It's not all roses

[Maria 60]

Surprise, surprise it's not all roses out there, I won't get into to much detail but try to get it all in. Meet for breakfast with co-workers like almost every morning. This morning a co-working asked me if I could drop by one of is calls because he was having problems that maybe a veteran like myself can figure it out. He warned me when I come there they hired a new guy who is gay and is taking hormone pills, he has breast and that it looks like he wants to transform to a women and how discusting it is. Before I had a chance to comment another co-worker, I call him co-worker but he's more of a friend. He started when he was young and we are about 15 years apart and I have trained him to fill my boots when I retire in a few years. Him being younger I thought he would have more of a open mind instead he told me that he walked into a restaurant and seen two men holding hands in the line and he panicked and turned his family around before his son seen it. I couldn't help but laugh at how stupid he was and made a smart remark about thank God his son didn't see anything or his son would have been gay now. He said its not right and would be devastated if his son tells him he's gay. I guess everyone has there opinion and I explained that people don't learn to be gay, it's in them. My biggest question to him was that we worked 30 plus years together and been threw think and thin, worked, traveled with our families together and consider him a good friend. I asked him if I wanted to open up to anyone I would open up to him for advice and if I told him that I was gay would it change everything and how he felt about me. Would it erase everything we've have been threw, his response was that if it was me it would be different. I told him his opinions are his opinions and it shouldn't change just for me and I was so disappointed. I think my co-workers seen the disappointment I had with them and it seemed like the conversation went another direction. I went to the call and repaired the problem and I guess I was lucky the weird guy wasn't there today. I was very disappointed today, more because my friend being younger and probably more educated in this, that if I was to open up to anyone I thought he would be the one who would understand, boy was I wrong. That's two for two, I thought the same about my sister in law that I'm so close with, but she also make some bad comments towards us. I guess sometimes I read the stories here about people out and about and nothing happens and believe maybe the world is changing. I guess I was wrong and I've just taking one step back. Thanks for listening, I had to vent.

[Stephanie47]

I was just banging away on the keyboard on another thread about "self segregating." Maria, welcome to the real world. I have said many times tolerance does not mean acceptance. I made the point that many people who self segregate do so because they are not accepted by others. It may be race, religion or anything that makes a person different than oneself. Here, it is sexuality. Unfortunately, too many people are ignorant and wish to continue to be ignorant. You did the right thing to contest this ignorance. In the case of the parent with the child this non acceptance is learned. To me it is unsettling that a parent's love is so shallow as to kick a son or daughter to the curb like garbage because the child is a gay or lesbian. This country is not as progressive as people think. Welcome to the real world.

[Lacy PJs]

I suppose that it has a lot to do with the area in which you live. I'm sure that there are areas where people are more accepting and understanding. But it does take time for people to change; it isn't going to happen to everyone overnight. And even then, there will always be a few. After all of these years, we still have prejudices against certain groups because of their race, their religion, their skin color or a variety of other reasons. People will be people...

Lacy PJs

[Kelly-o]

I would keep in mind that people can feed off each other in a group setting of 3 or more people. Rare is the person that stands up to someone making those kinds of comments even if they don't really agree with them. People often just want acceptance of the group so sometimes they say what they think others want to hear. It's disappointing for sure but maybe you should not base your entire opinion of your friend on this one situation.

I personally would try and have a reasonable one on one someday with your friend about the subject if you can naturally bring it up. You will likely get the real scoop for better or worse.

[docrobbysherry]

I think Stephanie nailed it. "Tolerance is not acceptance.":brolleyes:

Those CD's who choose to dress to Walmart and Denny's? SA's and servers call u maam. And, most folks just look away. It's all great until u run up against a hater or just someone who woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Then, you'll get dumped on, or worse! If you're thin skinned and/or not ready for that? Do what I do. Don't dress out to vanilla venues!:thumbsup:

CD's have that choice. TS's don't!:straightface:

[Tracii G]

Tolerance is not acceptance that is for sure.

[Elizabeth1980]

I remember I guy I worked with, who in one setting was accepting of gay people, but in another setting was blatantly homophobic.
For example, he would be talking to a manager (who was a gay man), who was telling him about his same-sex relationship, his desire to marry and adopt kids etc. This person seemed to be open-minded and accepting, but I later heard him saying to his friend that ‘gay marriage is so wrong.’ I hate it when people are two-faced like that. I guess this ties in with what Kelly –O was saying about people saying the things that others want to hear at the time.

[alwayshave]

Maria, I make no assumptions about people who are younger necessarily being more accepting. I have a young associate in my firm who has made some very homophobic statements. To the point where it was necessary to have a discussion about such statements.

[MonicaPVD]

I'm glad you had the opportunity to vent here. Now, the unfortunate truth is that many people are very good at being ignorant or just meanspirited. There's no way around that. Try being black. Breaking news: being alive is not all roses.

[GaleWarning]

Things I have discovered down the years …
1. Bigotry is learned; it is not innate.
2. It is not easy to unlearn, in order to learn.
3. Age is not a reliable guide to attitudes.

[giuseppina]

One of the courses I took as part of my engineering degree was titled The Psychology of Prejudice.

You have it exactly right on all three counts, GaleWarning.

[Alice Torn]

Human nature is a mixture of good and evil. We all have been "haters" of something.

[Micki_Finn]

Where you live makes a big difference too. Some places have more open-minded populations than others.

[sometimes_miss]

I hate it when people are two-faced like that.
It's definitely an example of a very large group of people (in America, at least) who remain quiet because they know that their beliefs are now considered unacceptable in most public situations. However, due to recent events, it's now becoming more and more accepted to be completely 'out' about who they hate.


Human nature is a mixture of good and evil. We all have been "haters" of something.
I can't think of anything that I really hate, other than boiled vegetables. Yuck. As long as no one bothers me, live and let live.

[Rochal Tukque]

Hatred and bigotry are very comfortable bed fellows when learned young. But they?re exceptions maybe in fifty more years and a half dozen election cycles if we are able to have them. The exceptions will become the rule.

[Bobbi46]

Sadly this sort of thing will continue to happen, this is just the same problem I ran into with a friend here (only comes over for the summer) and he does not want me visiting him and his wife at their house dressed, guess what? I don't go there, he has lost a friend through his narrow minded outlook on life. Does it bother me? no not one bit because I have far more who have accepted me as I am now so losing the odd one along the way is not something to be worried about.

[Dannigirl]

If you really want to see how things have changed/not changed, check out the latest article about Meghan Fox and how she lets her son where dresses if he wants to. The article isn't the problem, it is the comments section that is always very troubling. I know, the internet isn't a great gauge of what most people are like but it is still scary and disturbing to see what some people think of this (male and female). I am always pretty careful when I go out and luckily haven't run into trouble and hopefully that day will never come.

[LilSissyStevie]

There is no evidence that I've ever seen that anyone has to learn how to hate, lie, steal or commit acts of violence. Rather, we take great effort attempting to teach our children not to do these things. Legislatures pass layers upon layers of laws to no avail in an attempt to force people to be good. Like it or not, civilization is a revolt against nature. Nothing could be more natural than the fear and loathing of weirdos and strangers. Survival often depends upon it. If you want to be accepted as "one of us" it's your responsibility to first show that you are not a threat. Or you can just bitch and complain about the injustice of it all.

[Maid_Marion]

Visitors to my office are almost invariably older white males. There is no getting around the fact that I am "different," but in a good way. I have done a lot of really hard stuff in my life and have the wallpaper and plaques on the wall to prove it!

My wife convinced me to put up my diploma and other stuff on the walls and she helped me one weekend. The brown nosing Marketing Manager was totally shocked when he saw it for the first time!

[Kandi Robbins]

Maria, the world absolutely is changing, but we have a very long way still to go!

[jennifer0918]

Thanks for the story and yes we still have plenty of more to go. I have had negative experiences from people within the community. But knock on wood I have been out en femme with no issues.

[BettyMorgan]

I suppose that it has a lot to do with the area in which you live. I'm sure that there are areas where people are more accepting and understanding.

Lacy PJs

Unfortunately, there are bigots everywhere. It would be great if they isolated themselves to one location, but sadly, they seem to spread and flourish especially where leaders do not openly condemn them.

[Jenny22]

LilSissyStevie.... When a baby is born, it's mind is a blank as to hate and the other things you mention. With the right (Golden Rule type) up bringing, it will learn "rightly." and Vice versa.

[LilSissyStevie]

The point is not that people are born hating anything specific but that they will hate something and they will feel totally justified in their hate. They may learn to hate Nazis but the next thing you know everybody they disagree with becomes a Nazi in their mind. It's just human nature. You might as well get used to it, it's not going to change. The best evidence for that is history. Acceptance and tolerance of LGBT type people had ebbed and flowed throughout history but it never sticks. And even if it did it would only be because people are too busy persecuting some other group(s). That's my optimistic view of humanity, you don't want to know what I really think.:sad:

[Jenny22]

LilSissyStevie..I hate lima beans and feel justified, as I've tried to eat them. Ditto with liver and onions. But that all became hates from my own experience. A child can only learn to hate this way or by the actions he sees or the words he hears from others. Period!

[abbiedrake]

Belonging is a very human need. It improves our survivability. But it's always predicated in someone not belonging, someone being 'other'. On this central dichotomy rests all human endeavour.

That won't be changed easily, obviously. People are way too unquestioning of their own attitudes on anything, much less the deeper baser motivations we might have.

Does that mean we stop trying? No.

The best was of mediating a broader idea of humanity is by openly living it.

To take an earlier point about people not speaking up in groups, I can guarantee you that I am the person who says something, who calls out the bullies and the BS. And guess what, every time I do the timid ones who keep shtumm have less room to hide and maybe will be emboldened by my demonstration they're not alone when they disagree with the cavemen.