Attraction and Envy

[Mia_799]

Deleted original post.

[Jeri Ann]

Envy, attraction and dressing up to feel sexy are poor motivations for transitioning.

[Mia_799]

Removed this post.

[Aunt Kelly]

I agree that those things alone don't add up to a definitive diagnosis, but Mia is also relating some signs of gender dysphoria.

Mia, you say you've been to a "gender therapist". What were his/her thoughts on your condition (if you don't mind my asking)?

You are unlikely to find validation here. For every "I have that too!" response, there will be a half dozen "Nope, never had that" responses. This is hardly surprising. We're all different individuals after all. I came to grips with my identity only after therapy. Jeri Ann blew good money having a noted gender therapist tell her what she has known almost all her life. LOL. If you're still wondering, there's probably still some work to do.

[Mia_799]

Deleted this post.

[Dorit]

Mia, I do not know how old you are but I have said this before that many transsexuals seem to sexualize their "cross-dressing" at a young age. That in and of itself does not mean you are or or not a transsexual. You will have to find this out for yourself through living. I do see that you have a lot of fear about what you are doing being exposed to other people and it seems to control your decisions about who you are and what you want to express. I believe you need to work on this with a therapist, fear should not be the basis for a happy life and decisions. I do hope you will find the right answer.

[GaleWarning]

A lot of people on the forum seem to go out 'as they are' with their broad shoulders, and sometimes beard and all.
I think not a few people will say that it is all about self-acceptance and self-confidence.
Good luck in your search for understanding.

[MarieTS]

Mia, first off, it just seems out of character for a therapist to goad you towards transition. That is the sort of thing an effective therapist would not do. Instead, a good therapist provides a setting in which you self-advocate for transition. In turn, they help you sort out your feelings and assist you in dealing with the myriad of internal and external complexities that are involved in transition.

Secondly -- and sadly -- during the process of transition be prepared to lose all your friends. If you are not willing to do that then you will always be held hostage by your untransitioned life. As such, you may likely be a better candidate for CD'ing as opposed to a life altering transition.

I hope this helps align your perspective.

[Teresa]

Mia,
I agree with Marie your gender counsellor was incorrect in her advice , they can only help you come to terms with it after you've made the decison . You have so many loose ends I feel you need to see another counsellor to give you some clear thinking on what road you should be travelling down . You say you live alone and what you wear isn't problem but I don't think you've mentioned if you are totally out in the RW . I found I couldn't achieve a balance until I made that decision now my life is more in balance .

How you look and what clothes you wear are only part of the equation , I'm sure most of us have envied others but we are what we are so we just take what we have and make the best of it .

Attraction to a specific gender isn't a problem , I'm still attracted to women , I'm not looking for a new relationship but if it happens then so be it . Being one of the girls is something I've always felt , I just live with it , why make it a problem ?

The bottom line is find yourself and be honest with it , you can't live your life in someone elses shoes .

I agreed with Marie on her first part but I don't agree with on the second part , I've found I haven't lost any friends or old acquaintances in fact I've made far more new ones , being TG hasn't formed a social barrier .

[Katya@]

Hi Mia,

My 2 cents - I am non-binary, and have been on cross-sex hormones for almost 3 years, and didn't have a therapist, but did the digging into my identity myself using a guide written by a gender therapist Dara Hoffman-Fox "You and your gender identity" .

I think it is normal to feel both sexual about other women and want to have bodies like theirs whether you like to cross dress or transition. The thing about transition - is different. It's more have to do with actual dysphoria living as your present self. If you can meet your urge to cross dress with spending some time in the real world dressed and then you are OK to return back and live and present as a male for a while, then it is probably the easiest and safest thing to do. For me personally, there was no way I could live any longer presenting male. I had to leave this part of me behind once and for all because it was mentally killing me.

Good luck,
Katya

[Sometimes Steffi]

Therapy is supposed to be a judgement-free zone. That includes "judging" you to be trans. Your therapist should be there to help you figure it out, but not tell you what to do.

No amount of medical treatment will shrink the size of your shoulders or hands. The best way to determine if a woman has had youth affirming plastic surgery is to look at he hands. Old hands can't really can't be fixed.

Do you go out as you are, big shoulders and all, in correctly sized clothes. Maybe that's all you need. There's no going back on surgery or hormones.

I have a friend who got the whole package, including FFS. She said the FFS was more feminizing than anything else she did.

YMMV. I am a CD who will probably not transition, except possibly socially.

[Star01]

Mia_799, I am a CD who checks off many of the same boxes but I check this section every few days. My situation is complicated and I can't dress often and that adds to the stress.

I used to think that my CD'ing was a sex kink but I turn 69 in a few days and as the libido diminishes the urge to dress and feminize remains. Many have stated that this often starts as a CD and progresses until a person realizes they are transgender. I am in therapy and I'm trying to understand many of the same questions. I have been holding my CD'ing in check until this all becomes more clear and that gets more difficult as time goes on.

The difficult thing about all this is that there is no lab test to give a diagnosis and no treatment besides transition. I went into it thinking the therapist would give a diagnosis but all he does is gives pros and cons and leaves the answer up to me. Apparently I am not ready or the answers would come to me. I am finding that this is a slower process than I imagined but I am staying with it.

All the best to you. I hope you can sort things out because living in limbo isn't fun.

[Lana Mae]

OK! I am NOT a therapist but am just relating some experiences!
I attended a house concert and started feeling something! I thought it was sexual thoughts toward the female singer! It got so bad that I left the concert! Analysis later told me I loved her dress, her boots and really wanted to be her! Now that was early on in my journey and I was a CD!
Your therapist was totally wrong to push you toward transitioning! They are to guide you not push you! Transitioning is your decision alone! It is not something to take lightly! You need to go out dressed in the real world before you make any moves toward transition! There are many forms and styles of women out there! I myself am plus size and accept that fact! I always felt unsexy but was indirectly hit on by a guy! This helped me realize different strokes for different folks!
The experience you have will help temper your decisions! Get a real gender therapist and start over! Remember only you make the decisions!
Best wishes on your journey!
Hugs Lana Mae

[Nadine Spirit]

Hi Mia - much of what you wrote is something I could have written several years ago. I was very confused and very much in denial about who I am. Much of the information I read from these very boards scared me. I have been a member here since 2013, I think. Back then I considered myself as solely a CD and the TS boards scared me! It was a bit of a rougher group then. The prominent idea that stuck to me from viewing the TS board "from the outside" was that most people here said do not transition unless you are ready to kill yourself first. I have never been ready to kill myself, thus I clearly was not TS.

Ah, not so fast. As many have said, we are individuals and we are all different. Simply because one person, or many people, say that they chose to transition for a certain reason does mean that becomes the only and sole reason to transition. I chose to transition because I was tired of the swirled up feelings within me. I had been able to cope with my distress for much of my life, but it was undeniable that I was in a state of distress, even if that distress never led me to wanting to kill myself.

So how about you? Yeah I personally think you are in as much denial as I was. Your therapist saw it. And you yourself saw it, otherwise I don't think you would have "tried" HRT. That is a bit more than Cding. What I really feel from you is what I suffered from, fear. And it is hard to overcome and realize what is true and right. My therapist has always pointed out the obvious, even when I was not interested in seeing it. She never pushed anything on me, but rather told me she would hold my hand and help me find my way through the darkness. When I finally told her, after a year of HRT and a year of therapy that I was going to transition, she said, yeah I was waiting for it.

BTW, "Envy, attraction and dressing up to feel sexy are poor motivations for transitioning." I agree though those were all things I felt prior to transitioning. They were not the only things I felt, but they were some of them. I can make much more sense out of them now, but then, they just added to my confusion. I often think I would have realized I am TS sooner if I was attracted to men instead of women. Wanting to have sex with women as well as trying to understand that I am a woman was very challenging. Now at least I understand my obsessiveness about it all. Actually I understand pretty much everything about myself so much better now. Denial sucks!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I can echo lots of the later comments..

I spent my entire life as a "Crossdresser". I "fantasized" alot about being a woman and it became more and more distressing to me over the years.

Mia your statement here. "[I]I suppose I am confused because I tell myself one thing and am searching everything about being trans" is one that I totally relate to.

This behavior of mine was constant for decades. I never really cognitively noticed. It was a bit of a different era, so my internal phobic thoughts were about TS being about sexy models and dancers came from the info that was around in 70s and 80s.

As I started to notice this behavour it became incredibly painful. I now know this is what they call gender dysphoria. Sometimes I still have internal thoughts about not being TS but because the GD was so bad I actually have no doubts about it and I know I did the right thing. I also know because I never ever thought for one second about turning the boat around once it started to sail.


Your comment about HRT is a huge data point. You tried taking a meaningful step. It wasnt right for you. Doesnt that answer your question? Or perhaps you have to explore what you really mean by your fears compelled you to stop.

Try to think straight and try to only focus on what matters. What was the fear that stopped HRT? How bad do you really feel? Why is just crossdressing not making you feel whole? Sounds easy and simple...you know better after all that therapy but you also may consider that so far you have struggled being a reliable narrator to yourself...



I

[Devi SM]

Mia, I start reading your thread yesterday and today I wanted to comment but when done you know what happen, it kik me out because the link as yesterday was doesn't exist today. What a bummer, several times that happens yo me and I still not learning...lol

Well the same as with the website I still learning from my daily life. What am I? Transexual, transgender? Lesbian? I don't know, I just gave up with labels but I'm sure the life I'm living is the right one.

After re-reading all the comments I don't have too much to comment except that we all, here, post our own limited knowledge based in our own experience and our own research.

In my case I had experiences, may be the same as yo, but they were not the only ones that finally moved me to who I am today.

Please, don't take our words as final because we all are different.

As many here I disagree on the "pressure" of your gender therapist to transition. I'd been in therapy with three therapist, the first one was very general, the second a family therapist with some experience on crossdressers and now I see, in a monthly basis, a gender therapists that happens to be transgender as well, ftm.
I went to see the first therapist looking for answers but I didn't receive what I was looking. As you, we all look for acceptance and affirmation but therapists don't do that. They won't tell you what you are or what to do.

For me, the therapist helped me to clear my mind from what is real and what is not, they helped me with strategies for my own life development, the relationship with my wife but never push me to hormones or to quit when I panicked in the 8th month on HRT.

I agree with most of the comments here but, again, dont take our comments as definitive negative rejection or positive affirmation. We all are different and just writing our own journey, look for yours, for sure can be similar to some of us but it will be definitely different.

Keep looking, researching, trying, this life is just one and everybody deserve to live it with honesty and truth.

Mho.

Devi

[NicoleRenee]

Mia...Marie made a good point about a good therapist. A good one should not confirm that you are or not trans but to guide you thru the process. Answer what feelings you have, maybe next steps. It is your decision if you are trans or should stay a crossdresser. I am now seeing a therapist that works with many individuals going thru the process and in the community where I live. She is a clinical psychologist. She will literally just sit there until I say something. I may ask here why I feel a certain way, she will answer because the brain is telling you something. She may give me statistics. But it is all me talking to her and her explaining things. I said to here first that I was trans or feeling trans. She just confirmed it. YOU have to decide if you are.

The one thing that Marie may be wrong with is losing friends. She may have lost friends in her journey but not everyone does. I am just starting my journey and haven't lost a friend yet. Some have even surprised me by reaching out. If you do lose friends, maybe they weren't true friends. My therapist told me yesterday that I may have friends that step away but 3 out of 5 friends will come back after the shock wears off or they realize that shouldn't break the friendship. Plus if you lose some, you will gain many more along the way.

If you are alone dressing in your house, if you have those feelings of being trans, step out. It doesn't matter if you have broad shoulders or a masculine face or even walk like one. You will be surprised what you will find while you are out. You will always get looks, most of them from men trying to figure you out. Women generally don't care. You might even get a few compliments along the way.

[AmandaM]

Sometimes when I see a female with small soft shoulders, amazing curves with soft facial features and small cute hands, I am obviously attracted and find it sexy but then I also get jealous and wish I could be her.

when I dress up I dislike my masculine features and envy every aspect of the female body. I want smaller shoulders and curves and just imagine what I would?ve looked like born a female.


You are almost exactly like me. What both my therapists said was wise. Go down the path of femininity and see where you end up. You don't need to go all the way down the road, just get to the place that is best for you. The first thing I must do, is make myself more feminine physically. Then I will feel better looking in the mirror. Baby steps. HRT may be in my future, but that's a question for tomorrow. For now, it's diet, exercise, shave, etc.

[Mia_799]

Deleted this post.

[Devi SM]

Mia, I wouldn't use the world normal because normality is a rule established for the majority or the more common, we're neither one yet. I used to say that may be in another 20 or 30 years to talk about transexualism or transgenderism will be so weird as today to talk about slavery but who knows.

I would say that your feelings are very common on trans people before transition or bet out of the closet.

As you mention, fear of the people around us is so strong that works in two ways, one way doesn't let us move forward but at the same time torment us for not doing it. Weird? Yes it's weird.

I think many of us experience the same as you for a while up to when decide overcome those fears and doubts and bite the bullet getting out of the cloeet and do more definitive moves to be ourselves.
Today I was thinking in all the same fears you have now I had years ago and had a lunch/dinner with my sons, their wives, one of their mother in law, my grandsone and wife, everybody is more than ok. We celebrate my, my son's and one of my daughter in law birthday. I received just femenine gits as a watch, a make up traveler case, a bracelet, chocolates, etc.
The previous scene torture me for years but there was no reason.

Today I just live "normal" life, can we call it normal?
I just got home from a tire shop where I go for tire rotation, alignment etc, this was the first time I did it as I am , there was no weird faces or acts just normal, nice treatment as any other woman, we were two in that moment.
Om just now writing this, my wife is at my side watching the kids. A couple years ago I wouldn't do it in front of her.....
Mho

Devi

[Mia_799]

Deleted this post.

[Teresa]

Mia,
Maybe turn this around , how do you feel when you look in the mirror and see the man looking back at you , it happens every morning and I admit I hate it , I tend to look beyond that and do what needs to be done with shaving .

Sorry Mia , have I missed your age but I do agree it's not easy when that man has lived a full male life before embarking on this journey , I don't think any of us lose some of those traits , I accept at times they come as a useful bonus , I live alone so I need to get my head round all my jobs having that man has his uses at times .

I accept I may never go any further social transition is working out fine for me , my anatomy doesn't give me major concerns , it's all tucked out the way and there when I need to go to the bathroom . It would lovely to have larger boobs but I'm happy with my figure as are the people Icome into contact with .

I wonder if dysphoria is mostly a problem if you have to live with restrictions of others , if you can find a happy , contented balance and live a " Normal " life the problem just simmers on the back burner .

Maybe you need to ask yourself , to live comfortably full time as a woman how much difference would full transition make to your everyday life ? I've thought very hard about this and discussed it with my gender counsellor , at the moment I feel I've made the right decision . It's very easy to see other members here living a lifestyle which you envy or think you need the same thing but each of our lives are different so you have to be honest with what suits you and not others .

[Katya@]

Hi Mia,

There are gender fluid people out there, whose sense of own gender change from day to day or throug the day. They are under the transgender umbrella as well.

[Mia_799]

Deleted this post.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

The rabbit hole sucks.

used to refer to a bizarre, confusing, or nonsensical situation or environment, typically one from which it is difficult to extricate oneself.

I feel for you. You have to figure out as soon as possible at least one thing you can do to answer a question for yourself ... i can't tell you what that is...

i do know that the only thing that mitigates gender dysphoria is expressing the right gender... and i also know the fastest way to kill pink fog is commit to go to the Supermarket and shop for pickles on a hot summer day as a woman, smiling and talking to anyone you meet.

[Mia_799]

Deleted this post.

[Dorit]

The rabbit hole indeed sucks and therapy can be expensive but the thought of dressing up and going out in public scares the heck out of me at the same time sounds exhilarating. Not sure I have the courage to do that at this point.

One thing I?ve realized for sure is that I?m more than a crossdresser so that helps at least.

You sound like a pretty normal transgender women! We all seem to have to pass through the stage of fear. I know I did. What changed it for me was the experience of being full time female for two months on holiday in another country. When I came home I knew I had to live the rest of my life outwardly as the woman I always was. Was the fear gone? Not the least, but I had this determination that I has to transition. Now three years later the fear is gone and the exhilaration is left!

[Nadine Spirit]

Now if I transition and become the woman I always wanted to be, will it be the opposite and sometimes I won?t want my boobs and curves and just to be a man without makeup or all the things that come with making myself feminine?



Hello again - I used to think this exact same thing. It was actually something that I held up as evidence that I should not transition. However, I did transition anyway, and now I know the answer to that question, nope I'm not ever interested in presenting as male. Are there times that I am not interested in wearing makeup, my wig, my nice dresses, and heels? Sure, however I never want to be rid of the body I now have. So I go out, without all of the "stuff" I use to "make myself feminine," and thrillingly, I am still gendered properly as a woman. Once one transitions, it is not the "stuff" that makes one female, it is who we are. And while boobs are not the thrill a minute affair I dreamed that they would be (growing them can be quite painful at times) there is never a time that I wish they were not there.

[Teresa]

Mia,
If we can truly be what we feel or need inside dysphoria usually subsides , it is the fears of judgement from others that often creates that barrier . The problem is many of those fears reside in our heads and not in others , out of all the people I know , family ,friends , the only person that now passes judgement is my wife ( soon to be ex ) . In the end you have to make the decision to exlude some people from your life not unless they need you and are prepared to change but I don't force that issue the choice is their's not mine .

I also don't feel I'm too bad looking as a man but seeing him in the mirror just doesn't feel good anymore , I now tend to shy away from people when I have to do the few hours in male mode . It doesn't really matter how much cosmetic attention I pay to myself the bottom line is looking basically female is just right in everyway .

Kaitlyn,
I hate pickles but I might just try that when GD strikes , that was so funny !!

[Nikki.]

I don?t think everyone needs to go to therapy to figure out their gender issues, but it sounds like it would be of value to you. Getting some street time presenting female would be good. Find a support group near you, present female, and go meet a variety of trans people. see what resonates.

i wasn?t sure how long i would continue, or how i would feel about feminizing my body through hrt, but knew if i didn?t it would nag me for the rest of my life, and i would be broken. so i did. i don?t always feel ?yah, lets get pretty?. i wore a guys tank top and shorts yesterday after changing out of women?s shorts and a tee. but i am always pleased when i look in the mirror and see how my body has changed, and wish the changes were more significant. i don?t desire my old guy body back. and regardless of the clothes i?m wearing, i?m always me. the presentation actually became far less significant to me once i worked out who I was.

[IamWren]

.... regardless of the clothes i?m wearing, i?m always me. the presentation actually became far less significant to me once i worked out who I was.

This is what I was hoping for the most through HRT and surprisingly after three months I’m happy to report that’s how I feel about putting on all the accoutrements to perform gender as a woman.

As for inadvertently giving yourself a sort of reverse dysphoria... as an enby it was something I was really worried about as well and to some degree still am but I’m working on that with my therapist.

p.s. and yeah... growing boobs sucks. Not because of reverse dysphoria so much but because it really hurts.

[Nikki.]

they eventually stop hurting :)

[Jeri Ann]

After 20 years and BA I still have breast tenderness as a result of taking Estrogen. It is a common side effect even for post menopausal women who take estrogen.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

me too......................

[Mia_799]

Deleted this post.

[Nikki.]

So, if you search on my user name you’ll find some posts with similarities. I never prayed for god to make me into a girl, i prayed for god to take the desire to be a girl away and just make me normal, whatever that meant. didn’t work.

My take is most humans are burdened with some thing or things to be unhappy about, and i got dealt the trans hand in the great poker game of life. I doubt it ever goes away or I’ll be content or happy, however you wish to define it. For me it’s an optimization game...how can i reduce the dysphoria while minimizing the impact to other parts of my life...marriage, career, children, friendships, extended family. Because if i was dysphoria free but lost all my relationships, i would be miserable in a different way. I’ve found some of the consistent messages from people who have transitioned to be true- there’s fallout from family in particular. But the enormous anxiety i had about getting found out is gone. I’d rather live honestly, and that has become more important than some relationships.

On boob pain, mine hurt for about a year. My e was above 200 pg/ml, so my doctor cut my dose, which brought my level down to around 120, which also seemed to stall development and the boob pain stopped. i added spiro back in, and as of last week my e was up to 176 pg/ml, with my t around 120. I’m satisfied with both levels for now. boobs seem to be growing again, and no pain, even when bumped into something. for whatever reason my hormones levels seem to be pretty sensitive to minor amounts of estradiol and spironolactone. lucky me.

- - - Updated - - -

two more things:

1. Can you battle the thoughts (possibly dysphoria) without engaging in any cross gender activities? I think it’s possible. Humans seem to have individual “happiness” set points eg hedonic adaptation. people that undergo horrific losses or physical impairment seem to return to their previous level of happiness. So through stoicism or mindfulness or whatever other technique you find can you retrain your brain to shut out the “background noise” as i call it? Probably worth a shot. Living as a transgender person can be a tough life.

2. As you explore, don’t fall prey to the madness of crowds. There is no single right way to be transgender, or correct , predetermined tasks you need to check off to be a legit transgender person. Do what you need to do and ignore those who tell you otherwise. There’s a lot of that in the world. Take your time too, there’s no rush.

Good luck!

[Mia_799]

Deleted this post.

[Teresa]

Mia,
I can only speak from a UK perspective but I have TG friends and TS friends how they are treated is more to do with their personality than their gender issues . OK I'm not a shrinking violet , I need people , I'm struggling more with that problem through the Covid 19 lockdown than I am with my gender issues . I really haven't seen trans people treated horribly by outsiders but I have seen them treat other members of their social group badly .

My friends keep telling me to start hormone treatment but I really don't think they would change my life that much , I'm sure you'll agree they aren't a magic pill that puts everything right , they affect people in different ways . If hormones help you achieve a balance that's great , at the moment I OK where I am .

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Right.

Bluntly. You don't know what's going to happen. If you are expressing your feelings honestly, GD will not go away. The feeling you are sharing does not sound like a feminization fantasy, it sounds like you are coming to terms with what makes you feel like an authentic person.

The way to proceed is do something, and evaluate the result.

I've been around here way too long to say "hey stop all the talking" because that's not really gonna happen, and I think all the writing and venting an going back and forth is helpful. Get it all out
But it would help to talk and think less until you have something new to talk and think about.

I did things like pluck one eyebrow every day until a month later they were a bit more feminine... I'd look at my eyebrows in the mirror constantly... I did it over time because I was afraid of "being caught"... I did the same thing with fingernails...one day somebody at work commented on them... I clipped them that night. My mind was filled with conflict and fear.. And over about 4 years I got more and more bold and actually was going outside and shopping etc..during that time i found this forum and it was only then that I started to get the GD REALLY BAD because the thought of transition being "possible" drove me mad... that's when i changed therapists and over 2 years transitioned. That's just my experience... but I can say for sure I had alot of feelings you share here. I had all the same fears... I did just as much rabbit hole thinking, wishing it were different and howling at the moon.. it was only by doing things and then reflecting on those things did i ever make any progress at all.

[Mia_799]

Deleted this post.

[Teresa]

Mia,
Hormones wouldn't have solved my dysphoria , being free to chose how I presented myself did , I guess I was lucky with my physical size and shape , it only takes a little extra in my bra to be comfortable with my appearance , I don't make a big issue of not having an hour glass figure , I slot in quite nicely as a trim lady which most people appear to be OK with . I agree the mental side is trickier , counselling got me through enough to know what I needed to find a balance . You suggest you would still like to experience marriage and being a parent , I have no regrets about that part of my life but the pressure and suppression was unbearable at times . So it is " Swings and roundabouts ! " I had all that , you have the total freedom to do exactly as you choose without those restraints . We never have everything in life because life is a compromise , you just have to find what makes you happy and go for it , the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence .

[Mia_799]

Deleted this post.

[Nikki.]

Since our individual experiences are by definition subjective, who knows. But my guess is there’s some group think with supposed physiological feelings associated with mtf hrt. I get sore easier doing physical stuff and recovery is harder. I also have some menopausal like symptoms so that’s super fun. sex is different, is more psych dependent and is better. actually much better.

I did experience a reduction in dysphoria, which could be a psychosomatic effect, or it could be the reduction in T.

The emotional roller coaster was pretty real, and lasted around 10 months.