I told another GG friend, AND.....

[Kimberly A.]

Hey y'all! :)
Well, I have another GG friend, who also lives in California that I met in a chatroom. I have known her for a number of years now, she is married and has children and her husband knows that she and I talk and he's cool with it. I have spoken with this friend on the phone as well. First of all, I am VERY respectful to her, her husband and their children and I would never do anything to try and break up their marriage..... Not that she would let me even if I wanted to, she is very happily married to her husband. LOL

Anyway, a few nights ago while she and I were both in the chatroom that I own, I came out and told her that I shave more than just my legs..... I shave my chest, arms and armpits as well, I have a VERY strong feminine side and I'm a crossdresser. I will not post that convo here, but she was very accepting and supportive of it. She even told me that she figured I was a CD'er, because I wear pantyhose and I act feminine. LOL I texted her a few pictures of Kimberly and she said that I look cute, good and I'm passable. LOL :D She is even going to send me some perfume samples that she's not gonna use..... WOO HOO! LOL

Anyway, I just thought I would share this with y'all. :)

[Robertacd]

I am VERY respectful to her, her husband and their children and I would never do anything to try and break up their marriage.....

:eek:Wow:eek: Where did that even come from?

[Kimberly A.]

Roberta, I just didn't want anyone to get the wrong idea about myself and my GG friend.

[Robertacd]

The Iady doth protest too much, methinks. :p

[Micki_Finn]

I don’t think anyone was going to go there until you brought it up...

[Marianne S]

I am VERY respectful to her, her husband and their children and I would never do anything to try and break up their marriage...


:eek:Wow:eek: Where did that even come from?


Roberta, I just didn't want anyone to get the wrong idea about myself and my GG friend.


The Iady doth protest too much, methinks. :p


I don?t think anyone was going to go there until you brought it up...

MUST we have this kind of unjustified accusation against a member who is only relating a personal story, on what's supposed to be a "support" board? You think people at large out there in the "real world" wonldn't have "gone there" until Kimberly mentioned it? BWA-HA-HAAA! You BET they would!--no matter whether there's anything "in it" or not. People have dirty minds! No wonder anyone feels the need to make things clear about the nature of a relationship.

The factor most relevant here is the closely intimate, emotional and self-revelatory nature that characterizes so many friendships between women, by comparison with those of men. Many people assume that such frankness, intimacy, sympathy and intensity of feeling between a man and a woman can only exist if they're lovers. It's just another of those prejudices, those wretched stereotypes of sex and gender.

Speaking from my (straight male) perception of a woman's side, there are many friendships between women and men where a woman sees a man as merely "simpatico." Not like some unfeeling "cavemen," but a "nice guy," a confidant she can share some things with as she might with another woman--yet without the kind of sexual attraction she might get embroiled in with a more "macho" man. In fact men, compared with women, arev often disadvantaged by the lack of t his kind of intimate friendship.

From a crossdresser's perspective, I've experienced some of this myself with certain women. I remember Jill, for instance, who shared her written thoughts with me so many years ago, and I treasured them. Yet we were not "in love," and never were. I felt passion for other girls. not for her, yet we were still good friends. She was seduced by another guy, a daring fellow who climbed across her roof into her attic bedroom to make love wih her while her parents were asleep in the room next door. (Which doesn't mean I haven't done similar things myself, making love on the living room floor with my girlfriend's parents asleep in the bedroom above--but that's beside the point!)

My point is that women and men can be close friends without "sex," and that most of all, the closeness between a "crossdresser" and a GG can be harmless, more at times like a "women's friendship" between two humans sharing their "feminine side." Anyway if a CD is seen by a GG to be visibly wearing pantyhose, what would we expect them both to think and feel, and what would we expect to be the relationship between them?

My good wishes, Kimberly, and I hope you enjoy your growing friendship.

[docrobbysherry]

Marianne, I MUST ask, with the greatest respect: How can a man and a woman communicate for years without something going on?:straightface:

So, Kim, u DIDN'T talk about dressing until recently. Then, what does that leave that's NOT suspicious? Gardening? Exchanging chili receipes? Astrology club members?

I don't get it! And, apparently I'm NOT the only one.:brolleyes:

[Marianne S]

Doc, also with the greatest respect, I have to ask what do MEN talk about for a great many years, without anything "going on"--meaning anything "sexual"--between them? Cars? Football? Politics? Our jobs? How to succeed in life? "Which is faster"? "Who won that game"? "Who lost it, and why?" How to build a house? How to fix this or that problem?

Despite what I said about the emotional intensity of women's friendships, I have to acknowledge that there can be great bonds of brotherhood among men too--most of all, as we know, between those who have fought wars and shared the same risks together. Yet none of this is "sexual" in nature. Not between themselves, anyway--only about our success with women we've known.

Yet none of these topics need be exclusive to one sex or the other. Friendships can be based on mutual interests. My late wife and I got on well together largely because our interests. tastes, beliefs and outlooks--and our careers too--were mutually compatible. Music, movies, politics, religion--nothing "radical" there, just moderation and eclecticism--humor above all!--but skills, children, life goals. "fun things" to do, whatever.

It all reminds me of that powerful line from an old and classic movie: "Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHNoyaXl1IU)--that without a tragic misunderstanding: "You mean, we could have been [b]friends all these years?"

There are so many echoes of that thought! Everywhere from "Oklahoma!" to Rodney King. By Rodgers and Hammerstein:


The farmer and the cowman should be friends.
Oh, the farmer and the cowman should be friends.
One man likes to push a plough, the other likes to chase a cow,
But that's no reason why they cain't be friends!

All the way to Rodney King's plaintive lament: "Why can't we all just get along?"

Men and women don't always have the same interests and inclinations. But nor do people in general, so what the heck? I recall someone who was undoubtedly transsexual--half a century ago when we didn't even know the word--chatting with women at a party about clothes, fashion design and "Liberty fabrics" (he (she) was very "arty"), and I've no doubt this was just "girl talk" to all of them. Richard was "queer," to use his own word--no offense intended to anybody--and so feminine that his friendships with women would never be a threat to anyone. I really ought to post about "him" (her), and how things were back then. Anyway I hope my ideas come across. Best to you and all!

[Kimberly A.]

Ya know, now I'm regretting even making this post to begin with..... I joined this forum, looking for help, advice and support and a lot of the time, I get nothing but snarky, stuck-up remarks from those of you who think you know it all and think you know me. You think you know what I've been through, but you really know NOTHING about me, except for what I've posted on this forum. So for those of you who wanna be snarky and stuck-up..... Just keep your cake hole shut, please!

And I made this post because I thought some of you would find it a good and interesting thing that I came out to another friend as a CD'er….. Guess I was wrong.

Except in this thread, Marianne, thank you for your comments and you preach it, girl! LOL You are ABSOLUTELY right..... I felt I HAD to clarify that there is nothing more than friendship going on between myself and my married GG friend, as some people, (not all, but SOME) DO have dirty minds.

- - - Updated - - -

Doc, obviously you don't understand friendship between two people of the opposite gender, unless it involves sex..... Well, I'mma tell ya somethin..... That IS possible, believe it or not. Ever since I was a kid, I've always been able to make friends better with girls than guys, which might explain why I don't get along very well with some of you here, but for the ones who I don't get along with, I typically ignore, unless they just push my buttons. I have/had a LOT of GG friends, but I have not had a sexual relationship with ANY of them, except for my ex-wife and a couple of girls that I dated.

Maybe some of you shouldn't even talk about things that you don't understand.

[Chelsea B]

Marriane, great observations about man-GG relationship dynamics.
As someone who not long ago reveled myself to a close female friend, and got approval and great enthusiasm in return, I have been struggling a bit with this assumption that the CD aspect somehow makes it more intimate, as it involves something secret to almost anyone around us.
But I have come to understand her dynamic.......she just sees it as part of who I am (and she is right of course), and wouldn?t think of not embracing all of me as a close friend. So, not such a big deal to her from an intimacy standpoint.
And to your point, Kimberly, I have had tons of female friends in my life too. I much prefer the company of women, not just for a sexual relationship. I think there are some, who just don’t understand how that can be, for a heterosexual man.

[Stephanie47]

Marianne, I MUST ask, with the greatest respect: How can a man and a woman communicate for years without something going on?:straightface:
.:brolleyes:

I have to chuckle about this line of observation or questioning. I carried on a very nice relationship with a woman who has three children and a husband. Her children range from college down to middle school. We shared a common hobby at the time. We frequently had coffee at a local Target and chatted for two hour plus sometimes. My wife met her, and, she was welcomed in our home. Not once did my wife ever question motivations. When she and her family moved out of state my wife asked whether I still kept in contact with her. I told my wife I had not heard from her in awhile. My wife thought that was too bad as she had been a great friend. Only people who are insecure in their relationships question motivation and engaged in unfounded speculation. IMHO!

[mbmeen12]

I joined this forum, looking for help, advice and support and a lot of the time, I get nothing but snarky, stuck-up remarks from those of you who think you know it all and think you know me.

I triple stamp your double stamp Kimberly...good for you!

[Shelly Preston]

Moderator Note

For those who don't understand that a platonic friendship can exist.

Please remember not everyone understands this community either.

Even if you don't understand it. This does not mean it isn't true.

Not every relationship is reduced to sex

Remember we are here to support each other.

[Crissy 107]

Kimberly, I loved your post as did many others here and you are correct about how you explained everything. Myself, I have many more female friends then male friends as I can relate to the girls easier as I feel most of us can.

[docrobbysherry]

Moderator Note

For those who don't understand that a platonic friendship can exist.

Please remember not everyone understands this community either.

Even if you don't understand it. This does not mean it isn't true.

Not every relationship is reduced to sex

Remember we are here to support each other.

Thank u for that mod's note, Shelley. I'm very sorry if anyone, especially Kim, took my post as an attack. Which she apparently did. Because she responded defensively. Rather than explaining their common interest. Which is what I really wanted to know. So we could all understand what they discussed for over a year? If there was some reason u don't want to mention what your common interest is, Kim, then u could have said something obscure like Stephanie. "A common hobby.":thumbsup:

Let me just say, I'm kinda old and set in my ways. In my experience, I've never had a long relationship with a woman that wasn't a friend's wife or family member without sex lurking at least in the fringes of my consiousness. But, that's why I enjoy this site. That u can learn so much from personal details, from other people's perspective!:battingeyelashes:

[kimdl93]

I am fairly old and have a number of close GG friends...maybe more than i have male friends. I couldn?t begin to tell you what we talk about...there are no set categories or limits, except that I am probably less comfortable openly discussing personal matters, even with GGs that I have come out to. Sex is not lurking in the background. Those GG friends that have been interested in sexual relationships, instigated those encounters. They have have been open and upfront about that too.

[DianeT]

Kim, good for you. It's nice to be able to share with someone you like and trust. California is not a small state, but who knows, maybe you'll get a chance to meet in person in the next future.

[Kimberly A.]

Apology accepted, Doc. :)
Well, my GG friend and I don't have CD'ing in common, of course so I'm not sure what you're referring to there..... I'm not getting defensive at that comment, I'm just a little confused. LOL Also Doc, I haven't discussed CD'ing with my friend for over a year, I just told her a few nights ago. However, I have known her for a number of years and she has known pretty much ever since I've known her that I wear pantyhose..... I didn't really get into big-time CD'ing until about October of last year and I hope this clarifies it some for you. LOL

But yes, Shelley is absolutely right..... Platonic relationships happen ALL the time between males and females, with never any romantic or sexual relationship happening at all.

[lingerieLiz]

I've had women friends that knew/know I CD Neither of us are sexually attracted to each other.

[Robertacd]

MUST we have this kind of unjustified accusation ...
My point is that women and men can be close friends without "sex,"

Um.. That was kind of my whole point. Why go out of your way to say something like "I am not trying to break up their marriage." to begin with?

[Kimberly A.]

I already said, Roberta, that we all know that some people have dirty minds and obviously some here believe that it's impossible for a male and female to have a platonic relationship that doesn't involve sex or romance..... I will not repeat myself on this again, I felt it needed to be said. If this bothers you, then you know how to click off this thread.

[candykowal]

Funny and FUN....posts and replies....you girls got me giggling...."As The World Turns!"

[Kelli_cd]

Kim, you go! I'd love to have a gg friend with whom I could share this. Of course, that gg SHOULD be my wife, but she's not ready for this yet.

[Patience]

...I joined this forum, looking for help, advice and support and a lot of the time, I get nothing but snarky, stuck-up remarks from those of you who think you know it all and think you know me. I'm glad someone finally mentioned this. I've been too much of a lady to mention it. Anyway, least said, soonest mended.

Good for you on finding another ally in your journey, Kim. I'm not sure I'd have started by sharing shaving habits. That's more of a personal detail, if I may say so. When I come out, I usually just rip the band-aid in one go and just say I crossdress and let the other person react and ask questions of their own. The details of my personal transformation are more of a trade secret as far as non-dressers are concerned.

[docrobbysherry]

I realize my command of the English language sucks and I tend to blather on incoherently!:doh:

So, let me start our conversation over from the very beginning the way I should have!:thumbsup:

Kim, if u wouldn't mind saying, what did u and your friend discuss in the year+ before u came out to her?:battingeyelashes:

[Kimberly A.]

Well Doc, I am glad that you asked..... She and I found out very quickly that we both love the same TV show, "Supernatural" and we talked about that a lot. LOL But I mean, you know how it goes when you first start talking to anyone...? Small talk really, then later become friends and conversations tend to get a bit more personal as the two people learn more about each other. However, she and I, of course, don't share anything TOO intimate with each other, it's really a mutual respect kind of thing. LOL

[DMichele]

Kimberly,

Kudos to you and your GG friends! I can relate to your relationship with your Chat Room GG friend.

About 5 years ago through moving office cubicle roulette, I ended next to an admin assistance - GG. We shared family stories, pictures of the grandkids, laughs, tears etc. Last year I went through a series of medical testing, which postponed needed eye surgery, and the death of a sibling after a year long journey in and out of hospital, rehabilitation/therapy and assisted living. She was always there to listen and to offer support - note: she is a breast cancer survivor.

About 3 weeks ago the company reduced the workforce, and as a result I lost my job. I elected to retire, but many who lost their jobs need to find work. Within days she became despondent because she new a number of individuals who lost their jobs. Sensing her sadness I wrote her an e-mail with the hope of brightening her outlook. Since she and her husband share the e-mail, and she was not up to reading my e-mail, her husband read it to her. She thanked me, and said it made it feel better.

Although I have not told her directly that I am transgender, I have shared that I get pedicures, carry a handbag on weekends. She is a great human being and I am so fortunate to have crossed paths with her.

Yes, we can have platonic relationships with GGs, and I am sure it has been going on for centuries.

[Kimberly A.]

I can totally understand that, Kelli.

- - - Updated - - -

Thank you, Patience! :) Yeah, I just got sick and tired of all the snarky remarks and such and I'm not afraid to stand up to people like that. Not that I wanted to, especially here since most everyone is so nice, of course but I felt it was needed..... I've had a LOT of experience on social media, in chat rooms and such and I've dealt with way worse and never hesitate to put the trolls and snarky people in their place. :D

Yes, it's definitely awesome to have another supportive GG friend whom I've known for a number of years. LOL..... I agree with shaving habits being a personal detail, but I just kinda wanted to ease her into the conversation and not just come right out and say, "Guess what, I'm a crossdresser" and that was just best way I knew how to do it. Besides, she has shared with me some personal details about herself that she wouldn't share with anyone else besides her husband as well. LOL

- - - Updated - - -

DMichele, thank you! :) I'm glad you as well have a GG friend that you can share that info with, I know it helps a lot.

[Sandi Beech]

Hey Kimberly,

It is nice to have someone you know who you can talk to about dressing. I really do not have that among my friends and family. I have only come out to strangers but that is enough for me.

Gosh I have not been in any chat rooms in 20 years. One reason I stopped was the chat rooms where I went to were poorly moderated and people would be rude or kick people out on a whim. Good moderation is a necessity for this sort of space to not get out of control. I did get a few nasty comments directed at me on one post here. One even called me dense, but since most people are very nice I just let it slide, but just so you know - I get what you were saying.

Stay safe,

Sandi

[Kimberly A.]

Hey Sandi,

Oh yes, it definitely is nice to have a supportive GG friend whom I can talk to, especially when I'll never come out to family about being a CD'er..... Also, I totally understand about coming out to only strangers; for some reason, it's just easier to do that than it is to tell someone you've known for a long time.

About the chat rooms, I understand that as well..... The ones that I chat in, however, plus the one that I own are very well and closely moderated and the owners and mods do not allow for any drama or harassment in the chat rooms. However, I'm sorry to hear that you had a hard time in the chat rooms..... Just out of curiosity Sandi, did you used to chat in Talk City, now known as Delphi Forums? That's where I chat, is the reason I asked. LOL

[Sandi Beech]

Kimberly

No I used to have a hotmail account and I think it was a MSN chat room as I recall. It has been so long I barely remember. They used to have some crossdressing chat rooms. A lot has changed since then, but I never wanted to start up again in part because I just do not have the time to chat for extended periods now. Even so I made a few long distance friends at the time so it was kind of fun.

Sandi