Companion to Charlotte?s would you lie thread :)

[Di]

I asked Charlotte CD if I-could make a companion thread to hers.
https://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?273508-If-asked-outright-would-you-lie-to-your-family
I was wondering what is everyones thoughts on why when first asked do some lie?
I am guessing it might be after years of hiding it you automatically deny it, or you are ashamed, or you think your partner might leave.

My wanting to talk about this more is so wives and girlfriends can see why you might deny when you have the chance to be open.I am sure they already have an idea if they are asking.
And CDs can see how when this happens and you are not forthcoming it makes the wife / gf not trust and it piles on from there. ( first this then that drip drip drip.
So lets talk - what would you wish you might have done differently ?
For those who told the truth right off....some suggestions for others.
From my perspective I think although it is scary to do for some , be honest, do not act like it is something you can stop , or act like it just a rare thing you do ( unless it is)
Lets help each other.
Thanks Charlotte for a great thread.

[CharlotteCD]

Great thread, and we should see some really useful insight.

Parents.

I lied because they were not LGBT friendly, and I was always told that trans people were disgusting. I would always deny wearing the clothes I had taken because I didn't want the arguments, to upset them, to be thrown out etc.

Wife

I didn't lie, but I equally didn't make any effort to tell her the whole story. I didn't tell her because I was ashamed of who I am, I was unsure of who I am, I didn't want to go out dressed, and I didn't want to transition. Add in that I hadn't really dressed since I'd been having chemo, and it was the best part of 6 years before I would dress - 4 years into our relationship. I honestly thought that the chemo and brain haemorrhage I had may have changed me permanently.

[GretchenM]

Thanks, Di. I was thinking about a similar need for a thread about the "why lie?" question.

I certainly cannot speak for everyone, but the professional TG literature says fear is a large part of it. Fear of rejection, fear of being made fun of (some of my family is really good at that one and it does not feel good), and fear of being thought of as a bit loony.

For some of us, in the early days there were traumatic experiences when we were caught trying to be the alternative. That will drive a person into the closet so fast it is like they were shot from a canon. And the trauma keeps them in the closet and immersed in a secretiveness that is definitely not healthy. On the other hand, there are often perfectly good reasons to keep the secret. Sadly, those reasons are sometimes quite valid or, even more interesting, were quite valid in the past and the person is operating in that past mode. Some of those reasons still are valid today, but more often than not the validity that is believed to be there really isn't there. It's imagination.

So how about me? It is definitely a hang up that I seem to have difficulty getting past and I am well aware that its source is in a very deep trauma concerning my expressed desire to be a girl when I was 8 (67 years ago). I know a very great deal about gender, its expression, and the many theories behind gender variance's causes. Yet I cannot walk down the street as Gretchen without feeling like I am going to have a heart attack at any moment (already had one of those 10 years ago). So knowledge is not the answer to the freedom of being her in the real world. Quite depressing, in some ways. It requires somehow getting past the negative effects of an ancient trauma. Takes a lot of courage or maybe someone to drag me out there and prove that I will not be a spectacle for the evening news.

[ellbee]

Honestly, I'm not so sure I'm exactly the best person to try to answer this, since I'm seemingly perpetually single -- mainly by (subconscious?) choice. Like, so much so, that I don't really date or even bother to attempt to. Only once in a blue moon will the right person come along at the right time in my life. Of course, even then, I'll still fight it tooth & nail -- and very rarely do I "lose." The Force is strong in this one, and this ain't exactly my 1st rodeo. ;)

That said... :D


Yes, it's already been said: Shame (not always necessarily self-shame, but that someone important/close would officially know), fear of rejection, fear of them leaving, fear of getting made fun of, fear of others now knowing (when it's none of their business), fear of them looking at you differently (and perhaps them looking elsewhere, instead, for a more "normal" & "manly man"), fear of being shunned by some sort of social circle/professional circle/community-at-large, etc. Because once that cat is out of the bag? Things could really spiral out of control. :rc:

Worst-case scenario? Take a look at what can potentially happen to those who eventually transition. Sometimes? Their entire world can crumble down around them. They can lose a *lot*. No, CD'ers might not typically experience that to such an extreme -- but in some cases can get pretty close.


Anyway, on some level, it is the fear of the unknown. We already know the status quo. But what happens should we decide to do the right thing & roll that dice... Feeling lucky, punk? :sad:

Things will probably change to some degree or another. What we need to keep in mind, is that it's not necessarily a bad change... That it may actually be a *good* one! :GD:

There are definitely some couples out there who can share a lot of fun & psychological intimacy with all this. Not only do these GG's merely accept it -- but actively encourage & even participate! It opens this whole new dimension to the relationship, one that wouldn't be present otherwise. Definitely enough success stories out there. Unfortunately, for some? Variables such as age & geography can play a role in how this turns out. For example, for those who are, say, under 50 years old? You may have a better shot at a positive outcome -- or at least relatively speaking.


Maybe not with a significant other, but I have taken calculated *social* risks with this. Coming out to the right person(s)? Oh, wow... Best. Move. EVER! Never in a million years could I have had such great experiences had I instead kept my mouth shut. Totally worth! :thumbsup:


Perhaps easier said than done, but let's get real: Your SO has a right to know. Does it absolutely suck? You got it. Especially since we didn't ask or choose to be this way. But in our hearts, we already know that the best & only true option is to put on your big-girl panties & man up. :battingeyelashes:

[Di]

Thank You Charlotte, Gretchen and Ellbee.
I really feel it helps understanding on both sides.
I appreciate your input means a lot.

[bridget thronton]

I have never asked anyone to lie for me and I am willing to take the fallout if someone shares my secret. Answering my wife's questions honestly (and my adult children's) was my main reason to come out to them (yes in the ear!y years I hoped my wife would not ask certain questions and after several years started volunteering information without waiting to be asked). Yes it was a scary time.

[Star01]

This is a simple one to answer. Back around 2003 my wife found out what I was doing and told me that she did not want to know about or see my dressing. She hinted at that time it might be a deal breaker if I was to push it.

I tried purging and lasted until 2012 before I slowly collected a few easily hidden things. I have enough clothes, makeup and jewelry to pose for an occasional photo but not enough to get dressed up and go out in public.

When my wife made her proclamation I had a choice, purge and never do it again or keep dabbling in it in secret. I tried to stop and it lasted about eight years until I gave in. That moved the bar up to the stealth category where I remain to this day. The pink fog and resulting stress sometimes borders on unbearable and I do go to therapy to help deal with it. She thinks my therapy is for some kind of vague self improvement goal.

Anyways, I am secretive which sometimes requires not revealing things or in some cases a white lie. The alternative is risking losing my wife of nearly 51 years. I chose my wife over the freedom to dress and tried to suppress the urge and lost the battle.

There really aren?t any other choices besides family vs dressing for me. This forum is one of the only places I know where I may get criticized for putting my wife above my own happiness. That is a badge of honor in some circles. If I am a bad person for suppressing my urges to dress and grabbing any chance I can to dig into my one drawer full of limited female attire I will own it and admit to occasionally twisting the truth.

[Stephanie47]

Di, I looked at your bio before responding to check your age?? Anyway, I am a post WW2 baby. I grew up in a less enlightened period of time. Any sex education came from the street. The only "resource" material out there was Playboy which was watched like a hawk down at the corner newspaper store. "Hey, get away from that magazine!" It was commonly espoused that men who wore women's clothing were homosexuals; better referred to as queers, fags, fruits. Homosexuals were fair game to be beat up. My parents were homophobic. Once, while sitting in the back seat of our sedan with my brother with mom and dad in the front seat there was a car in front of our with two guys sitting close together on the bench seat. Remember those before the center console? Well, mom and dad went into a tirade. This pre-dated my sister, so I was less than twelve and not yet aware of the future interest in mom's clothing. But, I do remember those comments and others.

Yes, I ended up dabbling in my mother's lingerie draw; bra, panty, hosiery and slips. Sometimes, if I had time I smeared my face with lip stick. I know I probably looked like a clown. I hated myself because I must have been one of those "queers, fags, fruits, etc" The world was destined to hunt me down and hate me. Of course, this never made any sense because I lusted after Annette Funicello of the Mickey Mouse Club from an early age and then unobtainable starlets and older neighborhood girls who did a good job teasing boys. And, there was those Playboy Magazines. Of course, I whacked off with those and not some magazine with men. At some point I did not fit in my mother's clothing and essentially those forays into her lingerie ceased. My father died when I was 18 and a freshman in college. I went through college, graduated, and, Uncle Sam said "Come on down, we need you to go to Nam and kill people." In the army, especially being in the infantry in Nam, there were no thoughts about anything but staying alive. I did that, barely. I could check off that box of manly activities; earned a Purple Heart with Oak Leaf Cluster. I lasted half a tour. I met and married my wife of fifty years while in the army. She was in the army also.

Now, I had decided to marry her. There was this fleeting memory of wearing my mother's clothing. There was still a hint of that question; Am I somehow gay because those teenage years had some unmanly activities. Totally confusing. My future wife did unload some of her sordid past to me. I thought, wow, I may be accepting a world of trouble, but, I cannot complain at all because......

After being married my interest in nylon gowns and slips was slowly rekindled. She found me wearing a white nylon peignoir one night. I told her the truth....as far as liking the feel of the nylon. She was accepting of this little kink. We spent many Saturday's buying her sexy lingerie and putting them to good use in the evening. Along the way we bought for me two nighties and she gave me a cast off one of her girl friends gave her. It was not soft and ended up donated somewhere. There was some hosiery. But, that was it. When our first child was born she asked me to put the lingerie wearing on the back burner as we lived in a one bedroom apartment with the crib at the foot of the bed. That was 1975. We moved across country and ended up buying a house. Then a second child. Cross dressing, more than the nighties, emerged; slips and panties. I bought my first bra; vivid red Vanity Fair. Our daughter at age three yanked it out of a box in the bottom draw of my armoire. That precipitated "The Talk."

Yes, I heard "If I had known I would not have married you!" I tried to explain the "why" but could not. I told her that I wished I did not do what I was doing. Why did I not tell her when this was creeping further. I asked if she remembered when she and her cousin totally filleted the cross dressing guy down the street. My wife's cousin worked with his wife. Cut the poor guy to shreds. How was I suppose to jump my frying pan into the fire? My wife, as I have related at times on this forum. said she wished she had NOT told me of her sordid past because it would have made it easy for her to walk away. She said it would have been two-faced to dump me when I totally accepted her. Incidentally her unresolved issues have contributed to more stress in our marriage than my cross dressing. Along the way I still sought her approval because I still thought I was somehow defective, although I was doing all those "manly" things. Once we went to the mall to buy me for my birthday present. I was some panties. I guess I wanted reaffirmation of who I was. If she bought me panties that would be acceptance. It did not work out. She trembled. The light bulb went off. This is akin to spousal mental abuse. That was it. I resolved to leave her alone. She was a little kid from a small hick town who did not sign on for this. This was not her idea of a husband. It wasn't until thirty years after our marriage that I broke down in an emergency room with some residual effects of battle wounds babbling incoherently of blood baths in the Nam. She told the attending doctor she in thirty years of marriage she never heard any of this. I had more secrets than wearing women's clothing, but, to kill and be maimed is more acceptable than wearing women's clothing.

So, here I am while my wife sleeps. She always wants me to get her up before "The View" comes on at 10 AM. I am banging away on this keyboard wearing a white bra and panty and full slip under a long fluffy bathrobe. I will change into my acceptable attire about 9:30 AM.

Did I lie? You tell me. I don't tell her of my purchases because she has the mind of an ostrich. Head in the ground. Was I to tell her when I was a kid many years ago I sometimes slipped into my mother's slip when I thought it was in the distant past. After all did I not somehow prove myself slogging though the jungles. Outside of the group of combat vets I hang out with (support group) I have not encountered anyone in my neighborhood or work who did what I did. I often wonder if there are cross dressers among them. I will never know. It is now some of my baggage.

Wow! I got timed out! I did not realize how many words I wrote. How it answers you question, Di.

PS: I forgot, when we moved into our house there was a news report of a cross dressing man who apparently had enough. He got dolled up. Set his house of fire. He held the firemen at bay by shooting at the front door while the house burned around him. The newspaper reported his charred body was found wearing strapped on heels. I think back in 1979 people thought it was a big joke; found burned to death in his high heels. I still to this day remember his name. I often wonder what drove him to kill himself.

[Kirsty2907]

All, my views..
My father was born during the war and has closed mind mentality to anything along these lines.
My mum has passed on, but the conversation never came up, but i always wonder if she knew (due to me hiding my sisters things in cupboards) i thought successfully but possibly not. She was more open minded but I was not ready for conversations like that.
Re siblings, I don?t really see a need to be open about something that is no ones business, their knowledge will not enhance my life at all.
In a way it?s my thing and I want to keep it that way, life is simper if when I?m in guy mode I?m the same everyone knows, when I?m in gal mode it?s me time.
Possibly also some of the fun would go if people knew.
Re work and neighbours they are a definite no, nothing to do with them.
Friends, don?t want to lose any.
Currently no wife, who I?d love to be on board with and help me, but that?s not an easy spanner to drop into the machine.

Not sure if there is an element of shame in me still (very possibly)🤔 still working on that one

Although it is our right to be who we are, I think it?s equally weighted against a woman be entitled to what they desire a real mans man to protect them, sure I?ve heard the they didn?t sign up for this comment a few times

[Amy Lynn3]

I have no need to tell anyone now, as my wife died some years ago. However, she did find my stash and I admitted the stuff was mine. I did partial dressing in front of her after that and she even bought things for me.

No attempting to hijack this thread, as this is only a comment that goes with the thread. I had wondered today, before coming here, how would be the best way to confess to a spouse. Would you be slow in giving out details if ask do you dress or just blurt it out, that I like to wear female cloths. Maybe even the gg's could add, how would they want to hear the confession.

[Teresa]

Di,
I agree the previous thread does open up so many thoughts on the subject .

It occured to mem now I've been spearated three years how much if anything is my ex-wife lying to people we knew and friends who question our divorce , I guess that also applies to my son and daughter . As far as my daughter is concerned she fully accepts me so I assume she is straight with everyone .

To answer what we would have done differently is hard because we see it all in retrospect .
No denying coming out and being truthful is so hard to do but at some point you have to be honest with yourself so you can be honest with others . The promise of stopping was more of an assumption made by my wife as she hoped counselling was a possible cure . I agree about making it clear we are not the only CDers/ TG people in tbe World although I wonder how much of a consolation that is .

The important point is we are all individuals , our circumstances are unique to us , what works for me may not work for others , all we can do is share the highs and lows so others might consider the alternatives .

[Di]

Teresa, yes we all are individuals , I think we can learn with these threads too :)
Amy Lynn I will pass your question along and see if anyone wants to reply thanks
Kirsty, thank you
Stephanie, very interesting and thank you
Star, thank you and I am glad we have this forum to talk and support each other .
Bridget, thank you
Thanks everyone
And Charlotte ty for bringing this subject up.

[char GG]

@ Amy Lynn 3

Would you be slow in giving out details if ask do you dress or just blurt it out, that I like to wear female cloths. Maybe even the gg's could add, how would they want to hear the confession.
Quick response to this question: Many GG's would consider the "slow giving out details", the drip drip drip method (which Di mentioned in the OP). My opinion is that is's not really fair. It keeps the SO wondering "what's next".

Thanks, Charlotte and Di for this thread.

[mykell]

im trying to help....


I didn't lie, but I equally didn't make any effort to tell her the whole story. I didn't tell her because I was ashamed of who I am, I was unsure of who I am, I didn't want to go out dressed, and I didn't want to transition.

this is probably the truest for most peeps coming here.....we dont even understand ourselves....how could we share with a partner, especially our soulmate, will they leave me, will they be repulsed by our admission and leave, hardest decision i ever made in my life when i chose to disclose the truth, we are still together and im fortunate she has an understanding, she does not want to participate or see it but she knows whats in my duffel bag thats been found in the car from time to time.

so i worked out that i didnt need to transition....lots older now but if i knew what i know now that may or may not have been different....i can say this that where i am now being in the public and interacting with folks in a retail location as opposed to the support venues i mostly used, i am better for doing so....i like being seen....i like seeing the different reactions....i like when folks accept that im different from what they may have expected....i love that expression when i talk about my wife to folks who are not expecting that....i love it because she stayed and cared enough to learn......i wear different clothes but im still at the core of who i am....with that said, life is like a box of chocolates....you never know what your gonna get....."thanks forest"

so what worked for me and mine may not for some other couple, some will not be able to accept that they lost "control" "perception" "status" "image" of who they are as a couple because of the LGBT acknowledgement and they are now part of or are now different.

now i dont pass the smell test when out and about, you may have to take a second, maybe a third look but i will answer questions and share my"self" with folks at large for the benefit of the community, as soon as i open my mouth all bets are off, ive lived a male life....i just have a softer side.


if this helps one couple then i am glad that i shared with the group....

EDIT

i got my wife in the living room and just told her who i was, thought she already knew from all the mistakes i made, items left out ect. but she took it like she was hit by a ton of bricks.

when my mom passed my wife and i had been blessed with the task of clearing out her apartment, they divorced when i was two, "still trying to finish my book"

the mrs found a self published book "a handbook for transsexuals" she showed me, i was shocked.

once home i asked her were is was, when found it had notes.....times to feed....times to admister medications....mom was a nurse, she was caring for paula grossman a transsexual music teacher from nyc. the meds were her hormones ect.

[Judy-Somthing]

I think people lie when they feel it's the best thing to do.

I told my wife I dressed for the first five years of our marriage and then stopped while our children grew up.
I said after 18 years now the children have moved out, and due to lack of sex drive due to manapose CD-ing has come back!

Basically my lie is I told her that I only had a few dresses not 200 and I didn't even like CD-ing!
If she didn't freak out, I would ha told her the truth! Well at least I think I would have.

Some people don't want to hear the truth!

[Teresa]

Char,
I've always said there is no simple way of " Coming out " . Sometimes the shock happens when caught out but siting down quietly to ease her into it doesn't work either for some , one way or the other it comes as a shock for most wives/partners .

I watched a drama on TV about a young CDer coming out titled " A little bit of lippy !" eventually the character was accepted back into the marriage and close family . It was a catalyst for me but when it came to it as soon as I tried to come out with the words I sobbed my heart out , it was like a huge millstone lifted off my shoulders , I really don't beleive most wives can know how that feels . I'm sorry to say this again but I can nver really understand how some can call it a hobby , I would never have insulted my wife and family by calling it that .

[Dutchess]

Its always better for the GG's to know up front . The whole thing . Mainly because this is who you are and lying causes us not to know who we are really with , half of you , part of you or someone else entirely !
If they go fine , they weren't for you .
If married , then yes all in one sitting , you don't have to blurt anything out but make time to sit down and have a long talk. I tell you the broken trust is worse than the clothes and compounds the shock of wondering who this is in front of me .

[TheHiddenMe]

Why do some transgender individuals lie?

Because they believe it's in their self-interest to lie.

Fifty years ago how many gays married women, and lied about their sexual preferences, because it was better for them to do so?

How many men--and women--have extramarital affairs and lie about them? Based on the percentages, there are a lot more men and women lying about affairs than men lying about being transgender.

Today, how many men or women have disclosed to their spouses they are bi-sexual? Again, based on percentages of bi's in the population versus transgenders in the population, there are a lot more hidden bi-sexuals than there are hidden transgender individuals. How many men hide they are bi-sexual from their spouses because they worry their wives won't accept it/them?

The reason people lie in all these cases is because they have a lot more to lose if they tell the truth.

I am not defending those who don't tell their spouses. Yes, it should be disclosed pre-marriage, but I have met several individuals and they're spouses don't know. And if the spouses don't know, is that actually hurting the spouse?

Lying is a fact of life. The events of the past year have featured prominent lies that cost millions of people around the world their lives.

It's human nature to lie. That's why transgender individuals lie (or don?t fully disclose) their secrets.

[Teresa]

ThehiddenMe,
Lying isn't totally about self-interest , at the time it's also a consideration that others won't be hurt if they don't know , so we are attempting to protect others as well . Besides that I do beleive we go throgh life thinking it's something that will pass , something we grow out of but the problem arises when the feeling gets stronger . At first we deny it to ourselves so the lies start with us and then it becomes a drip feed of concerns others will find out so we then lie to them . It is a tough call whether lying is right or wrong in these circumstances but then living on a knife edge usually results in something happening and the whole stack of cards come crashing down !

Finally being honest has paid off for me I have gained more than I lost but it was a gamble , OK it did cost me my marriage but losing that also proved the right thing to do for everyone .

[DianeT]

Teresa, I understand the principle of lying to protect people but I don't think it applies here. By lying (hiding my dressing) I only ever protected myself and surely not my wife. What I did to my wife wasn't protection, it was treason.

To answer Di's question, the only time I was asked was by my mother when she caught me with a pair of nylons of hers once I was in bed, ill. I was 11 or so. I said some stupid lie, and she simply asked me to not steal her stuff anymore.
My wife never asked because she didn't suspect. I honestly don't know what my reaction would have been if she had. I tend to think I would have lied. Why? Because even today, the thought of being asked this question by my wife before I came out to her is wrenching my spine, it viscerally horrifies me. It's a combination of the terrible way I think my wife would look at me afterwards (not a man anymore), and of the instant translation of the hiding/lying for so many years into an horrible guilt.
It took me years to build up the courage to come out to her. After I did, the first fear above proved to not be justified. I'm still facing the second one, though, but I made my bed and have to lie in it (no pun).

[Teresa]

Diane,
Your comments demonstates the point I made for years that we were trapped in a male straighjacket , stuck with a social stereotype . What is so wrong with letting the maleness go , why are we so frightened to let that mask drop ? I spent most of my teenage and married years trying to prove that point until it became unbearable , do I have any regrets now ? Not one , I did what was expected of me and I'm very much respected for it but I'm also earning respect now for being true to my gender needs . As I said before it feels so good to finally be honest with myself and everyone else the downside it's taken most of my adult life to achieve it .

I feel treason is too strong a word , having gender issues and dealing with them is tough for some of us , my wife attempted to understand that . She never accused me of lying , she looks back and realises she dealt with the sitaution in the wrong way , natually she felt let down and disappointed because she was possibly losing her husband and a father to her children .

[Jacke]

This all kind of slipped up on me. I remember trying on a few things as a child, but that was all but forgotten by the time I met my wife. It was another 35 years before it popped up again. I bought some things at a yard sale, but never did more than try them on. Ten years later, we were planning on attending a special party and I told her I wanted to go dressed to the max. She was surprised but very accepting and helpful in the preparations. Unfortunately, the party was cancelled because of Covid and has not been rescheduled. But I have continued to dress occasionally with her acceptance. She says she does not understand, but accepts.

Someone here mentioned that sometimes both parties have issues we do not mention before marriage. Turns out my wife had some she did not mention for over 20 years. She was scared to tell me, not knowing how I would react. She found no condemnation from me. I wish she had been comfortable enough to tell from the beginning, but I understood it was not even her fault to begin with. Her silence back then helps me understand my silence about CDing.

I did not fear her leaving me because I know she has total commitment to me, and I to her. It took a conversation on this forum for me to understand my reluctance. Turns out I feared losing her RESPECT. Fortunately, she at most shakes her head and chuckles.

We have been together for 50 years and been through life?s struggles. She means more to me than any other person, with our son being a close second. Last week, I had a few minutes of terror as I though I might lose her to death. Fortunately, the EMS techs got there quickly. A moment like that puts smaller issues in perspective.

Now, if we can ever get that party rescheduled ...

[Teresa]

Jacke,
Thanks for that comment as you say both parties may withhold the truth , it's not all one sided as I discovered .

[rachelatshop]

Hi, When my wife asked me what my interest in cross dressing was I didn't lie to her (I didn't really know how to answer the question) but I must say that I had been married for 15 yrs before saying anything.
First I have to say that when I started no one had ever heard of cross dressing and sexual identity and gender issues were not talked about. My early cross dress had a profound sexual aspect and in those days a man's sexuality was not something you talked about, and I must say that I was ashamed of how the cross dressing made me feel sexually.
If I were young and knew what I know today about cross dressing I would be open with any partner

[TheHiddenMe]

ThehiddenMe,
Lying isn't totally about self-interest , at the time it's also a consideration that others won't be hurt if they don't know , so we are attempting to protect others as well . Besides that I do beleive we go throgh life thinking it's something that will pass , something we grow out of but the problem arises when the feeling gets stronger . At first we deny it to ourselves so the lies start with us and then it becomes a drip feed of concerns others will find out so we then lie to them .

...

Finally being honest has paid off for me I have gained more than I lost but it was a gamble , OK it did cost me my marriage but losing that also proved the right thing to do for everyone .

To borrow the words of one of your countrymen, "Me thinks you doth protest too much". :)

You admit you lied (to yourself) and to your partner. It certainly sounds like if you hadn't lied, you would have never married.

You got what you wanted, your ex-wife got a husband, which she wanted (IIRC, you were married for 40 plus years). You're now divorced because your ex couldn't deal with this side of you.

You're obviously happier now, which is good.

But your example is a prime illustration of what I wrote about why people lie about their personal secrets (and as another poster pointed out, women can have their own secrets too that they hide and never reveal).

Simply put, people lie because they believe it's in their interest to lie.

[Amy Lynn3]

charGG: I agree with your statements of wanting to know all the details about crossdressing, if ask of your spouse. When my wife found my stash, she ask me who they belonged to ? I said they are mine. Of course more talking followed. I go out of my way now to be honest about everything, even if I come up on the small end of the bat. However, it helps ME to be honest, but I must say that some people tell me... you did not need to be so honest. I guess some people want to be lied to, but that is another topic and another day.

[docrobbysherry]

No, I didn't lie when my ex found out I had suddenly been trying on a few women's things. She was actually relieved that I hadn't been with another woman!:tongueout

[Teresa]

HiddenMe,
At the age we married I never conidered the implications of CDing , I did think it was something that would pass at that age which I'm sure many others thought . The realisation that began to sink in some twenty years into my marriage that was the start of lying to myself , I looked at the male aspect of my life and considered the female side wasn't part of me , which I now know it was .

It was a shame we finally began to be honest with each other when we decided to separate , it was like a breath of fresh air for both of us , so it possibly wasn't all to do with my gender issues . We sat and chose houses for each other , was were considering who had what pieces of furniture , our kids were on board at the start of this discussion .

There is no single reason why people lie and some of it is as much to do with protecting others as it could be considered a selfish act to protect ourselves .

I agree I'm happier now because now the dust has settled my wife is happier too , I did not walk away from my marraige , it was an amicable decision considering all interested parties .

[Territx]

Thank you all so much -- I appreciate the insight into my own "personality(ies)" in many of the comments. I did not try to make notes of the answers by generations but did wonder about it as I read each of the postings. I am a "Baby Boomer" -- I am pretty sure that most of that age did not grow up in an "accepting" household.

I have posted elsewhere about the reasons for "keeping the secret/denying" but the stigma, risk of losing my family, and the fact that it is really no-one else's business really strike a cord with me. I fervently hope that the generations which follow will be more open to and accepting of this interest.

[sometimes_miss]

Its always better for the GG's to know up front . The whole thing <snip>
But that begs the question, of how much crossdressing is required, for it to become mandatory confessing to it?
A single Halloween party where he dressed up as a cute cheerleader, and liked it a bit too much, but never thought if it again?

Trying on mom's heels when he was 9 to see what it was like to wear heels, having older sis saying he looked cute, so he would secretly sneak in and practice walking in them until he got good at it?

Experimenting with make up and nail polish for a couple of years in high school with the goth crowd, and gradually adding clothing to his wardrobe which would sort of make him look like a girl, though he never had any thoughts of doing it to be seen by others as female?

Where exactly is the point where it must be brought up?

One episode? Two? Five? Ten? Months of being a guy who appears like a goth chick every day, even though other goths don't seem to think he's girlish at all? Or how about a loner, who doesn't hang out with the goths, who just likes dressing that way, and spends all of his time dressed that way just because he likes it? If he doesn't hang out with the goths, does that make him a crossdresser? Or a transsexual? And does he have to bring it up after he hasn't dressed like that for a dozen years, and doesn't think he ever will, ever again?

We have to give our SO's some slack; take them for who they are, and realize that just because we've learned something new about who they were or have always been, we have loved them and enjoyed being loved by them for a long time, and it's been wonderful, and we shouldn't necessarily let one thing, destroy all the other things about them that we love.

The 'OH MY GOD, HE'S A CROSSDRESSER, HOW TERRIBLE, HOW HORRIBLE, HOW EMBARRASSING THAT I'M STUCK WITH SUCH A SORRY EXCUSE FOR A MAN!' feeling is ridiculous. After all, if WE are all of a sudden 'lesser' worth males because we are seen as feminine, I still wonder why women don't understand that they're insulting themselves at the same time, by considering our behaving, feeling, and emulating them, to be a judgement that since WE are now considered less worthy of their love and admiration, then their own lives are, by simple comparison, also must necessarily be considered of 'lesser' worth than men's lives as well. When is equality between the sexes, going to mean that men can be seen as just as good when WE are feminine, if women insist that they be considered as equal when they behave in masculine ways?

[Beverley Sims]

I have lied over the years because it has been convenient, safest thing to do and not hurt or compromise anyone else at the time/

[confused_cathreen]

The 'OH MY GOD, HE'S A CROSSDRESSER, HOW TERRIBLE, HOW HORRIBLE, HOW EMBARRASSING THAT I'M STUCK WITH SUCH A SORRY EXCUSE FOR A MAN!' feeling is ridiculous. After all, if WE are all of a sudden 'lesser' worth males because we are seen as feminine, I still wonder why women don't understand that they're insulting themselves at the same time, by considering our behaving, feeling, and emulating them, to be a judgement that since WE are now considered less worthy of their love and admiration, then their own lives are, by simple comparison, also must necessarily be considered of 'lesser' worth than men's lives as well. When is equality between the sexes, going to mean that men can be seen as just as good when WE are feminine, if women insist that they be considered as equal when they behave in masculine ways?

You know, I read your post with interest. Would you believe me if I told you that this thought, that he is "less of a man" never once crossed my mind? The first time I saw this way of thinking was in this forum, mostly on posts by other male crossdressers. And my honest question is, do you think this is just plain projecting? I know some members posted their wives saying something of that nature but I wonder if this was this honest thinking and not just something they said to hurt the crossdresser in the same way they felt hurt themselves. But I believe that the vast majority of this statement is made inside the heads of the crossdressers. Out of pure curiousity, could this just be one of the demons a lot of you seem to be struggling with?

The truth is that I just didn't want to be with a crossdresser. It wasn't a "less than" case, it was "not what I need in my life" case. Could it not be as simple as that?

[DianeT]

Cathreen, I confess it was a fear of mine indeed before coming out. From a very early age as a boy you are (or at least were in my time) being told that looking effeminate is the worst thing you can do as a male. If you don't want to enter a fight you are a "pussy", if you show some sensitivity you receive all shades of homophobic epithets, etc. I don't think this is breaking news to anyone. So this thing of being less than a male is very much ingrained in the male psyche. On the other hand, while I've seen female characters disparaging men this way in countless movies and series, I yet have to see this once in real life, so based on my limited personal experience I would tend to agree with you that this is mostly a projection from crossdressers. Steffi your mileage may vary and maybe you have examples to provide on your end. But I think that like some members you overlook the trust factor. If a wife says "Oh my God" it means that she probably wasn't told upfront. If she wasn't, then she was lied to (or "omitted" to, like many members would argue), and the broken trust is often the greater issue, not the dressing (my situation is an example of that). But when the going gets rough, it may be tempting for some to go around telling that their wife didn't like the dressing, about which the common wisdom will agree they couldn't do anything, instead of the lying, which they are fully accountable for.

[Dutchess]

Hi Steffi ,
I just saw that you quoted me on that . It should be all of it that you talked about there . Why not ?? I love goth guys and for me that would interest me even more , I would like to know that . Maybe you all are going for the wrong type ?? Sometimes I think some ( certainly NOT everyone ) of you purposely go with the wrong type in an effort to curb it IDK.

I totally agree about the projecting here , I see alot of needless self hate here all over the forum and no one can stop that but you. I have NEVER thought anyone was less a man for Cding although you all actually do not behave or feel like us . No one can do that. I cannot FEEL like a man or like you. I don't know what it feels like to be anyone but me .

My Kat was more man than I ever had in my life and he was out 24/7 . He thought he was less of a man too . I was proud of him as a person , it didn't matter what he had on, I could and did trust him, that seems to be a rare thing . I don't think I could do that again, not because of the dressing but of all the deception that appears to go on and I could not talk about gender all the time. I dont want to play dress up or be with anyone who cannot WAIT for me to leave the house so they can dress . If you can live a normal life and dress that's fine . Its not a masculinity percentage issue nor could I give a care about what anyone thinks about me either . Family , friends neighbors etc . I'm not that shallow .

Edit : I am totally cool about those of you needing to stay in the closet so you don't lose your jobs or simply feel its no ones business outside the house .We lived on the west coast but it was too dangerous for me to take Kat home to my hometown in Tx he wanted to go but where I am from I rightfully feared for his/our safety . Nor could he ever be employed at even a fraction of what he once was doing anything like he had before .

[Teresa]

Cathreen,
We struggle with so many demons !

Men possibly have a harder time living with the thought " being less of a man " , we never see the statement of " being less of a woman !" It is hard to come to terms with that , from my personal experience much of this doesn't have a perspective until we find a balance , which in my case meant living fulltime . It doesn't matter if I'm less of a man the important thing is I'm more of a person , the true me . As I now live alone I still need traits of a man but they are overlaid with traits of a woman , I'm possibly a better person for that .

Sometimes I feel that is what our wives/partners have a problem living with , they prevented us from being us , not a crossdresser but a TG person . My wife now knows she made that mistake , she may not have been able to live with a husband who wore women's clothes but when the reason why is revealed she misses the true person I am .

Perhaps it is all to do with projection in our minds because some of us are searching to be at peace and find that balance , sadly we have to live through misleading and lying at times , I'm so glad that is over for me .

[CharlotteCD]

DianeT made a good point, which is that the broken trust is worse than the dressing.

It certainly is in my relationship, where I've broken the trust multiple times due to the secrecy of my binge eating episodes, and the dressing element.

My wife actually said to me last night about how damaging my secret eating is because of the trust, not the eating disorder. It's the same with the dressing, although I think she didn't want to speak about that.

She did at least say that normally women are suspicious of men or have trust broken because of affairs, but all least she is 100% sure that affairs have never been and will never be an issue. She knows me.

[ellbee]

But that begs the question, of how much crossdressing is required, for it to become mandatory confessing to it?

Can we explore this angle a bit more? Because it's certainly an important one, IMO.


I say that, as during my decades of CD'ing, it has *not* been at a constant/consistent level. It has always varied in duration, degree & intensity.

And I doubt I'm the only one like that. ;)


I've gone months & even years without CD'ing, for whatever reason(s). Sometimes all I needed was a pair of black opaque tights -- while other times I've had a huge entire wardrobe costing I don't know how many thousands of dollars. Sometimes it was just to pleasure myself physically -- while other times I was "living the TG life," seriously contemplating transition. All along that spectrum, really.

And yep, also throughout all that? Nothing.


Heck, there were even times where a romantic relationship with a GG was developing. Whoops, time to cut out the CD'ing! And that wasn't necessarily completely voluntary, either... I mean, increased attention is naturally being turned to her, instead. Besides, at the time? You don't want to screw up a good thing, ya know?

Cool! Maybe I'm finally licking this thing, for good? That a GG, the right GG, was "the cure"?? Nope, WRONG! Because it always came back, amidst any given relationship. Ah well, back to the ol' drawing board... :sad:


Also, what's good for someone at age 25, may not necessarily work for them at age 35. And 20 years from then? Who knows!

Keep in mind, that doesn't mean that a CD'er is going to transition somewhere down the road. Odds are, they won't. In fact, their CD'ing may actually taper off to something very minimal & infrequent! So, that aspect of change isn't always necessarily a "bad" thing, in the eyes of an unapproving SO.



Anyway, an observer here may not be able to tell, but plenty of CD'ers can & do struggle internally -- at least for a good chunk of their lives. Contrary to popular opinion, it's not always all rainbows & puppies & glittery pink things. Plenty of angst & confusion, as well as guilt & shame, for example. Many of the regular posters here? Seems that after a long & bloody battle, they've simply come to accept that this is who they are, and that fact is never going away. Others out there? Not quite there just yet -- if ever.

But trust me, it's definitely some psychological torment & torture. Do you know how many times I've purged & "quit," costing me Lord knows how much time, money & effort? Hint: I didn't exactly do that for fun, ya know? :p


Finally? Plenty of us, perhaps at least at one time or another, probably (erroneously) viewed this as some sort of personal weakness. Strong "manly men" simply don't do this, right? And you know what? Oftentimes a man doesn't want to appear weak & unsure of himself, in front of others. You know, kinda like how a cat will hide when it's sick... Natural instinct for self-preservation, is all. :rc:

[Teresa]

Ellbee,
The fear is we might be considered " weak men " , I'm not sure if I like the analogy of , " It takes balls to do what you do !" but we know the meaning . People have said you are brave or courageous even my wife .

I did my bit as a man with no regrets now I've found the strength to do it as a TG female and I do believe it takes strength to continually do it until it becomes normal and natural , that is when you are truly being honest with yourself and everyone else and thankfully the lies are behind you and that applies to both husband and wife in that relationship .

[ReineD]

Late to this but I'll chime in.

Re the reasons for lying or not disclosing: fear, shame, convenience, etc. This is understandable and all well and good. No one asks CDers to shout it from the rooftops and tell coworkers, friends, neighbors, extended family, even kids maybe. But a relationship with a wife is like none other. Wives deserve the truth.

Over the years, I've read some CDers say that their wives have kept secrets from them, and so why should they disclose "private" things. I just want to say that I would not want to be in a relationship based on lies. I want my SO to know exactly who I am, and I expect the same.

[kimdl93]

I have employed all the usual justifications for hiding and/or denying this part of myself. It seems that one of my many character flaws is being willing to lie as needed to preserve or at least maintain plausible deniability about my secret.

It is also true that over time, I have found increasing stress and difficulty in maintaining the interlocking networking of lies I have told over the years. And as noted earlier, such dishonesty has resulted in irretrievably lost trust from the loved ones closest to me.

[kellyanne]

I stayed single to avoid the issue, in university, my GF - a lady who self identified as extremely liberal - was in fact extremely conservative in gender role expectations.

For good or ill, to her mind, she loses a great advantage of " special treatment" if gender roles are mixed.

It was obvious crossdressing could not be part be a part of the relationship - that was my last GF 30 years ago.

It seemed like nothing but trouble would result were I to be who I am in any relationship with a woman.


I have enjoyed the company of many Ladies while dressed and with rare exception, all the Ladies I met in human relations services had no issue with it and many would bring me panties or other items of clothing.

I knew I could only be who I am and I am a a transgendered man. Marriage or a long term relationship I did not see as viable options

I reasoned early ,as a naturally happy go lucky person, that a predictable , happy contented life alone as a TG would be more probable than a stable happy marriage given my disposition .

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Di :hugs:, Guilt probably has a lot to do with it, >Orchid**O:daydreaming:O**

[Sometimes Steffi]

I lied to my wife before we got married. But, it was a lie of omission, not commission.

I thought (or maybe hoped) that this crossdressing was a fetish and I'd be cured once I got married and could have all the sex that I ever wanted. Year right! But in a sense, she lied also. She didn't tell me that I wasn't going to get all the sex that I ever wanted.

Even Steven, right?

Not quite. She's told me several times that had she know, she never would have married me. Had I known, I would still have married her.