Wishing you were a woman vs gender dysphoria

[JulesLynne]

Ok girls, this is more of a philosophical pondering and I?m not sure if it?s better here in the CD forum or in the TS forum. But I?m a CD so I?m posting it here. I?d definitely like to hear from some of the TG women as well though.

I wouldn?t describe myself as having gender dysphoria... I?m OK with my male side and don?t feel disconnected from it. But at the same time, I feel like I ?want? to be a woman at times. I definitely don?t feel ?trapped? in a man?s body or born into the wrong body. CDing seems to provide me with a mechanism to temporarily become a woman, and it?s very stress relieving for me. But at the end of the day, I still wish that I could become a perfect woman. Does this make me cross the lines into the TG/gender dysphoria side? I?ve seen a lot of CDs who end up making the permanent gender transition and just curious what their path of self discovery really looks like. And I?ll be honest... I?m afraid of being TG. If I?m daydreaming, I?m thinking about what it would be like to wear a cute outfit that some woman is wearing, or I?m thinking about makeup or heels or something along those lines. Lately I find my mind spending a lot more time embracing the pink fog, yet I find comfort in being a normal guy 90% of the time.

Any other girls relate to this? It?s not about the clothes (well, it kinda is). It?s not about a sexual kink (even though presenting as a beautiful woman is undeniably sexy). It?s really about becoming a woman (even though I don?t want to permanently become a woman).

I?m full of inner conflict but somehow I think I?m not alone here.

[Kelly DeWinter]

Interesting thread;

Personally for me it's never been about the clothes. I've always felt more comfortable in the traditional female role,presentation etc. I know that if I had the ability and the option, I would feel much better . I don't 'wish' to become a perfect woman, I would be happy to be accepted as I am. I have become comfortable with myself and the only time I feel uncomfortable is when other make me anxious.

[AlyssaS]

I have body dysphoria --- I want the soft skin, the breasts, the waist/hips, etc. But gender dysphoria --- not really. I like being a guy down there, and don't want to be female at all.

[Tracii G]

When one over thinks things thats when the conflict problems start.

[Nikki.]

Yes, thinking in general, and particularly self-analysis and self-reflection is bad, and probably the work of the devil. Avoid if possible.

[Lana Mae]

I would suggest a counselor/therapist to help you sort all of this! They ask you the right questions to find your own answers! Just my $0.02! Hugs Lana Mae

[docrobbysherry]

Actually, I can relate to your post, Jules. I struggled with wanting to become a female for over 10 years!:battingeyelashes:

Rite up until the day my full, female, silicone suit arrived! When I saw myself as a naked female, with boobs and vagina I practically fainted dead away. Within a week, all thots of becoming female disappeared. Apparently, I'm simply a CD who wants to appear to be pretty, sexy, woman sometimes! :daydreaming:

And, as u can see from my pics, I can and do!:heehee:

[Deborah2B]

Jules Lynne there are many levels on the CD spectrum. Some just want to wear a lttle something feminine such as panties and nothing beyond that. Some want to become a woman full time, so much so that they do HRT and have SRS. THere is a whole bunch of choices in between these two points.

I am a guy that enjoys being a guy and doing "guy things". I also enjoy dressing up as a woman every once in a while and feeling very feminine. My desire is to make my presentation a tribute to women. I try to dress beautifully but still blend in as much as possible. When I can do this I feel very relaxed. Being able to do a full and convincing presentation can be a wonderful feeling.

I am lucky that I can wear XL women's blouses. Dresses are usually an 18 or XL. Pants and skirts I can go smaller with a 12. I am real luck as far as women's shoes. I have a very narrow foot for a guy. I can wear women's size 9 shoes. Thanks to my genetic background I do not have a lot of body hair. Getting a clean shave on my face is a pain in the rear end though.

Jules Lynne just enjoy being yourself and doing what makes you happy.

[Aunt Kelly]

Ok girls, this is more of a philosophical pondering and I?m not sure if it?s better here in the CD forum or in the TS forum. But I?m a CD so I?m posting it here. I?d definitely like to hear from some of the TG women as well though.

I wouldn?t describe myself as having gender dysphoria... I?m OK with my male side and don?t feel disconnected from it. But at the same time, I feel like I ?want? to be a woman at times. I definitely don?t feel ?trapped? in a man?s body or born into the wrong body. CDing seems to provide me with a mechanism to temporarily become a woman, and it?s very stress relieving for me. But at the end of the day, I still wish that I could become a perfect woman. Does this make me cross the lines into the TG/gender dysphoria side? I?ve seen a lot of CDs who end up making the permanent gender transition and just curious what their path of self discovery really looks like. And I?ll be honest... I?m afraid of being TG. If I?m daydreaming, I?m thinking about what it would be like to wear a cute outfit that some woman is wearing, or I?m thinking about makeup or heels or something along those lines. Lately I find my mind spending a lot more time embracing the pink fog, yet I find comfort in being a normal guy 90% of the time.

Any other girls relate to this? It?s not about the clothes (well, it kinda is). It?s not about a sexual kink (even though presenting as a beautiful woman is undeniably sexy). It?s really about becoming a woman (even though I don?t want to permanently become a woman).

I?m full of inner conflict but somehow I think I?m not alone here.

No. That's a fantasy, and a fairly common one. Nothing wrong with it, but that's not gender dysphoria if you are "OK" with your male side... maybe. I would have said the same thing, and frequently did, right up to the point in therapy where I finally came to grips with who I really am.
My advice is to stick with what works for you now, if it really does work for you. Your life will be happier and less complicated. :)

[Pumped]

I believe most of us have gender dysphoria to some degree, some more, some less. On the other hand I don't think you have to have the desire to be a woman to have it. A trace of dysphoria and you are a guy in a dress, full on dysphoria and you want to transition.

Ever since I was a child I didn't fit in with the guys, but of course I shouldn't fit in with the girls either, but in some ways I did. I also have no desire to transition but certainly enjoy dressing.

[Samm]

Jules, I can relate to everything in your post. But no, I don't see it as a just a fantasy, as posted in Aunt Kelly's reply.
Have I, and do I have fantasies? Of course. But feeling the way I feel inside is not one of them. That is... feeling like I'm a mixture of both m&f, rather than one or the other.

[Robertacd]

You sound like me most of my life... The inner conflict went away once I accepted that I was transgender.

[mbmeen12]

You are not alone and this web site helps us walking the thin pink line....

[pamela7]

Hi JulesLynne,

I'm from the TS side. There are "away-from" people and "towards" people, and also people who are "both" - stick or carrot, really. While most of the TS will be in the strongly-dysphoric side of "away-from", there are those, like myself, being a super-positive person, who lean instead in the "omg i feel so much better and my true self like this" category. Just cos you don't have the same level of away-from problems as others does not invalidate your sense of desire to be female.

Your sense of being comfortable as a male 90% of the time is also what you're used to. A woman can be equally comfortable in mens clothing. For myself, the real thing was "seeing the real me looking back in the mirror". Yeah, I could have survived as a male i guess if i'd never tred on those clothes, but once pandora's box was opened, only Pam was going to exist. You see, we're so good at denial, that we can hide the truth, also also the unwanted feelings of self-dislike, of body dislike, and they might only appear as overweight or other problems such as drinking or health-harming activities.

[Vikky]

Hi JulesLynne
I can relate to your post. I like being a guy and enjoy loads of guy activities etc, but also revert to the femme in me from time to time, especially when I am on my own in the house. Just to get the femme ?feel? if I get an hour at home I will put on a bra and forms under drab for a spell, and maybe a skirt. If I get longer I will adopt my alter ego and really feel feminine for longer with all the usual underpinnings and dress properly. As I have posted before I regularly sleep in bra, forms, nightdress. But then its back to normality. I hope this helps.
Vikky

[VS Fan]

I can relate to this completely. I don’t have the classic defined symptoms of feeling trapped in the wrong body, etc - and I don’t believe I *am* a woman... but I definitely wish I was one.... but that’s largely I think due to my self perceived failures as a man (despite not really having any). CDing fills (or attempts to fill) vast emotional holes for me and my wishing to be a woman probably is a lie to myself that if I were one those emotional voids would be fulfilled permanently. I don’t believe it and would have to sacrifice way too much to even dress full time etc. So I simply have to accept a certain level of misery to maintain the status quo and hope that I can find some enjoyment in life somehow.... not a great recipe for happiness, but it is what it is.

[donnalee]

I never felt that I really had to identify what I thought or did as one or the other. I am who I am and do the things I do and if someone wants to make a judgement that's fine, just don't involve me.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Jules Lynne :hugs:, I just enjoy having the Best of both worlds. >Orchid .oO:daydreaming:Oo.

[Stephanie too]

You're definitely not alone here. I can 100% relate to your post. I personally feel we continue to grow as we continue to question ourselves. I also believe a rich life has many chapters. For me this is a new chapter as I explore why I feel the way I do as a CD. I don't believe my journey will end as a TG woman but I remain open to all possibilities and continue to enjoy the ride. For me, anyway, I feel most alive when I'm actively involved with self discovery. Enjoy the journey.

[BTWimRobin]

I am quite happy being myself. Sure I fantasize about having natural curves. Honestly, it's all about the clothes for me..

[GretchenM]

There is no clear boundary between CD and TG and in many classifications CD is a subcategory of TG which is the all encompassing blanket that basically includes anybody with gender issues. One difference though is that with CD it tends to be more about the physical expression (the clothes) and with TG it involves gender reversed behaviors and identity irrespective of the clothes, either continuously or intermittently. But, again, you can't draw a line that divides these two categories. Because it is a complex of characteristics, categorizing is actually pretty pointless except at the most generalized level.

I am a lot like you. I bounce around a great deal, but generally my dressing is preceded by the feminine feelings. With CDs there seems to a vague pattern where the dressing is done to produce the feminine feelings. Again, the categories are vague and they my be defined and distinguished more by cherry picking the data than reality.

The point is, I would recommend not paying a whole lot of effort in trying to figure out which you are as you will likely come up with a concept one day that will change the next day. Complex behaviors tend to be that way. I think it is more important, at the personal level, to try and define what you do in achieving your comfort level based on what works and ignore any labels. You, like everyone else, are unique and I think it is a mistake to try and comply with this or that classification. My dear wife says, "Just be you." Unfortunately, her definition of me is not entirely consistent with my definition of me. And that is due to the colossal complexity of identity. Is it an issue? Some, but compromising in various ways helps keep the dust settled.

Even gender dysphoria, although easy to define, is hard to diagnose as its expression varies all over the map. Some just totally freak out when dysphoria hits while others just put on a little lipstick or a pair of panties and they are fine. There is nothing wrong with this variability. No two of us exhibit the same behavior patterns and reactions to what we sense and experience deep, deep inside of us. Do what is comfortable but at the same time be considerate of the fact that not everyone even remotely understands what we deal with because they do not have gender variability. You can't really explain it so they will fully understand it - you must experience it to understand it. So we need to be considerate of their confusion and find a middle ground where we can be ourselves while not making them uncomfortable. That is a difficult and delicate task and with the complexity of the behavior hitting the bull's eye is next to impossible.

[Soriya]

I can relate to this completely. I don?t have the classic defined symptoms of feeling trapped in the wrong body, etc - and I don?t believe I *am* a woman... but I definitely wish I was one.... but that?s largely I think due to my self perceived failures as a man (despite not really having any). CDing fills (or attempts to fill) vast emotional holes for me and my wishing to be a woman probably is a lie to myself that if I were one those emotional voids would be fulfilled permanently. I don?t believe it and would have to sacrifice way too much to even dress full time etc. So I simply have to accept a certain level of misery to maintain the status quo and hope that I can find some enjoyment in life somehow.... not a great recipe for happiness, but it is what it is.

This!

A lot of us have gone through what you describe at different points in our lives. I personally have never had any body dysphoria or ever felt like I was in the wrong body but have also wondered what life would be like as a women and sometimes have wished I was. As a man I have always felt like something was missing, been that way for as long as I can remember. The best way to describe it is I have never felt complete if that makes sense. As Soriya I have noticed that a lot of the happiness I feel are the feelings I am missing as a man. Of course that has had me think often if I am supposed to be a women but like VS Fan mentioned I can't dismiss that as a man I have endured a lot of negativity, physically and especially mentally. Looking at my dressing through my life I also realized that when the Pink Fog came knocking it was always during times of extreme loneliness. When I was in a relationship and things were going good, dressing was basically an afterthought and never came up, never really thought about it actually. When things started going South the Pink Fog started rolling back in.

The older and wiser (I hope) I have become and the more I let go of past baggage I have noticed a lot of those 'missing' feelings as a man are starting to disappear.

[Rachel Anne]

I've always known something was up, even as a kid. But societal and parental pressures were too strong. Even today, if I had the same parents/family, it would have been near impossible had I just been looking out for myself. Yes, the feelings were pretty strong, but never strong enough to override the rest. Had circumstances been different, who knows.

[Alice Torn]

You described me, too. i totally relate. I wish i could turn a switch to go back and forth sometimes. I am a 65 year old bachelor that never had a mate, and have struggled with this same thing for many decades. I know i can never be a lady, but i sometimes escape my male predicament by becoming the tall, older gorgeous lady for short fun moments, and i do have sexual arousement form her in the mirror, but with low T now, not so much as in the past. I could not be a perfect woman though, or perfect man. I try for excellence much, and to stay humble.

[Jenny22]

JL, you described my past. It was gender dysphoria, though I didn't know there was a name for until much later in life. I've fully accepted my being a strong TG. You appear to be a CD+ to a -TG, and that's OK. Be who you are, and you'll learn who you are.

[Teresa]

JulesLynne ,
I wonder if we can wish to be a woman without GD ? Maybe it is a personal point of view but knowing GD is my driving force it's not so much wishing to be a woman as being compelled by GD .

Perhaps we should drop the labels so the confusion over where we do pose the question isn't a problem .

I feel part of your question is from a CDer's perspective but you do admit that yourself , talking of the perfect woman in cute outfits isn't the RW , very few of us do reside on pedestals but that's where many CDers place women living a perfect lifestyle .

Being and admitting you're TG is wonderful for me now but you have to be free to discover it , there's nothing scary about it but if you genuinely live your life 90% as a guy you may never discover what lies beyond days of pink fog and wearing heels and cute clothes . I will add the clothes are part of the equation as they are for most GGs , it's a matter of learning what is appropriate tempered with what style you choose to appear as . Clothes do make a statement about people , they can say so much about status , feelings , emotions , I'm sure there are other descriptives , women have the benefit of being able to say more about themselves in their choices .

Dysphoria to some is emotionally destructive , nothing will solve that until they have fully transitioned but as Gretchen points out there are levels of it , it's just a case of finding what provides that balance in your life , if that's possible even in a DADT situation .

My female trait gives me dysphoria , I prefer to be seen and accepted as a woman , my body is my body but I don't hate it , I guess I just ignore the maleness but it's shape does work well as a female , I've found my balance by being out full time as Teresa , Marcelle called it social transition . I don't see hormones or surgery will change my life sufficiently now, OK daily tucking is a nuisance at times and perhaps more than 50% in my bra would be lovely but being out everyday those thoughts aren't there , I'm living my life as I prefer to be and the great thing is I'm accepted as such .

[Alice Torn]

Teresa, i respectfully disagree on transition being the only way to solving the emotional conflict. of Dysphoria. I admit the conflict is terrible, but some of us have just had to accept our difficulties, and be part timer dressers. Life is tough for many who transition, too, and some have ended it all. I know i can never be a full real 100% woman. We each are a bit different and in different life situations. My life would be far worse, if i did transition/

[NancyJ]

I will add to those who have suggested that crossdressing and some level of gender dysphoria or what I often think of as “gender envy” is part of the transgender continuum. Although I wish I was a woman (physically and socially) every day, I will never transition, and I manage my life and my roles as a male. Acknowledging to myself that I am transgender has helped me understand myself. Underdressing daily and dressing more fully on occasion helps me stay balanced. To me, wishing to be a woman and gender dysphoria are synonymous. The only reason labels are important, though, is if they help you understand and accept yourself. Nancy

[April Rose]

I would like to be a woman, but I don't need to be a woman.

[Star01]

I have been reading this thread how many started as crossdressers and realized later on that they are tg along with the thread asking what do closet cd's do for fun. As a closet cd that got me to thinking, did being out and free to dress when and as they pleased hasten the realization that they were tg? It appears to me from what some of you said about your own experiences that for many of us closeted cd's more freedom might send us on that unexpected path. Forgive me if I'm off base but I recently started paying serious attention to this group and am still gathering information and trying to find some direction. I guess for lack of a better description I'm at a "now where do I take this" crossroads.

[SophyV]

You described me, too. i totally relate. I wish i could turn a switch to go back and forth sometimes.

This is me too. i consider myself an average Joe. But sometimes want the attention an average Jane would get.

Jules,
I am still new to allowing myself to explore these feelings and urges. At the same time, I agree with those who council you to talk to someone who can help you sort these things out.

[Teresa]

Alice,
I'm taking care not to say ALL only SOME , as I remarked on Gretchen's comment . I know some don't agree to levels of dysphoria but our brains all funtion in slightly different ways, the chemical balance or inbalance is different in each of us .

[Aunt Kelly]

Star,
It's probably more complicated in many cases. Speaking only for myself, I had plenty of opportunity to explore my gender identity, 20+years, but it was not until I entered therapy that finally came to grips with it. I had sought therapy for symptoms that I would eventually learn were a manifestation of my GD. Up that point I readily identified as CD or gender fluid. You'd think it would be a short leap from there to TS, right? Not so much, it turns out.

Therapy can be shortcut to understanding our gender identity, but you have do the work, no matter where you end up.

[Alice Torn]

Teresa, So true.

[Felicia M]

Lovely and interesting thread.

I can definitely relate.

Lately I have had many internal discussions on this and the best metaphor I could come up with are tides of the ocean. At absolute ebb tide (low) I seem fine being my male self and don't have any real inclination to present as female. I am not perfectly fine with everything. Deep down I hear the whirring but I also love being a father and husband and try to stay in the moment. Then the flood begins. It is slow at first. I think about presenting but it is only a small voice. Then the flood tide gets higher and higher. It becomes overwhelming in the later stages and at high tide I want to dress all the time. I have also noticed that as I mature in this and keep testing my boundaries that flood and high tides seem to last longer and longer. At flood tide I definitely have thoughts that I am completely out of balance with my birth sex. I would love to be a woman. The dysphoria is strong.

Another good reason to equate with water and the tides is that every time I think I have a good sense of where I am at in the journey something changes. As the tide goes out the sand at the bottom has shifted and has exposed new things and covered up others. At least for me it is really important not to be rigid in my thinking. I have to remain flexible as so much is in flux. This really helps me keep from being in conflict internally and be open to evolving.


Even gender dysphoria, although easy to define, is hard to diagnose as its expression varies all over the map.

This quote from Gretchen really hit home to me. From the responses to this thread it would seem many flow into and out of the feeling of dysphoria and wanting to be a woman and struggle with understanding and dealing with it.

[CourtneyJamieson]

Just my 2 cents......I think about what it would be like to be a girl alot. I LUV to dress and be Fem and go out. I love to be a girl. I would LOVE to be a girl 24/7 right now. But I tend to think long-term as well. Just to be honest....I dress now because I can plausibly pass as a woman and I get attention. I go out ALOT now because of that. But when I am 75-years-old I dont know if I could do the same. So I think I would LOVE to be a woman RIGHT NOW....but not so sure I want to be a woman when I am 75.

[Mariabella]

I have read and reread this post as it really spurred thought. And I think for myself I have always been a woman so it is not that I want to be one I am one. But years of coping skills have rendered most of my dysphoria into acceptance of the joke which put me into a truck instead of a minivan💁🏽*♀️ (Yuk it up karma😏) so at this point I am just happily scheming to segue into that minivan and finish my ride in it if the metaphor makes sense.

[sometimes_miss]

but not so sure I want to be a woman when I am 75.
Most 75 y/o women don't want to be 75 y/o women! Getting old is rough for both sexes. We'd all rather be young. Just different. Example: Many older women deal with incontinence. Many older men have enlarged prostates, so they CAN'T always pee when they want to (or, some also have the issue of having to urinate, and then only a little comes out). Equal opportunity frustration.
Which brings up my thoughts. Would I have preferred to have been a girl, and lived my life without the constant GID? Sure. But that was never an option. I was born with the DNA I have, and would have been a huge woman had I ever transitioned. I wear a size 16 shoe. Even as a woman, that would have been a huge foot. My own sister is six feet tall, and has hated it all her life; she wears a 12 or 13 woman's shoe. I grew out of 'borrowing' her shoes when I was in junior high school. In short, I could never have been what I expected to be.
Even if I could, I'd just be trading one problem (the always present GID), for a boatload of others. Too tall. Too big. Feet and hands huge. Birthmark scar on my face.
Life isn't easy for either sex; it's just different, with different sets of problems. I remember my sister complaining that she wasn't allowed to play sports in high school. I asked her if she would have, if she knew that they would lose every game? Or if she would have to play every game against a player who was much better than she was? Because that's what I faced whenever I played. Which she, of course, blamed on me, forgetting that they were team games, and I was only a second string player. She conveniently just assumed that she would always win. Figures.
Being a girl brings with it a whole lot of issues that boys don't have to deal with. Would we lose certain problems by not being boys? Sure. But those would be replaced by girl problems.
In the end, most of us learn to accept what we can't fix, and just live it out that way. Though I do feel quite sorry for those with crippling GID that makes just daily life miserable for them.

[Stephanie47]

Courtney (#37), you may not want to be a 75 year old guy too! I'm 72+ and still enjoy being en femme and have plenty of nice age appropriate clothes. I am in decent health and probably in better health that a lot of guys I see in their twenties and thirties and forties with obese beer bellies and all the medical issues that come with it. Yes, there are some more lines on my face. And, I do need a wig. When you hit seventy-five you'll still have the same drive to be womanly. It does not go away with age. You'll just have to adjust your life accordingly. Sometimes I get comments from younger people commenting in somewhat of a negative way about getting old(er). All I have to say about that is "I made it this far. No guarantee you're going to get there!"

I know plenty of men and women who have no qualms about aging. It's acceptance of the life cycle. It's also reflecting upon what you accomplished in life and the legacy you are leaving.

[Joanne86]

So I figured this would be a good topic for me to comment on because I have had a wide range of mental fluctuation in regards to topics like this. I have been crossdressing for a long time, since my teens (I am in my early 30s now) though I don?t do it too often now. Part of that is I don?t own much and don?t really have to funds to splurge on those kinds of things. Of course that doesn?t stop me from browsing online and hopefully I can start to add a little more piece by piece.

Anyways, I have definitely had thoughts that this was more than just enjoying wearing women?s clothing. There are times I really think I might be transgender, like serious thoughts and what may be labeled as gender dysphoria. Definite times where I look at my body and wish it was feminine with mentally visualizing what that would look like. But as far as seeing a therapist and transitioning that is likely to never happen. I mean I should never say never and I do enjoy aspects of being a male. Maybe my thoughts and feelings align more with the notion of being non-binary and I could definitely understand why others might see my thoughts it that light. So in the end, would I want to be a woman? The answer is a complicated yes and no. But I can definitely say that my interest in crossdressing definitely crosses lines past just simple crossdressing. The war in my brain, so to speak, will continue to wage on.

[Alice Torn]

Sometimes Miss, I appreciate your gut honesty. I wear size 16 womens shoes, too, huge hands,sis foot six 260, but have nice legs. i have struggled as an old bachelor. Never had a chance with women, really. Too low income. I have to accept my lot in life, and toxic family too. My siblings are all lost loners, too with big problems they are in denial of. At least i see my problems. A stranger most of my life , i have moved 50 times. Need to stay a male. Stephanie47, Joanne, i relate to being senior, and aging much better than most seniors.

[jacques]

hello JulesLynne,
When I look at this forum I see that your topic (or very similar ones) is posted quite often; that implies that many of us have similar thoughts.
When I look at my own cross-dressing history I notice that it has changed through the years. It has never been a binary thing - CD or not CD; CD or TS, TS or not TS....
Perhaps the phrase "gender fluid" would be appropriate and mine gender is so fluid that it changes quite often!
In some ways my advice is not to over analyse it but just enjoy it!
luv J

[Star01]

Star,
It's probably more complicated in many cases. Speaking only for myself, I had plenty of opportunity to explore my gender identity, 20+years, but it was not until I entered therapy that finally came to grips with it. I had sought therapy for symptoms that I would eventually learn were a manifestation of my GD. Up that point I readily identified as CD or gender fluid. You'd think it would be a short leap from there to TS, right? Not so much, it turns out.

Therapy can be shortcut to understanding our gender identity, but you have do the work, no matter where you end up.

Thanks, what you're saying makes sense but I suspect that just like every other topic on this board there are surely exceptions ranging from "I have always known" up to and including the help of a therapist. In my case I have cruised through life with an unidentifiable angst punctuated by outbreaks of dressing that started at around 12 or 13. It seems that whatever has been lurking in the shadows for about 55 years has stepped up it's game and is demanding answers and changes but I'm not sure what they are. My DADT situation throws a monkey wrench into the whole mix as that type of status hinders discovery and growth.

[Vickie_CDTV]

[QUOTE=Alice Torn;4406998Never had a chance with women, really. Too low income. [/QUOTE]

I don't know, you can be successful with some women when low income. I know plenty of women who hook with with freeloading losers who smack them around and abuse them. Guess that is the key... Unfortunately, those of us who treat women with respect and as equals have a tougher time of it. What a world we live in...

[char GG]

I don't know, you can be successful with some women when low income. I know plenty of women who hook with with freeloading losers who smack them around and abuse them. Guess that is the key... Unfortunately, those of us who treat women with respect and as equals have a tougher time of it. What a world we live in...

I?ve seen this comment about men having too low of an income ...mentioned a few times in the last few days. Also, the bit about women attracted to ?freeloading losers......bla bla bla?. The thought process contradicts itself.

You are free to believe whatever you like, however, it?s unfair to paint a false picture of men who don?t crossdress as Neanderthals or men with no money as unwanted. When I met my husband, he didn?t have $100 to his name. My opinion, but no one is superior because of income level. My hubby wasn?t a freeloading loser/abuser. Many women are not that shallow. Those who believe this may want to dig deeper for reasons why they haven?t had ?luck? with the ladies.

[Julie Slowinski]

I would like to be a woman, but I don't need to be a woman.
April, After quite a bit of soul searching, this is the exact conclusion I have come to about my personal journey. After additional research, the conventional wisdom is that I am not a good candidate for transition. In essence, CW says that the hardships of transition should be undertaken only if the dysphoria allows for no other path. Personally, I think this is good advice. But, I think you already know that.

However, there is a more general issue. There are many trans women who take this notion beyond advice to individuals and use this notion as measure of trans validity - dysphoria is required to be trans or trans is only about identity and expression is meaningless - the so called trans medicalists (there is a more derogatory name for these folks, but I won?t repeat it here). As it turns out, there is a large community of trans folk who experience very little dysphoria and are motivated by the euphoria - the more vocal group is non-binary folks, but there is also a quieter group of trans women. They are less vocal, because it?s not a popular opinion with many trans women. It seems that this notion of ?I had no choice other than transition? is core to their identity and to acknowledge that others have transitioned (or even call themselves trans) without being motivated by grave consequences is an indirect attack on their existence. But, I think these folks miss the point of statement of ?being born the way we are and we have no choice about who we are.? Certainly, we are all born with the need and/or desire to transition. The second question is how great is that desire? Is it great enough to become a need - so intense that whatever hardships are on the other side must be faced. But, maybe there is an in between type person - not so much of an intense need, but also not quite the same hardships on the other side. (For those that know chemistry, a chemical reaction is more about the energy difference between the two sides of the reaction and less about absolute energy of either side.)

In either case, that?s a fairly long introduction to this article, which many on Facebook were finding quite a bit of connection to. Please enjoy and I promise it has no chemistry.
https://medium.com/@kemenatan/gender-desire-vs-gender-identity-a334cb4eeec5

[Micki_Finn]

Never had a chance with women, really. Too low income.

Really? Too low income? Couldn’t possibly have anything to do with your misogyny?

[Kendra Sue]

I think about being a woman every day.I wish I wasa woman. I am so envious of all the things a woman can do. As the song goes Man I feel like a woman

[April Rose]

Julie, thanks for the link. It's an interesting article, and one I am in substantial agreement with. I have friends in the trans community who are at different levels of self Identity. I think it is important that we recognize those levels without allowing that recognition to divide us. We are all in some way in the same struggle.

[sometimes_miss]

I don't know, you can be successful with some women when low income. I know plenty of women who hook with with freeloading losers who smack them around and abuse them. Guess that is the key... Unfortunately, those of us who treat women with respect and as equals have a tougher time of it. What a world we live in...

Being an abusive guy isn't the key to attraction, even though it might seem to be. It's the displaying of alpha male characteristics and behavior that is.
Leadership; displayed by telling other people what to do, and being able to convey to them that they should do it because it's the right thing to do (a frequent bad boy behavior). Confidence (again, not caring about other people's opinions is a big one; not even asking, but just going ahead with what you want do do). Not EVER appearing to be needy is another big one, that one apparently is a real turn off for most women (other than the occasional nurturing instinct that kicks in when her man is injured or severely ill). Being in control of your own life.
Women generally prefer men taller than themselves; some of us are tall and can take advantage of that. It's a harder road to travel if you're short, but one way to make life easier is to simply go after women who are shorter than you are; OR.... keep putting yourself in situations where you're the only male there, with lots of women around. Simple 'supply and demand' scenario. Lots more but you get the idea.

[Felicia M]

Julie -

the link you posted was such a great read. Thanks so much for posting. At least for me personally I can definitely identify with gender as a longing or desire, not an identity. When I reach certain points in a cycle I have a deep desire and longing to be a woman. I wouldn't give transitioning a second thought but then the feeling slowly ebbs over time only to come back again later. It's wonderful that this article is out there for others to read and for others to see the differences in our lived experience. The spectrum is so rich and we are all so different. It is good to know the struggles of others so we all can grow.

FM

[Sporco]

For those looking for an answer to the question "why am I the way I am?" There is a book that examines the biology behind sex, gender and sexual orientation called "Not A Choice: The Biology You Weren't Taught About Sex And Gender" on Kindle by PJ Paulson. It's a short read of about 60 pages but it summarizes the well established science and understanding of this topic that many are not aware of. I'd recommend it, especially if you are troubled about your gender, orientation or position in the spectrum of variability. It may put your mind at ease. Nothing is binary, contrary to the insistence of religeous groups, and it's not a conscious choice either.

[NancyJ]

The concept of gender desire noted in the link posted by Julie really rings true for me. I have tended to think of it as gender envy, but I think this term is more accurate. Thanks for posting! Nancy

[Nikki.]

snip....

In either case, that?s a fairly long introduction to this article, which many on Facebook were finding quite a bit of connection to. Please enjoy and I promise it has no chemistry.
https://medium.com/@kemenatan/gender-desire-vs-gender-identity-a334cb4eeec5

julie, thanks for posting that. a bunch. it describes my experience very well.

[Sarah Doepner]

My path has been one with a lot of twists and turns but honesty existed only when I was a child and in the last few years. As a child I would fall asleep wanting to wake in the morning as a girl. That was honest but obviously out of my reach so I spent the next 40-50 years calling it something else. Over the last few years I've come back to the original feeling, acknowledge the honesty it held and discovered the goal just might be within my reach.

[Alice Torn]

Micki, I am a veteran who served and was willing to die for this country. i have a right to my opinion, and you have a right to yours, but i get tired of some on here sniping and being aggressively mean.

[Genifer Teal]

When I saw myself as a naked female, with boobs and vagina I practically fainted dead away. Within a week, all thots of becoming female disappeared.

Could you explain this a little more? I'm curious how the sight changed your mind.

[Alice Torn]

Sometimes Miss. I found it is not always true of women wanting tell guys. I am six foot six, and have been rejected by many very tall women, who chose shorter guys than them. It is all about power and confidence with most women.

[sometimes_miss]

Sometimes Miss. I found it is not always true of women wanting tell guys. I am six foot six, and have been rejected by many very tall women, who chose shorter guys than them. It is all about power and confidence with most women.

Power, confidence, status, assets, and money. And THEN looks and height.
But I've come across a lot of women who don't want to date men their own height or shorter. Not always true, but mostly.

[Nadine Spirit]

I?ve seen a lot of CDs who end up making the permanent gender transition and just curious what their path of self discovery really looks like. And I?ll be honest... I?m afraid of being TG.

I resemble those remarks...... wow..... what a journey it has been. I never thought I would ever be where I am at. Why? Because it was such a huge fantasy? Nope. I never thought I'd be here, because I never thought I needed to. I think now, that back then I listened too strongly to those who say, do not ever transition unless your life depends on it. My life didn't depend on it, and I am still thrilled that I chose to do it, and I will never go back.

What was my path? Lots of talking. A lot of reading. A lot of listening. A lot of writing. Things in my life were good, but many things were not. I suspected I was struggling unnecessarily. At 45 I finally started therapy, two months later I decided to try changing my hormones. Yes, what got me to finally do it was understanding that I could try it, and if it was not right for me, I could stop. I gave myself the freedom to try.

I never thought I was a woman. I never wanted to transition. I didn't feel trapped in the wrong body. I've never hated parts of my body. This has not been a lifelong dream. These are all things I thought I knew about myself. I never had any doubt. And now..... after 2.5 years of therapy, a severe change in my hormones, oh and yeah a year and a half into my social/work/legal transition, I am finally beginning to accept the truth of things. I've wanted this my whole life and I was too afraid so I hid those things from myself. It feels so weird, but the best weird I have ever felt.

My last thought - I was speaking to my therapist last night and I said, I am starting to forget about my gender and that is something I never thought would happen.

[Teresa]

Nadine ,
Many thanks for your thoughtful reply .

Your last paragraph raises the question of how often do people in general consider their gender . I'm not sure if I will ever follow your path exactly but in many aspects I agree with you , I don't particularly hate my body but I just prefer to look female , the more I go out as such the less I consider my gender possibly because no one else appears to consider it . I'm accepted for what I am , if some think I'm female that's fine , if they still think I'm male it doesn't appear to bother them . It still makes me smile after all the ups and downs of getting where I am now no one really cares as long as I fit in , are some really changing their bodies for no apparent reason ?

[Angie G]

If I was in my 20's again and alone in this world I would really think of doing the change. but I have to many loved one calling me Dad And grandpa. I do often wish I dad been born a GG. I get to dress almost 24/7 so I'm happy. :hugs:
Angie

[Sometimes Steffi]

I had a very normal boyhood, playing baseball, football, basketball and hockey, for example, but with a deeply buried CD tendency that only came out in secret. I never considered myself a girl. The paradigm in those days were that men who dressed in women's clothes were gay (to use current vernacular). So I did wonder if I was gay.

If you ask me now, I would say I'm gender fluid, but more of a bigender. When I'm out en femme, I still look at GGs When I'm out en homme, I still look at women's clothes and what GGs are wearing.

There used to be an ad for mounds and almond joy (candy), "Sometimes you feel like a nut; sometimes you don't"

[Alyssa Lane]

Well long story short, I don’t hate my parts, maybe just the major acne prone skin. But have for years wished I could have had both lady parts. There was just something I always wished I could experience that a guy just can’t do. Obviously reality sets in when you know it’s completely impossible even if gender change happens.

[josie_S]

As a man I have always felt like something was missing, been that way for as long as I can remember. The best way to describe it is I have never felt complete if that makes sense. As Soriya I have noticed that a lot of the happiness I feel are the feelings I am missing as a man. Of course that has had me think often if I am supposed to be a women but like VS Fan mentioned I can't dismiss that as a man I have endured a lot of negativity, physically and especially mentally. Looking at my dressing through my life I also realized that when the Pink Fog came knocking it was always during times of extreme loneliness. When I was in a relationship and things were going good, dressing was basically an afterthought and never came up, never really thought about it actually. When things started going South the Pink Fog started rolling back in.

The older and wiser (I hope) I have become and the more I let go of past baggage I have noticed a lot of those 'missing' feelings as a man are starting to disappear.

Holy cow...this is me! Thank you for this, Soriya!

[Aunt Kelly]

Well long story short, I don’t hate my parts, maybe just the major acne prone skin. But have for years wished I could have had both lady parts. There was just something I always wished I could experience that a guy just can’t do. Obviously reality sets in when you know it’s completely impossible even if gender change happens.

I don't understand. Should I call off all of my plans?