A question I?m going to pose to my wife...

[VS Fan]

So my wife knows all about ?Kelly? and is supportive of my needs even though she isn?t a willing participant. We had been discussing divorce over this since she recognizes my need to do this and is afraid that if she spends time with me dressed that while she would still love me, it would turn more into a girlfriend thing, as her image of me would be somewhat shattered. So we did an experiment where we watched a movie together while I was dressed up (although no wig and makeup). In the end we decided we would press on and that our love was stronger than ?this.?

So the question I?m going to pose to her (and am asking the group for your thoughts here first) is this:

Is it better to see me as a MIAD without the wig and makeup so that you can very obviously see that it?s still me? Or is it better to see me only with full wig and makeup so that you can mentally draw a line between the husband and the girlfriend? Or does it not matter at all?

My skills at makeup are not overly great and my wig is hot and bothersome (especially in warm Florida summers!) so it would be difficult to do the whole 9 yards every single time, but if it helps her ?pretend? that it?s not her husband but some friend named Kelly she?s hanging out with it would be worth the effort.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

[Crissy 107]

Kelly, Interesting question, I am sure you will get some different ideas posting this here but the simplest thing is to ask your wife what she thinks.

[VS Fan]

Crissy - oh yeah totally plan to! Just won’t be able to do that for a couple of weeks so figured I’d come to the oracle of CD.com to see what everyone here thinks or if they’ve posed similar questions :)

Edit: also I thought this might help those who have “retiring wives” as stated in other recent posts.... maybe there’s a path forward for some of those members in a discussion such as this....

[Teri Ray]

This is definitely a discussion that you should have with your wife. Only her thoughts on this question count.

[Kay J]

Frist of all if that is you in your information you look beautiful! Your wife is holding all the cards so ask her . If she don't want to see you all the way maybe she can give you some time to yourself! Good luck it's up to her!

[Aunt Kelly]

There's a key piece of information left out here. What do you want/need? Is clothing enough, or not? The two of you need to understand that before you can reach an accommodation that works for both of you.

[kimdl93]

I would echo the question about what you want. That question needs to be asked of yourself.

From what you have shared, it seems your wife has already given you an answer about staying together vs divorce. Of course, that attitude can change (I know from personal experience). And right now, it sounds like you are ok with the MIAD thing, but perhaps that is simply your attempt at maintaining an uncomfortable compromise.

[Krisi]

This is something that you and your wife must work out between yourselves. And remember, nothing stays the same. In time she may become comfortable with you fully made up as a woman or she may become uncomfortable with any sort of dressing.

[Shelly Preston]

I agree with others you should ask your wife.

However you may be able to soften the shock if you have a picture of you wearing makeup.

You can show her this first, then she can decide.

[Krisi]

I introduced my wife to my "little hobby" gradually over a period of several months. First a bra and panties, then forms in the bra, then a skirt, then hip and butt padding, then a wig, etc.

Oddly, she seems comfortable enough with all of this (around the house), but comments on me wearing lipstick. Perhaps because she seldom wears lipstick or any makeup.

Because of the lipstick comments, I am reluctant to try any eye makeup around her.

So, this might work for you. Increase your dressing gradually and judge her reaction. Slow down or stop when you see a negative reaction and give her time to adjust.

[VS Fan]

Frist of all if that is you in your information you look beautiful! Your wife is holding all the cards so ask her . If she don't want to see you all the way maybe she can give you some time to yourself! Good luck it's up to her!

Haha that is me, but I will admit that it is heavily edited... for privacy but also because it’s how I “wish” I looked. This photo easily takes 15+ years off of my real age (45)

I posted some pics in a photo thread last year that are closer to the real deal...

Aunt Kelly - good point - as for what I want ... I don’t need to be 24x7 or anything but when I’m home and relaxing this is definitely part of what I enjoy doing ... so it would be frequent during the day but my wife works so it probably wouldn’t be too much of an issue. Once my youngest daughter is off to college that’s when we might have some negotiation to do relative to evenings.

Kim - I think the MIAD thing on my part is simply the effort it takes to do makeup and so forth when it’s easier to just avoid mirrors :) If I were to go out I would complete the illusion the best I could.

Shelly - she has in fact seen pictures of me (same ones I posted last year) and she said I looked good... but of course that doesn’t mean she wants to hang out with me like that lol....

To all - definitely will have the discussion and I expect this will be an ongoing evolution ... just want to make sure I enjoy life while not rocking the boat too much! :)

[GretchenM]

You both need to be willing to seek a compromise. It can't be just one or the other. It may take several discussions and they will be touchy sometimes. It might also be a good idea to have a couple of the initial discussions in the presence of an impartial third party, like a couples therapist. That way if things get contentious the third party can jump in and calm things down. These discussions, as I am sure most her will agree, can be really dangerous to a relationship especially if one person desires freedom to express and the other is much more rigid in what is proper and acceptable.

Another approach is to establish boundaries that address the your needs AND her needs. In a marriage, each person is still an individual and needs to operate as an individual in some ways while operating as a couple in others. In establishing boundaries you both need to converse not only about "facts" but also feelings. Like, "When you reject me as a person because I do something that you do not agree with IT MAKES ME FEEL LIKE ..." In the "feel like" part use an analogy that the other person might be able to relate to - it triggers feelings of empathy and avoids the objectivity of talking facts only.

[VS Fan]

Gretchen - thanks ��- we’ve had many conversations along these lines over the past year and so the groundwork is there for the ongoing conversation... I do fully expect this to be a process and not an instant overnight resolution for sure!

[Stephanie47]

I opined on another thread that is somewhat similar to your question. As Aunt Kelly asked; "What do you need?" Are you content to creep along and stopped? Or even retreat if your wife sours on your presentation, whatever it may be at the time? Her acceptance my be determined by what you want to wear? Is it a pair of women's jeans along with a feminine top? Or will it hit a wall with a flowery dress, hosiery, heels, undergarments? My wife hardly ever wears a dress. She usually wears jeans and a graphic tee shirt. Her graphic tee shirts are usually from the men's section as she likes the cut better than the women's cut. My wife has stated she has absolutely no desire to engage in any cross dressing, period! "If I wanted to be married to a woman, I would have married a woman!" End of story.

Whatever you decide you want to do be prepared she may make a 180 degree turn. She probably is not leveling with you. Perhaps, she is trying to see if your interest in women's attire and presentation is something she can absorb. I'm sure her image of you has been somewhat altered already. I don't think your wife is going to "pretend" you're a friend name "Kelly." She is going to see her male husband wearing women's attire.

Maybe some of the GG's on this site will weigh in with their thoughts. What is their true feelings when their husbands sit around the house? Of course that sampling of opinion is tainted by the fact they have chosen to remain with their husbands. I'm sure there are many husband's who will chime in about their failed marriages and their wive's 180 degree turn around.

Me? I decided a long time ago to keep my dressing private.

[Micki_Finn]

This is really going to be up to your wife. For some women the fear is seeing you as a woman and the possibilities that might lead to. The other side of the coin is being afraid of seeing ones husband looking absurd and not being able to get that image out of ones head. There’s also the possibility that she’d rather not see it at all.

[VS Fan]

Micky haha yes I even think i look absurd most of the time.... so how can I honestly expect her to see me differently?

[char GG]

Hi Kelly,
I guess I will weigh in with my :2c:

Obviously, no one here knows your wife. However, this:


So my wife knows all about ?Kelly? and is supportive of my needs even though she isn?t a willing participant.

So she knows about Kelly. Is is necessary that she be a willing participant? Even if she doesn't want to? Do you want to be involved in everything that she does?

This business about "starting slow" is ridiculous in my mind. It's almost like playing a mind game. All that shows is that you are continuing to add to your dressing as you go along and may definitely backfire as she won't know what the "end game" really is. If I could offer any advice, don't play games.

Would she be open to you joining a CD social group? That way, you could dress but she doesn't have to be involved.

The other disturbing thing in your OP is that someone (you or her) are considering divorce. Is it over the issue that she doesn't want to participate? Or is it deeper than that? Only you two know the answer to that question also.

As others have said, only she knows the answers to your questions.

I hope that you both can work out an amicable solution. Best wishes!

[Debs]

Heres my lttle contribution, in the end my wife realised I was going to dress come what may, whether were together or divorced, the force is strong, and in my opinion its inbuilt into your genes and ustoppable, so bearing this in mind, you will continue to dress forever, so if she doesnt accept this part of you its going to end. I do have rules and boundries that I must not cross without permission, but my wife now realises that its part of me, its not going to hurt anyone if I keep to the rules, but saying that my wife does give me permission now and again to break some of them, like driving home from my holiday home dressed (what an amazing thrill), I can go to Blackpool and stay overnight and be with my other girlfriends, I stay as open as I can with her now and no covering lies to hide my dressing reqiured (stick to the rules), guess what Im triying to say is agree some rules and boundries, dont cross them unless agreed, keep it like that, and once she sees it isnt a threat to her home, lifestle friend etc, she will be accepting, agree some rules that will keep it at a distance from her then tweek around them, this may take some time though, talking i years here, lol

[Teresa]

Kelly ,
Sometime ago I posed a similar question to my wife suggesting if she stays with me during the transition at what point would she stop me ? The obvious answer came back , " never going to happen !" Oh well I tried .

I still feel the worse situation to be seen is as a MIAD but to a wife she's maybe happier simply because she can say you looked stupid to deter you , in other words they retain control over you .
I also understand they may have the same reaction to you , certainly in my case that the man had disappeared , the fear being then that he may not come back eventually .

It really comes down to how bad your dysphoria is and what it takes to satisfy it , lets not forget you are a human being with needs at some point you have to come to terms with that .

The need to share it with someone for some people is almost overwhelming , it might make you feel good but not everyone feels the same way .

I've said this before but I would advise against calling it a " Hobby " as Krisi does , I feel it's an insult to your wife /partner and family besides hobbies don't cause the same heartache and trauma . It also implies it's something that can be taken or left , personally if it was a hobby I wouldn't be in my situation now , I would possibly still be in a stable marriage .

[BTWimRobin]

Only you and your wife can answer that question. Take it slow.

[Jenny22]

VS, sooo many of the forum ladies wish they had what you have in your wife's acceptance. I'd suggest that you be very careful not to press your wishes too hard, or you may push her over her brink. You don't do makeup well, and your wig may not really look good on you, so why would you want to share such a look with your wife? Be happy with what she accepts.

[RADER]

My Wife was OK with my dressing around the house.Just do not go outside. She was OK with me wearing a skirt, or a dress
in her presence, but the adding of a wig was a little over the top. It was OK once in a while, but not to make it a habit.
She was even OK with me wearing Baby Doll Nighties to bed. I could not shave the forest on my chest. She loved to run
her fingers through it.
Rader

[VS Fan]

Thanks for all the replies ladies - definitely given me a lot to think about!!! :)

[Taylor186]

As has been said, you have it way better than many here. Why do you feel the need to push it more in front of her?

[Sometimes Steffi]

in my opinion its inbuilt into your genes and unstoppable ...

There's a theory that it's not in your genes, but happens in utero.

I turns out that the brain and the uh, gonads, develop at different times prenatally.

So, you might be XY and you get male gonads at month 3, but at month 6 when the brain is developing, the fetus gets a surge of Estrogen. The fetus already has male gonads that can't be changes, but the Estrogen turns the brain female. Depending on how much E you get, for how long and when in the pregnancy it occurs leave your brain a little bit femme or a lot femme.

[Paulie Birmingham]

I wish my wife had the gene to wear pantyhose more often.

[VS Fan]

Paulie - haha yes my wife hates them and like many GGs can’t wait to take off her bra... she did joke with me once saying “yeah I can’t wait to take it off and you can’t wait to put one on!”

All - believe me I do appreciate the level of acceptance that I have with my wife - I know many here don’t even have that to the level that I do... it is at least something we can joke about at times :)

[Devi SM]

Kelly,
Before to give you my answer I'll tell.you in few words who I am:
41 years happily married transwoman. Came out to my wife around 5 years ago with a mor conflicting confession "I'm a bisexual crossdresser" that wa three days of crying and not eating for her.
Today, I'm living full time as who I mean to be, last week I had orchiectomy, I'd been almost a year on electrolysis.
Before just answer here I read some of your started threads thru the years and I arrive that you're crying to be accepted , as many here say about fears with wife, don't want to lose her and she let them do something or nothing at all (something I don't understand, both are adults and free why one part of the equation would allow or prohibit to the other tomdo anything?)

Answering your question, for me MIAD, is horrible, as some said, will give your wife reasons to completely reject your dressing. You had been in DADT, had that changed? If not I see you're talking about it.
I would prefer, even the humid heat in Florida go wholentonthe nines with wig and make up. Please dont think your wife could think you're someone else, another woman, don't be naive, your wife would recognize you whatever dress or make up you wear and will still seeing and missing her male husband.
Women are emotional not stupid but emotional.
I was a man a rational man, nownin hormones im a woman. My world is upside down, now emotions govern my life and I completely understand my wife andnother women.
If your wife loves you will do sacrifices but you will have to keep doing sacrifices as you had been doing.
In some thread you mention seeing a therapist, inrecommend you look for a gender or trans experienced therapist. I'm lucky now my therapist is a transgender as well. I saw a family therapist for a year before and helped me a lot creating and implementing strategies to slowly push on my wife but without making her feel she was being violating her needs or desires.
My therapist now helped me more to develop my own personality as a woman and kive I then world without fears and more freedom.

Mho.

Pm if you need.

Devi

[Teresa]

Rader,
Comments like yours often come up on the forum , you do what pleases your wife even to the point of not having the free choice about your body hair . Turning the tables for a moment how much do you dictate to your wife on how she looks ? It might also be interesting what her reply could be if you tried it .

Steffi,
It was good to learn that explanation sometime ago , it made so much sense , without it I couldn't have comfortably make the steps I have . It's also important to remember it also affects women , they may have women's body parts but the brain is telling them something different .

[Devi SM]

I agree with Teresa but didn't want to be too aggressive.
Teresa you already went thru a divorce and have more freesom and as I said once, you already passed thatrubicon, the world looks different beyond it so don't expect others can imagine what is about it, I didn't want to pass it soni don't know how is it.
You say all the time what is for you to live as a woman and live full time as one and think you're happy as you're now and don't need to get in hormones, how can you know how that feels if you haven't passed that Rubicon?

[Teresa]

Devi,
There are several reasons but basically at my age I feel I've now missed the boat , I have many TG and TS friends, when I compare my life with theirs there is little or no difference in our day to day lives . To me the important point is if I'm happy with my life does it really matter without hormones and how much happier would I be on them ?

I agree I have more freedom but it has come at a price , the World is now different because I made it happen . I appreciate some are desparate to hold on to their marriages but long term it was never going to work out , at some point both partners must be honest with themsleves and face the facts .

[Devi SM]

Teresa, it's impossible to compare our live with other's live. It's a very subjective analysis, how many transgender woman friends?? How oldnthey were when got into, how old are you? I got in HRT at 58 and if I would norn 1000 times ill do it again but as you say, if you're happy without knowing if this would really better for you is OK.
I think that there are another reasons but is up to you to share them or move forward.

So are you predicting my marriage will finally end because im a transwoman. I think that again you are being very subjective not knowing the details of other's live.

Mho.

Devi

[Teresa]

Devi,
No I'm not suggesting it will end anyone's marriage I was referring to my own . The comparison is important to me , in my group of friends hormones are creating new problems in some of their lives , I'm not dodging the issue , if I seriously don't feel I need hormones does it really matter to anyone else . If I may ask is your life that much happier than mine on a daily basis , are hormones really solving all your problems ? You're suggesting I'm not being totally open may I ask you the same question about hormones ?

[Devi SM]

Teresa, I'm open to any question and I don't need to go to private messages because once I got out of the closet to my wife, that still supporting me, I had no more to hide yo anybody, so I don't have problems to show my identity online.
If I'm happier on hormones? Omg! That's the reason I still in this web yo help others like me that feel older to.move forward, to many that think are going to destroy their marriage, are afraid of side-effects, etc you can complete the list. My life changed from hell to heaven, there are so many aspects and I'm a firm believer that the brain of a crossdresser is needing some female hormones that are missing g so it tries desperately to fill a femenine image focus on dresssing and others on sex with men but when in hormones, it's the testimony of many, those things pass to a very relegated place, the missing piece of the jigsaw puzzle is completed but you, when i say you is you Teresa, can't know or even imaging it without living it, so did my life change? I was a dreamer full of frustration that I didn't know where there, for me life was ok, I was happy but as you it wasn't enough and dressing I could calm the beast hidden inside but all that was a fake life a bad counterfeit of a real life.
I tried so many times my wife could get a membership in this web so she can talk by herself but she doesn't speak English, after years struggling to earn it, because of speech problem, sonjt would be me translating for her and that would completely kill the transparency and freedom of the concept.
Just then other day one of my daughter in law, the only thT gave us a grandchild, told me to think of me so brave and better person now.
Life is never easy, im facing now the start of a new business in a male enviroment, i knownit will be hard but you know, inorefer to die trying that just kill myself as I tried twice before hormones.
Now I ask you, do you think that it was OK for me?
I still not listening for.you the real reasons, pm if you need.
I'm here just yo help and no bragging others about my "achievements....

Devi

[Ozark]

I like to dress androgynously, I call it my 'Iowa farmwife' look and I mean that in a most loving way possible. You know, Chic elastic waist jeans, sensible shoes, vanity fair underdressed, nice button up shirt/blouse, sports bra and forms I bought at Salvation Army for $15 a pair. The forms are pushing it so I limit those to evening after she has retired for the evening.

I have no desire to wear make-up. With the coronavirus my hair is long and if I blow dry it after I shower, it looks good to me, well, except for that bald spot. (The other night I showed and blow-dried my hair and part of it 'just didn't look right' (years ago, in an Ann Landers column, a reader asked if it was alright he shaved his legs because the hair 'just didn't look right') so I went into her bathroom and grabber her hand held mirror and, for the first time in my life that I remember, I looked at the back of my head. I got a bald spot back there! A pretty big bald spot, like a monk! Why, I never realized that. LOL. I am enjoying be more comfortable in dressing in comfortable clothes. I'm 71 and we're just hanging out at home. I do like my vanity fair pajamas! This photo is at our lake cabin June 19, 2015. I feel comfortable. No make up, no wig for me.
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