion of estradiol to estrone and competition for E receptors. I think. He also refuses to use anti-androgens, and suppresses T through E. He has around 1500 trans patients. There’s also a pretty technical subreddit about him.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fefu33e8O-0

Again, the "findings" of one physician, based on anecdotal evidence from a busy practice, should not be taken as anything more than a preliminary hypothesis. You know, something akin to a muttered, "Hmm... Now that's interesting." What this most definitely is not, is carefully controlled conducted medical research. Nor are we likely to see much of such research on our population. Finding a sample size large enough for for a controlled study, wherein all will have to understand that some of their lot will be the control group, would be, un

[Nikki.]

Which is why the only comment or opinion i proffered was the one you suggested- interesting. I do have other opinions about what he’s doing and what his personal goal may be. I do think it’s pretty cool he’s serving so many trans patients in a small office. It’s also not that unusual to avoid anti androgens and attempt to suppress T through high E. It was how it was done for years.

[Katya@]

Hi Aunt Kelly,

I watched carefully this video and will have some follow up questions with my Endo. Dr Powerd has prefaced his presentation saying that everything is off label and is preliminary when it comes to Transgender Health care. With that being said, some good research was done on difference in administration methods of hormones in 2005 as he pointed out, and it is really unclear why many providers choose to ignore it. My endo in fact id not ignoring it. Also, 1500 patients is a good sample size and they're not that many providers like him who are all in when it comes to treating us. For my endo, transgender care is a small part of his practice, as is the case for many others.

- - - Updated - - -

I asked my endo about it and he said that while he doesn't argue with results, he does question the approach, and said that he would only follow the evidence based approach per Endocrine Society. Anyways, at least I am happy that my approach is similar albeit with much much smaller doses.

[Aunt Kelly]

What part of "credible, peer reviewed, controlled study" is so hard to grasp? Sample size is important, but also only a part of what goes into credible research.
Honestly, I will be forever amazed that people can so fail to be discerning when it comes to healthcare that they'll latch onto a YouTube video as "evidence". It's not. Not even close.
To paraphrase Jeri Ann, there's a reason that breast augmentation surgery is the popular approach that it is; it's the only one that will result in larger boobs than your body's biochemistry will allow with "normal" hormone levels.

[Nikki.]

Who called it evidence? Who called it a carefully controlled scientific study? It’s a bit of a straw man to suggest anyone in this thread did. I wrote it was “interesting” and Katya mentioned it to her endocrinologist and wrote 1500 patients was a good sample size. :straightface:

[Jeri Ann]

This thread has gotten too far off track. Patty B. has requested that I thank everyone for your contributions. She may start another thread in the future if needed.