Dadt

[Jolene Robertson]

OK I keep hearing about "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" in a lot of the relationships. What are some of the boundaries and terms of this, how does it work and is it any different than being in the closet?
I'm sure the conditions are as diverse as we are.
I am fortunate that my wife is accepting but I also understand many are not and I understand that too.
Any and all feedback is welcome.

[MonicaPVD]

There's a rainbow of fruit flavors when it comes to DADT. In my case, my partner discovered some time ago that I liked to dress. She reacted very bad and made it clear that it was unacceptable. The whole, I married a man and I expect you to be one, etc etc.

Since then, I have never dressed at home or keep any of my things at home. A few years ago, we were going to attend a Halloween party and I floated the trial idea of dressing as a female cosplay character. Her reaction was immediate, negative, and profound. We have never had a conversation about the topic.

I suspect that she is aware that this is a big part of who I am, and is mortified by what it may lead to. This situation has led me to justify living an extreme double life where I am constantly being dishonest.

[Paula_56]

You and me both

[Crissy 107]

I am in a DADT marriage and I came out to my wife a little over 8 years ago. In the beginning she was very accepting, gave me 19 pairs of hand me down panties which she laid out on our bed for me. She recommended using her shapewear after an abdominal hernia and bought me some things, mostly sleep wear and the such. We used to wear matching panties and fun in the bedroom really kicked up.
She also got me started on nail polish, painting my toes anytime I wanted plus she got me a gift card for my first pedi
In less then a year her interest changed and she just did not want to play anymore. I did not ever push boundaries and was happy with where I was and how we enjoyed it.
Finally she was just done with it, I asked what happened and she said she thought it was just a phase I was going through. I told her no it was not and that it was in me to stay.
We had discussed how I started with this and suppressed it for years back at the beginning. She told me to not wear any of her things, which I never did without her permission and that was pretty much it.
She knows I wear panties 24/7 and that I still get pedicures with color, I am going today.
It has evolved into the DADT situation but I still feel it is better then being in the closet by myself and without her knowledge of this.
If she never knew about this I most likely would have tried to suppress it again and there would be no Crissy time

[Di]

Great thread Jolene.
I always wonder if some DADT is just hiding it from them or is there an agreement they know but give a heads up coming home ect because they do not want to see.


I suspect that she is aware that this is a big part of who I am, and is mortified by what it may lead to. This situation has led me to justify living an extreme double life where I am constantly being dishonest.
This makes me so heart broken . I know I go on and on about not hiding and telling your partner .but this is most important before marriage. I wish wives that find out after can see it is a part of you and makes you no less of a man but a complete person.I hope this point will be made when CDs are explaining the whys and PLEASE never say you will stop /as we know that is impossible.

Sorry to jump in but Monicas sentence broke my heart.

I look forward to others answers so I understand better the DADT and what everyone means by that in their life.

[kimdl93]

I came out to my ex before we were even engaged. Admittedly, at the time I couldn’t imagine doing anything beyond underdressing and told her that. She was clear at that time that she never wanted to see me completely dressed as a woman, because, to use her words, it would change how she saw me.

Todays conversation struck a chord, especially Di’s comment, because I realize that while yes, I did evolved (or perhaps finally allowed myself do what I had repressed for so long) I was still ME. What changed for my wife was the illusion she had created for herself, an illusion that met her needs. It seems that she loved the illusion and not me.

[MonicaPVD]

Di, it is sad and frustrating, and I realize that I am hurting her and myself by being dishonest. We have been together a long time and, by every measure besides this aspect of my life, everything works very well. Life is about making compromises. I accepted this a long time ago, like I accepted the fact that one day this will all surface in the ugliest way, and the relationship will end. Until that day comes, we live to fight (in heels) another day.

- - - Updated - - -


What changed for my wife was the illusion she had created for herself, an illusion that met her needs. It seems that she loved the illusion and not me.

This is normal. We are attracted to others for a variety of reasons, often shamelessly superficial reasons. If you fell in love with a person who was a remarkable athlete, slender and muscular, and some time later they gained 150 lbs, they would argue that they are still the same person. And they would be correct. But they are a version of that same person that does not compute with what attracted you to them initially. This is very superficial and we are loath to admit that we can be this vain. Yet, we often are.

[Kris Burton]

First, Monica and Paula - my heart goes out to you both. It must be extraordinarily difficult to live that way. The stress alone would cause me to break down in just a short time, and in fact it did. The length of time I actively dressed was just a few weeks before fessing up, so imagining maintaining that level of secrecy over a sustained period is beyond difficult. I held off my own CDing for many years for this very reason. Even so, you love for your SO must be great, and you both must be very committed to maintaining your relationship to continue on that way.

I was lucky, my wife is accepting, even participatory up to a point. , However, there are limits, and that includes my desire to step out into the community, which at present is on the short but emphatic "don't go there" list. MY hope is that I will be able to maintain that level of patience, but it's getting harder. It may become a segment of our relationship that becomes DADT, but these comments will redouble my resolve to try to maintain the balance.

[GretchenM]

I came out to my wife in August 2011. She didn't say much, but just listened. But her body language said it all - she leaned further and further away from me as if saying, "Who are you and what have you done with my husband?" I soon started therapy and that helped a lot, but any involvement on her part in actual dressing was blocked with a kryptonite wall even Superman could not break through.

As time has passed she has loosened up a bit. We have talked at times and she understands it is a part of me that began when I was very young and I tried to destroy and eliminate for most of my life, but eventually the female-like portions won the war. There were compromises and the like, but generally I wear flats around the house and women's T's and sweatshirts at home and away, but going any further is a no-no, at least in her presence. It works for me and for her.

So it has gone from a rigid DADT to a somewhat looser DADT. We have talked a great deal about the nature of gender and she has a little bit of understanding of the various theories and the findings that help explain this behavior to some extent, but without a definite answer. We are both trained in the sciences and so we can talk at a fairly deep level, but understanding a behavior and actually being involved in some way in that behavior is emotionally charged and beyond the boundaries of causation. It is personal and I understand that as does she. So it is a fairly agreeable arrangement that is just one of those personal things we all have that just needs to be accepted to a level that is workable even though perhaps far from ideal. Next month is our 53rd anniversary and we have made it through far more difficult things than this. With regard to my gender variance, we found it is just a matter of establishing comfortable boundaries and recognizing we are a couple, but we are also individuals with our own quirks some of which may not be completely desirable. It works.

[Sandi Beech]

It took me a while to understand that there are many flavors of DADT. Mine leans towards DADT and don?t even think about doing it. I tried the honesty path, in fact more times than I should have. Most would have given up long before me. I really only wanted to shave and wear pantyhose mostly. When the therapist gave her a homework assignment in 2017 to look up crossdressing on the Internet, she likely landed on this web site. She fired the therapist because she did not fix me and she has not wanted to talk about it since. Of course I went to the therapist one last time as Sandi by myself. When I asked her what she thought, she said ? I see a women ?. After that I felt cured.

It is kind of unfortunate that by going underground with it, I grew into going out on a level I would never have done if she had not rejected doing it at home. I have kept the peace since then by going down the secretive path similar to Monica. It is not what I wanted, but how I cope as well.

The one thing that this site helped me realize is that she just can not help the way she is, and I am not mad at her about it any more.

Sandi

[britskye]

My situation is similar to others here.

For years, my wife has known I've had a feminine side. We've joked and teased about how I'm comfortable wearing women's clothes, but to her knowledge it was just that a joke. Last year I opened up to her (after 18 years together) about some of my needs. I bought myself a slip nightgown for Christmas and that opened the discussion when she saw it. She point blank told me she's not attracted to women and didn't marry one. I told her I understood her position and explained that this isn't a new thing and has been deeply buried with occasional times over the past decades where I would explore myself. The conversation with her wasn't as bad as it sounds. She is very open minded and supports LGBTQ in all its forms, just not when it involves me. She questioned my sexuality (crossdressers must be gay) and told me she would support me if that's what I needed, but not as my wife.

After a couple of days where we both contemplated what had happened, she basically said she's going to pretend that the discussion never happened. She's tolerating me sleeping in my gowns, but that's all she's going to allow. So at the moment, that's as far as the discussion will go.

I love reading how over time some spouses get more comfortable with it and I have a brooding hope that it will be this way with my wife. However, I know i can't push her on the subject and have to respect her boundaries.

[Kay Adams GG]

I haven't gone DADT because of my Love and wanting My SO to be Fulfilled and Happy.

I originally joined the Forum because I had some serious questions to ask about some of my feelings...and didn't want to air them out in the open.

Basically, it's the Fluctuations that I feel. Some of the issues about my Image of: who I married has come into play at some of the times during this adjustment period. We discussed the fact that "I did Marry a Man". She offered to just refrain; however I knew that this would lead to white-lies/division and Discontentment from my SO. The reason that I came to the Conclusion that white lies would occur is because that, after realizing that "It wasn't JUST a Phase" and ran deeper than this. This feeling has been with her for a Very long time, even though she didn't understand what it meant at the time.

Now these comments/responses have reminded me of the Phases of Acceptance that I myself went through and worked through...by Myself! I still revisit them Momentarily; however, I don't entertain them for long. I see my SO as an ever-Growing Blossom, branching out and Discovering her own and I just can't be selfish and squelch it. It's a part of my SO, yes it has been a Compromise/Adjustment on How I view my SO today. My view of her as a Male has changed; it can't but help it to change...somehow! When I look at my SO there IS a little less Male in Him. It's a trade-off for me; Selfish=Division or Complete Rejection=either Divorce or One Unhappy in the Closet CD. Let me qualify this by saying that this is just My Experience and opinion on this, it's not chiseled in stone as a Law.

Joint Counseling is still an option. Maybe I can come to a better understanding of the Dynamics of how our Relationship HAS changed, and maybe offer another dimension to it. It's difficult to be fully open here, however maybe some of you can glean some valuable information/insight from it.

I'm NOT wanting a "Knee-Jerk" response of: "Well, then I'll just NOT do it anymore!" or "Our marriage is More Important than my CD'ing". It's NOT at that point nor do I feel that it will Ever get to this point. It's a Work-in-Progress. As I had stated in another Thread of mine...It's a Marathon and Not a Race; I'm in this for the Long Haul.

I hope that this didn't leave some of you DADT's feeling, "Well, maybe I'll never have TOTAL acceptance/support from my SO". It may be that it's going to be something that you Both work through as long as the lines of Communication remain Open! It may be in Stages, with some questions arising along the way; you don't know there's a question to ask until a situation presents itself.

There's No Magic Wand to wave or pill to take to help this Process. It's Real, and it takes Real work to make it Possible to have some Degree of Acceptance. There are Limitations/Boundaries in ANY relationship.

Be Happy, and a Coined Phrase...To thine own self be true. Good Luck and Condolences to those of you who don't have an opportunity to share with an accepting SO.

Comments and questions are welcomed,

Ta Ta

[SaraLin]

Another DADT flavor:

I live in what I call a "partial DADT" but I'm not sure if that's exactly right.

Before my wife and I got too serious (when we were still dating), I told her ALL about me and my history. I told her that I was never going to give up my panties - or sleeping in nighties. The rest was negotiable... IF she wanted to stick around at all, that is.

Well, she did stick around, but has never budged on what is OK to wear - at least around her. She knows that I have more. I don't hide my (few) outfits from her. They're hanging right there in the closet, but she definitely does NOT want to see me in any of them. And don't even THINK about makeup, wig, etc.

Since the arrival of COVID, and combined with her declining health, neither of us go anywhere. I am pretty much "joined at the hip" to her these days. I love her and don't mind being there and helping, but I am slowly suffocating from lack of Sara time. Sure, the nighties and panties help, and I'm wearing them later and later into the day - but in her eyes, I'm still (male name) - just (male name) in a nightie, not Sara.

[Krisi]

I think "DADT" means that she knows you are a crossdresser and that you wear women's clothes (and other things like a wig and breast forms) but doesn't want to see or know anything about it. While this is faf from ideal, it is way better than hiding your dressing from a wife with the ever present chance of her catching you in the act.

[CarlaWestin]

My DADT situation evolved because of the dishonesty and deception that was hallmark to my crossdressing adventures. During therapy a long time ago it was mentioned that the purpose was to get to the heart of the matter.
It was at that time that I started checking myself and began living as truthful and honest in life as I possibly could. And I really drilled in to it. It was part of a maturity adjustment about respect, life, money, health decisions, etc.
I had correctly defined my crossdressing as an exciting activity and experience that pushed into unknown territory out of the normal comfort zone, satisfied a desire for a creative outlet and gave me a personal reward system.
It was also a sexual enlightenment. There was a gratification that I could actually be an object of my desire without the pursuit, social interaction or infidelity. I would cringe when hearing acquaintances talk about their extra marital conquests.
It was quite the secret world I was keeping concealed and even the creativity that went into the clandestine part was enjoyable.

But, the dishonesty of it all was bothering me.

As part of the attraction to my wife was her acceptance and curiosity of the odd and off-center, I felt that I could let her know that I liked to play dress up as a hobby along with the other
*ehem* non-mainstream proclivities she already knew about. But, my approach wasn't one of my best decisions. Unlike in a previous relationship, my wearing a bra with boobs around the house just didn't go over well and she let me know
that she didn't like it. So, it was back to deception by omission. Things were kept out of sight but not necessarily hidden. Then about 15 years ago I decided to buy her some flowers, take her out to dinner and tell her I was a MtF crossdresser.
The only salvageable outcome from that was that the truth was finally disclosed. It was very nearly the end of our marriage. The challenge became respecting her complete non-acceptance but also respecting my desires to pursue a personal activity that
had taken me a long time to accept. Also, the perspective had to be defined as that other thing that was more of a minor detail in a wonderful, loving and trusting relationship.

So, DADT and IDWTSI became the line in the sand.

And that's where it is now. I do keep the Carla closet locked so none of my buds can stumble upon my stuff. It's part of the cool man cave I built and when questioned, I mention it contains survival stuff which is kinda funny in itself.
And Carla only comes out when wifey is asleep early in the morning or other times when she's away from house. The beauty is that I own it completely so there is no criticism. And I like that there's no discussion.
We do have a pure and honest loving relationship with an absolute solid trust factor.

[bridget thronton]

Kay thanks for sharing - my spouse would say something similar I think. I could not lie and hide things from her so I told her years ago. Dressing at home was not an issue once I told my adult children and their partners - at my wife's insistence (to prevent someone else telling them first). My wife does not want her family to know - but I think they suspect so that is sort of DADT

[Stephanie47]

"I am fortunate that my wife is accepting." Frankly, without perusing your other posts I have no idea what that means. Is it akin to "Don't Ask, Don't Tell?" A wife can be "accepting" in the sense she does not foam at the mouth and go crazy about, but does not want to "participate" in any shape or manner about it. My current status is the "Ostrich Effect." She is aware I like to wear women's clothing. She knows there is a stash of clothing in the nightstand which dates way back to almost the beginning....circa early 1980's. Does she know the contents of the almost two dozen Xerox boxes stacked up in the recreation/store room....hidden in plain sight. I sense she does not want to really know anything. Our last conversation was the mid 1980's. I read the phrase bantered around frequently, "lying by omission." If my wife really wanted to engage in a conversation I am more than willing. I do not even know if there is an "elephant in the room" anymore. Yes, in the beginning she said all those unkind and hurtful words, "if I had known _________!" You fill in the blanks. One thing I did realize was I did not need her affirmation for me to have self acceptance. I did my own "counseling" which some would probably be my "justification" for what I do. I sat down one day (or maybe it evolved) and used the scale of life as to what I have accomplished and how I treat those around me. That bad "thing" of wearing women's clothing was totally outweighed by those accomplishments. What I also came to accept was any constant badgering my wife for outward acceptance was nothing short of "mental spousal abuse." So, in the mid 1980's we entered the current phase of avoiding the issue. Does she know I sleep in a nightgown (we sleep apart for medical reasons)? Does she know I bang away in the morning (right now) wearing that nightgown and panty (sometimes bra like now)? I don't know. What would happen if she awoke early and stroked my back and felt the bra straps? I don't know, and, I really do not care. That may be a good thing because it may bring about some conversation. Silence is not golden.

I think "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" sometimes is passive aggressive behavior; Keep hubby in hell or purgatory. "Go to your room and stay there. Don't come out until I tell you!" Is this any better or worse than a wife who tears apart the home looking for fem stuff and incites a verbal riot? "Tell me how you really feel."

[Star01]

One thing most agree is that we should tell our wives up front. Actually, I did that way back in the early 70?s. At the time I told her I messed with some women s clothes in the attic as a kid. At that time I had no idea what it was about and thought it was a one time experiment shortly after puberty. We laughed it off and forgot about it. It came back in my late 40?s after leaving a high control religion and started to spread my wings. Pretty soon I had a stash of clothes and would dress every chance I had. She found some items of clothing and confronted me. It was so sudden that I didn?t have time to formulate a response. That is when she laid down the law and made it clear that she didn?t want to know about it or see me dressed. I had no idea that this thing would come back decades later. I used to always get a flutter in my stomach in certain situations and didn?t know what that was about until it hit me hard and I dove in head first.

I like auto racing and always took car trips by myself to attend. I would bring my things with me and spend some girly time. The ongoing pandemic messed that up and we finally started getting out more and mingling including flying south for a week. That was the test I needed to see how my immunity was. A week that included flying to a red state where masks are an afterthought and I am fine. I needed that confidence boost as my wife has been twisting my arm saying I should go to some races this summer. It will be a combination shopping spree/dressing session for the first time in several years. I plan on scheduling some ?travel days? and will be secretly hoping for one or two rainouts.

[Kelli_cd]

I messed up a few years ago, and left out one of my bra and panty sets, which she found. She came down and asked, What is this?! I rather sheepishly replied, Those are mine.
Wife: Are you a crossdresser?
Me, again sheepishly, embarrassed: Yeah, sort of. (at the time I was only interested in underdressing - today my desire is to fully dress and make-up, etc. That won't happen.)
Wife: Well, that's better than having an affair. (I've never been able to describe the sound I heard in her voce that evening. I guess it was more of a resigned "whatever" than anything else.)

The only other time anything came up was the second time I messed up. I forgot about the polish on my toenails (a lovely lilac from OPI), and I took off my socks in front of her. Again, she asked, Are you a crossdresser?
I was much less sheepish, as I had come to finally accept this part of me at that point. My reply was more of a firm "Yes" that time.

Nothing has been brought up by either one of us since then. So I underdress every day, panties always, most days a bra with enhancers. I wait for her to have a "work in the office day" so I can take care of my own personal laundry. I toss a pair of boy underwear into the dirty clothes every day, but haven't worn them in more than 2 years.

I guess this qualifies for a closeted DADT marriage.

[Meghan4now]

I agree with most of what has been mentioned. DADT is what you make of it. It's a land bordered by The Closet, and Participation, with little inlets and border disputes along the perimeter. In my case, wife knows, and I share info on a need to know basis, and she catches a glimpse of Meghan on occasion. But I don't share everything I think or do in that realm to avoid overload. I tend to think of my situation as partial DADT, being a little more open. I feel that strick DADT is slightly better than 100% closet, but still holds a danger of deception. You know the old sins of omission. It can be tough to navigate sometimes.

[Crissy 107]

Very interesting thread, reading all the responses it is easy to see that there are as many different DADT situations as there are members, No two are alike

[Jolene Robertson]

Wow, what interesting and sometimes heart breaking answers and comments. Thank you everyone for contributing.

[ziggie]

I just read through the entire thread and have to agree with Crissy and Jolene. There are many different stories and all are interesting. Thanks to those who contributed.

[JocelynJames]

I am so thankful every day I am not in a DADT. I don?t think I would deal too well with it. Bless all you ladies

[Heather76]

In my case, DADT actually means "I know you cross dress. I see your bras, nighties, panties, dresses, and breast forms on a regular basis. I know you're dressed fully in lingerie when you come to bed every night. I know you are underdressed every day. I can see the bulge on your chest from your forms and bras and I can see your bra strap impressions on your shirt. I accept all this; but, do we really need to talk about it?" Today, for example, I arched my back which is my way of asking my wife to scratch my back. About the time she started scratching my back I realized I had a 4 hook closure bralette on. Well, she scratched my back and crossed back and forth over the back strap 6 or 7 times with no hesitation and no mention of anything. But, if I were to ask her, "Honey, how about helping me pick out a nighty/dress/bra/panties/whatever" I'd get a firm NO!

All that said, I feel very, very lucky that she is as accepting as she is at this stage.

[Pumped]

My wife and I have gone through several stages from "Hell no!" To today I dress when I want.

DADT can mean a range of things from absolute "I don't want to hear or see about it, never see you dressed, zero clothing out, it doesn't exist." "To I know about it and occasional slip up is ok, but I don't want to see you dressed or wash you undies!"

It really depends on the couple.

[Karren H]

Mine is more DADT NIMBY (not in my back yard). It is ok if others cross dress just not me! It is even ok if the sons boyfriend transitions to female, just not me! She loves Billy Porter but I am not allowed to like him(her). Just pisses me off sometimes. Dual standards. But I bite my tong and go on since I did not bring it up before we were married, she did not sign up for this. My burden, my fault.

[Debbie Denier]

There is an old proverb. You can take a horse to water but you can??t make it drink. That is my situation of wife?s total non acceptance. I used to dress at my mothers every week until she passed away.Mine is a similar situation to Monica?s. But involves abstinence. I think sometimes it?s more trouble than its worth so I don?t bother. I have only fully dressed once in the last 18 months when the family were out of town for the day.I purchased clothes from a charity/thrift store and dumped the evidence at the end of the day. Underdressing with panties and nylons sometimes is as good as it gets.Our relationship is fine other than CD.

[GretchenM]

A bit of an addition to my post on this subject.

When I was in therapy, my wife went to a separate therapist that helps friends and families adjust to the idea of having a transgender/gender variant loved one. She didn't go that many times but it did help her to understand more in the early days. The therapist was at the gender identity center here in Denver where I was going - kind of a full service package they offered.

Although dressing is limited, gender expression and engaging in female-like behavior without the clothes is quite acceptable to my wife. In fact she rather enjoys having a husband who is a bit more like her in thinking. I still show some masculinity, but it is limited. I think this goes along with the trend that a lot of women don't care for the domineering husband and prefer a husband who exhibits considerable sensitivity rather than being the classic, stereotypical male - rough and gruff. Not all women like that femininity, but mine does and I think that helps with the acceptance.

The point is we have found that the more feminine behaviors I exhibit is far more important than the dressing. In a word, she appreciates me being somewhat female-like in personality, something I did not do back in my denial days, but with minimal clothing to match the personality. In short, a kind of mild androgyny. I think that is a kind of acceptance, but I also understand that is just not for everybody.

There are certainly common threads in the posts here, but it is fascinating to see the wide variations in so many of our situations.

[Wendy-Lyn]

I would walk out and walk away. And I'd keep on walking. Simple as that.
If she can't or won't accept me as I am, then I don't want her. I'm no longer prepared to hide Wendy, and I'm no longer prepared to compromise on this. On other things, yes. On this, no.
I've already been through one DV relationship (nothing to do with dressing). I survived, but it nearly destroyed me - I won't even attempt to risk another. If that's the choice, I'd sooner stay single.
DADT is simply not something I'd be prepared to tolerate.

[Monique65]

My situation is does she really want to know? She knows I wear panties and has even helped pick them out, I shave my body, and my nails are long and manicured. When I try to broach the topic, she either changes the subject or remains silent. So she doesn’t ask and I don’t tell.

[Geena75]

I am officially closeted, however ... A little over a year ago I was "virtually" caught. Although not seen in my full impression (wig dress hose shoes make-up eyelashes) she did see my make-up on the table, spare wig, spare shoes. I made a couple excuses that seemed to satisfy her and nothing has been said since. While there has been no discussion, I am also sure she isn't dumb and has some notion of what I occasionally do but doesn't ask. So, I regard mine as closeted with all the cautions that go along with it, but wonder if I have a virtual DADT setting.

[BTWimRobin]

This whole CDing lifestyle hit me late in life. While I have had a desire to dress my whole life, I was always able to suppress my desire. Around the time I hit 50 the desire started to grow and here I was pushing 57 and it was either go crazy or accept it. I decided to accept myself as a CD. Not wanting to do anything to deceive my wife, I immediately came out to her and we had the talk. My wife knew for a while something was up for a while. She was happy I told her. I left it at that for a week or so and then I brought up the topic again and she basically said "I married a guy and I want that guy. And quite frankly, I don't understand why women want to wear women's clothing let alone you, my husband." I decided to seek professional help and sought out a therapist. Long story short, my wife felt the therapist was trying to come between us. After a few sessions, my therapist suggested wifey and I set some ground rules and said there is absolutely nothing wrong with me and to enjoy my new lifestyle. That was the end of therapy. My wife and I came up with some basic ground rules. Basically, I can wear anything I want, within reason, when she is around as long as I don't flaunt, prance or do anything to throw my conceived notion of femininity in her face. I agreed and asked what does "within reason" mean? Her reply was she will let me know when I overstep. Almost 3 years later she hasn't commented on anything I have worn and I am still trying to figure it out where I stand. The sad part is I never wanted to deceive her and yet, I do. Over the years, Robin has grown mostly behind my wife's back (although I'm sure she suspects). Why, because we never talk about it. She never brings up the topic. I don't bring up the topic because I don't want her to think I am throwing it in her face. I really feel like I'm in limbo.

[CharlotteCD]

DADT for my wife and I is as follows:

She found out I dress. We discussed it. She told me she doesn't want to see me dressed. I agreed. She doesn't want to see clothes arriving in the post, or left lying around. I respect that wish.

It's never talked about. She doesn't ask me if I have dressed when she has been out, she doesn't ask how I am feeling. I don't ask her if I can dress, or have time to myself. I never mention dressing explicitly.

It is what it is. I just take every precaution I can.

[Veronica Lacey]

Two months after I met my wife I disclosed to her that I like to wear women's clothing by literally walking out of her closet in one of her blouses and a skirt. We had a cautious talk that afternoon and...she didn't run away. We've been together now for 28 years and going strong.

Does she want to see me dressed en femme? No, she bristles at the thought of me in hose, heels and a bra but she'll regularly help me find private time to do so. Will she help me purchase or repair any such items? No, but she does not freak out, judge nor condemn me when a package arrives. Does she offer me time to share discussion about my journey and preferences in this matter? No, but will occasionally do so at my behest even if with minimal enthusiasm or interest.

Does she appreciate the degree of masculinity I possess and exhibit? Yes. Does she appreciate my more sensitive side that is also ever-present? Yes. Does she acknowledge that the two sides co-exist naturally and permanently within me and may very well be present in my clothing choices from day-to-day? Yes. Does she love me as I am? Yes.

I would love to wear anything I please when I wish to (as we choose to wear clothing throughout the day anyways) but that arrangement is not likely to exist. My wife, while overall accepting of who I am, is not likely to change her tune on this. Yet it is ok for me to continue dressing in private without having to tip toe around the house with clothing or worry of being outed, without worry of our marriage imploding. Neither of us live in worry nor fear but together with love and overall acceptance.

While I consider this still to be a form of DADT - maybe it's more of a LALL (live and let live) arrangement? - I gratefully and happily accept what my wife and I have fashioned around this part of my personality. I consider myself a lucky husband.

[Pumped]

Veronica, definitely a DADT situation, but a very relaxed one. Is is a good place to be in knowing she will not freak out if a random article of clothing is left out, or she accidentally sees you dressed and also allows you the time a freedom do do so. It is a very good situation to be in and many here would cry in joy if their spouses got to that point of acceptance!

We were there for some time, but my wife eventually thought it was foolish to ignore the elephant in the room.

[Sandra_Dodds]

There's a rainbow of fruit flavors when it comes to DADT. In my case, my partner discovered some time ago that I liked to dress. She reacted very bad and made it clear that it was unacceptable. The whole, I married a man and I expect you to be one, etc etc.


Same here Monica. Rather than DADT, I consider myself NANA - she'll Never Accept my crossdressing and I'll Never Admit that I'm still doing it. Yes, I know the deception is not good but it's either that or give up the other 95% of our life that is perfectly okay.

[Jenni6521]

This is my third attempt to post in this thread. I started a long chronological post on Friday and it just made me sad, so I deleted it. I tried again later that afternoon trying to be more simple and direct and felt untrue to myself and again deleted the post.

When I joined the forum I had recently returned from a weekend away. That weekend I dressed daily. I do not have forms, or a wig. I have not worn a lot of makeup and during that weekend only wore lipstick and gloss. I went out more fully dressed than I have ever been before and it was euphoric. After posting some here it was evident again I would have to have "The Talk" with my wife. I don't think I had ever really put into words with her what it meant to me to dress, or what I really needed from my dressing. She knew of my dressing when we began to date about 38 years ago. During that one time she did participate. Over the years of our marriage I have opened up to her about my dressing. When I say open up I mean, I mentioned it. The conversation normally ends up in an okay you have told me, I don't like you doing this, let's never mention this again. "Let's not and pretend we did." On Christmas Eve when we did have the talk it was out of my own beginning to get sick over it all. I knew I needed to bring it up again and this time I knew it would be more difficult. She has changed a lot and become more conservative over the years. She can become very angry at the current times and can say mean things. So I was simply very afraid of mentioning this. The rejection that I felt was coming seemed overwhelming. Also I had a sense that I was not being fair to her and the outcome could be far different than I was projecting in my anxious mind. The talk went similar to those early discussions. She was watching TV and listening to me at the same time. Something that does bother me. She is one of those folks that struggles to want to give undivided attention and becomes defensive when that is mentioned. I asked her to turn off the TV she did not, but it was far more important to me to have the conversation. This time I was more open about what I needed. What came out of this discussion was that now she knows I underdress. She does not want to see that. So I do my own laundry. I have a mixture of panties and men's underwear that can be considered panties anyway in my dresser, along with other items. I wear yoga leggings to the gym with shorts over them. Her request is that I return back to "regular" before coming to bed with her. I have moved into a new dimension of DADT. I do have the ability to take trips both for work and my own pleasure. I will use those times to dress more. I also discussed that with her during the talk. Although she knows I dress, I am a lot like Sandra "she will never accept my crossdressing."

[Jane G]

Very different from being in the closet IMHO. My wife has known I cross-dress for many many years. We tried open here I am. It didn't work, so we went for don't ask don't tell. Knows full well I am cross dressed while she is working/away/whatever. Happy with that, has seen me cross-dressed many times. Not into it, but fully accepts that it is part of me. I'm cross dressed today, she is working. I will be in male mode before she comes home. If she comes home early or I forget to put my makeup away, no big deal. No explanations called for. Tomorrow we will still be married and enjoying the many other things that we do together. That is DODT for us. My close family all know I cross dress too. But to the rest of the world I guess I am in the closet. :) So I think it is a question of perspective.

[CharlotteCD]

Jayne, that sounds ideal from my point of view. My biggest stress is her seeing something I've left out and then facing the fall out. Having that stress removed would be so good.

[Pumped]

Jane G, great place to be isn't it! Better would be 100% acceptance, but 90% acceptance with her knowing and not freaking out over it lowers the pressure immensely! my wife played it like that for a while then said screw it, dress when you want!

Give that woman a hug from all of us!

[Territx]

This has been very interesting and confirms that there are as many different emotional attitudes and mental approaches as there are DADT variations - it is all very individual to each of the people/couples involved.

My situation is similar and dissimalar to most of yours. However, I accept that she did not ask for this when we got married; we did not discuss at any time we were dating or in the early years because it was not a "thing" at that point in my life (it came back into my consciousness after having been gone for almost 30 years/about 20 years of marriage); it was/is hard to discuss after all the years because I cannot explain it to myself, much less to her; and it is none of anyone else's business.

I do not intend to bring it up again and, frankly, anticipate that I will quit dressing when I no longer present the image I can accept. Whether that is 10 years or 10 days from now, I don't know. I will probably still participate virtually on sites such as this but will purge and accept the times I had to enjoy it. However, and this may be the most important thing, I love my wife and through out our 40+ years I have strived to make her happy. That may be old fashioned . . . well, so be it. I will continue to what I can to make her happy even if there is no "Terri time".

No one else may understand it (kind of like trying to explain crossdressing to someone else) and I hope that does not offend anyone, but it is just my "individual" approach.

[DianeT]

Hi Jolene, my understanding is that DADT is to be in the closet but with the SO being aware of your hobby.
My wife and I aren't DADT since we discuss it. And although she doesn't want to get involved (and I don't either), she bought me a couple of makeup items. This was an act of love since she did it shortly after I came out to her and all was in shambles.
Twice a year we split the apartment in two during an afternoon so I can dress. She never saw me nor photographs and I am good with that. I tell her what I do, when I order an item, and that's about it. It's been more than two years since the reveal and while we used to have long conversations about it they receded and are pretty rare now. I don't know if that's a good sign or bad sign, but the lines of conversation are open, so.
Good for you to have a participating SO, make sure you keep her a place in the sun and make her feel special too.

[TamT]

My SO found a "female kit" I had hidden between my things few years after we marry. I never told her and purged before the marriage ("it should cure me"), but I started buying things again and dressing when she was away from the city for some days, which it happened many times a year. She thought I was dating someone else, so I came out to her and told her that the dress, shoes, pantyhose and underwear in that kit was mine.

We had The Talk, we went to a couples therapy, and a DADT was suggested. She didn't accept that and quit the therapy, requesting him to fix me. She knows I still have a lot of sealed boxes in the basement (the kit was the top of the iceberg) and keeps reminding me to discard them. She had trashed lots of my female things whenever she find a forgotten one, or when she is upset with me.

As she doesn't let me alone at home, I moved some of my things to the office, started underwearing there and, later, using female jeans, blouses and sweaters, trying to mimic an androgynous style, but leaving from and returning to home wearing my male clothes. Sometimes, I got dolled during lunch time and went to a Mall in femme (like in my avatar), a couple of hours that de-stresses me and lowers anxiety.

So, my DADT is more like "beware because I'm over you" and, as Monica said, it's painful to have to be dishonest with her about my own feelings and what I've done, just because I don't want to upset her.

[Jane P]

Mine is more DADT NIMBY (not in my back yard). It is ok if others cross dress just not me! It is even ok if the sons boyfriend transitions to female, just not me! She loves Billy Porter but I am not allowed to like him(her). Just pisses me off sometimes. Dual standards. But I bite my tong and go on since I did not bring it up before we were married, she did not sign up for this. My burden, my fault.


Yeah don't you just love double standards. Respect others for who and what they are " you freak"

I should probably clarify that this is how it feel it is more than how it is. I brought it up years ago and there's been no discussion then or since about anything other than about day to day necessities. I don't push it or flaunt it we don't talk about it. For others it is the way they are and that's okay.

[missjoann49]

I can honestly say I have never had that problem. My late wife was very supportive, and of recent
my daughter has become supportive also

[Christie ann]

Same here Monica. Rather than DADT, I consider myself NANA - she'll Never Accept my crossdressing and I'll Never Admit that I'm still doing it. Yes, I know the deception is not good but it's either that or give up the other 95% of our life that is perfectly okay.

Yes, NANA seems to be where we are these days.

[Kellyxx]

Told my wife a few weeks back after almost 24 years of marriage. We're firmly DADT. Hopefully that will change over time, but can't take that for granted.