Wife Led Marriage and CD

[NancyJ]

I have not seen this discussed on this forum, but I wanted to report that since my wife and I have agreed to experiment with a wife led marriage, about one year now, things have gone much, much better between us. She still does not allow me to fully dress in her presence, but I am in panties 24/7, fem pajamas, and some other feminine accommodations. We are both happier. There is more openness and no arguing :-).

This type of marriage, for us, seems to have reduced some of the tension we formerly had with our semi-DADT arrangement. I know it would not work for all, but so far, I love it!

If anyone is seriously interested in more details about how this works, please feel free to PM me, and especially do so if you also are in a WLM or FLR. Nancy

[1958Candi]

I would love to be in a WLM but my wife is submissive by nature and it would not be natural for her. Enjoy your experiment!

[docrobbysherry]

Ours became a WLM over time and not with my consent!:sad:

Didn't work for us but I hope it does for u, Nancy!:thumbsup:

[Misty_cder]

I have asked my wife to become more dominant and make our relationship a WLM, but she is not interested.

[Stephanie47]

Nancy, you have to define what a "Wife Led Marriage" entails. From your brief description it almost seems as if there is a poster on the wall listing the acceptable and unacceptable. That may be good, if each observes the posted rules. There would be no guessing what is permissible or not.

[Debbie Denier]

Agree with Stephanie. WLM or female domination? There is a fine line how far you go and the definition of limits.

[Pumped]

I can see it working for some, but my wife doesn't want the responsibility!

We had our own business for a few years. during that time she ran the home, paid bills and so on and eventually started working at the shop doing the books. when we closed up she handed me the check book and told me she never wanted to see it again. That was 30 years ago and I pay all the bills and take care of the household stuff.

Hummm, maybe she is in charge after all!:thinking:

But seriously, my wife is fairly submissive and I don't see it happening here, plus I don't think it is something I would enjoy. I like being the dominant one.

[NancyJ]

To speak to Stephanie’s comment, is no poster on the wall, but we have discussed what is okay with her and what is not. She is a naturally dominant person, was an oldest child, worked in a powerful career where she managed many people, etc. for me, I would far prefer to know what is okay with her and not as far as my crossdressing. This is not about financial control. We make all major life decisions together and, actually, I pay all the bills since it is a chore she dislikes.

This is a lifestyle choice. I hesitate to go too much into the details in this forum, but the term is well-defined elsewhere on the internet. The purpose of the post is not to cause controversy, or to confuse anybody, but more to report that it has reduced tension between the two of us and to see if any others have attempted the lifestyle.

I actually like the clarity of submitting to her and knowing what it takes to please her. She has made it fun for me and obviously enjoys it. I wish we had figured it out long ago. For example, I no longer sneak around to dress when she will be gone. Instead, I ask her permission. It was really hard at first, but she knew I was doing it anyway, and much of the time she says yes. Nancy

[April Rose]

As has often been said here, probably because we need to keep reminding ourselves, everyone of us is different. But looking at the popular fiction sites around cross dressing it's clear that the idea would be very appealing to some of us. I looked into it, and found it intriguing, but never introduced the idea to my wife because I knew she wouldn't go for it. Ironically, as her health declined, the relationship became more and more centered around her needs and comfort, but in a tragic way, not a fun one.

Ultimately, respect is the glue that will hold our relationships together, and lack of it is the solvent that will take them apart. He's in charge, She's in charge; I can see it either way as long as they are both in agreement. A little real love thrown in there wouldn't hurt either.

[Mermaiden]

I?m glad you brought it up. I find the idea of a wife led marriage appealing and have asked my wife about it, but she isn?t comfortable with it. She knows I do not mind having her tell me to do something around the house, and sometimes she?ll authoritatively give me a task, but it isn?t natural for her. And I?d prefer a little bit of correction if I do something she doesn?t like (usually involving a small kitchen mess) rather than having her get worked up and complaining. It seems like a FLR would be a good deal for most wives, but if it?s not who they are, then it just doesn?t fit.

Question, how did the WLM happen in your life? Your idea and she agreed to try?

[ReineD]

It’s amazing how different people can interpret the same reality in completely different ways.

The facts as described by the OP:
The wife does not want to see full dress (she does not object to it when she is not there like many other wives), but does allow feminine underwear in her presence (hidden by pants), pyjamas (only briefly seen by the wife at night until the lights go out), and other things not specified (perhaps painted toe nails hidden by socks and shoes?).

The husband’s (and some other forum members) view:
This is a sort of dominatrix involvement where the wife has all the power, which plays into some members’ oft-expressed desire to be dominated (which makes them feel "submissive"), which is a rather fetishistic way to look at femininity. But, this is exciting for the husband, who expresses that he loves the arrangement.

My view (and I also suspect many wives’ views):
The wife concedes that her husband wants to express some femininity, while the husband respects the wife’s desire to not see too much of it. This way, the wife has her husband most of the time and other people don’t know what is going on. The CDing is then somewhat controlled so it doesn’t get out of hand, while the husband is free to construct any fantasy that he wants to.




BTW, anyone who believes that a feminine person is necessarily submissive is hopelessly out of date with the times and does not have a deep understanding of women. :)

[NancyJ]

A couple points of clarification: I absolutely do not see femininity and submissiveness as related, and I believe Domination and submission in a romantic relationship is a sexual style, or practice, not a gender issue. Gender and sexuality are separate issues and I tried to be careful in raising this lifestyle issue to explain that it has made the crossdressing less tense between us. She, btw, although, very assertive, is also extremely feminine.

She is not quite as uptight about seeing me in panties as Reine portrays, but her being in charge of my dressing has helped the situation. She actually will take me shopping as a reward :-).

There is plenty of love and respect in our marriage. We?ve been together for a long time, share much companionship, mutual friends, etc.

This is the 4th time I have approached her to attempt this. This time she agreed stipulating what she really wanted was for me to show that I could really listen to her feelings and put her first. That has been my goal and she has seen how happy it makes me for her to assume a more dominant role.

[ReineD]

A couple points of clarification: I absolutely do not see femininity and submissiveness as related, and I believe Domination and submission in a romantic relationship is a sexual style, or practice, not a gender issue.

I agree with you!

I guess I just don't understand why feelings of submissiveness are associated with the wearing of women's things.

Also, you do agree with me that femininity and submission are not related, but I'm afraid that many others here do conflate the two. My remarks were addressed to those who conflate the two. :)



She is not quite as uptight about seeing me in panties as Reine portrays, but her being in charge of my dressing has helped the situation.

I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I thought your wife was uptight about seeing your feminine underwear. I was trying to point out that from my past experience with SOs of CDers, many GGs are OK with the CDing as long as they aren't exposed to too much of it.

[jacques]

hello Nancy,
interesting question.
Your post shows us the importance of having discussions and reaching agreements.
I think that I would like my wife & I to take turns leading - never discussed it; so we end up doing nothing and both being unhappy.
You have given me something to think about.
luv J

[Kris Burton]

I dunno...maybe I'm missing something here. I guess I always saw a marriage as a partnership between equals, and issues, even CD related ones, decided by respectful and hopefully loving negotiation. One person might take a more active role, but the other is not submissive. The idea of the wife or husband "leading" the marriage is for me kind of uncomfortable. Even in the case of CD, whatever the arrangement is should be decided upon mutually, and hopefully it would not become a deal breaker. I know it has been for many among our ranks, but that might be the settlement, cold though that may sound. Anything less than the balance I'm trying to describe here sounds too dominant to me, and would increase not decrease tension, at least it would around my home!

[Dutchess]

This happened to me both times I was with a cd'er and a tg'er ( although I think both were actually cd'ers)

They both saw being "feminine" equal with submission and did his to me slowly as Doc said "without my consent " they did it hoping I would just sort of fall into it and like it . Instead I got VERY resentful when I realized what was going on . I felt like I was being scammed . Kink doesn't bother me but I cant live it 24/7. For me FLR is kink .

I do not like to be leader of a relationship 24/7. Period . Two totally different things happened when I rebelled . The CD'er ended up with men on the side ,MANY men to satisfy the submission need . The Tg'er ,ended up feeling free to be both himself and FAR more dominant than he ever thought he would like to be.. I am not sure why it went this way unless the CD'er just saw things in a more fantasy way.

Similar to what Reine is saying, most times when CD'ers say that they are "feeling feminine " you could easily substitute the words "submissive" or "aroused" for the word "feminine ". This is how it was in real life for me also .

[Pumped]

I dunno...maybe I'm missing something here. I guess I always saw a marriage as a partnership between equals, and issues, even CD related ones, decided by respectful and hopefully loving negotiation. One person might take a more active role, but the other is not submissive. The idea of the wife or husband "leading" the marriage is for me kind of uncomfortable.

My wife is active in decisions around the home. We talk, but generally up to me to decide. She is not uninformed or clueless. She just doesn't feel the need to be involved in day to day stuff, and I have no issue with that. we do talk about our days and the little stuff that goes on. I tell her when I pay bills. I respect her wishes and I believe being together for over 40 years has built some level of trust.

[donnalee]

If you don't think she's in charge, you're fooling yourself.

[NancyJ]

Thanks to all who have responded so far. I posted this thread primarily to see whether there were any others who are living this lifestyle so that I might connect and communicate with them. It sounds like (at least so far) that I am the only one who is trying this lifestyle. I feel bad that Dutchess has been hurt by CDs who apparently deceived her and attempted to manipulate their relationship with her. And Reine, I do appreciate your attempts to clarify. I do have so much respect for you and I have read a good deal of the sound advice over the years that you have provided on this forum.

I do want to be clear about a few things: My wife and I have been together since we were teenagers. We are now retired. We love each other very much. We have made, and continue to make, many major life decisions together. We continue (thankfully) to have an active sex life. She has always put limits on my crossdressing and I have always tried to be open with her about it, but it has been the source of some of our biggest fights because (I will admit) I have always wanted more and I have done some sneaking -- but she has known, at least since I started figuring it out, that I liked to wear women's clothes. We kinda grew up together, so I didn't exactly figure it out until we were already together and I naively thought that some of the urges would go away when we got married and I lived with a woman (Silly me: It just got worse because I was living in an apartment with women's clothing in my closet and dresser drawer!)

Anyway, I asked her to be in charge of our house -- because it is clear she is better at it, and I like knowing what she expects from me. There are other aspects to a Female-Led Relationship that I asked her for, some that she found a bit strange or even funny, but agreed to try, and so far we have both found have added excitement, fun, and clarity to our lives. So, just to be one hundred percent clear, I do not think there is any manipulation. It is a negotiated way of doing things. I am not her slave or something like that. She is not wearing leather or carrying a whip around the house.

However, I she now does tell me what she expects from me around the house. I like this clarity a lot. I also know what I can wear without permission and when I must ask permission. And, without going into detail, we both like that she has totally taken charge of sex. Truth is, she probably always was, but we have made it more formal.

BTW, the look I most love to emulate is the professional woman look, not a so-called sissy appearance. I want to be a woman more like my wife, actually.

I will answer any more sensitive questions by PM only for obvious reasons. I would also be happy to advise as to how to approach your wife about this if you think it might be something she might be willing to consider. Thanks to all, Nancy

[Linda K.]

I agree with Kris, the relationship, and all the decisions associated with it, should be mutually shared. But each person has certain strengths over the other and should be the person that is the "go to" person when it comes to that task. For example, I clearly excelled at repairing the car or something in the house, which my wife has no understanding of whatsoever. However, she is much better than I when it comes to financial management. I am not saying neither one of us cannot do those tasks, only we excel in these areas better than the other.

That being said, we also don't absolve ourselves from those responsibilities of the other person and actively engage in the decisions of each. Obviously considering the opinion of the one that is responsible for that task as they are the "expert" in that. It should be a mutual relationship, with consideration of each person's opinion in the matter. For me, blindly trusting the other to "lead" the relationship can cause mistrust and resentment of the other, as eventually could happen, especially if your opinion starts to be regarded as insignificant.

You should have a say in the decision and trust her opinion if you think she is better at it than yourself. But you still have a vote!

[Karren H]

And I thought all marriages were led by the female??

[ReineD]

I posted this thread primarily to see whether there were any others who are living this lifestyle

You describe WLM (wife-led marriage) or FLM (female-led marriage) as a lifestyle. Although I initially got the gist of what you meant based on your acronyms, I did just now google it and there are a few results for FLR (female-led relationships). The top google result is described as a kink (the results popped up when I googled "FLR kink". Googling just FLR produces unrelated pages). I won't post the link here because it may be too much for this forum, but they do describe it as a sexual kink/lifestyle involving feminization, sissification, and various BDSM practices. I suppose that FLRs can span all degrees, from milder to more intense sexual practices.

In any event, I can see that you describe your wife's giving or not giving permission for certain CDing activities as fitting under the "FLR lifestyle" description.

But my question is, does she look at it that way? Is she aware that you view your relationship as a lifestyle that involves kink, whether or not the kink is as mild as only giving/not giving permission to crossdress? Or does she think that for the sake of your marriage, you are respecting her wishes to not be overly involved in the CDing. This was the point of my initial post - that sometimes a reality is seen two different ways. :)

[ShelbyDawn]

Reading between the lines a little, it sounds like one thing you and your wife entering into this type of relationship did was strengthen and define a better and more productive communication between the two of you and that is paramount in a successful relationship.

Good for you. I hope it continues to work for you.

[Stephanie47]

"I like clarity." (#19)

I had not heard the term "Female Led Relationship" (FLR) before. I think in marital relationships there is a wide range. My interest in the question posed is centered on the cross dressing issues in a marriage. If a wife says "everything" is "out!" Period, end of story I'd say that is definitely 100% FLR as relates to cross dressing. On the other extreme a husband may say "Take it or leave it, I''m doing it!" I've read posts where the wife goes absolutely bonkers if she find her husband wearing a woman's panty. Others seem to sincerely enjoy her husband's cross dressing and fully engage in it. Why the differences? Everyone has had prior experiences and ideas over the years.

I don't know who is really in charge in these relationships. It almost appears there has been some negotiations, whether explicit or implied. Is there much of a difference if a wife says nothing, but, knows her husband is going to "do it" anyway, so she calls home to tell him she will home in an hour? "Oh, I have an hour to clean up." "Oh, he has an hour to clean up." The elephant in the room has been successfully ignored again. I guess, maybe it would be better if a wife, upon leaving the home says "It's alright to wear your French maid outfit, but, please clean the toilets this time." One critical thing that has to come into play, not matter how it is structured, is both husband and wife have to agree on the needs of the spouse for it to be successful.

[NancyJ]

Reine, I just googled Female-Led Relationship (I have never googled it including the word kink). There are multiple citations and descriptions. As I mentioned, it is also sometimes termed Wife-Led Marriage. Another term that has been used is Loving Female Authority.The focus of this aspect of our relationship is not kink, but it does include her being in charge in the bedroom. I will not say any more about it on the public forum, but she is well aware that others practice this lifestyle and she knows that it is as unusual a practice as is my crossdressing. The word kink is probably not one either one of us would use. We would just say we have been together long enough to know each other?s buttons. And, she enjoys pushing certain of mine (and me hers). If you are sincerely interested in something more specific, you can PM me. But bottom line, there is far more to it than sex. Yet, I brought it up on this forum because it has opened the DADT door. Nancy

Stephanie, I am sure there are many who have not heard the term, and there is much misunderstanding of the concept. Some, as Reine suggested, associate it with a kink. That is an extreme. For us, it has added clarity and openness. For example, yesterday I asked her permission to wear pantyhose under my jeans. She thanked me for asking, and gave me her okay. In the past I might have done it without her ever knowing, but felt guilty and sneaky about it.

I, actually, like for her to be in charge of the house, the housecleaning needs, etc., and for her to assign me chores. This does not mean that we do not continue to make major life decisions together. We do. As I have mentioned, there is plenty of material about this concept on the internet. Some of it is garbage, of course. If you include the term kink in your search, you will get back results skewed towards that aspect of the relationship dynamic.

In a very real sense, she has always controlled how much of my crossdressing has been allowed in our relationship. This just formalizes it and is more open than DADT. Nancy

[Bea_]

My impression of who is leading a relationship is that the person who has the strongest boundaries and most aggressively enforces those boundaries is in charge. My boundaries have always been more flexible than my wife's, so she had much more influence over the relationship. There has been a lot of grief over that situation and it finally came to a head twenty or so years ago. Oddly, about the time that things settled into a new norm, of her greater respect for my boundaries, crossdressing entered the picture out of the blue. She is tolerant and even accepting of my style choices around the house, and that's what crossdressing is for me, style choices. I'm totally a man-in-a-dress who begrudgingly adheres to societal norms out in the real world.

As far as daily chores and honey-do's, my wife's standards are much higher than mine. I totally appreciate when she is direct in her requests for specific things. But, I maintain my boundary of setting priorities in getting them done, even if my priority is relaxing for a bit. We've both learned to be patient in that respect.

[ReineD]

Nancy, thank you for your response.


... but so far, I love it!


This is a lifestyle choice. I hesitate to go too much into the details in this forum, but the term is well-defined elsewhere on the internet.


I actually like the clarity of submitting to her and knowing what it takes to please her.

You use the term "lifestyle choice" without defining it. There are two types of lifestyle choices. One involves making conscious decisions when it comes to diet, exercise, getting enough sleep, spirituality, homeschooling, coparenting, living in defined communities with shared values (for example hippies communes), the use of alternative medicines and practices, etc. The other is defined as an "alternative" lifestyle, which is a lifestyle perceived to be outside the cultural norms and is associated to varying degrees with sexual practices, including crossdressing and transvestism, nudism, polyamory, swinging, BDSM practices, power exchanges involving submission and control, etc. There is no thrill associated with the first type of lifestyle choice, but by it's association with sexual practices, the second type of lifestyle choice involves receiving a thrill.

The first clue in your posts that speaks to me of a thrill (or kink), is your stating that you love the lifestyle with an exclamation mark! :) The second clue is your reluctance to go into too much detail in this forum, I assume given the forum rules about not being sexually explicit. The third clue is your use of the phrase "submitting to her". Although all marriages involve one person taking the lead more than the other in what they enjoy or are good at, this hardly fits the term "submission".

And my question was, does your wife see your relationship in the same way you do. My spidey senses tell me no, given how you describe what she wants:


This time she agreed stipulating what she really wanted was for me to show that I could really listen to her feelings and put her first.

I'll mention something I've spoken about on the forum many times before. There are wedges in marriages when there is a third party involved, when this third party is either another person that a partner is having an affair with, or when a partner finds release or is gratified by something that is outside of having a sexual relationship with his or her spouse, whether this is with an object or a practice such as the crossdressing that the spouse does not equally receive gratification.

Given what I've gleaned over the years from GGs living with CDers, your description above that your wife wants to know that you do not put the crossdressing above her is a hint that she may not look at your "lifestyle choice" the same way you do. She wants you to put her first, which is something that all wives of husbands who are engaged in alternative practices want. She does not live in your head, she has no way of knowing what the crossdressing means to you or what you do with it when you are alone, other than the light she senses in your eyes at the prospect; the light that she wishes would sparkle for only her. And so I cannot help feeling that to her, your agreement to put the crossdressing decisions in her hands is proof that you prioritize her and not the crossdressing. So she is happy.

If this makes sense. Forgive me for not being more precise, I have only the few words that you posted to go on.

[Stephanie 334]

Hmmmmm....

Is about all I can say on this topic at the moment.

I reflect back to 1994 when my late wife and I began to date. We knew each other for about 6 years so we had a friend relationship under our belts going into dating relationship.

That began an incredible relationship until she passed away last June 2nd....

Now I am starting 2022 on my new life's journey and being a female will be one of my key cornerstones going forward...

It's all I can do or say with everything going on in the world and such...time to become Stephanie most of the time.

Good luck to all of you girls and a happy new year.

[1958Candi]

Reine, Thank you for always providing thoughtful and helpful takes on many topics in this forum. There are so many shades of gray on this particular topic and how it gets interpreted. You are on the mark about it being an alternative lifestyle. Typically it includes elements of cuckolding, feminization and other forms of fem domme. This is not just about having the wife pay the bills and decide whether to add an extension. For me, the fantasy is a cuckold relationship with my wife. I asked her if she would find it exciting to be with other men and the response was a resounding NO. So it will never be discussed again. She has no interest in any of my fantasies and fetishes (including crossdressing, therefore I am deeply DADT). But while crossdressing and its many tributaries dominate the discussions here, it should be pointed out that, for many of us who are fetishists, our lives are not dominated by our dressing desires and/or accompanying fetishes. It just seems that way because that is all we discuss here. But most of our lives are comfortably male with a strong desire to please our wives. My wife is fantastic and I love her more than I did when we married 40 years ago. But if the world was perfect, she would have your openness to listening and trying to understand these alternative desires (even if she still rejects them). Your husband is a lucky guy!

[NancyJ]

Candi, With all due respect, I have no idea where you are getting your information. I have never seen any reference to cuckolding in any of the material I have read on Wife-Led Marriage. Perhaps you are looking at porn sites. This is nowhere near anything that I would ever present to my wife. At this point I regret that I ever posted this thread. It has created little but misunderstanding.

I have responded to Reine in a private message. I will not be responding to any further postings on this thread. Nancy

[ReineD]

Just to be clear, there are indeed relationships based on a negotiated power exchange: an agreement where one willingly submits to the other who then willingly agrees to dominate. This is a fairly common arrangement within the very vast realm of BDSM. The key here is that it is negotiated and both parties are fully aware of and agree to the status quo and all the implications.

In contrast, when one partner decides that allowing a wife, who previously was reluctant to support the crossdressing, full say about when, where, and how much he should dress, he needs to make sure that his wife is fully aware of the submission/domination dynamics of a BDSM power exchange before he labels his relationship as such. Else he is at risk of engaging in a submission fantasy while his wife merely thinks that her devoted husband cares about her feelings and her ambivalence toward the crossdressing.

So before I go to my in-box to read your message, let me just say to others reading this thread they need to take care that their wives know exactly what fantasies their husbands entertain, before labeling their marriages as a power exchange (FLM/WLM/FLR/etc). If their wives agree, then of course they should label their relationships as such.

[Di]

As the OP mentioned they are not going to respond anymore to the thread besides that I think it has
run its course so I am closing it.