Are closet Cross Dressers Less Sociable. Nature or Nurture?

[Jane G]

Something I just read in another thread got me thinking. Are those of us that choose to remain in the closet, naturally less sociable. I was brought up in the city. As a teen I loved clubbing and especial dancing. But I also loved to dress and never felt able to combine the two, as I could never pass. At 19 I joined the RN. I could never, at that time, share my true self with my ship mates and by 21 I was T total and thereafter kept my self to my self. Spending most of my evening on my section, sat at my computer coding, rather than down the mess. I got on fine with all on board I just seldom chose to socialize with them. Time ashore was mostly spent exploring the nearest hills to the allotted port a love I retain. When I could I would dress but opportunities were few. Time at home I still enjoyed clubbing with my wife. But I was never one to go to the pub with the lads. I just found that a total bore. Often I thought how nice it would be to just go out and be one of the girls. I have never found an opportunity to live that evening. My relationship with my wife, rules out that I pursue it. So it will remain an is the grass greener question.

So back to the question. Am I / are you less sociable because of crossdressing or do you think your level of social interactivity would have been the same regardless. For me I think it has made a considerable difference.

[CharlotteCD]

Crossdressing and transgenderism has been linked with autism in recent studies.

Autism is linked with social skill deficiencies.

Correlation/causation are not the same thing of course, but it's interesting.

I'm on the high functioning autism side, and also transgender.

[Aunt Kelly]

We are all individuals. What a cross-dresser calls going out, a TS might call just doing life. Likewise, crossdressers who enjoy going out en femme, may do so for different reasons. Some relish the adrenaline rush. Some enjoy the affirmation, however brief. Those that prefer to remain closeted do so for a similar variety of reasons.
As for me (not a CD), I can only say that I have never enjoyed "clubbing" is it's own diversion. Don't get me wrong. I love loud music as much as the next girl, but I tend to prefer picking my own genre or play list. :)

[Sandi Beech]

I am far more sociable when dressed up. It is like night and day. Of course it has taken about 5 years of going out to get to where I am now. I had to get over the fear of going out first. Once past the fear, I forced myself to go outside of my comfort zone by talking to people. Eventually, socializing became my comfort zone, and now I seek out others every time I go out. I feel like it is an ongoing learning experience. I just wish I had the confidence I have now when I was younger. I missed out on a lot because of my shyness, and maybe that is a need that my dressing has allowed me to fulfill.

Strange but true.

Sandi

[Natalie5004]

When I am home dressed I do get lonely.
I step out shopping once in a while and I feel great.

[Jane G]

Great to read that Sandi. I do sometimes wish I could mix with other women and CD's dressed and what I am missing out on. Our relationship means I may never get to enjoy that. Though I enjoy so much where I am, I do sometimes long to know what it would be like to live and be excepted wholly or in kind, as female.

[Nikki Pink]

I feel I have become a little more open and social in general through life since I have been open with my dressing with my wife. I think it has to do with the stress of hiding who you are.

[Jane G]

I believe, in myself, that there is little stress where I am with crossdressing and life in general, so must disagree with that. Perhaps there are to many positives, out side of cross dressing, for me to realise what others have.

[DianeT]

Crossdressing and transgenderism has been linked with autism in recent studies.
Hi Charlotte, linked how? Any links to the studies you are alluding to?

- - - Updated - - -


Are those of us that choose to remain in the closet, naturally less sociable.
Like Aunt Kelly said, as many reasons as individuals. I'm not much inclined to share my dressing with others. Ok to speak about it, but not show or seek advice for my presentation etc. So going out dressed would probably be a thrill, but it's not the kind of thrill I'm looking for. I am very sociable by nature, I love to meet and discuss with people. But my secret place is my secret place.
Side note, it's not clear to me if you are asking whether people are in the closet because they aren't sociable, or if they aren't sociable because they are in the closet.

[Genifer Teal]

At a time back when things were hidden, I was quite. There was so much I did I couldn't talk about. Great times with friends I couldn't tell anyone who wasn't in the loop.

[Kris Burton]

I missed out on a lot because of my shyness, and maybe that is a need that my dressing has allowed me to fulfill.Sandi

Absolutely true for me as well. - it's as if crossdressing fills my experiential gap. If I had crossdressed as a young person, the story of my life would have been much different. I'm glad where I ended up, but there are a lot of memories I wish I had.

[Gillian Gigs]

[QUOTE=DianeT;4578831]Hi Charlotte, linked how? Any links to the studies you are alluding to? [QUOTE]

After being diagnosed with having Asperger's syndrome, high functioning end of the Autism spectrum, I have read several articles on the internet about the correlation between Autism and gender dysphoria. If you are interested just go looking, try starting with Asperger's and crossdressing. Then try Autism and transgenderism. As the expression goes, "seek and you will find"!

[Geena75]

I have never been highly sociable, mostly a rural homebody. I do have another hobby I enjoy, probably even more than this 'peculiar pastime,' in which I am very sociable within that circle. I would like to find a reasonable way to socialize with other CD'ers (beyond this site), but I'm still unsuccessfully working on it.

Interesting phrase "choose to be closeted." In my case it is a closet within a closet within a closet. Suppose I were to come out of the household closet and it went well, I would still be in the outside family and friends closet, and then the workplace closet. I firmly believe that if I came out of the closet with the spouse it would mean the end of my limited cross-dressing. The most likely long term plan would be giving it up altogether.

[Jane G]

I have never been highly sociable, mostly a rural homebody. I do have another hobby I enjoy, probably even more than this 'peculiar pastime,' in which I am very sociable within that circle. I would like to find a reasonable way to socialize with other CD'ers (beyond this site), but I'm still unsuccessfully working on it.

Interesting phrase "choose to be closeted." In my case it is a closet within a closet within a closet. Suppose I were to come out of the household closet and it went well, I would still be in the outside family and friends closet, and then the workplace closet. I firmly believe that if I came out of the closet with the spouse it would mean the end of my limited cross-dressing. The most likely long term plan would be giving it up altogether.

An interesting assumption Geena, though my own thoughts would be , if those closest agree, then others can think what they like. I remain closeted because my wife asks it of me and I respect her wishes. No longer because of the wider world. Though as a younger person there were many reasons to hide, I don't see them as nearly such an obstacle as they once were and would likely be out there, if it were not for my love and belief in her. Funny old world, many things to experience and enjoy and still many compromises to make.

[JustJennifer]

I'm not a social butterfly, never have been, and equating sociability with clubbing is going down a path I know I can't follow. When I was much much younger, more foolish, and fairly desperate, I did venture out to some accepting places, but I just didn't fit in. No regrets, and nothing horrible happened (beyond getting ditched) but it just wasn't for me.

So nowadays I'm in the closet, and though I'd like to get out and about dressed again, I just don't see old Jennifer chatting up strangers less than half her age in a nightclub or bar being part of that experience. I assume my wife wouldn't be too crazy about my doing that either... if only because she's under the impression that the streets of the city are flooded with crazed criminals as soon as the sun sets.

Still, for all you "more experienced" ladies here who still make the scene, dancing and drinking til the cows come home, you go girl!

[Sometimes Steffi]

I have found that Steffi is much more extroverted than boy me.

I have taken the Myers-Briggs test several times with professional analysis. On the MB scale boy me shows up as an introvert; in fact, he pins the scale on introverted. Steffi is much more extroverted. Steffi has gone out en femme for 15 years now, usually with a bunch of trans girls, but sometimes alone or with cis girls. When I'm out with trans girls, I'm in a public space and often meet friendly cis girls. I'm much more fun socially as an extrovert so I've been trying to import Steffi's extroversion into boy me's personality, somewhat successfully, I might add.

I know that your asking if girls stay in the closet less sociable. My response is that I'm more sociable being out of the closet.

[Helen_Highwater]

Fear of the unknown, of how relationships with SO's, family and friends could be effected probably has more to do with someone remaining in the closet than their sociability.

I feel that my social interaction is a bout the same regardless of how I'm dressed.

[Stephanie47]

The short answer is no. The issue is where does a cross dressing man go to socialize with others? The only thing I read about on this forum is clubbing. I find drinking and clubbing to be totally boring. I suspect it is easier for transgender men and women, gays and lesbians, and cross dressers to find social outlets in urban areas. Where else do cross dressing men go to congregate? Basically, show up in a dress in any other place and you're going to be isolated.

[Pumped]

I know I am a bit introverted, not as bad as some. I wonder about autism. I took an online test a while back, (probably means nothing!) but it told me I was mildly autistic. I have done some research over the years in regard to autism and firmly believe I have it to a degree.
Last summer I was visiting with my daughter and she brought it up. Mentioned how he hates being in public, large groups, noisy gatherings, hates interviewing for jobs, and more. I mentioned that I felt l am a bit autistic too and she just looked at me in disbelief. She said to me, "But Dad, you worked in outside sale for years, how could you be autistic?" I went on to tell her how terrible and frightening it was for me. Meeting a new customer I would get so ill I thought I was going to throw up! I would have to sit in my vehicle and talk myself into it. It was tough on me, but the job paid well I wanted to make some money and could not figure any other way to earn what I felt we needed so for years I put myself through hell.

I remember giving classes to customers and their employees. I would try to get a meeting room where there was a bar so I could loosen up with a couple shots before and keep them coming through the meeting! Never seriously drunk, just a bit buzzed.

[docrobbysherry]

I have met many 100's of dressers out at various event. Some of them chat up everyone wherever they r.:devil:

Some r like me, shy with strangers and much more outgoing in small groups I know or one on one. Or, when I'm drinking!:)

My experience tells me I'm the same whether I'm dressed or not. And, so r most other dressers!:thumbsup:

[MarinaTwelve200]

It is a PRIVATE thing I do where I have complete FREEDOM! I do not have to worry about being laughed at or making "mistakes" or to conform to the rules or styles of others.---- I am "Sociable enough" in fields of OTHER endeavors. I just prefer to keep my CDing private.

[DianeT]

After being diagnosed with having Asperger's syndrome, high functioning end of the Autism spectrum, I have read several articles on the internet about the correlation between Autism and gender dysphoria. If you are interested just go looking, try starting with Asperger's and crossdressing. Then try Autism and transgenderism. As the expression goes, "seek and you will find"!
Thanks Gillian. You can find studies linking the two indeed for a fraction of the population. But the way Charlotte expressed it I wondered if it meant TG = autist (not SOME TG are autist). Trying to disambiguate this.

[Mary Loo]

I would say there is no correlation, but I understand the hypothesis. For me it is more about age (not necessarily maturity per se). Meaning as I have aged and become more comfortable with my (male ) self, I have become more social and comfortable in social situations. Not true when I was young.

However, to reinforce your theory a little, Mary is technically very young (to me) and consequently very shy/closeted. However, I am also closeted for many other defensive reasons and I am pretty confident my wife wouldn’t approve either.

[Veronica Lacey]

Hi Jane...

In my youth I enjoyed personal private time as much as meeting up with friends. As life moved forward and friends moved away and such I did not often seek out replacement social activities. I also found that if I wanted to dress then at home I would need to remain. My wife - being a social person - goes out a bit here and there so I stay home to do my thing rather than seek out time with friends.

So I believe that I would have grown into a comfortable introvert-like life regardless of dressing but cannot deny that my desire for time dressing has limited my desires for social interaction. Not set in stone but that's where it's at.

[Debbie Denier]

I agree with Marina. I am a private person that enjoys socialising, in a non CD way. CD is my private pleasure. It would be nice to share it with someone. But realistically outside the forum it is very unlikely to happen.

[GretchenM]

I have always been pretty much a loner in many ways. I can be sociable for awhile, but then I get bored with all the small talk and I tend to get curious about something else. A bit of ADD? Maybe. And some autistic people do engage in gender shifting, but it is very unlikely the cause of their gender shifting. It is more likely a consequence rather than a cause. But they are still like everybody else - variable.

Nevertheless, simple cross dressing and the more pronounced form that includes well defined transgender behavior may cause a person to be less sociable to avoid the discrimination and prejudice. If the dressing/gender shift is or becomes an important need then it may cause a person to isolate themselves more so they can more freely be themselves without the concern of being found out or suffering various degrees of abuse as a result of practicing their need. However, it seems that just being less gregarious and social (a degree of shyness) might need to precede the isolation when engaged in gender expression shifting for whatever reason.

It appears to me clear signs of gender expression is much more acceptable now than it was back in the 1950's and early 60's when it could get you in deep trouble. Thus the younger people who did not experience those times are much more willing to go out and be social in a so-called gender reversed way. Of course, in most it is not really gender reversal except in comparison to the masses; it is actually just being themselves.

Jane, I think the description of yourself is not a great deal different than the way I would describe significant parts of my history. And I think each person's history, which only they know with great intimacy, forms the quilt of their life. It is all connected; there really are not any pieces floating by themselves in orbit around the main pattern. But if you look at even the finest quilt closely you will find many errors that are not readily visible and yet they form the individuality in the beauty of the quilt.

[Michaela Jane]

I have never been one to go socializing very much, even as a kiddie. I was always "at the back" of gatherings and stuff. I also joined the RN at 19, in the mid '60s & although I enjoyed my time serving, I was never much of a messdeck raver, preferring my own company. Dressing wasn't a thing for me until my mid 50s and now, 20 years later, I still enjoy my own company when wearing skirts or dresses. I hardly ever wear mens clothes these days, almost everything I wear comes from the female side of the stores even when I have to be in man mode out in the day to day world. If I have to socialize, it is usually with family and always in female clothes that make me, as the man people expect to see, look "right" for the situation.

[AmeeJo]

I am very sociable and outgoing except when it comes to my dressing. It is something I do just for me and I'm not quite ready to introduce AmeeJo to the real world. I am getting better at expressing myself and have taken some pretty big steps in the virtual world and some more subtle steps in my physical appearance. I love the thrill of underdressing! Maybe one day I'll go all in and venture out fully en femme. I'm very happy where I am right now and that is all that matters.

[AngelaYVR]

I would think most people who choose to remain in the closet are more likely to do so because they either have their needs met there or because some outside influence (wife, family, etc) prevents them from going further. If you are free of external restraints and wish to venture out but do not then I would chalk that up to fear that has yet to be surmounted.

I am not an especially sociable person but I go out regularly and am not forced into interaction when I do not want it but it is there when I do. Reading a book on a bench by the sea while wearing a summer dress is a magical way to spend those days you need a little quiet time but also wish to go out. Insert your preferred activity and it is off to the races!

[krissy]

For me it's like I become Krissy and she is more adventurous than I am

[Karren H]

I am super sociable in my normal life. But when dressing and going out enfemme, I am a loner. And I like it that way. I feel that this is a personal hobby, mine and mine alone. I am in full control of what I wear and how I look. My sociability has really not changed, even going from being in the closet and staying home to going out dressed. Still kind of in a closet, just a larger one with a view and outside access! Lol.

[SaraLin]

FWIW - I've always been socially awkward. I do OK in small groups of people I know well, but put me in a large group or among strangers and I tend to hide in the background.
This is true no matter whether I'm in male or female mode, but when I'm dressed and among strangers, the need to hide in greatly intensified,

I've also learned that I have a VERY difficult time looking anyone in the eye. I can't explain it well, but it almost feels like I'm being stripped naked if I do. (shudder)
So - to respond to CharlottCD's comments - I've heard that inability to look someone in the eye is also a trait of autism but I've never really been tested for it, so I guess I'll never know.
I did take one of those online tests and it said I was "borderline" - but I can't give these tests any real credibility.
It doesn't matter anyway. I am who (or what) I am, and it's a bit late in the game to worry about trying to change it.

[sometimes_miss]

FWIW, for those who wonder if perhaps they are 'on the spectrum' of autism, well, you all are. The mental health professions have expanded the definitions of autism so far, that virtually everyone can now be diagnosed with it. Check out the DSM5 and you will see what I mean. All you need is a friendly therapist and BINGO! You're now diagnosed as autistic.
I first noticed this expansion back with the DSM4, but now they've taken it even further. One theory, is that this has become acceptable in order to be able to diagnose any patient with this, in order to get them classified, and in that way insurance will cover the treatment for whatever they need.
Of course, the down side is, now that everyone in the world thinks that they are autistic, and those who truly are, aren't always getting the help that they need, because many don't believe that being autistic can be a crippling problem, since so many normal appearing people claim to have it.

[LilSissyStevie]

I'm probably a pretty good example of a "lone wolf" (schiziod) type personality. That's different than high functioning autism but often confused with it. I rarely socialize outside of my immediate family. I find being around even small groups of people exhausting and being in large crowds nearly intolerable. I can't understand why anyone would want to "go out" if no one is forcing you.


The mental health professions have expanded the definitions of autism so far, that virtually everyone can now be diagnosed with it.

One of my daughters is child psychologist who works in the school system. They are under pressure to hand out autism diagnoses in order to get kids resources who would otherwise fall through the cracks. So a kid who is maybe a little slow or has some slight emotional/behavioral issues or unclassifiable learning disabilities can get help they would otherwise not qualify for because their problems are not considered serious enough or trendy like autism. ASD it a catch all category but the system encourages it.