UK national census due in March , how trans are you ?

[Teresa]

I posed a similar question a couple of years ago but that was when I was still married . So my question then was , " Who would you lie to the government or your wife ? " when filling in the form .

When first announced it stated far more questions would be related to gender on the basis that the government needs to know what changes and facilities to improve for the TG community .

I understand it will be preceded by a letter with a password or number so you can complete the census form online , I haven't seen the lineup of questions yet but it could possibly raise problems in some homes if you are to give truthful answers bearing in mind to make a false declaration could mean a ?1,000.00 fine or possibly worse .

I'm pleased to say I no longer have any problems with completing the form honestly now I'm divorced but I do wonder how some people may deal with it and be honest about their gender needs .

The government is possibly giving us an ideal opportunity so it's up to us to take full advantage of it .

[GretchenM]

That is a tough situation and decision. I would want to answer as truthfully as possible, but I don't want to create a severe problem either. If they are going to actually use the information for beneficial purposes then answer honestly. But I am aware that in the UK there are some cases in courts and governmental perspectives that are not necessarily supportive. Pretty much the same here.

My wife knows something about Gretchen, but she doesn't know the finer details. I suppose it depends on how secure the census is with regard to making the information available to review by others that might use the information for purposes other than honorable. Over here they are pretty confidential and honest answers probably carry a low risk of revealing that publicly.

Plus there is the question of how they define TG, non-binary, etc. How far into that do you need to be to actually be considered in one of those categories? For you it is pretty obvious because you are basically a woman genderwise now. But far more are on the border.

[CharlotteCD]

I would write trans if it wasn't linked to any personal information, but I am simply not prepared to put that without having discussed it with my wife and with a gp/therapist.

[Shelly Preston]

Hi Teresa

I was curious so I googled the questions for 2021

At the start it asks
are you male or female

Later it asks-
Is the gender you identify with the same as your sex registered at birth ?

[Teresa]

Shelly,
Many thanks for doing a search .

The first question I reluctantly anwer M but the second question raises a problem , as GretchenM points out it's easier for me but how do you deal with the dilemma with your wife/partner sitting next to you ?

Charlotte,
I'm not sure how much help the therapist can be apart from they would want you to be honest but they aren't facing the same dilemma as you . Realistlicly it should be an honest answer from you but it may not be what the wife wants you to reply , back to my question , " Who do you lie to ?"

GretchenM,
Of course we are assured the answers are treated with strictest confidence but that begs the question how many need to know ? The information is only valid if it's shared otherwise there is very little point in holding a census at all .

At least I know in being free to be honest it could help others in our TG community , I hope so .

[JennyMay]

It seems to me that there is a problem in answering the question as asked. The problem is that they are asking a binary question about gender whilst gender is (at the very least) a spectrum. I don’t see myself as fitting into one box or another. I WISH I was totally female but I know that I am not. My answer to the second question would be ‘not completely’ but that won’t be an option.

[nvlady]

I was just thinking of a man and his wife filling out the form together and coming up to a question that asks "Have you ever cheated on your spouse?".

[Helen_Highwater]

teresa,

In relation to, "bearing in mind to make a false declaration could mean a ?1,000.00 fine or possibly worse ." it doesn't mean all questions have to be answered. Some are optional.

On a broader note it can be nerve racking to join this forum as the worry is once you click to join you'll immediately be outed to one and all. That same niggle sits there with the census in that admitting your gender differences will immediately have the police at your door with all the neighbours banging pots together in the street. However strict laws apply to the use of census data with the vast bulk of it being anonymised and that which isn't being visible to a very small number of people. Mis-use or disclosure of any data carries severe penalties.

[Teresa]

Helen,
Not having seen the form yet I can't answer what questions will be compulsory and what are optional but not answering a question could be seen as lying by omission .

I do feel this could be a serious question or a problem in some households but I wasn't inferring people knocking the door down brandishing pitchforks !!

That's an interesting quote , " Mis-use of data ! " who actually decides where that boundary is ?

Kim,
Lets not forget we are considering an official UK government document not a Mori poll , I can't answer for the official US census but there must be the same legal requirent to state true facts .

Jenny,
I was only responding to Shelly's two points so again having not seen the official document I can't say what alternatives will be offered .


I will add after I saw the proposed document a couple of years ago there may even be some dumbing down , some had already stated it was going too far . The one point I'm surprised at is they haven't postponed it until we have the worse of the pandemic behind us .

[kayegirl]

ITeresa, I think that you will find that Teresa question regarding gender identification is opotion all, but in any case, and speaking as onew who has worked the census in previous years, nobody is going to be checking your answer.
On another point, the UK census has been held every 10 years since 1711, why would you want to delay it now just because of the pandemic?

[Marguarite]

In the US our census was taken last year.

I don't remember that type of details.

[Rogina B]

Shelly,
Many thanks for doing a search .

The first question I reluctantly anwer M but the second question raises a problem , as GretchenM points out it's easier for me but how do you deal with the dilemma with your wife/partner sitting next
In the closet....You can't expect to have it both ways... Own it, or don't.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Teresa :hugs:, That kinda puts byou between a rock and a hard place, >Orchid**O:daydreaming:O**

[Natalie5004]

I am more lesbian than trans.

[Teresa]

Rogina,
We are talking about telling the truth for an official document and officially I'm still registered as male so it would would be a reluctant reply but true .

The rest won't be a problem to me but for some households it will be a problem , owning it to your wife or owning it to an official document .

Kaye ,
As mentioned I haven't seen the actual document yet so I can't answer what will be optional and what will be compulsory .

Blue ,
It could put some people in that situation , it will be a shame some can't come out for an official document because of their domestic situation.

Marguarite,
The UK is making good progress with gender issues , I see this as another step in the right direction but I fear not everyone will be able to take advantage of it .

Natalie,
I'm not sure if that will be one of the questions but I know what you mean .

[Beverley Sims]

I have been putting "other" down for some time now.

Goes along with the question, Are you black, white or brindle? :-)

[Shelly Preston]

That particular Census question is Voluntary

There is also an option to write in your identity.

So you could write in Non Binary.

[Teresa]

Kaye,
My point about delaying it is because the death rate is above normal parameters for modern times , maybe they should push it back later in the year when the figures level out .

Shelly,
As I've said it's an ideal time to truly assess the gender issue providing people are free to answer the question openly and honestly , we shouldn't be looking for ways to compromise the opportuntiy but sadly it looks like it's going to happen .

[Helena]

Like Kaye, I have worked on the Census, for the last 3 times.

In no particular order

Covid - The Government are obviously pushing online returns. If you post it back you won't meet anyone. It was only during the chase up that we had to visit people, and I imagine this year they may try that by phone?

It is actually a good time because people aren't moving about, which can generate confusion.

From memory there is no requirement to jointly fill it in. One person lists the household. So for those in difficult situations, volunteer to do this boring but necessary task.

You could lie to your hearts content. Nobody will check, though I imagine some datasets such as school age children will be correlated with other sources?

Funnily enough it is not about YOU. It is about what is happening in the general population. It is often speculated here, "how many of us are there?" This gives a chance at an idea and will help in the long term to formulate policy. The data is anonymised.

It is a positive step forward.

[susanmichelle]

I wonder if they had a question for this? I might even be tri-sexual. I?ll try about anything once & more if I like it. LOL

[HollyGreene]

I'm fairly certain that many of the questions in the UK census including gender and religion are not mandatory, so you would not risk a ?1000 fine if you weren't truthful or didn't answer them.

In the census for 2001, many people put their religion as Other and then wrote Jedi. The idea was that if more than 100,000 people wrote in a religion that wasn't on the list, it would be added to the list next time.
In 2011, it was not added to the list.

Nobody got fined for writing Jedi.

[Teresa]

HollyGreene,
It's no good complaining that the government hasn't put certain things in place or they haven't changed direction in making provisions for the minority population if people write stupid answers . OK no one was fined as far as it's known but it also wasn't much help to anyone .

Helena ,
Many thanks for clearing a few points up .

My main point really is being given the opportunity of being honest with our gender issues , that is assuming the government put all the proposals into practice afterwards .

I know in your situation you would have no problems with ticking all the boxes as I don't but in some households it could cause problems if you're in a DADT situation , I know M has strong views on that subject .

[jacques]

hello Kaygirl,
"A census has been taken in England and Wales, and separately for Scotland, every ten years since 1801, with the exception of 1941. " source - the National Archive
luv J

- - - Updated - - -

hello Helen,
normally the "head of the household" completes the census form; but I think that with it being online this year individuals can opt to complete it for tmeselves.
luv J

[Teresa]

Jacques,
As far as I'm aware that is the plan this year , we should receive a password in the post so we can access the online census form . Whether that makes the issues I raised easier or harder for some I can't say . For those without access to the internet I would guess they will be able to still use the post .

[Devi SM]

I'm not a UK citizen so my is just an opinion.

If you're in the closet not needing goverment support the answer (if your SO is with you answering without knowing your "reality" so you're cheating on her) would be male and male gender.

Now, if your wife knows about your gender conflicts why don't be honest with the goverment independently of you need or not their support.

Here in the states Last year we had the census. I answered online as head of house but they didn't ask about gender just sex, male or female. My answer was male because my "sex" (genitals are masculine).

Interestingly, for Christmas, one of my sons gave me 23andme as a gift. In the online profile I answer male as the sex.

Weeks later I received an "urgent " email from them asking me to clarify my sex because there were traits tonthe female sex. I explained I'm a transwoman with male (after orchiectomy surgery) genitals.

We're in a awakening world about gender issues.

I'd love everybody could be honest but for the sake of the family lost and other fears everybody must answer the more "convenient".

[Teresa]

Update to census dilemma,

I've just received my password notification in the post .
In the information leaflet it states quite clearly that it must be completed by law if you do not or supply false information you could be fined up to ?1.000.00 . Some questions are clearly labelled as voluntary , it is not an offence if these aren't answered .

In a sectioned titled , " Answering separately from you household " . It states a second access code can be requested so a separate form can be completed .

So to answer my own question the UK government has obviously thought the implications through and offered an alternative solution .

[Jane G]

I went online and filled out the UK census form yesterday. The questions on Gender are optional. I declined to answer them.

[Teresa]

Jane thanks for your comments .

How do you feel about not answering the gender questions bearing in mind it's to assess what support the government needs to put in place for the future .

[jacques]

hello Teresa and all,
I have just completed my census form.
the questions about sexuality and trans-ness are optional - you can skip them.
But, you might prefer to answer so that your descendants can read it in 100 years' time!
stay healthy,
Luv J

[Teresa]

Jacques,
I certainly won't have second thoughts about that , I'm not ashamed being TG even if it's down in history , besides they all know now anyway .

[AllieSF]

We complain about not being accepted, have no real idea of what our total population is, we want services from the Government to assist us and make our lives more livable, and then we do not want to help ourselves and others like us out, so, we lie on the questions or just do not answer them. I get it if one is in the closety and has someone looking over their shoulder while filling it out.

Theresa,

You are surprising me with your "Male" answer. You have been calling yourself a full time woman for a few years now, are intelligent and then create a poor excuse why you will answer male! If the question is how you were labeled at birth or what is on your legal documents, I get it. The Government needs statistics and this is the perfect place to be honest and help yourself and all other struggling transgender people out. Be honest, don't lie.

[Stephanie47]

Teresa, the questions and explanation of the questions is on-line.

I accessed the Brit census. It does indicate some questions are voluntary. I guess that would pose a question if your wife is sitting next to you. You could jointly say it is none of the government's business. The census also states someone has to complete the "household" questions. It also states one can request and get a separate access code to answer the census and that fact will not be shared with anyone else in the household, etc. Do you really know how your wife will answer? Are you making the assumption if she rails against cross dressing does that preclude she may identify as transgender, lesbian, whatever? Me? If I was to answer the Brit census I would indicate I was straight heterosexual. I find no conflict with my sexual preference or sexual identity. My problem is dealing with people who have a problem dealing with who I am.



Our military, once again, is allowing transgender men and women to serve, and, therefore, the Department of Veterans' Affairs has an interest in gathering information to prepare for servicing those veterans.

[Teresa]

Allie,
I haven't made an official gender change so I have to honestly answer " male at birth " otherwise it would be a false declaration , so I don't consider it a poor excuse . The fact I have the freedom to state my adopted gender now is the important point and that is my point when I posted this thread .

Stephanie,
I see it as self defeating by declaring it none of the government's business , this is an ideal opportunity for the TG community and other minority groups in the UK .

Personally all this isn't a problem for me as I now live alone , what answers my ex-wife is making is none of my business as she also lives alone .

A conflict could arise if the the TG person ( male or female ) in the household wishes to make a true declaration on sexual preferences or gender and the partner objects to it . As I discovered you can request a second password and make a separate declaration but then it's back to my question who do you choose to lie to , your wife/partner or the government ?

[Stephanie47]

Teresa, I stated the census allows anyone to ask for and receive a separate access code that would not be shared with anyone else. I said, if a husband and wife were to by-pass the question, there is still the opportunity to answer the questions separately. Presumably, sexual identity and sexual orientation questions can be answered in that manner. A secret is best shared with nobody.

[char GG]

Just out of curiosity, do you think some people are afraid to be truthful or will not be truthful with this census form? And why?

[Di]

We complain about not being accepted, have no real idea of what our total population is, we want services from the Government to assist us and make our lives more livable, and then we do not want to help ourselves and others like us out, so, we lie on the questions or just do not answer them. I get it if one is in the closety and has someone looking over their shoulder while filling it out.

Theresa,

You are surprising me with your "Male" answer. You have been calling yourself a full time woman for a few years now, are intelligent and then create a poor excuse why you will answer male! If the question is how you were labeled at birth or what is on your legal documents, I get it. The Government needs statistics and this is the perfect place to be honest and help yourself and all other struggling transgender people out. Be honest, don't lie.

This is exactly howI feel .
I just do not understand the need to lie, it is not like you are married and hiding it.
How else are things to change when it is hidden you even exist?
Is it shame?
Is it from hiding yourself all these years?
Why is this even such a big deal?
Sad really.

[Wen4cd]

I always immediately place the census form directly into the rubbish bin where it belongs. I will not be a statistic, and want no intrusion, prying, or 'assistance' from any government. The narrative that they are doing this to assist you some way is always a lie. It's just a huge data-grab and I won't be a part of it

[Shelly Preston]

Sadly throwing the form in the bin is not an option.

You could be fined 1000 GB Pounds or $ 1400 usd

[Felixkoch2312]

Yep, I think that your idea is clear enough

[Jane G]

Perhaps I am wimping out, by not answering them. But I have chosen to support my wife and her me, as we age. I think we both understand who I am, after 30+ years together. Life will never be simple or straight forward. I have known from a young age that the inner me is female. But, like all those in a similar position, I have had to manage that against opportunity. My wife and I are a unit. I think we always will be. Our individual wants and needs are less important that what we are able to give each other.

[Teresa]

Char,
I do feel some people will chose not to answer questions if it could cause problems within the household , Jane makes that point .

Even if some consider themselves TG they may prefer to remain hidden in the closet rather than admit to a formal government document . While we are assured the information is secure and treated in confidence , I do feel these days people don't feel assured that fact is true , hacks and leaks occur at all levels . Computers sent for scrap apparently cleared of all information only to find the NHS and some financial institutions had scams appear through the the information being retrieved .

Perhaps some people in the UK have their doubts about the government's intentions , I hope I'm not being naive in thinking this information will benefit not only the TG communtiy but the LGBTQ communtity in general .

[Stephanie47]

Char, I think some are so paranoid that someone will find out that he or she will not even answer the questions if single. I cannot image a man-woman couple sitting down and perusing and answering the questions and one spouse truthfully answers to the bewilderment of the other.

[Teresa]

Stephanie,
I can , you didn't know my wife , which is probably just as well !!

[Bobbi75]

id like to answer the truth that im trans but would be afraid it would get out

[Teresa]

Final Update,
I sat down and completed the form this morning . Initially I ticked the box as " MALE " at birth and filled in my full male name . When I got to the gender questions I ticked the box as " TG FEMALE " . After considering for a few moments I returned the the first section and changed my name to Terri and my second name from John to Joanne . I doubt very much if I will have feedback to those changes but felt so much happier making them . I will add the section on gender issues was very limited and not what was described when the census alteration were first revealed a couple of years ago so I can only assume after consulations that section was dumbed down . The important point is they recognise the need to ask those questions .

[Helen_Highwater]

id like to answer the truth that im trans but would be afraid it would get out

No chance of that. The data controls are extremely tight and any information sharing is strictly regulated. Anyone found in breach of the rules faces severe punishment.

In answering the questions I initially put down Transgender but the changed it to Gender Fluid as I felt it represented my situation more closely.

[Teresa]

Bobbi75,
At some point you have to make that choice , Helen is correct ( I hope !) but it was great to openly make the statement officially , I can't say how much further my changes will be . I would like to think others made the same choice and ticked the boxes affiming their gender status .

[Swottie]

My solution to the tricky situation was to have me and only me filling in the online form. ��

The first question was what *sex* I am, and since I haven't been reassigned then I can only say M. The second question asked what *gender* I identified with, for that I couldn't truthfully answer female since I do identify as male in a lot of everyday situations. So I wrote non binary, which is actually the first time I have admitted to anyone, including myself.

[Teresa]

Swottie,
I'm glad you answered that way , I hope more were honest , it's in our interests . For those who chose not to it's no good complaining the government isn't aware of gender needs if they don't know the correct numbers they're dealing with .