Detransition

[Robin-in-TX]

Hello everyone,

So, in June I decided to stop HRT and try and let my body reverse course. It was not because I'm unsure if I am trans, I'm just as sure now as I was when I was 6. I just don't have the internal strength to be the real me and the timing is bad. I was changing too fast in a pandemic where no one sees me. I haven't been to my office since March and I could not imagine going in after being away for a year at the rate my body was changing. If it was slowly in the work place, maybe but it would have been alright. But as it was, it would have been a shock and as I hate being the focus of attention, I just could not do it.

In case anyone else is considering it, wondered what could happen if you stopped transition or have done it and want to compare your experience, I thought I would describe how that is for me. I took my first E pill October 8, 2019 and my first Spiro at the very end of December. I'm not sure when I took my last but I think it was around the start of the 3rd week in June. At the time I stopped, my dose was 3X what my starting dose was.

First, at the time I stopped, I loved my skin. It was soft, the hair was barely growing, I did not have a 5 o'clock shadow and I was really happy with the way that was progressing. The hair on my chest and stomach has really come back. It is softer and lighter and not as full but definitely close to pre-transition. The hair on my legs is a kind of patchy and not as full for sure. I didn't have hair on my calves pre-transition. It was rubbed off by boots during 24 years in the Army. It is still gone. Some hair on the back of my fingers has come back, it had been gone. It isn't as thick or dark though.

Before de-transitioning, my breasts were really growing and were the source of great happiness and great dread. They were hard, hurt and filling out at an alarming rate. I couldn't imagine showing up at work with them when no one had seen me in so long. They hadn't gotten so large that I'm worried about it right now. A large shirt should be fine, but if they kept going, I don't know how that would have turned out. My plan was that it would go so slowly that only I may know the difference. That was not going to happen. Since I stopped transitioning, I still have breasts. They are not firm like they were and have shrunk some but they are still there. I had a decent male chest from years of lifting and thousands of pushups. Now, I don't have a nice male chest. I have breasts. I would not go out without a shirt. I would be really self conscious about it.

My hair, which had been really thinning, filled in quite a bit during HRT. It was never going to come back enough, but there was a definite difference. Also, my hair wasn't oily at all. Now, well I think that hair loss has accelerated. Maybe I'm back to where I started, maybe it is worse, I don't know. I do know that it is real. Maybe the T really kicking in ramped that up. I don't know.

How do I feel about it? I feel a deep sense of loss. I haven't changed. I'm still trans and living a life that is false to me. I haven't purged anything and still wear night gowns to bed and women's underwear and other things. But, I felt I was becoming myself and now I have lost it. I think about restarting my transition on a daily basis. I probably won't, I just can't show up one day and shock everyone.

If you have any questions about it and the process of turning the clock back, please ask. But, please don't be snarky. This post is just to describe the process of de-transitioning as it applies to me because it might be helpful to someone who is considering it. Your experience just like the
experience with HRT may be radically different.

Robin

[Lana Mae]

Only one question! Are you happy? I would never de-transition and am so happy where I am! I do wish you well on your journey how ever you fare! Hugs Lana Mae

[Robin-in-TX]

Only one question! Are you happy? I would never de-transition and am so happy where I am! I do wish you well on your journey how ever you fare! Hugs Lana Mae

Lana Mae,

No, I'm not happy about it. It is what it is though. I could not show up a year into transition. I just could not do it.

Thank you for the well wishes.

Robin.

[Katya@]

Hi Robin,

Thank you so much for sharing your story. I'm very saddened to read that it's something that you feel you had to do knowing it won't make you happy. I respect your decision and is good that your share it with everyone. Although reading the physical changes from detransition - is like a nightmare scenario for me...

You shared little about your job and I get the feeling that it's something very important to you and you don't want to lose it. With that said, I thought to share that I have a senior engineering position with my company where no one to my knowledge is openly trans. I became the first one and nothing really changed. I wonder how much of your fear about being known as trans at your job is in your head vs. the real downside to you. The world is changing. We have gay candidates for president, transgender state senators, and assembly persons, military officers, etc. The world is getting better thanks to all who came before us.

Anyways, I hope you could find peace one way or another. There is no stigma about whether you will change your mind or not. I suggest to work with a therapist. It's important to maintain mental health through this difficult stage in your life.

Hugs,
Katya

[Dorit]

Robin dear, I believe that many of us have had the same fears of rejection if we continued on the path of transition. I did. What helped me not to let fear rule my life was intensive therapy with a gender specialists. I strongly want to encourage you to seek this while your transition is on "Hold."

[mbmeen12]

Well done Robin and I, am in the same shoes as you...and your life issues are not so radial. That is why we are here too and for supporting each other.

[MarieTS]

Robin, I can nearly feel the heart-tugging pain in your post. I feel for you: Needing to be in one place but having to go to another. Sort of a caterpillar who needs so desperately to be that butterfly but forced to become a moth. If I had the power to fix it for you I would. But you must do what is right for you. I strongly suggest you follow the advice given above and avail yourself to some counselling. It will help you deal with your detransition -- as you put it -- while at the same time providing a link to return should that need and opportunity ever present itself.
We are always here for you!

[Teresa]

Robin,
I'm not going to deny the pandemic has turned the World upside down, not to see friends and work colleagues for so long is hard to deal with . It is a depressing time full of inner soul searching . I'm sorry you have seen your progress with mixed feelings , like Katya I don't feel I could step back after seeing the wonderful results but I have never had to face work colleagues with transition issues . I do wonder if most of them will just be glad to see you back fit and healthy no matter where you were in transition , I know at some point that bridge has to be crossed . I'm not on hormones but do live fulltime I feel stepping back would affect my health too much .

I'm sure you will work it out and wish you all the best .

[Krisi]

I see a lot of conflict in your post and it's sad to see you loosing what you seem to have liked so much. Is there another choice? Get a different job? Move to a different town? Actually "come out" at work and make the transition official?

It's your choice of course, but you will only live once and if at all possible, you should live the way you want to live.

[Sarah Doepner]

Robin,
There are always reasons to put our goals and attempt to be happy on the back burner, regardless of what it is that we wish for. I waited until I was retired and my wife had passed away before I sorted everything out and now, I'm finally in transition. I've timed it to use the lockdowns to do the work and there are people who will see me for the first time as Sarah only after the pandemic is under control. But the circumstances have changed from years ago and I have a lot less to lose.
Please share here or, even better, with a counselor so you don't keep things bottled up. We all understand that is a problem that only gets bigger. You've known since age 6, so I hope you will keep the dream in your heart and consider this less a "de-transition" and more a pause in the progress you've spent years to attain.
Good luck and know there are many who love and support you regardless.

[Debra Russell]

this is the most important thing to ponder on "It's your choice of course, but you will only live once and if at all possible, you should live the way you want to live." what Krisi said and please listen to Sarah Charles ... make a happy journey .......................Debra

[Aunt Kelly]

As wrenching as I know this must be for you, be thankful that you have a choice. Be mindful though, of the implications of that choice.

Not living as our authentic self comes at a cost. The further along the path I go, the more I can see what that cost has been, and weigh that into account.

[kimdl93]

Robin, I think most everyone totally gets your reasons. My thought is that perhaps you might look at this as a period of coasting, a chance to bleed off some of the physiological momentum. I cannot speak to the clinical impacts of stopping or slowing down HRT, but my hope is that once you are able to return to your workplace on a regular basis, you might be able to resume HRT and regain some of the positives you are already beginning to miss. Best of luck!

[CD Rachel]

Robin,

I have no sage advice to offer but I did want you to know that I can feel the pain that you have expressed in your post and my heart breaks for you. I hope that you are able to find a path that offers you solace and in time you may find the courage you need to continue your transition. You have already shown far more courage then I have ever been able to muster.

Rachel

From the book Dune:
“I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

[Robin-in-TX]

Hi Robin,

Thank you so much for sharing your story. I'm very saddened to read that it's something that you feel you had to do knowing it won't make you happy. I respect your decision and is good that your share it with everyone. Although reading the physical changes from detransition - is like a nightmare scenario for me...

You shared little about your job and I get the feeling that it's something very important to you and you don't want to lose it. With that said, I thought to share that I have a senior engineering position with my company where no one to my knowledge is openly trans. I became the first one and nothing really changed. I wonder how much of your fear about being known as trans at your job is in your head vs. the real downside to you. The world is changing. We have gay candidates for president, transgender state senators, and assembly persons, military officers, etc. The world is getting better thanks to all who came before us.

Anyways, I hope you could find peace one way or another. There is no stigma about whether you will change your mind or not. I suggest to work with a therapist. It's important to maintain mental health through this difficult stage in your life.

Hugs,
Katya

Thank you for reading and responding everyone. I appreciate you taking the time. I really want to be clear that this is totally internal for me. I can't continue transition under the circumstances, I am not wired for it.

I hope I didn't overly stress my job to the point that it seems I'm afraid to lose it. I'm not. From an employment and fiscal resource perspective, I am more fortunate than many of our sisters here. I'm a retired Army officer with a 100% VA disability rating. I work as an attorney for the Air Force and there are protections against discrimination. Beyond that, I do a really good job and plan to retire in just a couple of years anyway. Some people at work would accept the change and others would not. That is true for everyone, everywhere. I know that you are all familiar with the challenges.

What I don't have that many of you do is the courage to follow this path under the current circumstances. I looked at myself in the mirror, liked the changes and felt more myself but I cannot take the spotlight that would come with going from, Robin-all-guy, to Robin-a-woman all in one day. It would be like one day. I left on vacation March 6 and haven't been back. It will be at least March 2021 before I return, maybe later. If I stayed on track, who knows what my body would be by then. I'm certain it would have been noticeable because it already was.

Like many here, I learned to act like the guy that people wanted to see. It never was me. But, it is all I know and right now that is where I have to stay.

Again, thank you all for writing. The reason for my post was to talk about what it is like to go backward in case anyone is in the same position. I don't know what I'm going to do in the future, I may start transition again when life stops resembling a Stephen King novel.

Robin

[Teresa]

Robin,
Taking the spotlight is daunting at times , the feeling that all eyes are on you mostly is in the mind because people aren't looking at you anymore than others . I know it often comes from the doubts raised by knowing underneath is still a guy of some desciption , hormones aren't a magic pill so the feelings can take a long time leaving you . Transition isn't totally a one way street but doing a U turn is very hard , I feel you have been brave taking it . I guess the point is don't beat yourself up over it , if you do another U turn in the future does it really matter , you maybe more confident next time to travel further down that road .

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I don't think you "detransitioned" I think you stopped or paused it.

That's not a criticism but I think the anti-T community loves that word, loves to act like its the most horrible thing that can ever happen to a person and loves to take the most vocal de-transitioners who are often people that should have never transitioned in the first place and puts them on a pedastal..

Nothing is absolute or final especially if you havent changed your name, legal status..etc..

You need just as much if not more support for your situation than anyone that has got through this and transitioned as well.

[Robin-in-TX]

I don't think you "detransitioned" I think you stopped or paused it.

That's not a criticism but I think the anti-T community loves that word, loves to act like its the most horrible thing that can ever happen to a person and loves to take the most vocal de-transitioners who are often people that should have never transitioned in the first place and puts them on a pedastal..

Nothing is absolute or final especially if you havent changed your name, legal status..etc..

You need just as much if not more support for your situation than anyone that has got through this and transitioned as well.

Kaitlyn,

This is a fair statement. I am only describing the physical changes that I have experienced by stopping HRT at the point that I did. There is no agenda here other than to provide anecdotal information on my personal experience in case someone else is considering it and might find it helpful.

As I still consider myself trans, this is just about my body and not my sense of being. Thank you.

Robin

[oh to be rachel]

Question, did you have weight gain or loss either transitioning or detransitioning?

[Robin-in-TX]

Question, did you have weight gain or loss either transitioning or detransitioning?

Hi,

This is a hard question to answer. When I was at my workplace, I walked everyday at lunch and they gave us 3 hours per week to do physical training, which I always used at the gym I've been sitting in my house since March with little exercise, certainly nothing like I had and I'm not risking any gym. So, I have gained weight from sitting here and I cannot tell you if any of it is related to starting, upping dosages or stopping HRT.

Robin

[kimdl93]

Hi,

This is a hard question to answer. When I was at my workplace, I walked everyday at lunch and they gave us 3 hours per week to do physical training, which I always used at the gym I've been sitting in my house since March with little exercise, certainly nothing like I had and I'm not risking any gym. So, I have gained weight from sitting here and I cannot tell you if any of it is related to starting, upping dosages or stopping HRT.

Robin

Robin, I refer to my inactivity-induced weight gain as my Covid-19. At this point its probably closer to a covid-15 but by the time a vaccine is available it may be Covid-25!

[Nadine Spirit]

My heart goes out to you and I wish you the best.

I agree with you about courage, it takes lots of it to transition. I work as a middle school teacher. I left students in May for the summer as Mr ____ , and in August I had some of those same students who then learned to address me as Mrs ______ . It was very much what you described as in a radical change and not some slow process. Shockingly they all totally went with it, and I have not actually had any issues now for three years running.

If you're not ready, you're not ready. Who knows what the future will bring. It's sure to be interesting.

On the wall of my classroom I wrote - it takes bravery and courage to gain confidence.

[StaceyJane]

Robin, I work in an army Hospital on Ft Hood. While I don't present as female on the job I have been on HRT for several years and have noticeable breasts (which I totally love). Nobody has ever said anything about it. I do have a gay co worker who wears fingernail polish ever day to work. He does a good job and nobody says anything to him either.
I also shave my legs everyday and wear shorts all the time. Again no problem. Actually I really like the way my body is now and wouldn't go back to make anybody happy.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

It's all good... Not trying to be word police.

Just my 2 cents on some people weaponize the word.

Like I said. You need just as much support as anyone that transitions.

[JeanTG]

I'm more or less in the same boat as Robin. I am totally sympathetic. I too stopped HRT. Twice. I gained weight (about 3-5 lbs) after I stopped as I'm an avid cyclist, and my muscle mass built back up (very quickly!) on T. I noticed a huge improvement in performance and reduced muscle pain on big climbs, almost overnight about 3 weeks after stopping HRT. It happened both times. I enjoyed the feminizing effects of HRT, and I enjoy the muscle effects of T. Just another datum to add to the confusion. It's all good, we all have to find our happy spot. Nobody can find it for us but ourselves.

[phylis anne]

Hi katya,
yes what we might lose is very important especially at my age at 66 , fear of losing a job or fear on how you will be accepted are very real and affect us all differently , with me I think my daughter knows more than she is saying LOL and may be open minded to it my son on the other hand is quite phobic but I do not feel he knowledge other than what social media provides .i recently after a 10 year battle lost both mom and wife mom to heart failure at 99.5 4 months later my wife to alzheimer"s I kept her home all those years in respect to her wishes , this has left me in a strange vacum over the last year and now find myself more than ever wanting to reach out but also be accepted for who I am there again is that fear ,in my favor I am gender fluid if you will as a tomboy so easy to dress and present unisex but also lean heavier in the girl dept, if that makes any sense I am almost retired time to head back to alaska and reunite my inner peace

- - - Updated - - -

love what you wrote on your chalk board sadly human wise we cannot always practice what we feel with ourselves , as to your students kids seem to me more accepting as a rule and the only backlash you might see would be a narrow minded parent acting like a karen if you will to the admin youve made it 3 years well the only reply there is youv'e got this girl!!

[NicoleRenee]

Thank you for that Robin. I am going to start that part of the transition next month. For someone with a lot of questions about not being sure if they want to start, they have an idea of what might happen if you stop. Same thing for ones that have started and are in the same situation as you or maybe for different reasons. This is the kind of information I look for on this site. I know everyone is different but it gives good information. Again, thank you.

[Katya@]

Hi phylis anne,
I'm sorry to hear about all the family loses you had. The fear is real, regardless of age and circumstances. It is always tempting to justify why it was easy for someone else to come out vs. your own circumstances. The truth is, it's hard for everyone, and the truth is it was harder yet for those who came out when the world was a less accepting place than today. But there is a lot of reward that comes with it, like the freedom to be who you are, and there is a satisfaction that you are helping to make the world a more accepting place by your own example and may just help and give a courage to do the same to someone else, who is in a similar situations. Good luck!

[LeaP]

... I hate being the focus of attention ...

I can barely begin to tell you how much this statement resonates. It's a very prominent theme in my life, both personal and public. It, plus social anxiety, are even behind some suicide ideation. I regard it as a manifestation of growing up trans.

This theme runs through and through the OP. I sympathize and empathize. Nonetheless, some focused counseling is in order, IMO. It might have been better earlier, but better late than never.

[Katya@]

Hi Lea,

For what it's worth - based on my personal experience, I got zero attention or focus after coming out to friends and colleagues, to the point that it bothered me. I personally don't mind to be the center of attention but it felt like everyone just moved on and didn't care, at least in front of me. I was hoping to educate people, etc, but only few reached out with any questions. Was I subject of discussions by others behind my back? Yes, I was. I found out number of those offline discussions among family members, but even those are short lived. If this is the only reason that holds you back - I wouldn't stress out about it.

[Teresa]

Katya,
It's the expectation of thinking we will be the centre of attention , I now turn it round and see it as total acceptance , I do also think we have educated people because I don't get a response . We must remember that some people have never come across a TG person before , how are they expected to react ? The fact I've gained so many new friends says it all to me .

[Robin-in-TX]

I can barely begin to tell you how much this statement resonates. It's a very prominent theme in my life, both personal and public. It, plus social anxiety, are even behind some suicide ideation. I regard it as a manifestation of growing up trans.

This theme runs through and through the OP. I sympathize and empathize. Nonetheless, some focused counseling is in order, IMO. It might have been better earlier, but better late than never.

Hi LeaP and everyone who responded,

First, let me say that the focus of my post is more on the physical effects of putting your transition on pause months after beginning HRT. I was just trying to be helpful as I did not see a lot on it out there. Most of the de-trans postings on the web focus on delegitimizing being a trans person and not giving information on the effects of having to or deciding to halt transition. There are plenty of medical reasons that would interrupt a woman's ability to take feminizing hormones. My post might be helpful to either group of people, those who medically must stop transition and those like me who choose to.

Next, I have always known that my parents gave me XY chromosomes for an XX soul. I'm just as trans today as I was when I was 5 or 10 or 35 or 55. At least for now though, I am not prepared to continue transition under the current circumstances. I admire all of you that see your way through the challenges, I'm just not personally wired to do that. Holding the position that I do in the organization I am in, it would draw attention. I was ready to slowly transition in the workplace but the pandemic has kept me out of the workplace for the foreseeable future. Once we are back, if I'm ready, I'll start again.

I'm glad the discussion has expanded beyond the scope of my original post. Transition is multilevel chess and the lines are very blurred. It does not exist on only a physical or emotional or psychological level.

Thank you all again for contributing.

Robin

[Teresa]

Robin,
I'm so glad you've posted this thread , we all know transition isn't a bed of roses and taking a step back isn't always the wrong move to make . I guess one aspect of going on hormones after telling everyone is the fear that you may have to reject the idea and people saying " I told you so !" I'm thinking more about close family and possibly work colleagues with that comment .

I hope you can resolve your dilemma , my gut feeling is your work colleagues will be more supportive than not if you cahnge your mind in the future .

[JeanTG]

I guess one aspect of going on hormones after telling everyone is the fear that you may have to reject the idea and people saying " I told you so !" I'm thinking more about close family and possibly work colleagues with that comment .



In my experience it's a lot harder to put the toothpaste back into the tube than squeezing it out (coming out).

[JohnH]

Robin, I have been on estradiol valerate for 9 years and still have not socially transition from being male with my masculine name and never will. I have developed DD sized breasts and I as a man was never been made uncomfortable by anyone with my figure. With a bra cup size of DD it's not possible to hide my breasts. With my experience I say it is possible to take estrogen and remain a man.

I don't miss the.sharp male.scent.I used to have and enjoy my.more youthful appearance. Also I don't have to shave my face every day anymore as the growth has slowed down. I'm calmer.and I no longer have the urge to drink to excess.

John

[IamWren]

I've been wanting to add my experience to this thread but have had a hard time trying to concisely craft my comment because, as Robin said in #32, "Transition is multilevel chess..." and "It does not exist on only a physical or emotional or psychological level."

I'll do my best to keep it short though.

About five weeks ago I decided I had to stop my medical transition.

The changes I experienced I'm sure won't be the same for everyone. This is primarily because the antiandrogen I was taking, my dosage of estrogen and its delivery method might be different from yours. And of course because not everyone reacts the same to hormone therapy even if all that were identical.

First week: no perceptible changes whatsoever.
Second week: no perceptible changes until the fourth day of the week. There were a few slight, almost imperceptible changes. For example, I began to notice slight changes that indicated my skin was reverting back. My mental and emotional state seemed to be changing back a little as well.

I feel like I should add here (and perhaps I've buried the lede but) I knew that this pause in my medical transition would be temporary. Whether that was going to be 2 to 3 weeks, a month or six months. I knew it would only be temporary. With that in mind, I felt ok mentally and emotionally going into this pause certain I would start again.

Third week: by this time I could tell my emotional and mental state was changing back quite a bit. There was an underlying anger, irritability, resentment, aggressiveness and quick temper that my wife had complained about in the past that was slight but coming back. By the end of this third week, my wife and I were arguing a little bit every day. Also in this third week, I began noticing a few more physical changes. About the third or fourth day of this week I had my first night erection. That had not happened since about my 10th day of taking my hormone therapy meds. My skin was no longer as soft as it had been before. My "boy smell" came back a little. And it seemed as though the shape of my face began to revert back, even if it was just the slightest bit that it changed in the few months I had been taking my medicine. The pores on my face were more visible as well. I also noticed the tiny bit of fat deposit I had gotten in my thighs and rear end had started to revert back. The tiny bit of breast development I had, was becoming soft and squishy, more like man boobs and didn't really have the firm feel they had before.

Fourth week: the changes were most noticeable at this time. My skin was no longer soft. The pores in my face were clearly visible. The whiskers on my face we're growing like they had before. The slight curve and feminine shape I had been seeing was now gone, my nipples no longer ached and were no longer as easy to hurt as they were before and I couldn't "feel" them. What I mean by that is I couldn't feel them against my bicep or my forearm when I put my hand up to my neck or face. Emotionally I was back to my old, mean, irritated and frustrated self. It would take very little to make me irritable and have me lash out at my wife.

There are a few other things but this is getting very long so I'll end it here.
I will add this last bit though. I have started taking my meds again. Today in fact ends one week. I can say with utmost certainty (and my wife can confirm), estrogen helps me to be a nicer person. I am amazed at how quickly I responded physically and emotionally once I started again. Only two days and my boobs had that firm sort of feeling to them and that weird little ache. Also I didn't feel like being mean anymore as well. A full week and things are even better.

[JohnH]

The benefits of estrogen medication have been so.great I don't want.to.stop. My wife.notices that I.am.a lot calmer and not so irritable. She even says, *John, take your hormone" when I'm crabby.

[Teresa]

Iamwren,
Many thanks for taking the trouble to tell us your experiences .

As you say at the start and echoed Robin's words there are layers to this and each person has a different experience , partially perhaps from the mental situation .

OK I admit I'm not on hormones but still experience the changes in my attitude , by that I mean on the odd occasions I have to do male mode I'm a different person , the aggressive side surfaces , I'm less tolerant when driving . I finally persuaded my mother to see me as Teresa because of that reason , I had to admit to her being the man was too painful .

As for taking hormones I'm more on the fence than ever , my TS friend advises against it simply because I'm where I want to be now , my TG friends keep wondering what's holding me back . How do I feel ? Well I would like to have the changes you describe .

[Katya@]

Hi Wren. Thanks for sharing your experience. After 3 years into transitions, imagining the reversal to my old self, is nothing short of a traumatic experience. On the upside, it is just as useful to understand that I am on the right track.

[JeanTG]

IamWren,

Almost exactly describes my experience and timelines coming off HRT.

[Helen_Highwater]

Robin,

As someone who falls into the CD'ing camp I was left pondering how your situation is that different from those who decide to "Come out" and go full time without transitioning. Theirs is an instant transformation, drab to fab overnight. Their work colleagues are faced with the situation you describe as having to face and from what's written here most report only positive outcomes.

So pardon me but I have to ask, is this a case of those little gremlins sitting on your shoulder whispering about how it's all going to turn out horribly wrong when in reality that's far from the truth.

Having started your transition months before the virus hit I'm assuming your colleagues knew of your situation and while you may find yourself the focus of attention my guess is that'll be short lived as the novelty will wear off quite quickly, much like when someone gives birth and returns to the office with lots of pictures, this is the way of things.

[Robin-in-TX]

Robin,

As someone who falls into the CD'ing camp I was left pondering how your situation is that different from those who decide to "Come out" and go full time without transitioning. Theirs is an instant transformation, drab to fab overnight. Their work colleagues are faced with the situation you describe as having to face and from what's written here most report only positive outcomes.

So pardon me but I have to ask, is this a case of those little gremlins sitting on your shoulder whispering about how it's all going to turn out horribly wrong when in reality that's far from the truth.

Having started your transition months before the virus hit I'm assuming your colleagues knew of your situation and while you may find yourself the focus of attention my guess is that'll be short lived as the novelty will wear off quite quickly, much like when someone gives birth and returns to the office with lots of pictures, this is the way of things.

Helen,

Your assumption was off. Those at work did not know that I had begun transition. I was transitioning medically before transitioning socially. While physical changes were occurring, people see what they expect to see until the dissonance between their eyes and their brains requires them to reevaluate what they expect. When you change right in front of someone, they just adjust as you go. There was real change between starting HRT in October and December but not so radical that anyone that saw me everyday would notice. I started spiro at the end of December and that with the increase in E gave me good results but I was only on the job until March 6th. Once I increased both again in April, things really took off. When I stopped I was approaching the next appointment with another increase in dosages. Had I continued, I would have had increases in October and perhaps this month.

Are the "gremlins" on my shoulders whispering in my ears? Well, I think that is what I said. I don't fear for my job. I don't fear that I will lose my income or health insurance or face the issues that many of our sisters do who have the strength to see it through. It takes a lot of courage to transition and become who you really are. I don't have that kind of courage. Going to war, I've done that. It is scary but, no problem. Put on a skirt and makeup and go to work? I'm not that brave, even though it represents who I am.

Robin

[Katya@]

It takes a lot of courage to transition and become who you really are. I don't have that kind of courage. Going to war, I've done that. It is scary but, no problem. Put on a skirt and makeup and go to work? I'm not that brave, even though it represents who I am
Perhaps a paradox for cis folks but so real for trans folks!

[LisaMarieDayton]

I have found myself questioning for awhile if I had the personal courage to be out at work as Lisa. I am a city transit bus driver and it was extremely rough dealing with gang members, drug addicts, drunks, and teenagers as a male and I thought there wasn't any way I could do the job as a trans female. It turns out that I can. The days have been tough; however. I get called gay slurs and have been laughed at almost everyday. It's okay to question yourself and ask if you have the courage to transition at work. Go at a pace you are comfortable with. Don't feel bad about yourself for retreating and formulating a new plan of action. For me, I am glad I did transition full time, but it isn't for everyone and that is okay.

[Ugly_duckling]

Thank you for sharing this! Some of these issues are why I am not even considering transitioning right now.

[sarahcsc]

I was changing too fast in a pandemic where no one sees me... If it was slowly in the work place, maybe but it would have been alright. But as it was, it would have been a shock and as I hate being the focus of attention, I just could not do it.... I just can't show up one day and shock everyone... I cannot take the spotlight that would come with going from, Robin-all-guy, to Robin-a-woman all in one day... Are the "gremlins" on my shoulders whispering in my ears?...
Robin

Dear Robin,

I'm sorry you are going through this. I don't think anybody has mentioned this to you, but you ought to be aware of something called 'internalized transphobia'. It is a phenomenon whereby people internalize societal attitudes and stigma towards transpeople and mistakenly assuming that stigma as their own and directing it towards themselves.

I am a psychiatrist who is trans and I work with transpeople to get over their issues. Internalized transphobia is quite a common phenomenon with clients I encounter, especially if they are of the boomer generation (younger generations are less transphobic). They don't just worry about 'not passing', they are particularly disgusted by the image and notion of themselves looking like a 'man in a dress'. It is exactly what a transphobe would say except they have internalized it and saying it to themselves.

They are also afraid of 'too much change' or 'changing too fast', which is what a transphobe would say to them when they can't accept someone's transition.

It is rarely about shocking other people (although transphobes will be the ones who are most shocked in general) but shocking yourself. I have an inkling that your reluctance is about not wanting to shock the internalized transphobe within yourself (your little gremlins) by showing up in the front of a mirror one day looking a certain way.

But of course, I may be wrong. :) I'll leave you to ponder that.

My patients sometimes ask me about the statistics of detransition. There are some good data here (https://www.ustranssurvey.org/) if you're interested. Basically, amongst some 30,000 transpeople interviewed in the US in 2015, roughly 8% have de-transitioned at least once. But get this, 62% of the de-transitioners have re-transitioned and living full time as their preferred gender. Very few actually 'regret' their transition due to identity confusion, most de-transition because of peer pressure (and maybe internalised transphobia too).

Don't be too hard on yourself ok? There is always love and acceptance around and within yourself, but you have to first believe that you are deserving of it.

Take care,
S

[Teresa]

Sarah,
Many thanks for taking the time to give a professional opinion but your last line says it all for me , finding the true person that is deserving , for some of us it takes almost a lifetime .

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Dear Robin,

I'm sorry you are going through this. I don't think anybody has mentioned this to you, but you ought to be aware of something called 'internalized transphobia'. It is a phenomenon whereby people internalize societal attitudes and stigma towards transpeople and mistakenly assuming that stigma as their own and directing it towards themselves.

I am a psychiatrist who is trans and I work with transpeople to get over their issues. Internalized transphobia is quite a common phenomenon with clients I encounter, especially if they are of the boomer generation (younger generations are less transphobic). They don't just worry about 'not passing', they are particularly disgusted by the image and notion of themselves looking like a 'man in a dress'. It is exactly what a transphobe would say except they have internalized it and saying it to themselves.

They are also afraid of 'too much change' or 'changing too fast', which is what a transphobe would say to them when they can't accept someone's transition.

It is rarely about shocking other people (although transphobes will be the ones who are most shocked in general) but shocking yourself. I have an inkling that your reluctance is about not wanting to shock the internalized transphobe within yourself (your little gremlins) by showing up in the front of a mirror one day looking a certain way.

But of course, I may be wrong. :) I'll leave you to ponder that.

My patients sometimes ask me about the statistics of detransition. There are some good data here (https://www.ustranssurvey.org/) if you're interested. Basically, amongst some 30,000 transpeople interviewed in the US in 2015, roughly 8% have de-transitioned at least once. But get this, 62% of the de-transitioners have re-transitioned and living full time as their preferred gender. Very few actually 'regret' their transition due to identity confusion, most de-transition because of peer pressure (and maybe internalised transphobia too).

Don't be too hard on yourself ok? There is always love and acceptance around and within yourself, but you have to first believe that you are deserving of it.

Take care,
S

I am so delighted that you posted this comment.
Your perspective and your compassion is so constructive.
I hope everyone reads it twice.

I suffer"ed" from internalized transphobia. It was very destructive to me.

I wonder if internalized "de transition phobia" is a thing??

[Devi SM]

I remember when in the week 8 of HRT, naked my breast was obvious, my wife told me "you won't be able to go to the beach with your kids" (three married men, we barely go to the beach all together). I was scaried. I quit from HRT but just one week was enough to feel that my life would be worse, I resume and never stop again.

Things never resulted as my nightmares predicted..
My life is actually far better..

I know your purpose in this thread is to show others the effects of de-transition but I agree with Rachel that this kind of post do damage to us.

I think there are some contradictions in your posts and I'd like you can explain because things don't work in that way.

"I just can't show up one day and shock everyone." Do you really think the world turn around you?

" I am not wired for it"

Who is?

"Some people at work would accept the change and others would not."
So no everybody turns around you.

"That is true for everyone, everywhere. I know that you are all familiar with the challenges.
I don't have that many of you do is the courage to follow this path under the current circumstances."

It's not about courage but about who we're, I couldn't keep lying to myself and of course to the rest. Many don't see that. A lot of people see on a trans out of the closet an honest person that decide to stop lying to the world.

" I cannot take the spotlight that would come with going from, Robin-all-guy, to Robin-a-woman all in one day. It would be like one day."

I think many will agree with me. That's 100% not true, there's not such, you don't need to do such thing. Things don't need to be done in "one day.

I don't want to be cruel but just face you with other reality you may be didn't see.

I wish you the best but that doesn't go in the road you did chose.

Mho.

Devi San Martin

[Robin-in-TX]

I remember when in the week 8 of HRT, naked my breast was obvious, my wife told me "you won't be able to go to the beach with your kids" (three married men, we barely go to the beach all together). I was scaried. I quit from HRT but just one week was enough to feel that my life would be worse, I resume and never stop again.

Things never resulted as my nightmares predicted..
My life is actually far better..

I know your purpose in this thread is to show others the effects of de-transition but I agree with Rachel that this kind of post do damage to us.

I think there are some contradictions in your posts and I'd like you can explain because things don't work in that way.

"I just can't show up one day and shock everyone." Do you really think the world turn around you?

" I am not wired for it"

Who is?

"Some people at work would accept the change and others would not."
So no everybody turns around you.

"That is true for everyone, everywhere. I know that you are all familiar with the challenges.
I don't have that many of you do is the courage to follow this path under the current circumstances."

It's not about courage but about who we're, I couldn't keep lying to myself and of course to the rest. Many don't see that. A lot of people see on a trans out of the closet an honest person that decide to stop lying to the world.

" I cannot take the spotlight that would come with going from, Robin-all-guy, to Robin-a-woman all in one day. It would be like one day."

I think many will agree with me. That's 100% not true, there's not such, you don't need to do such thing. Things don't need to be done in "one day.

I don't want to be cruel but just face you with other reality you may be didn't see.

I wish you the best but that doesn't go in the road you did chose.

Mho.

Devi San Martin

Devi,

Your post is incredibly cruel and I'm shocked you posted something like this. No, everyone's world does not revolve around me but I'm obviously at the center of me. I am me. I'm also incredibly shy. Getting attention at all is something I avoid. I even managed to skip a couple of my promotions in the Army. I just don't like to be the focus of things. If no one saw me for a year and I showed up with the changes, they would be noticed and gossiped about. I have every right to live my life as I choose without your ridicule.

No, my post was not harmful. People here do sometimes stop transitioning. I've described for them what happened to me when I did. Funny thing is, I'm considering restarting because we will be going back to work soon and they will go along as I change. There is no manual for transition. Everyone does it differently and at different paces. Allow me to live my life please. I described what happened when I stopped HRT. It is what happened. It could be helpful to other women. If this topic isn't interesting to you, don't read it.

Robin

- - - Updated - - -

- - - Updated - - -

Sarah,

Thank you for your post. I agree that growing up when I did frames the way I approach myself as a transwoman. I did grow up with bigoted parents in a bigoted society. As a teen in the 1970's, I can still recall the terms my father used to describe trans women. I won't repeat them, they don't deserve air. This was when Renee Richards was in the news and I heard it all the time. Of course I knew they were talking about me. I've known I was born in the wrong body since I had a sense of self. While transwomen face physical risks now, then was far worse. I don't know how they had the courage to do it.

The only way to get by then was to deny yourself and learn what was expected of you as your at-birth gender and act like it is all a play, you are not you, you are the character you are playing every day. So, yes, I react to myself with some form of self-loathing. I wish I wasn't trans. I wish I could happily go on with the act. I don't know that I can. While I was transitioning, when I had the smooth skin, my breasts were growing, and the affects mentally and emotionally, that was the best I've ever felt internally.

Thank you again.

Robin

[Jazzy Jaz]

Though I don?t have any answers for you I sincerely hope things workout for you in the best possible way, whatever that might be.

[sarahcsc]

Devi,

Sarah,

Thank you for your post. I agree that growing up when I did frames the way I approach myself as a transwoman. I did grow up with bigoted parents in a bigoted society. As a teen in the 1970's, I can still recall the terms my father used to describe trans women. I won't repeat them, they don't deserve air. This was when Renee Richards was in the news and I heard it all the time. Of course I knew they were talking about me. I've known I was born in the wrong body since I had a sense of self. While transwomen face physical risks now, then was far worse. I don't know how they had the courage to do it.

The only way to get by then was to deny yourself and learn what was expected of you as your at-birth gender and act like it is all a play, you are not you, you are the character you are playing every day. So, yes, I react to myself with some form of self-loathing. I wish I wasn't trans. I wish I could happily go on with the act. I don't know that I can. While I was transitioning, when I had the smooth skin, my breasts were growing, and the affects mentally and emotionally, that was the best I've ever felt internally.

Thank you again.

Robin

Dear Robin,

Oh... it is heartbreaking to hear you say that about yourself. I can't speak for everybody here but I am rooting for you! I said before that you must first believe that you are deserving of love before you are ready to accept it. Most people need occasional reminders that they are deserving, but for some, they need a constant infusion of it every day. To borrow a phrase from Darth Vader, "the self-loathing is strong with this one".

Robin, nobody here can or should attempt to convince you to detransition or stay the course. But why share your story of self-loathing with us? Why share it if you weren't secretly hoping to be challenged, to be proven wrong, or to be shown love and compassion?

You said in your OP that you wanted to share your detransition story so that it may help others who are considering it. That is noble. But you immediately undermine your goals by saying you're not happy about it and that you're filled with regret and self-loathing. You have to forgive some of us here who became annoyed at you because you are essentially trying to teach us how not to be happy!

I see through you, Robin. I don't know how to show love on this forum but I'll try. Someone here once did it for me and it meant a great deal and that's why I keep coming back to return the favour. One day it'll be your turn to do the same as well.

:lovestruck: (Boink..! Is that good enough?)

Your internal transphobe is no match for my emoji! Come over to the light side! Lol.

Take care, Robin.

S

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I grew up in the 70s as well... I heard the same thing from not just my dad but pretty much everybody...

Worse? I said them too. I had repressed the whole thing in a very powerful way ... I'd explode for moments of GD and expression through dressing in my moms or sisters stuff... some nights it was so bad that i snuck around at 230 am and put on a jeans skirt i stole from the mall and hid in the garage...i'd put it on and walk around the neighboorhood... and over the years i did other crazy things... And all that time once i got the GD away from me, it was like I couldnt see myself.. I didn't think about it until I thought about it...

It was horrible but I didnt know.. In the 70s Sarah we were taught that trans people were sex workers.. only passable effeminte young "men" could be trans and it was even a thing that pretty gay men would live as women almost like beards for some of the older guys... It was illicit and dirty and mysterious at least to me...

OVer the years it was just a hopeless feeling that I coped with.. marraige to a wonderful woman...2 kids... a very successful business career later it all kind of blew up in my 40s

i spent years trying to avoid it.. divorce came and i found myself depressed and empty... I hit the wall and I transitioned..

I must admit looking back once I decided, I never ever ever reconsidered or wondered... it felt like my survival instinct....
I can recall when I decided almost perfectly because over the course of a couple weeks I had wild physical symptoms of depression and sleep deprivation... i did insane self destructive things. ... I could go on... but once i started HRT, the skies cleared and my pragamatic business side got to "Work"... and that was that...

I share all this as just my story, and I've shared parts of it many times. It's the way it went for me. It took a massive loss of function for me to go forward.. I was totally beaten down and this was how i fought back..

For Robin I can imagine she may reach that point, but I have no way to know.. I can share that its almost impossible to "feel better" around GD without expression your gender and it was very common in my days to see folks stop/start/stop etc/// some for many years, and i know lots of people who took HRT and are doing great, and even one that had FFS!!!! lives as a guy at work but otherwise as herself... Maybe even Robin you are going down the rabbit hole of negative self feelings because you are more on the gender spectrum?? I know folks that are like that....

Anyway. you hang in there... keep being willing to communicate... and see what happens..

[Robin-in-TX]

Hello everyone,

This is my last update to the thread. We are returning to work and I am returning to transitioning. I restart HRT in a few days. Again, the purpose of this post at all was to describe the physical effects of ceasing HRT after 9 months of hormones, I was on hormones from the beginning of October 2019 to the end of June 2020.

I took pictures when I started hormones to track progress. I'm comparing my current physical appearance to the pictures I took at the very start of transition.

Body Hair: The hair on my torso came back much thinner and more fuzzy than in the past. It is far thinner on my stomach than it was. There is definitely less of it. The hair on my chest is lighter and thinner as well. I do note that some of it has turned more white/gray than it was 19 months ago when I first shaved it off. I am turning 59 in 10 days, so, having it turn white/gray is not unexpected. There is far less hair on my back, I don't know why that didn't really come back but it didn't. The hair on my legs is really patchy, thin and light in color. It was pretty black at the start. There are spots that are thicker than others.

Facial hair: I never had thick facial hair. I never really had 5 pm shadow, it was more of a 10 pm shadow. I've never had a mustache or beard. It is a little darker but not that bad. Again, this is consistent with my genetics. I just never had a lot of beard.

Breasts: Mine were really growing and they are still there. You don't lose them once you have them. Keep that in mind if you start HRT, no two people are the same, some get more, some get less but whatever you get, you have forever baring surgery. They don't feel the same. They were growing and felt swollen and were sore. All those things went away. I wish I had tracked that to know how long it took. It wasn't immediate.

I don't know exactly why I didn't revert to my previous body and hair, but my guess is that the spiro and estrogen had a lasting effect on my ability to generate testosterone. Sure, I'm still producing it but not at the level it was when I started HRT. For those considering HRT, it will affect your genitals.

Again, this is just my experience stopping HRT. I post it on the chance that someone may be considering stopping and are wondering what the physical effects might be. I'm looking forward to continuing on the transition path and wish you all the best.

Robin

[Devi SM]

From my viewpoint it was never a "detransitioning" thread. What you intended as to talk about the side effects of stop hrt.

[Robin-in-TX]

I won't disagree with you Devi. But six months ago when I started this thread, I did not know how anything would turn out. It is a thread on what happens when you stop HRT.

Robin

[fly2188]

Facial hair: I never had thick facial hair. I never really had 5 pm shadow, it was more of a 10 pm shadow. I've never had a mustache or beard. It is a little darker but not that bad. Again, this is consistent with my genetics. I just never had a lot of beard.


This makes me so jealous. I have a 9am shadow/ it never goes away.



Breasts: Mine were really growing and they are still there. You don't lose them once you have them. Keep that in mind if you start HRT, no two people are the same, some get more, some get less but whatever you get, you have forever baring surgery. They don't feel the same. They were growing and felt swollen and were sore. All those things went away. I wish I had tracked that to know how long it took. It wasn't immediate.

Have you become more comfortable with your breasts and presentation at work? In your first post that was one of the main reasons you highlighted stopping the transition.

[Emptyeyes]

Consenting to this path is never easy for people.

[Genifer Teal]

I wouldn't say I detransitioned more like I stopped transitioning. I started Premarin and decided to stop after three months. I think that's what it was. Wasn't a full regiment but there was a doctor. I simply decided that while I wanted to be a woman I didn't need to be a woman. Since it's more of a choice and I knew both transitioning and not transitioning would be difficult I just decided that sort of being in the middle was working so it was the safer course of action I guess? To sum it up my fear was pretty much winding up exactly as I am stuck in the middle. But slightly on the other side of the spectrum. The only lasting effect is my nipples doubled in size but the lump starting underneath them went away. So really there isn't any lasting difference not that I would mind. This was almost 20 years ago. And here I am closer than ever to doing it again wondering why I stopped. They say we only regret what we haven't done. Maybe I'll learn that firsthand.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Detransition can be harder than transition!!
Technically speaking you can't detransition until you've transitioned btw... that's kind of important..

The medical path for all of us is the same. And that includes a period of time when you are heading towards transition. I don't know its still called "real life test" but the entire point is to press that button and start moving in that direction.
Transition is when you've fully changed your life to live in the other gender ... its not surgery...its not HRT.... its living. those other things are means to an end.

HRT is a great way to start. Socially dipping your toe in the water is another. Meeting other trans people and just hanging out with your female name and persona is another. What happens happens... Its not some magical thing.

So Gen is spot on. Go slow..pause..take a break while you wonder...... its all part of the drill..
For me personally I used my feelings as data... once i started HRT i never did actually look back even for a moment.. Even tho i actually fought the whole thing as it happened.. my inner brain was never ever looking back..

Robin's sharing is great for us (altho I don't call what she did detransitioning).

Their honesty is so helpful to us and for themselves..

[Jeri Ann]

Here is the Forum definition of transition copied from the sticky at the top of the page.

?The process an individual takes to change their assigned birth gender to that of the opposite. This process may include, Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT), Sexual Reassignment Surgery (SRS), Gender Confirmation Surgery (GCS), Name Change, Breast Augmentation (BA) and Living full time in the preferred gender in all environments.?

I had no input into this definition but it is pretty close to what I would put together with the exception of one word, “preferred”. I think that a better word is “necessary”.

Transitioning is difficult, costly and painful. My advice has always been, if it is not absolutely necessary, do not do it.