Coming out to women, but not to men?

[CharlotteCD]

I'm just wondering if anybody else is in the situation I've found myself, which is that I've now told four females that I am on the transgender spectrum, and with the exception of my wife they've been really supportive (not that my wife hasn't, she's just not able to understand it, but has accepted it is what it is).

When talking with one of them, she suggested that a male mutual friend of ours would be totally supportive and would be the type of person who wouldn't mind if I was dressed when we met.

I dismissed it. It's never happening. Decision made.

I've thought about this a lot since, and I wonder if it's just fragile masculinity in action where I simply cannot reveal a female side and a perceived weakness to another man.

Anybody else in this situation where they'd happily tell women, but not men?

[VS Fan]

100% agree .... not sure if it’s the presumed lack of negative physical response (a beat down) or if it’s simply that women (generalizing here) are more sensitive, accepting etc... but I’ve come out to maybe 6 or 7 women, and only one guy (who happens to be married to one of the women)

[Amelia_Rose]

I totally agree! I am much more comfortable with the thought of telling women, but men do give me pause. I feel like women are more likely to respond in a positive/neutral way, where as man are more likely to make the automatic assumption that you are trying to seduce them because, let's be honest, as men we do a lot more thinking with what's between our legs than what's in our skulls...

[Teresa]

Charlotte,
I think most of us feel safer breaking it to a woman first , we are possibly more aware of what reaction a man might give and we aren't looking for confrontation we are searching for accecptance .

Some of my coming out process happened here on the forum , looking back it was a sensible thing to do , like minded people could give you words of advice that had some value because they had lived it themselves .

We touch many nerves in a man that we don't in a woman , some are not of our doing and the reactions can be unpredictable , women may ask if you're gay men may not as sometimes there might be a hidden agenda .

Sorry to repeat myself but telling someone is very different to them seeing you , that's why for some time I used pictures , what people imagine you to look like and what you actually do can be a total surprise to them .

Support can vary , some are OK as long as it's not on their doorstep , some are great knowing but don't want to spend endless hours talking about it , it maybe a big thing to you but it's possibly not to them .

[Angela Marie]

Well, I have come out to a few women, including my wife; which I did on our second or third date. I agree that men may be more judgmental and I suspect it may be a bit of homophobia. As an aside when I go to my gym I always wear leggings; all types and colors and some clearly feminine. I have never had a negative comment from any men but I have had positive comments from women who told me how much they love them, where did I buy them, etc. Anecdotal to be sure but thats my opinion. I also have been mulling the possibility of wearing nail polish which should be interesting.

[GretchenM]

I agree, Charlotte. In general women are more accepting of diversity than men. The gender binary thinking has established males as dominant even though that is gratefully being attacked from all sides. Fragile masculinity may be a significant factor in this. That dominance is a difficult thing to maintain in these modern times and I think that has a lot to do with why masculine gender expression seems to have drifted more toward the macho version.

However it is important to also recognize that younger males (Millennials and younger) are not so much that way as the older males. It appears that men and women in the younger set view things in a more egalitarian fashion and, in my experience, there is a good deal more acceptance of diversity in gender expression and gender identity in the younger age group. So, perhaps the machoistic tendencies of older men is fading in the younger group. However traditional masculine values are still important to younger males; it is just that there seems to be a slow decline.

All that said, women in general seem to understand gender variance better than men. Differences in the mode of communication by males and females play a large part in that. Women tend to seek more information by asking questions while men have a higher tendency to make firm statements; these may be derived from the status in the gender binary which is still widely applied even though slipping in popularity mostly as a result of the actions of women to be less tolerant of such dominance. Whether that translates to a higher acceptance of a husband who has a more feminine identity is occurring is an interesting question. I suspect there is still a resistance in public, but perhaps a higher acceptance in private. Baby steps maybe. But in the older women tolerance with a husband is probably not shifting much as there are so many more traditional values held by older women than in the younger women. Tradition seems to be a strong element in older women with the younger women taking a bit more free form pathway.

[Krisi]

If you "come out" to anyone who doesn't have a good reason to keep your secret, you have come out to the world. It may take a while, but everyone is going to know about it.

[oh to be rachel]

Just throwing my experience.
Women will commiserate with the female experience.
Men will grab your boob.
It's sad.

[Jackie27]

I hove only came out to women and all have been very supportive. But I was selective to who I did come out to. There have been at least a half dozen and it feels so wonderful to do it and have their support. It does take a load off my shoulders to have a friend who does not judge me.

[Jennifer0874]

For me I know the women in my life are very accepting of LGBTQ+ issues. The first woman who knew was my mom who found some of her things in my room when I was in high school. She was a strong single woman who let me know it was okay. Because of issues with my father growing up, I truly don’t trust most men.

My closest friends are women and the strong emotional relationships we have led us all to have deep conversations with each other. We have opened up to each on such a deep level there are few secrets.

[Cheryl T]

It's a difficult thing to get past sometimes.
I think it's that we resist admitting that we are not as "male" as others since we have this distinctly feminine side to us and we feel that we will be seen almost as a lower class by other males.
With women we are expressing that femininity to others that have those same traits. I don't know ... maybe it's just easier to talk to others with whom we feel we have a shared experience to a degree.

It's funny because I've been struggling with something similar for a while now. My older cousin is gay and married to his partner. They know that we accept them and I would love to be able to come out to them, yet I'm afraid that I will be rejected. How weird is that...

[Jillian Faith]

Absolutely, I have only come out to women and feel more comfortable in discussing my cross dressing and need to feel pretty. The only males I have discussed my cross dressing with are either other CDs and 1 Drag Queen who worked the MAC counter at our local Macy's. All of my male friends would be appalled that I cross dress and would assume I do because I'm a closet gay and want to have sex with men.

[NancySue]

I?ve only told woman..my wife. There?s no way I?d ever tell any of my men friends, especially in our conservative town. One of my golfing buddies wore a pink golf shirt at a golf outing last summer. He got teased the whole day. Another friend, after a few beers, told us he wears pantyhose when he goes hunting to keep his legs warm, at his wife?s suggestion. The message is loud and clear. 🤫

[Tricia Lee]

I've thought about this a lot since, and I wonder if it's just fragile masculinity in action where I simply cannot reveal a female side and a perceived weakness to another man.

Anybody else in this situation where they'd happily tell women, but not men?

Yes, for sure. Me included, and probably the vast majority of people on here.

I think some guys would be OK with it for the most part. But I have lots of male activities (sports and things) that I do with different people, and I absolutely believe that if this was known it would affect those activities. I don't want the potential impact.

I'm not overly concerned about any kind of physical response. It just seems like unnecessary drama to go around telling people who aren't impacted by my dressing up, or unlikely to be the slightest bit interested in it, let alone be really freaked out by it.

[Robertacd]

I wonder if it's just fragile masculinity in action where I simply cannot reveal a female side and a perceived weakness to another man.


I believe you are correct.

I see it often here, CD's will go out of their way to make sure everyone knows they are "not gay". I hang out with a group of CD's and TG's on Zoom every Friday night. During the night at least one of the CD's has to show everyone some of their porn collection, I guess to make sure we all know they are still attracted to GG's.

So don't feel bad as you become more comfortable with yourself you will find it easier to come out.

[Michelle8]

It is easier to come out to women.I have 4 women in my neighborhood who know me as Michelle.Three of their husband know I crossdress but i don't really associate with them
much.It's just easier with other women.The guys don't hassle me or anything.It's actually kind of nice to have some girl friends.

[docrobbysherry]

Women r rarely as threatened by a man to woman trans as males tend to be. Especially American men. So insecure!:eek:

However Charlotte, u may have your own insecurities to deal with. Worrying men will think less of u for instance!?

There's a reason why so many here who tell others about their dressing add, "But I'm not gay!":doh:

[Asew]

I definitely felt more comfortable telling women over men. My original perception was that I feel more close to women than men so thought that is why. When telling a woman you are accepting femininity (positive) but when you tell a man you are rejecting masculinity (negative). So I also agree with the "fragile masculinity" comment earlier in the thread.

[AngelaYVR]

Was the suggestion to tell that guy a coded way of saying she knows he is also a club member?

[Stevie Allyn]

Angela, that thought had crossed my mind too.

[kayegirl]

Most of my friends are married people, and when coming out, it was to both partners at the same time. My feeling is that it is wrong to tell just the woman, and expect her to then not tell her hubby, or to hope that she might tell him for you.
And just in case you are wondering, only one coutlets reacted negatively, mainly the wife who could not handle the news. They are no longer on my Christmas card list!

[sometimes_miss]

I wouldn't say that I'd 'happily' tell women, but I won't tell a man (other than anonymously, as here). I've had mostly bad experiences with men in the past. The constant competitiveness, always who's higher in the pecking order, the dishonesty in so many things, being taken advantage of by many, and beaten by others.
Nope, I've learned the hard way that men aren't likely to be my friends.
Women? I've told a few. One was gay, and suggested several times that I 'try it', but she didn't push it. The other gay gal was fine with me being who I am, as I was with her; me deep in the closet, her married to her wife.

[Michellebej]

I think that coming out to women is both easier and safer.

I believe that we all know men who are very nice and kind.....and then when anything they perceive as "gay" enters their world they go completely bananas.

No one wants to come out to someone who just might punch them in the nose! I don't think that too common, but I also think that statistically it will happen to someone somewhere.

Like most, or all above, I first came out to women. The first man I came out to was my bff's hubby. He was supportive, in fact a tad bit too supportive. I later found out he had ulterior motives. The next men I came out to were the husbands of my gfs at a Halloween party. There were no bad reactions and the Earth, to my sheer shock, did not explode....

Even then a couple were shocked when they saw me at the Christmas party. I guess they thought Halloween was...Halloween. Even though I was very clear when asked the inevitable questions.

I do though have no desire to come out to my male friends from that part of my life. I think it is an issue of possible ridicule and/or nonacceptance

[DianeT]

I don't know if women are really more accepting, it's possible. But homosexuality and crossdressing are two topics questioning the male identity which may be bothering some men and make them uneasy or downright hostile. It kind of removes the carpet from under their feet in the areas of virility, social role, etc. I don't see that happening with women because they are not the primary subject as females and for this reason would less fear rejection from them.

[TheHiddenMe]

There are two categories of disclosures.

Of those I knew, they were all women that I dated (give or take four).

There were people I didn't know; a guy at Sephora (making an appointment for a makeover), an SA at Nordstrom (to arrange trying on clothes after the Sephora makeover), a nail tech (who was great), another nail tech (who became my friend Michelle), a SA at a Dangerfield in Melbourne, a SA at a Ted Baker store in Las Vegas.

So I haven't disclosed to anyone who didn't have a need to know. They were all female because I date females.

The others were transactional, so male or female didn't really matter.

But on the whole, I would prefer to disclose to women, because they are more accepting, IMO.

[Karren H]

Never really felt the need to come out to anyone, male or female. The only person I'm out to (accidentally) was my wife and that didn't fare too well... A few local TG folk in the area know but i don't know whether to count them as male or female? Any who... what was the question again?

[April Rose]

I told several male friends back in the early seventies. They didn't really understand it, but they didn't give me a hard time about it. I've lost touch with a few of them, others are still my friends to this day. I spoke to two of them on the phone during the past month. I prefer to hang out with people,who are intelligent, sensitive and trustworthy. I won't waste my time on a Macho j@ck@ss.

If you tell your secret to a married woman, it is unreasonable to expect she won't share it with her husband.

[Jean 103]

There was a male friend that I didn't want to lose when I was coming out. I recruited his wife to help, as it turned out my fears were unfounded. We are still very good friends.

Basically women are about feelings and men aren't.

What women hear when you come out to them, is you want to join their team, so of course they're all yay.

While your wife picked someone from the other team as a partner, you see the difference.

Maybe I should point out that I'm out , live as Jean, and haven't lost any friends and have gained many.

My wife is another story.

[Kandi Robbins]

I think most would agree, we act differently when presenting as female than when doing so as a male. Not everyone, but most.

That said, I would tell anyone with whom I am interacting with when dressed, male or female. As Kandi, I have made plenty of friends of both genders. But since I would never wish to interact with my male friends and our children when dressed, I see no need. Since I am not transitioning, I see no reason to tell someone about this part of me. Kandi gets her time out often enough that it's not a problem for me. While doing so may go well, it would change those existing relationship somehow, the downside risk too great as I don't really see any significant upside.

[Rogina B]

So don't feel bad as you become more comfortable with yourself you will find it easier to come out.

Like Roberta,I will say it is all about self acceptance.Accepting you are queer to many. You will gain strength by believing in yourself and realizing that you are an equal human to any you wish to reveal your secret to. But FIRST,figure out your narrative ! What are you "coming out" as ? How do you wish for your life to change by this reveal ? From my 15 years of being out and open I can tell you that you may get the cold shoulder from some people and this may initially bother you. Coming out is a test of them, not you ! But get your truth straight in order to make it a fair test !

[caitlyn louisa]

I have come out to lots of women but have never ever admitted to a man that I'm a crossdresser. It's easier and more fun. You can talk about lipstick and shoes!

[Stephanie47]

One of the things I have learned during my seven decades on this planet is people reveal exactly how they feel when you're perceived to NOT be in a group. If you want to really know how someone thinks about cross dressers, then listen to them when you're not perceived to be a cross dresser. Many people tend to be politically correct. Others will get in your face. I've heard women completely fillet a cross dresser, and, pity his wife for being married to him. Are women treating you as a curiosity? Or, are they asking you to come over for dinner in your prettiest dress? I think there is a lot of NIMBY. Women tend to be a little more hands on in their interactions; a hug or embrace. In our society men do not hug or touch each other with some sports related exceptions. I will agree the younger generations tend to be more accepting of diversity. But, does that translate to inclusion within a group? With the increasingly polarization in our society on many issues I think there are more people "coming out of the closet," and sometimes not in a very accepting way. When I look around I still see interactions fitting into "birds of a feather flock together."

If I cannot gain acceptance from my wife I really do not expect much acceptance by anyone else other than the "curiosity" stage.

[Ressie]

I've come out to many men - that also cross dress :battingeyelashes: but it's kept a secret in a vault for the rest of them.

[Robertacd]

If I cannot gain acceptance from my wife I really do not expect much acceptance by anyone else other than the "curiosity" stage.

An excepting spouse/SO is hard to find but don't judge the world by the actions of a single person.

[Alice Torn]

I have only come out to three men. But to a number of women. I see no need to tell anymore people now. One person spread it to many many people who know me, and i have lost many friends over it.

[Brianne_bc]

Yes. Pretty much. I have a few close female friends that know about Bree. I wont even buy shoes from a male clerk in a shoe store.

[Deborah G]

Women are more understanding, typically, than men. Men generally go into a situation with preconceved ideas, where women will listen first and then weigh in or give support. I can discuss personal things alot easier with women, than I can with a man.

[Rogina B]

The responses in this post show the big difference between revealing that you are a crossdresser versus stating that you are transgender. There is a difference.

[JeanTG]

I must know how to pick my friends because when I came out as transgendered, both my male friends and female friends have been supportive.

[lingerieLiz]

I've had both men and women know I cross dress. I think a lot of men have trouble with being around one of us because they don't know how to handle being a friend and others finding out will cause people to assume they are gay.

[Alexis00]

No single guys. Two or three husbands of supportive friends. They kind of stay out of it.

[Helena]

When I came out at work I was more comfortable telling the women in our team first, though it was still heart stopping saying the words to the first few. They seemed happy for me. All the men were fine but it was more in "whatever makes you happy" category.

I got down to the last man, who I was dreading telling so kept putting it off. It reached a point where others would ask if I had told him yet each time I came back to the office. Turned out he was great about it.

The other big surprise was my boss, we didn't get on too well but he was brilliant both professionally & personally.

[Rogina B]

All the men were fine but it was more in "whatever makes you happy" category.

I got down to the last man, who I was dreading telling so kept putting it off. It reached a point where others would ask if I had told him yet each time I came back to the office. Turned out he was great about it.


As people in transition,we TELL others. We do not ASK them to be cool with a "unique hobby". Big difference and I am not sure if many reponders realize that. You told them Helena...You didn't need their approval to be yourself. As far as others go,often we will encounter people whom you think are "cool" but really aren't..Hence the distancing afterwards. And conversely,[as Helena experienced] some that you don't expect become your best allies and ambassadors !

[vanphair]

At this point I've "come out" to a fairly equal number of men and women. In every case, people have been supportive and understanding. Perhaps that's a self-selection bias, as i have been careful to only tell people I consider friends and have reasonable confidence that they will at the very least be outwardly supportive.

It's an interesting dynamic in my mind because the women I've told are not just supportive, but "proud of" or "happy for" me for being honest about who I am and what my identity is (to the extent I can explain it, which is difficult). They also enjoy that they can talk fashion with me, which is enjoyable because - duh - I have a sharp eye for women's fashion! I obviously skirt around the underdressing preferences (no pun intended) as I don't want them to assume that this is "only" a fetish, but I will make it clear - albeit in an "appropriate" manner, that underdressing is a core part of this for me.

Men's responses are fascinating in that the general response is "Really? Okay. Cool, whatever. Everyone has their thing." It probably makes a difference in my case that I'm not trying to pass, I just really enjoy certain aspects of women's fashion and the feminine parts of my identity that wearing it brings forward. Or not, it's hard to tell.

All I can tell you is that I have not yet had a bad experience confiding in people outside of my family unit.

Of course inside my family unit is a totally different situation. We are still coming to grips with it, which brings me to my main point - I think women are very comfortable with crossdressing/gender fluidity/trans-ness whatever you want to call when it isn't their spouse who is doing it. Or sometimes even their child. From what I've read here and what I have witnessed/experienced personally, women react VERY differently when they learn it is their husband. Considering all you see here about DADT marriages and the like, it seems like the support offered by women extends only so far. I don't necessarily mean that as a negative comment, I just have personally noticed that relatively bright line in terms of how far the support goes.

My two cents.

[Robertacd]

The responses in this post show the big difference between revealing that you are a crossdresser versus stating that you are transgender. There is a difference.

You are correct.

TG coming out: "This is who I am".
CD coming out: "This is a... um... uh... hobby?...".

I honestly have to say with the exception of spouses, I don't fully understand the CD's need to come out as much as TG people.

[AngelaYVR]

The ability to understand things that are outside of your own immediate sphere of well-being is a hallmark of advanced emotional intelligence. Some people here seem to think that if something does not apply to them then it falls under the domain of the lesser beings.

[Rogina B]

Angela,Not really sure of your complaint. Can you explain???

[AngelaYVR]

Rogina, we are not allowed to quote the last post so I was just responding to the reply right before mine.

[Robertacd]

Some people here seem to think that if something does not apply to them then it falls under the domain of the lesser beings.

Oh, that was directed towards me... :Angry3:

Well honey since I personally have done both (came out as a CD >20 years ago and came out as TG 2 years ago) I think I am qualified to comment on both.

I tell you what, coming out as TG was a lot easier.

[AngelaYVR]

Roberta darling, you are more than entitled to your opinion. It does not, however, automatically trump and nullify the experiences of others. I learned this over the last 48 years of living.

Want more? For many of people here, finally accepting yourself is a euphoric occasion. It is only natural (not always well advised but certainly understandable) to want to share it with others. I know I felt like I wanted to. And if you want separate cross dressing into a hobby (no elitism here!) then I have trouble understanding why you bother to still hang around and comment on nearly every single post in this forum. Honey.

[Robertacd]

Um.. okay I was simply recounting how I felt trying to come out as a Crossdresser compared to coming out as Transgender.

I understand how hard it is to try to explain why you like dressing up like a woman when you swear you are not attracted to men and that you are not Transgender, without it sounding like a creepy fetish. (I am not sure if I even managed to accomplish that) And lets be honest, that is how most people see CD'ing.

Frankly I gained nothing out of telling anyone besides my wife. As the few GG's I came out to basically said "What you and your wife do in the bedroom is your business..." and one for sure just kind of stopped talking to me after that.

I have to add that coming out as Transgender was a lot easier mainly because people understand what being TG means.

[Rogina B]

I can play the "what's it to you?" role as easy as most.But,as a out transgender now of 15 years,I would never have shared my crossdressing intentionally. It is just a different thing....

[jenabrooks]

Robertacd, Was your CD for 20 years a stepping stone make it easer to Trans for the last 2 years?

[Robertacd]

Well it probably made it easier for my wife as she had 20 years of "My Husband wears my dresses" before I came to terms with being TG and came out to her. I suppose it made it easier for me too since I was not dropping such a huge bomb on my wife.

[ellbee]

What women hear when you come out to them, is you want to join their team, so of course they're all yay.


This is how I see & even experience it, as well.


Anyway, I pose this inverse (and perhaps rhetorical) question, to any & all...

If a *F2M* were to come out, who do you think would welcome them more -- GG's, or males? :thinking:

[Teresa]

Ellbee,
I wonder if they get it tougher than we do ?The problem is to us wanting to be a man is possibly illogical but wanting to be a woman makes perfect sense , well at least to me it does .

On the whole women do have the greater choice of presention , a woman can be butch without being gay but to a M/F the usual question is are you gay ?

Consider the two conversations , a F/M , " I like wearing male clothes !" Reply , " I'm OK with that .
M/F , " I like wearing women's clothes !" , Reply , " What are you , some kind of weirdo or pervert !" Men still have that straightjacket to wear .

Roberta,
You make a good point about declaring you are TG being easier and possibly more plausible than telling people you are a CDer . Maybe it's the sexual connotation with CDing that TGs don't usually get .

[Jean 103]

GGs, but not the same.

From the few I know from group and one that came up to me in the bar, as well as a couple others I've met.

I will never forget the poor girl that came up to me in the bar. She had walked in with a few friends(GGs). When she saw me , she walked up and just started talking. She was very excited to see me. She told me her friends did not want her to transition. FTM. I could tell they did not want her talking to me. I simply just listened, as that was all she was asking for.

I used female pronouns as this is how the person was representing.

The ones I know in group are some of my most favorite people.

[WomanAtHeart4]

Charlotte, good thread. I realize I have never disclosed anything to a male - though I have 100% discussed me being a CD to women stranger and want to discuss with other women. Each woman I have approached has been gracious, helpful, understanding, and eager to help me understand "being a women". its surprising to see how quickly they go into "BFF" mode and give me advice about how to shave your legs, paint nails, shape figure, attire, breasts, feeling feminine, as well as sex with men, etc. I realize now I avoid contact with males in any form of CD mode. It could be my fragility as a CD- I just don't know how insightful/accepting/productive an engagement with a male friend would (unless the friend was really close) be but my experience approaching women has been a great accepting experience - one I now strategically seek. It would be a unique man who I approached. Love, Stephanie

[monika]

I am the same way!
Love telling and sharing it with women.
But never tell any male friends.
Even if some of them know now😊

[nancy58]

The first person I came out to was a male therapist whom I knew to be gay. I trusted him from prior marital counseling, and I was certain he wouldn't judge me. He didn't. Apart from him, the other people I've come out to (except in the TG support group I was a member of) have been women -- my wife and my regular therapist. The only heterosexual male I've been tempted to come out to is a very good friend going back 40 years. But I fear the judgment of males, perhaps because in my upbringing I learned that a man must be manly. I still wrestle with self judgment.

[Leelou]

This is a timely thread for me. I've recently "came out" to my friend at work. He came over unexpectedly and saw some of my women's clothes. He didn't say anything. If he would have said "What's up with the heels?", we would have had the talk. But he didn't.

Now our group of friends at work know, but it's DADT. I'll give bonus points to the first one that has the nerve to talk to me about it.

My first experience with this was when I came out to my first wife. I didn't try to swear her to secrecy, so her girlfriends knew. So our whole social group knew, but the guys just didn't want to talk about it. lol. The women loved me, because as someone alluded to, I was out about it with my wife.