Question for DADT Members

[CharlotteCD]

If your non-accepting SO comes home, and you're in makeup and full dress, with no time to get changed, what do you do?

My wife has accepted that this is a part of me, but doesn't ever want to see me, which is fair enough - it's an image she'll never get our of her head.

It's gotten me thinking that should she return home unexpectedly for some reason, I should have some kind of plan that allows for me to respect her wishes of not seeing me.

My thoughts have been that I should have a change of clothes ready in the bathroom, along with makeup remover kit. If she returns home, I can then return to make mode for her.

(Oh for an accepting wife!)

Edit:

Whilst communication has improved, it's still a no-go topic for explicit discussion. She has commented about have I had a good time to myself etc, where the insinuation is that she assumes I have dressed.

She was texting me to say she was coming home, but this has started to dry up so I just want to be prepared so as to respect that she is being tolerant to a minor degree - we're still together, I still have my clothes, and we don't argue about it!

[JennniferMcC]

Hi Charlotte, just my two cents. She knows what you're doing. It seems it should be incumbent on her to give you ample warning if SHE doesn't want to see you. Fair is fair.

[Pumped]

I agree! If she doesn't want to see you dressed, she had better call first.

More communication is required!

[Karren H]

One... In 4 decades, that has never happened.... I plan really really well... Two... since retirement and with the pandemic... she never leaves the house, or hardly ever ... sigh....

[Stephanie47]

I do concur if your wife does not want to walk in on you en femme, then she should be texting you to give you a heads up. My wife does not drive because of a visual impairment. I may drop her off at the other end of our small city and she'll spend the day shopping. When she gets to a bus transit center she usually calls me to let me know which bus she will be on. Sometimes it is because she has bought too much stuff and needs a ride from the bus stop. Other times I am assuming she is giving me that heads up. Pre-covid and pre-retirement I almost never used that time for en femme time as she would usually go to work for an entire seven hour day. I call those short periods of time as "grabbing crumbs of time." To me it's not worth the effort. I may use that time to wash some lingerie, ironing, etc, but not femme time.

If you're going to be totally en femme and not "get caught" I would recommend foregoing the nail polish. Nail polish remover and makeup leave a tell tale odor and take too much time to apply and remove. But, if you must, then expect some ribbing from her. I would recommend, if you must been femme, pack away all clothes that you're not wearing so there is minimal clothing to "hide" from her view. Unless my wife was away overnight visiting friends or relatively I always packed away whatever I was not wearing.

In my situation I have to chuckle because 90% of the time my wife thinks I may be cross dressing I am not. The closest I would ever run into the chance of being partially en femme is at night. As we sleep apart for medical reasons I sleep in a floor length nylon gown and a nylon panty. It is probable at some time she'll need to awaken me. The last time that happened was when she was having an allergic reaction to something she ate. But, I was not sleeping in a nightgown. If it happens, it happens.

[Geena75]

A 'heads up' would be very good, but things do happen. Suppose she gets home early and forgot to call? Suppose she has to stop by the house to pick up something, then leave right away. You are on the right track with a 'safe room,' with the ability to change back unnoticed. I think it would be only fair that, if is a quick stop, she announce it as such.

Although I am in a totally hidden situation, the effect is similar. I always have an 'escape' plan, for how to change back undetected -- even more so now for me. I can say from experience that make up and such should be packed up rather than leave tell tale signs out. The bathroom is a good 'go to' space as it allows you to remove make up. When it was just a matter of changing clothes I would even plan on the bedroom. In my personal situation, no warnings or announcements would be expected what so ever.

In your case, you might try to breach the subject enough to establish cooperative procedures to keep both of you from aggravation.

[Wen4cd]

Last time I needed to go into the house where they were doing whatever (I was going out for the evening, and needed my bag which was in the house, and I was in my 'studio' building.) I just texted my daughter a heads-up that I was about to be in the house all dressed, and that was it.

[char GG]

If the situation is DADT, then I am assuming your wife knows; but doesn't want to see. I understand that you would like a "courtesy call" if she is coming home but is that a realistic expectation? After all, she lives there too. Should she assume that every time she leaves the house, you are going to dress, so it necessitates a call from her to come back to her "own house". Do you also call to warn her that you are coming back to your own house? It actually sounds exhausting. Maybe the two of you should agree on a safe place within the house so that she is free to come and go but you can have your space also.

Full disclosure would be ideal but I understand that it doesn't always work that way.

[candykowal]

I have a wife that has never seen Candice in person.
I do not believe she knows I present as female in public and on the net.
She is seven years younger and still is working and provides during this time I am semi-retired.
When I dress at home during working hours, I only have a grab-n-go bag with that days girly things in it and it is kept and accessed in my closet when not concealed in a HVAC duct in the false ceiling of my home office.

I keep a guy outfit to grab next to the bathroom in case I hear the auto lock deadbolt being accessed or hearing the loud exhaust of her car in the driveway.
I run into the bathroom with my guy stuff and change, hiding my girl things in the back of the vanity.
I had to do it once. The one other time she came home early, I was in husband mode anyway.

I also don't get girly unless I am sure she has a set time to be home.
I don't bring up concerns about her independence, so she seems to be forthcoming with details or usually calls when she is out, asking if she needs to stop for anything on the way home.
I do not go out in public unless my wife goes out of town or the window is great enough that I feel comfortable doing so.

[CharlotteCD]

I don't agree with the sentiment that "if she doesn't want to see Charlotte then she should warn me she's coming home".

She didn't sign up to this. She accepts me, and that this is part of me that I can't help, and that's hell of a lot more than some women are willing to accept.

I have brought something into her life that she can't get her head around, and I am the one who his this from her whilst we bought a house and got married.

The weight of expectation and burden should not be placed on her that every time she wants to go out and have a nice time, she needs to fret about warning that she's returning to her HOME, the place she should feel most comfortable, most relaxed, totally safe.

If she has to remember to warn me every time then I'm not making her home a pleasant place to return to - it'll be a place she approaches with a stressed feeling inside.

[CarlaWestin]

... since retirement and with the pandemic... she never leaves the house, or hardly ever ... sigh....

I feel ya. I haven't had a good chance to go out in the wild as an unruly tart since last March.

Wife and I give each other the respect of privacy and fair warning. DADT is pretty much carved in stone although I
still hold out hope that she might consider having a good housekeeper as a trade off.
Eh, probably not.

[DianeT]

Charlotte I normally dress when my wife is there and we split the apartment in two so she doesn't see me. If I dress when she goes out for an evening, we have an agreement where I can trace her with her mobile phone. I check her position from time to time, and make sure I'm done with no traces left when she's back, so she doesn't have to stress about it (she already stresses enough about it without this additional weight of risking to see me).

[CharlotteCD]

Again though Diane, that's severely imposing on my wifes freedom. To be tracking her movement is, for me, not a relationship. To be restricting her movement within the house is not a relationship.

As I said before, she didn't sign up to this. I hid it from her, and she should not have any restrictions placed on her because of my deceit. She quite likely wouldn't have bought a house with me or gotten married if she had known.

[kayegirl]

Charlotte, I agree with you that your wife should not have to warn you when she is coming home.
My wife is fully aware of my dressing, and I do not need to hide anything away, BUT, that does not mean that she wants to see Kaye, quite the opposite. Normally when she has been out for any time more than 1 hour, she will call to let me know that she will be home soon, but for those occasions that she might forget we have devised our *Skirt Alert* system. Whenever I am going to dress I hang a coloured glass ornament behind the window panel in the door. If she sees the ornament, she will either call on her phone, or shout from the hallway, and we can avoid visual contact.

[Miel GG]

Hi Charlotte, as a GG I appreciate a lot that you really want to take care of your wife with regard for CDing.

If I understand you right, you and your wife agreed to ensure she will not see you dressed. If it is the case, I think you miss the main point : you are trying to find a solution on your own without asking her thoughts about this ! As the other half of your couple she deserves to be consulted. She probably will propose some options you never thought of or simply discarded because you are not in her head.

As my hubby doesn't need to show him dressed and as I doesn't want to see him dressed, we find TOGETHER the terms of our agreement. By example, he proposed to go to the hotel in order to dress but I think it was not fair to compelled him to go away because our home is his/her home too. So we agreed on splitting our home from time to time to let him dressed quietly.

You never know how will react your wife so please talk to her.

[DianeT]

Again though Diane, that's severely imposing on my wifes freedom. To be tracking her movement is, for me, not a relationship. To be restricting her movement within the house is not a relationship.

Nothing is imposed. All has been discussed with my wife leading the way. That makes all the difference.
As for tracking, wow. People see it in such a negative way (unless it's their children they're tracking). As a lifetime couple, we like to see each other's location (since the devices make it possible). We never had anything to hide (at least not location-wise) from each other and on the contrary we see it as an additional safety to know that if one of us has an accident or anything alike we will be able to locate our SO and assist. It's also useful for trivial little things like meeting my wife when I know she's about to come back from a grocery store and can check her approach so I can shorten a telework meeting and help her with the bags. Despite my lying about cding, for all the rest we are a couple with a very high level of trust (hence the damage of my late coming out) and absolutely don't see the location tracking as spying, but as an act of loving care. I am not saying that people need to use it, to each her/his own, but at least know that it's not necessarily a devilish scheme to do so.

And just to stress it once more: the main point here is Trust. My wife can locate me anytime, but I know she will only do it when it's necessary or beneficial to me. And she knows I will do the same for her. Thanks to that trust, nobody feels spied, we just feel safe.

[Teresa]

Charlotte,
The fear of being caught out is a nighmare for some members . While it's no longer a problem for me now I still recall the heart in my mouth and the mad dash upstairs . I very rarely did makeup , as removing the clothes was bad eneough but I did get caught out on more than one occasion , I stood at the bottom of the stairs when she walked in , she did a U turn and went shopping for ten minutes .

I don't thinks it's possible to have a definite plan , if you're caught it's too late but then don't most of us still push our luck .

I do look back on all this and have to smile , it's really no big deal now , I found the more people that knew the more acceptable is became now it's the opposite way round , I really don't want to be caught dressed in male mode , it just doesn't feel right .

[sara66]

Charlotte, I am in the exact spot you are. My wife calls about 10-15 minutes before she gets home. The only time it was a problem I was out dressed and she got sick at work. I was close enough i could get home quickly, so she went and picked up some meds at the pharmacy. I barely was change when she got home.
Sara

[MonicaPVD]

If you have a non accepting SO, you probably should not be getting all glammed up at home. If you decide to go down that road, you should keep a pair of pants, a t-shirt and, whenever possible, a small travel pack of decent quality makeup remover wipes within arm's reach at all times. Not the dollar store ones! Happy adrenaline rush, ladies.

[Krisi]

If she knows that you dress and has accepted that but doesn't want to see it, she should be willing to warn you when she is coming home, either by telling you a time or calling early enough for you to change. It is she who doesn't want to see it, not you who doesn't want her to see it.

An option (a bit sneaky and you wouldn't want her to find out about it) is to use a tracking service on her phone or a GPS tracker on her vehicle.

[Star01]

My solution is that I only dress fully when she is gone overnight or when I can come up with a travel alibi such as a sporting event. We were shared owners of a family lake home that enabled us to stay for free but that was recently sold.

That approach was working well but every opportunity has fallen apart and the fog is at an all time high. I am in a very frustrating situation but I cannot trust what her reaction would be. Not only did she not want to see or know about me dressing but she made it clear that the subject is off limits and not open for further discussion.

[Sandi Beech]

Charlotte

It is interesting to note there are variations of DADT. Two common ones:

1. In my case, wife is aware I like to play in women?s clothing, as I have been caught before- but I am NOT allowed to own any girly items. Zippo.

2. In other cases, wives are aware, but do not want to see it or talk about it, yet still allow the hubby to own some level of stashed items. If caught, the items do not have to be tossed.


I fall into group 1, whereas it sounds like you are in group 2. If that is the case, and if she knows where your things are, it is pretty easy for her to examine the layout and tell if anything is disturbed so I certainly would not deny if she asked if you had been dressed.

I have had a lot of close calls. I am typically just trying on some items if she goes out. There will always be some unexpected trip ups from time to time. Like one time my wife drove off and forgot her wallet or something, and drove right back home to get it. So if you are doing this a lot, you will definitely have a few slip ups. In my case, I just have to stop for a good while so she cools off. I do not think she would ever leave me unless I pushed it in her face. For me at least, pushing in her face is riskier than keeping it from her. Sad but true. I know many people prefer the honesty theme and that is wonderful if it works. Some of us have failed miserably in trying that route. You just have to find your own balance.

Bottom line, you have to restrict your dressing to a degree if you want to minimize the number of times you get caught. Over decades, it can really add up.

Sandi

[Pumped]

I don't see the issue with your wife calling when she comes home. Which is worse, calling or seeing hubby in a dress.

I was in a DADT for a while. My wife would catch me once in a while. I told her if she doesn't want to see it call first, or when she gets home give me 15 minutes to get changed before coming to see me. We have a family room, bathroom and my office is in the lower level of our home and I typically dressed there. She would come home, holler, "Hi honey, I'm home!" and she would do whatever she needed to do while I changed. No muss, no fuss. She finally gave up and just accepted it. I remember her coming home one day and I was sitting in my office dressed. She hollered she was home and next thing I knew she was standing next to me. She looked me over, had a giggle over my outfit, nothing mean, I do wear some weird outfits sometimes, and said not to worry about.

It is your home too. If she knows you dress and doesn't want see it she should be cooperative too, unless she is really against it. In otherwords, is it DADT, or just don't?

[Star01]

Part of DADT is don?t ask. I think that any wife who rummages around looking for hidden clothing is not abiding by the don?t ask part. I have my clothes in a place where she could find the easily but then she would have to have that discussion she doesn?t want to have.

I was sole breadwinner for fifty years so I don?t feel like I?m seeking her permission to do anything. It is a personal choice, risk causing an uproar or continue to lay low. I could demand my rights tomorrow and spend a small fortune on female clothing but I hold back by my own choice.

This brings up and interesting debate. Does my fighting the urge to dress and deferring to her wishes help or hurt me? Would she insist on a divorce if I drew a line in the sand and demanded to dress and do as I like? Nobody reading my comments can know that but some of us take the risk and put their needs first. I don?t think either choice deserves a badge of honor as they both come with challenges.

[Lydianne]

An option (a bit sneaky and you wouldn't want her to find out about it) is to use a tracking service on her phone or a GPS tracker on her vehicle.

Uff! You know, one of the things I can't stand about employers is that they'll ask for someone smart, and then they'll try and pull a fast one over them. And then they'll get upset when that person kicks up a fuss about it :facepalm:.

- L.

[Geena75]

I think a definition of DADT is "she knows, but wants to pretend she doesn't know." Sort of a pretend tolerance, I guess.

[Territx]

Charlotte -- thanks for bringing this up, as I find myself in the same boat with you (probably a really big and/or crowded boat with everyone else that needs to be in it). I also share your thoughts and consideration for your wife's feelings, as I have said in other threads that this is my deal and not something she knew about (heck, when we got married, I did not know it was going to resurface again after being non-existent for more than 10 years) or signed on for.

I would just say you should do like the military, etc. and have a "Plan B" and probably a "Plan C". Good luck.

[CharlotteCD]

It sure is a big boat!

Very similar for me, where me my long absence from this forum also coincided with my lack of desire, and my dating beginning. I really felt like that was it, and I had grown out of it.

[Leslie Langford]

Charlotte, I can see from your above posts that you are still in the "guilt and shame" phase of your crossdressing journey, and have drank the Kool-Aid that posits that what we do is so "out there" and unacceptable that it bears not mentioning. Not only that, it must be kept a deep, dark secret so as not to impact the delicate sensibilities of others who might be freaked out by our proclivities. Kind of like the concept of "The love that dares not speak its name" as was once applied to homosexuality, although we now have full acceptance of that by society to the point where gay marriage is not only legal and accepted in many circles, it is even celebrated in some cases. But you are still young, grasshopper, and no doubt time and experience will temper your views in that regard. It certainly did for me.

DADT is a funny beast. I, too, once engaged in the same self-flagellation wherein I was wracked by the guilt and shame over what I had "imposed" upon my wife by bringing it into the marriage unbeknownst to her. In our case, she accidentally stumbled upon my crossdressing shortly after our first child was born when she came down to our recreation room long after she had supposedly gone to bed and found me trying on a newly-purchased pair of stilettos. She promptly fainted on the spot and...well, that set the tone...it was downhill from there on in, and we moved solidly into DADT territory afterwards. So yes, guilt and shame squared...especially over the fainting part. Talk about a visceral over-reaction...:eek:

But here's the thing...I have come to believe over the decades that DADT is also a control mechanism that is imposed upon us by our wives and SO's. A form of emotional blackmail, if you will, to get us to toe the line and have us bend to their will. If it wasn't for the crossdressing, it would likely have been something else for these types of women. But crossdressing is particularly powerful tool in that regard since it is so uncommon and bizarre in some peoples' mind.

Some women are free spirits, open-minded and non-judgemental, can adapt to a crossdressing partner with a bemused "whatever floats your boat" attitude, and life continues on uninterrupted. Others are insecure, controlling, and anal-retentive by their very natures (personality/up-bringing/childhood trauma or some combination thereof?) and need to control every aspect of their lives as well as that of everyone else around them. My wife - all of her other fine qualities notwithstanding - falls into that category. I have finally come to the conclusion that our DADT situation is less about my crossdressing per se, but more about the fact that this is something that my wife cannot exercise any appreciable control over, and that gives her much anxiety. You know..."What if someone finds out?", "What if the kids unexpectedly come across your stash?", "What if the neighbours see you dressed as a woman when you leave the house?", "What if you meet someone we know while you are out in public as "Leslie"?" "Oh, the shame and horror!!! I could never show my face in public again!!!"

Would life be easier if I were not a crossdresser and hadn't brought this into our lives? Of course, but it is what it is. But as for the guilt and the shame...no, that is long since gone for me.

Somewhere along the line, society has brainwashed us into believing that crossdressing is some sort of evil perversion that must only be mentioned in hushed tones, if at all. Well, maybe not so much now, but certainly in the 1950's when my wife and I were growing up. That was the prevailing attitude back then, and it certainly helped shape our world view at the time. But here's the thing...maybe our wives or SO's didn't sign up to become involved with a crossdresser, but what about the wives and SO's who entered into a relationship or else married a "normal" man, only to find out belatedly that he was an alcoholic, an incurable gambler, had massive debts, had a porn addiction, had previously been married but didn't disclose that to her, had an illegitimate child out there somewhere, had a prison record, or even worse...was a pedophile. Did that make those wives' or SO's lives any less problematical as opposed to getting involved with a crossdresser? Do we deserve a special place in H*ll compared to some of those other "complicated" individuals they became entwined with simply because we like to wear women's clothing?

Here's another spin on this issue...Earlier this month, I started a thread sharing with the ladies on this forum that my wife had recently been diagnosed with breast cancer and was facing a mastectomy, and that I was looking for relationship advice on how to cope with this. My purpose in reaching out to others here was to see if anyone else had faced a similar situation in the past, and more particularly...to get their input to see if having a wife lose a breast had made their DADT situations become even more challenging in the long run because of the added layer of the wife now having additional self-image issues to deal with. I also made it clear in that post that I planned to be 100% supportive of my wife to help us get through this together and ensure that she would not feel any less of a woman in my eyes - or less attractive to me - because she had lost one of her primary female "markers". In other words...the old "for better or for worse" part of our marriage vows.

To be blunt about this...I did not sign up for such an unforeseen thing to happen to us either all those years ago when we first got married...just as my wife did not sign up for being married to a crossdresser. I see a certain equivalency here, and if I can make peace with the particular situation we now find ourselves in, it seems to me that I have a right to expect my wife to accept my crossdressing with the same level of generosity. She "paid it forward" all those years ago, and she should now be able to see that it was a worthwhile investment in our relationship given how things have come full circle now.

[DianeT]

Wow. The above post is so tactful (comparing the life accident that is breast cancer with the deliberate lying of a husband about his dressing, or confessing that you shared your wife's predicament with us just to get advice on the REAL predicament, the DADT), so full of love for the other sex that I don't know where to begin. Oh wait, maybe I'll - stop - there.

[Leslie Langford]

Yes, please do stop there, Diane.

Your ability to twist my words around is breathtaking. Rather than throwing out some choice bons mots here and criticising my lived experiences and how I've managed them, maybe consider walking in my shoes (heels?) instead. Not everyone lives your particular reality, and if what you and your wife do works for the two of you, then more power to you but don't judge everyone else by your own criteria.

I stand by what I said. DADT is a very complicated issue, everyone's situation is different, each person and their partner has their own perspective on it, and individual personalities come into play here as well. Besides which, my comments/advice were directed at Charlotte, not you, so why are you trying to hijack this thread and move it in a different direction?

[NancyJ]

I get it, Leslie. Since being transgender, or having these strong urges to crossdress, is not a choice and is, at the least, a psychological condition, and more likely a medical condition, you seem only to be asking for the same level of empathy and understanding that you lovingly give your wife. I recently had an interesting discussion with my “semi-DADT” wife about my gender dysphoria when we had occasion to discuss whether it was a “medical condition,” and fell within the “in sickness and in health” vow we had taken at the alter more than 40 years ago. (She agreed it did.)

I did not know that I had this “condition” when I got married (naively thought my urge to wear girls clothes would go away when I got married and had more sex.) So, I think it is a fair, if unfortunate, analogy that we (hopefully) love and support our partners in spite of their going through illness, cancer, depression, Covid, or whatever. It is not unreasonable to want to be loved and accepted. Nancy

[Natalie5004]

Well, I can only tell you what happened today.

My wife works out of the house 2 days a week. Today on her way out this morning I was in the shower shaving everything that needs to be shaved. I got out and started my process. It takes about 1 hour because I go all out including painted nails.
She called me to say she forgot her phone at home. I told her that I would bring it to her BUT I am in full glory. Do you want me to go out dressed? Absolutely not..... Do you want to come home and get it??? No...

Why are you dressed, she asked? Because we spoke of my Hobby and you know that on occasion I dress. Today is the day. DADT is a pain in the butt. If she knows you dress and does not want to see it, she should know that you do dress once in a while. Do you feel lucky?....

[char GG]

I think this thread has gone beyond the original OP question.