Now What?

[Davina Katherine]

This morning at 7:30 as I'm heading out to work, my wife and I are doing our usual "have a good day" ritual.
Since I was dress the previous night, I ask her to make sure I got all my lipstick off.
Next thing I know, she is reminding me she "doesn't' like girls", never will. Then she says something about it's either her husband or no sex (in so many words), because she doesn't like girls, it's my choice. I ask what are you saying? I tell her I've got no time for such a conversation and that it is unfair to bring this subject up as I'm leaving.

I'm not even sure what the "subject" was. No looking forward to this conversation, if she even admits to saying anything when I get home tonight.

All this from a woman who helps me shop and is weaving a poncho for femme me.

[docrobbysherry]

I think u r better served asking her than having us speculate, JM!:thumbsup:

[Davina Katherine]

Yes, I will be having the "talk".
I can't read my wife's mind, so I don't expect anyone else to!!:)

Just wanted/needed to share.

[Robertacd]

My wife has told me that the hardest thing she had to overcome was what loving (and even more so making love to) me and the fact that she was still attracted to me as a woman meant about her own sexuality.

In my case my wife has come to terms with being Pansexual. Some people may never be able to get there,

[BTWimRobin]

It sounds like a talk is in order. I'm sure you can come to a mutual understanding. Perhaps set some ground rules, if you have not already done so. Good luck!

[Teresa]

Jessie,
I'm sure many of us have had , " I'm not a lesbian !" comment . If you are still a functioning male she hasn't lost very much , maybe she's making noises about not liking your dressing anymore despite helping you on occasions .

It's tricky one , my wife only wanted the man she married but after her menopause all contact ceased anyway , I could have said I only want the woman I married but I didn't , I eventually I felt like an unpaid handyman .

[Sandi Beech]

Ouch , that would kind of hurt. I guess the only question is why the sudden change in heart ? Regardless of the reason, I would avoid getting into a fight over it because then the dressing issue is translated into negative feelings on both sides. That is hard to recover from. I think I would ask and just listen, and for the short term lay low a while.

Sandi

[Rhonda Jean]

Sounds all too familiar. PM me if interested.

[RADER]

It Sounds/looks like you have to put dressing on hold for a time.Good luck.
Rader

[Bobbi46]

"Now what" ? talk that is the best thing you can and must do could it be your wife just woke up with morning blues and in fact there maybe nothing wrong at all but you must have the "talk" before it degeneates into a non speaking speaking subject and then you are stuck.

[Leslie Langford]

I've been married for far longer than I care to admit, but I still can't figure out where it is written that it is always the women who get to initiate the "We need to talk" discussion and - as in your case - usually at the most inopportune times. It's almost as if they are blindsiding us on purpose in this way to maintain the upper hand in said ensuing discussion, thereby forcing us to negotiate from a position of weakness before it even starts.

We? Really??? Funny, that...and here I thought with my simple, reptilian - and still fundamentally male - brain that things were actually going quite well between us these days. Who knew? :doh: :straightface:

[alwayshave]

Jessie, I hate my wife springing things on me before I head to work. Kills my day. I hope the "talk" works out well for you.

Leslie, I agree that women usually initiate the "we need to talk discussion" putting men back on their heels. My ex-wife was famous for this. When I finally was done with all her BS and turned the tables on her, it really messed her up. She didn't know how to deal with being the one back on her heels.

[Maid_Marion]

The most common issue is the "pink fog." You get so wrapped up into dressing that you forget about HER needs.

I found that if you put her needs first, those "issues" went away.

[Jenny22]

Jessie, you said,"Since I was dress the previous night, I ask her to make sure I got all my lipstick off.
Next thing I know, she is reminding me she "doesn't' like girls", never will. Then she says something about it's either her husband or no sex (in so many words)."

I'm a bit confused. 'Last night', were you intimate with your wife while dressed? Something seems to have bothered her about 'last night'. Can you share more, now?

[Davina Katherine]

Sorry for the confussion, Jenny. I had dressed and gone shopping on Sunday afternoon and then went to a support group. I always try to dress when I go the group.
My wife and girl-me do NOT "mess around"! She had no issues with my going out on Sunday.

So I don't know what was different that made her say what she did on Monday morning.

BTW, I haven't worked up the courage to initiate The Talk.

[char GG]

I am assuming that your wife is telling you that she doesn't want to be intimate when you are in female mode. OR, maybe you still had lipstick on your face and she didn't want to kiss you goodbye.

Obviously, the only way to clear up any confusion is to talk to her about it.

[AngelaYVR]

Possibly she puts up with your dressing but you asking about the lipstick in man mode violated the boundary for her. Any feelings she'd been holding back then blorped out. But I sympathise, it's always as you're going out or laying your head down to sleep.

[Kelly DeWinter]

People react to different things, at different times for different reasons. Truthfully on a Monday morning on the way out the door , to ask your spouse to do something that YOU could do by looking in a mirror might just have been something that she did'nt want to think about when she was mentally preparing for HER work week.

Give her some time, then if it really seems to be an issue have a quiet talk at home on a Saturday.

[Devi SM]

I want to add a penny here.
I can tell that men rarely can understand the "mind " of a woman because they don't use it. Let me explain my assert: women are lead by feelings and will find the reason to support their feelings which can be unreasonable for men because they have origin in a different place.

By the other hand men don't use the head to think but just little one between the legs, responsible for most of the men actions, even to dress take a sexual connotation.
When men dress as a woman get into the pink fog and start feeling in different ways but never as women feel. we keep not thinking and it turns more difficult to understand what our wives feel.
Language is very different between both. It should be a common language for both LOVE (if there's no love wi never be a common point to meet)

If a croosdresser wants to keep his wife happy must learn to control the desires for dressing. If he can't control it means that's is more than just crossdressing and should see a therapist. Hopefully both should see a therapist if not, you both are rplling downtown the hill and soon brakes won't work.
I can tell that I was controlling my desires to be a woman while I keep showing love to my wife doing sacrifices and delaying all I wanted but with the time and patience I'm on 2 years HRT and living full time as a woman keeping my wife and loving each other.

[VtVicky]

Listen to AngelaYVR and Kelly DeWinter.

Asking her to check your lipstick is a not very subtle way to ask her to accept your dressing.

Yeah, you shot first.

It sounds like her not accepting is wearing on you. I wonder if you have taken similar shots, perhaps unconsciously, in the past, and she is telling you to back off. I think I'd take her suggestion. Or, get to a therapist to work on the latent rage.

[Jane G]

We tired the girl girl thing for a time. Not to my wife's taste either. Respect her choices too. The talk and the compromises, all part of life. :thumbsup:

[Davina Katherine]

Thanks, everybody. All good observations.

First, I'm not an innocent victim and I can be something of a drama queen.

But I really do need help some mornings, I've gone to work with my pants unzipped!

We had A Talk this morning when we both had plenty of time. She told me she has seen changes in me, not just the dressing and "doing my lady thing", but changes in me as a man and how we relate as husband and wife. (I only started dressing at all in August 2019 and it was never a secret between us)

She's right. I see them too. Acknowledging and releasing my feminine side has bled over into my masculine side. That should be no surprise.

Monday, when I asked her to check for tell-tell makeup, it reminded her of those changes.

We talked about what I need to do to be more "manly", but didn't come up with anything specific.

My wife is right. We've gotten through other "strange" time in our 47 years together. But this may be the strangest.

More Talks are in my future!!

Thanks for listening and sharing your experiences and insights.

Jessie Mae

[Stephanie47]

If you have been married/together for 47 years I suspect changes had come gradual. Everyone changes or matures over time. Interests change. Everything changes. Nothing stays static. However, if your dressing and perhaps feminization, for a lack of a better term, has been brought on quickly, your wife may not have had the time to adjust, And, perhaps she does not like the changes. It seems she is saying the change in her life has been more than her husband wearing women's clothing. It would seem logical to me that anyone would eventually take on more of the personna of a woman in mannerisms, etc. I suspect she still expects her marriage to between her and your male personna.

[Jackiemtv]

Sounds to me that your wife is an understanding woman. I think you just need to work with her on this. It can't be easy for her. Good luck Jessie.

[MeshelleCD]

We talked about what I need to do to be more "manly", but didn't come up with anything specific.


More manly things? Like chopping wood? Overhauling a hemi engine? Overthrowing political regimes in foreign countries? (all which could be done while crossdressing, mind you)

[Judy-Somthing]

It's just another excuse!
Ya I'm a guy and I've talked to 1,000 of guys my age and they all say the same thing "sex basically stops after menopause, and it's all blamed on us! MEN
I'm not putting down women , I'm just stating a fact!
It stopped for me 15 years before she knew I liked to dress.
Well probably talked to only 50 guys!

[Dutchess]

Ya I'm a guy and I've talked to 1,000 of guys my age and they all say the same thing "sex basically stops after menopause, and it's all blamed on us! MEN
I'm not putting down women , I'm just stating a fact!

Since 1000's of guys have been through menopause , right ?? lol
What does this have to do with dressing or the ops problem ?
I see this alot here and it is not true . Some women may use that as an excuse but myself and the other women I know , our sex lives heated up . I am looking for a date for the Symphony now and we'd better do more than hold hands .
I went through menopause 7 years ago and I am still interested . Pregnancy fears are gone and I left my strange dresser husband who , for years , would rather look at/ hang out with / was sexually aroused by other dressers instead of me . The latter there was the real problem .

[kimdl93]

Ok...let me put this myth to rest. My ex used to work in senior housing. The majority of residents were women, as expected, because women tend to live longer. So on the rare occasion that a single male leased a unit all the female residents went on high alert. And even in their memory units, sexual liaisons between residents was common. Don?t kid yourself...if your wife uses menopause for an excuse, it may be that she has lost interest...in you.

And from personal experience...our intimate relationship ebbed and ended as my ex grew increasingly unhappy with my gender expression. I do not blame her. She was looking for sex with her husband, not her girlfriend.

[Davina Katherine]

I'm reading these recent posts as I'm going to bed. But I will respond in full tomorrow with an update.

Thanks all.
Jessie Mae.

[Michelle Crossfire]

Wait a minute. Didn't you and her just go shopping to a thrift store in your area just the otherday? You certainly made it sound as if it went well. Now she has done a complete 180 on you? Just remember when you spoke to my wife and all the viewpoints she offered you. I can't talk to your wife as we have never met, but maybe that will help you as you embark on a talk with your wife. PM if you need to.

[Davina Katherine]

No, no! The "walking out the door" thing was BEFORE the shopping day. So I think the What Now conversation was more of a one off.

We have always had a odd form of communications, going back to our teens.

My relationship with my wife is solid, and she enjoys shopping with me for dresses and blouses.
So at this point no worries!

[Kelly DeWinter]

I'd like to speak to "changes" in general, in relationships. One of the hardest aspects of being in a long term relationship is that people change, form new relationships, new interests, hobbies , tastes etc. Sometimes these changes are seen as being outside of the "norm" of previous years behavior. Many time a spouse will hey "they are not the same person I married". If the change is not harmful (drugs,alcohol,abuse, etc) then the best thing to do is to talk about why you have the new interest.

[ReineD]

You've been married for 47 years, which would place you in your late 60s?

Understand that levels of most hormones decrease with aging. Women lose estrogen and men lose testosterone. This is why you often see elderly couples who are more alike than they are different. A woman in advanced age is much less "feminine" than her 40-year-old counterpart. The same is true for an older man, who is less "macho" than he was at age 40. They both lose drive, energy, skin elasticity, muscle mass, bone density, some cognitive health (memory), their vision and hearing decreases, a woman's voice deepens, a man's voice loses vigor, etc.

Look at the sexual differences between a young boy and a young girl before their sexual development. Their differences are virtually non-existent. And then as we reach old age, physical differences lessen as well. Almost full circle.

So perhaps your wife, because you have just started to dress, is attributing your very normal aging process to somehow becoming more "feminine"? You might show her this article:

https://www.merckmanuals.com/home/hormonal-and-metabolic-disorders/biology-of-the-endocrine-system/effects-of-aging-on-the-endocrine-system

Bearing in mind that other than men and women's sexual (physical) traits, there are no big differences between the sexes to begin with, which is something that few in this forum want to believe. There were 46 meta-analyses conducted in the 1980s and 90s, that show that men and women are basically alike in terms of personality, psychological traits and abilities, verbal and nonverbal communication, leadership, self-esteem, moral reasoning, motor behaviors and cognitive ability.

https://www.apa.org/research/action/difference

Any behavioral differences your wife may detect might just be you "acting" the way you believe that women act, without realizing you're doing this - think Pink Fog, which might be exacerbated by participating in the many threads here that place "femininity" on a virtual pedestal, whether these threads are wishful thinking or not. I've seen many times in this community people who adopt mannerisms or stereotypical "female" language in an effort to convince themselves, if not others, that they are somehow more feminine than before.

You should tell your wife that you are the same person you always were, just getting older and losing testosterone. And if you are subconsciously adopting mannerisms, be aware that mimicry basically just reveals empathy, which is a trait shared by both males and females. But, it is still imitation.

https://medium.com/the-mission/the-surprising-truth-about-why-we-tend-to-imitate-others-b15831070cd9

Last, another explanation might be that if your wife saw no harm in you wanting to wear women's clothes occasionally last summer, it may now be ramping up much faster than she is able to keep up with. This is another effect of Pink Fog, and most wives find it difficult to deal with it, including myself in the beginning of my relationship with my SO.

Be aware of Pink Fog and do what you can to mitigate it.

Good luck!

[Pumped]

It's just another excuse!
Ya I'm a guy and I've talked to 1,000 of guys my age and they all say the same thing "sex basically stops after menopause, and it's all blamed on us! MEN
I'm not putting down women , I'm just stating a fact!
It stopped for me 15 years before she knew I liked to dress.
Well probably talked to only 50 guys!

Well, I am on the other side! My wife is near 60 years old and still enjoys our intimate times. The woman that blame it on the men might be partly correct as I can see how many man treat their wives. Wives like attention, like to be loved, like to be told they are beautiful and like to cuddle. Most men I see won't do any of these things and wonder why the don't get sex.

We have some intimate time once or twice a week. It works for us and our crazy schedule. We would like to "hook up" more often, but time doesn't allow it. Sometimes we get together with me partially dressed. Except me wearing boobs is a deal killer. Some days she just wants her "man" and she lets me know than the girlie stuff goes on the back burner for a day or two. I figure if she is willing to accept me in my girlie times the least I can do is bring back the "man" once in a while. I give her the time and she doesn't complain when I get dressed and strap on a pair of boobs.

I can also see if I went full on, 100% dressed our marriage probably wouldn't survive, so a little give and take works for us. After all, she didn't volunteer for this duty.

Like I have said before, how would you feel if your beautiful, sexy wife cut her hair down to a crew cut, quit wearing make up, started wearing baggy men's jeans, work shirts and some ugly work boots most of the time, just let her self go, the polar opposite of us getting dressed.

[char GG]

Back to the OP...

Thanks for the update.

Sounds like you have things sorted, Jessie Mae. I'm glad that you two communicate and seem to keep things in perspective.