Ask a GG - Three [Archive] - Crossdressers.com - #1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends

DianeT

04-25-2020, 02:08 PM

char GG

04-25-2020, 03:04 PM

I'll give this a try, Diane,

1. In your opinion, what is the reason why there seems to be much more MtF crossdressers than FtM?

Not sure, I know one FtM trans person who felt he was a male since he was a child, he transitioned to male around the age of 20. (I have known him since he was a baby). Otherwise, I don't think many girls (I'm sure there are exceptions) think about going through the dirty laundry to find their brother or dad's clothes to try on. There is a "yuck" factor associated with that. Just my opinion, perhaps it's the "forbidden" factor that leads boys to dry on dirty underwear or go through their sister's, mother's, or relative's clothing. I also never thought to check out my dad, brother's, or even my husbands clothes drawers with the intention of trying their stuff on. I really don't know enough about the science of the brain to cause MtF or FtM. In our home, the privacy of the items of other family members were respected.

2. For those who go out with their SO dressed, do you go as friends (no demonstration of affection such as holding hands or kisses) or as a couple? If as friends only, is there a reason, such as fearing being identified as a lesbian couple?

Yes, we only go out when he is CD'ed as friends (Mutual choice). We both want to keep the man/woman relationship in our marriage and not blur the lines. We talk about subjects we typically talk about. Not what some consider "girly subjects" It works for us. Everyone has a different feeling about how they want to be perceived.

3. For GGs who dislike CDers dressing in a stereotypical way (e.g. tight clothing, short skirts, nylons, high heels, long hair, etc.), what are the reasons? Would the reasons be different for private CDing (dressing at home, not posting pictures), and for CDing with real world exposure (going out of posting pictures)?

Again, just my opinion. There is a time and place for the clothing you described. Home, bars and clubs are fine. If CDers appear in malls and grocery stores dressed like they are going clubbing, they definitely "out" themselves whether anyone says anything or not.

4. What is your definition of femininity? (feel free to answer about masculinity as well!)

I always feel feminine. I have hobbies such as sailing and motorcycle riding but I don't consider them gender specific or less feminine doing them. Clothes don't matter although I do like to get dressed up for appropriate occasions. It doesn't make me feel anymore feminine. It's the feeling of loving my family. I try to be the peacemaker. I feel compassion for those who are vulnerable (handicapped, little children, older folks, people who have some type of illness or condition).

As far a masculinity, I love the traits my husband shares with me, such as loving family, compassion, sense of humor. I love him in all modes but I specifically think he looks particularly sexy with a beard (just my preference). He hasn't had a beard since he started CDing. It doesn't make him less masculine. Clothes don't make him less masculine either.

5. About anticipating GG's boundaries, many CDers have answered that they couldn't read minds and boundaries should be spelled out (in other words if something has not been explicitly forbidden then it must fly). What is your opinion on this?

I agree that communication is key. No one should have to guess. My boundaries are the same for both of us. Which clothing we wear is secondary. I expect both of us to act like a married couple, not like single people.

04-25-2020, 06:52 PM

1. In your opinion, what is the reason why there seems to be much more MtF crossdressers than FtM?
In real life in our group that met in Canada there were many more trans men so in my experience I do not find that to be the case. Even here in Texas I have met several trans men at work. So I have not found that but the opposite.

2. For those who go out with their SO dressed, we went out as a couple that were in love.

3. For GGs who dislike CDers dressing in a stereotypical way (e.g. tight clothing, short skirts, nylons, high heels, long hair, etc.), what are the reasons? Would the reasons be different for private CDing (dressing at home, not posting pictures), and for CDing with real world exposure (going out or posting pictures)

Sherlyn dressed in short skirts ect for pictures for the forum because it was fun. We had photo shoots and she would try to get me to join in...we would do singing videos together ...just fun stuff.
But going out she dressed like any normal womanl.

4. What is your definition of femininity? Just being me nothing to do with clothes or makeup as I feel the same with or without.

5. About anticipating GG's boundaries, many CDers have answered that they couldn't read minds and boundaries should be spelled out (in other words if something has not been explicitly forbidden then it must fly). What is your opinion on this?
For most couples first finding out and sorting this all out I think it does need to be spelled out because some cders see silence as a green light when the wife is just trying to be supportive and some cders go overboard.
In our case I knew ...we grew through this together ....there was never any boundaries it was just our life together.

Just to explain my answers/ experiences will be a bit different

We met as Sher and Di I knew the girl side long before I ever met the guy side ( we were in different countries ) and our times together in the beginning were as Sher and Di till I finally had vacation and was there for a week. I fell in love with a beautiful person who was the same no matter what they were wearing.It was not like most couples being swept off their feet by a guy then finding out about the girl part. I sometimes think I should not answer but then I think if everyone could see it as being with the person you love and see past the clothes.

ReineD

04-27-2020, 03:39 AM

1. In your opinion, what is the reason why there seems to be much more MtF crossdressers than FtM?

Fetishes are more common in men than in women. I’ve never met a FtM crossdresser. The FtM TGs I have known IRL were more like butch lesbians (do we still use this term)? They were more interested in shedding what they considered were trappings of stereotypical femininity than developing an avid interest in male fashion.

2. For those who go out with their SO dressed, …

We go as friends. I am not sexually attracted to women and I don’t like to pretend that I am.

3. For GGs who dislike CDers dressing in a stereotypical way (e.g. tight clothing, short skirts, nylons, high heels, long hair, etc.), what are the reasons?

When we go out, I do not like my SO to wear the type of clothes I have worn to be attractive to men, for obvious reasons. A guy did hit on us once and I did not enjoy the experience. I am in a committed relationship with my SO and I hope my SO feels the same way, so why would we even want to signal to men (through our clothes or presentation), that we are available or we welcome attention.

Also throughout my life, the women I have chosen to be my friends have rich lives and to us, clothing, makeup, and grooming are secondary - things we may put on to suit this or that occasion. And then it is forgotten about in favor of enjoying the people we are with. In other words, our lives revolve around family, friends, career, the event at hand, social concerns, etc, and not fashion and grooming. I would not choose as a friend a woman who is preoccupied with her clothes and looks - we would not have much in common - and I find it difficult to admire such obsessions in crossdressers. In all fairness though, when I was a very young woman my female friends and I would dress the way you describe to go to clubs. But the focus was on meeting guys - the clothes were mere tools to achieve that goal. We did not dress this way when we hung out together. I am older now and none of my friends dress the way you describe. Ever. If my SO should choose to wear the clothes you describe at home, it would entirely be his prerogative.

4. What is your definition of femininity? (feel free to answer about masculinity as well!)

Ideals of femininity change based on changing social values. The 1950s femininity wasn’t the same as the 40s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, etc. A woman who relies on older concepts of femininity, such as being someone soft, tender, perhaps coquettish, perhaps even devoid of "manly" knowledge such as having a head for finance, mechanics, construction, etc, would not fare well in our modern, competitive world. We need to be strong, capable, and self-sufficient now, and even aggressive when it it is called for, all qualities that used to be considered within the male sphere. Likewise, modern masculinity is not the ultra macho stereotype anymore. Modern men can be caring, nurturing, and sensitive (i.e. my adult sons), without betraying their male gender. So any personality trait, career choice, personal preference, etc, is unisex. Emotions, careers, personal interests, etc, are shared by both men and women. The only difference is the way we look.

So what does femininity mean to me today in 2020? It is simply having a female body and everything that comes with it in contrast to the male sex: my breasts, vagina, higher voice than a male, smaller stature than most men, less body hair than most men, generally less physical strength, etc. In a nutshell, it’s purely physical. It has nothing to do with how I dress. I feel just as feminine wearing blue-jeans as dressing up for an occasion.

5. … in other words if something has not been explicitly forbidden then it must fly.

Yes, discussing boundaries is very important. If a husband or wife does not know his or her spouse’s boundary on any given matter, then they should ask before going ahead with it. This applies to everything, not just the crossdressing.

Mimi

04-28-2020, 03:28 PM

1. In your opinion, what is the reason why there seems to be much more MtF crossdressers than FtM?
Women do have more freedom to dress in a masculine way than men have to dress in anything resembling feminine attire. Because of this, I don't think society really considers it "cross dressing", although keep in mind that this hasn't always been the case. I remember when girls were finally allowed to wear slacks to school, and then were allowed to wear jeans. We didn't consider it cross-dressing, though--it was more a way to be comfortable and active. My thought is that we are seeing more young ftm people coming out because there is more treatment and knowledge available, and they don't have to fly under the radar by dressing in masculine clothes. I also think that the overt masculine dress (not to the point of facial hair, which strikes me as ftm rather than cross-dressing) was to move away from the feminine stereotype. I have known a couple of women who enjoyed dressing up smartly in suits for occasions when most women were wearing fancy dresses, but I don't know the reasoning behind it.

2. For those who go out with their SO dressed, do you go as friends (no demonstration of affection such as holding hands or kisses) or as a couple? If as friends only, is there a reason, such as fearing being identified as a lesbian couple?

I am not really comfortable presenting as a lesbian couple, because that isn't my personal history or backstory. I'm also afraid of public perspective and having someone threaten us, even though we live in an accepting area. I'm not someone who likes to stand out. My spouse has transitioned to 24/7 and there are places we go that only know her as she is now, so they accept us as a couple. Even so, I don't like to have people stare at us, even if they are just curious.

3. For GGs who dislike CDers dressing in a stereotypical way (e.g. tight clothing, short skirts, nylons, high heels, long hair, etc.), what are the reasons? Would the reasons be different for private CDing (dressing at home, not posting pictures), and for CDing with real world exposure (going out or posting pictures)?

I really, really dislike it. These clothes portray women in such a negative way--helpless, objects of desire, and an entirely male concept of what a woman should be. Very few women dress like this unless they are going to a vintage event or they are young and going clubbing. Whatever anybody wants to wear in the privacy of their home is their business, and if my spouse wanted to play dress up with these clothes then that would be her business. This forum would be an appropriate place to post pictures, if that was important. Otherwise it just screams "I'm a CDer from the 1950s and this is what I think women do". I think there's also a very real element of danger in wearing something clearly designed to attract male attention, and then going out. Not that I'm into victim-blaming, but there are very bad people out there who will hurt men that they think are trying to fool them or come on to them, so why put yourself in that situation? I wouldn't advise a woman to dress in the same manner and go out drinking by herself, either.

4. What is your definition of femininity? (feel free to answer about masculinity as well!) I don't have an answer for this--femininity is a state of being, not a feeling. It's like asking what it feels like to have brown hair, or be short or be right handed.

5. About anticipating GG's boundaries, many CDers have answered that they couldn't read minds and boundaries should be spelled out (in other words if something has not been explicitly forbidden then it must fly). What is your opinion on this?

What needs to be spelled out first is how important boundaries are to the spouse, and how flexible the spouse is about boundaries. If the spouse is a "line in the sand" type, then negotiate everything and don't assume anything. If your spouse is the type who says "I'm not comfortable with such and such but tell me why it's important" then I still wouldn't assume anything, but you might have more luck bringing it up for discussion. I would definitely disagree with the concept that just because we didn't discuss it, it must be okay. Do I really have to spell it out that I wouldn't want my spouse going on a dating site?

Dutchess

04-28-2020, 09:45 PM

Hi , I may switch these up as most know Ive been involved with two TOTALLY different people on the TG spectrum . So the answers are different as well .

1. In your opinion, what is the reason why there seems to be much more MtF crossdressers than FtM?
I see alot of reactions to stress in this arena . Most would never admit it but I see and have experienced everything from mid lifecrisis' , fear of failing at what THEY think a man should be to deaths of SO's , all kinds of things .. not to mention the vast sexual side of it . This does not include the drag performers , that's different .

2. For those who go out with their SO dressed, do you go as friends (no demonstration of affection such as holding hands or kisses) or as a couple? If as friends only, is there a reason, such as fearing being identified as a lesbian couple?
Ok , my ex husband did not want to go out with me , I thought it was his rather coolish Dutch culture but I later learned he was hoping to attract a chaser . He would try to look as much like platonic friends as possible .

My late SO and I could not keep our hands OFF of each other in public . We would put on a veritable show . We both wanted as many people as possible to see we were with each other lol good times <3 We didnt care how people saw us ..

3. For GGs who dislike CDers dressing in a stereotypical way (e.g. tight clothing, short skirts, nylons, high heels, long hair, etc.), what are the reasons? Would the reasons be different for private CDing (dressing at home, not posting pictures), and for CDing with real world exposure (going out or posting pictures)?

I wont go out with a caricature of a woman and have them think they should be taken seriously . I prefer mates with very long hair and ex husband and SO both had very long natural hair but my ex husband dressed in fetish/street level prostitution wear to do ordinary things , he thought this made him a goddess and more of a woman than anyone . I did not like this, I could not seem to find my place in the relationship . He also posted pics of himself like this on a site meant to attract men .

My SO wore normal current womens fashions and did not post pics , this helped . Like Reine stated I would not hang out with women that dressed that way or whos every waking moment centered around dressing and grooming and complimenting -- again -- We do NOT compliment like some here think we do .

4. What is your definition of femininity? (feel free to answer about masculinity as well!)

I have been thinking about this question a few days ... as I was running uphill one morning in my Seattle Seahawks running pants and a warm up top ... and still 100% female . Its an essence . Seriously ,, its nothing you can manufacture with make up or clothes or manicures .. that stuff is fun but not what makes us , us. HRT will not replace it or make it happen . Its not submission either . Its an essence . Masculinity can be so many things , SO many more facets to the oft mentioned redneck/macho types mentioned here . Todays masculinity is far more gentle and emotional . Masculinity for me is beautiful ( yes beautiful ) ,smart , mannerly and gentle. Fancy even , sort of a sleekness and not afraid to show vulnerability . Not rough or gross , etc .

5. About anticipating GG's boundaries, many CDers have answered that they couldn't read minds and boundaries should be spelled out (in other words if something has not been explicitly forbidden then it must fly). What is your opinion on this?[/QUOTE]

Sometimes I wonder about this . Like when they say they couldnt read minds as an excuse to do something they know would be a wreck . This is way more serious than many Cd-ers make it out to be , they wish it weren't so serious but they know it is .
I had to have boundaries with my ex husband because his life was always hidden and there was always something he was not telling .
My SO and I had no boundaries because everything was on the table , if I didn't like it I wouldnt have been with her .
Boundaries aren't so difficult if we know upfront .

confused_cathreen

04-29-2020, 08:02 AM

Although some do no apply to me since I don't live with a crossdresser, I will attempt to reply to express my way of thinking.

1. In your opinion, what is the reason why there seems to be much more MtF crossdressers than FtM?
I think the numbers are not representative of the reality for two reasons: One, if a woman wears something which is considered stereotypicaly male (to be honest, I don't know what that will be, a tuxedo or a three piece suit?), it will be cut to accommodate her natural body and then be considered made for females. If a woman wears something that is cut for a male body, there is no way it will fit her properly as there are anatomical differences that would make it impossible. So we have access to everything we need to express any variation to our identity already. Bear in mind, that hasn't happened painlessly, as women had to fight and persist to be "allowed" what we now consider "normal". Which brings me to point two: women would only up the ante to purely male attire (so buying from the male department) if they are FtM transmen. That normally is followed by hormones and SRS. At this point, they are not crossdressing and everyone knows that they are male. But I think that is the same for MtF, more crossdressers than transwomen. Correct me if I am wrong. So I think it's only a case of women wearing trousers for practicality and not because they consider it an expression of their gender identity that makes it appear like there are more MtF than FtM.

2. For those who go out with their SO dressed, do you go as friends (no demonstration of affection such as holding hands or kisses) or as a couple? If as friends only, is there a reason, such as fearing being identified as a lesbian couple?
N/A

3. For GGs who dislike CDers dressing in a stereotypical way (e.g. tight clothing, short skirts, nylons, high heels, long hair, etc.), what are the reasons? Would the reasons be different for private CDing (dressing at home, not posting pictures), and for CDing with real world exposure (going out or posting pictures)?
Fro me, it would come down to motivation. Why would you want to do dress in such a way in either environment. I know if I dress like this, there is a reason behind it. It's normally either to be appreciated by my partner or by other men. I am certainly not dressing to be appreciated by other women. So my motivation is clear. If our motivation is the same, then there is a problem. II have yet to meet a woman who would dress in "the outfit that time forgot" for personal pleasure so it baffles me. Now, whether it would have been different at home, I can't answer since I didn't have to deal with this at home and don't know if it would have been a compromise I would be willing to make.

4. What is your definition of femininity? (feel free to answer about masculinity as well!)
Strength, motherhood (not just to children, but to people too), peace keeping and the need to make the world a better place for everyone. I don't bat 100% but am a work in progress!

5. About anticipating GG's boundaries, many CDers have answered that they couldn't read minds and boundaries should be spelled out (in other words if something has not been explicitly forbidden then it must fly). What is your opinion on this?[/QUOTE]
Anything that is not discussed and is not agreed on is outside of the boundaries. You don't need to read minds to know that is the only way to approach crossdressing or any contentious subject. Everything else is excuses.

DianeT

05-04-2020, 03:45 PM

Thanks to all of you for your answers. Appreciate the insights. And my wife reads you too!

Robbiegirl

05-05-2020, 10:11 AM

Has you S.O. ever put on some lingerie that turned you on or at least made him look hot since it showed off his assets ?

I posted a thread about a cute babydoll nightie I have been sneaking around wearing. I think it really shows off my large shoulders, strong arms, and strong legs.

So maybe Guys can look sexy in lingerie also ! Or am I dreaming

Can most women look past the lace and see the manly man underneath ?

confused_cathreen

05-05-2020, 11:23 AM

I am confused by this question. Are you asking if lingerie can make a man look hot or if we can ignore the lingerie and think he looks hot underneath?

ReineD

05-05-2020, 03:55 PM

Yes, you are dreaming. Women’s lingerie is associated with women in GG’s eyes. And hetero GGs are not attracted to women.

A man’s naked chest is infinitely more sexy to a GG than his chest clad in lingerie. However, some of us can ignore the lingerie - pretend it isn’t there - if we love our SO and understand that he needs to crossdress. This doesn’t mean that we encourage the crossdressing in bed or that lingerie on our SO enhances the experience for us.

So to answer your question, no. The lingerie does not make him look hot.

char GG

05-05-2020, 05:00 PM

You are absolutely dreaming, Robbie.

As Reine stated, I am a hetero woman who is definitely not attracted to a man in lingerie. This seems to be more of a CD (um, maybe your) fantasy than a GG fantasy.

This is not to say that there are some GG's in the world that are attracted to the scenario that you describe but since you are asking the GG's on this forum, my answer is emphatically, NO.

Dutchess

05-05-2020, 07:11 PM

No and i am a hetero girl attracted to very androgynous male folk too, I obviously dont care what gender you want to present as . I am not visually stimulated like that .. I like alot of sensuality/beauty and who the person IS is what gets my attn.
Also my life experiences , my ex husband would HAVE to dress up in major lingerie to be able to be with me . So now that makes me feel like I alone am not good enough and you need that or else you will not be interested . I admit this last thing is exclusive to me and how that went down so .. not everyone is that way .

Miel GG

05-08-2020, 01:24 PM

Hi GG ladies. Some of these questions (2-5) are a follow up to the recent GG questions thread in the MtF forum, I would like to have your side of things in these matters.
I hope you don't mind the many questions, feel free to skip the ones you don't want to answer.

1. In your opinion, what is the reason why there seems to be much more MtF crossdressers than FtM?

As historically men didn't share the power, women were compelled to make believe that they were men to access to some freedom and empowerment. They had for example to use a male pseudo in art, etc. And of course dressed up like men to enter universities or exercice a masculine profession.

In the late 60's women in occident began to massively wear trousers which are male markers and also much more practical in everydays life. The trousers are also symbollically a way to defend access to their genitals (don't forget that every girl has experimented and/or feared that boys lift their skirt... Never happened with trousers of course).

Nowadays I presume that FtM are probably more TS than CD. In fact we have had popularized examples of female artists who began transitioning recently in France.

I also believe that men's clothes or appearance are much less eroticized in a patriarchal society.

3. For GGs who dislike CDers dressing in a stereotypical way (e.g. tight clothing, short skirts, nylons, high heels, long hair, etc.), what are the reasons? Would the reasons be different for private CDing (dressing at home, not posting pictures), and for CDing with real world exposure (going out or posting pictures)?

Wow. As GG and feminist I dislike this sort of stereotypical outfit. It tends to reduce women only to objects made for men's pleasure. I believe here CDs confuse (voluntarily ?) feminine outfits and over-eroticized (sexy in men's vocabulary) outfits. I don't deny to anyone the right to love this type of outfit but I cannot approve when they claim they present as women this way.

If my goal was to pass, I certainly would look around me and observe what women look like in real world. What is the chance that at 11am I see a woman dressed for Ibiza's nightclubbing ?
But if my goal was to turn me on, as an hetero CD I could try to present like a pop star or a movie star or any fantasized sexy girl. But I surely would not mystify myself by saying that I want anything else apart from excitement.

As GGs we integrated that wearing those will make us desirable.

4. What is your definition of femininity? (feel free to answer about masculinity as well!)

As I was born female and educated as a girl I learned how to be feminine (taking care of others, be patient, be pretty...). But for me femininity is a concept created by men to lock up women in a subordinate role in order to retain power only for themselves. For three centuries, femininity was opposite to masculinity : passivity, grace, softness... are used to describe women. Are really women like this ? Of course not ! Women can be tough, pushy,... But when they act like that, some say that they are not real ladies... Things change slowly, but thanks to feminists, nowadays women and men are allowed to adopt a behavior traditionally assigned to the opposite gender. So we see appearing women not so feminine (submissive) and men not so masculine (dominant) :)

Nevertheless women are subject to pressure from a society shaped by men for men. The term femininity, which is socially acceptable, lets men dictate their will and constrain women to act in order to please them. Among others, women are asked to be at least decorative and at most sexy. So femininity has nothing to do with clothes or make up. The more women are emancipated the more they reject the fact that femininity is linked to clothes or make-up.

Just a personal thought, as in this forum I often read that empathy is a feminine trait : recent scientific researchs have concluded that female and male children under 2 years are able to show empathy... Another unisex feature to meditate about !

5. About anticipating GG's boundaries, many CDers have answered that they couldn't read minds and boundaries should be spelled out (in other words if something has not been explicitly forbidden then it must fly). What is your opinion on this?

This is a hot topic ! Nobody is able to read minds of course, but only CDs are able to explain to SOs what CDing is consisting of for them. Most GGs don't know about CDing, and even if they do, they cannot imagine the extent of the CDing of their SO. This is the responsibility of the CD to explain what is his practice, what are his needs and maybe his wants. Only by knowing all that the SO will be able to process it and to set boundaries.

Generally commitment between two adults involve limits. So if boundaries are not explicity spelled out, please CDs don't speculate and ask your SO if it is OK. Prove your maturity by acting like that and accepting no for an answer. Don't forget that you are bringing CDing in the life of your SO and not the other way around.

Helen_Highwater

06-23-2020, 07:39 AM

The UK government is shortly to publish it’s proposals around gender self-identification and it seems to be heading in what for many in the LGBTQ community is a retrograde direction. One of the issues is around potentially giving legal protections to “Safe spaces” for women. This is thought to potentially include toilets and changing rooms.

One of the reasons offered is that if self-identification was allowed a male could wake up one morning having never been near any form of dressing or had any thoughts about their gender identity, decide they were female and thereby legitimately gain access to women’s toilets and changing rooms.

As those who live with SO’s who may present as female in public and it would seem well placed to understand the reasons why they do so, can I ask you to consider the following.

1. Accepting the very real need for women suffering both physical and mental abuse to have places of safety and given that the vast majority of abusers are known to their victims, is the notion of a safe space in relation to those in the LGBTQ community sharing facilities labelled for women just pandering to some people’s misconceptions and prejudices?

2. Although (at least in UK) the law has on the statute books many instruments by which persons seeking to invade female spaces on false pretenses (voyeuristic/sexual/violent) can be dealt with, i.e. action likely to cause a breach of the peace, behaviour likely to outrage common decency, lewd behaviour in a public place, common or sexual assault, do you feel that the as it stands further legislation is required and if so what form should it take?

3. If simple self-certification is not acceptable, what further measures in your opinion are required being mindful of the Trans community?

4. How do you see the law dealing with those who don’t wish to transition fully but present either full or part time as female such that it also ensures their safety while in public. Should the law accommodate their needs with a view to their safety and give them access to a safe space?

char GG

06-23-2020, 06:03 PM

Ok, I'll respond,

I am answering the questions as they were posed here. My personal opinion is that CDers and Trans people should be able to self identify and use the facilities where they also feel safest.

So to answer the questions as they were posed:

1. Accepting the very real need for women suffering both physical and mental abuse to have places of safety and given that the vast majority of abusers are known to their victims, is the notion of a safe space in relation to those in the LGBTQ community sharing facilities labelled for women just pandering to some people?s misconceptions and prejudices?

I think this statement is twofold and should not be asked as one question.
Yes, I agree that the majority of abusers are known to their victims. However, I don't think the abusers are following their victims into public facilities to cause havoc.

I understand that there are people, most likely not LGBTQ, that feel they can self-identify as a woman to gain entry to the ladies rooms for a lark. There are most likely stories of assaults at the hands of strangers in the public facilities. Not sure how common that is in the UK but it probably happens.

In the US, there are news stories of some men setting up cameras, cell phones, and video recorders in the ladies rooms. People that are caught are dealt with harshly but many are never caught.

2. Although (at least in UK) the law has on the statute books many instruments by which persons seeking to invade female spaces on false pretenses (voyeuristic/sexual/violent) can be dealt with, i.e. action likely to cause a breach of the peace, behaviour likely to outrage common decency, lewd behaviour in a public place, common or sexual assault, do you feel that the as it stands further legislation is required and if so what form should it take?

Those laws should be upheld. I don't know what has happened in the UK to cause a shift in the thinking of the government. I doubt very much that it was one or two isolated incidents.

I don't think it's possible to do gender checks as someone enters the private spaces. I did read some articles written by women who have been sexually assaulted (the articles didn't specify where the assaults took place). They have very real concerns and feel they deserve a private space where they don't have to worry about the motives of strangers. Also, ladies are not only using the facilities but using the common spaces to change clothes, fix broken straps, removing clothing items to wash out stains, etc. I don't think they should have to worry about who they are sharing the common spaces with. Women should feel safe going into the women's public facilities.

3. If simple self-certification is not acceptable, what further measures in your opinion are required being mindful of the Trans community?

Again, this is just my opinion; transwomen are women, they should not be excluded from the ladies rooms. I don't know how the government would monitor transwomen or those who are without surgery or still in the process of transitioning. Not sure if the UK has worked out the details.

I can tell you that many women have never heard of CDers or maybe not even trans people. I know it's hard for this community to believe that but I think that women seeing a man in a dress entering the ladies room has either made a mistake, will be alarmed, or think someone is trying to "sneak a peak".

4. How do you see the law dealing with those who don't wish to transition fully but present either full or part time as female such that it also ensures their safety while in public. Should the law accommodate their needs with a view to their safety and give them access to a safe space?

Not my place to make an accommodation needs idea. My SO usually has "single' toilet areas mapped out before he leaves the house. He always tries to stick to the single space option. This has worked out well for him. There have been no problems if he enters a single stall marked "women". I don't feel it's right for a private restaurant, office space, or the government to be expected to build additional facilities marked "other".

It seems to me that the majority is going to rule here, the majority being the CIS people. Right or wrong, it sounds like that is the way UK is taking this issue.

06-23-2020, 06:46 PM

All the reasons they are stating seem to me be myths .
Sick people wanting to act out nefarious activitys like the sexual assault mentioned ect will act out law or no law and has no business being included.
For me NONE STOP
The only safe thing is
using the bathroom that matches your gender identity, not the one that corresponds with the gender they were assigned at birth.
NO WAY would I ever have wanted Sherlyn to ever use the men?s room.

Helen_Highwater

06-29-2020, 02:30 PM

Thanks for your replies.

ReineD

07-05-2020, 03:00 PM

1. Accepting the very real need for women suffering both physical and mental abuse to have places of safety and given that the vast majority of abusers are known to their victims, is the notion of a safe space in relation to those in the LGBTQ community sharing facilities labelled for women just pandering to some people's misconceptions and prejudices?

I don't think the notion of a safe space panders to misconceptions and prejudices. Yes, there are some people who are prejudiced, but there are many who are not.

Did you know that 81% of women have experienced sexual harassment and over 50% of women have been a victim of some form of sexual assault?

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/21/587671849/a-new-survey-finds-eighty-percent-of-women-have-experienced-sexual-harassment
https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence

Due to various stages of undress, bathrooms and changing rooms are places where women feel most vulnerable, although I would guess more so in changing rooms than cubicle bathrooms. (Many? most?) women do not want to see a person with a penis in places where they are naked or half dressed, despite the understanding that no transsexual and (many? most?) crossdressers do not dress for sexual reasons. But, many crossdressers do dress for these reasons, and even if their intent is not to rape or to sexually harass, women do not want to be unwitting participants in anyone's crossdressing fantasy. Being an unwitting participant makes these GGs an object.

Also, exterior appearances give no clue to a person's identity as a transsexual, transgender, or a crossdresser. The women in bathrooms and changing rooms cannot know the identity or motives of people with penises who wish to use these facilities.

2. Although (at least in UK) the law has on the statute books many instruments by which persons seeking to invade female spaces on false pretenses (voyeuristic/sexual/violent) can be dealt with, i.e. action likely to cause a breach of the peace, behavior likely to outrage common decency, lewd behavior in a public place, common or sexual assault, do you feel that the as it stands further legislation is required and if so what form should it take?

Yes, there are sexual assault and harassment laws. But, few women report assault and harassment for the following reasons, see reason one, two, and three:

http://hrlibrary.umn.edu/svaw/harassment/explore/6reporting.htm

Also, (some? many? most?) women who do report are either victimized, or their reports are filed and not acted upon. It is easier to just keep quiet and move on. This is why it is important that the places where women are more vulnerable be free of people with penises.

3. If simple self-certification is not acceptable, what further measures in your opinion are required being mindful of the Trans community?

It's an individual thing. If a transsexual/transgender has not had SRS or if they look like a man wearing makeup and a wig (not all do), there should be options for gender-neutral facilities where men are not allowed, that can be used by both people who identify as transgender and by GGs who do not feel threatened by the presence of people with penises in these places. This might even be labeled "Women and Transgenders" and be considered the main facility, with a separate facility labeled "Women" for GGs who prefer a space free of people with penises. But, I would make both facilities the same size.

4. How do you see the law dealing with those who don't wish to transition fully but present either full or part time as female such that it also ensures their safety while in public. Should the law accommodate their needs with a view to their safety and give them access to a safe space?

See #3.

I realize that outward appearance does not always match internal gender ID and the view among the majority in the T community is that simple self-certification should be enough to allow access to the appropriate private facilities. In an ideal world where the vast majority of women had never been sexually harassed or assaulted, such access would not be an issue. But given the number of historical abuses at the hands of men and given that GGs cannot determine based on appearance someone else's gender ID, I think that GGs have the right to demand safe places to undress in, where there are no people with penises or no visibly male-looking people.

I don't count myself among the women who need safe places. But I do recognize there are many GGs who do. I disagree with labeling them all as prejudiced against the T community.

Aka_Donna

07-31-2020, 03:29 PM

Question:

What are GG's experiences with SO being criticized by other GG's for having a CD in the house?

Or even broader, what conversations/snipets have you experienced with being with a CD?

Background:
CD is only in home as fear is of nasty comments, shunning behavior, and other put downs for seeing a CD in same place as SO?
We have so much negative talk today in society, that this would be just too much.

So any feedback, especially along lines of
-- does this happen?
-- what type of things are said?
-- how is this behavior interpreted?
-- what are good responses?

Thank you all.

07-31-2020, 05:06 PM

I never had any comments and we had friends, my daughters and neighbors around us in our home and out and about.
I pretty much had like minded people in our circle.

I can not even imagine that kinda behavior in my home. If anyone would have they would have been shunned by me FOREVER.

char GG

07-31-2020, 05:34 PM

We've lived in our neighborhood of for over 40 years. Since my hubby didn't start cross dressing until approximately 7 years ago, some neighbors expressed surprise. But after that initial reaction, no one said anything negative. He only CDes to go out, so basically they see him walk from the house to the car. I believe at first, they didn't think that I knew he was outside CDed. After I told them that I was ok with it, they were ok with it. They treat him the same as they always have. Our closest neighbor said, "well, live and let live".

The only one who didn't really understand was our handicapped son who does not live with us. He doesn't really like to see his dad CD'ed it but doesn't complain, basically he just doesn't want to see it.

Our daughter doesn't live near us but she doesn't care whether he CD'es or not. She lives in a large city and has seen and knows other trans and CDers.

Dutchess

07-31-2020, 07:25 PM

No , not here either . If ANYONE I knew did any of that it would be the last time they ever did . We also had our friends and two of my daughters and their wild friends . We had ALOT of people in the house over the years .

If you are mine - and that goes for both my wacky ex husband or my beloved late longtime companion -I defend you to the end just like I would hope you defend me . Period .

Now my late fiance( Kat) and I were always just soppingly in love and would readily engage in lots of PDA and sometimes ,yes, people we did not know would stare I am sure some was how s/he was presenting and alot was how we were with each other but ,really, we didn't care . No one said anything about Kats appearance at all.
My ex husband would never go out but he had alot of inner shame/guilt .

If anyone you actually knows bothers you like that you don't need to hang around with them anyway

Aka_Donna

08-01-2020, 08:15 AM

Thank you

ReineD

08-03-2020, 03:41 AM

SirDonna,

In the beginning of our relationship my SO was branching out and wanted to tell people who weren’t in this community. So we decided that I could tell my best friend. It seemed to us that she was open minded. And on my own, I told my brother. Everyone else who knew was involved in the LGBTQ community.

There was no negative talk per se, no insults, no shunning. But, there was disapproval. I think this came from a simple lack of understanding - a lack of exposure to people who crossdress. Both my friend and my brother thought it was an odd thing to do, even though they didn’t put it in those terms exactly. My friend had been invited to come out to dinner with my SO and I (with SO in girl mode), but she made excuses not to go. My brother asked if I was sure I wanted to be in a relationship with a crossdresser. They both knew that I was supportive and was not about to leave my SO.

Over the years we’ve done things with my friend and my brother (although with my SO in guy mode), and they always treated my SO with respect. But, the crossdressing was never brought up. They simply were not interested in talking about it or being involved. And now it’s been so long it’s as if I had never told them.

I think that very few people who know you or your girlfriend will hurl insults to your faces. This has only happened to us once, while we were on an outing and walking on the sidewalk. A group of teenage boys drove by, clocked my SO, and said something nasty out their car window. Most people not attached to this community will keep their real opinions to themselves, if they disapprove.

Aka_Donna

08-04-2020, 12:30 AM

Again, thank you. We had a interesting discussion and now it's a legacy concern but not a red flag concern presently. We'll see how it goes this month as we are trying a new compromise

Stephanie47

08-10-2020, 11:49 AM

How Would You React?

There is an open thread in the general section concerning a husband having a "GG" cross dressing buddy. The husband is in a DADT marriage. The wife is not aware of this woman and that her husband goes to this woman's home for nothing more than emotional support and assistance. I realize the women on this site are more supportive of their cross dressing husband. That being said, if you were in a DADT marriage what would your response be to this relationship if it became known to you?

char GG

08-10-2020, 04:10 PM

No no and no! If the husband was totally transparent and told his wife about this other woman, then maybe it would be ok, depending on a lot of things. Big maybe. Otherwise, what he is doing is sneaking around claiming it's emotional support but keeping it a secret. I would be livid. That behavior is so disrespectful.

To put the shoe on the other foot, married women don't usually go to a "guy's" house for "emotional support" without telling their SO about it. I can see big trouble out of that scenario.

Dutchess

08-10-2020, 07:37 PM

I had to read the thread several times and Chars response before I could calm down to answer and I am not even married anymore lol

He even says his wife was not angry about his clothing , that they simply never spoke of it again ? Perhaps they should speak of it again together ... Yeah , Id be finding a way to non violently get back . I would cause trouble for him .As big a trouble as I could for HER so shed think twice about doing that again , with my man or anyone else's .

Then, Id take up with a hot companion of my own ... just to go to the movies and all , watch tv , go to the symphony etc etc ..... I mean if they can go on shopping dates together / walks around the neighborhood / stay in and have a good time etc ... then I can do that too. Right ????

Honestly I would be so disappointed and hurt .

08-11-2020, 10:42 AM

If the wife was on board with this other person and had full knowledge
But not the case it seems here.
So to me it seems like an emotional affair as the cd would anticipate alone time or communication with thefriend, think that your friend understands you better than your spouse,
Would decrease time with your spouse ,Keeping your friendship a secret, Preoccupation or daydreams about your friend and dressing
Sharing thoughts, feelings, about your dressing with your friend instead of your wife.
ADD to all of the above
From experience it can be a very intimate and takes the emotional affair to the next level.

To answer your question how would I react ?
I would find to be the Ultimate betrayal and not sure if the relationship would survive.

Miel GG

08-11-2020, 12:23 PM

I think this behavior isn't mature, neither for the CD nor the GG buddy (if she is aware that the CDer is acting behind the back of her wife). Acting like this is definitely the best way to have couple issues and to deeply hurt the wife.

There are a lot of kinds of DADT. I don't know if this couple has discussed about boundaries but I can easily imagine that the wife has never thought that her husband would engage in an emotional relationship of this kind with a GG behind her back. Because the wife isn't a mind reader, the CD cannot skip a serious discussion to explain his needs to his wife (going out for instance). We all need emotional support from our friends from time to time, but in full transparency with our SO.

confused_cathreen

08-17-2020, 03:20 AM

To me, this read like the CDer took it on himself to justify an emotional affair by using the DADT relationship with his wife as an excuse. DADT does not mean "you do whatever you want behind my back as long as I don't get to find about it". If the wife thought the same way, she could easily justify to herself having an affair as long as the hubby never found out. Very juvenile behaviour.

ReineD

08-22-2020, 03:24 AM

This did happen early in our relationship and it almost ended it. My SO had befriended a woman he wanted to have as his own (not "our") friend. Strictly platonic from his end, but not from hers. My SO wanted to have his very own femme bonding experience with a GG, without me involved. She was willing to play along with it because she had ulterior motives. All my spidey senses told me this was a disaster in the making. I asked my SO to not see her without me but he did end up meeting her for lunch behind my back, I think several times. It almost ended our relationship. I wrote about it in here and had several pages of responses, all saying that my SO should have respected my feelings and not have gone behind my back. I showed him the thread and he finally decided to not see her alone anymore. It took awhile for me to fully trust my SO again.

Definitely not a good idea. The only successful relationships are those where there is complete and total honesty.

River GG

08-22-2020, 08:19 AM

Can I just say I love these questions? Answering them might help me in my process too. here we go.

1. In your opinion, what is the reason why there seems to be much more MtF crossdressers than FtM?
So the easy answer is because women can buy and wear mens clothes of just about any type and get masculine haircuts without turning heads. They can express a masculine side without feeling taboo. Women are brought up more and more as the decades past to be strong. To answer "you're so pretty" with "and I'm smart too". To climb the corporate ladder. To crush the stereotypes of being ruled by emotion, being weak, crying all the time... As a society, all women are encouraged to be more of a man. Equally, I have tried to raise my son to be sensitive but it's so much harder. The world we live in still wants the men to be men. Hear that? the women should be tough like men and the men have to be men, and so sensitivity is out the door. For both sexes.

2. For those who go out with their SO dressed, do you go as friends (no demonstration of affection such as holding hands or kisses) or as a couple? If as friends only, is there a reason, such as fearing being identified as a lesbian couple?
I have no answer for this but thank you for asking so I can read others answers. I'm not sure what the difference would be if he were dressed male vs female because it's not as if we're hanging all over each other when we're out on date night anyway. So I wonder, how *would* it be different? I'm not sure it would. We don't have any control over what other people perceive, right?

3. For GGs who dislike CDers dressing in a stereotypical way (e.g. tight clothing, short skirts, nylons, high heels, long hair, etc.), what are the reasons? Would the reasons be different for private CDing (dressing at home, not posting pictures), and for CDing with real world exposure (going out or posting pictures)?
Same answer as I read before - whatever someone is wearing should be appropriate for the situation. If my daughter wore fishnet stockings, a mini skirt, and heels to the movies, I would worry about her being objectified, picked up by some creep, and mistreated because her dressing says "objectify me." In private would be acceptable because it's akin to playing dress-up.

4. What is your definition of femininity? (feel free to answer about masculinity as well!)
Another excellent question and I've been soul searching myself on this one. What IS *MY* definition of femininity? As GGs, FAB, with CD partners, this has to be answered because I think it helps get at the root of our experience. For me, then, I think it mostly comes down to sensitivity. And now that I think about it, I was drawn to my DH because of his sensitivity long before I learned about the CDing. Femininity has soft edges, be it in personality, or in clothing. I think that's it for me.

5. About anticipating GG's boundaries, many CDers have answered that they couldn't read minds and boundaries should be spelled out (in other words if something has not been explicitly forbidden then it must fly). What is your opinion on this?
It's unfair for a newly involved SO to be expected to set boundaries that don't move. Period. We're learning too. We don't know what we can handle until we, sadly, realize we can't handle something. How about assume the opposite? If a boundary has not been set, or an area has not been discussed, safer to assume it WON'T fly. People continue to evolve so while some really broad boundaries might stick for long periods, there will continue to be grey areas and we should both have the freedom to grow.

DianeT

08-22-2020, 04:06 PM

Thanks for your answers River!

Crissy 107

08-30-2020, 11:09 AM

What is your acceptance level of your husband or SO, 10 being very accepting and encouraging down to a 1 which is of course is close to none.
Also has it always been the same?

Dutchess

08-30-2020, 11:02 PM

Ill go first this time .
Well it depends actually .
My ex husband had a VAST secret life under his cding and tried very hard to keep it from me . He did not tell me but instead I found out the hard way catching him in action . This was three years into the marriage . He got very angry with me that he had been exposed and became very aggressive about it so it was just weird and no I did not like it at all . He was not the person he wanted me to think he was . He got real pink foggy and it just got worse and worse . 1

Kat was TG and I knew from the beginning , s/he was already all the way out . I met him as a friend through a friend here - friends only first for an entire year. s/he was completely up front , no secrets and it was 100% ok . S/he was WAY more concerned about us and our life as a couple than any clothing or lifestyle . That helped . 10

I'm not sure how I feel about it today . Some of the things I read here are off the hook .

char GG

08-31-2020, 05:05 AM

Mine is now a 10 but it started out as a 1. My SO didn't start CDing until he was in his 60's. I was one of those who didn't know CDing was a "thing" in the real world. It took a lot of time and discussion along with trust to get to a 10.

08-31-2020, 11:22 AM

Mine was at a 10 but I knew from the beginning and no secrets. It was who Sherlyn was none of this hobby / kink thing it was real life .
I am Kinda on the same wave link as Dutchess some of the things I read here from some are off the hook / example pretending it is only panties and gradually adding as to not upset with the truth ( the baby step method)or the constant lies and hiding. It would be zero.

confused_cathreen

09-01-2020, 01:00 PM

Even though it no longer applies to me, I will reply as I am one of those who had it thrust into the relationship after a lot of years. I could never forgive the lie and the hiding so started at 1, finished at 0. Would I have gotten to at least a 4? I will never know, the lack of communication on the subject didn't allow any positive move. But the positive is that I learned it's not for me. So not all bad!

ReineD

09-02-2020, 03:52 AM

Very early in our relationship my SO told me that he didn’t want me to encourage him to dress. He wanted it to be his decision and looking back, I think he was striving for internal balance. He knew that I didn’t mind the crossdressing, and so he felt free to dress whenever he wanted to. I always go along cheerfully when my SO wants to go out dressed. I suppose I’m a 10, even though I don’t encourage. After all, the desire resides in his internal landscape, not mine. Also, the bulk of clothing storage space in this house is allocated to my SO. I don’t mind that either. I get that CDs really, really like clothes. :)

Sarah21

09-02-2020, 01:30 PM

When do women know that it goes deeper than crossdressing for their partner? I was honest with my ex but as soon as I said it, she said that answerered a lot of questions she had. She didn't care about about the clothes, she just didn't feel comfortable being with another woman which I understand.

She was the one that encouraged me to find out who I am even though I know she was deeply hurt in the process. She is still an amazing friend.

char GG

09-02-2020, 04:05 PM

Hi Sarah,

For my SO, it is all about the clothes so I am not really able to answer your question. Most wives aren't attracted to other women the same way they are attracted to men. I'm glad you and your ex are still friends.

Crissy 107

09-02-2020, 09:09 PM

Thank You to all the GG’s who took the time to post to my question. I appreciate it. Crissy

09-03-2020, 12:51 AM

Sarah21,
In our case although Sher had done this since very young, She like many hid it and it was rarely visited but it was always on her mind.
Fast forward , divorced, we met, was just newly free to be, we explored it together, I just felt years in by words and actions this was her true self. I just let her find her way and it did not matter as he, she was the one I loved. But we started out that way and I knew the girl side from the beginning.
So my answer will probably be different than most wives.But I suspected it was more but was along side while she was figuring it out.
I am glad you and your ex are great friends.

Dutchess

09-03-2020, 08:00 PM

Trying to figure out how to verbalize this ..

Its more of what Kat did not do that told me ...
S/he just got on with everyday living . Even though she presented female everyday and was totally out it was not a constant topic of conversation . She was always trying to get me to hear a song , see a video or movie . We had art projects we worked on together , theater we went too , s/he free climbed and skied and loved to watch me compete on the horses running around the arena with the camera .

We had a full life that just did not revolve around dressing or feminizing , hoping wishing , hiding , no living in fantasy land/ crazy stories . Her clothes were just what she wore . Not the focal point . She made me the focal point ;)

Yes if we saw something nice we talked about it because she did couture sewing and we loved British and French designers - but it was treated as another art form we loved .
I would forget she even presented female alot of the time .

Sarah21

09-04-2020, 09:47 PM

Thank You ladies for your replies. I dunno, life is so strange, losing someone I love because of something I have no choice about was just so awful for both of us. But we are still in each others lives, but in a different way and hopefully we will both end up happier for it.

ReineD

09-07-2020, 03:56 PM

Very early in our relationship my SO told me he didn't want to transition, meaning no hormones or modification of his body in any way (other than surface modifications such as the removal of body hair, growing nails, piercing ears, using breast forms when dressing, etc). This told me that he wasn't going to go "deeper".

In terms of self-identification, it doesn't really matter what word is used, since everyone has their own word to define who they are, be it TG, CD, dual-gender, bi-gender, trans, etc. What matters is what they actually do - modify their body, or not. If someone makes the decision to not modify their body, (they want to continue functioning as a male sexually - and by this I strictly mean getting pleasure from using male body parts), then the "depth" to which someone goes is really just a a matter of style preference; how much they engage in what I consider are stereotypical vs non-stereotypical facets of femininity. By stereotype I mean that most GGs do not engage in the degree of primping, passion for clothes, obsession for girly things like many members here so again, it's just a matter of where in life someone chooses to place their focus. As to the frequency of dressing, I suppose this depends on a person's circumstances. Some people can dress more or less frequently than others depending on their jobs and who they want to continue hanging out with, so this in my view isn't really a matter of identity. It's a matter of practicality.

As to the rest of a "feminine" ID, in my view a person's character, emotional landscape, intellect, activity preference, career choice, ability to nurture or be aggressive, etc, is not gendered at all. Both men and women have the ability to span the full spectrum in all of these things, so there is no "going deeper" there. If someone likes to sew clothing or cook, this is no longer viewed as being a feminine thing to do. There are male tailors and cooks and they are not seen as girly.

So no, I never got to the point of knowing that it was "deeper" for my SO, because he told me at the onset what his limits were. Now I have to say that it took awhile for me to believe him in the early years when my SO was ramping up his presentation, buying more and more clothes, going out more and more. I didn't know if his limits would change from what he had told me. But things have settled down considerably in recent years and it turns out that what my SO told me in the beginning was accurate.

Kelli_cd

10-28-2020, 04:03 PM

As I put on my matching bra and panties this morning (Soma Memorable Full Coverage with Lace Trim and Soma Vanishing Edge Microfiber with Lace Hipster, both in Rouge), I wondered why is it that so many women only wear white, beige or black undergarments?
Matching sets make me feel especially pretty. I want to believe GG's would feel pretty in this, too.

P.S. Underdressing is all I get to enjoy.

char GG

10-28-2020, 04:23 PM

I've never really asked women in "my circle" of friends if they wear matching underwear. So, I have no idea how many (when you say "so many"). However, maybe matching underwear isn't a big deal to the women who wear neutral colors.

Personally, I could not care less if my underwear matched.

If that's all you get to enjoy, have fun with it.

ReineD

10-29-2020, 02:38 AM

I wondered why is it that so many women only wear white, beige or black undergarments?
Matching sets make me feel especially pretty. I want to believe GG's would feel pretty in this, too.

Strong colors can show through some clothes, especially the thinner, lighter, summer clothes. I choose undergarments as close to my skin color as possible so as to not have them show through. And since my undergarments carry me through all seasons, I don't bother having different summer and winter undergarments. I own a total of 2 identical bras and about 10 panties in light beige, that I replace when they wear out.

I also don't care if they match. And bras and panties don't make me feel pretty. They're strictly utilitarian. Honestly I forget I even have them on. I also don't care what other people wear under their clothes. I can't think of anything that would interest me less. I think that only crossdressers care about such things.

That said, the few times in my life that I HAVE wanted my bras and panties to be especially matchy and sexy and lacey and all, was in my new relationships with men. I wanted my men to think me sexy in them. But after decades together, this type of thing loses importance.

So just as you wonder why women don't feel the same about underwear as you do, I wonder why so many crossdressers (not just you) feel compelled to describe in great detail their bras and panties. I can't tell you how many members here have described their underthings when they describe an outfit they've worn. I really don't get it.

10-29-2020, 03:56 AM

I probably have if it was a gift but most likely still did not wear together. :)
For me I would rather consider what I am wearing on the top and bottom of my outfit and select the item that will work best underneath.

I guess for you it is your little secret what you are wearing matching underneath ( and that is fine enjoy) I never till coming here in the forum read so much detail and maybe Obsession with under garments .

confused_cathreen

10-29-2020, 10:45 AM

Lol....nah, I don't care. No woman I know cares. Got all colours and a few sets but dont care about the matching either, I got way too many important things in my life to bother with trivialities like these. Pretty or sexy or attractive is a state of mind. Doesn't depend on your clothes or, even less, on your underwear. As Reine said, totally utilitarian. I wish I could not wear any! That would be the dream!

Dutchess

10-29-2020, 03:09 PM

My gal friends and I don't talk about undergarments at all , lingerie or anything . PLUS I have said this a few times on the forum, but I have not worn underwear( panties ) since 1981 when I was 18 because it feels very binding to me.
Like I just cannot tolerate it at all .

I think I have one white bikini pair for totally all out emergencies but that's it . I try as hard as possible not to wear a bra either but I have too sometimes . Like the ladies above me said its because the colors you mentioned really do go with everything .
No they dont make me feel pretty , no more than putting on an old comfy t shirt .

I am actually pretty aggravated that I cannot go without a bra and look good !

I don't know what kind of bras I have at all , I never know what they are and are prone to getting them at the dollar store . I am not even sure what size I am lol . If it fits then fine .

Edit : I understand that if all you can do is underdress than you may place alot more importance on it than if you were in another circumstance .

Elizabeth1980

10-30-2020, 05:59 PM

I was wondering why many women like gay men, and enjoy their company, but dislike crossdressers. It is because of a lack of understanding of crossdressers? Compared to gay men, who women can understand more easily because they are both attracted to men?

char GG

10-30-2020, 08:16 PM

I like personalities. If gay men have a nice personality, then we can be friends. The same goes for crossdressers, if they have a nice personality, we can also be friends. The same is true for cis men and women. Who people are attracted to doesn't even cross my radar.

I think your question maybe based on your own experiences which you did not elaborate on.

ReineD

10-31-2020, 02:40 AM

I was wondering why many women like gay men, and enjoy their company, but dislike crossdressers.

Why do you think that women who like gay men dislike crossdressers?

It’s been my experience that if a woman is not prejudiced against men who are same-sex attracted, she won’t dislike a crossdresser just because he’s a crossdresser. As to your theory that women understand gay men more easily than crossdressers because both women and gay men are attracted to men, I disagree. Women are attracted to hetero men and gay men are attracted to gay men - two vastly different types of men. :)

I cannot understand same-sex attraction or a desire to crossdress because I’m straight and I don’t crossdress, but I can still be friends with gay men, gay women, crossdressers, transsexuals, or anyone else who is different than me … providing they don’t have negative character traits. And like Char, this applies to everyone whether they are gay, straight, crossdressers, or not.

10-31-2020, 03:29 AM

Speaking of myself I can be friends and enjoy company of any like minded person.

Others I think are indifferent and the ones that might not like crossdressers just do not understand it because they are not exposed to it. For many crossdressers are closeted and a private thing and just not out there. Most gays I known are proud and out there.
And reading here many cders are private , some ashamed and many secretive.
So generally GGs are not exposed to cders so it feels like something odd or scary.

confused_cathreen

10-31-2020, 11:49 AM

Although this is not a discussion thread, I will ask the OP to define the word "like". What do you mean by "many women like gay men but dislike crossdressers"? What does the word "like" mean in this context?

Elizabeth1980

11-03-2020, 05:20 AM

Thanks for your responses to my question, I enjoyed reading them all.

CharGG – yes, my question is based on my own experiences, which are different from other peoples’ experiences and so may not be an accurate reflection on society as a whole. I will elaborate more on my experiences below.

Confused Cathreen - When I say ‘like’ I mean tolerate/accept, invite into their social group etc.

Reine D – why do I think women dislike crossdressers? I think that some women see crossdressing as sick and abnormal, and objectifies women by trying to emulate their attraction to women onto their own body (a form of narcissism, or self-love). I think women see it as self-indulgent behaviour (my Mum once called crossdressing self- indulgent, and an ‘affliction’). But maybe I am wrong, the GGs on this forum are more accepting of crossdressing.

I work in a place where there are many gay men and they seem to get along really well with women. Even the gay men who have some negative character traits seem to be thought well of by the women there. But in the years I have worked there, there has only been one crossdresser who came to work dressed, and he did not have that same level of acceptance that the gay men have. He was treated by women more as an oddity than as one of the group, I think.

Similarly, when I have seen other crossdressers out on their own in the shops, I’ve seen women say things like ‘oh my god’ in shock, etc. Or just stare at the crossdresser, then say negative things about them with they have gone away. I have personally had the experience of being stared down by women while out shopping for fem clothes, and one woman said to another once when I was nearby ‘there are a lot of perverts around today.’ This is just my individual experience, but I don’t think gay men would have such negative experiences as do crossdressers.

ReineD

11-05-2020, 03:11 PM

I work in a place where there are many gay men and they seem to get along really well with women. Even the gay men who have some negative character traits seem to be thought well of by the women there. But in the years I have worked there, there has only been one crossdresser who came to work dressed, and he did not have that same level of acceptance that the gay men have. He was treated by women more as an oddity than as one of the group, I think.

Maybe it has more to do with your own feelings of inadequacy or lack of confidence, or your friend’s personality (if he was the type that didn’t make friends easily) than you think. It’s hard to imagine a guy getting along with GGs at work when he is not crossdressed, and then suddenly being ostracized when he is.

IMO if a GG thinks that the crossdressing is sick and abnormal, then she will also extend that judgement to gay men. In fact, most GGs who haven’t been exposed to gay men or crossdressers haven’t spent any time thinking deeply about the differences between the two; many GGs initially assume that crossdressers are gay anyway! One of the first question that wives ask their husbands when they first find out is, "Are you attracted to men". I don’t know how many uninitiated GGs even take the time to consider that crossdressers objectify women or they indulge in self-love. I’m guessing that most would have neutral feelings about crossdressers and gay men, unless they grew up with rigid conservative values against both gay and crossdressing men. Does this make any sense?

Also you need to consider visual cues. Generally there are no visual cues that men are gay, at least not among the gay men that I know … unless they have flamboyant mannerisms like Jack on Will & Grace, which I consider is a caricature (stereotype) more than real life gay behaviors. There are similarly no (or very few) visual cues that a crossdresser in male mode is a crossdresser. But if you put an average gay man in the same room as a crossdressed man, there is a huge visual difference, which may account for an uninitiated GG thinking "WTF" when she first enters the room. But again, if she doesn’t have rigid conservative values, then IMO her initial surprise at seeing her coworker crossdressed will soon give way to the same neutral view she will have after she finds out another coworker is gay.

As to being stared at in a negative way by GGs when you are out shopping, I’m guessing that not all GGs react that way. Those that do have rigid conservative values and they would also stare if they saw two men holding hands or kissing.

confused_cathreen

11-05-2020, 05:17 PM

Personally, and anyone I know and socialise with, have only one requirement to add you to our social circle: do you fit in with our way of thinking? Racists, sexist, anti-vexxers, climate deniers, bigots and all their lot need not apply. We don't go out actively seeking out the gay men or the lesbian women to add "diversity" to our group. I have met gay men that I considered too "catty" for my liking so they didn't make the cut either. Crossdressers just didnt happen to come along in my life. But I like my relationships uncomplicated so men are welcome when it is clear that there is no danger of them using the friendship group to hit on women. That's where gay men have an advantage: I don't have to worry about that as they would have no interest in me or my other female friends. We want to be able to chill and be ourselves without having to justify our thinking or fend off unwanted attention. A straight crossdresser would have to pass the same "tests" as the straight non-dresser. What you wear is no concern of mine.
When it comes to a romantic relationship, it is a concern of mine though and I don't want that. That's the only scenario where crossdressers need not apply.

GwenHerself

11-18-2020, 03:37 PM

Thank you so much in advance!

1. Do you feel like crossdressing gives your SO better insight into female issues and struggles, or do you think it's more surface level fun?

2. I know you ladies are all very supportive, but is it a turn off for you when your SO dresses?

3. What do you enjoy most about your SO's crossdressing?

4. What do you enjoy least about your SO's crossdressing?

char GG

11-18-2020, 05:21 PM

I'll go first. Just to be clear, my SO didn't start CDing until late in life.

1. No, my SO only knows more about women's clothes. He is empathetic to most issues and struggles of all people (not specifically female or male) but that wasn't because of CDing, that's just the way always was.
2. It's not a turn off but it's not a turn on either. He is the same person no matter what he wears. The biggest turn off for me is if he wears perfume.
3. He likes it, it does nothing for me.
4. It's very time consuming. If he is going to go out for the day, he spends five hours getting ready because he only dresses to go OUT. It's his time, if he enjoys spending that much time, then that's fine. It doesn't effect me (unless I'm waiting for him).

11-18-2020, 06:39 PM

1. Do you feel like crossdressing gives your SO better insight into female issues and struggles, or do you think it's more surface level fun?

1)Not surface fun as it was who Sherlyn was and yes somewhat

2. I know you ladies are all very supportive, but is it a turn off for you when your SO dresses?

2)Never, we met as Sher and Di and fell madly in love.

3. What do you enjoy most about your SO's crossdressing?

3)We just did everything together, when she was newly divorced and went from closet to out and free. We took the journey together over the years. We Enjoyed our life being free.

4. What do you enjoy least about your SO's crossdressing?[
4) Sher made the decision to work as a male, so sometimes the depression she felt changing back.That was hard for both of us.

Teresa

11-18-2020, 08:08 PM

Dutchess

11-18-2020, 09:58 PM

Hi Gwen
You are newish here so I will say that Kat my companion passed and I have had time and counseling to look back over our relationship - what I think now had changed a little over the 3 years s/he has been gone .

1. Do you feel like crossdressing gives your SO better insight into female issues and struggles, or do you think it's more surface level fun?

No , Kat thought it did but I could still see s/he looked at it through a males eye . Sometimes it was subtle , but I can look back now and see that .

2. I know you ladies are all very supportive, but is it a turn off for you when your SO dresses?

No , we met after she was out and we had so many other interests together that clothes were just clothes. Sometimes s/he would wear very androgynous things too , plus I prefer VERY androgynous gender bending males so it wasnt too far a leap . I loved her make up and she just wore her natural nails painted all the time. Her hair was natural down to her waist so most of her WAS her not a costume .

3. What do you enjoy most about your SO's crossdressing?
This is kind of different but I loved her couture sewing and how she dressed me like a beautiful barbie doll . She adored me and enjoyed dressing ME so that was a benefit , we liked the same designers , we met talking about a designer we both loved .

4. What do you enjoy least about your SO's crossdressing?

Well she wanted to transition but I understand now that she had some very serious problems that I think needed to be addressed and she would not . Dressing and HRT/surgery was not a cure for the issues she had . I wished she would have sought help , real help .

Ill get to you Teresa ...

11-19-2020, 06:15 AM

I know this question has a few variables such as the length of the marriage and if children are involved or not but if you CDing partner does transition what would you miss the most from the man you first married ?

From my personal perspective after 45 years I feel my (ex) wife has just lost her unpaid handyman , sadly now she's now started telling me how much she loved me .

I will answer your question with a non answer lol.
I do not see why anyone would miss anything as they are the same person. Sher was a exceptional musician and that never changed .I cannot see how anything would change .
The couples I know in RL nothing they did before really changed after transition, the love and respect remain and if one partner is more the organizer, or cook or whatever I do not really see in couples I know anything changing in the example you gave (handyman)

That Being divorced, I guess your wife misses you not being in the home fixing things but you still fix things in your home.

Add answering having to do with our life. Sher lived her life with me as a female except for work ( her choice) There was no difference and I wish it would have been her choice to not continue to work in guy mode/ that caused her depression but it was her decision.

GwenHerself

11-19-2020, 08:25 AM

Thank you all for the replies, and Dutchess, thank you for sharing a bit of your story. I'm very sorry for your loss.

char GG

11-19-2020, 11:20 AM

Teresa,

If my SO would truly transition, I would miss the manly features that I enjoy. Such as beard stubble, chest hair, the way he looks in his men's skinny jeans, muscular arms, mostly visual things. He could and would still be able to fix and build things because those are some of his gifts. I doubt that he would stop doing things he liked to do as a man just because of a transition.

Dutchess

11-20-2020, 09:50 AM

Teresa ,

In all the years you've talked about your situation , I never thought your wife ever stopped loving you . Alot of times people act out when they are afraid or even sad and the feel ike their lives are out of control .
My ex husband used to talk similarly about me to his trans group he secretly belonged too , when I saw the things he said about me I was heartsick , they didnt know the whole story , just what he put out there .

When he came out he turned into someone I didn't know . At all . He became a caricature of a female impersonator . It was like the man I married vanished . I am sure she misses the man she married and the father of her kids. You all were together a very long time .
Even though you are still you things HAVE changed .

Even if it is best for both of you , she cannot help but wish things hadnt gone the way they did . Youve said in the past that sex had been a big issue and I wish you all could have had some serious talks about it to see if it could've been worked out in some way .
In my case I missed the intimacy and who he was in general - that person was gone . I had no idea until after we were married and he was literally carried away by the pink fog and yes , I see and I KNOW people who go the whole way in transition carried by the fog .

I knew a mtf couple ,no surgery , been together years , YEARS. One finally completed surgical transition and of all things became a nun ! Her longtime tg gf was just crushed,blindsided and stayed heartbroken a really long time .

It completely depends on the people and the relationship but I know she sees you as far more than a handyman .

ReineD

11-20-2020, 02:34 PM

1. Do you feel like crossdressing gives your SO better insight into female issues and struggles, or do you think it's more surface level fun?

I’m trying to figure out what you think are female issues and struggles, because I’ve never felt limited because of my sex. I’ve gone as far as my education would allow professionally; I’ve never been told I could not do this or that because I am female; I’ve not been preyed upon sexually by men, etc. But in answer to your question, no. Wearing women’s clothing does not change my SO’s background, personality, or his attitudes and opinions about any subject you can think of.

2. I know you ladies are all very supportive, but is it a turn off for you when your SO dresses?

No. And it’s not a turn-on. I support the crossdressing because I know that my SO enjoys the crossdressing.

3. What do you enjoy most about your SO's crossdressing?

I’m neutral. There is no "enjoying most", or "enjoying least" for that matter. Again, I support my SO because I love him, but if he was not a crossdresser I would not love him more nor would I love him less. The crossdressing is his thing, not mine.

4. What do you enjoy least about your SO's crossdressing?

There is no "enjoying least" about the crossdressing in itself. But, I don’t enjoy the need for secrecy. Nor would I enjoy the fallout if we hadn’t made the decision to keep this private. This applies to the crossdressing just as much as anything else we wouldn't want to broadcast to the world.

if you CDing partner does transition what would you miss the most from the man you first married ?

Nothing, unless my SO transitioned physically with hormones, breast augmentation, and SRS. Breasts and vaginas are a complete turn-off for me. But if your definition of transition is simply presenting as a female most of the time, then this is just surface stuff. Packaging. My SO’s character, personality traits, talents, opinions, attitudes, etc, do not change according to how he is dressed (nor would they change if he had a physical transition), just as mine don’t change whether I wear a dress or blue jeans and a flannel shirt.

As to your wife, I’m sure that she did love you, having been married to you for 45 years, but she didn't want to live with the stigma of having a husband who dresses. And even if you had no desire to present female, she would still miss your ability to fix things around the house … which I’m sure hasn't disappeared. You are still able to fix things in your new house? Hopefully you wife will discover youtube, which is a treasure trove for learning how to do general household repairs.

Teresa

11-20-2020, 07:15 PM

There are points I would like to reply to but I must stick to the rules of this section and just thank you all for your thoughts from your personal situation .

GwenHerself

11-24-2020, 01:02 PM

Hello,

I have a few more questions I want to pose. Thank you again for the responses I have received in the past!

1. Does seeing CDs referred to as "ladies" or "girls" bother you in any way?

2. Do you have any CD related pet peeves you would feel comfortable sharing?

3. Do you see crossdressing as a form of parody, or, on the opposite side, do you see it as a form of admiration? Perhaps it's situational?

Thanks again!

char GG

11-24-2020, 01:59 PM

1. It doesn't bother me. I don't really care to be called "girlfriends" when I'm with my husband of 40+ years. I don't mind it if other people think that but personally, he will never be my "girlfriend". I have girlfriends and I have a husband.

2. Listening to CDers put on a falsetto voice that obviously sounds fake.

3. Personally, I don't see CDing as anything other than what the CDer wants it to be. I have no control over what CDers want to think.

11-24-2020, 02:48 PM

1) no bother

2) nothing comes to mind in my relationship but Sherlyn ...that just was who she was.
others we met and wanted to help them go out for the first time...many no shows, chickened out ...we tryed helping other CDs but gave up on that...waste of our time . So that probably happens with those in the closet the nerves kick in.

3) not in my relationship it was who she was.

Dutchess

11-24-2020, 08:02 PM

1. No I dont care .

2. I don't care for the fake voices either , you are better off just using the one you have . Sometimes those false voices even scare me a little .
High drama , I do not like alot of drama with anyone and I see alot of Cd's engage in it and makes me wonder if they are prone to drama no matter how they present , its not cool .
Thinking they pass better , or are more woman than cis women or that we are somehow jealous of them.

3.It depends on the person . I dont see it as admiration though . My ex husband was a fetish dresser , my beloved Kat didnt like himself . Two totally different things . That was only in my world though , not applicable to everyone .

ReineD

11-25-2020, 04:03 PM

1. Does seeing CDs referred to as "ladies" or "girls" bother you in any way?

Not at all.

2. Do you have any CD related pet peeves

Not from my SO, but a few from others. I've seen crossdressers use mannerisms when dressed. It looks fake and mannerisms are by default exaggerated - GGs don't walk, talk, or act like that. Along the same vein, falsetto voices bother me because they're so fake. There's a way to soften the voice by speaking in subdued tones without needing to raise the pitch a few octaves. It also bothers me when crossdressers think they know GGs better than the GGs themselves. For example, members who say that GGs are jealous or envious, or they feel threatened by a crossdresser who is younger, slimmer, or has nicer clothes. These crossdressers must believe that GGs are inherently catty, and I find this insulting. None of the wives and girlfriends that I've met either here or in real life have been jealous or have felt threatened by crossdressers. There's nothing to be jealous of! :)

3. Do you see crossdressing as a form of parody, or, on the opposite side, do you see it as a form of admiration?

I don't see it as a parody or as a form of admiration per se. I see it as a crossdresser's wish to feel good by appearing feminine, no matter to what degree: with just some articles of clothing, or full dress, with or without makeup, or forms, padding, etc. Each crossdresser has his own thing that makes him feel good, even when it starts out just with lingerie and the crossdressing levels increase over time.

GwenHerself

11-27-2020, 12:49 PM

confused_cathreen

11-27-2020, 01:12 PM

1. Do you feel like crossdressing gives your SO better insight into female issues and struggles, or do you think it's more surface level fun?
Not at all, didn't make him more capable at emotional labour or insightful in any way. Definitely only surface stuff.

2. I know you ladies are all very supportive, but is it a turn off for you when your SO dresses?
I wasn't supportive so not with him any more. It was a turn-off, yes.

3. What do you enjoy most about your SO's crossdressing?
N/A
4. What do you enjoy least about your SO's crossdressing?
The lies and the hiding. The fact that I am very visually motivated didn't help his cause.

- - - Updated - - -

Hello,

I have a few more questions I want to pose. Thank you again for the responses I have received in the past!

1. Does seeing CDs referred to as "ladies" or "girls" bother you in any way?
Nah, I don't care. Who am I to say what people want to call themselves and/or eachother?

2. Do you have any CD related pet peeves you would feel comfortable sharing?
The whole thing, lol!

3. Do you see crossdressing as a form of parody, or, on the opposite side, do you see it as a form of admiration? Perhaps it's situational?
Neither. I think it's fantasy land, mostly, and picking the bits that each considers green grass territory. The life of a GG is so vastly different that it might as well be in another planet.

- - - Updated - - -

1. Weird question - Something I have noticed in myself is that I feel pretty when I dress. That's a feeling I have never experienced as a man. Do you as a GG feel inherently pretty or attractive, or does it rely on other factors, or do you never really feel that way?
Inherenty pretty or attractive, or inherently ugly and unattractive. Depends on the day. Absolutely nothing to do with clothes. Self-esteem is vital, I have felt sexy in old joggers and unsexy in dresses. Can't stress enough that it has absolutely nothing to do with clothes.

2. I know you're not lesbians, but do you ever look at your SO in dress or other CDer and think they look attractive the way they present themselves?
Ehm, no. As I said in my previous answer, I am visually motivated. By the male form. If I was even remotely attracted to the female, I would be bi. But I am not.

3. Is it embarressing to be with your SO in public when they are dressed?
Never done that so I can't answer.

Phew, that's what I get for not checking the forum more often!

GwenHerself

11-27-2020, 01:37 PM

Thanks for taking the time to respond, Cathreen! I really appreciate your perspective. You said you weren't supportive of your SO's dressing, but you're a part of this community. I think that's very cool of you. Your experience might not have been a good one, what with the lying and secrets of your SO, but your presence here makes me feel like you're more supportive than you might give yourself credit for.

Thanks again!

char GG

11-27-2020, 02:34 PM

Hi Gwen,

Answers to your most recent questions:

1. Weird question - Something I have noticed in myself is that I feel pretty when I dress. That's a feeling I have never experienced as a man. Do you as a GG feel inherently pretty or attractive, or does it rely on other factors, or do you never really feel that way?

I have pretty dresses. That doesn't necessarily mean that I "feel" pretty in a dress. There are so many factors such as: am I excited about the venue that I'm going to - I don't necessarily feel pretty going to a baby shower but maybe I feel pretty for a night out dancing. Also, do I feel "fat" in the dress? does my hair behave? are my clothes fitting right? stuff like that. Any old dress does not make me feel pretty.

2. I know you're not lesbians, but do you ever look at your SO in dress or other CDer and think they look attractive the way they present themselves?

My SO presents himself very nicely, is well put together, and classy. If that's how he wants to go out in public, that's fine, he is free to do that and I don't mind. However, I am not personally "attracted" to his image dressed as a woman. When he goes out, it's about him, not me.

3. Is it embarressing to be with your SO in public when they are dressed?

I am not embarrassed. He likes his picture taken and if I'm with him, I am the photographer. I don't mind, but sometimes enough is enough. He is very considerate though and cuts off the photo sessions if he thinks that I'm getting bored.

11-27-2020, 05:08 PM

I just feel like me and I am a confident woman . Clothing has nothing to do with me feeling pretty.....but like Char said I might be excited about an event or an outfit but I still feel like myself.

Well I met Sherlyn as Sher and Di .....did not meet the guy side for months when I came up for a week.....we lived in different countries and met half way and spent our first few months dating on the weekends as two women. So ours is a different beginning as most couples. I did not think in terms as lesbian just two people in love .

No not embarrassing just our life together....just natural.

ReineD

11-27-2020, 05:35 PM

Do you as a GG feel inherently pretty or attractive [when nicely dressed], or does it rely on other factors, or do you never really feel that way?

Feeling attractive has more to do with who else is in the room (i.e. men :)) than the clothes. It's impossible for me to feel pretty if I'm either alone or in a room with only women and I'm not sensing that tension (for lack of a better word) that exists between a male and female who find one another attractive.

So no. Nothing to do with clothes. Or makeup. Or jewelry.

do you ever look at your SO in dress or other CDer and think they look attractive the way they present themselves?

Some outfits look better on my SO than others, but I am not attracted to him while he is dressed in the same way that I am not attracted to a female even if she is extraordinarily beautiful and is dressed exquisitely. Also, I do think that my SO looks better as a male, but that's just because of my personal preference. I know that many crossdressers here believe they look better as females.

And last, there is a difference between being attracted to someone, and having an aesthetic appreciation for something beautiful. I can think that a painting, a piece of furniture, a particular landscape, a woven rug, a designer desert, etc, is beautiful. I can think that a certain fabric is exquisite, or the cut of an item of clothing is particularly well made. And I can think that a certain item of clothing is well suited to the physical form of the body that wears it (some clothes are ill-fitting, and others are not). But being able to discern between something that is well done or well made and something that is not, is different than feeling an attraction to the person who wears that thing.

Is it embarressing to be with your SO in public when they are dressed?

Only if we see someone we know. I don't relish the thought of being fodder for gossip and we do not want the knowledge of my SO's crossdressing to somehow get back to family members. I do notice some strangers stare or do a double-take occasionally (when they read my SO), and it doesn't bother me in the least as long as we don't know them.

Dutchess

11-27-2020, 08:04 PM

My answers are going to be sort of a mashup of the ones above me today where it applies .
NO question is weird ,, you don't learn if you don't ask I have been made aware that quite a few folks read these so if we help anyone then all the better .

1. Weird question - Something I have noticed in myself is that I feel pretty when I dress. That's a feeling I have never experienced as a man. Do you as a GG feel inherently pretty or attractive, or does it rely on other factors, or do you never really feel that way?

No I do not feel inherently pretty , I actually dont see myself as attractive at all and I have to fight with that . I like well fitting quality clothing but clothes dont do that for me . I have had men make me feel VERY pretty in their actions and words towards me whether they were my SO or not .
Very recently I saw a cd'er here on the forum state that we ( cis women ) walked around in a state of arousal all day long due to hormones or clothes or both I cant remember but NO . I was pretty shocked and insulted that any male born person would think this . That is absolutely not true whatsoever .

2. I know you're not lesbians, but do you ever look at your SO in dress or other CDer and think they look attractive the way they present themselves?

Straight out of the gate - I prefer very androgynous males that have alot of hair , wear a little make up , nail polish on short nails , at LEAST pierced ears and some ink somewhere . Thats just how its always been for me since the mid 70s . Period , I dont understand the people who think piercing ears /growing hair is salacious and wild , I lived a different life . SO I start there - beyond that no , Kat was a beautiful androgynous male ,he looked better in androgynous clothing. But love is a funny thing and I loved him no matter what he wore , that was my Kat , with pink roses in his hair or in a t shirt and jeans ( usually mine ). I knew about Kat from the start so I knew what he looked like however he always dressed to blend , always. I am not attracted to fetish dressers ( except my curiosity with Docs picto-stories) 50-60s dressers ,sexual dressers . At all .

3. Is it embarressing to be with your SO in public when they are dressed?
Oh no like I said I adored my Kat and s/he , me . We would have major PDA's everywhere all the time . LOL He always started them so I could see he was VERY confident and wanted people to see us together , that actually DID make me feel pretty and loved too . It was my pleasure , not an embarrassment . One day he had on a gypsy skirt , cami and those rose bud clips in his hair ( he had just massive carpet hair down to his waist ) and he started kissing me at a crosswalk in the day and people were honking and clapping and we were both just laughing and really happy .

Ah well ,, back to my regularly scheduled life :/

-lovestruck-

11-27-2020, 11:55 PM

As always, thank you so much for the responses.

1. Weird question - Something I have noticed in myself is that I feel pretty when I dress. That's a feeling I have never experienced as a man. Do you as a GG feel inherently pretty or attractive, or does it rely on other factors, or do you never really feel that way?

2. I know you're not lesbians, but do you ever look at your SO in dress or other CDer and think they look attractive the way they present themselves?

3. Is it embarressing to be with your SO in public when they are dressed?

1. That's not a weird question in my opinion :) Speaking for myself, it feels good to get dolled up sometimes. Feminine styles catch my eyes and I get this desire to wear them. It's a personal preference.

2. It depends on the person. I could be attracted to a CDer, but I won't be attracted to one *just* because they are a CDer. I acknowledge that CDing may be an important part of one's identity but, ultimately, I tend to be attracted to an individual as a whole and who they are as a full person - CDing just happens to be an aspect of them.

GwenHerself

12-03-2020, 12:13 PM

Holiday themed questions as I am feeling the spirit of the season!

1. Do you/have you bought gifts for your SO's CD/TG side?

2. Do you/have you celebrated holidays with you SO while they were dressed?

3. Would you trust your SO to buy you an outfit as a gift?

4. Would you/have you posed for holiday pictures with your SO while they were dressed?

5. Would you/have you attended a holiday party with your SO while they were dressed?

12-03-2020, 01:07 PM

1. Do you/have you bought gifts for your SO's CD/TG side?
Yes always/ guy gifts really did not excite her

2. Do you/have you celebrated holidays with you SO while they were dressed?
Yes always

3. Would you trust your SO to buy you an outfit as a gift?
Absolutely

4. Would you/have you posed for holiday pictures with your SO while they were dressed?
Yes and I am sure there are a ton on site here

5. Would you/have you attended a holiday party with your SO while they were dressed?
5)
Sher worked in guy mode and the guys had a Xmas lunch with just the guys no party . All free time was Sher time and holiday parties

char GG

12-03-2020, 05:55 PM

1. Do you/have you bought gifts for your SO's CD/TG side?

Yes, If I see something I think he will like. We don't exchange holiday gifts though.

2. Do you/have you celebrated holidays with you SO while they were dressed?

My SO only dresses to go out. So typically it's Halloween.

3. Would you trust your SO to buy you an outfit as a gift?

Yes, but he has never done it.

4. Would you/have you posed for holiday pictures with your SO while they were dressed?

Halloween pictures. However, he doesn't want people to know who he is so the pictures are for us only. He doesn't post pictures with me in them.

5. Would you/have you attended a holiday party with your SO while they were dressed?

Halloween only.

Dutchess

12-03-2020, 07:30 PM

1. Do you/have you bought gifts for your SO's CD/TG side?
Yes and I still do ! Even though Kat is no longer on this plane I make sure I decorate where s/he rests with her favorite roses on Birthday and Valentines . Christmas , Easter all our special days. In this life Kat could not wait to get gifts on birthdays , Valentines and Christmas , Anniversaries , you name it . It was a total joy for me to do it . Flowers , jewelry , glass peacocks , all kinds of things ,

2. Do you/have you celebrated holidays with you SO while they were dressed?
Absolutely .

3. Would you trust your SO to buy you an outfit as a gift?
I wore one to the Dr yesterday - who wouldnt want Chanel cashmere ....

4. Would you/have you posed for holiday pictures with your SO while they were dressed?
Yes I have ! At Christmas and Thanksgiving and other holidays too .

5. Would you/have you attended a holiday party with your SO while they were dressed?
Of course .

GwenHerself

12-16-2020, 10:32 AM

1. How did you first get involved with this site, and what made you want to be a mod or admin (if you are)?

2. Would you still want to be a part of this community if your SO decided he was done with crossdressing?

3. Do you have any dealbreakers related to this side of your SO?

4. If your SO wanted to marry/remarry you, but wanted to wear a wedding dress, would you be game?

char GG

12-16-2020, 10:57 AM

1. How did you first get involved with this site, and what made you want to be a mod or admin (if you are)?

My hubby started CDing late in life. He joined a Date a Crossdresser site but that was not what he was looking for. Then he found this one. I joined because I knew literally nothing about CDing. Part 2: I was asked; it's an interesting volunteer job.

2. Would you still want to be a part of this community if your SO decided he was done with crossdressing?

Most likely, I think there are a lot of things that CDers question and if I can, in some small way be helpful, I would continue.

3. Do you have any dealbreakers related to this side of your SO?

Yes - permanent modifications.
(Edit: Also - same as Di's answer - no lies or omissions.)

4. If your SO wanted to marry/remarry you, but wanted to wear a wedding dress, would you be game?

I would be ok with two weddings: a traditional one and one where he could also wear a dress.

12-16-2020, 11:32 AM

1) I first joined because a good friend confided in me about being a cd. I had no idea what that meant :) he often would comment on my makeup and clothing...especially makeup....I had no idea just thought he liked makeup.....he was married and I scolded him when he said his wife did not know and he told me. I felt telling a coworker and not the wife was WRONG so I found this place to find answers on how to tell his wife. THEN I met Sherlyn here.....talked online for along time ...met and sparks flew. Sher was a mod here and they asked me to help so all these years later here I am.

2) In Sher it was who she was so was not going to be done.
And after she passed I am still here. I especially like talking to the new GGs in FAB

3) My deal breaker is always the same even with my children no lies, no lies by admission.

4) We married at niagara Falls Chapel one was with Shers daughters ( as they did not want to see ) the next day we both wore wedding dresses and did it again....we played music that meant something to us ...it was beautiful and the chapel was very helpful in making it our day . I Am sure there are pictures on here from then.

Dana3

12-16-2020, 05:21 PM

Question

What advice or suggestions would you give to such a significant other (A GG) in managing and coping with a husband or boyfriend?

What advice or suggestions would you give to their SO (Boyfriend ~ Husband)?

Not so much acceptance? Nor tolerance? Not just a DADT. But, reaching a mutually acceptable agreement, but based upon RESPECT for one another, communication, and putting the needs of one another?

Thank you for your tine and response.

12-16-2020, 06:00 PM

Dana,
Advice to a GG
Love each other take this journey together, mutual respect and about you both.
If it a GG that was kept in the dark
Figure out what is acceptable to you, make limits you can Live with , talk , read and be open and truthful in everything. It usually is a part of them and not going away( maybe temp it can but thats it) keep in the loop , Say to them no more lies or hiding =deal breaker. And realize it is the same person you love you just know both sides of them, it does not have to be the end of your world as you both can make it work,AND they did not keep it from you to hurt you but because they were afraid.

Advice to a CD that was not forthcoming - Please no drip drip drip of little things and thinking your clues add up to you being a CD, NO hiding anymore, TALK, LISTEN, give them time ....might be years ...it took you years to figure this out yourself , talk and be open in your relationship , make it about both of you . Be honest with yourself and stop with the shame. This is 2020 not back in the day with no resources to see this is fairly common and does not have to be a big deal.
Make sure she knows how much you love her!
For the CD that was open from the beginning. You told be becoming committed , grow together Make it about both of you, it can make for a strong intimate relationship .Just love each other.

char GG

12-16-2020, 07:17 PM

Dana,

Your question really isn't easy to answer because there are so many variables. One idea that I can think of is: At what point did the CD tell the SO about their CDing? When the SO was told, was everything laid out or was part of it kept secret? For instance; did the CD tell their SO they just wanted to wear ladies underwear when they really wanted to go out dressed as a woman and/or transition? Did the SO go along with the CDing but have unresolved reservations?

Assuming everyone was truthful and forthcoming in the beginning, and both parties still wanted to continue the relationship, it should be maintained that it can't be all about one or the other person. Such as; the CD shouldn't spend 100% of the spare time CDed if the wife wants "her man" sometimes. There has to be a mutually understood balance or one party becomes the doormat and the other gets their way all of the time (this goes both ways). Love, respect, truthfulness, with no omissions has to be maintained. It's not just about CDing but all aspects of the relationship.

Of course, I'm speaking of extremes here because I can't really give you a generic (one size fits all) answer.

ReineD

12-18-2020, 11:31 AM

Dana3:

To the GG:
I know how easy it is to become obsessed with the crossdressing as you try to figure out how far it will go, what your husband’s priorities have become, if you are still his priority, if he is subconsciously attracted to men, etc. But, don’t make the crossdressing your priority or your responsibility. It’s your husband’s thing, not yours. Take things as they are, i.e. don’t project into the future, don’t try to find hints of your husband’s crossdressing activities online, etc. If your husband tells you that he still loves you, that he does not want to be a woman, and that he is not attracted to men, believe him. Try to negotiate an acceptable compromise in terms of who should find out and how often your husband should dress. Chances are you and your husband wont be too far apart on this. If you cannot take seeing him dressed in women’s clothing, try to negotiate times when your husband can dress when you will not be involved … because it will not go away and the last thing you want is for your husband to dress behind your back. This drives wedges in relationships that can only get worse.

To the CD:
No more lies or omissions. Determine what is your ideal crossdressing scenario and share this with your wife, even if you are not there yet. Do you want to pierce your ears? Do you want to body shave? Do you want to grow your fingernails? Do you want to perfect your femme appearance in order to go out in public and not stand out too much? Negotiate boundaries with your wife. This means negotiate. You each will give and take a little. And do not drip out your crossdressing wishes bit by bit, for example telling your wife you only want to wear panties, and in a few months a skirt, and a few months after that makeup, when in fact it is your secret desire to do all it takes to present a complete femme appearance. This will make it difficult for your wife to believe you when you say that you don’t want to be a woman. And give your wife lots of time to realize that the crossdressing does not change your feelings for her and that your wife is still your priority. You have had a lifetime of knowing this about yourself and having come to accept it. Your wife also needs lots and LOTS of time.

Bea_

12-24-2020, 08:49 PM

I am a late starter at crossdressing, starting in my mid-fifties and lasting the last ten years so far... My experience has been that there's an inverse relationship between how 'sexy' I feel and how sexy my wife sees me to be. I don't have any dysphoria and enjoy being the male in the relationship, but i also find that I feel totally sexy in things that are usually restricted to women. My wife will very occasionally respond to a particular item, but it's very much the exception. I'm just curious if there is anything that the crossdressing SO wears that the GG's on this site see as sexy?

char GG

12-24-2020, 09:55 PM

Bea,

I'm sure that every women whose SO CD's sees things differently. Sexy is an individual preference that occurs in the eye of the beholder. Some women may find their CDing SO sexy when dressed as a woman.

Personally I think my SO has good taste in women's clothes and wears them well but not "sexy" (to me). I'm not attracted to the female form. I find my husband "sexy" when he's dressed as a man. Particularly when wearing a beautifully tailored suit (tie not required) - with the hint of a beard stubble.

Dutchess

12-25-2020, 10:31 AM

Hi Bea ,
I will say first what Char did in that I am sure there are some ladies who will see things different from me, I am also not attracted to women .

I think this has some to do with how male folk see things too . I prefer androgynous/ sort of femme males but its not the clothes for me . Its THEM - , like I already know at a base level that I have to have things that alot of people here find very scandalous and racy - long natural hair , wears makeup in public regardless , nail polish and probably a good bit of ink like me - everyday , out in public ,unafraid <<< that confidence/fearlessness is VERY sexy .. Pierced ears are basic . Clothing is secondary .

My TG companion was totally out , but the sexiest thing for me about him was the patent s/he held in the winery business and that s/he had sailed around the world on his own .

12-25-2020, 11:16 AM

To Echo what Dutchess said it is not the clothes IT IS THEM.....that’s how I felt too.
Did not care what Sher had on ....guy clothing, female clothing or nothing at all.
So sexy for me has nothing to do with material things but the connection mentally and emotionally.
She felt sexy in female clothing and that was important but it was the person not anything material for me.

Bea_

12-26-2020, 07:31 AM

Char, Dutchess, Di,

Thanks for your feedback. It is very nice that the three of you are generous with your thoughtful, truthful and diplomatic opinions on such a wide variety of the subjects covered here on the forum. It is appreciated.

I'm thinking my question gave an inaccurate image of the thought behind it, so, I feel inclined to clarify the motivations behind it. I got up yesterday (Christmas) morning and put on some nice textured leggings with a really nice , fitted, rust colored, mock turtleneck top and added a set of faux pearls. That's how I spent my morning for the couple of hours before my wife began stirring and the first hour or so after she woke. I had to quickly change when my son facetimed me with the grandkids.

I didn't feel feminine. I looked in the mirror and saw this bearded, long gray haired, androgynous looking guy and think that I look good... even sexy. But, I know that, even with the "obviously male" look that the leggings reveal, it doesn't give enough of the "man cues" that most women, including my wife respond to favorably. I don't do forms and I like my male body. We both prefer me with a beard and my long hair pulled back into a ponytail.

Your answers gave the impression that you imagined that sexy for me would be a short, tight skirt with fishnets. I might even enjoy that look (haven't tried it), but it's not the look that I'd expect my wife to find attractive at all. Humorous maybe, but not sexy.

candykowal

12-26-2020, 08:14 PM

Ladies, one question I have for you, will make you go back and reminisce.... back to the days of your youth.
I am hoping you are of the age of Aquarius or before, when all of the girls wore dresses, to school, church, or even play.
I also hope you were an only daughter or did you have older sisters?
My question is....
Did your Mother or older sisters, take the time to talk to you about being ladylike, how to sit in a dress, curtsy when formally introduced, how to be on a train or bus in public, how to keep your manicure presentable, using make-up, how to be careful around boys? Maybe a specific event in your youth you care to share?
Those things a young girls experiences and then asks questions about.
Not to go into my whole history but.....
I ask because my Mom took the time to talk to me how ladies should act whenever I asked her if I could play dress up.
She showed me if I was to play dress up, I needed to regularly take a Calgon bath, clean my teeth, brush my hair, and smell nice.
No playing on my knees on dirty floors, sit up straight, no shouting, no eating, no fidgeting, listen to your elders, and keep clean!
She showed me how to properly wear accessory garments and how to act while wearing a dress.
Mom showed me how she did her make up many times and help me do mine. I had girl attributes from a illness as a baby.

Anyway, I was coddled and pampered as a ill underdeveloped oops! baby and became the daughter my Mom could never have do to her age.
Thanks for your replies in advance!!!

char GG

12-26-2020, 11:10 PM

Hi Candy,
My experience was that I was adopted as a baby by older parents. By the time that I was 10 years old, my parents were well into their 40's. I was the oldest, no sisters, one younger adopted brother who pretty much kept them on their toes more than I did. My mother did not do any of the things your mother did with you other than want me to wear dresses to family functions. Our school required the girls to wear dresses until I was a senior in high school. I rebelled against dresses by the time I was 8 years old when I learned that I couldn't play on the monkey bars or the swings or run around with my cousins on the grandparents farm without my underwear showing. That's when I started wearing shorts under my dresses at school and jeans at home. I also rebelled against wearing "fashion" gloves to go shopping or wearing a hat to church. I was a teen in the 60's and many of the fashion ideas that my mother had were very old fashioned to me. My friends and I experimented with makeup very little when I was in middle school. Most of the things that I learned about being ladylike were from magazines. I've never curtsied (that may be a regional thing because I never saw anyone curtsy to anyone), and never had a professional manicure.

Yard work such as lawn mowing, raking, weeding, shoveling snow were all my responsibility, none of which I would have ever dreamed to do in a dress.

Dutchess

12-27-2020, 01:12 AM

My upbringing was "Southern Gothic " ...
I was born and raised on a ranch in Texas in the fall of 1962 where my family raised Thoroughbred horses ( which I still have ) milo, hay and cotton for generations , my moms side were oilfield financier's - so I faced a life of ALOT of expectations . NOBODY was raised as the opposite of their assigned gender. My mom was a very wild avant garde artist that studied in Paris and had unusual friends ( probably why I have had unusual friends ) She was NOT Traditional at all and was shunned alot . She as well as I, my sisters my cousins - were raised by ladies of color from the day we were born and by black family's in general . SO - I spent alot of my life with my nanny , her family and alot of horses and cattle in jeans, fishing , hunting, horse shows most weekends. Very outdoors, competitive lifestyle . In my teens I was readied to be a 3 time debutante, you could not get out of this and I really did not like this . You all can see how well my debutante years went - most of the proper young men were afraid of me - I was already very different . I do know how to do the Texas dip and none of that means absolutely anything in this life and I dont know why they do it .

Like Char I did not like dresses either. My mom did not care what I wore but my nanny did - she taught me self respect and how to cook and get my own job also. She was pretty strict but was trying to keep us safe through life . I wasn't even allowed to watch Helen Reddy on TV one night sing because she didnt have a bra on !! I did have to wear a hat and gloves to church until the mid 70-s - from the mid 70-s on I copied Stevie Nicks and still do .

I ran away from all that in 1980 & I have had a better life in the EU and now on the west coast , I just wasn't like them . My younger sister lives in SF - NEVER wears /wore dresses of any kind .
I mainly wear high end sheaths today or gypsy chic , I rarely wear pants unless I am on the horse or jogging

12-27-2020, 04:02 AM

Candy,
I never had any of what you were taught but my mother died when I was young .I lied about my age and went to work early and put myself through school when I got older working two jobs plus school. The things I remember my mother teaching me , never to lie, share, think of others especially those that have less, stick up for those being bullied, stick up for yourself, no one is better than you and you are not better than anyone. I used to say my mom did a great job instilling in me things because .....really I had no structure or guidance after she passed and things could have ended up really bad for me and my younger sister.

So none of what you described and do not remember my friends getting that instruction either.I have read here on the forum from cders their mom taught their sisters such things, maybe I am from a different time.

Clothing wise
I do wear skirts and dresses more that pants mostly because I like them and lean towards Gypsy skirts.

candykowal

12-27-2020, 07:34 PM

Oh gosh, very cool stories ladies! ...Thanks for sharing! :rose2:
All your clothing options today seem cute, but comfy.
I reasoned as much (from what I got when I asked my friends I had in high school and college) that most girls back then were a little rebellious because times were a changing.
That rebellious trait maybe a reason you ladies are accepting of the forum context today?
My situation was a bit different as influences were few and far between, television, Mom, and cousins.
I had girls cousins and neighbors I played with, an older cousin Susie attended "Wendy Ward Charm school" through Montgomery Ward department stores and my Mother adored Susie.
I suppose it was why I got the "charm school" advice from Mom. She moved to Hollywood worked at Capital records, and married an actor. She is retired now.
Interesting take on all your stories...wondering if those were ordinary lives most girls lead back in the day, as a whole...is another thing.
I bet if your growing years were different, you wouldn't be a member of this forum today! :idontknow:

ReineD

01-01-2021, 06:33 AM

This was your question:

Did your Mother or older sisters, take the time to talk to you about being ladylike, how to sit in a dress, curtsy when formally introduced, how to be on a train or bus in public, how to keep your manicure presentable, using make-up, how to be careful around boys?

No. Like most kids I strove to be my own self rather than follow my parents’ styles. By the time I was a teenager, girls no longer wore dresses and skirts, unless they went to a school that was behind the times. (sorry Char :)) It was mostly blue jeans. As to how to be careful around boys, my dad was the one who was strict because he knew what boys were like. lol

But then you drew this conclusion after reading that most of us didn’t follow the path of your fantasy:

I bet if your growing years were different, you wouldn't be a member of this forum today!

That’s not true. Fashion choices and/or degree of "femininity" (according to your personal definition of femininity) have absolutely nothing to do with a GG’s acceptance or non-acceptance of crossdressers. Acceptance has more to do with having conservative vs liberal values. I think it’s safe to say that most GGs who were teenagers after the cultural revolution of the 1960s have a fairly tolerant attitude towards LGBTQ. Most of us do have acquaintances and/or friends who are gay or lesbian. There are, however, fewer crossdressers than gay people or rather, most crossdressers are in the closet and so most of us haven’t met any until our husbands/boyfriends came out to us. And even though we may be quite tolerant of alternate sexual preferences and/or identity and we don’t think that members of the LGBTQ community are ill or perverted (as they did prior to the 1960s), most hetero GGs do prefer to be married to men who enjoy being men. That’s what hetero means: attracted to the opposite sex. But, if their relationships are good, there are many wives/girlfriends who learn to live with it. Or they just go with the flow. And so that’s why we are members of this forum - not because our mothers taught us how to be "feminine".

- - - Updated - - -

My experience has been that there's an inverse relationship between how 'sexy' I feel and how sexy my wife sees me to be.

What do you mean by feeling 'sexy'. Do you mean feeling aroused when your wife is not?

I'm just curious if there is anything that the crossdressing SO wears that the GG's on this site see as sexy?

No. I love my SO and I know that he enjoys presenting as a woman, and so I am supportive. But I am much more attracted to him as a man. To clarify, I am hetero, which means that I am attracted to the opposite sex, and so there is nothing about feminine items that I find sexually attractive.

If you find yourself feeling sexy or sexual when you are dressed and your wife does not reciprocate, it could be that you have become sexually incompatible?

Teresa

01-11-2021, 10:46 AM

As I'm now fulltime I'd like to ask this question from a female perspective .

When finally taking the steps it is a learning curve on finding what suits and what doesn't both in style and colour . When I buy something now it's with the thought of when am I likely to wear it . I like to think I have something suitable for most occasions hanging in my wardrobe but there is always a BUT ! Why did I buy that ?

So my question is do you have days when you don't feel right or have the confidence to wear something hanging in your wardrobe ? It maybe too bright or too long or short or of course when you feel you've put a few pounds on so " Does your bumb look big in it ?"

I haven't checked previous questions so I hope I haven't duplicated one .

char GG

01-11-2021, 11:00 AM

I recently retired and no longer need the number of business clothes that I had. I got rid of many black skirts, dresses that were too long, out of style, duplicates, jeans that weren't exactly right, etc. I tend to gravitate toward certain colors. When I try to branch out and buy a color that I don't normally have in my closet, I find that I don't wear that item. Some colors (like gray) seem to make my skin tone gray, so why did I have that many gray clothes? Sometimes I would get caught up in the moment and buy something just because I had to buy something only to realize later that I really didn't like that particular purchase.

It's not that I don't have confidence to wear something, it's usually because I really didn't like the particular item that much in the first place. Going through my closet is something that I usually do every season.

However, I love my sequin dresses. I did take some to a consignment shop but kept my favorites. Someday I will have a place to wear them again.

01-11-2021, 12:13 PM

I have the basic staples that can make numerous outfits ( dressing it up or down) and I also like Char am retired so do not need the same clothing. I kept my favorites but did get rid of a lot .
But like you said I still do the same ..... BUT why did I buy that .....because I sometimes I See things ( online. Since pandemic) that might not be practical but I LOVE it so I buy it because it brings me joy. Yes it might not be worn a lot .....buy hey .....I will find somewhere someday to wear it.
So lol long story short I try to be practical now days but sometimes I just buy whatever I please.
Shopping online turns out to be fun ....who knew .

Teresa

01-11-2021, 04:44 PM

Char,
Lets face it Char sequins bring sparkle to our lives , I love mine . I admit I appear to be stuck on navy blue for everyday , so for me it's gaining confidence with bright colours .

Di,
It's only fun if the size you ordered fits , I know my shape hasn't changed so it must be sized wrong ! ( Well that's my excuse ).

ReineD

02-09-2021, 03:14 AM

So my question is do you have days when you don't feel right or have the confidence to wear something hanging in your wardrobe ? It maybe too bright or too long or short or of course when you feel you've put a few pounds on so " Does your bumb look big in it ?"

I don't buy things that I don't have the confidence to wear, or things that make any part of my body look bad. I really do take a long, critical look in the mirror before I commit to a purchase and I buy things that not only suit my body, but that will go nicely with accessories I already have.

So no, I don't consider if something is too bright or too short, because I wouldn't buy the item if it was. And I do dress according to the situation. Casual clothes for casual outings which is 95% of the time, fancier clothes for fancier outings, and beach-wear for the beach.

During Covid, it's mostly really, really, really comfy clothes at home. lol. Surely during Covid you're only wearing things for walking the dog or doing groceries? I've been remodeling, and on most days lately it's a paint-stained shirt and torn jeans. But it's OK. My SO loves me anyway. :D :D :D

krissy

02-14-2021, 05:07 PM

Hi Ladys i have a question im a big crossdresser i cant seem to find a bra that wont ride up on me .Do you all have this same problem if not how do i solve this.Thanks:o

Miel GG

02-14-2021, 06:24 PM

Big or not big... maybe you picked the wrong size or the wrong model for your shape ? Cheap materials (cheap bras) could be the problem too. And did you try underwired bras also ?

I am confident you will find a well-fitted bras for you if you try one from a brand specialized in big size.

char GG

02-14-2021, 06:41 PM

You didn't say whether or not you were wearing forms with your bra. Maybe the weight of forms would hold it in place. Without some weight in the cups, I can just imagine that it would ride up. You might also try a tighter band size. Or try a sports bra. As Miel says, it may have to do with the material, size, or wrong model.

ellbee

02-16-2021, 12:48 PM

Question Time for all our wonderful & lovely GG's! :wave2:

If your present-day self could somehow travel back in time & say just one thing to your past-self on the day you were (perhaps unexpectedly) "introduced" to the world of crossdressing on a personal firsthand level (i.e., learning that your SO is a CD'er)... What would it be?

Thanks! :)

char GG

02-16-2021, 01:36 PM

I didn't know CDing even existed other than on comedy shows. So, other than being surprised that he even started at his late age, and wanted to continue...., I was kind of speechless.

Miel GG

02-16-2021, 01:47 PM

It's a difficult one ! As the Talk is still recent in my life, I think it could be ' Don't panic, you are not alone, you will find a lot of support from other GGs facing the same difficulties'. Being a member of the FAB forum is priceless :)

Dutchess

02-16-2021, 06:15 PM

I came from a very open minded family . 2 cousins are 40+ year drag queens ,plus other extremely colorful characters in my wild way out there family so this was not new to me . I like androgynous men very well but this was different and it did throw me and I went in a direction I shoudn't have gone .

I think I would've told myself not to indulge. I tell new GG's that now every time . By that I mean don't pity , coddle ,over protect , shield , act like they are sick or have a medical condition . I would have told my self to carry on as normal and if he cannot keep up in everyday life - stay at work , keep life moving at its basic level , then that was HIS problem not mine . I am not a bad person if I cannot hang with all that .
I made it MY problem to overcome when it really was not .
He knew this and really took advantage of the situation and as so many here saw it just really deteriorated , sometimes I think if Id just stayed me and went on with life that things would have been different , I dont know .

ReineD

03-01-2021, 04:39 PM

i cant seem to find a bra that wont ride up on me .Do you all have this same problem

No, I don't have this problem. It sounds as if your bra straps are too short. You need to adjust them.

If your present-day self could somehow travel back in time & say just one thing to your past-self on the day you were (perhaps unexpectedly) "introduced" to the world of crossdressing on a personal firsthand level (i.e., learning that your SO is a CD'er)... What would it be?

My reaction would be exactly the same as it was all those years ago, which was that I loved him and was prepared to support him in all his endeavors.

Bea_

03-02-2021, 12:24 PM

My question is about the FAB forum. My wife is supportive even though she doesn't understand my inclinations any more than I do. I'm considering suggesting that she visit the FAB forum but wonder how often that might work against the CD'er rather than for him. I'm not wanting specifics but rather an honest view of how conversations go there. I could see that certain individual SO's could be triggered rather than helped by visiting. Is that common? Any input would be appreciated.

char GG

03-02-2021, 01:39 PM

Since I've been a member here, the FAB forum has been a wonderful source for GG's to ask questions that they often don't feel comfortable asking on the main forum. Most of us are supportive SO's to a CDer/trans, others are trying to learn more about an SO that has recently revealed CDing to his GG wife/friend. No one really tells anyone else what they should think but share information so that a GG can make her own decisions. For many GG's, it's the only place they can talk about their CDer SO. Your wife would have to join the main forum, get 10 posts, read the rules for/ then apply for the FAB.

ReineD

03-03-2021, 05:14 PM

I'm considering suggesting that she visit the FAB forum but wonder how often that might work against the CD'er rather than for him.

If your wife needs help coping with the crossdressing, I should think you would rather she join FAB as a support for herself rather than as a way to support you?

That said, the GGs who join this forum generally do so because they want to stay in the marriage and understand the crossdressing ... which is a challenge, because not many crossdressers seem to understand it themselves.

03-05-2021, 06:36 AM

We have a lot of wives that join after the shock of finding out, come in FAB ,vent, scream, have a safe place to talk . Many times after things calm down and they work things out they are not on here as much but pop in to tell us hello and many times tell us we saved their marriage ect
The rest of us just talk, hang out and in our life our partner being TS or TG is just our life and not a big deal.
Many of us that have been here a long time, stay here to help especially the new GGs just finding out.
She is welcome if she is interested, we respect each other and have a safe place to talk with others that understand our life.

Add after reading the answers of some CDs not wanting their wife to be a member.
I guess if you want to keep it separate and closeted and secret thing you do . But if you want it open and part of your day to day life it would be a different story .

Lydianne

03-13-2021, 02:37 AM

Hi! 👋.

This is a question about safety.

So the safety of women outdoors is under the microscope today [ March 13 ] in Britain. I'm not sure whether I can post exactly why in this section, but if you google "women safety Britain", it would be impossible not to find out why. It is horrific. It raises (more) trust issues.

So there is going to be a series of events, demonstrations & vigils nationwide in Britain today,.. but there are also coronavirus restrictions in place regarding in-person gatherings. For some women, the conviction to attend something in person is so strong that they are going to do so anyway.

( I find myself incapable of being critical of that position because when I consider the question of which is more dangerous: the virus or the streets?.. For some women, it could conceivably be the streets. I just hope that those attending in person take steps to protect themselves and each other from the virus. )

The police have stated their position that they will disperse all gatherings, in accordance with virus procedures.

Now, the flashpoint incident took place in London. In Edinburgh ( some 400-or-so miles away at the other end of Britain ), a female official found herself in the unenviable position of having to discourage Edinburgh women from attending events in person and to participate online instead, but to draw attention to her conflict, she said the following:

"I'm 67 years old. For 50 years as a woman, I have lived a life that aims to protect and keep myself safe in a way that no man of my age ever has to do."

So what I'm asking of you is:

1. Which of the steps do each of you take with the hope of improving your safety outdoors in your area? Have they changed over the years, or with the times, or with where you've lived, or through different phases of your life, etc?

2. Do you have any immediate thoughts about the conflict between showing solidarity by gathering in-person and the discouragement from the authorities because of virus procedures?

3. And considering that a lot more of life has been forced online nowadays, which steps do you take to improve your online safety?

Many thanks in advance.

- L.

char GG

03-13-2021, 06:38 AM

I know which story that you are referring to. It's very sad that things like that occur in our world.

1. Which of the steps do each of you take with the hope of improving your safety outdoors in your area? Have they changed over the years, or with the times, or with where you've lived, or through different phases of your life, etc?

We have many beautiful nature areas, bike paths, beaches, walking trails in our area. I typically walk with a friend in those areas. If no one is available, I walk on the public sidewalk that borders a busy street. I walk fast, with purpose, and stay vigilant of my surroundings. I don't walk any of the deserted beaches. In the past, I had to leave before work before daylight, I would make sure to park my car facing the back of my house so that the lights would illuminate the dark, back area.We have motion detector lighting back there but there are some darker spots. I only took public highways to work rather than the more scenic back roads. I only go shopping in daylight hours which I can do now that I'm retired. If alone, I park in spots closed to the building that I am going into. There are parts of towns that I never go to alone or even with someone. I make sure my car tires are inflated correctly, and the routine maintenance is done to avoid unnecessary breakdowns. I avoid parking lots that have large (baseball size) landscape stones. I had an incident in the past, where kids were tossing those stones in a parking lot. I had one child in a stroller and one child holding my hand. That was very scary as it was before cell phones. The only option was to turn around, go back the mall so they could call the authorities.

EDIT: I'm going to add driving. Be aware of who is following you. If someone appears to be following you, don't go home. Go to a public place or police station and make sure the driver leaves the area before you proceed home.

Adding one more thing: Prior to Covid, I worked at a concert venue. We usually had a shuttle take us to our cars, however, one night I had to stay late and was approached by a man asking for money after I exited the building. I was very angry about having to stay late anyway so when he asked, I want crazy on him, yelling, waving my hands in the air, I think he thought I was the crazy one and left.

2. Do you have any immediate thoughts about the conflict between showing solidarity by gathering in-person and the discouragement from the authorities because of virus procedures?

The only group I gather with is my walking group of approximately 12 ladies and we wear masks. I do not gather for solidarity groups.

3. And considering that a lot more of life has been forced online nowadays, which steps do you take to improve your online safety?

I am only on minimal sights and log off after each use. CD.com. FB, and e-mail are the only sites that I would consider "chat" type forums. My FB friends are people that I actually know in person. I keep many of my personal views to myself. Otherwise, I read news sites. My hubby keeps a virus protector on our computers.

Just a side note: I am horrified when I read about members on this site that CD and then walk in deserted areas.

ReineD

03-15-2021, 01:10 PM

I feel safe going about my day-to-day business - work, errands, pre-Covid gatherings, concerts and other social life, etc, as long as there are other people around. I need to add that my ethnicity does not add to my endangerment. We all know that hate crimes against minorities have been on the rise. Still, it is not nor has it ever been safe for any woman to wander alone late at night in dark, unpopulated places, unless of course she is well able to defend herself. I dare say it is not safe for men either; they can also be assaulted by someone with a weapon or a gang.

I adhere to Covid restrictions, regardless of the merits of social causes. If I want to help, I can donate funds to appropriate organizations that fight against the particular injustice for the time being. I am confident that Covid restrictions will be lifted this year once most people are vaccinated and so it will be possible to once again participate in any protests afterwards.

As to online safety, I don't disclose personal and/or identifying information online. Ever. I am familiar with and follow proper security measures recommended by the websites that I do participate in. I use strong passwords and two-factor authentication when possible. I don't click on links or open attachments in spam emails and I clear out my browsers every day or so. These measures protect against identity theft. I am not concerned about someone stalking me.

candykowal

03-15-2021, 01:32 PM

We have been having gang members from the inner city come out to the suburbs to car jack and accost victims of opportunity.
I never venture into questionable areas but sometime our Chi Chapter meetings run past 10pm on Saturdays, so I get concerned.
I also install a delay ignition kill switch in my convertible just in case.
I made the circuit myself and if I touch a place on the dash, a timer starts and shuts the car down in 50 seconds, plenty of time to run away.
Be careful to all the ladies out there. As police get more scarce, it will be your issue to defend yourself!

03-15-2021, 03:17 PM

1. Which of the steps do each of you take with the hope of improving your safety outdoors in your area? Have they changed over the years, or with the times, or with where you've lived, or through different phases of your life, etc?

2. Do you have any immediate thoughts about the conflict between showing solidarity by gathering in-person and the discouragement from the authorities because of virus procedures?

3. And considering that a lot more of life has been forced online nowadays, which steps do you take to improve your online safety?

Answers

1) I will start out with how things have changed . I was a teen when my mom passed and got a job. I was very naive but quickly learned , had older men following me . I walked different ways back and forth to school and work. Told someone when leaving my route and time leaving.involved the police to make it stop.
Skip ahead to when I had a car and onward always be aware , walking to your car have keys in hand , lock doors , be aware who is following you when driving.
And most important if you have a funny feeling do not dismiss it trust your gut feelings .
Try not to walk in the dark by yourself, wear shoes you can run in, do not wear headphones. Be aware of your surroundings at all times. Stopping to get gas get it at the pump. I sound Paranoid but trust me I am not.

2) I would do support online but not go out. I have had many covid deaths ( 5) of people I know and I personally would not at this time . I would find another way to support .

3) Strong passwords, change them , never accept as a friend someone I do not know on fb and never ever give personal info out.

Dutchess

03-15-2021, 04:36 PM

Besides working at the track I have been in adult entertainment since I was 18 and I still do so today.
As a result my safety measures are on another level too intense really to list all here and I have not called the police since 1989 and I doubt will ever again so the cops being available isn't a worry of mine .

I never go out at night anymore period , if something ends at night and I am out ( RARELY I just dont like going out at night much less alone ) I go to the car with someone . If anyone at anytime tries to speak to me in a parking lot or anywhere I am alone during daylight or dark , I pretend I don't hear them and keep moving . NO eye contact ever. Just none . When I was younger most of us had an escort to our cars or the bus by a bouncer or guard . My house is locked , my friends at the barn where my horses are text me or otherwise check on me every single day . I don't care of I have been for a jog around the neighborhood ,I always carry my keys with me in my hand and when I get home I totally check all the windows and doors in my house , I admit I even do the closets too . I NEVER get into my car without checking in the backseat either .

With the covid thing I am medically fragile at the moment so going out in a crowd is the last thing I am going to do . I have been an active marcher/protester since 1982 but am not able to anymore. One of my sons is an RN in a covid unit and I wont make it if I catch it . I have had several friends die from it also - I take it seriously . I am still able to help in other ways .

Online I am not always on FB but I change passwords, never accept friend request from anyone I don't know . Never chat online with strangers ever anywhere . I just dont deal in situations where Id have to give out any info period , . FB is mainly used now for pictures and progress goals I make regarding my health issues . It always gives me a headache when I see people meeting strangers online esp for clandestine meet ups , that is just so dangerous .

confused_cathreen

03-15-2021, 05:46 PM

Lydianne with the interesting questions! Hi there 😀

This case is tragic, I guess in time we will hear what happened to this poor girl. Although it was only 9:30 and she walked on a busy road, my first thought when I read about her disappearance was, why did she think it was a good idea to walk 50 mins in the night? Don't misunderstand me, not blaming her in any way, she should be able to walk the streets at 1 am with the same confidence she walked them at 1 pm. But the reality is that we don't. We learn early on the do's and don'ts and teach the younger generation the same thing. It's not only girls but boys too. There were more murders of boys than girls on the streets of London. But as women we have the added danger of a potential sexual assault.
And in the UK, we can't even carry a pepper spray with us.

So we do all the things the ladies above mentioned. And then some. It is a constant awareness of potential threats. We never relax. You walk your dog at night only if your dog is a dangerous looking dog that noone would dare mess with. You make sure to memorise the bus schedule if you need to take public transport. Always walk with purpose and swiftly. You don't take shortcuts off busy roads. You are always aware of who is walking behind you or dark house entrances that might be coming up on your route. It's million little things. And the tragedy is that no matter how tight legislation becomes, the streets will never be completely safe. And if you can't even trust the police, who can you trust? It sucks beyond belief.

Thank you for asking that question Lydianne. Another reason why I laugh when I read men wishing they could be a woman for a week so that they could wear the dress. The dress and the heels are the last thing you want to be wearing if you get dragged in a dark alley by three blokes. Jeans and steel toed boots are the right outfit for walking in the night, and that's the truth.

DianeT

03-17-2021, 07:06 AM

Hi ladies, we frequently refer to you as GGs on these boards, however I would question the use of the term "girl" for designating grown-up women and the possible retrograde views that may tag along depending on whose using it. What do you think yourself of this GG term? Is there a reason for not using GW instead?
Signed: a GB :)

03-17-2021, 07:49 AM

GG -When I joined 16 years ago that just was the term that everyone used and knew. Not a big deal and I guess some CDs say gurls for themselves.
Also the GGs here have the option to put GG ( or we add) in their name if they want it. I opt out of doing that.
Also when we named our private group we took a vote on a name for it and we voted for FAB (female at birth)
Just some history.
I know what and who I am and do not care for labels in general but I see it as a term basically that is well know, common in the cding circles.

char GG

03-17-2021, 09:44 AM

My hubby thought GG stood for "girly girl" and I thought it was "genetic girl". There may be other variations. :)

I don't care for labels either. It doesn't bother me if it is helpful. Most people on this forum are referred to as "she" and GG may help in differentiating who is responding.

Dutchess

03-17-2021, 04:14 PM

I thought it was genetic girl also. Similar to Di , when I got here 12 years back it was just sort of an identifier that let people know you were not a Cder or a trans person . So you knew who you were talking too . We also had a good group of trans men at that time also so it was helpful there as well .

Miel GG

03-17-2021, 05:05 PM

So the safety of women outdoors is under the microscope today [ March 13 ] in Britain. I'm not sure whether I can post exactly why in this section, but if you google "women safety Britain", it would be impossible not to find out why. It is horrific. It raises (more) trust

So what I'm asking of you is:

1. Which of the steps do each of you take with the hope of improving your safety outdoors in your area? Have they changed over the years, or with the times, or with where you've lived, or through different phases of your life, etc?

2. Do you have any immediate thoughts about the conflict between showing solidarity by gathering in-person and the discouragement from the authorities because of virus procedures?

3. And considering that a lot more of life has been forced online nowadays, which steps do you take to improve your online safety?
.

Just my 2 cents, Lydianne.

1. Which of the steps do each of you take with the hope of improving your safety outdoors in your area? Have they changed over the years, or with the times, or with where you've lived, or through different phases of your life, etc?

I know I will shock some here but the fact is that subconsciously in Western Societies we still consider that the place for FAB is 'at home' and for MAB is 'outside'. The consequence is a different education for boys and girls which leads to a social construction of insecurity for women outside of the home. At the end of the day we FAB have totally integrated as 'natural' that being outside is dangerous for us and we subconsciously and consciously adapt our behaviour to reduce the 'risks'. But is it a myth or a reality ? I am not saying that women are secure outside, too much sordid news items. But more serious studies are needed on this subject. Statistics for instance show that rapes are usually perpetrated by a person known by the women and not by a complete stranger. On the opposite women who go alone at night are more often abused... But only a minority of women are going alone at night because they avoid to be in this situation.

Carole Gardner (sociologist) listed 4 advices given to FAB since the XIXth century : avoid some places or situations especially at night, be accompanied, be discret, be humble. As you can judge by the GG responses, we continue to follow these principles.

I have been followed by men many times when leaving school or college. Besides a potential assault, I was also afraid to go home and let them know where I lived. I used to go to a department store trying to escape them in the crowd. It was really frightful.

As a teen my parents never let me go alone for parties, movies and so on. I had to find a female friend or later a boyfriend.

As an adult I feel more secure being accompanied at night (friend, husband,...). But I also have to go alone. So as the majority of the GGs I anticipate the dangers : flat shoes or sneakers (if running is needed), trousers, have a safe itinerate in mind (avoiding little streets, dark places, groups of men), pepper spray (not anymore), using a private car instead of the subway (but sooo scary to pick your car back in a desert parking lot), ... And of course being on my guard all the time. Not so easy at all to be an independent woman in a big city.

I have had some scary episodes in my life... during the day too... I was abroad for my job. Taking a cab from hotel to airport. Taxi driver began to flirt, I said I wasn't interested. Taxi driver insisted and began to take an exit in the middle of nowhere. Me trying to keep calm but in total panic mode inside. Talking to him again and again... Saying I had a co-worker waiting for me at the airport... No international cellphone at this time.... Finally the taxi driver came to reason and drove me to the airport. No physical harm done. But It was a traumatic experience. My heart still beats too fast when I write this right now.

So, that drives me mad when reading that GGs life is all frivoling. And reading CDs' posts about risky behaviours.

2. Do you have any immediate thoughts about the conflict between showing solidarity by gathering in-person and the discouragement from the authorities because of virus procedures?

Usually my first move in this context would have been to join. But due to COVID (not authorities) I prefer to avoid meetings until I have been vaccinated. This was a difficult decision for me to decide to not join the women's right march on March 8th for instance. Tough year for solidarity demonstration and more generally democracy.

3. And considering that a lot more of life has been forced online nowadays, which steps do you take to improve your online safety?

I avoid to post photos or give personal informations. Have strong passwords.
And as I am not looking for a a mate, I don't have to use date apps.

Dutchess

03-17-2021, 10:43 PM

You know Miel , I had that happen to me in Washington DC in 1982 with a taxi driver . He drove me EVERYWHERE coming onto me . I was trying to get from Georgetown to the Capitol where my mom worked . Like you I was terrified , you are totally at the mercy of his guy in his car and no way out . He was getting ready to drive out into the Virginia countryside when at a red light I actually stepped out of the car and disappeared into traffic and then stepped up in the median then up in between some buildings on the other side of a very busy avenue on the opposite direction .
That stays with you a lifetime .

Miel GG

03-18-2021, 12:04 PM

Dutchess thanks for your testimony. We are very few FABs here... But the fact that both of us have experienced the same although we lived in different continents should lead some to understand that women and men aren't still equal. Until we can do our outside activities all by ourselves, dressed as we want, day or night, without constant fear of harassment, assault, rape, ... we aren't free and in no way the equal of men.

What do you think yourself of this GG term? Is there a reason for not using GW instead?

I learned here that GG means Genetic Girl so I chose to add it to my pseudo as I am not belonging to CD or Trans group.
However I don't like it because I don't find it is respectful at all as we are not girls but women. Female At Birth would have been the right word.
I think on my part that the choice of GG instead of FAB is revealing a lot about CDs.... I am not a girl anymore and proud of it !

ReineD

03-26-2021, 10:22 AM

however I would question the use of the term "girl" for designating grown-up women ...

I don't think of myself as a girl, nor do I refer to myself as one. The term "GG" doesn't sound like "girl" when you say it out loud and so to me, it has become this site's generic term for female.

This phenomenon is called using a proprietary eponym or a genericized trademark (I googled it :)) ... like saying 'kleenex' for tissue or zipper for a clasp locker. lol

EDIT - Actually in the beginning, Leslie Caron always came to mind when I read the term "GG", because it sounds like the 1950's film "Gigi" with Maurice Chevalier. I saw the film in the 1970s.

ReineD

03-26-2021, 11:06 AM

But the fact that both of us have experienced the same although we lived in different continents should lead some to understand that women and men aren't still equal. Until we can do our outside activities all by ourselves, dressed as we want, day or night, without constant fear of harassment, assault, rape, ... we aren't free and in no way the equal of men.

As a young woman, I also received unwanted attention by men. I still always felt safe. Maybe this is because the first 30 years of my life were spent in Canada and/or I was naive? I always did avoid walking alone very late at night in deserted areas. I lived in both Montreal and Vancouver, and there were always people walking around until quite late ... and so I felt I could go anywhere. But, this was Canada. Maybe it is different there now.

In more recent years, my car was parked in the isolated car park area that is away from the busy street full of restaurants and bars, and I did ask two young guys to walk me to my car one night when I stayed out quite late with my friend. We live in a small college town and there are always students around on the main street. They were very nice and they obliged ... I guess I reminded them of their moms. :) There have been assaults in this parking lot - but it is mostly men who have had their wallets and phones stolen. And one night my SO was driving home from his office quite late. The campus is large and rather isolated at night. He saw one of his male students who had been assaulted - the guy had a bloody nose. The thieves knocked him down and took his laptop. No one is safe around here late at night if they are alone. I don't know what it is - maybe there are more desperate people who need money for drug addictions?

EDITED TO ADD:
A big part of the safety theme in this thread centered around feeling safe while out in public. Lydianne's original question was, "What do you do to improve your safety outdoors in your area". So a thought belatedly occurred to me.

Did you all know that most rapes are committed by someone the victim knows? According to the Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network, 45% of rapes are committed by an acquaintance and an additional 25% by a former intimate partner. I was raped when I was 17, by my 18 year-old neighbor - the son of my mother's good friend and a school mate. He needed a date to accept an award in a city a few hours away and I had agreed to go, with the blessings of both his mother and mine. He raped me in my room at the hotel when I was getting ready for the evening. What could I have done to keep myself safe under these circumstances? Not much. But in public spaces, I never really worried about my safety - provided I didn't walk around alone in deserted, dark places late at night ... which most men would also be wise to avoid. I would never jog at night in NYC Central Park, for example. I would keep to well lit city streets.

Crissy 107

05-09-2021, 07:05 AM

Happy Mother’s Day to all the wonderful Mothers we have on this site

How do you plan on spending today?

Dutchess

05-09-2021, 09:37 AM

Thank you Crissy ! I am going on one of my long hikes in the Sierra's again this AM .I find such peace up there .

char GG

05-09-2021, 09:58 AM

Thank you. Our son is coming for lunch. Our daughter lives three hours away and we saw her a few days ago. My day will be getting outside and enjoying the crazy, cold, spring weather.

ellbee

06-08-2021, 07:24 AM

Greetings, GG's! Hope you're peachy!! :wave2:

This might, at least at first glance, sound like a really stupid & even nosy question, but I do have to ask.

Answer if you may...

Do the GG's here ever have discussion amongst themselves regarding something in the public forums, in particular?

Could be a specific thread, or subject, or post, or person, or photo, or issue that an unrelated CD'er is currently going through, or whatever.

Does something like this ever spur a conversation between you ladies?

Thanks! :)

06-08-2021, 09:22 AM

Mostly we talk about our life or help new GGs that join.
We occasionally say something about a post ( cannot remember ever talking about photos) but we already have said our feelings, advice in the OP post in open forum. We might ask if the other GGs see it as we do.
But our relationships, life is most important to us .

Some GGs ( esp new ones) do not like to even read or go onto the reg forum at all.

TamT

06-18-2021, 11:31 AM

char GG

06-18-2021, 01:57 PM

Just a reminder to the newer people for this section: It's for a question to be asked of the GG's. The GG answers. There is no back and forth discussion in this thread.

TamaraToros,

I understand that it is a great loss of confidence. What advice could you give her?

Well, it's a complicated question. Are they really the same? Were they hiding this when they got married or did it "suddenly" come on late in life (as was the case with my husband). It's hard to give a wife any advice without knowing the specifics of the husband's commitment to his wife vs CDing. Maybe they are the same person on the outside but inside has changed. It could certainly vary and/or change. A question that I had when my hubby started CDing was, "what is the end game"? Did he stick to it? Does he secretly or not so secretly want to go further? Is he excited for the wife to leave so he can CD? Does he think that by pushing (which the GG's call the drip drip drip method), that he will somehow get his wife "patterned" to CDing. This is usually an obvious ploy/trick which in my case, would have definitely made me angry, backfire, and not trust any of his answers to my questions.

Each relationship is different and there is no "one answer fits all" to your question.

In my case, my husband has assured to me over and over that he is committed to our relationship over and above CDing. That may not be true for everyone.

From your point of view, what could I do to reaffirm to her that I am still the same person as always?

You are the only one that can answer this question. Do you love her the same? Treat her the same? Do you think she gets in the way of your CDing? I can't answer any of that.

One of the GG's here met her hubby as a CDer.

06-18-2021, 04:48 PM

Great question TamT,
Tell her and show her in every way you can.
I usually say for the cd to say I am the person you love, nothing has changed except now you know everything. Sorry I hid it I was afraid.
Please now that she does know do not go crazy with the pink fog.

Sashauk

06-23-2021, 02:53 AM

I would like to pose a question to all the GGs here - how do you feel about the double standards that prevail when it comes to clothes?

A female wearing jeans/trousers (pants) with a button down shirt would provoke no comment if out in public. However, a male wearing a skirt/dress with a blouse or top in public is perceived as being odd or worse.

So why do you think that a lot of women, who would think nothing of dressing in a masculine style themselves, are shocked or offended when they see a man in a dress?

char GG

06-23-2021, 05:27 AM

You are probably asking the wrong audience as most of the GG's on this forum are accepting. Another thing is, CDer sightings in the real world are so rare that sometimes people have never seen a man in a dress before.

Fashion for GG's has changed. It wasn't always acceptable for women to wear pants but now it's common and not considered masculine. Seventy years ago, it was perceived as "uncommon" for a woman to wear pants.

I'm just speculating here but most women wearing jeans/pants are not attempting to look like men. It's just the fashion. Many CDers wear their their choice - dresses and skirts- but add wigs, forms, hip pads, high heels, etc. and try to look like (or in the eyes of an outsider "pretend") to be a women. Again, most people in the real world never encounter that look on a man.

We have one particular man on this forum who wears skirts/heels. He makes no attempt to "look" like the other gender overall. He is currently very popular with the news media and has been featured in magazines.

confused_cathreen

06-23-2021, 12:26 PM

Questions:

I know it is unfair that a woman does not know that her future husband is a CD, because she was not given the opportunity to choose whether or not she wanted to continue with the relationship, but if she has discovered it already married, do you think she could ever to accept it?

I understand that it is a great loss of confidence. What advice could you give her?

From your point of view, what could I do to reaffirm to her that I am still the same person as always?
Hi Tam, be aware that I am no longer with my crossdressing ex so my answer is based on that. You said it is a great loss of confidence? In what, did you mean? It was a great loss of trust that was never recovered. It required a lot of work on his part that he didn't have it in him to put into the relationship. So if I have any advice is, don't be him. Realise that this is something you brought into the relationship and no matter how uncomfortable it makes you, it's your responsibility to drive. Primarily by asking her loads of questions about how she feels, and then by offering her to set boundaries. Putting her first goes against everything that crossdressing isn't about but in most cases, it is necessary.
Also, a word of advice: when my ex used this line (I am still the same person I was before), my answer was, what person? A liar? Wishing you good luck, you have no control over her acceptance levels but you can make the process easier for her.

- - - Updated - - -

I would like to pose a question to all the GGs here - how do you feel about the double standards that prevail when it comes to clothes?

A female wearing jeans/trousers (pants) with a button down shirt would provoke no comment if out in public. However, a male wearing a skirt/dress with a blouse or top in public is perceived as being odd or worse.

So why do you think that a lot of women, who would think nothing of dressing in a masculine style themselves, are shocked or offended when they see a man in a dress?
Hi Sasha, I am not sure what you mean by double standards. Everyone is free to wear what they want, women don't have any more freedoms than men do. You think people are shocked or offended by you going around wearing whatever you want? How do you know that? I have seen a few crossdressers out, I haven't seen anyone react in any of these ways that you mentioned. A big part of course is what char mentioned, you are not just wearing clothes, are you? You try to pass as a female. Completely different beast. That's what might make a person look twice. Recently, I passed a crossdresser/tg in the street. We are all wearing masks here, so it wasnt their face that gave them away. I don't know how to explain it, they tried too hard to pass? That's what made me do a double take, I wasn't sure what he/she was. But there was no shock or offence there, there was only a brief moment of wonder and I went on my way.
Also, I would like to point out that I have never in my life worn man's trousers or shirts. Always women's. Hope that clears things up.

06-23-2021, 03:56 PM

There is no double standard you can wear what you want.
There might be circumstances where you might feel that is l so.
Since so many are closeted crossdressers, it is hidden .
Ones that lie or hide it from the wife/ gf...who’s fault is that?
Things will never change with cders feeling ashamed and hiding it .
Wear what you want

The double standard that CDs say really annoys me……wear what you want !
Do the work to make it known, acceptable?.stop with the excuses.

Like the others have said
Women are not trying to look like a man….women are wearing their own clothing that they bought….apples and oranges here.
Again
Wear what you want !

While I am on a tangent…..the ones that say my wife never wears a dress blah blah blah…….SO WHAT …wear what you want and let her wear what she wants.. You do not like it when you think people are judging you for your choices in dress …who are you to criticize others and what they wear?
AGAIN WEAR what you Want!

Not saying any of the scenarios above are you but they are annoying when cders say such nonsense.
END RANT

Dutchess

06-24-2021, 09:28 AM

I agree totally with everything said here . ^^^^^^^^^^^

That being said my history with men since 1975 has HAD to include men who are very androgynous so somehow they didnt get the message that it wasnt ok to dress as they want ,,most VERY flamboyantly with every color and pattern and fabric under the rainbow , have VERY long hair , wear make up , nail polish , pierced ears and yes lots of body art in my case . I have had no shortage of men like this . So when I see CD'ers and even some transfolk complain about this I just dont understand . Men have been doing their own thing for eons . Its often in the persons mind that they cant wear XYZ .

If you choose boring menswear thats up to you but you can actually wear some really extremely glam stuff in male mode if you open your mind, step outside the box you put yourself in , look in alternative places and stop "blaming society ". Your employer might care , yes ,but general society does not .

The only times I have had a reaction to a cd'er in public is when they are dressed SO inappropriately that I am not shocked or offended but actually question the persons mental health . The last one I saw like that was last fall in a very busy grocery . Wore a one piece backless halter top bathing suit with obvious forms , a short short dance skirt over that , shimmer panty hose with black pumps and he was around 60 . Anyone who wears something like that IS going to get looks . Period . This person simply carried on as normal .

Stephanie47

06-27-2021, 10:18 AM

There is a thread open in another section concerning wearing makeup during the extreme heat in Texas. Personally, I do not know any women who use full makeup during an extreme hot weather event. The forecast for today in my area is 105 F. What do you GG's do when it is extremely hot? On a non-event day? Or when there is some social function? No matter what time of the year or occasion my wife is down to lip gloss/lipstick, period!

Dutchess

06-27-2021, 11:54 AM

Hi Stephanie ,
Alo of people here know I was born and raised in Texas , 8th generation and I tell you the make up scene there is cultural also . All my female relatives , friends etc wore and wear ALOT of make up no matter the weather . Now that I have lived away from there and the culture a long time I have changed drastically how I wear my make up . They really lay it ON back home and that makes me look much older and is not a good look but again its as much cultural there as anything .

I am 58 now and if I wear foundation its going to be a tinted BB cream (tinted moisturizer) nothing more . If its too hot - its been over 100 all week here and will be 112 today - Ill just wear a liquid concealer under my eyes , sides of my nose , my chin and forehead LIGHTLY , nothing else on my face . Ill do my eyes however I want and I always wear just gloss . You get a certain age and lipstick just looks heavy, gives that funeral home appearance ,plus it feathers and I am not putting on any lip base stuff . I haven't worn blush in many years although I loved our 70s looks . Used lots of blush then but not today .

ReineD

06-27-2021, 04:04 PM

how do you feel about the double standards that prevail when it comes to clothes?

I don't see it as having double standards. Jeans, trousers, and button-down shirts have become staples of women's wardrobes. They have become a new standard of feminine. It's not the clothes that makes a woman feminine, it's the way she looks in them (https://www.herstylecode.com/outfits/how-to-wear-a-button-up/). Women's button-down shirts are not shaped like men's, they are shaped to flatter a woman's figure. Same with women's slacks or jeans. They are generally tighter, you can tell that a woman has a derriere, and the pockets are useless. You can't even fit a cell phone in them. Also, is the woman attempting to look like a guy? Does she have a guy's haircut, is she wearing men's shoes, is the average woman big like the average guy in terms of height, hand and foot size, neck size, etc? No.

Do you know when the wearing of pants became mainstream among women? It was during WWII because so many women were contributing to the war effort by working while the men were gone. It's so much more practical to wear pants in a factory than a dress. Shoulder-pads became fashionable during the 1940s to emphasize the woman's newly found independence and power. There was a bit of a backslide in fashion during the 1950s after the men came back and life returned to normal, the economy was booming, the middle class was growing, and people were having families. And so women's fashions turned to the ultra-feminine for about a decade, until my generation came along. LOL. We said, "No, thank you". :) We wouldn't settle for the woman's 1950s secondary role in society. We wanted equal career opportunities with equal pay. Equal power and equal say. And along with that came the appropriate fashion styles, which brought pants back in fashion again. Even shoulder-pads came back for awhile.

So no, women don't dress like men. They dress and look like independent women. You can still tell they are women. :)

If you asked a trans-man whether he thought cis women wearing today's styles look masculine, I think he'd have a good chuckle. Trans-men wear men's haircuts, actual men's clothes (that are cut differently than women's), and men's shoes. They camouflage their breasts, they don't wear makeup, feminine jewelry or perfume, and they have a masculine demeanor because they want to be taken as men. There's a difference.

char GG

06-27-2021, 06:18 PM

Regarding Stephanie's makeup question: No matter what the weather is, I always wear tinted moisturizer, eye liner, and waterproof mascara. I don't wear any makeup to my exercise classes which are early in the morning.

06-28-2021, 11:31 AM

Re the makeup question.
I am retired now and always wore makeup at work ( back in the day ) but now no matter the weather I only leave the house with lippy.
My complexion, ect I really do not need much more.
Unless going out to somewhere special ( rare )
I also feel I look younger without the makeup ……my daughters really wear no makeup either …..I think that is the trend now.

Add
I do understand a cder wearing makeup esp contour…..many cders say they do not feel feminine till they put the makeup on.

ReineD

06-28-2021, 04:00 PM

I understand that it is a great loss of confidence. What advice could you give her?

From your point of view, what could I do to reaffirm to her that I am still the same person as always?

A woman would lose confidence when she finds out her husband is a CDer? She would lose confidence in what, her femininity? I disagree. What her husband chooses to do or not do has no impact on her innate femininity. Or did you mean something else.

In terms of being the same person as always, yes you are - but you’re not the person she THOUGHT you were. So I would ask her what she needs in a husband outside of any crossdressing considerations, and prove to her that you can give her what she needs.

What do you GG's do when it is extremely hot? On a non-event day? Or when there is some social function? No matter what time of the year or occasion my wife is down to lip gloss/lipstick, period!

I wear no makeup at all. I take care of my skin and do my best to keep it looking healthy; not clogging up my pores with makeup helps. For special outings (maybe once per month or two), I wear a light foundation to even out my skin tone with a bit of bronzer on the cheekbones, I darken my eyebrows a bit with an angled brush and eye shadow to match my eyebrow color, and wear a bit of mascara. I smooth out my lips with lip balm, no color needed. It all takes under 5 minutes.

Robbiegirl

08-08-2021, 10:48 AM

Ladies before you were in a relationship with a CD did it ever even cross your mind that it might be interesting/fun to see a Boy/Man put on female attire ? Did you ever think it might be fun for Halloween or boredom to have a guy model an old Bridesmaids Dress or out of fashion dress ? When women pretty much had to wear dresses all the time growing up did you ever think it would be fun to see how guys would react if they had to spend a day in female attire ? It does seem like lots of girls dress up their younger brothers growing up and their mothers usually seem to enjoy it so there must be some interest or curiosity in women concerning boys and girls clothing.
Any thoughts would be great, Thanks

Miel GG

08-08-2021, 12:11 PM

I think you will be disappointed Robbie.
When I was a child I never disguised anybody, whatever their gender was. I also never imagined it would be fun for any boy to wear a dress, on the contrary I was envious of the pants they wore, free to move, play or even get dirty when I had to stay quiet and pretty.
As an adult I have cursed men/society many times and wished the men had been compelled too to have their hair and make-up done and skirt suit put on at 7 am every day of the year.
Today I just think non binary dress code is good for all of us.

char GG

08-08-2021, 12:51 PM

I agree with Miel. You may be overthinking this, Robbie. Only once, I remember my friends and I dressed up my baby brother because we were playing "wedding" and he kept pestering us to play with him. Other than that time, I never gave it another thought.

We were required to wear dresses at school, which I hated. My legs were cold in the winter, it was impossible to hang upside down on the monkey bars without wearing "security shorts", not much fun to swing with a dress that flew around. It was more fun to play in the hayloft and climb apple trees on my grandparent's farm while wearing "play clothes". My best friends were boys and we built go-carts and forts, rode bikes, played in the dirt, played tin can alley, looked for toads and built dams in the creek. All of that would have been difficult to do in a dress. The reality is that when my friends and I got home from school, we would change into shorts/pants that we could play in.

I could have cared less what the boys thought or how they would have reacted if they had to wear a dress. That never crossed my mind.

Dutchess

08-08-2021, 11:08 PM

I have to say that I always hope that the mom scenarios I read about here are fantasy and not real .. because Its very wrong . I would never EVER dress up one of my boys and I have 4 of them . If they want to wear whatever then so be it but I would NEVER do something to my kids for my own amusement that could really turn into lifelong problems . This happened to my ex husband it in reality with a close female relative and its not ok .

The rest , no I did not . I was in love with Davy Jones and George Harrison and never once hoped to see them in an old bridesmaids dress . I loved 60's hip male fashions . High end mens clothing from any era can be totally glam ( think Prince , David Bowie , Marc Bolan ) I like that way more than seeing them in womens fashions.

CharlotteCD

08-09-2021, 04:53 AM

Questions for the GGs then, which will very much be a personal opinion rather than a group consensus, and possibly all three parts for many.

1) After you found out, but before you saw your SO dressed, how did you imagine them to look - was it that they'd look absolutely ridiculous, or did you imagine them passing?

2) When you saw them, how did you actually respond mentally?

3) Would you have preferred to see them looking like a bad halloween outfit, or would you have preferred a smart/as passable as possible within their body restrictions?

I ask as with my wife knowing, but having never seen me, I do wonder what sort of thing she's imagining in her head! I assume it's that I would look ridiculous!

char GG

08-09-2021, 06:04 AM

I will send you a PM, Charlotte.

08-09-2021, 10:22 AM

I never know ifI should answer or not since our situation was not the norm.
We met here on the forum, I saw many pictures, we dated as Sher and Di ( met halfway at niagara Falls) only saw the guy side many months in when I had vacation and more time away from work .
We were nervous meeting as guy side and Di. Sounds made up but our journey together is on the forum.
When we talked she expressed wanted to be free and out + live her life as Sherlyn when she wanted. So of course it would be beneficial to blend/ pass.
When she was married and had to hide it ( wife not accepting) she locked herself in the bathroom for long soaking baths??. but she really was practicing her makeup skills ???.she had professional level makeup skills from all those years .
Only thing we had to work on was clothing when out and about. She liked a more sexy short style and that was-cool for clubs or pictures here everyday life clothing was the only change needed.
So long story short / I hoped and wanted the best for her and it was reciprocated.

Your questions
We talked everyday for months on camera and it was always Sherlyn
So I already knew what to expect
I only wanted the best as this was goingto be our life. This might differ where the wife has not seen and the cder is in the closet ?..but this was not our life .

Dutchess

08-09-2021, 04:44 PM

Hi Charlotte , I have two answers for each , because I had two folks in my life like this and each was very different ...

1. My ex hsband never told me . I did ask because something was not right but I didnt know what ( I even asked before we married and he VEHEMENTLY denied anything was amiss) anyway the first time I knew anything about him dressing , I caught him in my clothes "entertaining himself " in front of a computer screen full of unmentionables . I can tell you I really almost fainted , literally my heart felt weird i my chest . It was bad , so many things were explained right there and it was painful . We really could not recover . He had such a hard time with reality / the truth at he even tried to tell me I was not seeing was I was presently seeing lol

My late fiance I knew from the start dressed , I met him through someone here and I was fully aware . It was obvious he was male but he was really androgynous looking anyway. He was so beautiful I didnt even notice the clothes plus he had his own super long hair .they both did so no wigs involved . knowing right away helped like with Sher and Di .

2. My ex husband as I said I was VERY faint the first time but you can probably see why . My late fiance I just wanted to see him in person and give him big kisses !!! but I certainly didnt tell him that .....

3. I dont think any of us ( the GGs ) want to see our companions / husbands etc in these highly sexualized outfits / the skinny jean thing that some here think are sexy or what women wear etc . My exhusband would only wear these outrageous things an I was so ashamed that I wouldnt go out with him but he never stopped . I was really repulsed . Plus he would steal our ( my daughters and my own ) clothing and hide them or sometimes be so jealous he would trash our things .

My fiance would wear long skirts with cami's in the summer and sweaters in winter and that was ok . He would wear very expensive clothes which just looked better anyway and would also wear unisex clothes like really high grade chic skiwear ( he was a semi pro skier ) He would also buy me lots of beautiful clothing that I have now. Me more stuff than he would buy himself . The way he treated me was just so much better that the clothes were really secondary .

CharlotteCD

08-10-2021, 04:44 AM

Thanks so much for the responses and PMs, fascinating!

ReineD

08-10-2021, 03:22 PM

Ladies before you were in a relationship with a CD did it ever even cross your mind that ...

I have a younger brother and it never occurred to me, not even once, to dress him up as a girl. As to the rest of your questions, it's a big no to all of them. Until I met my SO, I thought that men dressing up as women were weird. I had already developed a big crush on my SO before I knew about the CDing, which is the reason why I continued the relationship after he told me. I was into him enough to give it a chance despite the CDing. When I love someone, I don't try to change them - I respect and accept who they are, just as I appreciate it when they respect and accept who I am. And if there is something about either of us that neither of us can live comfortably with, then we compromise.

1) After you found out, but before you saw your SO dressed, how did you imagine them to look - was it that they'd look absolutely ridiculous, or did you imagine them passing?

2) When you saw them, how did you actually respond mentally?

3) Would you have preferred to see them looking like a bad halloween outfit, or would you have preferred a smart/as passable as possible within their body restrictions?

I imagined that he would look the same, except with makeup and female clothes, which he did ... just as I look the same, whether or not I have makeup on and no matter what I wear. I responded mentally by accepting the CDing. I would not like my SO to dress like a tart. I don't dress like a tart and I don't hang out with GGs who dress like tarts. :)

ellbee

10-28-2021, 08:08 PM

Quick question... :devil:

Any GG's here still do the Halloween costume thing?

Fess up! :p

char GG

10-28-2021, 08:19 PM

Yes!

We usually go to a large Halloween party in a large town near us. Also, there is an adult Halloween night parade nearby that we sometimes attend. I dress up in costume for both events.

I also love to wear my light up shoes to the night parade.

Many of the moms in our town wear costumes to go trick-or-treating with their kids.

It's all just fun.

Dutchess

10-28-2021, 09:57 PM

No but its because I celebrate Samhain on that day so I have an outfit for that but its a little different. Plus I lost my partner as most know so Im kind of timid to still go out by myself yet . I am getting better though .
ALL my grown kids still love Halloween though and wish it were everyday . I used to dress up with them .

10-29-2021, 12:22 PM

Love Halloween and decorate early.
Sher and I-went to Halloween partys every year
Last few years I dress up and hand out candy any excuse to dress up….but not up to partys without Sher as yet.

confused_cathreen

11-02-2021, 05:48 AM

Topical question, the simple answer is no. But then, I have rarely done. I am just not investing time or efford in things like that. That's my personal stance at least, which doesn't stop me smiling when I see kids dressed up and excited. My thing is Christmas!

Blonde617

11-06-2021, 09:44 AM

Adult dating.

At some point probably going to make an online dating profile. Looking for a serious relationship. Part of me wants to disclose that crossdressing is part of my life up front. The other part of me says "First things first" and the time will come to disclose that. In my 60's so the women interested are unlikely to be as familiar with TG life as younger people.

Advice? Won't be doing it for a few months. Should I put that in my profile, or wait until we’ve started conversing? Never had an online dating profile before. And it won’t be for hookups.

Thank you!

char GG

11-06-2021, 09:55 AM

If CDing is important to you, which I assume it is, then disclose it. You say you are looking for a serious relationship, then be up front with who you are and what your interests are. Why waste your time and the potential date's time?

Blonde617

11-07-2021, 05:09 AM

Thank you. Haven’t found a profile that mentions anything like this, but just started looking and not sure what sites are best for O60’s anyway. I’ll keep looking.

11-07-2021, 08:21 AM

I knew from the beginning as we met here.
I would be upfront if it is important to you like Char said.
If you do wait to say tell till after you are dating, make sure you do.
As you can see from the forum many chicken out and as the dressing becomes more important to you ( many think after marriage you will stop…..it will not for long ) and years, children, houses , jobs life making it much harder and more resentment on both sides.

If you decide to wait, I feel that will be harder to do , and if you find someone you really click with you probably will be scared of losing her. You can see from the GGs here, the not telling is the problem they have getting over with more than the cding for most.
What ever way you decide I am happy you are going to be showing the complete picture of you early on.
I always say with me knowing it was an adventure for both of us and made for an intimate relationship.
Best Wishes

Blonde617

11-07-2021, 10:25 AM

Thank you all. Appreciate everyone’s advice. Honesty is definitely the best policy.

Told my [now ex] wife and other women I dated after we’d dated a while: before we got serious but not the first date. In fact recently started telling my immediate family members as this isn’t something I want to keep secret anymore.

But don’t have any idea how the dating sites work and it seems like they take the place of a first date or more.

After the holidays I’ll try to make a plan

ReineD

11-08-2021, 06:41 AM

Blonde617, if I had first seen my SO through an online dating profile and if he had publicly disclosed the CDing, I likely would not have dated him. I am not biased against alternative expression, but I am all too familiar with the hassles that dating a CDer can potentially create. Questions pop up such as, should I tell my adult sons, will they respect him if I do or will it place us all in awkward situations when we get together for holidays and milestone celebrations. Will we be the topic of gossip among my family, friends, and acquaintances. Will some people choose to distance themselves from us, will some doors be closed to us, etc, or the alternative hassle of having to lie to others if the relationship decision is to keep things private. It has felt awkward to have to lie when my sons asked what we did when we went away for the weekend. Or constantly looking over our shoulders when we are out dressed, lest we run into someone we know or who works with my SO.

The thing is, most people who don't already have a loved one or a good friend who crossdresses (which is the vast majority of people), do have at least an unformed or inchoate bias against it. They don't have any personal experience with CDers, they don't know that they are just regular folks. Many people in their 50s or 60s and older have very vague notions based on all the negative representations of CDers they have seen in the media most of their lives (think of the movie Silence of the Lambs, or news articles of men who CD for fetish and who are arrested for poor behavior). Granted, some people are more enlightened and believe in everyone's right to sexual and gender expression, but a lot of these people don't want to put up with the hassle when it comes to a potential long-term relationship. NIMBY comes to mind.

And so I recommend that you do not put it out there publicly. Besides, you are not guaranteed to begin a relationship with everyone you will have a first date with. If things don't click after a date or two, then why should you tell them.

But, if you should click with someone then do tell her, at least before you will have seen each other half a dozen times or so. She will by that time know a bit about you and the other facets of your personality, and she will presumably like you (else she would not have gone out with you several times), and so she may be more willing to work with the CDing than if she had just read about it, not having developed the beginnings of affection.

But don't wait too long to tell - tell her at least within the first month, then she won't feel lied to or betrayed since you will both be at the very beginning of your relationship and will not yet have invested too much in it. If she rejects the CDing, then neither of you will have lost very much and you can part as friends.

My SO told me shortly after our very first kiss and in my view, this was the ideal time to disclose it. I had developed enough feelings toward him to want to continue the relationship, yet I didn't feel lied to or manipulated.

Good luck!

Blonde617

11-08-2021, 07:56 AM

ReineD, thank you so much! That sounds workable. It will be part of any relationship but not the only part!

jessicabf

11-08-2021, 01:14 PM

Looking for advise. (Background, my SO is fully supportive of my CDing, so much that I would say she has been the instigator more than I have.) She spent a weekend with her sister and niece and really enjoyed ?girls night out?.

Any advice on activities and ways that will help bring this to the evenings when she and I ?go out? (even when I am guy-mode)?

I realize I could ?just ask her?, but kinda wanted to bring things that she may not be expecting. A pleasant surprise. 😁

char GG

11-08-2021, 03:54 PM

Not sure where in the midwest you live but a few suggestions are: concerts, plays, movies, ballet, dancing (if she likes that), casinos, if she is interested in sports - some type of game (football, basketball, hockey), trendy breweries or pubs. Weekend at some hotel with amenities such as pool, hot tub, nice restaurants. One of the larger towns near us has hay rides in the country and in town - horse drawn carriage rides in town.

You say you live in the midwest, if you are near a large town (Chicago??/Milwaukee??/Denver??) then take a few days and see the sights. This time of year, there are usually cider tours and wine tasting near us.

Depending on how adventurous you are, book a plane flight to someplace fun that she may like to go (San Francisco? Key West? Telluride, Boston) Even further, look into a cruise or all inclusive resort.

Or, you could stick to your original plan and ask her.

jessicabf

11-08-2021, 04:05 PM

Thanks for the reply, Char.

We actually move back out west. A bit rural. We have to drive a few hours to get into any real cities. Need to update my profile. :-)

char GG

11-08-2021, 04:15 PM

Ahhh, well, walking through parks and bike riding is always fun.

11-08-2021, 11:00 PM

Any advice on activities and ways that will help bring this to the evenings when she and I ?go out? (even when I am guy-mode)?

I realize I could ?just ask her?, but kinda wanted to bring things that she may not be expecting. A pleasant surprise. 😁

That really would depend on what your wife likes.
Sherlyn and I were really into the music scene and we went to concerts, plus local places for live music.
I liked getting pedicures so we did that together a few times. We also lives in a rural village so drove in to enjoy the things we liked to do.
Hope you find something fun.

ReineD

11-09-2021, 03:24 PM

Jessica, when hanging out I do the same things with my female friends as I do with my SO. Going out for dinner and/or a movie, or having coffee in a bookstore/cafe, or going out for a drink. If there is a good concert in town, that is always fun too, or art galleries are wonderful if you enjoy art. I’m lucky that both my SO and my female friends love art. I’ve also gone for short hikes out in nature with both female friends and my SO.

The only thing I don’t do with friends or my SO is shop. I hate shopping with people because I like to go at my own pace and I don’t like spending any more time in stores than I have to. lol

So like the other ladies said, just do whatever you both like to do.

And last, there is one thing that makes the difference between a girl’s night out and going out with my SO (no matter how my SO is dressed), and that is the person I am out with more than what we do. When I’m with a female friend we talk about our SOs (lol), which is something I can’t very well do with my SO. :) Conversely, I can talk to my SO about my female friends, which is something that I can’t really do with them.

jessicabf

11-09-2021, 03:50 PM

Thanks for the thoughts! We do regular dates, to keep our relationship at the forefront of priorities. (work, kids? try to stoke our original flame as much as we can.)

It just hit me when she talked about her enjoyment with being with her girlfriends. Trying to decide if I would bring something else to out time to kindle the same enjoyment.

I suppose it just may always be different, like you say.

🤔

ReineD

11-15-2021, 05:11 PM

It just hit me when she talked about her enjoyment with being with her girlfriends.

I think that has more to do with the type of relationship she has with them, as opposed to the type of relationship she has with you. It doesn't really matter what is the activity when we go out with friends. It's the conversations we have with them, and I don't mean talking about shopping, grooming, or clothes. ;)

Kelli_cd

02-20-2022, 11:35 PM

Miel GG

02-21-2022, 04:54 AM

I was grocery shopping today and the lady in the checkout beside me was wearing a lovely outfit: navy blue dress, gold zipper down the back, and white heels. While we were in line, I said to her, "your outfit is really cute." She took the compliment well, and thanked me.
I almost feel awkward complimenting ladies in the current culture. I'm thankful she took it for what it was, a compliment. My question is - what is the best way to compliment women, without being creepy and without setting things off? I'm assuming that in this case, I did all right. Things can get toxic so quickly, even though there was nothing more intended.

TIA.

Like you said, in our current culture, men usually have an hidden agenda when complimenting women. Compliments on our appearance, even if they are doing it in a kind way as you did, is just a reminder of the way our society treats women. My advice to you is to avoid to do so.

Like a lot of GGs I dress for myself and I don't need any approval from strangers, male or female. When I need an opinion or advice on my look I just ask for it :)

char GG

02-21-2022, 07:37 AM

I agree with Miel. Although it was a nice compliment, I would feel a little unsettled if a stranger complimented my look.

Dutchess

02-21-2022, 12:16 PM

Somehow in the giant CD/TG lexicon ,the notion that women compliment each other all the time has become very exaggerated . I wear alot of upscale art pieces and women do compliment me occasionally but its always asking where I got it . Like an actual inquiry . Some women do compliment dressers /tg'ers but that's for an entirely different reason.
If a male person compliments us , no matter how they identify ,we are going to go on alert . Maybe a little maybe alot ... but its part of our built in security system developed over human history .

02-21-2022, 08:11 PM

Have to agree with the rest/. A guy complementing on my outfit would put me on high alert. We have to be alert , many of us have had reasons to feel that way. So my advice just think it to your self.

ReineD

02-25-2022, 05:12 AM

I agree with the other ladies. Non-CDers usually keep their compliments in check when it comes to women they don't know, for fear they'll come off as hitting on them. And even when they compliment their female friends, it's more along the lines of "You look great" rather than "I really like your outfit". Also Dutchess brings up a good point - CDers seem to exaggerate the notion that GGs compliment each other. I do not go up to GG strangers in grocery stores and tell them I like their clothes. Frankly, I don't care what other GGs wear.

If a strange man complimented any part of my person, I would wonder what was his agenda. But, given that I'm familiar with members of this community, if he had the CDer tells (thinned eyebrows, or long fingernails, or longish hair, or pierced ears, or perhaps even one item of questionable clothing), then I would take his compliment as CDer infatuation for all things feminine rather than admiration of any part of my person.

But, feel free to compliment the women who are your friends though, or better yet your wife! :)

Mimi

02-26-2022, 06:12 PM

I think it depends on the location, situation, outfit,and other things. I have complimented women in line that I don't know on an interesting piece of jewelry. If I'm in a situation where people are all very dressed up, then there's nothing wrong with one woman complimenting another on her put-together outfit or showy dress. I think if the person is dressing and identifying as a woman at the time, and they compliment another woman in a general, social way, that's fine, and if I'm out in a social situation and see someone who I think is a CD, dressed in a nice dress, I'll go out of my way to compliment them because I think it is affirming to them. If a man compliments a strange woman on her outfit--that can come across as hitting on her, especially if there's a power dynamic, or not a time when the woman might even be thinking about her appearance.

confused_cathreen

02-28-2022, 06:41 AM

I would avoid doing the whole "complimenting" thing, if I were you. I also am not interested in being assessed by strangers on what I am wearing. Because that's what a compliment is, that you looked someone over and you found them agreable. I think I have done it once or twice (?) where I complimented a guy's suit at a wedding, although they were not a stranger. Think of it the opposite way, would you have liked to be stopped on the street and be told that you have no dress sense? Like the other ladies, I dress for myself. And sometimes (rarely), for the man I am with if the occassion calls for it and he has expressed a fondness for a particular outift. That is a big "maybe" though. If I want someone's opinion, I ask for it. But that would never happen with a stranger, male or female.

ellbee

02-28-2022, 08:33 PM

Question for the GG's...! :wave2:

How do you personally feel about CD'ers using a public women's restroom? Perhaps one that you're in, even?

And a follow-up question, if I may... :p

What's the general take on that, for GG's as a whole? Have you ever heard anything positive/negative from other GG's?

I ask this, because I know of someone who isn't a CD'er, but is actually officially *transitioning* -- and to my surprise, quite a few of their GG co-workers did *not* want them using the regular multi-occupant women's room! :confused2:

Anyway, thanks! :)

char GG

02-28-2022, 08:55 PM

Personally, I don't care. I get in and get out.

However, I know many women who are strongly against/uncomfortable with Crossdressers, Transgender, or men using the women's restroom. Of those, some use the public space in the ladies room to change clothes for whatever reason.

Other friends were alarmed at a hotel on Halloween when crossdressers and men came into the ladies room. My friends were suspicious that it was just a ruse to enter the ladies room and very unhappy about it.

I also witnessed a man (on Halloween again), waltz to the front of a line of GG's waiting for their turn. It was brutal! The GG's read him the riot act.

I also have a close friend with strong views against it. She was alone in a public city owned multi stall restroom when a man (possibly a CDer) entered. She was alarmed and angry. She even reported him to the authorities. In her case, I would have been alarmed also.

GG's can't read the minds of CDers who show up when the ladies are alone. Keep in mind that GGs are concerned about their safety and feel vulnerable in restrooms. They do have the expectation that it is a safe space is for GG's.

GG's are the majority in their restrooms. Anyone who is not a GG is in the minority. If a lady has a hissy fit about a man in the ladies public restroom, the authorities will most likely side with the GG.

I also think that in these times, women are very nervous about who they see as men in the ladies restrooms.

This is probably not what you wanted to hear, but since you asked the question, this has been my experience.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions

03-01-2022, 03:17 AM

I do not think anything about it and do not care.

As far as OTHERS I witnessed something horrible .I remember a event out ( girls night out for cders ) there was very much a kerfuffle when a some of cders went to the restroom together and alarmed the other guests causing a big scene. A big damper for those involved.

As far as when Sherlyn and I went out , I felt it was only safe for her to use the womans, but she was in and out and did not talk or act like it in itself as a social event ( like I have read cders feeling they had to interact with women in there)
Like the above question men commenting on strangers clothing. Women have to have their guard up from previous experiences in life many ( most) have had with men.
So if read as a man, I think many woman will have their defenses up, not understand and feel threatened. There is just no understanding , as it is not something they have in their life and only see it as a threat .
I think the closeted aspect of a crossdressers life keeping a hidden life does not help the matter.

About the friend transitioning . They are a woman and should be treated as such and the work place might need to educate. Totally not acceptable to be treated otherwise.

ellbee

03-01-2022, 07:10 PM

Hi, thank you both for the replies so far! :)

I do have another follow-up question ( :D ), but first, I'd like to publicly clarify something...

Apparently the M2F transitioner has been using a small, private, rarely-used restroom in another part of the building. I have no idea if it's men's (doubt it), women's or unisex. I also have no idea whose idea it was -- as it could have been the individual's request/choice (perhaps foreseeing the reaction from some of their GG co-workers? :strugglin ). I'm not familiar with the organization's LGBT policies, but they are a large US employer... No doubt they do have a decent one in place.

I was also curious as to *why* these GG's felt this way -- Is it because of what some have already mentioned, at a general level? Or, is it more individual-specific, as from I understand, this person wasn't exactly the most-liked as a male, even to the point of being considered by some GG's as giving off a bit of a "weird/creepy" vibe?

Sounds like a mix of both, which is what I suspected. ;)

Anyway...

Time for the last follow-up question! :yippee:

Do you think certain variables may sway some GG's one way or another, as it pertains to the whole "CD'er in the women's room" thingy? :thinking:

For example, take two CD'ers... One is pretty legit looking, on all kind of levels. Femininely fit & trim, 5'7", dressed like a lot of GG's for that time & place, pretty face, seemingly respectful & conscientious, with a femmy build, movement & aura. Heck, if it weren't for that last glance, maybe you (the GG) wouldn't have even realized it was a CD'er!

The other CD'er? 6'3", 265 pounds, built like a linebacker, clearly-visible chest hair sticking out from their top, horrible wig & make-up job, outfit totally out of place, barging in & lumbering around like a big male oaf who really needs to use the restroom.

Perhaps some GG's would be more apt to accept the first CD'er, over the second?

Thanks again! :wave2:

char GG

03-02-2022, 12:44 AM

I could not speak for what other GG's will or won't accept so I won't even try.

Edit: Most likely, other friends have shared a public restroom with a CDer at some point but didn't care enough to comment. Honestly, I rarely see a CDer in public much less the restrooms. The examples I relayed were the ones women did talk about or I witnessed.

CDers and what they do and where they go, are just not a topic that comes up in day to day conversations.

One more point to add to Reine and Di's suggestions, never take your phone out and take pictures of yourself or anything else in there.

ReineD

03-02-2022, 01:08 AM

I don’t mind CDers using women’s bathrooms, as long as they’re in there just to relieve themselves and wash their hands. I understand not wanting to be dressed in men’s bathrooms. I’ve been in all-gender bathrooms where everyone does their business in private cubicles and washes their hands in a common area. No big deal.

I do however object to CDers using the female facilities for kicks, or as they put it, "for a female bonding experience". I’ve read this fantasy many times here. These people seem to get some sort of thrill out of having "girlie" contact with other women using the bathroom, i.e. they imagine complimenting someone’s shade of lipstick (if anyone even puts on lipstick anymore lol), or shoes, etc. Public bathrooms are utilitarian, just like the men’s room. They are not girlie bonding places. I’d be creeped out if I saw a CDer in a public bathroom eyeing me and wanting to start a conversation, or even just dawdling in there. But if he simply did what he had to do, washed his hands and left, like the rest of us, I would not have an issue with it.

As to other GG attitudes, it has never come up as a topic of conversation with my friends. You’d be surprised at how below-the-radar the topic of CDers in women’s bathrooms is, given the very small percentage of MtFs out there (compared to the general population). Some GGs would be OK with it, and others not. We seem to be going backwards in this country with acceptance of LGBTQ and I’m not surprised you’ve encountered negativity.

Your follow up questions:

I was also curious as to *why* these GG's felt this way -- Is it because of what some have already mentioned, at a general level? Or, is it more individual-specific, as from I understand, this person wasn't exactly the most-liked as a male, even to the point of being considered by some GG's as giving off a bit of a "weird/creepy" vibe?

If a GG doesn’t like the coworker as a male, then she won’t like him more if he is crossdressed in the bathroom, or even out in the general office for that matter. This has nothing to do with whether or not this GG is accepting of the LGBT community. And as mentioned above, some people are OK with alternative lifestyles and others are not. There’s no magic formula to determine who will be OK/not OK with it or what percentage of the population is OK/not OK with it, since attitudes are formed depending on political geographic areas, urban (more exposure to diversity) vs rural (less exposure) communities, population demographics such as age, education levels, socio-economic status, religious beliefs, etc.

Do you think certain variables may sway some GG's one way or another …
For example, take two CD'ers... One is pretty legit looking, …
The other … 6'3", 265 pounds, built like a linebacker, clearly-visible chest hair sticking out from their top, horrible wig & make-up job, outfit totally out of place, barging in & lumbering around like a big male oaf who really needs to use the restroom.

I doubt that anyone built like a linebacker as you describe will go out in the mainstream public, let alone go to a female bathroom. I’ve read countless posts here from members who dress strictly at home because they know they do not pass. They might go to a gay/alt club and I’m sure that if they used the female bathroom there, no one would object.

There are very few MtFs who can pass totally as female upon close inspection, and again, some GGs will be OK with it and others will not, depending on all the factors mentioned above.

03-02-2022, 04:35 AM

I care care less about CDers using the restroom and like I said Sher did . I do not care how they look.

Can not say what other GGs think.

I mentioned the event above because I witnessed it .
My guess they were doing the fantasy fem experience thing we read about here, doing their make up, talking to everyone & loitering. Just go in then wash your hands and leave like everyone else . Then no problem.

More than that like I said you feel red flags as it is not how women act in bathrooms and those not knowing about cding would feel threatened.

Miel GG

03-02-2022, 01:30 PM

I agree with the other GGs.

Personnaly I don't care about a CD or Trans using the women's restroom if he/she is acting like a true GG (and not a fantasized one).
But on a general level it is a very complicated question because sex and gender are complicated concepts too. I have yet to take a final position on the restroom question.

GGs are evolving in a binary world and are used to separate toilets. And maybe this separation will be necessary as long as men carry on acting like disrespectful persons, stalkers, predators... Toilets are usually a safe place for GGs. Don' forget that GGs will often clock CDs and a man is an intruder (and the fact they wear female attributes is more worrying than reassuring).

I think also that there are some differences (level of dysphoria) between a CD/transvestite and a person who is officially transitioning. One could be labelled as genderfluid and the other as transgender.

So if a straight guy wants to present as female from time to time but doesn't identify himself as female 90% of the time should he be allowed to use women's restroom ? My answer is probably no. He belongs to the male restroom because it is only a question of outfit. But, due to his external presentation, the male restroom isn't a safe place anymore for him. So using the Ladies' room is a short term answer to this safety problem. But I haven't seen yet a CD demanding a safe access to male restrooms while I have seen a lot complaining about the bad GGs who do not want them in their toilets. Why ?

Of course the problem is different with a transwoman who rejects her sex at birth. This person should have the right to access to the restroom of her choice. But again, in our binary world, this situation will induce fear on GGs' part.

Maybe the best would be for CDs/Trans to educate themselves on the behaviour of most GGs and on the behaviour they should adopt in order to not disturb or worry GGs, don't you think ?

My final point is that gender neutral toilets are probably the best solution. In my country there are few. We have 3 restroom's types (in the best case) : male, female and physically handicapped.

Also... My feminist friends are the only people I know talking about LGBT toilet access ! As for GGs they have their own problems to solve and we talk a lot about "potty parity".

Mary Loo

06-12-2022, 12:08 AM

Well, I want to get some GG feedback.

A couple of times this past week I awoke in the middle of the night to find my wife awake and on her phone and unable to sleep. The second occurrence, I asked what was keeping her up and she indicated it wasn’t something she wanted to discuss nor make me burdened with as well.

So fast forward to this morning and the subject of her concerns surfaced again in whatever context. She said it was her struggling with cross dressing in general and of course relative to me. She was reluctant to share for fear of how I might react to her comments.

Here goes : she is struggling with accepting cross dressing. She was trying to determine why it is bothering her so much and trying to explain to herself what it is that is making her upset. She is generally very accepting and has always seemed to understand a desire or want to cross dress. However, now she is angry that “man”kind has repressed and burdened women over the centuries and created clothing and standards that bind and prevent women from doing things that men could do. For example, you can’t run and be active and do a lot of things when in heels. Girdles and bras and corsets restrict movement and comfort to adhere to men’s vision of beauty and femininity. In other words women have been forced to adhere to men’s standards of beauty and femininity and have consequently been repressed and persecuted.

Essentially she is angry that cross dressers embrace these items that women were “forced” to wear and that she feels it is insulting and degrading. She likened it to white men wearing black face to “emulate” white people’s view of black people, not actual black people. In other words in her mind, when cross dresssers are trying to admire or pay homage to women with their emulation of “beauty” heels and pantyhose and bras and girdles and such, that instead they are adhering to the negative associated items that men forced on women and thus it is disrespectful.

I honestly do get it and understand her thoughts, and told her I don’t judge her for that opinion, but I want to ask if this is a common feeling amongst GGs and spouses of cross dresssers? I don’t know how to respond to her other than I can understand or respect her point of view, but it isn’t going to make me want to stop. In her mind, she wants me to think of these things every time I dress and to push a negative thought process to make me not want to cross dress anymore. She is currently struggling with herself to where she doesn’t want to be accepting, but at the same time loves me and wants to not be negative or controlling. She just wishes it would all just magically go away. She has tried to not put her foot down with me or say no to ANY cross dressing activity, but now is sort of wanting her feelings to be adhered to and is sort of leaning that way of being more upset with it than she has been in the past.

She has known about my cross dressing desires and activities since very early on in our 30+ year relationship, but only fairly recently have I started to “up my game” with a pair of heels and a wig and a few of my own clothes. It has been more of a open discussion of late and less unmentioned or infrequent.

Anyway, sorry if I haven’t expressed her thoughts coherently or clearly, but again, I just want to know if her opinions have been frequently expressed by other GGs and spouses in the FAB forum or such.

Thanks for reading.

char GG

06-12-2022, 09:35 PM

Your wife is just letting you know how she feels. It's only natural that it's on her mind a lot.

I don't know how old your wife is, but my experience was quite similar. Girls HAD to wear dresses/skirts from the time I was in kindergarten until my senior year in high school. In elementary school, the girls soon learned to wear shorts under their dresses. The boys would like to come behind us and throw our dresses up and yell, "it's dress up day". Swinging on the swings, playing on the monkey bars, sliding down the slides, and most of the playground equipment wasn't meant to be used while wearing a dress. At my grandparent's farm, if any girls had on a dress (which my mother made me wear), we couldn't climb the apple trees or play in the hayloft. Dresses were also required for winter. Most of us had to walk to school, so either snow pants or some other pants were required to avoid frozen legs by the time we got to school. For those of us, like your wife, who remember how limiting dresses can be for a child. Boys didn't have that limitation. Some of the early CDer boys might think it's all fun and games to hide in their room with a bra and panties taken from mom or sister's closet, but it was not fun for little girls to either be left out of outdoor fun or have to adapt (like wearing shorts/tights) under their dresses.

As we got older, many of us were teased by boys because sometimes a bra outline could be seen. Until pantyhose came along, garters dug into our legs when we sat on those wooden school chairs. I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

Personally, I had to take a stand at home and refuse to wear a dress when I saw an opportunity for more fun by wearing pants/shorts. Not all girls could get away with that during that era.

So, not to make this answer about me, but I sympathize and understand what your wife is saying. What I think she means is, she doesn't really understand the attraction you would have to women's clothes. You were not socialized as a girl (I assume), so to you may find CDing to be tantalizing and a bit risque to dress like a girl. But to some women, it's just curious as to why they would want to. In your case, your wife finds it "insulting and degrading". We don't really have to understand to accept that some men just have that proclivity to dress like a woman. Your wife is going to feel how she feels and there is nothing you can do but try to understand that her life growing up was not your life. My hubby got to do a lot of things as a child growing up, that I had to take a stand against the norms to be able to do as a girl.

Also, this may be a shock to some on this forum, but many girls were not and are still not interested in makeup and fashion. Some ladies think that stuff is frivolous and vain. I don't know anything about your wife, but she may possibly struggle with what she might feel is the narcissistic nature of CDing. Not to say that you are that way, however, if she has done any research, she may get that opinion of CDing in general.

I think that the only thing you can do is to listen to her. You can explain how YOU feel but you can't make her life experiences from the past any different. It's just a matter of understanding other's perspectives.

One more thing... I don't know how long your wife has known about your CDing. It sounds like a long time, but you said that you recently have "up'ed your game". You know her better than any of us, so only you can help her with her feelings. Sometimes our "demons" come to us during the night, when there are no other distractions. Your wife is as you said, "struggling". All you and do is keep the lines of communication and trust open.

Miel GG

06-13-2022, 01:41 PM

Char has already given a lot of relevant information.

It is not clear for me if your wife was struggling with your CDing before or after you started to "up your game", because buying a wig and heels can be a stressful signal for a wife. Were these purchases discussed together beforehand ? Did she have the opportunity to express her concerns about these purchases ? (I don't know the terms of the agreement about CDing between you two)

About your wife finding CDing offensive... These thoughts are fairly common among feminists who call out to men in general and to CDs/transwomen in particular about the stereotyped images of women and femininity that they (not all of them) enhance and perpetuate.
But you seemed to understand that point already Mary Loo.

I totally understand the feelings and thoughts of your wife, I was very upset when my hubby came out to me for that reason too, especially because I cannot understand why he stands for woman's rights on one hand and why he "emulates" a stereotyped woman from another time on the other hand. I guess your wife doesn't really want you to think about these things nor stop CDing, but it has been comforting for myself when, after a lot of discussion and exchanges, my hubby and I agreed on the fact that he was not trying to emulate a true GG but an archetypal female when CDing. I hope you and your wife will find a way to calm things down.

Mimi

06-14-2022, 05:24 PM

I definitely feel like many CDers are emulating the styles of the 1950s and 60s, and wish that women would still dress that way. It is degrading and insulting, especially when they imply that women who don't care about makeup and hair styles and stockings and high heels are somehow less feminine, and that the CDer is more feminine, or knows more about being a real woman. I think it is narcissistic to obsess about nails and hair styles. I don't feel at all flattered if someone says they are wearing a girdle or heels or a tight mini skirt as homage to how they think women should behave or dress. If they want to say that they like the vintage look, that's fine and a personal preference, but don't go saying that all women should still dress like Donna Reed. Don't expect us to thrill to your teenage fantasy of what the high school prom queen back in the 60s might have worn. If you want to go out in public dressed as a woman, then dress to blend in, not stand out.
,

Dutchess

06-15-2022, 11:04 PM

Id looked at this for awhile trying to find the words I wanted but Mimi said almost word for word what I wanted to say.. I agree with Char and Miel also..

If I had anything more to add it would be that I see CDing as a very masculine activity..no matter how some protest to the contrary I see them as emulating the type of woman that turns them on .....past or present ..... With that If eel that sometimes because most real women don't wear these things, then fine , the cd'ers will just BECOME what they want..so no room for me there or I get left behind for the obsession ... so you know,I'm certainly not going to be interested in such a scenario/person anymore.. I used to be able to deal with that but can't now for whatever reason.

So yeah males made up all the above clothing and if we don't want to look like that it feels/seems like/READS like alot of cd'ers would rather have a fake version of us.

PS To whom it may concern , women don't sit around and cry all the time either and I see that all OVER the forum..we just dont. If Your family drilled unemotional and hyper masculine into your head then fine, thats your family.. All the guys I've been with since 1975 were gentle and not afraid to show emotion . I've never been into cold uncaring men .

Mary Loo

06-15-2022, 11:32 PM

Thank you to Char, Miel, Mimi, and Dutchess for your replies and the GG perspective that I asked for. I truly do understand what each of your responses meant and that there was consistency amongst them and with my wife’s comments. Though her comments had caught me a little off guard at the time, they did make sense and your replies confirmed they were perfectly “normal”. I do agree that the members on here tend to live in our own fantasy worlds and a dose of reality and historical background can be very useful. Your feedback, as always, is invaluable.

It is helpful to be able to have this forum to discuss and learn the perspectives from all sides.

Thanks again!

ReineD

06-16-2022, 12:17 AM

Your wife is certainly not alone in thinking the way she does and I share her sentiments. After the "young woman" life phase has passed and her mate is secured, a woman does not need to wear clothes that show off her boobs, butt, and legs in order to have a meaningful life. :) In fact, dressing as if she is trolling for men will damage her career path. Unfortunately, this style of dress seems to be the focus of many if not most CDers. And so most wives simply ask themselves why their CDing husbands choose the styles they do.

Years ago, Helen Boyd (author of My Husband Betty) wrote one thing that I will never forget: she would make it a priority to teach her husband all about feminism, because it seemed that her husband relished gender inequality. I mention this to illustrate that your wife’s feelings are shared by many wives, including book authors.

Back to your situation: I can understand why your wife is upset if you have, as you say, upped your game. And judging by her remarks, I’m guessing that you like to dress in a style that is designed to please men? Your wife likely wonders why, and how far it will go. Even though she is generally accepting of LGBTQ, it is one thing to support individual expression and quite another to support a husband who behaves as if he wants to be a man-pleasing woman.

Might a compromise be that you continue to crossdress, but in styles similar to what your wife wears every day? I’m assuming she wears flat shoes and pants or jeans? You could find a cute pair of loafers, and women’s pants/jeans are indeed cut differently than men’s. As to breast forms, many women do not have, nor do they try to show-off if they do have, boobs that would cause a guy to have a double-take. Might you consider smaller breast forms and/or perhaps looser tops?

Good luck!

06-16-2022, 05:12 AM

I had limited time to post earlier but our wonderful GGs came through with flying colours.
I cannot add to their wise words as elegantly.

Wanted to add something that I agree with Dutchess about.
The CDs here that boast / complain how much more feminine they are than the wife because the cd wears stockings, heels, dresses, vintage nightie ect ect and the wife does not.
I would say nope I see masculine energy/ dressing in what turns you on only. I also feel bad for the wife.
Back to the OP I see from other posts of yours you understand and have empathy for your wifes feelings and feel you will talk it out . I think your upping the game scared her and is worried/ confused how far will this go and does he want to attract men. It can be scary and confusing.
Best wishes

kimdl93

06-13-2023, 03:05 PM

Darn, its been quiet here for a while. I have a question, with just a bit of context. I have quite a few GG friends who have known about me for years and continue to be immensely supportive and encouraging. Why does it seem that women are more likely to be supportive? (This question is not with respect to significant others?that is a whole other kettle of fish)

char GG

06-13-2023, 04:03 PM

I will generalize here. This thought process does not pertain to all GG's or all men.

Most GG's, that I know, have a "live and let live" attitude. Most guys, that I know, seem to have a "men should act like men" attitude. (Even though all men and women act different from each other.) You might know more about why men act like that than I do.

Just my opinion, but it seems that back when my children were in school, moms came in contact with a variety of quirks that children display. The men usually were not that involved and did not seem to be interested in children other than their own. I just think women get more used to non-standard behavior.

I also think that many men don't want to be supportive of men who wear women's clothes for fear of criticized by other men.

06-13-2023, 04:54 PM

.

I also think that many men don't want to be supportive of men who wear women's clothes for fear of criticized by other men.

Agree with the above statement..it is men insecurities IMO and how men are raised.
Closed-minded people put their ego ahead of the outcome. They refrain from inquiring and instead focus on disproving others without attempting to comprehend .
They were raised told it is not what a man/ boy would do and they ( many ) do not question it.

Of course can be men or women but I find often it is more men like that. Things being black and white.

Dutchess

06-13-2023, 08:41 PM

Because most women are nurturers .. either born that way , raised up that way or a mix of all . I think most of us are born with that - kids or no kids .. it was our role biologically since time began .. and even as civilized as we all are today , its still in there .
Now of course men and women feel free -er to be that way or not be that way but for this post ...

I looked up that word in the Cambridge dictionary and it says :to take care of, feed, and protect someone or something, especially young children or plants, and help him, her, or it to develop: May 31, 2023

That built in nurturing thing that most of us have translates away from our kids and so's and extends to others as well . Our friends , relatives and people we see that we sense need some sort of support/feel included .. I do it all the time .

ReineD

06-15-2023, 03:15 PM

Agree with the answers so far.

Also, there have been many studies reporting that women generally are more supportive of gay relationships than men, and that lesbian relationships are generally better tolerated than gay relationships, but relatively few studies have determined why this is, except the one in the link below.

According to that study, it’s a question of choosing the lesser evil. Women are generally suspicious of straight men who are strangers, because they are wary of being hit on. But this disappears if they know that the man is gay. And since many people assume that CDers are gay (or they are not like "straight men"), this attitude must also extend to CDers?

www.psychologicalscience.org/publications/observer/obsonline/women-warm-up-faster-to-gay-men-than-straight-guys-study-suggests.htmly

Another reason, and this I have witnessed personally through my sons, is that younger men tend to avoid at all costs anything that would brand them as gay or as "lesser than". For example, you won’t find a male teenager willingly use a pink umbrella. And I think this extends to adulthood for many, although not all men. They wish to avoid any association with homosexuality, including the approval of it, for fear of being branded as such. Obviously this does not apply to women.

I also think that younger generations of men aren’t quite as homo/trans-phobic as their fathers’ generation. I’ve seen a wider acceptance of "queerness" among younger straight males, likely because the gender gap has narrowed considerably in the last few decades as most women are now in the workforce and most men share the household and child rearing responsibilities.

Miel GG

06-20-2023, 12:35 PM

Agree with the previous answers.

I will add that women are experiencing discrimination and inequality. That could lead to be helpful and supportive of those who are discriminated too. For example, a study concludes that women are more likely to hire gay persons ( https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10869-015-9412-y).

BustyOlivia

07-22-2023, 03:35 AM

Just curious how GGs feel about us given the current state of the world with drag queens and everything? Do we infringe on women?s place in the world? Forgive my ignorance please girls

char GG

07-22-2023, 05:24 AM

I do not feel that drag queens or CDers infringe on anything that pertains to me.

ReineD

07-24-2023, 12:10 AM

BustyOlivia, I’ve seen opinions here over the years from CDers who believe that women feel jealous or are threatened by CDers. Apparently some CDers believe that women see these CDers as competition. If this is what you mean by "infringe", then I can answer with a resounding no. I personally have never met a CDer whom I felt was competition for anything, let alone for the attention of any man that I might have been interested in.

I don’t believe that a guy who would be attracted to me would also be attracted to any CDer - guys can tell whether someone is a woman or a CDer when they talk to them for awhile. Men who want to be with women don’t tend to be attracted to CDers and men who are attracted to CDers don’t generally tend to be attracted to women … in my experience.

So, no competition there!

But if you mean something other than this when you say "infringe on a woman’s place in the world", them please elaborate.

07-24-2023, 06:06 AM

Infringe no
Live and let live .
It is disturbing how people that do not understand others do a gang up hate campaign.
Like to say more but rules .
It is really sad , scary and disturbing.

Miel GG

07-28-2023, 05:33 PM

Like Reine, I am not sure about the subject of your question. Can you give me some context before I answer ?

Bea_

09-20-2023, 11:35 AM

I am a mature man with a gray beard and a full head of silver shoulder length hair. usually pulled into a ponytail. Imagine a throwback conservative hippy. I am a straight, monogamous husband and have no desire to ?attract? anyone other than my wife. I have the natural desire for people to think well of me, especially women. But, I?m not looking for any kind of personal connection with anyone. If I ever were attracted to another person (other than my wife) to the point of an intimate relationship, it would definitely be a genetic female, but in 49 years of marriage, there's never been a desire for anyone else.

I don?t feel any inclination to hide the fact that I am a man and I love my beard. But, over the last twenty or so years, I have come to feel a need to balance a strong feminine aesthetic into my male presentation. Unfortunately, the presentation that I?m developing can easily cause assumptions for others that I am likely to be gay. Knowing for myself that I?m not gay would be enough for me, but I feel a deep sense of sympathy/empathy for my wife since any femininity that I?ve shown has been met with reluctant tolerance. I totally understand her position, but it?s become more and more of a barrier in our marriage.

My AI generated avatar gives a glimpse of how I see my ideal self. You have to imagine that image, but take away the idea of being fit and good looking. I have no delusions of being anything other than average in my male presentation and life experience supports that conclusion. My pronouns would be he/him/sir.

What I?d like from the GG?s is a sort of consensus of how you would feel and deal with a husband who presents male, but whose taste would likely cause him to be mistaken for gay when out and about. I know many here have SO?s who present female and I?m wondering if you?d be bothered by a hybrid presentation. I am also wondering if you would find yourself attracted to him as his ?feminine male? presentation evolved.

char GG

09-20-2023, 01:38 PM

I work with many young people at a concert venue, so I'm familiar with a blended mix of dressing styles, maybe more than the average person my age who doesn't go out much. I enjoy the eclectic look and style of blended presentations and it doesn't bother me in the least.

That said, my hubby does sometimes wear short shorts while working on an outdoor construction project during the hot weather. He doesn't wander around town in his construction short shorts. It doesn't bother me and I'm not making excuses for him to the neighbors. Some people may think he looks "gay" but I doubt anyone will comment to us about it. Everyone around here minds their own business so all is good.

As far as "attracted" so his feminine presentation..., it's kind of an odd question for me to answer. He didn't start CDing until he was in his 60's, so it was all new to me. I'm attracted to HIM as a person, but I'm not attracted to his "female presentation", but I don't mind his female presentation - two different things.

Dutchess

09-20-2023, 03:16 PM

One of the things I repeat the most here is how I loved androgynous men and still do . When I was with my 2 tg/cders I thought thats what I was getting but I learned that my love of androgynous males is totally different from men who imagine that they are women .
The latter of which I am just not on the same page with if I am honest .

I love that stylish , upscale , fancy , genteel masculinity .. who cares if people think you are gay straight or bi ?? Its not going to change anything and you can't really change masses of people's thoughts ..
So many here on the forum are incredibly homophobic ( not saying you at all ) . They cant wait to go to Pride events , want people to accept them in all sorts of female/flamboyant wear/makeup/behavior but OMG if anyone thinks I am gay !!! Not everyone here is nearly as straight as they shout out .

So don't worry about that . Let that go . You will always have to somewhat deal with people seeing you and wondering about your sexuality . People are curious . Most will never say a thing .

Yes I do like men who mix it up but do not lose who they are or claim to have an alter ego/personality/hidden person inside - as that is terrifying to me .
I don't know what your life has been like or what you like .. but google pics of Marc Bolan , Prince , David Johanssen in the 70s , Aaron Tichenor , I even find Marilyn Manson absolutely beautiful when hes all done up, Steven Tyler , I could go on ..
None of these men I have listed ever saw themselves as anything but men .. like you .
We all know David B so no going there but the rest of these men absolutely .. look at the clothing , the shoes , the colors .. all of it .

I am a laurel canyon hippy gal just like you .. although I live around here but I get where you are coming from . A hybrid guy like that would fit me very well . The avatar looks normal to me actually .

09-20-2023, 04:32 PM

I was disturbed about the
mistaken for gay
Seriously people still dont get sexual orientation or wearing clothing Of choice confused right?
If you were so what would only matter to your wife…..and you are not

I agree many in high school, college explore with clothing so I do not see it out of the norm.
Think the look is really good .
But most importantly is your wife and you being n the same page.No one else really matters.

Anyways
I like that look reminds me how Sher looked when playing gigs .
Her total Sher, her hybrid or guymode They all all her and I loved all of it.
Loved her - could care less about the clothes.

Bea_

09-21-2023, 12:44 AM

As far as "attracted" so his feminine presentation..., it's kind of an odd question for me to answer. He didn't start CDing until he was in his 60's, so it was all new to me. I'm attracted to HIM as a person, but I'm not attracted to his "female presentation", but I don't mind his female presentation - two different things.

I started dressing in my mid-fifties.

I don't have a female presentation, but feel that my evolving feminine male presentation is a more complete "me".

. I love that stylish , upscale , fancy , genteel masculinity .. who cares if people think you are gay straight or bi ?? Its not going to change anything and you can't really change masses of people's thoughts .. So many here on the forum are incredibly homophobic ( not saying you at all ) . They cant wait to go to Pride events , want people to accept them in all sorts of female/flamboyant wear/makeup/behavior but OMG if anyone thinks I am gay !!! Not everyone here is nearly as straight as they shout out .

I was a skinny young man with little body hair. I think I could have shaved my mustache and gone back to high school at 25. I got hit on buy guys 2 or 3 times in my early days and became defensive about anyone thinking I was gay. I had limited success in appearing "not gay" from various episodes over the years. I would do or say things that seemed perfectly normal to me and get a quick second look that let me know I'd broken some rule. I've never really known the "man rules". So yeah, I worried about the label and avoided letting people see me. I became invisible and kept to myself. Even then I'd get some hurtful little jabs at home.

Now, I look back and realize that some would mistake me for gay even when I avoided anything that anyone might associate with "gay". I am at a point where other's opinions just don't matter as much, other than my wife's and family's. I actually feel more "manly" owning my taste rather than hiding it, but it does cause issues at home.

Di,
"mistaken for gay"

I have come to be more comfortable with having others assume that I might be gay in more recent years. But yes, people have mis-taken me for gay more than once in my life. Those assumptions bother me less than the fact that they bother my wife so much.

---

Thank you all for your replies. There were no real surprises since I've seen many of your responses in the past. I appreciate the support and the GG perspective you all give here on the forum.

Miel GG

09-21-2023, 05:11 PM

Hybrid mode is more and more common among young persons and I like that ! Contrarily to many GGs here I haven't seen my husband dressed to the nines but I recently met him in MIAD mode. I am definitely more at ease with non binary dressing in the case of my partner. However, my husband doesn't feel the need to crossdress regularly nor to go out, both things which can bother a wife and have negative effect on her acceptance if, as in your case or mine, the crossdressing came late in your matrimonial life.

And for me, your avatar only shows a person with a non conventional presentation. Not extreme to me.

ReineD

09-22-2023, 06:38 PM

My SO also has long gray hair tied at the nape. His face and body look male and I think he is very attractive. I do love my SO even when he presents female, but the sexual attraction just isn’t there when he is dressed. I am not at all sexually attracted to anything that gives off feminine cues. For background, when my SO presents female it is not hybrid. He wears breast forms, hip pads, makeup, jewelry, heels, etc. Side note, I also am part of the generation that didn’t consider the length of someone’s hair as particularly feminine or masculine. Most of the guys in my teens had long hair.

Whether or not a wife would be embarrassed over her husband wearing pink and pearls would depend on where they live and what her particular tastes are in clothing? I should think that it would be much easier going out with a "soft" male when living in a progressive, urban area than in a more conservative, smaller town, especially if a majority of local folks consider themselves "religious". As to the style of clothing, I personally would not wear pink, pearls, & lace, so it is difficult for me to find that attractive on someone else, whether male or female. It’s just too outdated.

So because my SO looks male, if he didn’t put on makeup and body forms and he just wore dresses, traditionally feminine jewelry, and distinctively female shoes, I think that we would attract a lot more stares from people. He would no longer "blend in" while at the periphery of someone’s notice. I have no idea if they would think of him as gay or not and this doesn’t matter to me, but I don’t like being stared at as if we were some sort of side show.

Also, sad to say that what can look hip and attractively edgy on a younger person doesn’t necessarily scale well into middle-age and past middle aged years. I don’t know why younger folks can get away with alternative looks much better than older folks.

Bea_

09-24-2023, 08:35 AM

this particular conversation is just making things harder for me. I am sorry for bothering you.

audreyinalbany

10-09-2023, 08:21 AM

Okay..new question for the GG's here...First, the short version....I first started dressing as a preschool kid...the usual getting into Mom's drawers, trying on her stuff. The urged pretty much disappeared until after I got marries and there were women't things around all the time and I gradually escalated. Wife was aware but not supportive. I've gradually increased from lingerie to full on presentation and occasionally going out. She's okay with me spending a few days out of town to indulge my desires, but she still "Doesn't want to see it." We are currently both seeing a therapist (separately at this point) to figure out how to proceed. I want to spend time with her en femme and she is hesitant, although (bless her heart) trying. We are married 42 years and although we were never overly active sexually, our marriage has been essentially sexless for the majority of our life together. Nevertheless we truly love each other and I think that if we're not going to share physical intimacy perhaps we can share this kind of psychological intimacy.

That's kind of the long way to get to my question which is: Why is it so difficult to 'see it." I mean essentially there is so much about life together that we 'don't want to see." We don't want to see each other getting old and wrinkled. We don't want to see our loved ones suffering or ill. We don't want to see our beloved children move away.We don't want to see our country dissolve into chaos. We don't want to see so many of the things that life brings. and yet we accept these things. So why is my crossdressing so different? I understand it may be awkward or uncomfortable. But as they say, stress is the thing that makes things grow. know there are no 'answers' here, but I'd appreciate your thoughts...

char GG

10-09-2023, 10:08 AM

I am assuming that you have already discussed this with your wife and therapist. My guess without knowing either if you is that she is uncomfortable or dislikes how you present as a woman. For instance, are you trying to look too sexy or look like a woman from the real world. How about makeup? Is it subtle or overdone. (My hubby has a friend whose eye makeup is so blue, it is hard to look at her). Short answer, she will have to answer but ask her some specific questions. She may never want to see you as a woman. Do not force the issue.

We are married 42 years and although we were never overly active sexually, our marriage has been essentially sexless for the majority of our life together.

I'm not really sure how this statement is relevant to your post asking why she doesn't want to see you.

audreyinalbany

10-09-2023, 12:18 PM

point well taken, Char...presentation is classic 'soccer mom.' Leggings, cotton tops or sweaters, occasionally tasteful skirts or dresses. "sexy' is not a thing for me. Makeup likewise pretty minimal....just understated everyday look

10-09-2023, 05:48 PM

Why is it so difficult to 'see it." I

Only she would know that for sure .
Why not ask her?

Could it be ( did not go look at previous posts)
She was left out of knowing about your cding maybe ..wants only to see you as the guy she fell in love with.

But you had since being a child to come to terms with it .( many decades)
How long has she known?
How did she find out?
Depending on that answer ?.feeling betrayed, lied to might be part of it.
For many that is the hardest part to get over ( lies)
If you cannot talk to her THEN work though this with the therapist.
We just are guessing we do not know either of you.

Please do not pressure her to be enfemme with her.
Let her go at her own pace . If she never wants to see you thats fine . Its your thing not hers.
If she decides to …..great if not ….so be it.
Sounds like she is trying and that is wonderful and sounds like she appreciates you being you ( time to dress ect) let her be who she is.
Sounds like you love each other very much please just do not pressure her she will find what works for her.

Miel GG

10-12-2023, 05:22 AM

There is a lot that we have to face all life long. But I think there is a huge difference between things we cannot change (like aging) and things we can control in some way (like accepting to meet a husband "en femme"). Your wife has already made some adjustments regarding your CDing along your marital life, for your benefit (from my POV, allowing you to spend CDing time out of town IS being supportive). Even if your desire to present female to her is legit, you need to accept that she has her own limitations. Maybe she will never be ready to see you. And only she can tell her motivations to refuse...

I don't want to see my husband dressed to the nines and I don't know if I will ever change (FWIW he came out late in marriage, the hard part was broken trust). However, I have recently offered him the opportunity to present in MIAD to me. This middle ground is working for us. Each couple needs to work together in order to find a balance about CDing. Nobody should be hurt.

ReineD

10-14-2023, 10:27 AM

To address your examples of things that most of us are forced to accept, we all age and get wrinkles eventually. A great many of us have indeed seen loved ones suffer or get ill. Most parents do see their adult children move away and start their own lives. We all are witnessing the political dysfunction in our country right now. None of these things are rare, unknown, or little understood.

But, less than 1% of males enjoy wearing women’s clothes and because it is rare and for the most part kept hidden when it does happen, it is not something that is easily understood. The crossdressing is something that has been the butt of jokes among people from your generation. Or, it is seen as a weakness or some sort of fetish. Your wife grew up in a generation where men were men and women were women.

If you were both in your 20s or 30s, it might be easier to come to a compromise with your wife, but you are battling a lifetime of your wife having witnessed media prejudice against the CDing, even though some young people today do seem to better accept gender bending.

The best suggestion I have, until or if your wife ever has a change of heart, is to accept the fact that she does not want to be involved just as she needs to accept that you need time and space to wear women’s clothes occasionally. Try to not put pressure on her. You would not like it if she put pressure on you to stop.

Lori31

10-16-2023, 08:47 PM

I know women have many different types of underwear, some sexier than others. i am curious about sleeping? I was wondering if women take off their underwear when they go to sleep? I know it varies with men, some do some don't. I can't imaging a thong would be comfortable to sleep in.

Dutchess

10-16-2023, 09:17 PM

I have not worn panties on my personal time since 1981 Only at work !! I work in adult entertainment . Even then they are only on as long as I am literally forced too and then they are a part of my "Uniform" lol !

If I slept in any pair I would be asking for a mega UTI from the next universe.. or worse .
I have had kids , husbands and bfs and I like being free .. not everyone will be like me but I am very willowy as a runner so I dont need shapewear so I can get away with it .. underwear is just too hot and confining . Too much material . Even a thong . When I swim I wear board shorts and a bikini top .

They are worse than a bra for me .

The other ladies may have different answers .

char GG

10-17-2023, 10:11 AM

I do not sleep in underwear.

10-17-2023, 02:45 PM

Never sleep in underwear

ConflictedWife

10-17-2023, 04:40 PM

I sleep in the nude, I am much more comfortable that way.

Miel GG

10-17-2023, 06:16 PM

Sleeping is about comfort. And comfort is better without underwear.

ReineD

11-10-2023, 06:36 AM

I don't pander to posts that fuel fantasies, and so I won't indulge you with an answer. Besides, how should I know or even care what my female acquaintances sleep in.

confused_cathreen

11-14-2023, 07:13 AM

Why is it so difficult to 'see it." I mean essentially there is so much about life together that we 'don't want to see." We don't want to see each other getting old and wrinkled. We don't want to see our loved ones suffering or ill. We don't want to see our beloved children move away.We don't want to see our country dissolve into chaos. We don't want to see so many of the things that life brings. and yet we accept these things. So why is my crossdressing so different? I understand it may be awkward or uncomfortable. But as they say, stress is the thing that makes things grow. know there are no 'answers' here, but I'd appreciate your thoughts...

Short answer: Because everything you mentioned is inevitable. Seeing your husband dressed as a woman? Very much avoidable. And she has her limits, which you'll do well to remember and respect. She is already going above and beyond, unless she was secretly wishing you were a crossdresser. Which I am guessing is not the case...