Is Cross-Dressing dressing as a woman or using software to look as a woman?

[Judy-Somthing]

Wow, it takes me close to an hour to put on makeup to look half fem but, it's me! I feel that's what CD-ing is.
Using FaceApp, why bother putting up posts, Sorry
It's like having someone taking your school exams.

Wow you look great, Not!

How about a little more effort!

[DanielleDubois]

I'm with you 100% on this. FaceApp can be fun, I've tried it, and there are people here who are up front about using it when they haven't had time to do makeup and want to post photos of new outfits. Nothing wrong with that but when you use it and pretend it's really you and accept a bunch of compliments that's in my opinion simply being deceptive. Thankfully those people are relatively rare on this forum but on places like Flickr I have seen many individuals who post entirely FaceApp or photoshopped images as true representations of what they look like in person. I often wonder if they realise they are only fooling themselves.

[CharlotteCD]

There's no difference between acting as if you're the person on FaceApp and that you act as if you're actually Lara Croft and play Tomb Raider.

Simple fact is, it's fake. The makeup filter is not just makeup, it adjusts the angles of all of your features, like lifting your eyes and brows etc. Real makeup can change your features, but it can't physically alter your face like FaceApp does.

I also think it's really bad for dysphoria and self image.

[DianeT]

I have mixed feelings about this. I personally don't mind people using FaceApp as long as they don't try to pretend otherwise. But when 90% of the members will become Victoria Secret models in the pictures they post, the FaceApp-unaware minority will think they're really bad at the game and get very frustrated and depressed, so, yes, using FaceApp and not mentioning it can be cruel to some extent.
The other problem with FaceApp is that members using it all have the same, generic, stereotyped female face (chances are that the AI network was trained on Instagram selfies), so looking at the avatars I may sometimes get the weird feeling of being in a Frank Oz movie from 2004 :)

[Helen_Highwater]

This is a conversation that's been held several times before.

I understand why folks do it but I do believe that if used, any pictures posted should say so. Why? Because there will be those here who unaware they're seeing an altered image will think I'll never look that good, better stay indoors.

In order to help others spread their wings, to gain the confidence to follow others out into the wide world, they need to know that you don't need to look magazine cover perfect.

With practice it's possible to achieve amazing transformations with a bit of foundation, lippy and eye shadow, just look in the Boy v Girl section. Seeing Mr. Manly transform into Miss Lovely just using brushes and powder is a far more truthful way to show just what all of us are capable of and a better way to help our sisters here looking to take their CD'ing further.

[SaraLin]

Things like Faceapp can be fun to play with, as long as you remember that it's all in the realm of "let's pretend" and not trying to make yourself or others think it's real.

I've played with it a little, and I'll admit I liked the results, but CharlotteCD had it right when she said:


I also think it's really bad for dysphoria and self image.

I know it was for me. The first time I saw the "after" pictures, I had to fight off a bad case of the "why can't I REALLY look like that????" blues. I even started to wonder if, with enough money, maybe the doctors out there could achieve that look for me.

Fortunately, sanity prevailed and I had to admit that fantasy is fun, but it's just that - FANTASY!

[Connie D50]

I wounder myself about faceapp is it wrong ? I mean I have to add make up. breast forms, wig and sometimes hip pads and corset for my pictures. If I could spary somethng on my face to make it look more femme i would. Everyday I come to this site to look at the picture and the open forum section to help me get better at my persentation. So I always wounder is the picture faceapp or not, I could never get my make up skills to look like the girls that use faceapp.

[Kimberly A.]

Judy, I agree 100%..... When y'all my pics, it's 100% ME. I did use FaceApp once and if memory serves, I posted the pic that I got from the result. When I took the pic that I ran through FaceApp, I was already en femme and had my makeup done. And the woman that came out of the FaceApp results, looked a LOT better than what I can do on my own and in all honesty, I only wish that I could make myself that pretty without the use of FaceApp! LOL

But other than that one picture, I've never used FaceApp, then posted the resulted pics. What everyone sees in my pics is the way I dolled myself up and the result of after I'd done my makeup and gotten dressed, NO use of FaceApp, or Photo Shop, or whatever else is out out there. The only editing to my pics that I do, I enhance them a little bit and I crop out a lot of the background.

But, no judgment from me to the folks here who do use FaceApp.... I mean, if that's what they wanna do, let them do it, to each her own I say. LOL

[Karren H]

People have been using software to enhance their photos since computers were invented. Now it is just a lot easier. I do not think I would ever trust anyone?s photo, except mine! Lol. It a few of my photos were photoshopped by a friend online a few years ago. She did an amazing job but you can tell which ones vs the thousands of real photos I have posted out there. If FaceApp were free and not controlled by a foreign company I would probably use it too! Not getting any younger ya know. Makeup is just old school FaceApp! And I am not going to bash someone for using it as I will not bashing Sherry for using a mask. We all just want to look prettier than we are.

[Julie MA]

How each of us defines, and practices, CDing is up to the individual. But, I do appreciate when someone states they used the apps. I have used them, and wow what a difference. I have never posted one of those augmented photos though.

[kimdl93]

I get it, and yet I don’t. The part I get is wanting to create the most feminine and attractive appearance possible for oneself, and maybe using photos to capture the most convincing perspective and lighting possible. Its a matter of degree to further enhance the pictures iwth an ap.

I don’t quite understand why some someone posts a heavily Face-app’d picture and asks if they passed.

[Jolene Robertson]

I agree it is so deceiving, I used to never alter my pictures other than lighting. But I must admit that now that time has caught up with me I (just started playing with it and haven't posted any of them yet) might alter my face a bit to blur some of my wrinkles out. I have not been able to get rid of them with make up "yet" but working on it. I really don't like seeing the "face app" all the time.

[JustJennifer]

I agree with CharlotteCD that using FaceApp and similar stuff is not only kind of a cheat, but it's also a terribly unhelpful trigger for increasing one's dysphoria. One can develop makeup skills, but not even the greatest plastic surgeon on Earth can do what those filters do to one's face, like relocating and enlarging eyes. Factor in the ability shave decades off one's face, and it's a recipe for misery.

But I do get that for a lot of people, especially the younger ones today, these apps are probably their first introduction to what they might look like as a different gender. It's starting off with incredibly strong medicine -- far removed from the furtive first-attempts with makeup that most of us experienced. I wouldn't want to shame people for exploring the easiest (and perhaps only) path available, but it's setting up impossible expectations.

[GretchenM]

Great thread, Judy. I agree with you and others that using a tool like FaceApp or even doing a lot of touch up of a photo using editing tools in Photoshop can be deceptive. It modifies the face in a way that cannot happen in nature because the underlying bone structure limits the changes that are really possible. That said, a good makeup artist can do some incredible things in producing illusions. The computer versions makes changes as if your face is a hunk of clay that can just be dealt with like a sculptor.

I suppose my own big question is whether anybody has taken a print of them after FaceApp has created an image and tried to recreate that look on your real face? I suspect it is possible to get an approximation, but a more careful look at the result will show you failed. I wonder if a professional makeup artist could duplicate the look? So, perhaps FaceApp and the like may still be a bit useful in that it gives us some ideas that might work in specific areas.

Judy is clearly very good at makeup; even masterful. I have always admired her talent. But here is an experiment. So, Judy, have you ever taken a photo of yourself with your best, self-done makeup which is almost always quite passable as a female and run that through FaceApp to see how much FaceApp changes your best makeup job? Would FaceApp change it a little or a lot?

[Ressie]

I haven't tried face app. I simply go thru photos and pick those that turned out the best. I always crop photos and usually do a bit of color correction. I took a photoshop class long ago so I do more if I wanted like putting my face on a voluptuous body. :daydreaming: FaceApp would be easier I'm sure!

[MarinaTwelve200]

Yes, I think those of us who would dare to put up a "modified" picture of their face, without telling us it is a "face App" tend to demean the results of our own real makeup work, which we may take pride in.-------Saying that I will admit to using the Snapchat App as a TOOL to copy a celebrity's makeup style I like. THIS app looks sorta like a "rubber mask" of HER stretched across the contours of my face. I can take a picture of her and put it OVER a picture of my own without makeup-----THEN I can use the resultant image to copy putting similar real makeup on MY real face. And sometimes, using the right celebrity's Pic, I can achieve a definite resemblance----I was particular successful with Sophia Loren. While not looking exactly like her, but definitely related. I wouldn't try to pass off the modified Picture off as myself, but the RL photo using my own makeup skills I am quite proud of.

[Sandi Beech]

I have never used face app. I already have a desire to have an eyelid and or face lift to try to improve my looks. Seeing an altered version of myself would just exaggerate the disconnect between what I really look like vs what I desire to look.

Besides faceapp will not do anything to help me out in the real world - the bar and club scene that is, which is my thing ; )

Sandi

[ronny0]

Personally I see some shots that IMO face app is not needed. Still others the image has changed so drastic.
I'd rather people use it less, but we might also consider face app vs forms & padding......
Although forms & padding are real world, while face app isn't something that can be used out in public.
I guess it is a fun 'tool' that now many are becoming addicted too.

[Geena75]

Is using digital apps cross dressing? I suppose it depends on the individual. If someone dresses up and feels they look awful (eye of the beholder and all) but then use a app to change their look and are then satisfied, even to the point of believing they look like that, it may be cross dressing (they are dressed, after all) but it isn't a good thing. They are basically lying to themselves, and possibly others. If they feel they look acceptable, but use the app to see how to look better and use it as a guide, they are cross dressing. Unless they are trying to pass themselves off as the enhanced look, no harm done. There may be some, like myself, who aren't in a position to fully transform their look and want to know what they could look like, again, no harm done. I look at it as a source of encouragement, and have shared a couple examples. For the most part, the enhancements are beyond what I could actually do, and I disregard them.

I get concerned about a certain elitism that may be felt on the site. The notion that you have to all out dress and make up to be a cross dresser may be setting the bar too high. I often felt second rate for not showing my face or head, but wanting to share how I enjoyed the look I managed. If a little technical trickery would let me feel more included, no problem, as long as I was open about it. For someone completely closeted, never going out, is there really a problem?

I'm amused by the idea that the app is a fantasy, rather than reality. For me, cross dressing is a fantasy from the ground up. It isn't really who I am, just someone I have fun pretending to be. I do often photo shop myself onto a backdrop to make a better picture of it -- is that a violation? I just want to make a nice pic, not deceive people to think I get out like that.

[NancySue]

I?ve never even thought about using face app, even out of curiosity. I enjoy putting on my own moisturizer and makeup. We all know you have good days and bad days, but it?s so enjoyable.

[Jenn A116]

For me, Face App is a time and effort saver. I love the feel of women's clothes on my body. I love the bounce of boobs. The swish of a skirt. The tap of heels. But I don't love spending time doing my makeup only to have to take it off a few hours later.

[Stephanie47]

I totally agree using FaceApp may be deceiving if the usage of it is not stated. Full disclosure, please. I am an in-home cross dresser who is 74 years old. That makes me a "grandma" as well as the grandpa I am. Not too many grandmas are going to enter a beauty pageant when at an advanced age. Basically, I do not wear makeup any more at home, and, very little if I am going to take an evening stroll. The only reason I even put any makeup on is the feminine scent of the makeup. Anyway, it's nice when using FaceApp that the fact is disclosed. However, if not disclosed it really does not bother me. Having lived 74 years I am well aware many people say they did this or that, when they really haven't done crap.

This topic makes me chuckle about similar happenings in the past. Decades ago my family went to Olin Mills to have a family picture taken. We were explicit that we only wanted a neutral color background. Nothing else. What was thrown out there is the photo package? Backgrounds of us coming down the non-existent staircase in our single story ramble and pictures of us in the woods. I also cannot understand why someone chooses to use his or her high school year book picture when he or she dies at 101. I guess everyone is watching too many reality television shows.

Be proud of who you are and your accomplishments.

[LeslieSD]

Come on, guys.

If some of us here have the privilege of defining what is "real" crossdressing, would you accept some other people defining what is "real" women?

Is crossdressing deceiving by definition? Do you disclose the fact that you have a penis underneath the panty when you go out? Do you have to do it in the "hard and right way" to do an SRS and get a vigina? Or only the real XY counts?

Do to others as you would have them do to you.

[Aunt Kelly]

Nothing wrong with FaceApp, provided it's not used for deception (that includes deceiving yourself). Frankly, as steeped in hi-tech as I am, I'm still amazed that software can do things that, barely a decade ago, required a skill Photoshop artist to accomplish. A bit further back, and it required skilled air-brush artists.
But then I am still amazed that I have in my purse a device that connect me to pretty much all of the world's knowledge at a moment's notice. :)

[Natalie5004]

Isn't crossdressing deceiving yourself? If you use faceapp to help your brain with that deception so what.

Not that any of my photos use faceapp.. (joke here) But I have been out and about but that has nothing to do with faceapp. Have anyone ever gone on a on line date? Has any of those folks look like the photo on line? Sure 20 years ago.

So, what the heck lets have fun and use the app for its intended purposes, to fool peoples brain, including yours.

Here is a faceapp photo I took that is so far away from what I really look like it is incredible. I did not post it here or anywhere but I saved it. 323835

Do I or anyone think I look like this? Totally delusional.

[ShelbyDawn]

I feel that's what CD-ing is.

And you are 100% correct for you.

For me and many others, passing will never be an option no matter what we do.
I've done the whole professional makeover things and was still a 6'3" MIAD, just with amazing nails and killer makeup.
I don't have an issue with that because my dressing isn't about how I look, it's about how I feel when I get dressed and the illusion that provides.
Right now I'm wearing my bra(with forms) and panties (they match of course) with a really cute sweater dress with silver studs and my auburn wig.
I feel every bit a woman right now and, as long as I don't look in the mirror, I can keep the fantasy real.

As for aps, I used a phone app called 'Voila AI Artist' to create my avatar. I'll never look that cute in real life, to that young ever again, but it's nice to see that feminine face knowing that it 'could have been' and dream a bit.

I applaud those of you that put in the work and make it happen and honestly, am a bit envious(your makeup in your profile pic is spot on, by the way). But also realize that not all of us can pull that off.

I'm thinking that me using that app to create my avatar doesn't outweigh the way I dress every day and how it makes me feel, but to each his/her/their(pick you pronoun) own.

[Shelly Preston]

I feel its not what you use but how you use it.

I prefer my pictures to be the real me not an approximation.

Face app :- a bit of fun but its not the real you.

Photoshop :- Its fine for a minor touch up to hide a spot or change the background. Then its essentially still you in the picture.

For those who say crossdressing is deception. I guess that depends on why you dress.

[kellyanne]

People can do what they may but as the human visual system is so wired for faces, I find things like repetitive & consistent looks and hand poses look lame- somewhat like the photography schticks of the 70s.
People do not have consistent expressions and perfect limb movements like robots. If I ask someone to pose for 6 shots with her hands on her chin or leaning back at different locations - the hands , face, eyes, angles of neck etc will be different and each shot will look unique, even on burst at 10 fps people's expressions change.

I think if many ladies learned a bit of make up and fashion principles - they could toss the digiavatars.

- - - Updated - - -




For those who say crossdressing is deception. I guess that depends on why you dress.

Well I guess we are all faking our brain patterns too, MRIs show the TG individual - surprise to no people here - has a different brain activity pattern compared to gay or straight people.

Nature published some MRIs of the 4 groups Hetero, gay , M and F TG
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17352-8#Sec8

I know... shocking ... no way - can't be !

;o)

[AnelineM]

After reading all this back and forth about FaceApp I felt obliged to try it. I won't get into the existential question of whether just using an app to change the appearance of a picture is really crossdressing. I took a picture of myself as is and let the gender switch option do its thing. Then I put the two pictures side by side. I was fascinated by the outcome. The app kept my basic facial structure and shape, but smoothed my skin out to remove a bunch of wrinkles and added distinct eye brows and fuller lips, which I don't have. Otherwise, side by side I can see it's recognizably me, but female. Not a terribly attractive woman, but definitely a woman. I have lousy makeup skills, but with this app I can kind of see what I might hope to achieve if I keep working at it.

Thanks to everyone here for an interesting discussion and a pointer to an App I wasn't aware of previously.

[BrendaPDX]

Hi Judy,
I have tried the FaceApp and can understand what you are talking about. I need to work on my makeup skills (a lot) but still prefer the all me look. at least for now, LOL
Brenda

[xam]

Everyone have different situation. Some do not have the luxury and sweet time applying makeup in their safe haven, (If I try to be mean I will use the word "HIDE") it could be their girl cave, garage, basement or hotel room. They (app users) are just trying to present their ideal female image with other mean that are feasible to them. If you think this is deceiving and I wonder how many ladies here show yourself to your SO while dressed (and yet posting pictures to total strangers in this site) and what about using shapewear, waist clincher or corset to get a slim waist. Are you suppose to go on a diet and exercise to make it truly your.

Here is a challenge to all the ladies here who do their own makeup. Every outing I have to take and carry my girl clothing and heels using public transportation to get to my destination. Get change in a restroom or porta potty. If you can apply your makeup in that tight space (think about the summer heat and that stinky smell) or fear of people knocking on the door. I will bow down to you and say sorry.

Also I completely understand the frustration some of the app users didn't state that they use it or not and yet get good compliments.

[Crissy 107]

I do not have a dog in this fight, ok discussion, I do not have the luxury of getting to use makeup nor have I checked in on face app. I say to each their own, do what you want, when you want, and who really cares.

No I do not use toe app for my avatar or profile pics, is there one?

[Judy-Somthing]

I think FaceApp is fine but, don't use it and pretend it's you..
I look very much like a man in his 60's but when I Cross-dress I put in all the effort to look fem.
It' takes about 45 min. to do my make-up, why would I want to say "you look great" if you spent 10 sec. to use FaceApp.

[Leslie Mary S]

I have used Faceapp to make me look older not beautiful. But when I post here, you're seeing ME. I add breast forms and a wig but the rest of what you see of me is me. I do on occasion alter the background, and yes.
I am capable to take of the extra poundage and inches, scars, etc., off a photo, but I don't normally do it.

[DanielleDubois]

Also I completely understand the frustration some of the app users didn't state that they use it or not and yet get good compliments.

I think this is exactly what the OP was referring to. No harm in using FaceApp especially in situations where doing makeup is not possible. I have respect for your posts because you always say you used FaceApp. It's the people who use Faceapp , don't mention they used it, and then accept all the compliments about how beautiful "they" look that bothers me. And I don't think using hip pads, breast forms , wigs etc. falls into the same category of deception any more than GG's using false eyelashes, lip plumper, pushup bras with foam inserts, or padded panties etc.

[Princess Chantal]

Just wondering, seeing that I have been just browsing online with my iphone and not with a desktop & monitor for years, are these faceapp type of picture enhancers actually make the pictures all that realistic with the changes?
With the little iphone screen I find the pictures look so obviously worked on and unlikely to fool many people. However, I like how these apps help with people hide their identity better than the blurred out, black dot, or yellow smiley face over their faces. When I see the blacked out faces, my eyes primarily focus on them before the rest of the person.

[HelpMe,Rhonda]

Every time this comes up I come down on the pro-app side.

Plenty of cis women use the apps when they take pictures (otherwise they wouldn't exist). Doesn't seem fair to say someone can't use them if they weren't born the way they wanted to be.

Plenty of us use them when we live lives without secret alternate spaces, or long chunks of private time, to crossdress with full makeup with less fear of exposure. When covid absolutely all but eliminated any chance of having private time Faceapp and youcam makeup helped me deal with that loss for a while.

I have received a few compliments on app'd pics, and I always try to reply that the pic has been app'd if the text/captions didn't state that.

And I switched from makeover pics as avatars to FaceApp pics for a while, left them up here since anyone can see your avatar since you can browse some of this site without signing up.

But I never looked at crossdressing as a competition, I'll leave that to RuPaul and his ilk. Live and let live.

[Kimberly A.]

I just thought of something else, so I wanted to add to what I said previously..... Also Judy, because I realize I didn't really answer your question in my post. Anyway, to answer your question and imho, I say no, absolutely not..... Why? Well, if someone uses a software such as FaceApp, solely to make themselves look like the opposite gender, (as there are both M to F and F to M crossdressers, although there are not nearly as many F to M CD'ers from I've observed), but they don't actually put on makeup or a wig if they're an M to F CD, or they don't do anything to otherwise make themselves look like a man if they're an F to M CD. In both cases, I don't think that's truly crossdressing. But on the other hand, if the FaceApp user has already applied makeup, a wig and put on women's clothes, but utilizes FaceApp to improve, (in THIER opinion only, not mine), their appearance then well, I honestly don't see anything wrong with it.

Tbh, I don't see anything wrong with using FaceApp to make oneself appear to be the opposite gender, regardless if they apply makeup or anything else..... BUT, I do think that that's just a bit deceiving.

[Amanda James]

This is the first I've heard of FaceApp so I had to Google it. I think it's my new favorite app lol.323847

[Snide_lobster]

I don't really have any skin in this game either, just be aware of the privacy concerns with FaceApp. I'm pretty sure they own any image you give them by the terms and service.

[LeslieSD]

While we usually complain about the society being prejudice against us, we have to realize how easy it is for us to fall into the same trap.

Somebody might say, to bear a child is being woman and going through the suffering, how can you call yourself a woman by just putting on a dress without even shaving your legs? Another commonly heard comment, if you want to be a woman, go through the right process of HRT and SRS. Don't just put on a lipstick and make yourself look like a f***k.

Next time when you bitch about people insist on calling you "sir", think about your elitism and prejudice, think about your comment here toward your fellow harmless sisters who just needed a way to deal with their dysphoria.

[HelpMe,Rhonda]

LeslieSD;
YES! Wish this was the default position on sites like this! There are enough people in the world to tell us not to do what we do...why be bothered by how your fellow humans are doing it?

[Teri Ray]

I have never used face app. I stilll make my pictures the old fashion way. Take 100 pictures and toss 98 to get one that makes me think I look better than I actually do. So I guess my deception in photos is I try not to post the pictures that don't show me looking as good as I wished I did.

I guess I will wait for the magic app that enables you to actually change your face, hair and features for real to look like the girl of your dreams. But isnt this just a common crossdressers dream go to bed drab and wake up female and pretty.

As far as my opinion of the use of Face App it does do amazing things to a photo. Its just not for me.

[Krisi]

re: "Is Cross-Dressing dressing as a woman or using software to look as a woman?"

Cross dressing is a man wearing woman's clothes. That's the definition. Technically, a guy wearing panties under his suit would be crossdressing.

Most of us take it a bit further and wear wigs, boobs and hip pads and women's outer garments. Many of us apply makeup to make us look more feminine or to give the appearance of being a female.

I do have a program on my computer that allows me to add simulated makeup to photos and I have played with it a bit. There's an option to make the face look more feminine, but I don't use it because I would rather see my face as it actually is, but with the makeup. Pretty much, I just use it to add eye makeup because I'm already wearing beard cover and lipstick.

I would never use an "app" on a phone to simulate a female face. I keep my "little hobby" as far away from my phone as possible just to keep any hints of crossdressing private.

[alwayshave]

Judy, I have never used a face app and I never will. I enjoy dressing and applying makeup. Software would just be cheating.

[crobeson96]

I think it's fun. Now let me go get dressed.
323931

[Genifer Teal]

I'm in a trans makeup online group. The whole point of the group is to share and discuss makeup tips. Many of the girls there use it too, IN A MAKEUP GROUP! I don't get it.