The darker side of barhopping while dressed up.

[Sandi Beech]

Hello all,
For those who are newly venturing out into gay bar/dance club/drag show environments as a safe place to dress up, I would like to share some of my experiences. You may find it helpful. I had stated in my introduction a few days ago, I found that dressing up at gay bars to be a very positive and safe environment to socialize and meet other people while fully dolled up. It has really been great for the most part, but there can be some unexpected consequences so you should be prepared, and that's what I would like to share.

First off, it is rare to have any problems. Most people are very nice. Also, if you are not sure, you can go dressed as a man first, and talk to the bartender about dressing up. Show him or her some pictures. Most of the time they will say something like this ? ?oh you should have come dressed up tonight. You look good.? That is a good way to test the waters so to speak if you are unsure.

-Now for the darker side of things. When all dolled up, I am dressed to get attention - not ****ty (usually) but skirts that are a little short, fairly large breast forms, blond wig, and bright lipstick, etc. Obviously I am dressing for attention, and it works. When talking with GGs, I make is clear I am not hitting on them, and it paves the way for wonderful conversations. It?s great - but there will be some men who are attracted to you. Now I am not gay, but I am attracted to the person I see in my mirror at home so it is not surprising others might be as well. Trust me; the ring on the finger does not stop them. The thing I did not understand at first is that when a man puts his hand on your leg, you have to make approval or disapproval known immediately. Apparently, no response is seen as a positive response, and you are likely to have a hand going up your skirt quite quickly. A couple of GGs I talked with confirmed that notion. I am kind of weird in some way because I don't mind people touching my legs, etc. but I would NEVER touch someone without asking first. I think it was 4 times I have had men try to put their hands up my skirt to date. I don't think it is appropriate, but like I said I am not offended easily, so as long as they stop right away when asked, I am not freaked out over it. Just remember, once touched, you have to state what you allow or disallow or you will end up surprised. I am just giving you fair warning that if you appear attractive, you WILL be hit on at some point. Don't let it surprise you too much.

This brings me to what does offend me. This one guy was stinking intoxicated last Friday. I was talking with a couple of nice GGs at the bar, and he sits next to me and was blabbing something. He was so drunk it was hard to understand him, and the music was loud. One of the GG's asked me if she wanted me to get rid of him because she said she was good at it. I just waved her off because he was not annoying me yet. He got up and was tripping around with his shoes falling off. One of the GGs was telling him to pick them up before someone trips on them, so he trips and catches himself by grabbing her shoulders. I was close to intervening but held off because she fended him off nicely. He went away, and I did not think much about it much other than thinking that he was annoyingly intoxicated - way beyond being tipsy. Later I bump into the same guy in a hallway, and he wants a hug so I let him. The only thing, he is giving me a hard squeeze for what I considered too long while pressing himself into one of my boobs. I expected more like two pats on the back, and we are done. He immediately wants another hug, and I said - uh, no I am done with the free hugs. I knew what he was doing, I am not stupid. I was not drunk FYI. He then proceeds to try to hug me again, and now I am holding him off with one arm. Then he gets argumentative with me, while I am trying to walk away. He would not knock it off saying thing like "what, you don't like hugs, where I come from everyone likes hugs". Finally, in a quite loud and stern voice I had to say "You are lecturing me, and I do not appreciate it, our conversations are done, got it!" I was really PO'd at this point, and ready to go to security, but he did not follow me after that. Then when the club closed he was standing outside. As I was leaving, I told the door staff to keep an eye out to make sure nothing happened as I left. Nothing did, I walked out into the street to avoid getting close to him on the sidewalk full of people. I was ready to deck the guy as I am a foot taller and not intoxicated. Fortunately, he did not pursue me any further, but his blasted cologne got on ME and stunk me up like him. I prefer to smell like Poison Girl, ha ha.
In the end it worked out fine, but this kind of thing can happen although rarely. Just don't get intoxicated yourself and keep your cool. Hmm, that is another story I will have to tell you all about on another post.

Later folks ? I know it?s long ? maybe too long. I would appreciate your feedback comments as to whether you like hearing about such things in expanded detail. After all, I can?t tell anyone else about it because it?s DADT right?

Sandi

[AllieSF]

Thanks for sharing. One of your greatest defenders is the bartender and his staff. They have regular customers and want them coming back. They know how to get unwanteds out of their bar. Just say hello and when in need go tell them what is the problem. Most, if not all, have your back in regular bars, straight or LGBT friendly.

[Sandi Beech]

Hey Allie, Thanks, you know I agree with you 100%. I realize many people might not be able to do this, but I tip very well. The bartenders who have gotten to know me pay me attention, because I usually tell them to keep the change for a 20 when the drink is only 7 or so. I had to go to the bathroom once, and my female bartender said, let me keep your drink behind the bar until you get back, She said you can't be too careful. I was very appreciative for that kind of support.

[Robertacd]

Now you know what GG's have to deal with.

I have also had to deal with some unwanted attention from a GM a few weeks ago. Thanks to having good friends that look out for me, I was able to go to the restroom and they got rid of him while I was gone.

[Sandi Beech]

Hi Roberta, yes I now have a much better understanding about what really goes on in GG's world. I would like to think I am a better person for having been more enlightened. Also, wow. That must have been a little awkward for you. You just never know when to expect unwanted attention.

Sandi

[Micki_Finn]

Ha, you got off easy darlin?! It gets MUCH worse. I?ve been followed to my car, grabbed, groped... you got ?don?t you like hugs??, that?s beginner level. Usually it?s ?b?h? or ?c?t? or ?w?-e?. A lot of guys get scary mad when they get rejected.

ALWAYS DEFEND YOUR PERSONAL SPACE! Do not ever let men touch you uninvited. If it?s not your ?dignity? they?re after, it might be your purse! Also never accept drinks from strangers. If a guy is asking for a hug, he?s basically asking for sex. Any inch you give a guy, he?ll probably take a mile. Try to never be alone. Sticking with friends reduces your chances of getting hit on by creeps.
Sorry your eye-opening experience had to be so rude, but at least now you have an idea of what it?s like.

[Patience]

Glad you got through the experience ok and became wiser for it.

In our outings dressed, we need to be prepared for the expected and the unexpected. If one dresses to get attention in a place where people can become intoxicated, it is to be expected one would get attention from intoxicated people. Not that it should be anticipated; just that the odds of it happening are better than 50%.

One good tip I got in these situations is to have one's cell phone handy and hit "record" whenever you run into a situation where someone's behavior may need to be documented.

Good luck in all your future outings. I like your handle.

[Jenny22]

Sandi, thanks for sharing. I've only been to one bar dressed (Mary's in Long Beach), and had no worries. The time may come when I will. Your story and Micki's comments will help girls like me when we do. Other examples of experiences will only add to that.

[Sandi Beech]

Thanks Patience
For Micki, geez. I hope to not get followed, that would really give me the creeps more than anything. I did get groped up my skirt 4 times, but they all quit when I told them to knock it off. It's the ones that won't quit that cause me more concern. I think I mentioned it on one of the Halloween posts - my Uber driver was staring with a look that freaked me out when I reviewed my security camera video from that night. I did have a really wild outfit on since I was at a rocky horror live show. I am glad he didn't try to follow me into my house. I had too much to drink to drive safely that night, but I had a lot of fun.

[Tracii G]

Don't be lulled in to a false security thinking gay bars are totally safe.
Men + alcohol equals trouble no matter where you are.
Just a tip for you:
Gay guys go to gay bars to mingle with other gay guys not straight guys dressed as women.

[ellbee]

Not to bash some men (or women, who may have their own unique skill-set of predation ;) ), but I will say this about clubbing/bar-hopping while en femme...


*Always* go with at least one other person!

Seriously, there is safety in numbers. Even if y'all are in heels.


And if hanging with a gaggle of CD'ers or whatever ain't exactly your cup of tea? Having experienced GG's who are well-versed in the nightlife scene as your social group is truly a God-send. They know what's up, for sure, on all sorts of levels. :thumbsup:


Heck, for further deterrence/protection, you may also want to include a male-presenting guy or two... Gay, straight, doesn't matter. I say that, because, among other purposes, you can always utilize his services as your pretend date/boyfriend for the night, if need be.
(:doh: "Oh, no! Me?" - :heehee: "Yes, you, hon!" )

No joke! I've had to do this before. And it works.



And coming full circle? I leave you with this.

Potential danger comes in all shapes & sizes, after all... ;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8SkWRFHCGc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8SkWRFHCGc

[Macey]

Kim, I'm with you, I'm pretty thrilled when a book follows me home and gets in bed with me

[Sandi Beech]

Traci. Hey there. I hear what you are saying. In fact I was talking to a guy next to me the other night. He told me his type was the big hairy dudes - so I was safe around him. We just had casual conversation like you would anywhere else. It took a while for me to get comfortable in that environment while dressed, but now I think it is great most of the time. I am just more wary after this incident.

And for kimdl93. I am old enough but never really watched that show for some reason. I do know what you mean. I like using Uber so I can get dropped off right at the door of where I am headed - no walking to the parking lot. The only drawback - those drivers know where I live, and the only one that gave me a little concern was Halloween night. Cops were everywhere, so I felt better having them drive. I sure as hell won't drive while dressed even if I have only one drink. I also make sure I have all my things in order. Drivers license, insurance, registration, etc.

PS. I finally figured out how to get my avatar working. Those are the shoes I bought the other day. Cute eh ?

Sandi

[alwayshave]

Sandi, I have been chatted up in gay clubs, but never touched in the manner you recounted. Doesn't matter where, when some people are drunk, they are just jerks.

[Alice Torn]

I have never been into any bar or restaurant or club dressed up. Alcohol causes many people to push the envelope and do things they wouldn't do sober. So, part of me would like to try going into a club as Alice, but part of me is afraid of unwanted attention, and how i would handle it. I would like to dance as a lady sometime. But, i cannot stand extremely loud music, and i like old music and not today's noise.

[Sandi Beech]

Hi Alice,

Out of the 17 gay bars I have visited around the county, I would say only half of them have a large noisy dance floor. The larger bars are compartmentalized
so you just have to check out the different areas and hang out in the ones that suit you. I recently had fun at Legends in Raleigh which is a good example. A GG I met took me over
and knocked on a secret door, and they let us in this hidden bar room. It had a prohibition theme. It was quiet and friendly in there. We had a couple of drinks and some good
laughs.

I hear ya on the music though. I date back to KC and the Sunshine band. Now that I think about it, I have only danced with women, and it has been a lot of fun. Last Saturday in my home town, a GG had me trying to move my hips the way she was. People were watching us, and yelling out "yeah". It was a hoot. FYI, I am still sore.

Anyhow, my intention was not to keep people from going to gay bars, because it has been a lot of fun for me. You just have to be aware. I am much more afraid of going to a place with a lot of teens or redneck types. Needless to say you won't see me at a monster truck rally dressed up.

Sandi

[Patience]

Strange as it may sound, I think attending a monster truck rally would be a hoot.

Maybe a group could be created: "Monster Truck Trannies", or something like that. It would not be worse than the Freedom Riders in the south during the Civil Rights era.

Nice avatar, btw. It's funny how so many of us start with our feet and work our way up. I did that too. Lol.

[Tracii G]

Do a monster truck thing if you want because nobody cares really.
They are there to see the trucks crash so they won't pay any attention to you.
I have been to tractor pulls and mud bog thingies and always had a great time.
Lots of girls there too so you will be one of the hundreds of girls there.

[AngelaYVR]

When I started going out I did the gay bar scene for a while. These days it is just regular bars and I get to know the owner/ staff so I do not have any problems. I was asked out last night, very politely, by a guy who saw me buying groceries. I let him down gently! But I appreciated the civility of the exchange. Getting away from the clubs certainly minimizes the bad experiences. I still remember getting a hole in a stocking from an unwelcome rough hand.

[vplshowoff]

kimdl93 Michael Warren was the black patrol officer. He was a star guard at UCLA during the Lew Alcindor aka Kareem Jabar era.

Be careful out there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pIkkzDagsY

[faltenrock]

Sandi,

Thanks for your detailed experiences.

As a CD who's been going out to all the places you mentioned, I can more than 100 % confirm your experiences.
Form my own long time personal experience - things can get even worse....

Some examples:
Two years ago I left a club late in the morning. The club owner and bartenders know me very well and appreciate me as a person and customer, they are very protective for my security.
However, as I was leaving the club to walk the 100 yards to my car, I noticed a guy outside watching me come out the club.
Thanks to my many experiences, I knew on the spot that this guy waited for me to come out the club (he actually didn't talk to me in the club).
I didn't look back walking to my car but I knew he was follwoing me, it was still dark.
Once I got into my car I locked it in a second as I saw the guy coming closer to my car.
He approached my window and asked me if I wanted to kiss with him....
I said no and left.

Another one:

I do a lot of shopping and walking in cities during daylight when it's crowded. There have been multiple times when I realized that a guy wa following me. Usually when that happens I walk into a store and stay there for a while looking at stuff.

And another one here:

I visited Antwerpen in Belgium with my wife in summer 2018. During a business trip to London by car, I stopped in the city for one night. Antwerpen has a gay district which I visited as they have a bar with drag shows. The show started late that night and I took a table outside accross the bar in another bar/cafe.
After some time, a GG came up to me and sked if she could sit next to me. We started having a very nice and intense conversation, a younger women also took a seat next to me. During the whole talks, my dressing up dind't come up for one time, which is unusual.
However, a guy came to our table and close to me and put his hand on my knee asking for a cigarette. Normally I don't have a problem with that if the hand goes away fast.
The lady next to me (44 years old) responded in a second, telling the guy thatv he can't touch a woman like that.
The guy took another table and sat down and watched us / me, shorty after he started masturbating. That was weird as there were quite a few other people around. This guy looked like an immigrant, he was not Belgian.
I just continued talking to the two ladies on my side and didn't look at the guy anymore.

All these things and much more can happen when you walk out into the public as a crossdresser / transgendered person.

One thing is definetely true. Whenever a guy is watching you - he has something going on and in most cases that guy will start talking to you. usually it doesn't take more than one or two minutes unteil he'll ask if he could touch your legs - if they ask at all.

The good:

Over the many years of going out in public, you can build up a lot of experience which might lead up to a general caution, concentration and awareness whenever you walk out the door.
In almost all cases, I spot an 'admirer' from a far distance within a ery short time.
Fortunately nothing ever happened to me.

One important advise:

Whenever you go out, try to show as much confidence of who you are as possible. Don't give people any doubt that you are a serious person and you can face almost any situation.

This year I had a car accident while dressed up. That happened in the Netherlands in a city that I know very well at 11 PM. The accident happened to be an 'on purpose' accident. Someone was waiting for me to get the right of way. The driver and his co-driver were about 22 years old and obviously immigrants. within two minutes, there were about 10 other young immigrants next to the spot and close to my car.
Once the police arrived, they took all paperwork and personal data and I've been out the car for 20 or more minutes, wearing a dark blue lace dress, heels.
I tell you, the police ( one GG and a guy) were totally professional, no stare or word about my gender or dressing.
During that one hour in total, I acted as normal as I would when dressed as a guy.

Cnfidence is the clue to most situations you might come accross.

For those who want to start going out like some of us do, be prepared and take all advices in this threat and and take them seroius. But don't let any of that be in the way of your desire to go out.

[Rogina B]

Two years ago I left a club late in the morning. The club owner and bartenders know me very well and appreciate me as a person and customer, they are very protective for my security.
However, as I was leaving the club to walk the 100 yards to my car, I noticed a guy outside watching me come out

Whenever you go out, try to show as much confidence of who you are as possible. Don't give people any doubt that you are a serious person and you can face almost any situation.


Being aware of your surroundings and reacting to them as a genetic woman would. Most wouldn't walk 100 yards like that !That is what a tip pressed into the hand of the doorman is for !

[MonicaPVD]

Imagine that. The perils of being a woman. Pro tip: Don't let drunk jerks anywhere near you. Certainly don't let then actually touch you. Carry on!

[char GG]

Imagine that. The perils of being a woman. Pro tip: Don't let drunk jerks anywhere near you. Certainly don't let then actually touch you. Carry on!

This is absolutely correct! Allowing anyone to touch you may give you a little thrill but it could go all wrong quickly. I would certainly not let anyone touch me if they weren't invited to do so.

[Jean 103]

I would certainly not let anyone touch me if they weren't invited to do so.

Yes, there you go.

Women hug, it is something I had to get use to, as most all my friends are GGs.

The only men I hug are friends that I know it is ok. I'm popular, if a man shows me affection he runs the risk of being branded gay, it's happened. The next day it was all over town and he was upset.

[ellbee]

Imagine that. The perils of being a woman.


At least men don't have to fear any danger!


Oh, wait...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5ZAmxXkNAY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5ZAmxXkNAY

[docrobbysherry]

Hugging a strange, drunk, jerk? Letting random guys touch your legs? Your just asking for trouble!:sad:

Those were the only dark sides in your experience, Sandi? Then, you've never been followed and really frightened by a strange man who could easily over power u as Micki and I have!:eek:

[Helen_Highwater]

The posts here are talking about being approached by drunk strangers and the perils that can bring but I also think it's worth commenting that it's not a good idea to have too much to drink yourself. You can find yourself doing something that you wouldn't do stone cold sober. The odd glass here and there over the course of an evening yeah but doing rounds of shots is taking you into dangerous territory.

I know we all should be free to do as we want but sadly it's the case that for even GG's they have to keep their wits about them. Too many of them end up in a liaison at the end of the night that the next morning is a blurred, vague memory, a memory they try to forget.

[Jodie_Lynn]

Hello all,

-Now for the darker side of things. When all dolled up, I am dressed to get attention - not ****ty (usually) but skirts that are a little short, fairly large breast forms, blond wig, and bright lipstick, etc. Obviously I am dressing for attention, and it works.
Sandi

Sooooo, you dress to attract attention, and are offended because drunk men make advances????

And how dense do you have to be to NOT realize that if a guy puts his hand on your thigh, he is hoping to get intimate?????

And, not for nothing, if you are hanging around in bars, you should expect to find drunk people.

I've been in bars, and nightclubs of the straight and also gay varieties. It took no time at all to realize that guys + alcohol = bad behavior. Now maybe, you have a teeny tiny taste of what women have to put up with.

[Sandi Beech]

For Jodie. Actually, I only posted my experience for the benefit of those who have not ventured out into this space while dressed. Not everyone has done so. I am quite analytical so I knew exactly what I was doing. Most who hit on me were not drunk, and I even made friends with one couple after the fact. Only once did it elevate to the point I became angry out of many outings. My only real mistake is that I have let myself drink too much a few times. That is probably what has put me at the most risk.

Sandi

[Genifer Teal]

I was recently out near nyc. I go to this place all the time. Pretty sure the staff all know me though there's a quick turnover. Most nights I'm surrounded by friends. This night I was sitting at the bar I didn't want to give up my seat. I was with one person I kind of knew. This big tall guy comes over to me. Greasy hair, no attempt to dress neat, and pretty drunk. Tells me how beautiful I am and starts touching my leg. This guy wouldn't leave. I kept ignoring him and refused a drink offer. After maybe 15 min of him only backing away alittle them coming right back, some other friends arrived and I went over by them. It didn't take long for him tor follow. I sat in the middle of that group. He still didn't go away but I had a wall of protection. Lol. The bouncer was not far from this location. I realised it was time to say something. Before doing so. I told the guy directly to go away. I'm not interested. He walked away for the moment. I went to the bouncer and told him the situation. He wanted to react right away. I told him only if he comes back. Sure enough he did and the bouncer escorted him out. Problem solved. The nicest part was 15 min later another bouncer checked with me to see if everything was OK. In retrospect, I should have said something sooner. I wanted to be nice about it and thought he'd take the hint. The women I've talked to say that's often not the case. I never felt threatened or scared i just wanted the situation to disippate on its own. Thanks to the staff for being so nice.

[SnowW]

I'd imagine that must have been a an annoyance dealing with him. For me that's really my biggest issue with being out in public, safety concerns.