My mom told me about my fathers crossdressing. (How) do I bring this up with him?

[Curiousdaughter]

Hi there all!

I am a Dutch female (so bear with me if I make any grammar mistakes); I am 30 years old. I have a great relationship with both my mom and dad. Both my mom and dad are quite artistic/love designer clothes/art/furniture. My dad is 73 now and my mom is 70. A few weeks ago, I watched a documentary about crossdressing with my mother by coincidence. After the documentary, my mom and I talked a bit about gender. All the sudden, I asked her: does my dad ever wear female clothes? It was kind of an out of the blue question, and my mother's reaction was hesitation. So I said to her straight away: I guess he does, since you' not answering my question. Then she told me that my dad wears female clothes for over almost 40 years now. He does it when he is alone with her; and she is totally accepting and loving his way of expressing himself. She also told me that some of their friends 'caught' him wearing female clothes, so they know. She also said that they really tried to hide it from me and my brother, because they don't know what the fact of him enjoying wearing female clothes will do with the image we have of him as a father. My brother is quite conservative. I'm not. So my mother was really in doubt if she should tell my brother as well, since I now know this "secret". I told her that it is a very personal thing for my father, and that there is no such thing as the 'right? to know a secret, just because the other kid knows. Anyhow; the thing for me is: my mother told me that my father is the most emphatic, relaxed, reflective character when he wears his female clothes, (way) different than when he wears his male clothes. My mother has told me this, but she doesnt have the nerves to tell my father that I know. Because he doesn't want me to know. How do I deal with this? Are there any one of you out there who talked about this with their childer? Or maybe that your child started the discussion? What whould you do, if you where me? Should I leave it as it is? My deepest desire now is to let my father know that I am completely proud of him and that I admire him for finding his true style and ways of expressing himself. But I guess he would feel very vunerable if I came up with the topic. Still, I have this strong feeling that I want to let him know that it is all okay and that he can wear the clothes when I am around (my mother told me that they had quite a few occasions where I came trough the door and my father rushed upstairs to change - I really would like for him to not feel that stress when I am around). So yeah, I would love to hear from people who shared with their children, or who didn't and why, and what you would like if you where in my dads faboulus high heels right now. Thanks for reading and a lot of love!

[Tracii G]

No reason that you have to tell him.
Just be his daughter and leave it be.Treat him as you always have.
You really aren't doing it to let him know you accept him you are doing it to make yourself feel better.
Sit back and think is your desire to tell him going to actually do any good for him?
Maybe him knowing you know will change everything between you from here on out and make things worse in his mind.
Is that what you want? Kind of selfish of you don't you think?

[Micki_Finn]

You absolutely positively do NOT bring this up. Your mother betrayed his trust by telling you, and you’re throwing her under a bus by letting the cat out of the bag. Maybe sit them both down and tell them that you’re a crossdresser. Maybe your dad will be induced to come out to you, but if not, that’s his secret to keep.
Outing someone against their will is never ok.

[char GG]

Welcome to the forum,

My grown daughter knows about her dad's cding and is fine, totally accepting. My grown son is handicapped and lives next door. He saw his dad leave the house dressed and doesn't like it. For him everything is black and white. He doesn't want to see his dad dressed like a woman.

As far as saying anything to your dad, just my opinion but I do not think you should say anything. If he ever brings it up to you on his own, then you could show your support. For whatever reason that he doesn't want you to know, I think you should respect his wishes.

I must add that I think you are a very kind and empathetic daughter. You sound like a joy. Thanks for joining the forum.

[Dutchess]

Hello ,
Over the years I have met so many people from Nl who crossdress . It is really amazing . Anyway , my ex husband is Dutch , from Zeeland . Our youngest daughter knew when she was 2 and she has known about it all of her life , she is 19 now . My older kids from another marriage were alot older and they were all ok with it. His older kids back in nl are iffy on the whole thing . It was just a regular part of life for us . Dutch guys culturally seem to be much more reserved, shy and even somewhat secretive than other cultures and even though we were both ok about it he has remained very shy with alot of guilt over it ( the shyness and the shame are one of the reasons we are no longer together ) . He hid this from his family and ex wife but I knew something was up right away .

Many of the Dutch CD 'ers I know are this way ( except Fiona of course lol ! ) . Take it easy and slow if you want to bring it up , he may be ok with your mom knowing but no one else . My ex husband refused to ever tell his family including older kids , to the point they thought it was my fault that he dressed and he was ok with that . I mean he refused to give them any info about this at all . They were all a very open minded liberal family too . We all are .
If your dad is shy or reserved you might just want to take some time to really think about it . I m sure he knows you are proud of him anyway .

[Aka_Donna]

I don't think you bring it up directly. What about indirectly? Look at 32 degree polo's. Look male but feel and touch is femine, he may start to feel freer if he hoped you might be open to discussion.

If you decide to bring it up, consider approaching from a side approach such as
-- I saw an interesting historical story about XYZ, and I thought you might have some insights into that shows recounting of history, is it at all accurate.....
-- Start a legacy discussion: what would you like future generations to know about you and what would you like us all to keep hidden?
-- Start a life lessons learned discussion: looking back what went well in family relations and training, and what would I be best to examine to avoid.
-- start a what I've loved about having you around.. but I hate that sometimes I fear you are afraid I would think poorly of you because of something,ie. things out of place, I sometimes feel I am breaking up a good time with mom and I feel bad {so hint know, but spelling it out, so can either way, well I do some times, or keep on burying it}.. then
be sure the final part is good affirmation about joys of life with him.

Hope this may help in some way. I need to bring up the discussion with my sons, and have put it off because of the difficulty, but time is running out and I need to say something...

[Brenda Freeman]

First so nice you have an open mind. My experience: My wife knows the rest of the family does not, I have two Boys well men they are grown. I would feel uncomfortable them knowing about me. I have cousins who are gay my boys grew up knowing their partners and went to their weddings they embrace them and their spouses as family they are very open minded and accepting. Still for me I just do not think they need to know as I have this image such as it is I am Dad. I am so glad my boys and even my dad and mom grew from the experiences of accepting and loving family and their spouses we have come so far. But do not assume your dad would want you to know because you have a loving open mind. he no doubt has a role in life he wishes to represent to his children. So tread light maybe thru conversation over time the door may open.

[Patience]

Why should you bring it up with him? Just because you know? If the dressing was revealed without your father's consent, your mother, rightly or wrongly, betrayed his confidence. Just because your mother couldn?t keep quiet, does that mean you can?t either? They say that daughters turn into their mothers.

Let sleeping dogs lie. You know what curiosity did to the cat.

[Stephanie47]

My wife has secrets. I have secrets. Our son and daughter know none of them. There is no reason for them to know. If either of us want our kids to know, then it is up to us individually to tell our own secrets, not the other's. At this point in time there is nothing you can do to undo what has happened. Now there are three who are party to dad's secret, and, two who share a different secret. Even if dad were to pass away tomorrow it is still not your secret to reveal. You need to take it to the grave with you.

[nvlady]

Don't say anything to him. This is his own personal business.

My two daughters are aware of me, but have never said anything about it, and I prefer it that way.

[Jodie_Lynn]

My mom told me about my fathers crossdressing. (How) do I bring this up with him?

You don't.

If your father wants to discuss it with you, he will bring it up.

Your Mother was out of order to mention it to you, it is not her right to share that information, without your Father's approval.

[TheHiddenMe]

I'm probably going to be the minority position here, but I will give you the answer from my perspective.

I have two sons, 26 and 23. I have not told them; however, they are reasonably bright and know that when dad does laundry there are panties hanging on the drying rack. But I'm pretty sure they wouldn't bring it up with me.

However, if they told me, I would be extremely happy to talk to them about it. Explain it was something that I wanted to do since I was a child, and it's something that gives me pleasure. If they were accepting, that would also tell me my wife and I raised tolerant kids.

I sometimes do favors for people and they ask me how they can repay me. I always say it's not necessary, but I'd love to be able to tell them I'd love a Sephora gift card.

So maybe for next Christmas your dad would like a necklace instead of something male. That tells him you accept him as he is. My wife knows I CD, and she's always asking me what I want. I never tell her girl stuff (although I have in the past), because by now she should know I would like something feminine (in private, of course). It's not just the gift; it's a sign that she accepts that it's a part of me.

You know your dad; we don't. Being a CD is often lonely. You don't have a large group to tell (I've been lucky; I've made GG friends and I can talk with them, because my wife doesn't really want to discuss things). He might welcome the opportunity to share things with you.

I'd probably ask your mom what she thinks. If she says no, there's your answer. But if she thinks it's ok, I would tell him you know.

[Gardener]

So wise and compassionate.

[Tracii G]

This is one of those situations where just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Think about him and how he might feel about it.
Personally I would tell Mom she shouldn't have told you without asking him first.

[wanabe-Leona]

Let me say first of all I don't think your Mom betrayed your dad. You just came up with the right question and put 2 and 2 together she might have said a little after but that was to ease you.
Like others have said you should not bring it up directly but let him know indirectly that what people do, does not bother you 1 way or another. WHAT HE DOES ON HIS OWN IS HIS. If I read between the lines correctly you are a very caring person and I'm sure he knows this.
Welcome to the forum and let us know the of the outcome .

[mbmeen12]

You can start to wear a; Pride pin and maybe, just maybe, he will pick up the no verbal... I wouldn't bring it up until your father does...

Thank you for coming to our site and love to hear more from you...

[Connie D50]

I have two daughter and they both know, however I was the one who told them. I understand to a degree why your mom told you. I think if your dad wanted you to know he would have (or will) told you. I'm going to guess you have always been proud of your dad and you can still be very proud without bring this up.

[Crissy 107]

Interesting post, as I was reading it I was thinking about what you should do. After reading the responses I have to agree with the majority and say to just leave it be. You may now pick up on things he does or things about him that you may have missed in the past.
I feel if he gives you an opening then say something but other then that just let it go.

[HelpMe,Rhonda]

A mother having trouble lying to a daughter doesn't sound like a betrayal to me.

My take is if my daughter came to me and said she knew and was accepting it'd be great, but not out to anyone in the family so it's not the same situation.

[DianeT]

Your mother betrayed his trust by telling you, and you’re throwing her under a bus by letting the cat out of the bag.
But if she wanted to not betray her husband's trust she had to lie in the face of her daughter. Asking someone to keep your secret can put her/him in impossible situations. Agree about - possibly - throwing her under the bus, but if the cat is out of the bag at some point the mother shouldn't feel guilty in my opinion, it was a very tough call as she was asked a direct question by her daughter. I don't have kids so I can't advise on the course to take.

[DianaPrince]

I would consider mentioning the documentary, and what you thought of it (without bringing your mom into it).

That leaves him an opening, if he wants to take it.

If he does, great. If he doesn’t, then let it drop.

[Nadia Wren]

If it has been a few weeks since you watched the documentary, you obviously have been investiagating on your own which led you here. There is a lot of good advice given.
My question is, what was the documentary? Was is about CD?s struggling or coping with it? Or some over the top RuPaulish slant on CDing?

[GretchenM]

There is an informal rule on this. Don't tell unless there is a need for them to know. Not everybody observes that, but many do. I suspect your father was of that mind. He is probably a little tormented by desiring people to know, but not telling because of the possible consequences such as the loss of friends and some family members that are important in his life. But like others, I have found the Dutch to generally be a very accepting people when it comes to "weird behavior." But, from your perspective regarding your father this is an assumption as you don't really know what he would prefer. So, it is probably best to assume he does not want you to know because he has not revealed this to you. So, for you, that means keeping his secret that, for you, is no secret now. It is important to respect his desires regarding this, even if it is an assumption that he does not want you to know. I suspect, in a perfect world, he wants you and everyone to know, but it is not a perfect world. So he remains closeted for safety sake and to avoid the terrible pain of revealing the truth to someone who he cares about and having them turn on him. I did that once and it was no fun. Lost a childhood friend.

However, you can show him in an indirect way that you accept the crossdressing behavior as being a personal choice. When opportunities arise, you can make those "Oh, and by the way" type of comments about it being acceptable to you with no reference to him, no little looks that communicate "I know your secret." Just show an acceptance of the behavior. He may come out to you and if he does don't point out that your mother told you as that could get her in trouble. Don't act terribly surprised as that could be read as phony. Just say something like, "So? You are still my father and I think of you as my father no matter what you are wearing. It is fine with me." There is no untruth there.

And welcome to the forum. I hope you can find a lot of things here that will further your understanding. There are other women here that you can share with and most of us who are CDers or transgender of some kind or other would be happy to communicate with you about experiences and feelings. You have already seen the evidence of that in the quick and numerous responses to your concerns. We are a pretty accepting bunch of people and a lot of us prefer communicating with women rather than men. I have been that way all my life.

[Jolene Robertson]

Being in a similar situation as your Dad, (my kids don't know). Now that your Mom has told you, I'll bet at some point she'll tell your Dad that you asked and she told you. So I'd just wait and see what happens. It's remained a secrete this long, no need to broach the subject yourself. I worry about how my daughters would view me if they knew. They both have friends who are gay and are ok with it but knowing it's their Dad might change things.

[Curiousdaughter]

Dear all,

Thank you for your toughtfull comments. I can see in each and every comment that you all respond with the deepest concerns for my fathers wellbeing in mind, and that really warms my heart. Thank you for that. I am very greatfull to read and learn from the different insiders perspectives. I also read some prim statements on my motivation to consider sharing with my dad or the way my mother handeled the situation after the documentary. I must say that I understand these comments very well; see my 2nd sentence. By stating these statements, you gave me the gift of reflecting more on my own motivations and my mothers role in the situation. But, because I was also taken back a bit at first, I would like to return the gift of reflection by inviting you to ask yourself the following: how come that you feel the need to judge instead of ask and guide, coming from a community where I assume a lot of people struggle with judgement and strive for a world where we don't judge each other upfront? I myself have some thoughts on this: you can identify many storylines as the main objective of my post. One story is that of a CD being outed whithout the knowledge of the CD'er. I can imagine that if you see this as the main objective of the story; you are reading something that resonates with a great fear for some, or maybe most, CD'ers. And from fear, harsh comments and judgements can be made. You really, really want to let me know how you feel about this; becaue you have strong feelings about this and it might hit close to home. So thats why you want to let me know that there is no doubt that my interest or my mothers way of handling this is wrong. - This is all assumption, ofcourse, I am not in your shoes. If anybody would be willing to share their thoughts on this, I would love to read that. It learns me more about all the facets of CD'ing and maybe the emotions and even fears that some experiencing coming with CD'ing.

That being said, for me the main objective, and the reason why I am looking for insiders perspectives, is the fact that my mother told me explicitly that my dad doesnt want to tell his kids because of fear of our response, and not out of autonomy. He doesnt see it as something that he does in secret because he likes the secretness of it, he does it in secret because of 'the others'. And to me, that is heartbreaking, I wish that we could all live in a world where we feel safe to express ourselves like we want. I would love for him to be free in exterior choices whem I am around. This is also because my mom told me that he wears the clothes with the friends who know; my Aunt gives him the most lovely designer clothes on his birthday which fit his taste. And also, my mom told me that he would hate it to take it in the grave with him. And what also really triggers me is the fact that my mom told me that he is so loving and kind in the clothes he likes; somewhere deep down I really have the urge to meet that side of him, because I think it can deepen our bond even further. Because yeah, my relationship with my dad is great, but he can also be out of touch with emotional subjects and I miss that I can discuss my deepest thoughts with him about topics I do share with my mum. Maybe I should have stated all this as well in my post; but yeah, there are always so many sides to a story, it would be a very long post if I posted all these details (and now this post is getting very long, ay).

As for the lessons your comments learned me so far, is the most valuable one that I will not share this myself with my dad at this point. I do must say that trough your comments, I have realised that there are a lot of openings to start the conversation. My dad never dressed specificaly cis, he is a hobbyist goldsmith and he makes the most beautiful earrings/earpieces/rings that he wears daily, and for as long as I can remember he dies the two nails of his pinkies red, also on workdays, sometimes other colours. As a kid, I gave my dad nailpolish for fathers day, and I remember my friends stating that that was weird, but I saw no weirdness in that. He also goes to the nailsalon for a couple of years now to get acrylic nails, not too long but slighty longer than how most men wear their nails. He also wears in our presence the most awesome silver platform boots, for example. So all of these things could be an opening to further exploration, but then agian, he already knows that I think that's awesome so nothing new there.

So, therefore I will not bring up the conversation myself, and also because I am very scared that he can see in my eyes that I know when I try to make significant smalltalk. For now, I would love to hear more on the topic from you if anybody feels like sharing more, and I think it will be wise to ask my mom to bring up with my dad that he, if he wants to, could share it with me because she thinks I can hande it or so.

[Di]

Very thoughtful caring daughter.
My hubby two grow daughters rejected him after the ex told them, but the ex wife did it for revenge.
My daughters totally supported my hubby.
As far as everyone saying your mom should not have told you.....that is because in this community it is just how it is both have to be in agreement on who knows. That is where everyone is coming from/ many CDs have had such rejection and heartbreak from family members so know that is where they are coming from.
But i do like the idea your mom clueing your dad in to you being receptive and maybe also she could say you would keep your dads secret.
Best Wishes I think it will work out for both of you.

Just to add everyone is giving their opinion from their personal experience.....you asked and they are helping the best they can from their perspective and real life .

[Curiousdaughter]

My question is, what was the documentary? Was is about CD?s struggling or coping with it? Or some over the top RuPaulish slant on CDing?

Hi Nadia, thanks for your kind words and your question. It was a beautiful human interest documentary about a crossdresser from the same part as the Netherlands where my parents are from, a region that is very proud of their own identity and is known for their hard labour and not sharing of emotions. This guy was actually a CD'er for the most of his life, and the makers of the film showed the struggle and route the man and his wife had of accepting each other. It was so beautiful to see the love between these people, coming from this little no-nonsense village, let's say not like Amsterdam and the steriotype that people have of The Netherlands at all. And the man came out now in public onder a new name as well. He was still judging at the local car races, in his new appeareance, and all the people there accepted him. My mother was so overly touched by the documentary, also because these people where from their home region, that it somehow just came to mind that this might be their story. And that's when I knew and accidently put her on the spot.

[Teresa]

CuriousDaughter,
I see this from two angles , some are saying your mother betrayed your father but somehow I feel she needed to tell someone , in that context it's wonderful she trusted you to understand . I feel the conversation should continue with your mother in her own time naturally , she may be really struggling inside to come to terms with the two sides of her husband .

He is also caught in a dilemma , and also try and understand how hard it is for him , he is obviously a strong person in male mode but needs to show another side which he may prefer to do for much longer than he does now , he's obvioulsy too concerned to tell you .

My own background is married for 45 years but separted two years ago , I came out to my wife in my forties but she didn't accept like ypour mother . My daughter knows by a silly accident and is perfectly OK with me in fact I've been out with her to shows and shopping I also go out with her with her daughter . My son know but has never seen me and my grandsons don't know at all as far as I know .

The point I'm making is when the lid is finally off the box the World doesn't fall apart , I did my bit as a husband and father so I'm still respected for that but now I have a different life which is working out OK .

There are two sides to this , if nothing is said will it be regreted later , think about what is the worse thing that can happen . OK it's more to do with your father's life than yours , to me the bottom line is how much happier would your father be if he was openly accepted ,? I know I'm a much better and happier person , OK I live alone now but I haven't lost my family or friends in fact I now have more friends .

[Tracii G]

I can see maybe having your Mom mention something to him about all of this but there is a main theme running all through all of what you wrote and that is YOU and what You want.
You seem to want to invade his "sanctuary" of dressing. Its the one thing he does for himself so why not respect that?
The reason so many of of the CDs here say to leave it alone is they are male and they have dealt with just this kind of thing for a lifetime.
Women on the other hand think differently they worry about where "they" fit in a situation with family,they cannot leave things alone.
Please don't get mad at what I say and its not a slam on you personally but what I said has been my experience in life of 67 years.
Basically its a mind your own business kind of thing and if he wants to share it with you he will of his own accord not by you forcing the matter.
I am just trying to get you to sit back and think thru all of this and not do something you might regret later.
The part of the world where you live makes no difference really progressive or not men are men the world over.

[Salley s]

well well well , as life would have it this is my story on this , i have been married 43 years with two kids , my wife is supporting not to just me but all in our group.
we talk about if we should tell the kids and we decided not , they have enough of there own stuff so don't burden them with our stuff unless we have to. in a heated issue with my daughter about things in the room , my lovely wife blurts out thats not all my stuff , you you know your dads a crossdresser. so my daughter
says duh do you think i am stupid. so a few days later my wife says did your daughter talk to you about the other day, i accidentally told her you were a crossdresser.
i said no , so i called her on the phone ( by the way she was 26 years old at the time) and said i hear mom through me under the bus and her comment was dad she didnt just throw you under the bus but she put you under the wheels. i said well what do you think , her answer was so what. she supports me and my group just like her mom, she gone to trans picnic , pride events , ect. she is a happy bubble , i ask her to go to event with me and her and she said / and go see a bunch of grown men in dresses , i am in. hopefully you can see my pitcher of how it happen and its result . not every ones will be the same but it can work out.

oh and one of the best things at xmas my wife always buys salley something special and so dose my daughter now , that makes dad a happy girl.

my response to you is if he doesn't know you know leave it alone he will still fill safe. my opinion and filling safe is golden, happy choice

[Aka_Donna]

This documentary sounds intriguing, is there any way people in the states could see it? is there a name, source or some way we could track it down?

Some have thought your mom went overboard by sharing, but in the context I think it would have been wrong for her not to share. Another approach would be to share your impression of the interesting show you watched with your dad and especially how it effected you, but do not put him on the spot. Just offer how you might think it would be interesting to talk to someone who shared some of the characteristics of the show focus people. Leave it open ended, do not ask him if he knows anyone you might talk to

[Nadia Wren]

Curiousdaughter, I could see how the documentary resonates with you and your Mom, but it is kinda like a closeted CD in male mode clocking another dresser in public and thinking that they should say something to them because they have a secret. I?m in the camp of let sleeping dogs lie.

[DianeT]

Just a two cents about the allusion made by some posters about a daughter possibly imposing something on her father that he doesn't wish. True, but also true the other way around: her father may want to but have concerns telling her about his secret in case she wouldn't want to know (Curiousdaughter mentioned his fearing of kids' response). This could go on for a while. Trying to untie the knot with the help of her mother like suggested here and there seems one way among others out of this deadlock situation.

[Laura912]

Must agree with Diane and others. No parent wants their child to be ashamed of them. Others, an aunt, for example, know of this aspect of your father. You and your mother have established a dialogue about the issue. Why not continue talking to your mother and tell her about your feelings and how you would like to share this with your father? Your family sounds like a caring group of people. Most likely your mother will talk to your father. Following that, he will be in control of what happens next. If he tells you, tell him you love him. And hug your mother. If he says nothing to you, then you have an answer, also.

[Aka_Donna]

Great advice Laura912

[AmandaM]

I'm going to go against the grain here. Your father is showing some traits of crossdressing to everyone. Nails, boots, etc. You don't have to tell him you know. Next time you are around him and he has painted nails, etc., you could wrap your arms around him and tell him you don't care how many feminine traits he has. If he makes a joke about it, or crossdressing, tell him, "why not, could be fun".

[Curiousdaughter]

I must say that all of your comments give me so many more input on what to do and how to relate to it, so I'm gratefull for all of your reactions. Laura912, your words summarize the words and intentions of others that respond in this tread so kindly and full of perspective for me, thank you for that. It really helps me. And AmandaM, in a way I would love to do that, but I don't think I can do that, for the weirdest reason: there is something about discussing forms of expression in my family that I never could really pinpoint and that I have accepted and put away, but are more in my mind now because of the fact that I know my dads outfit preferences. My dad always dressed very authentic; with the earrings and all the stuff I already summed up. But when I show forms of authenticity in my outfits, he can freeze up completely. I have for example 12 piercings, including a septum nose ring and a microdermal between my shoulder blades. Ofcourse nothing like CD'ing, but still, important to me and my identity. Whenever I have a new piercing, my dad doesn't talk to me for days. Eventhough I all got them as an adult and am very serious about aftercare, and also only have piercings that I can hide in public. That while he pierced his own ears with a hot needle. My mom sometimes made comments about his stubborn stance on this, saying: "You love to dress the way you do, but your children can't?" He then still doesnt say anything, just stares grumpy in the distance. I always thought this was because he himself is a bit of a butterfly outfitwise, and he doesnt want to have his children expierince the same discomfort he sometimes goes trough (he well damn knows his mother doesnt like his earrings and jewelry). And the funny thing is, by that stance, I always felt he treated me the same way his mother does to him. And now I know of his dressing preferences, I really am like: my dear father, can you pleeease tell me why you belittle my expression forms, when you damn well know how sad it is when you have to hide? Piercings are ofcourse not a big deal as CD is in our society, I get that, but this is wat his secret does to me and why I have some family/heritage/roots questions now. I also know that my dad was very scared to be a father, he just said 'Don't all dads have that?', and now I am really curious if the fact that he was so scared of bringing us in the world, also had something to do with his CD'ing. So while I get that a lot of people here state that this is about his life and his wellbeing, and I agree that it is about him primarily, it also does something with my life questions secondarely. And I would never say that I am entitled to some right to discuss this with him, but I would love to be able to.

[docrobbysherry]

I am in my 70's and have 2 daughters; 26 and 34. 7 years ago the younger one moved in with me full time. After nearly being "caught" by her a number of times. I began to dread crossdressing!:doh:

So, I told her, my other, older daughter, and my ex. Both who live out of state. The daughter who lived with me said it ruined her image of me. And, that she didn't want to see me dressed or to discuss it ever again! :sad:

She recently moved out but we r still close. Unfortunately, crossdressing and socializing with other dressers has become the focal point of my life. The fact that I can't discuss the joys of dressing, my T friends, and the odd, funny things that happen means I have to hide some of the best parts of my life from her. I find this heartbreaking every time I see her or we chat!:doh:

I keep hoping she will finally grow up enuff to send me a note saying she's ready to talk about my dressing if I ever want to discuss it sometime. She likes to dress up and look nice. Just as I do. We could be so much closer if she would let me!

If u want it? I assure u, all the negative, judgemental nonsense posted here; with the "she said", "he said"", and "shoulda woulda coulda's" means NOTHING if the 2 of u could just sit down and talk about it together like adults! I would LOVE that so much with my daughter!:hugs:

[kimdl93]

Hard question to answer for anyone else. I think you could ask your mom and respect her judgement, whichever way she advises. For myself, I appreciated being open with my step daughter, and not having to this part of myself from her. My other children know, but its an abstract and distant thing for them.

[Teresa]

CuriousDaughter,
From your last reply your father does have more going on and possibly needs to open up in some way . I don't want to appear harsh or outspoken but I see you are and adult woman in her early thirties but you are still being treated like a child in some respects .

I hope you don't mind me asking but do you still live at home , if you do is it possible to move out and give your father the space he obviously needs and also yourself . I'm not sure if age is also a concern but if he really does need to come out more the clock is ticking for him .

Your mother does appear to caught in the middle , she possibly needs your support especially as you father has also struggled with being a parent . He really is a closed book that needs opening up .

[Curiousdaughter]

Hey Sherry, thank you so much for your comment, I can feel your energy coming off the screen! Love to hear that some would actually like to share this with their kids. While I now really feel I have to explore the conversation more with my mother, I am delighted to hear in a way that some have the desire to share. In a way, from a selfish stance, I really would like him to share and trough this forum I am exploring why. Don't get me wrong, all dear people here, because I have that desire, that doesnt mean I would ever just upfront confront him.

Also, what crosses my mind now: the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Someone in this tread mentioned that daugthers are likely to grow up to be like their mothers, and while that was put in a bit of a vile way, I realise now that it might be true in a positive perspective: I have a boyfriend for some time now, and we love to do make-up on each other. We really take the time for it, pour a glass of wine and some nice snacks, listen to good music and beautify each other. I came up with that idea, just as a fun thing to do, and he was totally down for it and now requests it by himself. I would ofcouse never discuss my fathers secret with him, and I also don't tell my mother/parents about the make-up sessions we have, for the same reason that I dont tell my boyfriend about my father. But it does come to my mind that my BF might like more female stuff than make-up, now I know of my father. I am in no way, shape or form bringing this up with my BF because I feel we have a loving bond enough to tell me that if he wants to, but I do must say that when I am with him, I sometimes giggle inside and think: you have no idea how close it hits home for that I am now building a loving relationship with a man that likes make-up, since my mother does that for over 40 years now. But yeah, all of this does result in the fact that I am searching for clues if and how to take a role in these matters.

- - - Updated - - -

Hi there Teresa, I must say that I agree with the fact that it is to me so weird that we are a loving, open family in so many ways, but my father does completely shut down when it comes to self-expression. I live on myself, I moved out to study in another city and live in a student flat when I was 18; quite common here in The Netherlands. I now have my own house, car, dog, garden, the whole shabang and also do see myself as an adult. It also feels that for me, my parents transformed from my upbringers to my adult dialogue partners, but it might be that for them, their children never really transform in their eyes, because they where already adults when I was a child and therefore, I haven't changed much in their opinion (logically that they where adults, ofcourse, but I don't really know how to express it any other way in English, you might get what I mean). So yeah, I would love to build an adult relationship around mutual acceptation, and that is one of the motivations why I am exploring if and how to deal with this.

[HelpMe,Rhonda]

That being said, for me the main objective, and the reason why I am looking for insiders perspectives, is the fact that my mother told me explicitly that my dad doesnt want to tell his kids because of fear of our response, and not out of autonomy. He doesnt see it as something that he does in secret because he likes the secretness of it, he does it in secret because of 'the others'. And to me, that is heartbreaking, I wish that we could all live in a world where we feel safe to express ourselves like we want. I would love for him to be free in exterior choices whem I am around.

It would break my heart if later in life I found out I had a daughter who wanted to share this side of me and didn't because some people on the internet advised her not to. I'm closeted for the same reason your father is, sounds like.

[docrobbysherry]

U r obviously a smart and experienced woman, Curious. U know enuff to keep family secrets from your boyfriend and vice versa. However, I was a plain man for 50 years before I first tried on women's clothes. And, I can tell u this. When I first married my ex wife, we went to a big Halloween party. With her dressed as the man and me, a women. That made such little impact on me it wasn't until I had been crossdressing for 10 years that I even remembered that nite!:eek:

My point being? If u dressed up your boyfriend and it does nothing for him, he's simply a plain man. U can't turn him into a crossdresser by putting a dress on him!:battingeyelashes:

So, if you're not worried about him already being a CD? Putting him in women's clothes sounds like it could be a fun nite!:heehee:

[Teresa]

CuiousDaughter,
You have raised a good point , my wife has never let my daughter (41) and son (39) grow up , they are both married with children living in their own homes . My wife had heated arguments with my daughter because of her acceptance of me , the penny had finally dropped that they are entitled to make their own decisions as adults . It's sad to read you consider your relationship now as sparring with your parents , I guess being honest sparring more with your father .

I wonder if I'm lucky in wanting to be totally open and honest about being TG , I feel now it has worked out much better for everyone , OK it also took counselling help . Just to add a final comment I never got on with my father , he had the problem not me but we never discovered what it was , I just tried to be the opposite and it has worked out OK .

[Curiousdaughter]

Hi there Theresa,

So glad to read that you feel that everything worked out for you and your surroundings. And sorry, I now see that I chose 'sparring partner' wrong. In Dutch, sparring partner literally means someone where you can have good conversations with and share ideas with. And because it sounds so English, I thought it was the same in English. But because of your reaction I google'ed 'Sparring partner in English' and I see that it has a very agressive connotation in English. So that got lost in translation! We actually have a good relationship and I see them as equal, but they, as you pointed out, don't always see that the same way and my dad shows that in his disapprovals of my way of expressing myself trough piercings (not to even mention my brother's, in my opinion very nice, tattoo's).

- - - Updated - - -

Haha, Sherry, that might actually be fun indeed, CD'er or not! We might give that a go :D And now I think about it, my BF really likes wearing my glittery socks and he borrows one of my cardigans a lot (not the most female thing I own though, ghehe).

- - - Updated - - -

Also an interesting perspective, Rhonda. I do must say that the people who say: Don?t!, dont make me not want to explore any further. I think that the idea of discussing it further with my mom is a good one for now. And do you mean you didn't come out because of internet stories/reactions? That is very sad. It is an interesting way to do explorations via the net or forums; when you don't have developped your own stance yet, it can be a logical thing to one-on-one take on the stance of another person. That's why I like it so much to read so many perspectives here, it helps me form my own opinion. Thank you for sharing!

[Tracii G]

I see a little deeper into why this is bothering you but still from what you have written its all about you.
What you said about his reactions to your piercings solidifies my point saying all your problem now is you and you are making it all about you.
Things you have posted are centered around you and how you feel and what you want.
Why your Dad acted the way he did is his business and just to add I was scared to be a Dad the first time that is normal for a man because he is embarking on a strange new part of his life.It takes a man to admit that.
Just pointing out what I see in your writings.
Wouldn't it be easier to just let it go and stop harboring a little resentment against your Dad?

[SusieK]

Curiousdaughter, lots for you to think about from other replies. What I will suggest is that if you do bring this into the open don't add any extra bs on top. At the moment there are several overlapping secrets. Your dad is hiding this from you and doesn't know you know. Your mum is presumably keeping secret from him that you do now know. If you decide to open up the discussion, then with your mother's permission you (or your mum) should reveal how the subject came up. I don't agree with the option to manipulate a reveal by "accidentally" discussing gender issues, as that would still leave the secret between you and your mother.
Also, bear in mind that even if you bring this into the open and say that you are okay with it - it doesn't mean anything has to change. There would be no need to push for a fashion parade or shopping trip. It would just mean that there's no need for your dad to get stressed about it around you.
Good luck
Susie xxx

[Leslie Langford]

Curiousdaughter, I haven't seen this particular suggestion appear in the comments so far, but to me, the answer is patently obvious...

Your mother knows, you now know, and your father has been open about his crossdressing with your mother for years. Not only is she fully on board with it, she is also fully supportive. Yes, part of the reason for that may be selfish (it makes him a kinder, gentler, more empathetic and less "uptight" partner when dressed up, as well as more agreeable to be around), but either way, he can be comfortable around her and not feel ashamed or distressed about his unusual proclivities. Many of us here should be so lucky.

Like many others here, I, too, have grown children (a girl and a boy), and both are only slightly older than you. Unfortunately, my wife's attitude towards my crossdressing ranges from tolerance to hostility and we have continued to keep this "secret" under wraps as far as friends, family, and the world at large are concerned throughout our decades-long marriage. The only exception are my two children who found out on separate occasions about 10 years ago when my wife decided to impulsively "out" me to them to get back at me during two of the many nasty fights that we have had in the course of our marriage, and where my crossdressing was frequently thrown in my face. Luckily, my children are as accepting and as nonchalant about this whole crossdressing thing as you are, and they subsequently assured me that it made no difference in the way they regarded me as their father. The matter has not been brought up since, and life has proceeded as before. So yes, a kind of "don't ask, don't tell" situation with them as well, but at least they are in the know, and this revelation wouldn't have come as a major, unexpected shock to them if something happened to me now (think: unexpected death...secret female wardrobe suddenly discovered etc.). But the bottom line is - life didn't come to an end for either me or themselves as a result of this revelation, even if it was made under rather unfortunate circumstances at the time.

All that said - and drawing upon my own personal history - it would seem that the best, least risky course of action for you to take would be to have your mother drop strong hints to your father that the time may have come to reveal this side of him to you and your brother. After all, he is 73 years old now (I, myself, will be 72 shortly, so I can fully relate)), he can't expect to live forever, and does he really want to leave his children with the legacy that much of his life as presented to them was a lie, should they only find out after the fact? She doesn't have to tell him that you already know to avoid that possible embarrassment, but since you do, and since she already knows that you will react favourably when (if) he reveals this side of himself, she can proceed confidently with this gentle urging until he hopefully acquiesces, knowing full well that there will be a positive outcome.

Yes, a convoluted approach, perhaps, but as is often said here..."baby steps, baby steps!"...and one that will allow all parties to save face as the layers of this onion are slowly peeled away with no unpleasant surprises happening along the way.

[Jenny22]

Curiousdaughter..'to do or not to do, that is the (tough) question'. My thoughts... Help him to unload this heavy secret to you. When with him sometime, go to him, throw your arms around his neck and tell him how much you love him, and add something along the line of,"your ears are pierced so you can make and wear beautiful earrings with your beautiful necklaces, you love your (polished?) acrylic nails, and those silver platform boots are killers (add anything else feminine seen or observed), so I gotta ask you if you might also love to wear women's clothes to some extent. If you tell me yes, I want you to know how proud I am of you and would love to help you enjoy it in any way I can".

An approach like this protects your mom, and gives you good reason for asking about wearing women's clothes. If he says No, just say you had to ask, and give him a big 'love you' hug. I'd bet he comes clean with a sigh of relief. Good luck, whatever your choice is.

[HelpMe,Rhonda]

Also an interesting perspective, Rhonda. I do must say that the people who say: Don?t!, dont make me not want to explore any further. I think that the idea of discussing it further with my mom is a good one for now. And do you mean you didn't come out because of internet stories/reactions? That is very sad. It is an interesting way to do explorations via the net or forums; when you don't have developped your own stance yet, it can be a logical thing to one-on-one take on the stance of another person. That's why I like it so much to read so many perspectives here, it helps me form my own opinion. Thank you for sharing!

Ah, I typed it up wrong, have since edited it. But I agree with the talk it over with Mom crowd.

[AngelaYVR]

You know his secret and you still love and support your dad. I would tell him, explain it slipped out and that he has all your love. He most likely will be over the moon, partly from your acceptance and partly from the relief of not having to hide! To be unburdened of shame and worry is a wonderful gift.

My daughter (17 years old) knows, she told me it has deepened our bond. While not every situation is the same, I can see nothing negative from letting your dad know. Good luck!

[SaraLin]

I just want to comment on one thing you said.

You wrote:
I really am like: my dear father, can you pleeease tell me why you belittle my expression forms, when you damn well know how sad it is when you have to hide?

Here's my thought: Could his negative reactions be BECAUSE of his need to hide? Consider this: He's your dad. He loves you with all his heart, whether or not he can show it. He knows the pain, fear, and just plain suffering he has gone through in having and keeping his secret. It could well be that he fears that you will suffer the pain of rejection or ridicule as a result of your changes. He doesn't know how to express this to you, so he shuts down.

Here's why I say this: back in my first marriage, I was struggling with my own dressing issues. And then one day, my wife's little boy dug out and wore something of his mom's. Did I encourage him? Did I just ignore it, knowing it was probably just childhood playtime and curiosity? NO! I actively discouraged it. Yes, I too belittled it. Why, you ask? I acted out of my fear - and yes, love too. I didn't want him to follow the path I'd taken. I didn't want him feeling the self-loathing, the fear of being caught, all the stuff I was living. I wanted him to be "normal", happy, and fulfilled.

I know, I know. I was wrong. I admit that freely. Now. Back then (the 70's), I thought I was doing the right thing.
Turns out, I didn't have to worry. After a couple episodes, he lost interest and moved on to something else.

[April Rose]

"Perhaps no parent can truly see their child. When we look we see only the mirror of our own faults"
Madeline Miller "Circe"

To reinforce what SaraLin said, Men commonly express fear as anger. I've seen it in my life experience time after time. If I understand what you wrote correctly, your father got mad and brooded at your piercings but then eventually came back around. Especially in view of his own expression I think you are on good ground to let him know you know about his dressing. You may get barked at or frozen out for a while, but in the long run I think you will be doing your dad a service that he is not capable of doing himself.

I am about your dad's age and my son is about your age. I came out to him when he was 22. He told me he had known since he was 14. Now he is 32 and I have an ally. Not someone I have to hide from.

[suzanne]

I wouldn't bring it up directly, but I would wait patiently for the subject to come up again, as it did with your mother. If you see a CDer in public, or on TV, mention to him how nice that person looks in their outfit and how you admire their individuality, courage, fashion sense, taste, confidence, etc. Maybe go a little further and say how nice your husband, or boyfriend, would look in that dress and that it would not diminish him in your eyes in any way. He may not respond right away, but he would be well aware that he has nothing to fear from you.

[BrendaPDX]

Hi Salley,

I would use great caution, "mores? and ?folkways? can carry unprecedented cultural weight to some people. Do you really have to bring it up? If it has been a secret this long, maybe it has been for a reason. Good luck.

Sincerely,

Brenda

[jacques]

hello Curiousdaughter,
I you are accepting of your father's choice of clothing why would you need to 'bring it up'?
He is still the same person that he was before you discovered the 'secret'.
Just be supportive if ever the need arises.
luv J

[Michellebej]

I have four children.

My oldest is a daughter and she knows, and not only knows but actually engages with me full time with me as a woman. I have a son who knows, accepts but really doesn't want to see. I have another son who I suspect knows but doesn't want to know. My youngest is a daughter and she would be devastated if she found out.

My oldest lives near me. My other three live 3000 km away. I am a somewhat private person and I am fine with my youngest children not knowing. However; I have a very good relationship with my daughter. Better than her and her mother, in fact.

If I take what you say at face value about your father only being concerned about how YOU take his crossdressing, then perhaps you should talk to him.

If you and your Mom were absolutely sure that the only thing preventing him from telling you is his fear of rejections, then I think you should tell him you know.

How? Well, probably with your Mom present. It gives him somebody to back him up. So here are a couple of suggestions:

The first arrange "movie night" with him, or him and your Mom, but make sure it is just you guys. It may sound corny but watch "tootsie" or some other CD friendly movie. Then casually mention to him ( a little white lie to break the ice) that you saw him once in a dress ( ask your Mom the color of his favorite dress) and say something like "I though you looked adorable,but I did not want to surprise you. And I want you to know that you dont' have to hide this from me".

The second is to use a common interviewer technique ( I was a professional interviewer for a long time). Sit down with him in a private setting so that he knows no one else will hear what you have to say. The next thing you have to do is establish common ground. Bring along a dress that you can tell him you were thinking about wearing to a party or work gathering, ect. Ask him his opinion, letting him know that you think he has really good taste in clothing. Particularly female clothing. Mention a time when he picked something out for your Mom, or even you, that worked out really well. Perhaps mention how silly it is that only girls get to wear "pretty clothes". Then close with something like; " Daddy I've noticed that you have an interest in womens clothing and I think it's cute/fun. I would love to be able to talk to you about fashion. I once saw you wearing a dress a long time ago and I really wanted to hug you, but thought it might embarrass you. I don't want you to hide from me when I come home and find you in a dress. I'm your daughter and I love you. All of you.

Be careful, and do it with privacy, respect and love, and I think you will be all right.

[Rachelakld]

I love the fact all my daughters know.
I love the fact I just got some "hand me ups???" - mini skirt and jumper

I told my girls years ago, but if I hadn't......

If my girls knew my secret and wanted to express it to me, I would probably prefer a private chat over a coffee, probably in casual conversations about them "not minding cross dressers" my response would be "what makes you say that?" and they would probably reply "we noticed how good your finger nails look" or " I thought I saw some nice nail polish on you earlier".

(note: my wife and kids reckon my advice is always bad)

[Aunt Kelly]

I agree with Tracii. You do not have to engage your father on this, at all, if you would rather not. If you do, I'd suggest letting your mother make the overtures. She has his trust, and having that, will be much more able to broach the subject in a way that will minimize his anxiety. He may choose to remain DADT with you. He may not. Just understand that, ironically, he may not be as comfortable with you knowing as you are. :)

[giuseppina]

I wouldn't touch this one with a pole, Curiousdaughter.

Chances are non-negligible saying something will cause drama between your father and mother that doesn't have to happen. If anything, it's up to your mother to make the first move.

I'm wondering if your father was given something worse than a hard time when he was caught as described in your story.

[ellbee]

Curiousdaughter,

Welcome to the forum! :wave2:

And thanks for starting this thread. I suppose I'm a bit fashionably late to the party, but still felt the need to reply...


Let it be known that I don't have any kids. But if on the off-chance that I ever do? I *pray* they will be girls.

Though knowing my luck? They'll all be boys! :roflmao:


And I say this, only in the context of how I like to dress. In my mind, things would be *waaaay* easier with having daughters. Because if they were my sons, instead? A significant part of me would feel like I would have to really limit my dressing, for their own sake (whether rightly or wrongly, I may add).

Should I be lucky enough to have only girls? Then I'd simply start them young, so to speak... Meaning, I'd be wearing certain women's stuff on a regular basis in front of them, since the day they'd be born. That way, they'd be accustomed to seeing dad like that, that it's "normal," and they'd think nothing too much of it. Or at least that would be the plan.

I should note, that I wouldn't be doing the *full* transformation, with wigs, make-up, dresses, fake boobs, etc. -- except maybe on Halloween or playing dress-up with them on a bored rainy afternoon or something. On a regular basis, it would just be me, in "guy-mode," but wearing stuff like women's leggings, hoodies, basic tops, running shoes, etc. You know, pretty much how I typically dress now.


Of course, your situation is fairly different. But the reason I mentioned all that, is because it seems as though GG's (natal females) are way more likely to be at least "okay" with it all -- as opposed to natal males. And you certainly seem to fit this bill. :)

A number of your sentences really jumped out at me. I do think you're doing this for the right reasons, which is really cool. :thumbsup:

And if *I* were your father? Then yes, I'd definitely like to be able to share this part of me with you, without having to hide it... As long as there would be no negative things resulting from it. Only positive ones! :battingeyelashes:


Of course, *how* you get from Point A to Point B can potentially be a tricky one for you. Though definitely worth it, ultimately!

I believe the best approach, which has already been discussed, is having your mother be the intermediary, of sorts. You know, as the "go-between" for your father & yourself. Having her "drop hints" to him occasionally, maybe the next time he's dressed, her saying something nonchalantly to him like, "You know, I was just thinking... I don't feel as though Curiousdaughter would have any issue whatsoever with you wearing that. She's a total sweetheart like that, really open to lots of things. And from what I can tell, she really loves you no matter what. Anyway, about that new wallpaper we've been meaning to get..."

And then just leave it at that. :devil:

I dunno, something like that. The trick is, for her not to give away *too* much... That in actuality, she's already informed you. But you GG's are usually good with that kind of stuff, carefully crafting the message. :p


After the occasional hint here & there, over time? Eventually, you & your mother may want to kick it up a notch. Christmas comes along, or his birthday, or whatever? Get him a nice gift that he'd enjoy, something that is normally reserved for women -- and have your mother present it to him, privately, without you there -- and say that it was from the *both* of you.

That way, if there's a negative reaction, like he grows suspicious & accuses her of telling you his secret? She can just be like, "Oh, no... It's not like that! Curiousdaughter just didn't know what to get you this year (or she didn't have time, etc.), so she helped pay for it & told me to get you whatever I thought would make a nice gift for you!"

You know, something to that effect. :heehee:


At some point, with enough of the right type of gentle persuasion, I believe there's probably a good chance of him opening up, letting his guard down, and welcoming you to this other part of him. :hugs:



Good luck, and please keep us updated! :)

[Bea_]

I have reason to believe that my adult daughter has seen some evidence and probably suspects something about my wardrobe. I haven't read all the comments yet, but I seem to be in the minority here that would prefer that SHE bring it up in a loving/accepting manner. If she's bothered by it or disgusted by the idea, I'd rather not know. I'd love to know that she knew and accepted.

If my daughter asked a direct question of my wife, I would much prefer that my wife tell the truth rather than lie or just leave it hanging.

EDIT: I missed your question in your title first time around. How do I bring this up?...

It is hard to give advise to strangers because there are too many unknowns, but I can tell you what I can imagine my daughter doing in your situation. My daughter and I were very close while she was growing up. There were LOTS of special moments. If she knew about my taste (and was supportive), I can imagine her buying some little feminine trinket that reminded her of a specific memory from her childhood. For me probably a nice coffee floral porcelain coffee cup. I can imagine a simple note that said something to the effect of "For your softer side". Because of how my daughter and i related before she got married, I'd know she supported me.

None of this could relate to you, but you asked...

[Michelle 51]

My 2 cents worth
Most of us hide our crossdressing because we don't know how our family,friends would react if they knew.Most of us would love to be free of that worry.I'm sure your father kept it a secret because he is worried you would reject him if you knew.I only dress in front of my wife but all my children and two of our grandchildren know about Michelle but that's as far as it goes but it was a huge relief when they found out about her( by accident,long story) and still accept me as a dad and grandfather.I think if your ok with him dressing it would be a huge relief for him to know that.How to go about that is not for me to say.You'll know.