Bullied

[Debbie Denier]

I read an article a while ago that suggested that males bullied in childhood were more likely to cross dress or become transgender when they grew older. Does anyone identify with this experience? I was bullied at 8 years of age. My fathers solution was to buy me boxing gloves and teach me how to fight. A well placed right hook eliminated the bullying at the time.So not sure whether this applied to me. However from 10 years of age onwards I started to crossdress. By the time I reached high school I started to experiment more with CD. I felt detached from the alpha males . My friends both male and female were more interested in music and art. I was also interested in watching and participating in sports.Bear in mind this was in the 1970s. I would be interested to hear of others experiences.

[Kris Burton]

That's very interesting Debbie. I had never heard that - any way you could point me, and us, to the article? I was a very bullied child, and although I do not want to overthink or over analyze the pleasure I find in dressing now, I can't help but wonder if that may have played a role.

[Elizabeth G]

Whether or not there is a correlation I can't say but I was bullied as well.

[Geena75]

Growing up the nearest boys my age were the neighbor and my cousin who were 4 and 2 years older than me, respectively. Although not necessarily bullied, I was definitely intimidated by them and hence submissive. I was certainly not alpha male in my personality. Then I went through a growth spurt and grew 10 inches in three years, reaching my current height at age 14. Although I was then in a position of being physically dominant, it wasn't in my nature. Come to think of it, it was just before my growth spurt I first tried on panty hose. Interesting correlation.

[Debbie Denier]

Kris , Sorry as the article I am referring to was about 2 years ago . I cannot remember where I read it or trace it for referral. Geena Interesting you mention the growth spurt. I was short until aged 15 or 16 when I grew to 6ft tall . Like you being dominant or alpha male is not in my nature.

[kimdl93]

Nope, never was bullied.

[Arindam]

I'm sure that being bullied steered some toward gentler, more feminine things. But my case was the opposite. I was discouraged by my very homophobic parents from showing any interest in --much less participating in-- such gender-normed activities as embroidering, which my sisters could do, but not me. But what's not to like about needle work as opposed to aggressive, truly boring things like football/basketball/baseball?

I never did learn to embroider. But I'm competent quilter, which is still very much a female-dominated activity, as signing up for a quilting class will quickly reveal or attending a quilting show, where --if you do see any other males-- you can tell they are only there to please a wife/girlfriend, and they aren't having a good time.

So part of some CDs motivation for cross-dressing probably has as much to do having artistic interests in fields normally excluded from males as it does with iconoclasm or rebellion. ("Don't tell me what I can't do.")

Arindam

[Megan Nicole]

My earliest cross dressing memories were when I was 5 years old. I still have some old picture slides of me wearing my mom?s slip when I was 4 or 5. Definitely no bullying there. Maybe a lil bullying or jabbing in my middle school/early high school days, but that was very common back in the 70s and 80s. Don?t think that was the reason for my cross dressing. Interesting tho. -Meg

[Pumped]

I have always been slightly built. I graduated high school at 5'10" and 145 pounds. Never had any interest in sports, wasn't good at any of them and that caused some duress in my life. Bullied? Constantly. I can not tell you of any significant situations, but it was on going from grade school on up. I never fit in with the "real guys". I enjoyed spending time with females more than guys, which caused more bullying in my early years. When I was in grade school my favorite playmate was a girl. Girls liked barbies so I got a Ken doll for a gift. My older sister blabbed it all over, more bullying.

Even as late ad maybe 15 years ago I went on a work related fishing trip with about twenty guys. Of course it turned into a competition, I just wanted to relax and could care less about fishing, but I did. Guys gave me crap about that! In the evenings it was booze and playing poker, I don't do much of either so even then the guys were giving me crap about being a lightweight because I wouldn't drink, and more crap because I sucked at poker, more bullying.

[Jessica S]

Never bullied. I stopped more than few bullies from bulling over the years

[Maria 60]

I'm also trying to think back, I was told that I was a good and quiet child by relatives. I believe I was already weariing pantyhose before a bully era had started. I grew up on a street that we were all about the same age give or take a few years. Back then there was no PlayStation or more then 3 channels on TV so we were out a lot playing and pretty much getting along. I don't believe it had anything to do with it but saying that I was a quiet child must mean I wasn't a alpha or an aggressive child. You might be on to something

[candykowal]

I also believe being bullied somehow "plays a part" in cross dressing.
But for me it started while I was a sick coddled baby, often don in babydolls and diapers, taking growth hormones for being internally under developed, in and out of the hospital, till I was 6.
Mom was a major influence while Dad was often away working.
I played a lot with my girl cousins, was always around females.
I struggled throughout grade school for being skinny and frail. Mom was always around.
Once I started developing breasts (those growth hormones?!?) in 6th grade and in gym class, always in shirts and skins team play as skins, and a boy with breasts.
I got a severe beating by a bunch of boys, called a fairy, and ended up back in the hospital for 6 months. Mom freaked!
At thirteen a saw a therapist and was influenced to explore my feminine side as my breast grew bigger than girls in my high school years.
I was bullied in Virginia many times in my teens, till Mom and I left to live in N.W. Indiana and I was able to present as Candice my senior year in High School. That's when all the bullying ended and I was actually liked and accepted. It was a awesome time in my life.
I was coy, coddled, a "C" personality as a slim kid with long hair, breasts and shy, who played with girls. :daydreaming:

[Bobbysue]

I was called snot man ,because my nose always ran.

[Heather76]

I was not bullied at all. However, I was always the smallest in my class. When I entered high school, I was 4' 10" tall (or short as the case may be) and weighed 95 lbs. When I graduated, I was 5'8" and 155 lbs. The only thing from my childhood that might have a bearing on enjoying crossdressing is having tried on my mother's lingerie when I was home by myself. With 2 brothers at home, those opportunities were rare; but, I enjoyed them when I could.

[alwayshave]

I dressed long before I could be bullied. So I don't believe there is a correlation.

[Wendy-Lyn]

While I was bullied to a certain extent, it was never particularly serious or ongoing (one or two of the bullies did eventually become good friends later in life, so there's that too), and never really affected me that much either now or then - except that I find it hard to tolerate bullying when I see it occurring to others.

So no, in my case I don't believe it had any influence on my dressing. Please note that I speak ONLY for myself here, everyone's circumstances are different.

[Nadine Spirit]

I think it is far more likely that transgender children get bullied because they are transgender, and not that bullying causes humans to be transgender.

[Linda K.]

Being the youngest of 5 siblings (14 year age gap between my oldest brother to me), I wouldn't say I was bullied physically but more mentally. I was constantly teased by my older brothers and sisters a lot. I started getting interested in crossdressing around the age of 10-11. That is about the same time I started having my growth spurt. Classified as a loner, I gained an interest in music and have been playing for the last 48 years.

[CharlotteCD]

I think it is far more likely that transgender children get bullied because they are transgender, and not that bullying causes humans to be transgender.

Exactly this.

We could always tell the "gay" boy at school, even if they denied it for the entire time. You just "knew" with some of them.

I was bullied relentlessly between 12 and 14 with people calling me gay. I wasn't gay, and I am not, but they knew I was different. I was different because I was transgender, and clearly not amazing at hiding that femininity.

I was dressing at 4, so dressing came first.

[HollyGreene]

Never bullied. Had a desire to wear dresses since I was about 5 - probably before I even went to school.

[Wendy me]

I believe that i dressed�� because i am a gril or was ment to be a girl ��
I never let a bullies bother me

[SaraLin]

I think it's a bit like the other way around.
I feel that there is a "something" that's inside us and makes us want to dress up.
This different-ness in us somehow "marks" us, and makes us prime targets for bullies.

Yes, I was bullied when I was young, but I was dressing long before that.

[Karren H]

Nope, never was bullied.

Me neither.

[Pumped]

The point of what came first CD'ing or bullying, The CD'ing came first for me too, but I understand like others have said, it probably help make us a target.

[Jenni6521]

I was introduced to crossdressing at a younger age. That was not really a good situation but no regrets. As for bullying that always then seemed like a relentless and endless situation. My dad was a mean little guy. His words were worse than anything else he could have done to me. I was small and not very athletic during my school years. Was never good at the traditional school type sports. Gym was a horrible place to be. The positive things I had going on in my teen life that really started to help me was being involved in fire and rescue, playing drums, and cycle racing. I think that was when I was able to bloom more. I would not say that the bullying had any significant impact on my dressing. By reading the post I agree there is correlation, but correlation is not causation. When I was planning the big talk with my wife. I had endlessly rehearsed what I was going to say. So I was going to tell her this as a part of that talk. I remember my mother telling me when I was a toddler I had a blanket with a silk border around it. She said I loved to rub it against my face and cuddle it when I slept. I was probably destined to like soft things at an early age.

[Sallee]

I was certainly bullied but I think all kids are to a degree when we were younger, Preteen, I was also called sissy which really bothered me. I don't know how much of that had to do with my CDing I thought a lot but I doubt it. Others suffered the same name calling and aren't CDs I don't think I would be interested to see if there is a correlation, but it would be tough to see on this forum. We need the non cds to chime in.

[Kitty Sue]

I was bullied in high school, due to the seniority system at boarding school. Outside that my biological father and my stepfather were physically and emotionally abusive. Don't if that had anything to do with my dressing or not. Would not be surprised if it did.

[Barbara Jo]

I was bullied a bit as a child but, that is only a small part of it.
I was also the middle child with a 4 year older and a 4 year younger sister.
I also grew up in the 1950s when all the very feminine female clothes and lingerie was the norm for ladies. and teen girls..
I also had a somewhat passive father and a somewhat dominating mother.

My mother was evidently a dancer in the latter days of burlesque....... nothing nude.......she was mainly a tap dancer in rather skimpy attire and had a stage name of "Joy".
I have seen professional photos of her as "Joy" but. she never wanted to talk about it,. and she became rather conservative socially latter in life..
A friend of her's from that era (another former dancer I believe) still called her "Joy" until they died. years latter.. .I once heard them discreetly discussing "bumps and grinds" while dancing.
.
So, it was combination of a few things, . not just being bullied. .

[Stephanie47]

I don't think there is any evidence at all as to why a male becomes a cross dresser or a transgender woman. From what I have read a person's sexual identity is formed early in life. I would not call it bullying, but, my mother told me too many times that I "was suppose to be a girl." Her first born child was my brother. I cried one night about it which caused her to shut up. If anything, her words may have caused me to be rebellious. I was constantly visiting the school principal for all sorts of unruly behavior. That went on until high school. My mother, along the way whipped my butt with a belt to the extent of causing welts. Under current laws I probably could have her hauled off to jail by just pulling my jeans down and showing my teachers. When puberty hit this cross dressing "thing" started to emerge. Was there any cause and effect? I don't know.

[Michala]

I'm with those who were never bullied. There might have been a couple who tried which resulted in the "School-yard tussle." Never lasted very long and there was no moree bullying. Also very involved in sports, loved the contact sports and that was the case through college. Was a pretty good sized defensive lineman. Tried on some of mom's clothes in my teens then never again until probably in my 40's and started getting some of my own. Have no idea what caused the dressing other than it was pretty sexual when young. Even now I feel like I'm slowly growing away as I don't dress as much.

[Maid_Marion]

Not bullied. Reflexes were and still are very fast.

[kellyanne]

It is difficult to determine cause and effect, IIMU there have been attempts to correlate on birth order, family dynamics, childhood experience etc but no single factor appears causal.

Q: Is the kid bullied because the have "lesser male" personality traits and would otherwise developed transgenderism or is it a trigger?

There are examples of identical twins transitioning and fraternal twins having one transition and the other happy as what they were born as.

Reliable data is very hard to come by which speaks to the strict nature of gender roles in society the world over.



It seems by far most CD spouses would much rather reveal to their social circle that their spouses has an extensive criminal record than he is a law abiding CD who won civic awards .- ponder that.


Why is it Guys" is an acceptable collective term for mixed gender groups but not " girls'?

May I suggest to most the man is degrading his " rank " while she is improving hers by " being more manly"

We still believe a lady without a man has no rank - watch the news - if a story features a married woman - there is ALWAYS a close up of the ring on her hand but NEVER a close up if the story is about a man who happens to be
married.


This is a fun & interesting review of crossdressing and legality:


Why Was Crossdressing Illegal?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaK3IxZJbto

[Barbara Jo]

May I suggest to most the man is degrading his " rank " while she is improving hers by " being more manly"

This is what I always thought also.
A female being a " tom boy" is usually considered something good for a female. . However, if a male has some female habits, he is ridiculed as a "sissy"

[Stephanie47]

Even in the current age bullying goes on using explicit sexual terms. My wife recently retired as an elementary school teacher. As any spouse will do, she talked and I listened to her day at school. Yuck! Ugh! As early as kindergarten boys call other boys degrading names; faggot comes to mind. She would ask them whether they knew what the term meant. Nope, not most of the time. It was just learning from adults. Too many parents go nuts when a school offers any curriculum on human sexuality and relationships. I'd not wagers against where those kindergarten kids got their degrading terms. I just love it when in the "Christmas Story" Ralphie beats the crap out of the school bully.

[BobbiKay]

I was bullied by one individual in elementary school, and later in Scout camp by another. I was probably giving off some sissy vibes, and was a klutz; bad hand-eye coordination, last chosen for teams in phys ed. My ex said that I throw like a girl.
Don't know if that's related to my dressing, or just a typical part of growing up in the '60s.

[Arindam]

I've pretty much avoided responding to this topic of bullying, because the memories --even 70 years later- are too numerous and too painful. I wasn't very "femme", though I've been accused of and hassled for that. I was just smaller than "average" males are supposed to be and never much interested in things males are supposed to be interested in, like cars or sports, never mind also knowing very early I was bi/gay as opposed to cookie-cutter "straight".

It wasn't just in grammar school/high school that I was hassled, but in college/grad school and then later in the work place. Even today, were I thrown into a group of males, they would quickly "know" I'm not "one of them", never mind my skills as a waterfront mechanic and my ability to trouble-shoot machinery --their supposed niche-- are far superior to theirs. Never mind I can draw and build a better, small wooden boat than they can buy plans for, read trout water and throw a bug better than they can, cook a better meal, or sew a better quilt. And that's where things really break down.

Typically, they can excuse not being able to fly-cast, much less design and build a rod to cast that line. And some will equate their skills on the grill with all of cooking. But ask them to go to a quilting show with you, put them in front of piece of work, and then ask them whether the patterns and colors work or what might have been done differently, and they'll fall speechless and then go home and tell their buddies you're a closet queer.

I hate gender-norming. I didn't raise my kids that way, nor do they push theirs into "traditional" roles. For sure, male-female differences are genetic, deep, and often insurmountable. But the distributions overlap enough that no one should ever be excluded a priori from attempting any activity. E.g., the exclusions that female mathematicians have suffered are truly heart-breaking.

Arindam

[JennyMay]

I was the ‘lost child’ in a family with a Narcissistic mother and a very damaged father. My brother was ‘the scapegoat’ and hated me (still does). I was bullied at home and at school. All I really remember about my childhood was how lonely and afraid I was all the time. Whether this has anything to do with my crossdressing I don’t know.

[MonicaPVD]

I've been waiting a long time to use the following phrase, and here it is: Correlation does not imply causation!
Are we this way because we were bullied at one point, or were we bullied because we were already different in a manner that would lead us to this? Impossible to say. I started dressing long before I was ever bullied by anyone.

[BrendaPDX]

i Debbie,
I was bullied but I can't say that it was part of (or caused) my cross dressing. Other things happened as well, but what is done is done. I am a cross dresser, and a little TG more than 1 percent but less than 100 percent. Interesting question, I loved reading the responses.
Thanks,
Brenda

[Crissy 107]

I was bullied relentlessly when I was young, they used to say, Crissy is a sissy. I learned to stand up for myself and it eventually ended.
I agree that we may give off certain vibes that mark us, the predators pick up on that.

I think Monica is correct in that there is a correlation but it is not a causation

[Jenni6521]

"I've been waiting a long time to use the following phrase, and here it is: Correlation does not imply causation!"
Monica: Yea I used it in my post and find it is always fun to use all that statistics I learned in undergraduate and graduate school in a sentence. We are just now beginning to look at gender constructs. Just like so many things regarding norms, expectations and roles, people have to be hurt or struggle in order for attention to begin to be paid. So much of that stays under the radar and peoples lives are greatly affected. I have a hard time putting a link between my cross dressing and being bullied in school. There are recent studies that have been published that indicate when a person is called by their chosen name and identified by the gender they represent that depression and anxiety will reduce in upwards to 70%. When I read that I was simply amazed.

[abby054]

Bravo, Monica! You go, girl! Correlation is not necessarily causality. That should be said more often. Unfortunately, lazy people, who flunked out of everything else and got into journalism, are too stupid or disingenuous to realize the difference and perpetuate such nonsense upon the gullible.

I rarely had problems with bullies. As a little kid, I lived in a small town where my grandfather was a big guy. He even killed his own dog right in front of a neighbor when the dog would not stay home and started bothering the neighbor. No one, not even a dog, messed with Grandpa. My Mum was the same way.

My family moved to a rough town where coal mining, a brewery, and the railroad were the industries when I was eight years old. Tough town. I had a reputation for academics by age nine when one of the toughest fighters I ever met outside the Army decided to take me on. I lost but I put up such a fight that nobody else seriously challenged me the rest of my childhood or teenage years. I openly dressed as a girl in a Halloween parade, long skirt, peasant blouse, wig, and accessories, at age ten and no one said a word. My school also had a day in the spring when we could dress in costume. Most chose crazy costumes, but I dressed as a girl in a midi skirt, like most of the girls at that time wore. Not even the girls bothered me because I had a sister two years younger even tougher than I was in a fight. And could she talk trash! Still does. Bullies left us alone even though I cross dressed publicly on occasion.

Whether bullying causes crossdressing or even correlates, I do not know. Careful inspection of such studies would be necessary to establish any conclusions. Few people are interested in doing the hard work and the math to find out. Me included. I have better things to do, like crossdressing.

[Mermaiden]

Didn?t read all the responses, but I pretty much stopped when I read that an article purports to explain CDing. There just isn?t any decent science on CDing, experts are just making things up.

To point, I wasn?t bullied and am absolutely a crossdresser.