"Public Relations," We'll Call It

[Val_Blackbird]

I'm sure this has been brought up many times before, so please feel free to delete if there is any violation here.

If you're among those who regularly go out in public, how do you deal with the inevitable stares, glares, chuckles, etc.? I know many people say to just ignore it, but for some of us, this is not so easy. The answer to "who cares?" is: I do. And, it's not quite as simple as just stop caring. Apologies for that.

I'm just curious how some of us put up with this and manage to push through, because I have certainly tried . . . and failed. That said, I embarrass easily, regardless, so perhaps that's a factor. But, even still, this scenario cuts much, much deeper than my normal level of embarrassment. I don't know if that is normal or not.

So, that's it. And, again, apologies if this is stupid.

I'll just briefly mention that there is also some level of danger that I feel should be at least acknowledged, if not delved into. That's all I'll say about that. :)

Thank you, and have a wonderful day.

- Blackbird

[AllieSF]

Val,

I am one of those that decided that I wanted to go out and just did. At first to trans/LGBTQ+ locales, San Francisco is basically that all over the place. So, I had read about it here and went out and only had 2 really negative situations over 13 years going out there. Both were minor. Yes, I am lucky to have found my new self and life and also be is a mental condition, many, many years of training all that, and live in the San Francisco Bay area. However, I really do understand others problems with getting out the door and just enjoying themselves for so many valid reasons.

How to get over it? Well, from my experience with a lot of things, including the need to occasionally speak in public to a defined topic, being coached in how to get the message across, I hated those moments. What I did learn from that and have applied to many aspects of my life is that if fear is holding me back from doing what I want to do and what I am told to do, public speaking, the more I do it the better I get and the fears get smaller and smaller. As a transgender woman, there are so many reasons to be hesitant and even afraid to step out that door, including a bit of rare danger. My consistent recommendation is to find that kindred soulmate/sidekick/friend with whom to venture out to safe places. I found my first friends here back in 2007, one of whom is still a very good friend. Eventually I found more, again rom this site to join up with. Some of these big/little steps can really help out. Many start by going to TG?CD meetups. The ones I went to were safe places and mostly social orientated. These are also great places to network and meet new people who my end up being your great friend or at least good sidekick.

So, simply stated, the more you stretch your fears the smaller they can become. A partner in crime, so to speak, is a great way to make all that happen. Good luck,

Allie

[Robertacd]

Honestly I don't get any of that, or at least I am oblivious to it. I am sure it's because I basically live in a small town progressive bubble, but I haven't even been misgendered in public in over a year.

But in general I quit caring about what other people think some time in my 30's. I just decided I am too old to let worrying about what other people think hold me back.

[candykowal]

Gosh living in a "diverse" metropolitan area such as Las Vegas, it is kind of hard to imagine not fitting in and being stared at or berated.
Maybe get away from those family oriented gambling joints, on the strip, and head off to where the locals roam?
The strip sure attracts everyone from all over the country who have never seen a LGBTQ person.
A lot of folks live in small town America where everyone know their towns business so they are used to conforming to social standards.
My friend Carla, here on the forum...should chime in as she is a local of Vegas and does shop in the area, out in public.

I think it also has to do with your perceptions, maybe toning down your presentation or work harder to be more presentable...maybe all of those???
Mingling with like minded friends also is a great tool as they have a different perception of your presentation.
We are all our worst critics....you will never be totally satisfied with your looks and that can cause some hyper sensitivity.
I for one, hang out with a lot of like minded friends and do my best to match their mannerisms and appearance so even if I catch someone outing me, I still know I did my best to present in a respectful manner and there is nothing I should be ashamed of!
Besides, they dont know me, they are not in my social circle, and they have their own issues....

[Val_Blackbird]

It's a little surprising how conservative this town really is, at least by my observation. Lots of desert rednecks out here. :strugglin

[Robertacd]

I have been told by many Vegas locals, once you get off the strip, Vegas is a small town.

[AngelaYVR]

This is a great question. Let me first get this out of the way: we’re going to assume that your presentation is good and your clothing choices are not overly flamboyant. This is not a comment on how well you pass.

Ok, from this point there are a few things to keep in mind. I’ll bullet point them to keep it succinct.
- people often react if this is the first time they have seen someone like you and it can be a bit unpredictable for many.
- people can react because they feel threatened. Do you make a gorgeous woman? That can rile some people up.
- people with low self esteem often try to take others down a peg. I feel sorry for these people.
- groups of people are usually worse, the tribalism kicks in.
- you may hit a nerve with someone. I like to say that the louder someone laughs, the more likely it is that person has something to hide.
- finally, no matter what, some people are just flat out jerks.

Luckily for us, most people do not say anything. Whatever they think, good or bad, stays in their heads. As for the others, I just don’t care! I like who I am, I carry myself with pride and know my self worth. The few negative reactions I get just plink off my back because I simply am not fazed by the opinions of people who are rude. I pity them back. I wonder how sad their lives are. And then I carry on! The compliments I receive obliterate the snark. Love yourself, Val, and all the hate becomes impotent.

[char GG]

Hi Val,
Others have given good advice. I would like to chime in: "consider the source". Are the rude ones coming from drinking establishments, casinos, or tourists looking for something they don't see at home? Do they have nothing better to do?

You really can't control other people. You can only control your reaction to them. You have the same right that they do to occupy this place on earth so try not to worry about those that have nothing better to do then remark on others. Easier said than done sometimes.

Just a personal side note: I have a handicapped son who often gets teased about his manner of speech. It took him a long time to learn the same thing that people here are telling you. Basically, the rude people are the ones with the problem. Sometimes you just have to roll with it.

Good luck. :)

[Micki_Finn]

People say “just ignore it” because you have two options: you can ignore it or you can make a scene. If you’re embarrassed about getting clocked, making a scene and letting EVERYONE know you’re a man in a dress isn’t really an option at all. So that just leaves ignoring it.

You have to realize that no matter what you do, where you go, or how you’re dressed, there is always someone out there who will look at or react to you negatively wether it’s your appearance, weight, race, clothes, manner of speaking, general attitude, whatever. It doesn’t matter who you are, everyone is the villain in someone else’s story. Period. You can either get worked up because someone you don’t know and don’t CARE to know thinks negatively about you, or you can just live your life and accept the fact that there will always be someone who thinks you’re dirt.

[kimdl93]

Honestly, I seldom experience stares and fewer chuckles. Of course, I do not go out of my way to look and being slightly oblivious and a bit deaf doesn’t hurt either.

When I have been out and elicited a less than positive response, I shrugged it off and went about my business.

[susan54]

I go out a lot (though not as much as I used to). I don't pass. No chuckles, no stares. It just doesn't happen. The only exception was when I went to a tourist attraction with a lot of Americans. No comments but lots of stares and double-takes. Are Americans just rude? Brits are cool and take it all in their stride.

[Teresa]

Blackbird,
The problem is if you keep looking over your shoulder for a reaction you may often get one . It really is a matter of building your confidence , I've been very lucky and never had any problems with comments or stares . Women may take a second look to check out what you are wearing .

There is obviously another side to this , some people have never seen a CDer / TG person , sometimes they mean no harm but take a second look out of curiosity .

[HollyGreene]

I've been out many times over a period of about 20 years and I can only recall being stared at once, and I'm sure the guy was very drunk, so I'm not even sure that it counts. He didn't say anything; he just watched me continuously as I walked past.
The first several times I went out I was convinced that everyone would be staring at me so I'd even cross the street if I saw somebody coming the other way.
Then I realised that by doing so I might be bringing more attention to myself than if I'd just continued and walked past.
I confirmed this on later excursions.

Really, most people are just wrapped up in their own little world and don't really pay that much attention to others around them.

The exception is if you do something to bring attention to yourself such as dressing inappropriately (i.e. not blending in), having terrible makeup or wig, walking obviously like a man, or even walking in an over-affected manner (don't walk the way you THINK a woman walks - walk the way they DO walk).

[docrobbysherry]

I'm totally with u, Val. I've been out dressed countless times. But, I NEVER go out dressed to vanilla venues unless it's with a group of T friends! I don't enjoy and will NEVER get used to; rude looks, comments, and the extra, mostly negative, attention I get out dressed.:doh:

That's why almost all my outings r to T friendly venues and events!:thumbsup:

The rudest and most outrageous comments I've ever heard were in Vegas by the way. Not from locals, but tourists. Probably drunk at that.:drink:


This is a great question. Let me first get this out of the way: we?re going to assume that your presentation is good and your clothing choices are not overly flamboyant. This is not a comment on how well you pass.
-------------------------------------
I'm sorry, Angela, but this is TOTALLY about passing and "dressing to blend". It's MIAD's that can't ever pass, period, that have these problems. Those of u that mite pass occasionally or r willing to cover up like your grannie to avoid attention, have no idea what it's like having people gawking, eye rolling, and chuckling at u every minute you're out dressed!:doh:

[Jenny22]

Val, that's a good question, and there are many answers. Some are essentially the same, just stated differently. If you make a reasonably good presentation and have dressed to blend, there should be few negatives cast your way. When they are, look the person in the eyes and give them a big disarming smile. Works every time. People may well talk about you after they have moved on, but so what! You don't know them nor they you,

[Val_Blackbird]

Thanks, everyone, so far.

I'm not 100% sure how to address the passing issue. I feel like my one real advantage in that regard is that I'm about 5 feet tall flat on my feet. So, even in my highest heels, I'm shorter than a lot, if not most, women, lol. :D But, that said, I'm also about 20 pounds heavy, and I have oddly large biceps for someone who doesn't work out and never has. :strugglin I don't feel like I have a very fem face, especially my monstrous nose. (I know it's a good pic, but you don't see all the bad ones it takes to get the good one.) I can maybe pass at about 20 - 30 feet, but not close up. No way. To how I dress, it's nothing too far out. Maybe it would work better on someone about 10-15 years younger (I'm about to be 39), but it's mostly leggings and body suits. I'm too fat to have too much hanging out. :tongueout I think I dress mostly appropriately, not anything clown-like, at least in my opinion. I know we're not really supposed ot post pics, so I won't, but I think I pull it off reasonably well for someone almost 40. :)

Besides the obvious safety concerns - particularly right now, with many people being over-stressed and looking for someone to release upon - I just don't do well with being the center of negative attention. I don't necessarily need the world to love me (in RL, a lot of people really hate me, seriously), but there's just something about public humiliation that is a borderline phobia for me. Now, perhaps that makes me . . . crazy? Selfish? Immature? Hell, I don't know. I just know it's not something I can just blow off and go "oh, that's funny." No. Not at all.

[Di]

Bit of advice I used to give Sherlyn when she first started going out.
Practice /start walking around with your shoulders rolled back. This motion naturally raises your chin and helps you move around as tall as you can be. ... Then imagine how the most confident person in the world walks into a room ? then act more confident than that. Picture it and just act it till it becomes natural.
We had a friend who we watched walking into a club....head darting around all nervous and when you do that people do look like ....what in the world is wrong? Something is not right .
Not saying you do that lol but just giving an extreme example.
You are not doing anything wrong, hold your head up and be confident and I do not think you will get negative attention then.

[Shelly Preston]

Passing is actually more about confidence than anything else.

Also remember they may be staring because they see an attractive woman.

I recall one time I was walking towards a shopping area when I saw a guy watching me when I was around 80 ft away. He opened the door for which I smiled and thanked him. I was convinced he just wanted a closer look at me.

Yes the posture and the correct outfit for the occasion will help.

As for danger levels you have to consider where you are time of day the risks involved as a genetic woman would.

At night this usually means staying in well lit areas, maybe taking a cab to your next destination etc.

[Stephanie47]

Maybe I should not be posting to this thread because you are asking a question to those who venture outside their home. I do go out on occasion but I choose when and where to keep everything within my comfort zone. An evening stroll once in a while is enough to satisfy pent up frustrations. Correct me if I am wrong. Your pictures says to me you're an African American. I have an African American son-in-law and thus a mixed race grandson. He's a great guy. He has been harassed and singled out for special attention many times. It is frustrating for him. His mother had "The Talk" every Black parent gives their child. He knows he will have to give "The Talk" to his son.

When I read of transwomen or MtF cross dressers being assaulted and worse it is usually an African American. If this does not play in the back of your mind tell me I am wrong. A few of my Black family members have lived in Las Vegas and all was not peaches and cream. I'm six foot and 200 pounds. My chances are a lot better when it comes to avoiding unwanted harassment.

Your concern and how you feel is definitely not stupid. Your comments are totally valid. I wish it was different, but it is not.

[Marianne S]

...when I went to a tourist attraction with a lot of Americans. No comments but lots of stares and double-takes. Are Americans just rude? Brits are cool and take it all in their stride.

Well, British people are customarily polite anyway, and reserved in their reactions. You can't tell what they might be thinking though, even if they're not showing it.


...some people have never seen a CDer / TG person , sometimes they mean no harm but take a second look out of curiosity .

I'm sure that's very true. I can hardly recall seeing a CDer/TG person out in public myself. Of course, if the person passes well I wouldn't notice anyway!

I've been out in public only a handful of times, including a couple of times with my wife, but I haven't noticed any stares myself. Behind my back, possibly...!


...this is TOTALLY about passing and "dressing to blend". It's MIAD's that can't ever pass, period, that have these problems. [...] ...people gawking, eye rolling, and chuckling...

I don't have the experience to judge that, but I can certainly believe it! "Passing" and "dressing to blend" are two separate things, but they do have something in common, namely congruity.

Unfortunately people's tendency to laugh is involuntary and instinctive. Our minds are programmed to identify and classify things. Children are familiar with cats and dogs, but a small child will laugh spontaneously at a picture of a dog that says "Meow" instead of "Woof woof." Is it a dat or a cog? The two things don't fit, and we laugh at what seems incongruous. When we can't categorize something it causes cognitive dissonance. When it comes to people, it has been well said that "a person's sex is the first thing we notice... and the last thing we forget!" People's minds instinctively tend to register which sex a person is, or appears to be. If the person can't be categorized because the clues are too flagrantly in conflict, cognitive dissonance again results, and the incongruity can evoke laughter.

I'm sure there are plenty of ordinary people out in public with what I'd call a "quietly androgynous" appearance, where we might have to look twice to determine whether we think that's a man or a woman. Nobody would laugh at them, because the clues to their anatomical sex are weak and don't present significant conflict. But if the clues are both bold and contradictory, that's what evokes stares, headshaking and possibly laughter.

I mentioned that I can hardly recall noticing any crossdressers or transpeople out in public, but one that I did see still sticks in my mind after thirty years or so. He--I have to say "he" because he was so obviously male--was waiting at a gate in Chicago's O'Hare airport. He was young and muscular with short blond hair, a "butch" haircut, a tight T-shirt that showed off his barrel chest, but with some feminine design on it, tight women's shorts in some feminine color that only revealed how masculine his hairy legs were, sparkly women's sandals with colored nail polish on finger and toenails. and a touch of makeup on his face. The whole getup was such a deliberately flamboyant mixture of masculine and feminine that I had to think (call it "prejudice" if you like), "Gender be damned; that guy has to be gay to dress in such an 'in your face' fashion." I didn't want to be rude--and very likely he was courting attention anyway--but since we were waiting for the same flight, I couldn't help casting covert glances at him whenever I thought he wasn't looking, wondering to myself "Is he for real?" He would have been far less conspicuous if he was wearing a dress!

The lesson is obvious. We may get clocked anyway, but the more discreet, tasteful and "congruous" we are with those around, the less our chance of evoking embarrassing ridicule.

[susan54]

No, it isn't totally about passing. I occasionally wear a skirt or dress while presenting as a man. No one cares and people try not to stare. I remember once being stared at by a young boy in a supermarket but I think it was just curiosity and he had probably never seen anything like this before. The nearest I got to negative feedback was actually from a woman shop owner in the same village. She looked me up and down with a sneer on her face and walked away shaking her head. Others in the same village told she is notorious for her rudeness. I think the reference to BAME is relevant here to put this in proportion. Crossdressers seem to be accepted but thee is still some work to do on wider tolerance.

[Teresa]

Di,
If only we all had your support behind us in the RW .

I do agree with the nervous, twitchy look attracting attention .

Just to emphasise the point about confidence , I hadn't been attending my painting group very long as Teresa ( Terri to them ) , I always arrive early to set out the tables and chairs and distribute the easels for ones that use them . As I was busying myself an new member entered the room and immediately assumed I was the tutor , I explained the situation but at no time did I get the impression I was anything but what she saw . I admit it did feel good and at the time a nice confidence boost . ( My avatar was taken in the art room by a good friend )

Sometimes it feels like a " Chicken and egg " situation , you need to get out in the RW to get confidence but you need the confidence to do it the first few times .

Val,
When we talk about passing it raises the question "What as ? " People will see something different , so I'm now happy to say I pass as Teresa , what they see me as is not always under my control but it works for me .

[MonicaPVD]

No one is entirely impervious to criticism or ridicule but you really have to consider the source. Teenagers in groups and ignorant blue collar men are the only people I have ever had stare or comment. Even those instances have been few and far between. Another thing to consider is that the world is full of people who are inappropriate or uncouth, and will stare at anyone and/or comment on their appearance, regardless of gender. I have seen people do this to men, women, even beautiful men and women. Some people are just ignorant. Finally, there are plenty of men who will stare uncomfortably at any woman. It's just part of what women have to deal with on a daily basis. Once you accept these facts, you will be able to just be yourself and not get hung up by any of it.

[Marianne S]

When I read of transwomen or NtF cross dressers being assaulted and worse it is usually an African American. If this does not play in the back of your mind tell me I am wrong.

Bearing in mind that I have no personal experience of this, I'd like to offer two comments: the bad news and the good news as I understand it.

The bad news: I have heard that the black community--males in particular--are more hostile toward male homosexuality than whites are. Of course we all know that crossdressing and transgenderism doesn't have to be about being "gay," but too many people in general don't know that and are inclined to equate any hint of femininity with "gayness." So there may well be more hostility toward crossdressers and transpeople on those grounds in the African-American community.

There are groups like HRC (https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2019) highlighting violence and murder of transpeople--nearly all transwomen--and what they report bears out what you said: that a preponderance of victims seem to be African-American. But of course there is far more violence overall in the impoverished sector of that community. Regardless of color, it depends where anyone lives and what their socioeconomic status is.

The better news--not exactly "good" news--is that looking more closely into the victims and circumstances of this violence suggests that many of these transwomen were operating as prostitutes, and prostitution is a notoriously hazardous profession in itself, risking violence not only from "clients," but from pimps and street robbers who in poor communities would roll any woman for the money she'd earned. That's quite apart from drug connections, gangs and the rest of it. I also understand that some poorer transwomen resort to prostitution because it's their only way to earn money for surgery. That's bad news for any "sex worker," but it's more reassuring news for anyone who avoids the "oldest profession" and the risks it entails.

Overall, and ignoring issues of race, my calculations are that transwomen on average might actually be less prone to be murdered (at least) than the average man! Males of course are far more prone to be murdered than females are. For instance, in 2018, 10.914 males were murdered, compared with only 3,180 females (FBI figures): nearly three and a half times as many males as females (including children). That gives a murder rate for males of about 6.9 per 100,000, compared with only 1.9 per 100,000 for females. If I take the Williams Institute's figure that 0.6 percent of adults identify as transgender, and HRC's report of 26 transwomen murdered in 2018 out of an adult male population of about 124 million, this suggests the murder rate for transwomen overall is about 3.5 per 100,000--much better than for the average man. Of course this may be an underestimate, with deaths of transwomen going unrecorded by HRC. But it could also mean that transwomen in general are better at staying out of trouble than the average man!

[Krisi]

If you're being stared at or laughed at, it's certainly disappointing, but it means that you are not passing as a woman. Go home and take some photos of yourself from all angles. Take a video if you can. Now sit down and study your photos and video. Are your boobs to big or too high on your chest? Are your hips too narrow for a woman? Is your makeup too gaudy or overdone? Is your beard shadow showing? Are you wearing six inch heels to the mall?

Whatever it is (and it could be multiple things), work on it. If you look like a normal woman, nobody will stare or laugh.

[char GG]

Moderator note:

Let's keep this thread on track. Stick to the OP's comments or the thread will have to be closed or posts may be deleted.

[looking_good]

Blackbird - thanks for opening up on a really good question...and there is a lot of wisdom in the answers given. My take is a little different and reflects a bit about where I am on my journey. Have you thought much about why you want to go out? Is it because you are somewhere on the spectrum of 'this is who I am and I want go forward this way' or is it something else? I'm in the 'something else' category. I'd find myself getting dressed and then having a 'well, now what do I do?" moment. I've found that doing some writing, or driving-while-dressed with some discrete, short strolls have worked wonders. I had a fixation on going grocery shopping while dressed for the longest time, but it was all the worry and none of the benefits for me. So I eventually let it go. Yay me!

I know this is a lot of 'me' stuff, but my thought is if one clearly understands their own 'why' behind going out, the path forward may bit a bit clearer. Hope this is helpful to you in some way.

Cheers!

[phili]

Hi Val,
The coin of gender has two faces - internal and external, and in this metaphor, sometimes the two faces face each other. What I mean is that we have a sense of our own gender, and we feel right looking in the mirror. But the look we are expressing is one that we have seen others express in public, and we liked it and identified with it.

The problem, of course, is that for male crossdressers the external expressions of gender we have seen and admired are part of our society's 'acceptable' public expression range for females. The underlying social construct is that feminine clothing expression is allowed for females and not for males. Social norms like this with regard to gender expression are heavily enforced in people's lives, so those of us who want to break or stretch these norm encounter resistance and pay penalties where people can impose them on us.

Except for those who succeed at passing, our collective problem as CDs is that we will experience minority stress over this, generally, And we will have to manage in the face of penalties. And this in addition to any other individualized minority stresses we feel from being perceived as different from 'the norm' in other ways.

Your OP says that not caring what others think is not an option. I think when some of us say we don't care we mean that we have understood that the ways others deal with their discomfort around us has turned out not to matter in a practical way most of the time. It is not much fun to be out trying to enjoy a summer day at the cafe if the person at the next table is expressing their discomfort. But then the server comes over and is friendly, and we realize we can forget about the person who is unhappy.

It is crucially important not to feel like prey, or behave like prey, as that excites predators. But in public settings, if we don't pick fights, and are just as normal as anyone can be in terms of courtesy and not making an issue of our gender expression, even in small towns people realize we are just one more specimen of humanity.

There isn't anyone in America who didn't hear about Caitlin Jenner or Jazz Jennings, or David Bowie, or some of the various celebrities who are remarking on gender freedom, so we are recognized instantly by everyone as one of the gender variants. I have come to feel that the only people who are unpleasant to me are the ones who feel entitled to pronounce judgment publicly, or throw their weight around when they can. But the average citizen doesn't support that, and they soon realize they are making a spectacle of themselves for their rudeness or intolerance. I am kind to anyone who is scared of me, or teens who laugh, or frowning sales people- but I rarely have to.

Minority stress is going to be there. I accept it as a minor tax on the wonderful joy of finally being out and expressing myself - which is truly a deep release and very beneficial.

[Robertacd]

A couple verses in "Turn The Page" come to mind....

Well you walk into a restaurant
Strung out from the road
And you feel the eyes upon you
As you're shakin' off the cold
You pretend it doesn't bother you
But you just want to explode

Most times you can't hear 'em talk
Other times you can
All the same old cliche's
"Is that a woman or a man?"
You always seem outnumbered
You don't dare make a stand...

Who would have thought that song was really about being trans? :eek::heehee:

[Jean 103]

I deal with it in different ways. Sometimes it helps to talk about it before locking it away.

For the most part I don't have any problems. That includes Vegas, I have been twice and will be there for Halloween this year.

People stare at me all the time, I'm use to it. It is what I expect, I don't dress to hide. I dress to express myself, this is me. I do look for approval of my friends (GGs).

There is a support group there in Vegas, They seemed like a very good group, welcoming. They maintain a drop in center. They are probably closed now, but when this clears you should check them out if you haven't already.

[Aunt Kelly]

If you're among those who regularly go out in public, how do you deal with the inevitable stares, glares, chuckles, etc.?

First of all, the glaring and gaping are not that frequent. OK, those parts of Las Vegas where the tourist traffic is heavy may be an exception, but most people, by far, will treat you as your presentation and behavior dictate. No, really...

Somewhere on this forum is a thread about the time a friend and I stopped at a barbecue joint in Mason, TX. Mason is as stereotypical, red-state-small-town as you can get. Long story short, it was a non-event (other than some pretty respectable brisket). No, I did not "pass". I was one of two not AFAB women in an establishment full of rednecks. I did not have to pass because most people are bound by the social contract that commands civility. Yes, even deep in the heart of Texas. :)

Yes, there have been other times where an individual abandoned standard decorum and outright stared/glared. I love those moments, for a couple of reasons. One, there's that slightly twisted part of me that delights in making assholes feel uncomfortable, so I'll make eye-contact and give them my biggest, sweetest, Aunt Kelly smile. The reactions are priceless. Two, it's an opportunity to normalize us in the eyes of those who are still ignorant and fearful. Almost every time, that smile has caused them to break eye contact, and look down. You can almost see the wheels turning as they realize that they have been hating on someone that nobody else in the place has a problem with. That's a win, albeit a small one.

That's how we make change happen; by being out there and making that "normal" for those who don't yet understand that it is.

[Star01]

Whenever this topic comes up for discussion it becomes obvious after reading a handful of replies that going out in public dressed as a woman is a lot like real estate. Location, location, location. If I lived in LA or New York things might be a lot different than living in a small town. I think location and personal circumstances set the stage for being seen in public. By that I mean that someone in say LA is going to have much easier time of it than us small town folks. In my case my forays out in public have been briefly standing on my deck after dark or taking a short drive down the highway past corn fields. It's a night and day difference compared to what some experience.

[Maid_Marion]

I'm lucky to live in a very liberal area. If anything I get more respect presenting as female than male. Both when shopping and when I could do that, eating out.

I am good with young kids, so they aren't an issue when I'm shopping at Target. I realize that is a huge confidence test for some.

Marion

[michelleddg]

Hi Val, welcome, and thanks for so openly sharing your thoughts. I've been making annual one week girlcations to Las Vegas for many years, So, happy to share some thoughts. Yes, for sure, things are quite conservative off The Strip. However, I've done all sorts of things off The Strip - shopping, nails, hair, makeup, dining - and never been called out. On The Strip I budget for about one call out per week. Typical are the kiosk guys at The Fashion Mall who are both bored out of their minds and have trained eyes.

With experience comes confidence, and with confidence the shackles come off. So, hang in there, baby steps. What I will tell you is this - I'm six feet so I know I draw attention. Six feet girls draw attention. If I were five feet like you I'd own the place. It's your secret sauce, girlfriend, your super power. Yes, lots of girls are five feet but very few boys.

Lastly, if you'd like some expert feedback on your presentation check in with Amy Lamb and/or Stephanie Danderson, they are both great local friends of the community, tell 'em your close personal friend Michelle sent you. And, if you'd like contact info for some of the world's greatest makeup artistes send me an IM. So good to know your ultimate beauty potential, pick up invaluable tips and tricks, and expand your friend base. Good luck, have fun! Hugs, Michelle

[Angie G]

Val there are no stupid questions. Don't feel stupid. If that's the way you are it's hot a bad it's what makes you uniquely you never apologize for that. Nothing we can tell you will change that. Just keep on being your beautiful self.:hugs:
Angie

[Val_Blackbird]

Thanks, again.

[Asew]

When I read the title I thought about how us being out is like public relations for the all the CDers / TG / etc. I feel when I go out I could be positively impacting someone, either making them more accepting or being a role model with someone who is still early in their path. So overall I think just by doing your best when dressed and ignoring the haters, we can be a positive light on our community for society. It sucks to experience the dislike or even hate, but hopefully we can make more progress overall.

[Micki_Finn]

The safety issue you bring up is very real and too often dismissed by members here. Trans women are being murdered across the country. That’s the bad news. The GOOD news is that they aren’t being snatched off the street in broad daylight or shot dead in public. If you stick to well lit public areas with people around, you’ll generally be safe from physical harm.

[docrobbysherry]

Val, I believe u r mistaken about photos. After u have 10 posts, which u do, u can add a relevant photo to this, or most any thread. :battingeyelashes:

That means u can post your photos in the "Photo Section" here, too!:thumbsup:

[Sometimes Steffi]

Most times I go out dressed, I'm with a fairly large group of CD/TG girls. Very few people mess with us. There's strength in numbers. I also know that a lot of the girls in the group are military, ex-military, or law enforcement. I expect some of them are quite capable of handling any male threat that might appear. And I know that they would have my back if I got into trouble.

There were a couple of times that I went with a group of CD/TG girls when "male admirers" were invited. I'm married and attracted to women anyhow, so my plan was to just hang with the girls. No "admirer" hit on me. Maybe it was just that I wasn't "pretty enough" for them, but I would like to believe it was my icy stare. There was one SO of a CD/TG who was quite attractive, and was really creeped out by all the attention she was getting. I stayed with her at the bar and protected her from any admirers who might have thought that she was a very passable CD.

My best defense is to confidently look them right in the eyes with a huge smile, including a smile with the eyes also. It's intended to, "OK, you made me. So what." The message I try to get across is, "I'm happy with how I look, and I look like me." I want them to see that I'm not at all embarrassed with dressing up like a girl. I'm not afraid of you. Go find someone else to harass." And if thing get bad, remember that the bouncer is your friend.

My daughter is not afraid of bring the fight to them. She told me recently about an encounter that she had at a bar with a guy. She was dancing and the guy was "dirty dancing" behind her. She managed to create a little separation and gave him a hard back kick in the groin (if you catch my drift). Properly placed and plenty hard enough to send him to the floor rolling around it pain. My daughter went back to her group and they made a protective ring around her. The guy eventually left on his own.

Later she told the bouncer what happened. He said, "Where is he?" She told him, "Don't worry. I took care of it myself, but I'll let you know if he comes back."

Now, on the other hand, I can't tell you how many great and wonderful experiences I've had with GGs, individually and collectively. Sometimes they're just curious, and other times they're jealous because we all appear to be having such a good time. There were even a few occasions where a group of teenage GGs joined up with us, either for talking, photos or Karaoke.

[Suranne]

Val, sadly there's no easy answer to this. You either go out full of confidence, taking the due amount of care, and enjoy being out, owning the space, or you don't. There's no fault either way and I've been on both sides. I've been there, full of dread, fearing the consequences of people in the real world "seeing", "knowing" and worse. But, no, it doesn't (for me in the UK), happen like that. People don't care, they're not bothered, they're too wrapped up in the next thing that they're doing to pay any attention to those around them. Also, if you hear people laugh, if you hear people make comments, if you think that people stare, they maybe, just maybe they're not laughing at you, maybe they're not staring at you, maybe they're not commenting on you. It's a big one to get over, but when we're out, it's not all about us.

Try this for instance - go out, not dressed but in drab mode, just go for a drive, go for a ride on a bus, go to a mall, go walkabout, just be outside, doing normal things in a normal way, and when you get back try and remember how many people you saw, it'll be very few if any that you remember. OK, those that you interact with directly, you stand a good chance of remembering, but then try as think what did they look like exactly. Chances are you won't remember them too clearly. As for people that you pass in the street, they'll all just be gone from your memory. Also, when you're out take note of how people act, how they laugh, how they chat, how they look at stare, and grow to realise that a lot of what you think is happening happens anyway. No, it's not easy, there is no easy way around this as it cuts to your most deep seated fears and sense of security and personal safety. But it is doable and I wish you well should you try to get over it. Remember too, with this, there is no right and there is no wrong, we can only do what is correct for us as individuals. Also, as I say I'm in the UK which might just be different to where you are. Stay safe and all the best.

[Cheryl T]

The first time I stepped into the light and went out in public I was not nervous, I was PETRIFIED!!
I went shopping with my wife to a mall in another state to minimize the chance that someone we knew would be there and recognize her or I. I spent so much time getting ready and dressed "average" so as to blend in.

When we arrived we had to take the elevator from the parking deck. There was an older couple in the elevator and when we exited my wife asked if I saw how they looked at me. I stared straight ahead and didn't even see it. Then we walked about for some time and finally sat for a moment. As everyone passed by I would watch them from the corner of my eye to see who stared, laughed, pointed and such. No one did. They were all so involved in their own life they practically ignored me. As we walked more I saw the same result. Yes, there were a few stares (I'm 6' tall) and a few giggles, but for the most part No Reaction.
Then we went into a Dress Barn. My wife went to try on something and I "hid" behind the jewelry display. Didn't work. The sales associate came over to me and said "would you like to try something on? Is there something your interested in? Can I help you find something?". I just wanted to hide. Then she brings out a chair and places it right by the entrance to the dressing rooms and says I can sit there if I like. She was so nice, but to me was doing everything that would expose me. Actually she was doing everything I wished she would do and that I wanted to do but was afraid to do.
Well, about a year after that we joined a Tir-Ess group. After the first meeting one of the girls said, "ok, who's going to the diner?" I said what the heck. The people there saw us as customers. The owner and staff treated us like royalty. It was wonderful!
After that one of the girls would join my wife and I and we would go to a different mall every few weeks shopping.
Now years later I go anywhere anytime, alone or with others. Yes, I'm sure I get a stare or a giggle yet. People always stare if you are too tall, too short, too skinny, too fat, too Something. It's human nature.
My tip ... OWN IT!.
When you go somewhere be confident. Carry yourself with pride. Not show off pride, but pride that I belong here as much as anyone. Go about your business and disregard them. Don't watch them watching you. Let them be the lesser persons. Just be yourself and hold your head up.

As to the danger, yes there is always a level of danger. Perhaps more so because of homophobia, but you can lessen that by being aware of your surroundings. Take the same precautions any woman would. Avoid, dark secluded areas. Go with someone else there is safety in numbers. Just don't put yourself in a position to be in danger. If the area is not the best then perhaps carry pepper spray.

If I haven't frightened you away then hold your pretty chin high, walk proudly and remember that you have every right to be there just as much as anyone else.

[Helen_Highwater]

I don't feel like I have a very fem face, especially my monstrous nose. (I know it's a good pic, but you don't see all the bad ones it takes to get the good one.) I can maybe pass at about 20 - 30 feet, but not close up. No way. .

Val,

Reading the comment about your nose suggests to me that you're already, even in drab, self conscious about your appearance and hence it's not unsurprising for this to be heightened when going out




I'm not 100% sure how to address the passing issue. I feel like my one real advantage in that regard is that I'm about 5 feet tall flat on my feet. So, even in my highest heels, I'm shorter than a lot, if not most, women, lol. :D But, that said, I'm also about 20 pounds heavy, and I have oddly large biceps for someone who doesn't work out and never has.

Again, there's this focus on what you see as negatives which ties in with my comment above. large arms? There's lots of GG's who shall we say, over indulge a little and carry a few pounds so you're not that unusual.

As males we nearly all have features that signal that fact. The trick is to hide them as best as you can. As for passing, very few of us do certainly close up. The trick is to be able to look convincing enough to hide in plain sight in a crowd. If you say what you wear might be better suited for someone younger then change what you wear to reflect the age group you're in.

When I first started going out one of the first things I realised was that most folks are so busy with their own lives 90% don't even look at others and the more I looked like the other women of my age the less was looked at.

I would advise posting in the pics section you wearing what you would normally wear if going out. Wig, forms, makeup, the whole package, ask for constructive criticism and await the comments. You may be somewhat surprised by the relies.

[AngelaYVR]

Val, you have a whole team of cheerleaders rooting for you! Hopefully you take everyone up on their offers, this is what this site is for!

[MaryAnn1963]

Val, I know where you are coming from. I used to be VERY self conscious about my self in male mode so forget about how I felt as Mary Ann! I won't sugar coat this (because I'm not Willy Wonka) but there are no easy answers to this. CDs are a very small minority which makes us "not normal" by most other people's standards. People react differently to things that are not normal. Some fear it, some shy away from it, some lash out as a defense mechanism to it, some embrace it. There is good and bad news about that... 1st the bad; you are NOT going to change how people react to you being dressed as a women. 2nd the good; you have the ability to change how you respond to their reaction. If it pleases you to go out in public dressed as a woman, then you will have to master how you respond to the looks etc. Remember, you are not out there to please them, only yourself.
It does take some time to be comfortable dressed in public. Think of it like learning to ride a bike.. start on a tricycle... go out in women's jeans. No big deal, 99.9% will not notice, but you know. Then you get your two wheeler with training wheels... Jeans and heels (go with a wedge, they don't make as much noise).. a little bit more of a big deal. Someone might notice, probably a GG who is admiring your shoes! Next take the training wheels off. Jeans, heels (not too big), clear polish on your nails and maybe some mascara. Still most (96%) won't know, but you will! See, you are getting comfortable doing what was very uncomfortable. You are expanding your comfort zone and you will begin to care less about what others think (it really doesn't matter any way) and feel better about you. Now lets take one hand off of the handlebars... You are gaining confidence. Same stuff as before but add makeup (not to bright), a wig and nail polish. Go some where with out too many people to get comfortable with yourself first. Then start venturing in to places with more and more people. As you get comfortable with your self you will act with more confidence and stand out less. Ok, it's time to ride that bike with no hands... A dress/skirt, pantyhose, heels that make noise, wig, makeup, nails, purse... the whole enchilada. Go somewhere to get comfortable with yourself first, then once you have accomplished that, you are ready for the real world now girl. (BTW... a vast majority of the people are so wrapped up in what they are doing that you are practically invisible):heehee:
Honey, you don't cook a bullfrog by throwing it into a pot of boiling water, you put it in a pot of cool water and turn up the heat little by little. Before you know it, he's cooked.
That's just my 2 cents... ok, probably 50 cents, but keep the change.

[Jennylace]

you are very correct because with time it becomes more of she then he in the main role for me it's been years since I have worn anything slightly male and now I have no clue what a male is supposed to act like. having a wife that has promoted me being who I am is the greatest treasure one could ever cherish.

[rian]

Regretfully , I m one of the people that is scared to confront the public due to the reasons you mentioned ,,,too scary to be bombarded with stares , glares ,,,,it is so shameful to my heart to except ....I will stay in a closed spaces for safety ....

[Alice_2014_B]

It is easy to say, "just ignore them."
I started, like many, with small steps.
Next thing I know I'm doing stand-up fully dressed up in heels.
Safety is of course number 1, you're correct.

Feel free to PM me with questions.

:)

[MonicaPVD]

Who are the unfortunate transwomen being murdered? They have common denominators. Young, poor, mostly urban, often women of color, often involved in the sex trade in order to survive, living on the fringes of society. It's heartbreaking and wrong. However, no one is killing middle aged crossdressers or transwomen with stable households and jobs.


The safety issue you bring up is very real and too often dismissed by members here. Trans women are being murdered across the country. That’s the bad news. The GOOD news is that they aren’t being snatched off the street in broad daylight or shot dead in public. If you stick to well lit public areas with people around, you’ll generally be safe from physical harm.

[Sheren Kelly]

Attitude is everything! You must believe in yourself if you want to go out to the world. Others can sense your insecurity and that gives them the opening to demean you.
If you accept their judgements, then that is on you. I prefer to consider that their reaction to me reflects their insecurities and that allows me to stare them down.
To restate what Char has said, you can only control your actions.
As for safety, I stop being a lady once there is a physical threat.

[Genifer Teal]

Interesting comment to follow. My biggest issue (literally) is my height. I'm super tall and love heels. They had to be part of this. There is no way i can enter a room unnoticed.
I decided early on they're going to know. I could be ok with that if their next thought was, she looks good. I've always strived to keep my look on point and appropriate (maybe not the heels). Cowering in the corner wasn't going to help my situation. I decided I had to push myself to walk into the room like I own it. Not overly so, just like I belonged there. I think what really helped is all the great people I've met and experiences I've had over the years. It makes the few bad experiences or people easier to brush off. If you are afraid it probably shows in your demeanor. Others will sense that and it will hurt your overall presence. It can be a chicken before the egg situation. You kind of have to fake some confidence before you see that it works and actually gain some confidence. I don't think there's any real tips for it other than positive experiences building on each other. Once you get your feet wet in the right way it's easier to jump all in. Until then the water can feel too cold to even attempt it.

[MonicaPVD]

100% agree. When we are nervous, lurking in the corners or freaking out we are sending out all kinds of mixed signals with our body language and eye contact. We are unwittingly telling others that something is not right in the Matrix. This draws undue attention to us. When you gain confidence, you almost become invisible. Just another woman who may be a little large or ackward or whatever, but just another woman no less. Carry on!


Attitude is everything! You must believe in yourself if you want to go out to the world. Others can sense your insecurity and that gives them the opening to demean you.
If you accept their judgements, then that is on you. I prefer to consider that their reaction to me reflects their insecurities and that allows me to stare them down.
To restate what Char has said, you can only control your actions.
As for safety, I stop being a lady once there is a physical threat.

[Sheren Kelly]

Here's a tip: Make friends with a Drag Queen. They can teach you everything you need to know about attitude, they literally are "Fearless"
I've seen more than one stare down a bully and force them to back off.

[Crissy 107]

Attitude is everything! You must believe in yourself if you want to go out to the world. Others can sense your insecurity and that gives them the opening to demean you.
If you accept their judgements, then that is on you. I prefer to consider that their reaction to me reflects their insecurities and that allows me to stare them down.
To restate what Char has said, you can only control your actions.
As for safety, I stop being a lady once there is a physical threat.
This is a great post and is right on the money. This also applies to life in general. Thanks Sheren