Military today

[vivian fair]

As a retired military man who joined as a crossdresser and continued all during my career I really wonder what it would be like to serve today. I know it would not be like for "Klinger",able to dress on duty. But to be able to wear lace and nylon under the uniform and not worry if it were to be sighted! I very often wore panties under my uniform and when off duty always under dressed. Then as often as able I dressed fully femme. What I would like to know how it is in todays military. Are their many who do it openly ect. I would like any former or present service members to comment.

[kimdl93]

Its been decades since I served so I cam offer no observations that are relevant to today. Back in the day, I suppose there were a number of people like myself, who thought perhaps we would finish growing up and leave the desire to cross dress behind us. For me, if the circumstances then had been more tolerant of variations in gender expression, my guess is that I would still have been keeping things to myself and hoping for it to go away.

I suspect its entirely different for those who are transsexual and finally have the opportunity to serve while being true to their identities. More power to them.

[Sometimes Steffi]

I have a "CD" friend who in in the USAF. I believe that she transitioned on the job. I haven't seen her in a while, but she posted pics of herself in a USAF women's uniform.

[Stephanie47]

I stepped away to "Google" the question of cross dressing in the military. There is a difference between transgender and cross dressing. Without getting into extensive research I did find an article on Military.com (4/9/2919) indicating in the U S Navy sailors may dress according to their preferred gender when off duty. There are some issues related to being deployed to countries where local laws and customs do not appreciate cross dressers. When I was in the army (1969-1971) to be found to be a cross dresser meant being discharged. Worse, was the fact your DD 214 would have a SPN (Separation Program Number) indicating the cause for separation from the military. The numerical listings often led to negative consequences in civilian life.

[Star01]

I was in from 1969-1973 and there were no women on board ships at that time. I'd venture a guess that if someone was found crossdressing back in those days there was no distinction between gender and sexuality and they'd have been labeled as gay and discharged. A rule referred to as section 8 was a dishonorable discharge they used to apply to gay, crossdressing and transgendered individuals. It was a general "unfit to serve" rule that ruined a lot of lives.

[candykowal]

Yup, you are right Star as I caved into pressure from my father and went into the Navy in the 80's where I learned what it was like to be a guy.
I was longing to be my girly self after my second Med cruise and looked into it but you got a section 8 if you declared you were transgendered, so I stuck it out. When we were back in port, I lived off base and CD'ed at home and around Lynnhaven, Va when not on duty, those last 2 years I was serving.

Vivian, I too wonder what it is like today, so I am subscribing to the thread, good question!
Back before they changed uniforms, I was searching the Army/Navy surplus stores for womens dress whites and blues uniforms with the skirts and caps.
They were what I wanted to wear the whole time I was serving but I was pretty scared to actually walk around presenting as Candice in female uniform.
Can you imagine if a officer or SP asked me for my ID!!!!! EEEEEEEEKKKK!


....my hunt started again but by then I was a size 16 and no fit girl serving in the Navy, was a 16, from what I could tell.
I so loved the dress white uniforms the ladies had with the pencil skirts...I wanted to ROCK that look.... *giggle*

I do believe today Navy uniforms are pretty "Butch" ...no skirts...YUCK! So both genders are about the same. :brolleyes:

[mbmeen12]

Its all about the physical fit test and doing the actual job and properly informing the chain of command. I personally would not show up in a different persona without communication to leadership.

[Stephanie47]

Candy, the U S Navy still has skirts in navy and white. For obvious reasons daily utility uniforms do not include skirts.

[Karren H]

Back before they changed uniforms, I was searching the Army/Navy surplus stores for womens dress whites and blues uniforms with the skirts and caps.
They were what I wanted to wear the whole time I was serving but I was pretty scared to actually walk around presenting as Candice in female uniform.
Can you imagine if a officer or SP asked me for my ID!!!!! EEEEEEEEKKKK!
:


Was listening to Sirius/XM in the car today and The Village Peoples In The Navy came on.... though if you Candy! Lol. I was not in the military (high draft number on 1970)... but also have looked at surplus stores for female military uniforms. Found nothing that would even fit me when I wore a size 10.

[fun4metoo2004]

I served in the U.S. Navy from Aug 77 - Jan 98. the only openly accepted crossdressing was with regard to the Shellback initiation. The WOG Queen contestants were the only ones that you would see. Now, I don't have any idea how it would be.

[Star01]

I was on the flight deck of a carrier in the catapult crew. We wore green shirts, helmets, goggles and hearing protection. There weren?t any women on board ship in those days and top priority on the flight deck was keeping ones head on a swivel and staying alive. Not many girly or any other wandering thoughts when doing that kind of work. Day dreaming about anything could get us killed.

[cdinmd206]

I served on the army from 71 to 74. I spent over 2 years in Germany and had a great time. There were many times when I was wearing a garter belt, stockings and panties under my daily uniform. My then wife did not now I liked wearing lingerie. One day while I was home during the week and she was at work I dressed up as a maid and was in my living room when I realized my land lady was standing out side my picture window. She just smiled at me and when she saw me after that and the wife was not around she would refer to me as Frau which is Mrs in German.

[stefaniec]

I'm currently serving (12 years now) and have been a cd since before I joined. I keep it completely private and separate from what I do. I've met a few other crossdressers who were also in the service over the years, and they too kept it very discreet.

In the military today, being a crossdresser or someone lgbt is tolerated (because they have to) but far from accepted.

[Cass42]

Did my time in the Marines,1997 to 2001.Dressed as Cassie when I was off duty and I was careful not to say anything,It was during when don't ask don't tell was put in place.I was around that were transphobic and a couple wanted to out me.Luckily I met some like me and a couple that felt they were born in the wrong body.One is my friend Samantha whom is a post op transsexual

[josie_S]

I served in the 90s and it was not tolerated at all...that was right around when DADT was the law. That meant that you shouldnt tell so they dont have to ask. And cding (which I was definitely cding then--I wish I still had that body! lol) was the same as being gay for sure. My guess is while the UCMJ has changed, attitudes have not. I can't imagine what my platoon sgt would say if he saw the top of a lacy thong or a bra strap poking out of my BDUs ��

[stefaniec]

I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier...but I just remembered now and it has always been interesting to me on people in the military view crossdressing and lgbt.

During the last couple years I did several tours in southeast Asia, which of course is famous for its nightlife scene. Tons of working girls and lots of ladyboys. Anyway on more than one occasion I'd see one of the guys in our group, who would not consider themselves gay or into crossdressing, nearly fall in love with a ladyboy when we would go out to the drinky bars. And I mean to the point where if we pointed it out they would be like I don't care I saw her first.

So it always stuck with me that while some of these guys arent exactly socially supportive, when they start thinking with their other head then a lot more straight guys are into it than would probably admit openly.

[Jane G]

I'm currently serving (12 years now) and have been a cd since before I joined. I keep it completely private and separate from what I do. I've met a few other crossdressers who were also in the service over the years, and they too kept it very discreet.

In the military today, being a crossdresser or someone lgbt is tolerated (because they have to) but far from accepted.

That is hard to read. I had 10 years in the RN in the 1980's. To read that little has changed for you now, despite all the public hype of how modern and accepting the modern services are, makes me rather sad.

[Pumped]

I am sure the military, at least officially has to turn a blind eye, but other crew members can still make your life miserable if they find out.

[Just Dana]

I did weekends in the '90s. I can't imagine underdressing in uniform!!! I'd have been shaking like a leaf the whole time. Props for those who did!

Dana

[RachelB.]

Living and working near an Air Force base we got a lot of coverage when Trump did his thing. There was one individual interviewed who talked about being able to switch back and forth. One segment had them in male mode and another in female uniform. I wondered if that was common at that time.

[JulieC]

When I served in the Navy I was always jealous of the women and the uniforms they had. I especially liked the dress whites with the skirt. It was very rare for me to ever underdress while on duty. The risk was just too great.

Nowadays, I see a big push on to change women's uniforms to allow them to look like their male counterparts, as an attempt to reduce sexism in the military. My thoughts on that are; have _one_ uniform standard and that's it. Don't specify gender. Just one standard. A service person should be able to wear whatever uniform is available to them in the uniform of the day, regardless of gender. I sure would have preferred showing up in a skirt uniform from time to time had that been available to me. Supposedly reducing sexism by having all service women look like men seems very wrong to me. It's like saying "Hey, if you want to be treated fairly, you have to look like a man!" Seriously?

As others have noted, whether any branch of any service is supposedly accepting of LGBTQ, what actually happens in units doesn't necessarily coincide with what the service mandates. A shipmate of mine was seen going into a gay bar. When he got back to the ship, he was beaten, stripped, hung by his hands from the overhead in engineering, covered in grease, and beaten again. Supposedly the XO never knew. I doubt that.

[Michellebej]

As someone who has just retired from a very long career in the Army I think I can give an insight to modern thinking in the Army.

If you have a Top Secret Security clearance you will be ok as long as you list it. If you don't then you are probably going to be in trouble.

Officially what you do in your own quarters and on your own time is mostly up to you. However; you still have to maintain decorum. For instance a GG soldier could not make side money stripping. Anything a GG can not do, you can not do. Also the military is still a "50s" society. Adultery WILL get you discharged or even time in the stockade. Keep that in mind. While on duty you must maintain the regulation dress and appearance of your birth gender. This has changed a couple of times and will change a few more I'm sure.

Practicality and reality. If you under dress and get caught attitudes will change. Fair or not this is a "Mans" world where masculinty is still prized. If you go to the latrine and someone sees your panties you will almost certainly be the subject of gossip, at best and hazing at worst ( even though that is a crime under the ucmj).

Under Obama you could dress as our inner gender as long as you listed it. However; very shortly after that rule came out it was changed. A number of men came out then and I can tell you that the gossip mills were going strong. I won't say that they were ostrasized but it came very close to that. Naturally the more masculine MOS's were the most intolerant. You had a better chance in a technical unit, such as an IT unit, but there was generally a reason people joined the Army instead of the Airforce where I would bet it is much better to be a TG/CD.

If you are still in, my advice is stay under the radar. While official attitudes have changed, real attitudes have not. I think it is easier to be gay in uniform than to be a CD/TG. People more or less understand "Gay" and lesbians are actually treated very well as most soldiers just think of them as "one of the guys". Gay men are somewhat understood....but no one wants to take a shower with them.

I think that is the big difference. If you are Gay or Lesbian then everyone can find a category for you and move on. CDs are still very much in the dark and it is the "unknown" which causes problems.