Spotting other crossdressers

[Mackem Sue]

I was travelling down to the coast near where I live a few days ago. No, male mode that day and a planned 10 mile walk along at times a rough cliff top isn't a great plan for en femme and in heels.

Two what appeared to be two fairly slim, tall ladies got on my train. Me being me, I looked.

Then the penny dropped. They'd marginally overdone their make-up and consequently gave themselves away to other passengers as crossdressers as was clear from the stares from one.

Fair enough they didn't say anything and just left them be.

But lesson of the day with make-up is if you want to pass, be more subtle with the make-up. If they'd toned it down, they'd have passed.

Sue

[Marissa Q]

First off, great to see/hear that you spotted other crossdressers in your area; I think it's wonderful that there are courageous girls out there who willing to go out in public.

Secondly, you said a mouthful. Subtlety with makeup is a much-vaunted skill and something that I know I have to work on, because sometimes it's soooo much easier to lather it on and overdo it. Thanks for the reminder, Sue!

[kimdl93]

Astute observation. I think the experienced blender wisely chooses attire and makeup that are a bit understated. To paraphrase the old saying I would rather tone it down than glam up and remove all doubt!

That being said, of course there are times and places when its just plain and entirely appropriate (and fun) to go over the top in both clothes and makeup!

[Leslie Mary S]

As a rule, I don't look to see if they are CDers.
Sue, Glad you were being observant, more than I.
I know of two CDer here in my area that work in femme as sales reps in a store.
They might have been "working girls, i.e. actresses/models" off to, or returning from a work site." and yes a few CDers are working models.
I would love to get a few in front of my camera.
Tomorrow, I have a shoot scheduled with some DQs, so I know a bit about excess makeup.

[Karren H]

Being subtle and blending is overrated. I think maybe they wanted to stand out and nothing wrong with that!

[AngelaYVR]

To notice marginally overdone makeup says that you were looking intently anyway. Which means the jig would have been up no matter what. Like many of us, I am tall. I have tailored my makeup for daytime but I am 6' plus the heels and in a skirt or dress. People will notice me whether I have the most subtle or full Drag Race look and you know what, I don't mind! My goal is not to convince anyone I'm a genetic woman, my goal is for me to enjoy my life. I'm going to assume two CDs getting on a train together have also mastered the art of not giving a hoot.

[MonicaPVD]

Your observations remind me of a guy who bought an orange Subaru because he wanted something different. Except that he soon realized there are tons of orange Subarus around. He had never sought them out before.

[Helen_Highwater]

Enough is as good as a feast. If going out in the day I now deliberately don't spend too much time doing my makeup. You can keep layering it on and still find fault so I try to keep it toned down sufficiently to cover the most obvious things such as beard.

[Maria 60]

Well at least you seen some, my wife commented a while ago if I decided to go out dressed that I would be the only one she would have seen. She said either we all blend in or we just don't notice them. She asked where is your community hiding,
I believe if I went out in public I would probably overdue everything and look like a clown and stand out. Practice makes perfect and maybe the ones you seen they were still learning but good to hear that we are out there.

[kimdl93]

Enough is as good as a feast.

Totally agree.

[Patience]

Then the penny dropped. They'd marginally overdone their make-up and consequently gave themselves away to other passengers as crossdressers as was clear from the stares from one.I think I know the ladies in question. Lol.

326866

[docrobbysherry]

Do u really think "subdued make up" is the key to passing, Sue?

That less makeup makes a man look like a woman?:eek:

[Kris Burton]

Perhaps not, but certainly less attention grabbing, and more capable of blending. Unless standing out is your goal, less can be more.

[Mackem Sue]

I think I know the ladies in question. Lol.

326866

No, not Little Britain-style. 😀 Clothes, hair, just about right.

Make-up slapped on with trowel.

Sue

- - - Updated - - -


Do u really think "subdued make up" is the key to passing, Sue?

That less makeup makes a man look like a woman?:eek:

See previous answer.

Sue

[MiniRock]

To notice marginally My goal is not to convince anyone I'm a genetic woman, my goal is for me to enjoy my life.

Well said Angela. And, moreover, it's an entirely realizable goal.

[Mackem Sue]

As a rule, I don't look to see if they are CDers.
Sue, Glad you were being observant, more than I.
I know of two CDer here in my area that work in femme as sales reps in a store.
They might have been "working girls, i.e. actresses/models" off to, or returning from a work site." and yes a few CDers are working models.
I would love to get a few in front of my camera.
Tomorrow, I have a shoot scheduled with some DQs, so I know a bit about excess makeup.

All fair comment, notably the bit where you don't go out to see if they're CD'ers. I didn't look to see if they were CD'ers and at first I didn't think they were. I'm still a man at the end of the day and shapely women make me at the very least glance in their direction.

The overkill on the make-up just made me and another passenger pay more attention that usual.

I'll add at another stop, a woman pushed her severely disabled sister on the train on a wheelchair. The latter event was an object lesson on things that really mattered.

Sue.

[Jane G]

Recognised many crossdressers over the years. All you can do is allow them to continue and enjoy what they have. Always brings an inward smile though.

[AngelaYVR]

It is interesting that you can tie this thread to the one about FaceApp. In the real world, we do what we can - there is no magic to present a perfect visage.

[rachellegsep]

There are other tell tale signs eg prominent chins and adams apple (a necklace / cleavage moves the view downwards), large hands, walking, posture, mannerisms and voice. I think women will pick up on these a lot quicker than men.

[char GG]

The signs that jump out to me that someone is a Crossdresser are gait/posture (head jutted forward), walking like a man but wearing women"s clothes, unnatural looking hair (usually due to the type of wig), overdressed for the venue, and makeup that is overdone.

There are a few more things that are secondary but usually would require a closer look. The casual shopper is not going to search out details.

[MonicaPVD]

Char,
Gait and posture are everything. Unnatural looking hair including an abundance of hair that does not compute with the person's apparent age and the dreaded helmet head caused by wearing the hairline so low that it eliminates any trace of a forehead. (PSA: Most cis women have glorious foreheads). And, yes, the reliable over dressing and over makeuping, especially in the USA where most middle aged cis women dress like they rolled out of bed ten minutes before hitting Walmart.

[Stephanie47]

The first time I spotted cross dressers was in San Francisco in the 1970's. I was with a group of fellow trainees in a restaurant. Two attractively dressed ladies stood up to leave. What really drew my attention was their height. That caused me to look closer. Nobody else in the restaurant gave them a second look. Perhaps the locals were totally use to cross dressers, and, my mind's eye was subconsciously searching. In my small city I have seen one cross dresser twice, and, it was obvious to me she was an exhibitionist. The second was so hirsute she looked like a bear. No attempt to adopt female mannerisms. I figured, at least, they had the guts to get out there in stores. With my six foot height my comfort zone is an evening stroll in dress and heels, etc in a safe residential neighborhood.

[Paulie Birmingham]

In my last city is was well known that CDs would gather to grocery shop at a local groceey store sunday morning. Definitely could spot several cds but im sure more just blended in. There was also a cd happy hours night at a local bar/restaurant. Definitely xould spot several cds but im.sure many more just blended in.

[Cheshire girl]

There are a couple of CDers locally who look absolutely dreadful. Stubbly beards shocking makeup and one totters round the town in a short fake leather skirt and fishnets. They attract lots of weird looks.

[AngelaYVR]

Yes except that is not making any effort, merely a spectacle. Nobody is going to debate subtlety in that example.

[Pumped]

I have seen only one CD'er in the wild, and she was wild! I question if there was not some mental issues, (worse than we normally have!). It was a guy in a dress, clothing all wrinkled and odd colors, didn't fit, and a terrible job of make up. a lot of beard shadow. Hair was a bit longer, at least for a guy. We were shopping in a store and she seemed to just be shopping too.

[Kris Burton]

I have seen only one CD'er in the wild, and she was wild!

I concur Pumped, you very rarely see Cders in the "wild". However, I suspect there are far more than we realize. Look at how many of us here go out publicly without attracting undue attention if any - unless that's the goal of course. This is where the artistry of the Cder steps in - the ability to create an image that blends in yet while remaining stylish, feminine, even sexy without being overt - and as many have said not just with clothing or makeup but mannerisms as well. Not many of us truly "pass" - but "blending" ah, now that's a goal!

[Mackem Sue]

@Kris Burton

Apparently, underdressing is noticed more often than you'd imagine during hospital admissions.

Sue.

[michelleddg]

I've seen sisters in the wild from time to time, but have always let it go. Except once...

https://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?237221-Tribe-Member-encounter-Mini-tale

Hugs, Michelle

[jamienoir]

I seen a few CDers before (especially when I lived in Chicago). The one that stands out the most was some years. I was in a coffee shop/bookstore and saw her strut from a hotel across the way lol. As she got closer it was a obvious she was a CD. Reason why: She was dressed like a girl from a 80s rock band video. High heels, short denim skirt and big 80s hair. She looked great though. Makeup was perfect.

[Bianca Fay]

A few months ago I was in a convenience store. I was the only customer and was at the till. Just as I was paying for my purchases, a man walked in wearing a short, tight skirt, black nylons, and high heels. He wasn't wearing makeup and he had very short hair. He was clearly a man wearing women's clothes. He walked in like he owned the joint. I had no interest in talking to him, but I would have liked to hear what the young, female cashier would have said to him.

I often read posts here that claim SAs don't broach the subject, but I can't imagine that the girl in this situation wouldn't at least mention his attire.

[Marissa Q]

Out of curiosity.... If any of you publicly shop for women's clothing -- but dressed in drab -- ever encounter another man next to you doing the same? If so, have you ever broached the subject with him, made a comment, gave him a knowing nod/wink, etc?

[Pumped]

Marissa, I never see men shopping the women's side of the store. As often that you hear about it one would think it would happen once in while.

[Wendy-Lyn]

@ Pumped:

I went and bought some makeup while dressed (my first time ever in a store while dressed) but I do always shop for dresses, bras etc. while in drab.
Haven't had any issues over it, and have only ever spotted one other guy - he was looking at panties and was also in drab. We did not speak.

[Zuzana]

I am sure I was looking weird when I went out in public. But beginings are always difficult. It was in different city and in lgbt friendly part of it so that helped me a lot and also covid masks help actually. But yep, make up was very overdone and badly done, because I just don't have much knowledge avout it. Also my style was probably bit unnatural and I just didn't know where to hide my huge hands. I felt like my hands are 5 times bigger then usually :-D

[Marsha Louise]

Plenty of my friends and neighbors have already seen me dressed, at least partially, in feminine attire, and so far no one has ever made a negative or teasing remark.
More often than not, I get compliments on my wardrobe choices, especially (no surprise) from women.
When I express my feminine side, I do it in plain sight as if it's the most natural thing to do. I'm not trying to draw attention; I'm having fun doing it, and I think people pick up on that positive energy and accept me better for who I am and how I'm dressed.

[Mackem Sue]

I'll add a few bits and pieces this thread as it that says perhaps we are what we are and we need to be "that person".

Northumbria University in the United Kingdom allegedly got the nickname the 'Transvestite University' for a while, due to three members of staff at the time undergoing gender reassignment treatment during the 1990s. One of the gents (Arts) opting for reassignment actually looked a pretty convincing and very attractive redhead.

The curiosity aroused amongst Northumbria students about another trans lecturer also led to one class (Economics) being led by one having 60 students turning up at the beginning of the term out of blind curiosity when there were only 30 students enrolled on the course. The curiosity waned after a week or so.

However, you cannot always escape your "male" past post-op. Later the remaining member of the three that remained at Northumbria years later developed male pattern baldness (as a she, she'd grown her hair long - imagine a man with an 80s-style mullet going bald). Time for a decent wig I guess.

I'll add I encountered one of the three when a masters student at neighbouring Newcastle University. I suspect that was the one who years later was the one who developed male pattern baldness.

Then there was the irony being for me that I ended up a Ph.D. candidate some years later at Northumbria University myself (and yes, after a serious load of crap, I became Dr. Sue). For good measure, I was assigned a line manager during post-doc that was a suspect transvestite in the words of a senior colleague. Private and personal, I never pushed the matter though a secretary I was good friends with insisted he was. She never knew I was a sister too.

A further instance is during that time, I was drinking with two colleagues in a bar called Luckies in Newcastle's Haymarket area (now called Five Swans - a Wetherspoons pub for those in the UK - they bought out Luckies) and the lady colleague of the three of us went to the toilet.

She shouted out saying "Look" as she rejoined us. Controversial subject time as she pointed back at the toilet door. A crossdresser was leaving the lady's toilet (would you, wouldn't you use a ladies toilet?), blatantly obvious due to the worst wig I have ever seen and one reason I am very careful with wigs.


Sue

(P.S. There's another story about it very nearly being called the "City University of Newcastle-upon-Tyne", but I'll leave well be - an administrative mess-up, look at the initails - apologies).

[ellbee]

She asked where is your community hiding...

I'll answer that: Hiding! :wave2:


First of all, I have a hunch that it's actually a much smaller community than many here seem to believe.

IOW? There's simply not that many CD'ers out there, behind closed doors or not.


And more important? Of that small percentage of CD'ers, only a fraction of them venture out into public.


Yeah, sure, you'll find a bunch at an LGBT club, or some kinda Pride event, or whatever.

But out in the everyday vanilla world, amongst the muggles? Yeah, ain't happening, sister! :heehee:

Too many simply can't do it, for whatever reasons or hang-ups. No, it's not always easy, getting started with that.


Some push forth, though. But odds are, you're rarely gonna see 'em out in the wild -- for the simple fact that not many are doing that!

Brave are the few.


I simply stopped caring, at some level. If I feel like wearing an outfit obviously consisting entirely of "women's" clothes? Then yeah, I'm gonna wear it (which is like every day :heehee: ).

And I don't even bother trying to present as female, 99% of the time. Just me in femmy guy-mode -- wearing "girl-clothes"! :p

(Of course, things like hoods & freshly-shaven faces come in handy, too, to help minimize the male features. But I'm still not hiding the fact that I'm a natal male. ;) )


Passing? What is this "passing" that you speak of? :strugglin :laughing:

[Pumped]

elbee, "And more important? Of that small percentage of CD'ers, only a fraction of them venture out into public."

That part I would say is very accurate, but I believe there are a lot of "undocumented cross dressers".

Most guys would rather die than admit then wear women's clothing.

[AngelaYVR]

Ellbee, that is why if you are going to be seen then you had better be looking gooood! We do not want to give a muggle a poor show for his one and only sighting.

[Helen_Highwater]

Reading these replies really makes the case for dressing to blend. A good many of the replies talk about badly dress, inappropriately dressed CD'ers and how easily they stand out.

I've met a few from our community who really would be difficult to spot in a crowd if like everyone else you're just going about your own business. You'd walk buy them unless you really looked.

What amazes me is those who post videos on FB, do look good, have it pretty much nailed down and then blow it by wearing a too short skirt with say stocking tops showing. They must like the attention it brings or it satisfies some other desire they have. Look, each to their own but it will confirm those stereotypes some muggles have of our community and not for the better sadly.

[StephanieLake]

My wife and I were in Macy's shopping for dresses one Sunday afternoon. She says, "You're not the only guy looking for a dress today." I followed her gaze and saw a tall CD browsing the racks. What made her stand out? Well, it could have been the outlandish makeup, the way too short skirt, or the fishnet stockings. I made a decision right then that if my wife ever lets me go out fully dressed I would dress to blend. My taste does run to the younger look, she says it's because I never got to go through that phase, but that day made me decide I would need two sides of my closet. One for younger sexier outfits and the other for my going out in public ones. I have no delusions that I'll be passable, but I don't want to draw attention to myself.

[MonicaPVD]

Helen, you made me chuckle. I am not shy about wearing provocative outfits when going out to a party after dark, but there's a time and a place for everything. I, too, am amazed by these very attractive CDers on YouTube who would have no trouble passing or blending in but for the fact that they are wearing the most outlandish outfits in the moment. As you mention, they're going out in the middle of the day wearing a tiny tiny skirt or mini dress the likes of which haven't been seen in public since Motley Cr?e dropped their last video 35 years ago. God bless them but it is, in fact, quite silly.




What amazes me is those who post videos on FB, do look good, have it pretty much nailed down and then blow it by wearing a too short skirt with say stocking tops showing. They must like the attention it brings or it satisfies some other desire they have. Look, each to their own but it will confirm those stereotypes some muggles have of our community and not for the better sadly.

[Pumped]

I love the tiny minis and tight clothing, but I certainly would not wear it out.

Jeans, boots, a simple top and jacket.

[Sandi Beech]

Reading all the responses is interesting, but I think we have unrealistic expectations for passing. Granted some can pass.

Toning down the makeup is not going to save you from being outed. There are just too many subtle clues an observant person can pick up. You miss one and that observant person will know. They will likely not say anything, so lack of being called out is NOT passing. But then again, who cares. That is why I wear whatever I want. Sometimes I do tone it down. I was only using lipstick and my wig with women's sunglasses when I went to lunch this week. The waitress tells me she thinks I am beautiful indicating to me she knew. My body frame is just too large. No one cares - in this case , especially if she wants a large tip which she got : )

True that very short skirts etc., will draw peoples attention. It draws my attention as well when it is a GG. So in that sense toning it down can reduce the probing eyes, but do not assume that will make you pass. Again it just does not matter.

The unfortunate thing about stereotyping is that no matter how much we dress to the norm, that stereotyping is not going to go away unless someone can stop the way Internet search engines respond. I Googled my name and crossdresser and I get porn. Sad but true and it is not me incidentally. I really deplore what search engines pull up sometimes.

Sandi

[ellbee]

I've met a few from our community who really would be difficult to spot in a crowd if like everyone else you're just going about your own business. You'd walk by them unless you really looked.

Yep, I've seen some pics here or elsewhere, where it's like, "Okay, that's something you'd see a typical everyday GG wearing, while she's out & about... Even has X, Y & Z going on, which is a really good touch! :thumbsup:"


Obviously in-person is the real test, but seeing pics like that does give hope!

Ain't nothing wrong with blending, folks. :battingeyelashes:


[SIDE NOTE: I've noticed that sometimes the CD'er informs us that their wife/GF had picked out the outfit -- which makes sense. :p But again, ain't nothing wrong with that. Valuable asset to have!]



Anyway, in my CD'ing "line of work"? I *have* to blend, at least to some degree -- or else I'm toast.

As mentioned, 99% of the time I'm wearing a full GG-outfit... While presenting as male, that is. :heehee:

Heck, I'm dressed like that right now. Ran into a GG-neighbor like half an hour ago, in the apartment hallway... She didn't even bat an eye, as we said our "Hello, how are you's."

And wanna know why? Because I'm wearing what a typical everyday GG would be wearing here, today, while doing similar activities. Totally natural to be seeing that.

Is it strange-looking for a natal male to be wearing it? Not really, IMO... Because I'm also "tailoring" it to suit my individual needs, preferences, etc. And yes, taking into account that a particular male body is being dressed, is most definitely a big consideration.


A good GG-wardrobe that works for you on a daily basis, for both private & public settings, does take a lot of effort, though, especially while still establishing it. I've been at this off & on basically my entire life... And one tends to pick up a few things along the way. ;)

Honestly, these days I feel like I've never been better dressed. Very pleased! :)

[AngelaYVR]

I am going out on a limb but I think the people who make those videos watch them at some point and are fully aware they stand out. They are also trying to generate views on YouTube and are probably not thinking they are providing instructions for disappearing into a sea of beige, bland and boring. You want to hide? Hide. Otherwise it seems we need to put a saucer of milk out here for some of you.

[MonicaPVD]

The last time someone left a saucer of milk for me, they forced me to crawl up to it and lap some up. Not a fan of the taste but oh so much fun! 😂

[Wendy-Lyn]

I always dress age-appropriate and I try to blend. I cannot pass so I don't really try, but I do try not to look too much like an MIAD. I want to LOOK like a 60-ish year-old woman even if I can't pass as one. And since my dressing isn't fetish-based and I don't like to look like a tart, I never do the ultra-short skirt/big boobs/fishnets and heels thing. I do have a short mini-dress but would never dream of wearing it in public. I also have no desire to attract unwanted (in other words, ANY) attention from men.

Today, for example, I spent all day as Wendy, driving around photographing trains and scenic spots, and flying my drone. One bloke I got into a discussion with called me 'mate' as we parted company, but since we'd been chatting it was obvious to him that I was a guy, so I just owned it. No-one else gave me a second glance all day, and I doubt they really even noticed me. I wore sandals with ankle-stockings, jeans, a 'Sloppy Joe' top over a bra and my C-cup forms, and my auburn wig. I had my favourite bracelets on both wrists, a lady's watch and an ankle-chain.

I have learned that one does not need a dress or a skirt to look and feel like a woman.

[TheHiddenMe]

Yes, I have seen transgender women in public. Are they crossdressers (one subset of the transgender population)? How do I know? I don't know who they are. Do they dress part-time? Full-time? Have they transitioned? I don't know. The whole premise of this topic is incorrect, because you don't know the individual you saw was a crossdresser.

One of the first I saw was at Nordstrom in Chicago. Olive was young, and gorgeous, and pretty--and clearly transgender. I knew it immediately. So much for the idea that we pass; there are clear signs. She had transitioned but it was clear she was transgender.

I have seen (what I believe to be) other transgender individuals when out, both in the US and in Europe. Of course, because I am trans (and I'm trans because I'm a crossdresser, and don't start the label argument with me), I am more aware to look for trans people in public. I also belong to a transgender group, which includes individuals on all ranges of the spectrum.

Blending, IMO, is overrated. People are going to know that you are trans. If you want to wear jeans, wear jeans. If you want to wear a dress, wear a dress. I assume people will know I'm a guy in a dress, but I want to make sure I'm in a pretty dress.

You know the funny thing? I'm more interesting to people because I AM a guy in a dress, and because of that, I've made friends and acquaintances the guy me would have NEVER met, and those friends and acquaintances have enriched my life.

Just quit shaming people how they choose to dress. We want tolerance from others but look down upon those who don't follow the "right" rules how to crossdress. Enough is enough.

[ellbee]

I believe part of it may be that we all have different various needs & desires & preferences, when it comes to all this.

For example, some just want to go about their business like everyone else -- only do it as like a GG-extra on a movie set, to put it one way. Just kinda in the background, with no real role?

I know I can get like that, nothing bad about it. Sometimes it can produce an effect of, "Well, this is what it can kinda feel like to be a GG, just living a normal everyday life, going about her day. Hey, I think I can live with this! :thumbsup:" (Whether that's actually legit or not, is another matter... But because that's the way they feel internally? Then so be it? :strugglin )


Another aspect, is it's easy to fall into the never-ending rabbit-hole of "passing." Speaking from past experience? It can potentially be psychologically unhealthy.

Besides, the majority of CD'ers are going to have a difficult time passing with GG's, anyway. IOW, it probably ain't gonna happen. Here's the thing, though... They know who you are -- and many of them don't care! From what I've seen, they'd much rather you just be yourself, instead of maybe ending up trying too hard, ya know?


CD'ers just need to have a healthy relationship with it all. What that means to them, is a unique & personal thing, and might be different from others. :)

[Krisi]

I have posted many times that if you want to or expect to pass as a woman, you need to look like the women around you. And that means don't do makeup like you are going to a night club, do just what you need to do to cover up your male features.

Clothing and shoes are the same. Don't wear heels to the mall. In many areas, you wouldn't even wear a dress to the mall.

Learn what women are wearing in your area and wear the same things.