What some people think a girl sholuld be

[RainbowDash]

Yesterday a new girl came to work for us as a delivery driver. We were both closing the store late at night, and with nothing to do, we started talking and getting to know each other.
This new girl proceeds to tell me that she was let go from her previous job because of one simple reason by her boss.... He told her she did not look like a girl. See when I saw her, both sides of her head had been shaved, but there was still plenty of long hair hanging down. According to her, this annoyed her old boss, who proceeded to tell her that she was not very much like a girl, and should change her appearance to appear more "feminine". She refused and got fired. I told her that was ridiculous of her manager, and that I had seen many girls with a hair style like hers. The story goes on....
She told me about a previous job where she had been a waitress. She was fat-shamed by patrons and employees alike, for she was somewhere around 280 pounds. 1 or 2 of the other girls who worked there had asked her "Why don't you lose weight? Girls aren't supposed to look like you do!" We both agreed the reason for this is simple.... A lot of people in society expect girls and women to always look sexy, and to be slim and have perfect figures. I've seen all kinds and I know this is not the case with all women. But this turned out to work in her favor, as she became motivated to lose weight, and went from 280 to 150 in about a year or two.
Myself, I am really shocked by how society expects women to be perfect. As a man, it also makes me think about how society expects us men to act like men and not act feminine in any way, shape, or form. I am glad that there are some of us brave enough to stand up and fight against society's stupid rules and expectations.

[Alice Torn]

I agree. But, sometimes a little gentle tough love is needed before we really work to change something we need to change, and obesity is a killer.

[audreyinalbany]

y'know I kinda have the same problem in dealing with the weight issue as Alice. There's a lot of talk these days about 'loving your body' and accepting your overweight self. Problem is, being overweight really is a killer and, although it's great to have a positive body image, you do need to be aware of the many health risks that accompany obesity. it's not "fat shamming," to encourage people to lose weight anymore that it's 'smoker shamming' to encourage people to give up cigarettes. I'm not advocating that we should all go out and stop people on the street and tell them to lose weight, but for those close to us with whom we can be forthright and honest, we might gently encourage them to make an effort to reduce.

[char GG]

Just my opinion, but I wonder if something is missing from this story.

Where I live, if a person is fired based on their looks, there are attorneys willing to take on a case like that. It is illegal here to fire someone solely on their appearance. Not sure about the laws in other areas.

[RainbowDash]

Just my opinion, but I wonder if something is missing from this story.

Where I live, if a person is fired based on their looks, there are attorneys willing to take on a case like that. It is illegal here to fire someone solely on their appearance. Not sure about the laws in other areas.

I asked her why she did not go to Corporate about the harassment. She said the restaurant, which was a well-known one, was actually owned by a franchisee. The owner apparently had made remarks to the manager about her "appearance". After she was fired, she decided it simply was not worse the hassle and opted to just look for another job.

[Robertacd]

I find it a little hard to believe her story. If a GG gets fired for not looking or dressing "feminine enough" she has a major lawsuit and no chance of loosing.

That's sexual hurrassment cut and dry.

But she just got fired and moved on?

[Tracii G]

Some states are right to work states and you can be fired for any reason.
Usually being fired over "looks" like wild hair cuts,over abundance of facial piercings can be considered by the employer as a distraction in the work place. if a distraction causes un productivity the employer has the right to let you go.
I know some will argue until they are blue in the face that it shouldn't be this way but the reality is it is that way.

[docrobbysherry]

I think there's a lot more to her "being fired" stories than you're reporting, RD!:straightface:

But, now that we're into the "fat shaming" and women presenting sexy, subject. Let me add that there may be some physiological reasons involved here.
When I got with my ex she was about 95 pounds. 3 years later, we married and she was about 115. 3 years after that she was about 140. And, things were flagging in the bedroom.:sad:

Some guys r into big women but some men r not aroused by them. Women can fake it in bed. But, men can't. So, if women r interested in attracting men, looking sexy couldn't hurt. :battingeyelashes:

[Robertacd]

Right, but Tracii her story said she was told by her boss to change her appearance to look more feminine.

I don't care what state you are in, right to work or not.

THAT is sexual hurrassment.

[Majella St Gerard]

My whole family is on the large size and I try not to let my weight get away from me, I don't think it's attractive and most big girls do not dress for their size and shape.
But I would NEVER say anything to a woman about her weight, that is a MAJOR NO NO, especially to a co-worker or someone that I supervise.
People should mind their own business and keep their mouths shut.
I might say something in my head but never out loud, that is rude and my mother taught me better that that.

[Angela Marie]

I know if this happened in NYS the owner, manager, etc. would be facing a lawsuit. But each state is different. As for fat shaming no one, period , deserves to be shamed about their body. It is always counterproductive. Is obesity a serious health problem? Of course! But to denigrate another person so they meet some arbitrary societal standar is wrong. As an aside weight loss is not as simple as calories in, calories out. Look at the medical research on this subject.

[Teresa]

RainbowDash,
You only have to look at the media and advertisers to realise the what a woman is suppose to appear like .

I call my situation as a man as wearing a male straightjacket because what is expected of a man but women live under similar expectations of what a woman should look and behave like . Her old boss was totally in the wrong , it's no excuse but I'm sure he would like to have slim, attractive girls working for him because it's good for business especially as if he's running a franchise .

I guess the great outcome was she came to terms with her situation and did something about it , which was probably better for her own health , if truth be known she feels much better for it and her old boss lost a good employee .

Maybe he was put in a tough situation , legally he was wrong but he was picking up the situation from other employees and was stuck with a dilemma .

[Dutchess]

I agree with some others here about the story sounding not quit right . What I am reading is against the law . I see you are in Texas and the strange way they do things is one of the reason I left long ago but still that is against the law .
The ONLY time I had a weight restriction was when I got my excersize(sp) rider license in Tx , Ok , La and Cal but those were long established rules for both men and women , you could weigh up to a certain amount with your clothes and your tack to be licensed and you cannot be on the track without a license that was 1980 and it still stands today
Because of the gender reference that really is sexual harassment .
No one expects anyone to be perfect , or to behave in some rigid way as much as some might think . I have never been expected to be sexy .

[Tracii G]

Right, but Tracii her story said she was told by her boss to change her appearance to look more feminine.

I don't care what state you are in, right to work or not.

THAT is sexual hurrassment.

Yeah I agree it isn't right of them to demand things like that.
You would have to prove it was sexual in nature for it to stick in a court of law.
Just complaining about appearance is different because how the employee looks does affect how people view the company.
The company owner does have a say when it comes to his business.
Case in point you don't see obese girls working at a Hooters as Hooters girls its up to the franchisee that owns the place who he hires for that position.
Nobody seems to think Hooters owners are sexist.

[Robertacd]

It's one thing to have a dress code that is applied to everyone.

It's against the law to tell a GG she has to dress "more feminine" because that's the same as telling a GG she has to dress more sexy, wear some heals, and show some cleavage...

But sorry to say fat shaming is not considered sexual hurrassment.

[Tracii G]

Fat shaming is an ugly thing but yes not sexual harassment.
Sexual harassment can be done to anyone and it should be against the law.

[Pumped]

It maybe grounds for a lawsuit, but is it worth the battle? An attorney might take the case on the basis of getting paid if they won, but you still have time and energy invested. Depending on the job it is often best to just move on. Besides, she is employed already. Usually in these situations a person finds something better anyway. As long as you are gainfully employed, move on, it is not worth the negativity. If you get a job right away you have no damages. Employers like this get what they desire soon enough.

[Jean 103]

People can be very mean.

My roommate is disabled and overweight, they have changed her meds and as a result she has lost a lot up weight. She can walk maybe 20 feet without her oxygen.

We are in the parking lot behind my car. I'm loading the groceries into the trunk while my roommate sits on the stores scooter. She is waiting for me to finish so I can assist her in getting into the car. Then I return the scooter to the store. This is like normal for us.

Anyway While I'm loading the trunk. A guy walks by and says" why don't you get your fat ass up and help the skinny girl."

I was completely stunned and my roommate was crushed. She retired as a truck driver and comes from very hardy stock.

A very close friend of my, her SO is the lead singer in a band. One of the band member's wife's told her she looks like a Crossdresser. Wanted her to be more girly, lose weight, dress differently. are you kidding me? it's a punk rock band. Yes she warned me before she told me. I already knew my friend was having problems with this girl.

and Yes I consoled both of them.

[scarlett]

Some states are right to work states and you can be fired for any reason.
Usually being fired over "looks" like wild hair cuts,over abundance of facial piercings can be considered by the employer as a distraction in the work place. if a distraction causes un productivity the employer has the right to let you go.
I know some will argue until they are blue in the face that it shouldn't be this way but the reality is it is that way.

"Right to work" refers to section 14b of the Taft-Hartley Act of 1947. It limits the ability of unions to organize. If a state ratifies Section 14b then employees can not be required to join a union as a condition of employment. That's what it means. That is all that it means.
What you allude to is the doctrine of " employment at will". This mean that employment may be terminated at any time for any reason. It is limited only by federal law protecting classes due to race, age, religion, sex, etc. You can indeed be fired without recourse for the way you part your hair or equally ridiculous causes. That is one of the keys to advancement in a world dominated by lawyers and such.

[AngelaYVR]

But to denigrate another person so they meet some arbitrary societal standar is wrong. As an aside weight loss is not as simple as calories in, calories out. Look at the medical research on this subject.

This societal standard is actually something that can be measured. If you are obese you will die an early, horrible death and cost the rest of society a lot of money paying for your medical care.

As for the original story, I am not buying it.

[GretchenM]

I have no reason to doubt her story as you related, but I suspect there may have been things that she did not tell you. There often is with these things. Does it matter? Not really.

She was obviously discriminated against and, legally, should have taken action. That was her choice not to and that is fine. But then we may not have the whole story. The important thing in your story of this new employee is that you listened and you were supportive. There may be things that are factors in her firing she didn't tell you, but so what? She is a different person and with different values and that can be a scarlet letter in the eyes of some. She stuck to her values and good for her. You may find out more later that changes the story or you may not. Not important. It is now that matters and you were a good, accepting friend to her right now and that is what is important right now. The maybes can wait. Good job, in my opinion.

[Rogina B]

While we are discussing discrimination. Some businesses want to choose their "public face". Wrong or right,it is often used as reasoning for not having "unique" employees. And that is a root cause of discrimination from transgender hiring in the workplace. Sad,but true. Employment is an uphill battle for most "unique" people.

[Stephanie47]

Some states are right to work states and you can be fired for any reason.

Actually, it would be better to say "you can be fired for no reason." Even in right to work states you cannot be fired for being someone protected by federal law. Of course, if you're fired for being among a protected class you have to be able to prove your point. You have to establish a pattern of behavior if the action was not so egregious as to stand out by itself. In Washington State the law protects everyone on the spectrum including sexual orientation, sexual identity and expression. That includes cross dressing. In many other states, and in the federal statues, protection is not as comprehensive. Sometimes it is better to just pick up and move to a more welcoming state.

As to "fat shaming" there is a difference between offering negative hurtful comments and genuine concern for a person's health. You're stuck on the appearance of a woman. However, what about all those guys with gigantic beer bellies which are strangling their internal organs with visceral fat?

Yes, there is probably more to the story than the woman is sharing. However, society does not seem to dump on the balding short fat guy as much as a woman not meeting some guy's vision of beauty when he is thinking with the head between his legs.

[sometimes_miss]

There may be more to the story, or there may not. As mentioned, in many states an employer can fire an employee for any reason or no reason. And she knew that. Fight it? To what end? Would you want to work in a place where they don't want you? You'll be #1 on the list to be laid off the next time they have to cut back. You'll get the worst assignments and tasks to do. Unless you're prepared to live the rest of your life perpetually being the unwanted person, it's simpler to just move on and find a place where people don't care so much about how you look.

NOW then: Having been overweight several times in my life, does anyone really think that a fat person doesn't know that they are fat? Or that they don't know that it's not good for their health? If it was that simple, just tell someone that they are fat, and then they'll think, 'OH! I'm fat? I never noticed! Thank you so much for telling me! Gee, I've been walking around all this time a fatty, and I didn't know. It's so helpful to have such nice people around.

Fat people know that they're fat. They don't want to be fat. We don't want them to be fat. To say to their face that they are fat and should lose weight, 'maybe you could lose a few pounds', for ANY reason, is rude.

If it were that easy to just 'lose the weight', there would be no fat people. But you know what? It's not. Thousands die and get sick every day, from the negative effects of being fat. And they know it, too. Don't be the jerk who rubs it in.

If it were that easy to keep your mouth shut, there would be no rude people. But for heaven's sake, whenever you think of commenting negatively on someone's appearance like that, please try to keep your mouth shut. You're not telling them anything that they don't already know.

[Helen_Highwater]

At the risk of straying outside the site rules it strikes me that in the US that there seems to be no standard interpretation of human rights. In the UK, which is made up of 4 nations hence the "United", the law is applied fairly evenly. Discrimination be it sexual, ageist, homophobic , racist are all dealt with fairly much universally. Each country has it's ability to apply it's own laws but fundamentally there's a common thread that runs between them.

Discrimination as described in the post would certainly attract the gaze of the law across all boundaries.

As an outside observer I'm amazed that "One nation" hasn't yet achieved a common standard for what seems to be fundamental human rights. I do understand that the US is made up of a number of commonwealths but if on your passport it says US citizen then surely as a citizen you should be covered by a common set of basic human rights enshrined in law.

This is an important issue for those who are of our persuasion. Crossing a man made line on the ground shouldn't suddenly deprive you of basic common fundamental rights.

I know as a UK passport holder that when I go out dressed I'm not breaking any laws. This applies to England, Scotland, Wales and Norther Ireland. The only caveat to that is I can't dress for criminal deception purposes. I'm protected from abuse under the law. That doesn't mean I'm in actuallity protected from physical or verbal abuse from a knuckle dragging neanderthal, it just means the law is on my side should it happen. That however means a huge amount.

So it is with the type of discrimination described in the post. Regardless of location, employers are constrained by the need to observe basic human rights. The "You need to look attractive" mantra only fuels the ongoing stereotypes. Can you imagine what the outcry would be if employers said to male employees, "Beards are fashionable". "If you can't grown a full beard you're fired", or "You're not muscular enough, hit the gym or find new employment".

If you see it and do nothing about it you're part of the problem not part of the solution.

[TheHiddenMe]

Just my opinion, but I wonder if something is missing from this story.

Where I live, if a person is fired based on their looks, there are attorneys willing to take on a case like that. It is illegal here to fire someone solely on their appearance. Not sure about the laws in other areas.

We're talking Texas here. These type of protections DON'T exist.

[Sabrina133]

spoken like a true attorney Scarlett - and you are correct. In some states, a person can be fired for the way they appear especially if a certain look is a condition of employment.

Bree