Helping out an oblivious wife (AKA The positives of marrying a CD'er)

[CharlotteCD]

(Background, we're in DADT, she's never seen me dressed, and possibly doesn't know about my wig)

I was sat with my wife as she was doing hair and makeup at her (secretly our!) dressing table. She was complaining about the condition of her hair, which has lost some of the pregnancy volume and is, in her words, thin and lifeless.

She didn't want to just scrap her hair back, and I suggested a way of parting the hair, and then pulling the sides back to keep them out of her face. Hard to explain to be honest, so I just did it for her.

She didn't appear to think anything of how I would know to style long hair.



I can't be alone in helping out an oblivious SO. It's funny to me how she doesn't like that I am on the trans spectrum, and yet benefits from it more often than she realises.

[Crissy 107]

Just another good reason for our wives to appreciate us. I have tried to give my wife advice on nails, something I have enjoyed learning about, but she just ignores me so far. Oh well

[Beverley Sims]

Keep working on your wife like that and maybe she will eventually come around to your way of thinking.

A little psychology always helps.

[Krisi]

My wife was complaining about how our hairdresser doesn't do her hair the way she likes it. I found her taking a photo of my wig on the stand to show the hairdresser.

[GretchenM]

Back around 18 years ago there was a study done on the effect of the gender behaviors of a husband on the happiness of the wife. Not really a transgender study, but just a study to see what combination of gender forms make for the happiest relationship from the standpoint of the woman. Lots of couples carefully examined.

They found that the happiest wives were those married to men who definitely leaned a bit toward the feminine side. Some women expressed a feeling that their husband can be quite a bit more like me than the "typical" man.

It is also interesting that they found the least happy wives were those who were strongly feminine and married to men who were very strongly masculine. Those women feel confined, subordinate, even enslaved in the marriage. "All that matters is what my husband wants." kind of sensation.

The study did not include couples where the male is clearly transgender - or at least that was not identified even though some of the men in the "happy wives" group may have been gender variant. As we can see, acceptance of that much femininity in the husband is very challenging for most women. Perhaps a move in the right direction that goes too far for many women.

So, keep those helpful things going, Charlotte, but be careful to watch the reactions carefully to see if your wife gets a bit uncomfortable with some things that you do. Those are at or maybe a bit beyond her limit and your behavior makes her dysphoric.

[Stephanie47]

I my old profession before retiring I'd encounter many business women who were divorced. The common complaint was the lack of attention from their ex-husbands. The guys were either off with other guys doing guy things and spending money tricking out their cars and trucks while the wives wiped baby butts. Too many guys are interested in nothing more than a sex object. I don't know about "leaning toward the feminine side." It can be nothing more than being raised/influenced to show respect and interest in his or her spouse. I wrote a condolence letter not too long ago (unfortunately) to the widow of one of my cousins. She did not know me from a hole in the ground. Never met me. I told her of many instances of growing up and playing with her husband and his brothers. The oldest of my cousins read the letter. He said in the south where he has lived for decades the sort of letter I wrote would be called "light" as in the sort of condolence letter a woman would write. I thought about that description. All I could think of as a retort is how many guys would be incapable of writing those words either because those words could not flow from their minds or thought someone would think he was effeminate. Sad in my book.

[abby054]

Be careful. I gave some fashion advice to my daughter. She liked the advice and acted on it. When my wife saw the results some time later, she was likewise pleased until my daughter told her where the advice came from. I got a reaction from my wife similar to what I might expect if I poked a badger. Do be careful, even indirectly.

[Leslie Langford]

Back around 18 years ago there was a study done on the effect of the gender behaviors of a husband on the happiness of the wife. Not really a transgender study, but just a study to see what combination of gender forms make for the happiest relationship from the standpoint of the woman. Lots of couples carefully examined.

They found that the happiest wives were those married to men who definitely leaned a bit toward the feminine side. Some women expressed a feeling that their husband can be quite a bit more like me than the "typical" man.

It is also interesting that they found the least happy wives were those who were strongly feminine and married to men who were very strongly masculine. Those women feel confined, subordinate, even enslaved in the marriage. "All that matters is what my husband wants." kind of sensation.

The study did not include couples where the male is clearly transgender - or at least that was not identified even though some of the men in the "happy wives" group may have been gender variant. As we can see, acceptance of that much femininity in the husband is very challenging for most women. Perhaps a move in the right direction that goes too far for many women.

So, keep those helpful things going, Charlotte, but be careful to watch the reactions carefully to see if your wife gets a bit uncomfortable with some things that you do. Those are at or maybe a bit beyond her limit and your behavior makes her dysphoric.

Good points, Gretchen, but I believe that socialization has a lot to do with it, too. Women of our early "Boomer" generation were fed a steady diet of what a "real" man should be, and they readily bought into it. The fact that their fathers also belonged to a generation that fought in the life-and-death struggle known as World War II where there was no room for (or tolerance of) "sissies" (remember the term 4-Flusher?) undoubtedly helped shape that rigid viewpoint.

Younger women today are far more tolerant of gender diversity, which seems to have gone hand-in-hand with the women's liberation movement that started in the 1960's. It is not uncommon for women these days to have a gay BFF with whom they can discuss "girly" things without having to fear being "hit on", subordinated, judged, or de-valued (Exhibit A: Hairdressers; Exhibit B: Interior Decorators; Exhibit C: Fashion Designers)...in other words, getting assistance of the type that Charlotte alludes to.

The day may yet come when all of our wives and SO's come to the realization that when they have a transgender partner, they can actually benefit from the best of both worlds, i.e. having a "girlfriend" and a "boyfriend" all rolled up into one. We can only hope. Right now, there is still a lot of NIMBY-ism going on when it come to this matter.

[DianeT]

To Leslie: NIMBY is inadequately used here, since there is no hypocrisy involved. Being accepting of crossdressers doesn't mean that you want one in your couple. I have no problem with people who like metal (I actually love you folks) but don't want to hear it in my house from dawn to sunset so I won't marry one. Wives would do NIMBY if they advocated for having a CDer at home but didn't want it for themselves. But that's not what they do.

To Charlotte: if a wife doesn't like the prospect of CDing or transitioning, I am afraid the upsides of benefiting from tips like how to tie her hair may not matter much compared to the inconveniences and major challenges she may be facing. There is a possibility that the last sentence of your post is disconnected from her reality.

[char GG]

From a GG's perspective who didn't know their SO was a CDer when dating/married/(in my case, many years after we were married), you have to remember that if your wives didn't know about CDing when they married you - they married for qualities that didn't involve what are mentioned here as superficial "female topics - hair, fashion, etc". We married men who shared our views, ideas, and interests. I had girlfriends in middle school to talk to about hair and fashion. As an adult, I don't need someone to discuss hair and fashion. My point is, many wives most likely wanted to share their lives with the man they married, not the CDer's idea of what kind of a girlfriend they could be to their wives. Personally, I have many girlfriends, but only one husband. Although my husband is a CDer, we still share the same non-gender specific topic talks that we always have.

No matter how much you feel your feminine side, it may be different from your SO's point of view.

[docrobbysherry]

The stereo type is that fem women r attracted to very masculine men, "jerks".

From my experience that's been true. It's only after women mature some after a few brutal relationships with manly men that they began to appreciate me a bit more!:tongueout

[Dutchess]

I will second every thing Char said .
As for some of the other comments , I have never EVER liked manly men and I know plenty of others that don't like he man brutes either .I was born 1962 and all my fellas have to have very long hair and piercings and some ink and wear unusual clothes , like me ..

However .. there is a difference in liking more androgynous /sensitive/open minded men like I do and liking a man who thinks or is convinced that he is actually a woman ...big difference.
When I marry I don't need a GF . I don't even want one ,I have enough .I am looking for a companion of the same mindset as myself and lover. I am straight and don't need to talk about hair , make up or fashion.

I might be missing something here but I have had really supreme male hairdressers throughout my life . Gay , straight , whatever but male folk who present lavishly male . Being able to do hair is not a trans /CD talent . Men of all persuasions can do hair very well .

[Lori Ann Westlake]

I've certainly found that common interests, outlook and values with my wife have made our marriage go smoothly and enjoyably. Apart from that, I'd say it's a question of emotional sensitivity and attention to feelings. It seems that's a lack many women complain of, especially with the more "macho" type of husband.

[Teresa]

I have to agree with Char if I discussed makeup , hair or clothes my wife would have probably told me to mind my own business and " What do men know about those things !!" She was from a farming family which makes the point about upbringing . I even received that attitude from decorating and furnishing our home .

Although she would ask me what I thought sometimes when we were out shopping for her clothes . Obviously it all changed when I came out to her , I would be almost dragged past the women's section in shops and pointed towards the male department .

I feel now she appreciates I do understand and know about clothing etc. , she may have only seen me once but she questions my daughter all the time about how I looked

[lingerieLiz]

Hmmm! maybe I was ahead of times. I've shopped with women for many years. I was the girls protection, but I also shopped with them as we went from store to store. I bought some of the same clothes from lingerie to blouses. At one of the stores the SA was shocked that I knew bra sizes and could recommend another style.

[ReineD]

She didn't want to just scrap her hair back, and I suggested a way of parting the hair, and then pulling the sides back to keep them out of her face. Hard to explain to be honest, so I just did it for her.

She didn't appear to think anything of how I would know to style long hair.

Over the years when I've complained to my ex-husband and now my current SO about one or another aspect of my looks - bad hair day, ugly knees, outfit not looking right, etc, etc, etc, (and lately my weight gain :p), although it's OK to get advice on how to "fix" these things, what I'm really looking for is to be told by my SO that he thinks I am beautiful! I know how tempting it is for a husband to fix things, but a wife just wants to hear that he is into her just the way she is.

I agree with Char - I'm not looking for a girlfriend in my SO. If I really need advice about my hair, knees, outfit or whatever, I'd google stuff. Or if it was a recurring problem, I'd discuss it with a hairdresser or other appropriate person. If I wanted emotional support for feeling persistently bad about my looks, THEN I'd talk to a girlfriend. But from my husband? I don't want to hear how I can "make myself better". I want to know that he thinks I am great! :)

Does this make sense?

I need to add though, that I love shopping for an outfit with my SO (and my ex at the time), because I wanted to buy things they thought me attractive in. What woman doesn't want to see the light of appreciation in her SO's eyes when she is choosing a new outfit. But this is different than getting fashion advice. It's all about knowing that her SO appreciates the way she looks.

[Teresa]

Reine,
That aspect is often hard for a husband to deal with , I know my wife had hangups about parts of her figure , I would guess many women do but trying to put that right is so difficult . Men can be insensitive at times and not realise making someone feel great or special is all it takes . I would love to be a girlfriend to a woman but as you say a woman can get that suport from outside a close relationship . I've come to the conclusion that just having good friends is as close as I will probably get , meeting up with someone , enjoy a coffee and do some shopping , tell each other you look great when you try something on . I know I've said I can't wear something because .... then a friend or SA may assure you .

I recall shopping in a large out of town store , they were running a warehouse clearance sale and I became caught up in a group of women who had organised a coach trip . The comments that passed between the women was quite revealing and very amusing at times . I was joined by one of them , she kept telling me to buy things because they would look great on me . Eventually I asked , " What about you ? " she replied , " I'm enjoying shopping for you because at 4' 11 " none of this stuff is going to fit me , I accept my lot and look foward to having my coffee after and hearing the other girls talk about their outfits " . I couldn't help it I had to give her a hug !!

[confused_cathreen]

This was an interesting thread. Let's turn the question on it's head: how appreciative and thankful would you be if your wife started wearing a prosthetic penis and therefore, she would be up to giving you advice on what trousers feel good because they can accomodate your package comfortably? Or what sort of male underwear you can buy that would fit you better? Then you could have a dude and wife in one package, wouldn't that be neat?
Let me add my voice to the other ladies here who said we don't need any more female friends. Which is funny bearing in mind your idea of female relationships centering around discussing non-sense like hair styles, clothes and make-up actually happen so rarely in our interactions, that they are virtually non-existent. Now if a male partner could be emotionally available like my girlfriends can be, and be willing to invest time and effort in maintaining our relationship, then it would be considered a positive. Did anyone say that emotional maturity is tied up to having an opinion about skirt lengths? Because I must have missed that memo. These are the things I consider positives in having a male partner, not whether he knows what Lancome is. Otherwise, I would rather be single with girlfriends to go out with (one day soon again!) and have a laugh, support eachother through whatever difficulties we might be going through and whine endlessly about work or our kids. THIS is what a girlfriend means to a woman. And that doesn't come with any strings attached.

[CharlotteCD]

Wow, way to read into my character from one post and make judgements.

I'll speak for me personally, which is that I'm not trying to be a girlfriend. I'm not trying to be any kind of female companion to her. I am HER HUSBAND, and I am (and always will be) trying to be the best husband I can be.

We married because I provide her with what she wants in a HUSBAND. Whether she realises that I come with extra benefits is immaterial. I will never try to be something to her that I am not.

I'm sorry that you feel it is otherwise.

[Sidney]

I dont post or comment on post often and the reason is what Charlotte just wrote. It was a cute moment but some people just have to twist things around.

[confused_cathreen]

Wow, way to read into my character from one post and make judgements.

I'll speak for me personally, which is that I'm not trying to be a girlfriend. I'm not trying to be any kind of female companion to her. I am HER HUSBAND, and I am (and always will be) trying to be the best husband I can be.

We married because I provide her with what she wants in a HUSBAND. Whether she realises that I come with extra benefits is immaterial. I will never try to be something to her that I am not.

I'm sorry that you feel it is otherwise.

My answer was not refering to you specifically. I made no assumptions or judgements. It could have come from anyone. The answer from the GGs was "we have girlfriends, we don't need any more. And we don't marry/ have bfs because we are lacking girlfriends". There really is not a gap in a modern woman's life that can be filled by a partner who crossdresses or some help he could ever provide that would make it as ,in your words, an "extra benefit". A woman that wants to know how to do her hair will figure it out either on her own or with the help of a professional. If she wants to find a new style of clothes, there are people getting paid to give her options to try. Or a girlfriend who will give her an honest assessment, if she needs a second opinion. Reine said it well, we would ask our partner of his opinion only if we are interested in how we look to HIM.
I had no intention to offend you but if you took it personally, so be it.

[Stephanie47]

I can't be alone in helping out an oblivious SO. It's funny to me how she doesn't like that I am on the trans spectrum, and yet benefits from it more often than she realizes.

I think in your post you threw the subject out for discussion. That's what happened. You got comments and opinions on the subject, especially from the GG's on this forum. I did not take any of the comments to be personal.

[Pumped]

You all can say what you want. I think the whole relationship is simpler than many would like to think. All I know is my wife wants my attention, just about any way she can get it. She wants to know I find her attractive and enjoy being with her. She is my best friend in the whole world and I don't know one other person that comes close.

That said, I believe that is what helped her accept my CD'ing. I can't help but believe that many couples that have relationship problems don't know how, or won't give their SO proper attention.

My wife and I have been married 38 years and we still cuddle on the couch while watching TV. We still snuggle in bed and I often wake up with her wrapped up against me and vice versa. We kiss and hold hands in public. People have accused us of being newlyweds.

I buy clothing for my wife fairly often, from trashy stuff to just nice everyday wear. She loves it when I give her a package of something I found for her. We go shopping for each other all the time. She asks my opinion on clothing, hair style and makeup.
she was looking for a few pairs of blue jeans a while back and didn't find anything she liked. I hopped on line and ordered her four pairs of various styles. When they showed up she was mildly surprised and loved all of them. She gets a kick out of it that I know her sizes. I even bought her a few bras and panties when she mentioned she needed some new ones, they all fit.

When we go out on a date she will ask me about her hair and makeup, something quick and simple, or a bit sultry, heavy date night style.

So girls, just pay attention to your SO, she will love you for it!

[Dutchess]

I would ( pay atten ) if mine were not dead OR like my ex husband where I just could not compete with the chasers anymore . I wish it really were that simple to just pay attention, but regardless , its what Stephanie said . The word oblivious really stuck out there to me . I just wouldn't think it was cute ( or beautiful or interesting or any other words I see used here alot) to describe my husband thinking I was oblivious/blind to something like that in our relationship so I was talking actually from an SOs point of view to anyone .

Really the only part that was specific to your situation was my last few lines about male hairdressers . I really do know lots of men very good with hair .
That actually is why I am still here so maybe some of you here wont have to go down such a hard road as me .

[ReineD]

I would guess many women do ...

Not just women! Guys care a great deal about how they look too, especially when they want to impress someone.

I have 3 sons and you should have seen THEM go on about looking right before going out with a female. OMG, the hair had to be just right (one son HATED his cowlick), they fretted about acne, if the favorite shirt was in the dirty wash they'd have a conniption, the sneakers had to be the "cool" kind, and they actually swaggered more when girls were around. :D

And when they got older ... old enough to stop looking like a student and more like a grown up, they would come to me for advice about the right shoes, how slacks (vs jeans) should fit, etc, etc, etc. And I never did stop hearing about that dreadful cowlick. lol. OMG and the bicep curls! Everything to impress the girls! And each one of them stopped obsessing about how they looked (to girls) once they matured and became more confident. Of the three, only one is single now. And he does care more about his looks when he goes out, more so than the other two who are now into well-established relationships.

So no. Women aren't the only ones who have bad hair (or whatever) days.

[Teresa]

Reine,
I must admit you've blown a few cobwebs away and now in hindsight I can say my son was far more particular about those details than my daughter and still is , even married with two young sons . Guess what the eldest grandson is a " chip off the old block " he so much like his father in many endearing and annoying ways !!

[Geena75]

It is interesting how times have changed. I remember one time in my teens I had a taste for brownies, so I found a recipe and set about making them myself. My mom was concerned that I might become some kind of "twinkie." She much preferred me out on the tractor working in the field or working on my vehicle (though not the grime I would pick up along the way). It never stopped me from learning to make things I like. Years later she taught me how to sew.

My two cents about a marriage relationship: In my mind, masculinity is more about being assertive but attentive, and being responsible and caring. There is nothing wrong about doing traditional male things, unless it sacrifices those other qualities that all individuals should have. I take the traditional male role of being the head of the house, but that doesn't mean I am the dictator or tyrant. I love my spouse and could not treat someone I love like that. Plus, if I expect to be the head of the house, I have the responsibility to be worthy of the role. The warping of that setting is a cause of misery, and I have seen it in several generations.

I smile at Charlotte's point. Several times in the last few years I have been tempted to offer suggestions to my spouse on clothes or make-up, but hold back so as not to betray my 'peculiar interest.' On the few occasions I have spoke up (about clothes), she has appreciated it and went with it. I might think she is doing it just to please me, but she definitely has her own mind about such things.

[Pumped]

Every morning my wife asks me about the outfit she has chosen. Do the colors go together, shoes, jewelry and so on. Once in awhile I need to correct something, but she usually knows already. I think she trusts my opinion on clothing more than her own!

[ReineD]

It is interesting how times have changed. I remember one time in my teens I had a taste for brownies, so I found a recipe and set about making them myself. My mom was concerned that I might become some kind of "twinkie."

Yes, they've certainly changed.

For some reason, all three of my sons are FABULOUS in the kitchen. When we get together, we have gourmet-fests! And all the spouses benefit! I couldn't bond with my boys on the sports field, and so cooking was the way to go for me. A big part of any telephone conversation now is the discovery of this new sauce, or that new condiment, or this better way of cooking that ingredient than how we did it before.

It's just awesome. I'm so glad that times have changed. And my youngest is into construction projects like me. We are forever sending each other pics of back yard projects we'd like to do. :)