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Sometimes Steffi
08-29-2020, 09:49 PM
My wife knows I crossdress, and that was after The Talk, Chapter 1.

Chapter 2 was a lot worse. My wife started talking about my evening use of the computer, and how I should stop it. She said it was bad for me, and bad for our relationship, She knows that I shop on the computer and she doesn't like it. It's not money, because I'm spending my money, not out money. She just doesn't like it.

Then she started pushing all my buttons, although, I think I remained pretty calm about it.

We sleep in different bedrooms. She moved out about 9 years ago. At that time, it was because my CPAP was too loud for her to fall asleep. But she keeps changing her story. Sometimes she says it's about when I stay up to late on the computer. She's also implied that sleeping with a crossdresser, albeit one who doesn't crossdress around her, creeps her out.

She went upstairs to bed while I contemplated the tongue lashing I received. I was a little p'd off about it. I got up stairs and went into her room just to say goodnight. And she starts all over again with me. That was more than I could handle tonight.

So I told her, very calmly, that maybe we should consider a trial separation. And, remember, I said it first.

The first thing she asked was what good would a trial separation do? I said it would be a way to find out if we are better living apart, or living together with a change in the ground rules.

The very next thing she said was, "How can we afford it?" She already knows the answer, we can't, without a drastic change in lifestyle. So, as Seinfeld would say, It's out there now.

After I left her room, my wife came into mine and said this is good, We're finally talking honestly.

Teresa, if not for the grace of God, I will be following you.

AlyssaS
08-29-2020, 11:05 PM
That is kind of rough. I hope it works out for the best, what ever that ends up being.

docrobbysherry
08-29-2020, 11:13 PM
Sreffi, I'm so sorry! That u both feel torturing each other is cost efficient while your lives r passing u by!:sad:

U shop with "your own money". Maybe she's rite? Stop shopping and spend it on hiring an attorney. Then maybe next year u can be going out shopping with Teresa!

And, your ex can be ragging on her roommate. She sounds like a VERY unhappy person!:Angry3:

Marianne S
08-29-2020, 11:25 PM
I'm sorry you're having so much trouble with your wife. Are there any other issues in the marriage besides your crossdressing?

Take her complaint about your evening computer use, for instance. Is she saying you should be spending the time with her instead? Does she feel neglected, in want of attention? Does she have any other longstanding complaints? Or does it seem more like complaining for the sake of complaining?

Do the two of you ever actually have any fun together, do anything enjoyable together? Or does it seem as if you're no more than glorified roommates? As tragic as it sounds, is there anything in this marriage worth saving?

And what does she mean by "talking honestly"? "We" are talking honestly? Or are you the only one "talking honestly"? Would I be right in guessing that she's the one who wants a separation, but won't take the responsibility of being honest and asking for it, so she keeps pushing your buttons to manipulate and goad you into asking for it instead, then she can blame you for the whole thing? Or is that an unfair assessment? Anyway it's a very unhealthy dynamic.

Have the two of you tried counseling together? Or is that a lost cause?

Di
08-30-2020, 05:12 AM
First off I do not know your wife or relationship you are a better judge of how to go forward.

But I think since the DADT door is open a bit can you explain to her with the pandemic, your outings and other outlets are closed to you. Your shopping and being on the computer are your only outlet right now . Maybe suggest counseling, time you can dress and give her the attention she seems to be asking for.
This might be a way you can compromise to something that will work for you both.


I hope you can come to an understanding

Crissy 107
08-30-2020, 05:50 AM
Steffi, I think Di makes some good points, maybe it could be time to talk about your CDing and also about you with less time on the computer in the evening. Hopefully a compromise can be worked out.

Sandi Beech
08-30-2020, 06:07 AM
Gee Steffi, that sounds like some painful conversations. I understand how it feels as my wife has given me similar tongue lashings in the past which is the reason I went into hiding with it. Out of sight out of mind I guess.

One thing I do so as not to get in trouble for being on the computer too long is to do all my shopping etc in the early hours before she gets up. I was worried I might get the same complaint.

Good luck. Sorry things are going badly.

Sandi

Teresa
08-30-2020, 07:07 AM
S Steffi,
It was funny feeling once the subject had been brought up we appeared to be happier , maybe we did see it as the logical conclusion . We even started discussing where we would live and choosing possible houses for each other . Possibly it was naive to think we could be separated and yet still share some aspects of our lives , I'm afraid it wasn't to be , she continued to try and control me , dictating almost when it was suitable to dress or not . The veil was drawn back and I began to see her in a different light and also myself . I do consider myself lucky that it was basically amicable , we agreed to split 50-50 giving us both the opportuntiy to buy a nice home , from the outset I didn't know how much the rest of my family would still visit but I bought on the basis of still being a home to them if needs be .

I know now we are both happier , we can live the lives we choose to live without the issues hanging over us , the bottom line was it couldn't continue as it was ,there really was no future in it . Try and keep the good memories intact while you still can .

Consider carefully the change of lifestyle , is it such a bad thing , happiness is important and worth the sacrifices .

To pick up on Marianne's point , the honest talking did start when these cards were laid on the table .

Rogina B
08-30-2020, 07:24 AM
Whatever the reason for a couple to split up when they are "older",I don't see it as "all good". Health issues come around and they now have to be handled alone.Not so easy possibly. Love is a strong glue that can be be tenacious. Some couples don't talk until there is a crisis and an ultimatum gets thrown. Not sure every long married couple needs to throw a marriage away.

GretchenM
08-30-2020, 08:04 AM
In my opinion, the conflict is perhaps due to a couple of things. First is that your wife seems to have reached her limit about the crossdressing and the related aspects and is striking back. It is her right. She may be thinking, "I have tried to tolerate this and been understanding for a while and now I have decided it 'creeps me out.' " She may feel like she needs to be accepting of another "woman" sleeping with her. There was an online book written by a transgender person who transitioned. I think it was called "Understanding Transgender" or something like that. During the process she was going to a therapist and a group as well. One day she came home to her wife and proudly announced, "Guess what? I am a lesbian." Her wife said, "That's great, but I am not." Headed for an end in that marriage.

So how do you fix this? One way is to set clearly defined boundaries that are mutually agreeable. Write them down and stick to them to the best of your ability. Have a signal so when one feels a boundary has been crossed the other is alerted to what is PERCEIVED as a boundary crossing. Talk about it. That divides personal space from mutual space. Don't think it is cast in bronze but recognize the agreement is flexible in recognition of the fact that behavior is not a thing but a process that behaves a bit like a shape shifter. Things do change. It is all about adaptation and respecting the fact that you may be married but you are also individuals with your own values and standards that are important to you. It is a bit of the concept that one of Robert Frost's poems made - "Good fences make good neighbors."

In marriages, boundaries can be very important, depending upon the nature and the details of the relationship and how the two people interact. And it is fair and equitable because nobody gets everything that they want but everybody is provided space to be themselves without stepping on the toes of the other which happens when boundaries are crossed or don't exist. It doesn't have to be DADT but it does have to respect the individual's space to produce an equal sharing environment for the couple to live in.

Leasa Wells
08-30-2020, 08:13 AM
I was in your shoes a year ago, although we were not married but together for 6 1/2 years. My situation we were living more like roommates then a couple. What really turn the events was I found out she was out dating, thus a moral code broken. We split and I couldn't be happier you have a right to a good life and so does she. If that means going your separate ways then ok. I offered to go to counseling and she wasn't interested till it really was the end. Get help for yourself, and she can do the same for her separately it might let both of you see where things are.

Crissy 107
08-30-2020, 09:50 AM
Steffi, Pay attention to GretchenM and Rogina B, both make some very good points.

Dutchess
08-30-2020, 10:04 AM
This lady is missing your attn .
But yes you do need to reread what Ro and Gretchen said . This being the United States, alot of us can and will end up like Star said on another thread - in a 1 room efficiency in a bad part of town, alone, if we throw everything away .

I hope you two can come to a workable compromise

AngelaYVR
08-30-2020, 10:08 AM
If you are spending every evening browsing on the Internet she is justified in being angry with you. Couples sometimes treat reconciling as a game of chicken, waiting for the other to make the first move. Want to save the marriage? Make the first move.

Stephanie47
08-30-2020, 10:52 AM
Looking at your bio it appears you're 67. I've read your postings and it appears you're still working but from home. I know several people, including family members who are working from home. What happens in part is the visual of a spouse being there, but not really being there. Then along comes personal time and the spouse is still banging away on a computer. I looked at your bio page and noticed you have sixteen pages of threads you initiated. Obviously that does not include responding to other threads.

If you reread many of your postings you'll see you and your wife are not really in a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" marriage. Wives are not stupid. They can easily figure out what you're doing. I think she has made the observation you're on this forum and you're buying women's clothing, whether with "your" money or not. I find that to be an interesting comment in a marriage; his and her money. It's still activity which is excluding her. I think a marriage is not DADT if the husband's cross dressing is out there for the wife to see. The reminders are there. The guy does not have to be sitting in the living room all dolled up. You're communicating your cross dressing in another forum which perhaps you're thinking is going unnoticed.

I don't know whether sleeping apart is due to your noisy CPAC machine. It may be an excuse for her to vacate the marital bed. That may compound what appears to be an absence of together time. Sleep apart. Bang away on the computer all the time. Where's the together time? When I read these accounts of marital woe I do realize we are getting only one side of the story.

The fall back position is always to seek marital counseling. Get it out in the open. Find out what the end game is for both husband and wife.

Teresa
08-30-2020, 02:46 PM
To pick up on comments about separating or not .

The bottom line for me was once I had come out to my wife in my forties the damage was done , that is when you discover how strong the bond of love actually was , once that bond is broken the outcome is inevitable otherwise the marriage becomes an empty shell . Counselling may have helped if we were both prepared to participate but it can't work if it's one sided .
Health is important but many people have to deal with that alone , you can't retain a marriage simply to retain a nursemaid or carer .

All the points Steffi mentions , spending too much time on computers etc. could be irrelevant , CDing might be the excuse your partner has been looking for to end the marriage anyway . My wife sat night after night with her head in the computer screen and yet complained if I swapped TV channels or left her sitting by herself for too long in the evenings . If a marriage has expired for whatever reason , you really have to be honest and accept the inevitable .

Micki_Finn
08-30-2020, 02:51 PM
Sorry to hear about your situation, but unlike the movies always tell us, sometimes it takes more than love to make a relationship work. Sometimes now matter how much you care about each other, the relationship was just not meant to be. Best of luck to you.

Sometimes Steffi
08-30-2020, 09:20 PM
Just want to say that I've read all the post, and I appreciate all the advice and different views. However, I haven't had the time I need to digest all the comments.

There were a couple of things that rang true. TBH, I have to admit that I haven't been spending as much time with her as she want's me to.

There's been almost a complete lack of intimacy for probably close to 10 years now. I'm going to lay most of the blame for that on her. Not getting any intimacy with my wife has been replaced with girl time, whether shopping online or in physical stores and the opportunity to hang out with CD/TG friends, although not intimately. I guess one of the key components of that was havid the Keystone Conference cancelled because of COVID-19, plus all our monthly CD time as a group of girls plus the times I used to go to a clothing swap with all GGs.

There wasn't much said today, but there was one significant exchange.

Wife: Thank you for bringing out [relationship issues] up to a boil.
Me: It's easy to get scalded by boiling water.
Wife: Maybe we should keep the water temperature at a warm sizzle.

Maybe there is still hope.

DianeT
08-31-2020, 02:03 AM
Wife's diary (assuming she isn't a tortuous mind but simply loves her husband):
- My spouse isn't spending time with me anymore. Something is on. Maybe he doesn't love me anymore. Is he thinking about breaking up?
- This evening I complained about this computer time once more. He spends so much time on this computer, we don't have any left for us. He remained very calm and didn't engage the conversation. He doesn't seem to care. I insisted and tried to get a reaction, but to no avail.
- Next thing I hear from him: "We should test a separation". I knew something was on. Now he's laying his cards on the table. In a sense this is good. Now we're talking honestly.

Sometimes all it takes is for one of the spouses to make the first move. Good luck.

Teresa
08-31-2020, 04:23 AM
Steffi,
Without going into too much detail I also had the loss of intimacy well over ten years ago . I respected my wife's wishes but it began to feel a little one sided , she didn't appear to respect my needs . I found it increasingly difficult to lay next to someone I wouldn't touch in an intimate way again , I did feel hurt as it didn't appear to bother her .

Crissy 107
08-31-2020, 05:29 AM
Steffi, I just read your latest post on this thread and I hope that you can work things out and stay together. The Covid mess will eventually pass and you will be back to monthly meetings again with your group.

char GG
08-31-2020, 05:46 AM
I'm sure many of you realize that intimacy for women usually begins in the head. If women are unhappy, lack attention and/or conversation, or there are unresolved issues, it's hard for the head to switch gears. Long term unhappiness just makes things worse and becomes the "new normal".

I don't know anyone's individual situations other than what they write here so there is no blame. I'm sure the same issues that plague women also apply to men.

GretchenM
08-31-2020, 06:30 AM
You are quite right Char. The motivator for both men and women are in the head, but its expression is different because of the different roles. Unhappiness affects both in a negative way. Intimacy is a way of expressing love and if the love is in pain there is not much desire to express your feelings in that way. Of course women's interest in sex can sometimes decline with age but there is still a desire to be close to her mate with cuddling and other things. If that is gone there is a big problem somewhere.

In conflicts in marriage there is a tendency to blame the other person in a defensive move. And sometimes that is where the fault is. But it is also important to remember that a relationship involves a positive give and take between two people that respect and appreciate each other, while trying to avoid pointing fingers and placing blame which sometimes is actually misplaced. That leads to one-upmanship as each tries to defend themselves. Not useful. The best way is to remember that it is a relationship, a very close relationship and pointing fingers like negotiating a treaty is not useful. In fact it often makes things worse. So, Steffi, as I see a bit of that I think you two may need to see a therapist because I detect a bit of a cold war going on here. Those are not fun and they rarely end well. If you both still see value in your marriage then, for goodness sake, set aside the pride and seek some professional help.

kimdl93
08-31-2020, 08:48 AM
I am very sorry to read how your relationship has deteriorated. My tendency is to view this through the lens of my own experience and mistakes, and as such my advice is likely of little application to the problems in your marriage. That being said, i would suggest that if preserving the marriage is something of value to both of you, either due to bonds of affection or economic necessity, then seek counseling.

Bobbi46
08-31-2020, 09:20 AM
Steffi I had a lot in parralel in with you so know what you are going through

alwayshave
09-01-2020, 05:27 AM
Steffi, I'm sorry that your having so much trouble in your marriage. I hope that all works out well for you.

Bea_
09-01-2020, 12:54 PM
So I told her, very calmly, that maybe we should consider a trial separation. And, remember, I said it first.

The first thing she asked was what good would a trial separation do? I said it would be a way to find out if we are better living apart, or living together with a change in the ground rules.

The very next thing she said was, "How can we afford it?" She already knows the answer, we can't, without a drastic change in lifestyle. So, as Seinfeld would say, It's out there now.

After I left her room, my wife came into mine and said this is good, We're finally talking honestly.

Teresa, if not for the grace of God, I will be following you.

As hard as a conversation like this is, my thought is that it's a good thing. Hopefully, you'll never see the separation or worse, but it good to set a hard boundary when one is needed. Now maybe the less dramatic boundaries can be negotiated in good faith.

DianeT
09-01-2020, 01:50 PM
I'm sure many of you realize that intimacy for women usually begins in the head.
Oooooh yes.

Jenny22
09-01-2020, 06:06 PM
Steffi said, "After I left her room, my wife came into mine and said this is good, We're finally talking honestly". That's the KEY factor needed! Good luck!

Sometimes Steffi
09-11-2020, 09:56 PM
I talked to my wife about a trial separation about a week ago.



Since then things have only gotten worse, hence my decision to move to Phase 2.

Phase 2 is to work on the financial aspect of separation. [My definition]

My wife is complaining about everything I do and everything I don't do. Not crossdressing, but just everyday things like when I wake up, when I go to sleep how much time I spend on the computer, what I eat and how well I take care of my health. Like my mother, and I don't think I've been "mothered" this month since I became a teenager. I've talked to her about this, but my words aren't getting through to her.

The other morning I asked her what I just did that got her so angry at me. Her response was that 30 years ago when she was working some evenings, I would "always" get home just in time or her to leave for work. I can't deny that; it's probably true. I told her if she's still holding a grudge from 30 years ago, we can't fix that problem. What I was thinking is that my "Way-back machine" is broken and I can't go back 30 years and correct my behavior.

But, I also had an epiphany. I know what her problems are:

(1) She's starting to experience what I perceive are cognitive deficits.
(2) She had a total knee replacement 15 months ago and hasn't yet recovered. She still has some pain quite often.
(3) She's not getting good sleep
(4) Her "mood medicine" is no longer working.

Given these problems, I can see why she's lashing out at me; she almost can't help it.

Well, I almost can't help reacted badly to her toxic attitude towards me. But. now that I understand her problems, I will try to be more tolerant.

Nonetheless, I'm going to move us to Trial Separation, Phase 2.

What that means to me is we see if we can both function financially separately. My plan is to take $2000 a month out of our monthly budget and separating out finances. We pay for the current house expenses including mortgage and utilities. The $2000 is an estimate for the cost of an apartment for me, including rent and utilities. The rest of the expenses are split 50/50. I pay for my food, car and medical expenses and she pays for hers.

We try this out for 3 months before moving to Phase 3.

Aka_Donna
09-11-2020, 10:25 PM
I don't think this is about CD, but more relationship. What is her buzz? You WFH and spend lots of time on computer. What do you do together? It's difficult with covid restrictions, but have you considered counseling. It may be just frustration, but you are sounding too black/white hardline, almost ah.

Natalie5004
09-11-2020, 10:27 PM
Sorry man. I know that is super lousy. Do what you have to do.
I got divorced after a 13 year marriage. It was painful. In the long run I asked why I waited so long.

It took me 5 years to get my head back on correctly. I am much better now. I am married again. Next June 20 years. You will be happier after some tough years. Good luck.

maya1
09-12-2020, 12:29 AM
Good luck with this. I finally decided to move out and start legal separation process. It is hard but I think the hardest part was taking that first step to go on your own. We were also concerned about the financial impact but we're splitting existing assets 50/50 and we are working with mediator to do a non-lawyer divorce to save money. I could not be happier and cannot imagine going back to old life.

GaleWarning
09-12-2020, 01:27 AM
I Me Mine is what I am reading.

Wen4cd
09-12-2020, 01:50 AM
Gosh I'm sorry Steffi.

It's heartbreaking to hear. I hope the separation either makes you both happy or at least gives you both a moment to breathe before facing the next phase of life.

Bobbi46
09-12-2020, 02:15 AM
Steffi, I have been down the same road as you, getting nagged everyday for anything and everything, this went on for about 5 years before we seperated and divorced. There was no getting through to her, and nothing I did could please her, so we ended everything.
I am sorry this is happening to you but it seems like you have no options left.

DianeT
09-12-2020, 01:06 PM
I told her if she's still holding a grudge from 30 years ago, we can't fix that problem. What I was thinking is that my "Way-back machine" is broken and I can't go back 30 years and correct my behavior.

No you can't. But you could acknowledge that she was hurt and tell her that you are sorry. From there a discussion could start, since she cared enough to share this piece of information with you. But since you seem to have figured it all out already and made up your mind (comforted by some posters here which seem in a hurry to see you end your marriage like they did instead of trying and fixing things), maybe I am not making the best use of my (and your) time writing this...

Sometimes Steffi
09-12-2020, 01:10 PM
I'm listening yo all your advice, including this on from galewarning



I Me Mine is what I am reading.


At first I got defensive. That's so not me, so I initially thought.

But there's a lot of truth that I need to consider in Gale's 8 short words.

Maybe it is all me?

BTW, my newer post "Separation, Stage 2" was merged into this post by the mods.

alwayshave
09-13-2020, 08:14 AM
Steffi, your wife sounds like my ex-wife. What ever happens, I hope that t turns out well for you.