How often is too often?

[MichaelM]

TLDR: How often is it reasonable for me to underdress when I've just come out to my wife who disapproves?

Once a week?
Twice a week?
Should there be no restrictions?
Should I ask for permission?

Longer version:

I've mentioned elsewhere that I came out to my wife near the start of lockdown. I did so partly due to the stress of lying to her for a few years about my crossdressing but also the stress of knowing that I was going to have no chance to crossdress whilst stuck at home for the immediate future.

I stopped all CDing as my wife didn't want me to do anything, whether she was in the house or not. I respected her view on this and did nothing for a number of months.

However, after a number of months, she relented and allowed me to underdress in tights/nylons.

Given the opportunity and lack of CDing, I perhaps went overboard and underdressed for three days in a row. To be fair, I do so to relieve stress and she allowed me as she knew how stressed I had become.

This was too much for my wife. She lost it and seemed to pull back on our relationship citing that given an inch, I've taken a mile.

So question to all you lovely people, having recently (<6 months) come out to a wife, how often do you think would be too often to underdress?
Am I being unreasonable by trying to do so on my terms?
Should I ask my wife for permission every time I want to undress?
Should I just go ahead and do it and deal with the fall out?

Unfortunately there's no manual to tell you how to act with your spouse after announcing that they like to CD. Funny that!

I'm sorry if I don't reply as I don't get much chance to check this site but any comments are gratefully (and normally late at night with no prying eyes) received.

[Aunt Kelly]

You might get consensus, more or less, by asking here, but that will likely be meaningless to your wife, Michael. An "acceptable" frequency is something that you will have to work out between the two of you.

[Di]

As a. GG it will not matter what anyone here says it is between you and your wife. Do not promise to stop as that will not happen. ( for long anyways) Some underdress every day , others never do ( my Sher could care less or understand underdressing)
It is a personal thing between you two.What you need and what she is ok with.

Add
You said in another post The following
I've suggested that she gets counselling to help her through this. She's got no one to talk to about it and I'm asking her to accept something about my lifestyle that hasn't been there before.

You need.
to talk and explain or suggest to see the counselor with you or have her join here .
We do have a GG group for her to talk to.

[Stephanie47]

Suggest to your wife she should join with the GG's on this forum. Your wife has already accused you of "give him an inch, he takes a mile." You probably can imagine she is thinking ultimately you're going to want to sit around totally en femme with wig and makeup. Counseling would be helpful for her and you to understand what and why you are doing what you;re doing.

How often is too much or too little? If I want I wear a women's nylon brief every day in white or black. My wife is not frisking me on a daily basis, although that's not a bad idea.

[Teresa]

Michaelm,
As far as your wife is concerned the obvious answer is not at all if she was being honest with you .

The problem is you are suggesting you can take it or leave it as far as your wife is concerned so she may ask why do you need to do it at all ?

I underdressed without my wife's knowledge but it wasn't enough so I had to find ways to work round the DADT problem and that's a slippery slope because it's then continual lies and deceit .

There are manuals or more to the point publications that can help along with counselling , we all know the problem isn't going to go away , it has to be dealt with openly and honestly eventually .

[confused_cathreen]

I agree with the above, too often according to whom? You will always think it's never enough and she will always think it's always too often. It's a matter of perspective. You really need to be talking to your wife. But doing what you want without considering the consequences seems like a recipe for disaster to me. Maybe think about things she might want to do that you don't like and how understanding you would be if she just went ahead and did them anyway without really caring about what you thought. Wouldn't really scream "I value our relationship", would it? Good luck.

[Maid_Marion]

My wife suggested I wear women's clothes, as she knew I was transgender.
I have amazing diet, exercise, and hygiene routines. I have the same waistline I had when I was twenty.
We talked about it and set some boundaries. No HRT without further discussion.
She thought it was fine if I decided to wear panties and grow out my hair.

This was as I was approaching 50, and she was worried about the image I was presenting at work.
It quickly became obvious that I needed the flexibility of wearing women's clothes to look good.
She used to be able to sew but disability robbed her of that skill. Through ebay I got a nice selection
of J Crew Women's tops, size small, which worked out really well for me.
This was before the quality of that brand declined.

Her intuition was spot on. I'm on of the few that are still on staff ten years later.

Marion

[Micki_Finn]

That’s something you need to talk to HER about as every spouse has different tolerance levels. You probably don’t need to ask for permission every time (unless that’s what she has in mind) as long as work out clear boundaries with her.

You say she relented and have you permission to underdress. It’s entirely possible she meant only that one time she gave you specific permission. If she just expected you to read her mind to know what she considers reasonable, that’s just not going to happen. So yeah, talk to her, lay down clear rules about what, where, when, and how often.

[Jodie_Lynn]

Do NOT seek or take the advice of any here.

The ONLY person you need to discuss this with, is your wife. You live with her, she with you. IF you wish to remain married, hers is the only counsel you need heed.

If the two of you lived together for 100 years, you would still not be able to read her thoughts, nor she yours. Verbal communication is the only way to proceed.

If you truly love her, and she you, you will reach a state of compromise and equilibrium. If that isn't possible, be prepared to either give up your femme self, or your marriage.

[docrobbysherry]

Sounds like, "Once", is too much to me! U and your spouse need therapy ASAP.:doh:

Or, a year from now she may be your ex and u may put underdressing in the same category as bike training wheels!:heehee:

[Teresa]

Jodie,
I don't get that comment , MichaelM asked the question to try and find a different point of view , she may read a comment that really does help .

Personally I'm in a far better place now because I asked questions on the forum and decided what might work for me , surely that is what CDers. com is all about .

[Rachel05]

Based on my own personal experiences with a wife who thoroughly disapproved of my cross dressing, when she found out, there was no way she would have been happy with once in forever, it would not have been a once or twice a week, she just disapproved and did not care one jot about my feelings, to her it was a disgusting thing to want to do, so why would she be happy to let it happen

I am no longer with said wife, not over cross dressing, but I am guessing that it didn't help in the long run

[Miel GG]

No one can answer to that question... Except your wife and you.

Be prepared to have long talks if you want to build an acceptable agreement for both of you and save your relationship.

Good luck.

[GretchenM]

Go to the thread "The Talk, Chapter 2" by SometimesSteffi. Steffi has a similar problem. For my opinion, read my post there. It applies just as well to you MichaelM as it does to her. I involves establishing boundaries to provide room in the relationship for each of you to be yourselves while considering the needs of the other. It needs to remain flexible so each of you can be yourselves as well as be the other person in a loving and sharing relationship. Both win rather than one controlling the other which can happen when boundaries are weak.

If necessary enlist the help of a therapist that specializes in Couples.

[NancySue]

Your wife has control of the strings of your life. I don?t see any solution other than a compromise of some sort with her, but from what you?ve indicated, she?s in the drivers seat. I wish you well.

[Vickie_CDTV]

Your wife clearly hates it. Maybe you can negotiate something where you can dress in private in exchange for something she wants. At worst you may have to give up dressing to save your marriage.

[Jodie_Lynn]

Jodie,
I don't get that comment , MichaelM asked the question to try and find a different point of view , she may read a comment that really does help .

Personally I'm in a far better place now because I asked questions on the forum and decided what might work for me , surely that is what CDers. com is all about .

Teresa, I am glad that you found the right answers to your questions.

However, you and I don't know MichaelM or his wife. All we know is what he told us: she isn't thrilled.

The question was "how often is too often?" Can YOU answer that for him, because I sure as hell can't. The ONLY person who can, is the wife. Not you, me or the entire council of CD/Trangendered Wizards.

The OP stated that he underdressed for 3 days and the wife lost it. Well, from that data, 3 days is too often. And now, she has rescinded her offer because the OP "went too far"

We can speculate until the cows come home, but that WILL NOT provide the OP with an answer. Only the wife can provide the proper answer, and at this point, 'once' is probably too much.

[Star01]

It can be frustrating for us when the person we love and consider our life partner places themselves in the position of gatekeeper to our happiness. My approach is that underdressing is my secret, as far as I know she doesn't have x-ray vision. Or to put it another way, what she doesn't know isn't likely to hurt me. Mine would likely roll her eyes and change the subject if she caught me and I appreciate that about her. She says she doesn't want to know and realizes that snooping around looking for things would make her a hypocrite if she went digging for something she says she doesn't want to see. I do understand, however, that every situation is different but I think I can come closer to relating to something that limiting than those who have never lived it. I hope things improve for you and that your relationship remains on good terms. How you resolve the situation and make it happen is up to you but just wanted to speak up for those of us in the most restrictive circumstances.

[Dutchess]

As usual we only have one side of the story and even you are admitting you probably went too far .. so ...

You are going to have to talk to her , period . You all can work it out , there is just going to have to be communication and boundaries. Marriage isn't all one or the other as you know.

Please try not to take the advice of some who cannot wait for you to ditch your wife , they just hope you will be as miserable as they are .

[kimdl93]

There is only one answer to that: Ask your wife how she feels about it? Every spouse will be different in their reaction and of course, there are dynamics of your marriage and every relationship that none of us can know or consider.

My personal experiences are irrelevant to your circumstances, and the insights I have gained from those experiences will be of little value.

[Bea_]

Am I being unreasonable by trying to do so on my terms?
- Reasonability is totally subjective. You're on a forum with those who consider the idea of crossdressing to be reasonable and, at least on the fringes of 'normal'




Should I ask my wife for permission every time I want to undress?
- Your choice. For me, I asked my mother for 'permission' as a child. I don't ask my wife for permission. I try to be respectful of her opinions and her sensitivities. I could see a move towards asking permission to be a source of less respect for you instead of more. You can give her a sense of having some control over the situation without getting permission.




Should I just go ahead and do it and deal with the fall out?
-Given the starting point, whatever you do will have fallout.


I wish you the best.

[DianeT]

That's the problem with fuzzy instructions. The next time you discuss boundaries with your wife, try and be more specific about what each of you means exactly. If she says you can underdress, then discuss what kind of underdressing exactly and how frequent. She probably doesn't want you to ask permission each time, but maybe she would like to be told when you plan to do it. Discuss this too.
Also, once you have agreed on boundaries, stick to them hard. If your wife suggests once a week and you don't think you can hold it under three, tell her upfront rather than doing it in her back later, and negotiate. Being the one trapped in a situation she is not responsible for (she was not told upfront), it is only fair that she has a say in the limits more than you do. She is uneasy about dressing so every agreement you reach is golden. She needs to trust you for respecting it, because on her end, and although you may not notice, she is going to do a very challenging work on herself to adjust to it. If you move the goal posts while she is aiming at them, it just won't work. It will ruin her efforts and stress her, possibly raise some fears about the next level of dressing, etc. Put yourself in her shoes: if you told someone that you were okay for him to do something once in a while and what you get is three consecutive days of it, the first question you are going to ask yourself is "where does it end?". Your wife needs to know what she is signing for when she gives you some latitude to dress.
I would say that these basic rules can help:

If you think one of the instructions was fuzzy, it is your responsibility as the CD husband, not hers, to discuss it together and sort it out.
Anything that wasn't discussed and voiced is off the table.

If you want to move the boundaries, you need to rediscuss. As your wife isn't comfortable with crossdressing, obviously you should give her some stability time (a few months? A year?) between two boundary discussions, so she has time to adjust to the rules previously discussed. And if you know in advance that you may have to rediscuss boundaries later, then you must tell her that too. Nothing should be kept from her. She is an adult who needs to be in control of her life, and for that she needs to know what a future with you has in store for her.
Finally, keep in mind that she is recovering from a trauma (the revelation). She is hurt and confused and needs you to care about her more than ever. Don't spare your efforts and love, so your marriage gets the best chances to get through this. The fact alone that she changed her mind and allowed you to underdress is a huge gift and a glaring demonstration that she very deeply loves you.

[Liz Jones]

Been following this for some time, Do wonder instead of ringing a discreet bell you rang one the size of the Liberty bell ! I came out to my wife a while back --like you i dont like telling lies.....
Thing is i gave it a lot of though before hand--decided the gentle aproach was best. So if somthing came up on the T.V. /newspapers we talked about it (but at this time i didnt mention my "interest") this went on for some time-- as the Chinese say "slowly slowly catchee monkey" or as said on here --baby steps. I judged the time right &"came out" we had a VERY long talk -- i was only too aware of the possability of devorce lawyers......
Glad to say having answered all her questions (as honestly as possable) the end result was --well its you being you.....
To your problem, you rang the (big! ) bell -so for my 10pence worth --how about boxes of chocolates, flowers &doing a "man"project&perhaps taking her out, weekend away in other words --spoil her ! keep c/d on a very low key--
I have been married for 40years but still get a suprise from the wife now &then. if i can finnish on a glimmer of hope --G/G are well known for changing their minds...
Liz

[Cheryl T]

The frequency is something you need to establish with your spouse.
At first I would always tell my wife I would be dressed when she arrived home if she was out, just out of courtesy.
She kept telling me I didn't need to do that and eventually told me I could whenever I desired. Well, that's become almost full time with this confinement and it's up to me. There are times when I'll be dressed and she mentions something she wants to do and currently it's someplace that I would not go dressed. She will say we can do it some other time, but I just say I'll just change as I can always dress again when we return home. I do not allow it to interfere with our life and those choices are mine.

[MichaelM]

You might get consensus, more or less, by asking here, but that will likely be meaningless to your wife, Michael. An "acceptable" frequency is something that you will have to work out between the two of you.

Thanks Aunt Kelly. That's what I thought.

Whilst I could try and argue what other people do, my wife won't be interested.

Baby steps I think.

[Sometimes Steffi]

Go to the thread "The Talk, Chapter 2" by SometimesSteffi. Steffi has a similar problem. For my opinion, read my post there. It applies just as well to you MichaelM as it does to her. I involves establishing boundaries to provide room in the relationship for each of you to be yourselves while considering the needs of the other. It needs to remain flexible so each of you can be yourselves as well as be the other person in a loving and sharing relationship. Both win rather than one controlling the other which can happen when boundaries are weak.

If necessary enlist the help of a therapist that specializes in Couples.


Since I got called out on this by Gretchen, I have to respond because I know the answer.

The answer is somewhere between "one and done" and "as much as you want, whenever you want, wherever you want." LOL

So the real answer is a negotiated settlement between you and your wife.

My answer, not in the house, not in the neighborhood, but you can go out dressed twice a month, provided I don't see you dressed going out, dressed coming in and the neighbors don't see you dressed. I found a way to go out and about with friends and satisfy the boundary constraints.

[tooshytogoout]

I think you should be talking to your wife about that. Marriage is a compromise...

[kelliboots]

Jodie is on point here! only your wife's voice and opinion count!

[Shelly Preston]

As most have said you need to discuss with your wife

Please remember your wife has only had a few months to get used to the idea you want to underdress.

I would assume you have had this need for a lot longer.

If you try to push too quickly you could lose everything in terms of progress.