Crossdresser or something else?

[Missyathome]

I understand the way I believe to be true crossdressing is a lifestyle,for a day week or how ever long you can..And that it would be relaxing and feel good to just get away from our male sides..
Is getting dressed in panties or negligie for the sexual fetish and then reaching sexual satisfaction and hiding your things until next time considered crossdressing...?Or does it fall under a different heading??Hope the question makes sence...Missy

[Karren H]

According to the rule book - Wearing clothing of the opposite sex no mater what the purpose is technically crossdressing.

[Missyathome]

Thank you Karren.

[Pumped]

I agree. If you wear the clothing intended for the other gender you are crossdressing. Plain and simple, although some people will say they are into fashion and wearing the clothing simply because they like how it looks. IMO, they are in denial.

[MarinaTwelve200]

I go with the "technical" definition of "Cross dressing" (at least the one I grew up with) That a Crossdresser is basically an otherwise "straight male" who is attracted to the wearing of female clothing. I do not think Trans people, those who "identify as female" or Gays fit the crossdresser definition.---Yes, they might also CROSSDRESS, but a crossdresser is a "whole 'nuther kind of animal" ;) with our own set of many different reasons for doing so.

[Teri Ray]

Go with Karren's ruling. I believe she has a copy of the orginal crossdressers rule book. Might even be one of the contributing editors of the book.

[DianeT]

@Marina Curious as to why a gay man could not crossdress?

[kimdl93]

Cross dressing is a behavior. It is not who you are. The motivations/reasons for cross dressing are so varied that its really your choice to apply or not apply any lable.

[Stephanie47]

I have to agree with Karren. Cross dressing only implies wearing the clothing normally associated with the opposite sex. The OP introduces motivation which probably bring forth a discussion of creating a subset, fetish dresser. Karren stated "no matter what the purpose." When my granddaughter raided my closet and took (with permission) my flannel shirts because they are comfortable and it was the current fashion she would fall into a strict definition of cross dressing, but, is she a cross dresser? Or when my daughter bought a pair of male shoes because they were more comfortable than female shoes and a lot less expensive was she a cross dresser? My granddaughter also would buy young men's jeans rather than young women's jeans because they fit better. She was one of those young girls/women who had no hips. In these cases these women may be wearing the clothes of the opposite sex, however, were they cross dressers? Enter the difference in definition between cross dressing and cross dresser.

When I raised the issue several years ago that Pumped stated (#4) it ruffled some feathers/plumage.

[Ressie]

I love Karren's and Kim's answers. One act of cross dressing doesn't make one a crossdresser. When the act is repeated as a habit, that's another thing. There's an amount of how often one cross dresses (whether just one article of clothing or much more) that makes a difference. Every day is nice if possible! Sometimes some of us have to go for months or even years without CDing in order to keep it a secret. :sad:

[Vickie_CDTV]

It is crossdressing by definition. But more accurately that behavior is "transvestic fetishism".

[MarinaTwelve200]

Diane T-----Many Gay men DO crossdress but there is a difference between the ACT of Crossdressing and A CROSSDRESSER (or transvestite). Gays are Homosexual-- attracted to the same sex. and might identify with the opposite sex in some cases. The term "Crossdresser" is to differentiate an otherwise "straight" individual who gets pleasure out of dressing in female clothing. There is a difference. It refers to a person who as a person who does not Cross-dress out of a side adjunct of identity or sexuality. as do most Gays or trans folks. Although it may be possible that a gay might Crossdress for the same reason a straight person would (fetish, S/M, or escapism) not connected to his sexuality.---------------------It's important to make the distinction . Crossdressers do if for entirely different reasons than Gays or Trans. This would be a big factor in psychological counseling or research. First, we must differentiate between the NOUN and the VERB. And second It is an unfortunate terminology in it self that Crossdressers don't have their own term---Yes, "Transvestite" is more clinical but is often associated with a particular KIND of Crossdresser. (Mostly hetero-fetish based). When we discuss such things it is important to define our terms as a LOT of confusion exists when dealing with these once taboo subjects.

[TheHiddenMe]

Definition of cross-dressing: the wearing of clothes designed for the opposite sex

From Merriam-Webster dictionary.

If you wear clothes designed for the opposite sex, by DEFINITION you are a crossdresser. You can be straight, gay, or bi.

Transvestite is synonymous with crossdresser. Trans for opposite and vestige for clothing (Latin).

There are many reasons why people crossdress, and there are SOME negative connotations with the terms crossdresser or transvestite, but the terms themselves are pretty simple.

[MiniRock]

I find this a very interesting question in respect of society and our partners' view of cross dressing. I for one, and perhaps most of us, do it for sexual pleasure. But I suspect many if not most of us would not admit that, either to our SOs or to any other acquaintances with whom we happen to be open about it.

[TexasLegs]

Diane T-----Many Gay men DO crossdress but there is a difference between the ACT of Crossdressing and A CROSSDRESSER (or transvestite). Gays are Homosexual-- attracted to the same sex. and might identify with the opposite sex in some cases. The term "Crossdresser" is to differentiate an otherwise "straight" individual who gets pleasure out of dressing in female clothing.

I don't agree. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with transvestic fetishism. A transvestite can be gay, straight or bi. We actually just had a gay man post that likes panties. He described uncontrollable urges to wear them. He is a gay transvestite.

Crossdresser does not differentiate an "otherwise straight" man at all.


Although it may be possible that a gay might Crossdress for the same reason a straight person would (fetish, S/M, or escapism) not connected to his sexuality.---------------------It's important to make the distinction . Crossdressers do if for entirely different reasons than Gays or Trans.

Unless you're referring to drag performers, who get no sexual satisfaction from dressing, this is not correct. All crossdressers, gay or straight, dress for sexual satisfaction.

Trans do dress for entirely different reasons, I agree. They have gender dysphoria.


And second It is an unfortunate terminology in it self that Crossdressers don't have their own term---Yes, "Transvestite" is more clinical but is often associated with a particular KIND of Crossdresser. (Mostly hetero-fetish based).

Disregarding drag performers and transexuals with gender dysphoria, all crossdressers are transvestites. They all have a fetish. If you disagree, I'd love for you to provide me research describing a type of crossdresser that doesn't do it as a sexual fetish.

[JenniferMBlack]

I think this would fall under the fetish cross dressing. But certainly ot is cross dressing. And to be clear I don't have a problem nor do I wish to shame anyone for what they do. Just my take on the situation. Take it with a grain of salt as they say.

[TheHiddenMe]

Unless you're referring to drag performers, who get no sexual satisfaction from dressing, this is not correct. All crossdressers, gay or straight, dress for sexual satisfaction.

Again, I posted the definition of crossdressing, and NOWHERE does it say it's a fetish. You are 100% wrong. For SOME CDs, there might be a fetish component. For many, there is none. The two are not synonymous.

Drag performers are crossdressers, by definition. It's a very large umbrella. They are wearing the clothing of the opposite gender. And they very well COULD get turned on by dressing.

[Pumped]

Crossdresser does not differentiate an "otherwise straight" man at all.

Unless you're referring to drag performers, who get no sexual satisfaction from dressing, this is not correct. All crossdressers, gay or straight, dress for sexual satisfaction.

I agree that crossdressing doesn't differentiate between gay or straight.

I don't agree with you point that all crossdressers do it for sexual satisfaction. Many dress just because they simply enjoy it.

I dressed this afternoon and had a quiet evening with my wife. After she went to bed I stripped down and now and just lounging around in my undies. I haven't had a sexual thought all evening. Many of us find CD'ing to be comforting. Personally I kind of blur the lines because I can dress just to hang out around the house and other times it turns into a sexual thing. It depends on what I wear and usually I decide what to wear knowing the out come.

[TexasLegs]

Drag performers are crossdressers, by definition. It's a very large umbrella. They are wearing the clothing of the opposite gender. And they very well COULD get turned on by dressing.


How many drag performers have you talked to? I've talked to a 8-10. None of them said they were excited by dressing. One actually told me, "Oooh, breasts are gross."

[DianeT]

@Marina Thanks for your answers. I asked myself the question: if I was gay, what could be my driver for dressing or presenting as a female? When my wife and I were younger and living in the big city we used to have a few gay friends who sometimes crossdressed at parties. The way they described it, it was clearly a sexual game. I did not rate this as crossdressing since it wasn't a personal thing, more games between people. Granted, technically, it was, but in spirit, unless the person would tell me he was doing it also in the privacy of his home as well, it didn't seem to be dressing as we understand it (i.e. a life-defining thing).
I see the posts above and they're talking a lot about the sexual driver. But when I read some members' posts about gay fantasies or actual experiences dressed as a woman, I wonder if we all have the same definition of the sexual driver. Some are aroused by the idea of being dressed as a woman, some by the idea of being one, and some additionally by physically interacting with a male. I suppose all may, or may not, sexually relieve themselves when dressing alone. So, to me, the sexual relief act isn't much of a clue for finding what type of dressing an individual is into. In my own experience, there is always a sexual driver whether I do or or not, the primary driver for the dressing itself being the attraction to the female look, which is satisfied by the simple act of presenting as a woman, and the relief when it occurs being just an erratic byproduct of the relaxation, whether dressed or not.

[docrobbysherry]

TexasLegs: "Disregarding drag performers and transexuals with gender dysphoria, all crossdressers are transvestites. They all have a fetish. If you disagree, I'd love for you to provide me research describing a type of crossdresser that doesn't do it as a sexual fetish."

I disagree, Tex! And I should know. Because I'm a fetish dresser! My dressing has turned me on for nearly 25 years. :o

Yet, I've been out to countless T girl events and venues over the last 12 years. Met 100's of gays, straights, and T's of all types when out. Do u know how many times I've been turned on in all those years when I've been out? ZERO! Nunca, nada, none! Not one sexual thot in all that time!:eek:

I just seem to enjoy socializing while presenting as a female in T friendly public places. If it was still all about sex every time I dressed I'd never go out again!:devil:

[Rachelakld]

Having started crossdressing at the age of 4. I can tell you it was DEFINATELY NOT sexual.
It turned sexual at a normal time in a human males life and dropped away as the testosterone disappeared (quite early in my life), while the crossdressing never faded away.

[SaraLin]

Stephanie, you raise an interesting point in this:


When my granddaughter raided my closet and took (with permission) my flannel shirts because they are comfortable and it was the current fashion she would fall into a strict definition of cross dressing, but, is she a cross dresser? Or when my daughter bought a pair of male shoes because they were more comfortable than female shoes and a lot less expensive was she a cross dresser?

What I'd suggest is this:
Yes, I'd say that technically, they are crossdressing - at least partially, since I doubt they're going to the extent of wearing men's underthings.

But are they crossdressers? I'd like to say that they most likely are not, and I'd like to suggest a modification to the "standard" definition so that it reads something like:

A crossdresser is someone who chooses to wear the clothing associated with a person of the opposite gender because that clothing is associated with the opposite gender

The added words (in bold) are IMO, the the defining difference.
What do y'all think? too wordy?

[GretchenM]

I personally have a problem with the definition of "crossdresser." The definition is good and logical so long as the basic concept of gender is binary. In fact, the concept of gender has drifted far into a spectrum like configuration which tends to lead to a conclusion that gender is not binary. Just saying that such definitions rely on the nature of the basic phenomenon of gender.

I am non-binary and do not see a clear line between male and female gender. To me I see something more like a gradual shift between the two extremes that are at each end of the spectrum where nobody actually lives. Crossdressing is an act of expression and therefore is a verb. But gender is also a verb. It seems to be something that you do and not something that you have which would make it a noun. From there on it can get really complex and sticky. That said, if you wish to follow the definition of crossdresser that is fine - it does not harm anything or any one. I just don't think it is as simple as the given definition makes it out to be. To me the origination of crossderssing behavior must be somewhere in that vast lake of gender variations where boundaries are fuzzy at best. If everybody is different then all definitions must be conditioned on where you draw the line between two things that actually blend into each other which is a logical requirement if everybody is different.

[CynthiaD]

If you say you’re a cross dresser, you are one. Even if you’re a guy who’s never worn a single item of female clothing in his life. If you say you’re not, you’re not. Even if you’re a guy who wears dresses 24/7. If you’re confused and don’t know what to call yourself, that’s ok too. Don’t worry about it.

Me, I’m a cross dresser. I wear skirts and dresses every day, usually all day. I actually prefer the term woman to crossdresser, but it’s just not that important to me. Fetish? No, just my regular clothes.

[CarlaWestin]

Shoot, I've had it wrong all these years.

323430

[Micki_Finn]

Well things get complicated here IMO. According to a LOT of people, what you described is the ?real? definition of crossdressing. A lot of people consider crossdressing specifically the act of dressing in the opposite gender clothes for sexual gratification. Everyone else would be a trans person expressing their gender.
Of course there is going to be a chorus of people here who say ?Wait a minute! I dress to express but Im a crossdresser and NOT trans!?

The bottom line is that most of the vocabulary surrounding our community is currently in transition and flux, so don?t worry too much about the ?proper? terminology because the whole world is still trying to figure that out.

[Missyathome]

I'm amazed at all the responces to my original post..There is obviously more to this lifestyle than I ever imagined..I'm learning a lot reading here and hope to keep learning..Thank you!
Missy

[docrobbysherry]

Well, for starters quite a few crossdressers wouldn't describe what they do as a "lifestyle", Missy!:heehee:

Most that dress out and about often or daily would consider themselves to be trans.:battingeyelashes:

I'll bet I'm one of few here that is a confirmed CD who wraps her life around her dressing!:eek:

[OrdinaryAverageGuy]

Why is the label so important? If you wear a skirt but call it a kilt, maybe you're not crossdressing. If you wear a pink shirt from the men's section but you think it's feminine, maybe you are crossdressing. Seriously, if you're here you know what you're doing, and it's probably crossdressing. And that's ok.

[ShelbyDawn]

... They all have a fetish. If you disagree, I'd love for you to provide me research describing a type of crossdresser that doesn't do it as a sexual fetish.

TexasLegs,

I don't need research. I can just point to myself. I've been crossdresing to some extent for over fifty years and it has never, I repeat NEVER been sexual. If I wanted sexual release, I had old Sears catalogs(some of those old corsets models' were damned hot) or my older brother's Playboy magazines for that. Dressing has always been relaxing, a feeling of normalcy for me.

There are as many reasons men dress as there are men who dress. Even fetish dressers have slight variations on their particular fetish; for some it's stockings, others panties. Some like to dress in latex suits and give the girls in this forum a hard time(Hi DocRob...) :worship:

About the only brush broad enough to paint us all is the one Karen mentioned, we are all people that like to wear clothing generally ascribed to a different gender.

Love all of you, now it's time for ice cream. :)

[donnalee]

There is a factor not mentioned in previous posts.You must be MALE!
Women have been appropriating male clothes for decades, but no one refers to them as crossdressers. They're "tomboys" or "borrowing guy's shirts" etc..

[Crissy 107]

I think ShelbyDawn nailed it.

[VickieBonne]

Recently, my wife says, “They’re just clothes.” So, I’m not sure what I’m doing now?!

[Karren H]

Go with Karren's ruling. I believe she has a copy of the orginal crossdressers rule book. Might even be one of the contributing editors of the book.

Mine is a first edition written so long ago, way before womens jeans were invented! Crossdressing at it purest!

[Aunt Kelly]

Disregarding drag performers and transexuals with gender dysphoria, all crossdressers are transvestites. They all have a fetish. If you disagree, I'd love for you to provide me research describing a type of crossdresser that doesn't do it as a sexual fetish.

That's not how it works. You've made the assertion. Back it up or don't, but you don't get to transfer that burden to others.
I will agree that there are a lot of fetish dressers who won't, or can't, admit to it, but you're going to have to show the proof supporting your assertion.

[ShelbyDawn]

I think ShelbyDawn nailed it.

And the ice cream was quite tasty as well, Blue Bell Cookies and Cream. :)

[XemmaX]

I
don't think it matters much anymore defining yourself as it seems that the definitions are changing.

[Ressie]

Unless you're referring to drag performers, who get no sexual satisfaction from dressing, this is not correct. All crossdressers, gay or straight, dress for sexual satisfaction.

Trans do dress for entirely different reasons, I agree. They have gender dysphoria.


There are also CDs that do it to express themselves as women (in public). Is gender dysphoria only for transexuals? No, there isn't always a dividing line between CDs and transexuals. Each of us have to analyze ours selves to decide where we are on the TG spectrum. And that may change is time goes on!

I've pointed out many times that we are all unique and now you've seen (in answers to this thread) that some don't dress for sexual arousal. In fact, it seems most don't!

[Vale]

Maybe assigning simple labels to people or behaviors is like naming colors. There are some shades most would call green but a lot of shades we might not agree to simply call green. Neither colors nor people can always be described so simply. That is one reason why life is fun.

Cheers,
Vale

[sometimes_miss]

Unless you're referring to drag performers, who get no sexual satisfaction from dressing, this is not correct. All crossdressers, gay or straight, dress for sexual satisfaction.
No, we don't.


I for one, and perhaps most of us, do it for sexual pleasure.

^this is the assumption, made by those who DO do it for sexual pleasure. In order to feel that they are normal, they project their own behavior and feeling onto everyone else, in order to feel that their feelings are the same as the rest of us.


There is a factor not mentioned in previous posts.You must be MALE!
Not true, either. While plenty of women will wear men's clothes, it's not to change what they want their sexuality to display. But a few women WILL wear men's clothing, in order to display that they are masculine. Though not in great numbers, they are out there, most often seen in masculine gay women.


you're going to have to show the proof supporting your assertion.
The problem is, most crossdressers can't tell you why they do it. There's this huge social stigma against men
behaving, feeling or displaying femininity, that few are willing to explore the reasons why they do it. To them, it's just simpler to tell others that they were 'born that way'.


I
don't think it matters much anymore defining yourself as it seems that the definitions are changing.

The definitions aren't changing. But perhaps slowly, over time, more males will be willing to examine why they want to embrace femininity. But it's not going to happen any time soon. We still have a whole lot of men who can't accept that they have feminine feelings, so much so, that they can't even accept it as part off themselves. Look at all of those who have to go to the extreme off creating a fake feminine persona, to assign all those feminine feelings to, to the point where they need to refer to themselves in third person to avoid any connection between themselves and those female feelings.

[Cacique82]

My wife called it crossdressing so I?ll take it. Especially since she?s ok w it.

[alwayshave]

I'm going to agree with Karren's definition.

[Devi SM]

Complete sense.

I personally think it's more than crossdressing.
Crossdressing and the variants of the word is something that no crossdressing people invented to express or explain it but for me, what does it male a man to want and enjoy dressing as a woman? It's not a life style, it's not a hobby. There's something deepnthere in you brain but deep rooted norms of historic society rules had written and we try to explain the inexplicable.

Fore is just trans people in its wide variety of possibilities.

The sexual component is just the testosterone in your body confusing you gender with sexual preference. Without testosterone, so after taking testosterone blockers as part of the so called HRT the brain feels free of that poison called testosterone and can see and feel things different and the sexual ingredient lose its power and let pass the real identity.

Mho.

Devi

[Aunt Kelly]

The problem is, most crossdressers can't tell you why they do it. There's this huge social stigma against men
behaving, feeling or displaying femininity, that few are willing to explore the reasons why they do it. To them, it's just simpler to tell others that they were 'born that way'.


Not argument. I'm fine with that reality. It's the assertion that it's all fetish driven that I am challenging.

[Judy-Somthing]

I agree.

[LilSissyStevie]

Why can't you be a crossdresser AND something else? I'm reminded of that old 50's Eddie Cochran tune "Something Else." The first verse goes:

A look a-there, here she comes
There comes that girl again
Wanted to date her since I don't know when
But she don't notice me when I pass
She goes with all the guys from outa my class
But that can't stop me from a-thinkin' to myself
She's sure fine-lookin' man, she's something else

[Jessica Secret]

As a wearer of beautiful/romantic sleepwear & lingerie there is definitely a sexual component to it but I don't consider it to be a "fetish", fetish makes it sound dirty imo. I love getting ready for bed every night in my lingerie and I feel it's a part of who I am, not simply a kinky fetish.

[crobeson96]

Drag performers are crossdressers, by definition. It's a very large umbrella. They are wearing the clothing of the opposite gender. And they very well COULD get turned on by dressing.

I looked it up in the Wiki - Drag performers are crossdressing but they are not cross dressers. A cross dresser wears clothing of the opposite sex BECAUSE it is of the opposite sex (not because it is their job).
Except some drag performers might really, really enjoy their job.

[CeCe]

A crossdresser is someone who chooses to wear the clothing associated with a person of the opposite gender because that clothing is associated with the opposite gender

Greetings, everyone. I like the definition above most of all. Yes, to me, a teenage girl wearing her dad's flannel shirt is not crossdressing (verb) or a crossdresser (noun), but a man who wears a bra and stockings because he is attracted to women's underwear is crossdressing. If this is a repetitious act, then he is a crossdresser.

I very seldom wear women's underwear or outerwear, but it does happen and I do have a small collection for when the temptation arises, so I am an occasional crossdresser. I have a beard and I do not try to imitate a woman's look or behavior, so I am not really "presenting as the opposite gender." I do not believe "presentation" needs to be a part of the definition of crossdressing.

Let us consider the subcategory of underdresser. This would be a man presenting as male to the world but perhaps wearing women's lingerie underneath the male drab. While I am drawn to wearing women's clothing, especially underwear, I have no interest in wearing a dress in public, so I may wear only women's underwear under my male clothing. Dresses I wear only while home alone, presenting to no one but the guy in the mirror.

Sexual orientation is also not a factor. I used to identify as bisexual, but I have not been with a woman in a few decades so I now identify more as gay. I am a very masculine man and am perfectly comfortable feeling and acting masculine while crossdressing.

Lastly, I keep seeing the word "fetish" in this thread and I am not comfortable with it. To me, I perhaps prefer the word "kink," which to me implies that the crossdressing is enjoyable but not required for sexual satisfaction.

CeCe