Thrilled, surprised, and more than a little confused.

[SaraLin]

I'm not sure what to think after a conversation my wife and I had last Sunday. I'm hoping that someone of you can share your thoughts on this - especially if you're one of the lovely GG's who are here.

It's a bit long - sorry

First, I'll share a brief background. Feel free to skip this paragraph if you already know my situation.
My wife and I are in what I call a semi-DADT situation. I wear panties all the time and always wear nighties to bed. No problems here.
Yes, I want more, but she isn't OK with anything else - so I don't. I love her and don't want to mess things up with her, so I keep quiet.
In my "away from her time" I'm likely to put on a dress, or more but with my retirement and her mobility issues, these times have dried up completely. I haven't been able to be fully dressed in a very long time and I do miss it.


OK, that said, it's time to talk about what I'm making this post for:

Sundays have gradually morphed into a kind of "blob day" where neither of bothers to change into our day clothes and we both stay in our nighties/PJ's all day.
Last Sunday, she suggested that I take advantage of the beautiful day and grill up some burgers and hot dogs (We both love the taste of charcoal grilled meats).
Jokingly, I said "What? and mess up blob day?"
Her response was "Well, just keep your nightie on while you're cooking."
Now - you need to know that While the backyard is fenced in and it would be a bit difficult for the neighbors to see in, it wouldn't be impossible. She has also always been VERY worried about anyone seeing me in anything feminine, so I was very surprised by this remark.
I said something along the lines of "what if someone sees me?"
Her response was something about how we don't know the people in the house that could see in (next street over, that backs up to us) and that all they'd see anyway was a "really ugly woman." [???thanks???]
I was tempted to take her up on her suggestion, but I decided to change instead, saying that I didn't want to get my "nice things" all messed up and smoky.
I have, since then, gotten bold enough to take trash and recycle out to the bins, and if I need some tool from the garage, I'll just go out and get it no matter how I'm dressed.

But I'm wondering.
Sundays have come to be my no-man-clothes, or "blob around in my nightie" days (her suggestion), but the last few Sundays, she has come up with something that has me changing back. Is this just a coincidence?

Is her attitude towards my dressing loosening up a little bit?

I had thought it might be some kind of "test", but I don't believe it to be true. She's much more direct than that.

I'd like to be able to just ask her, but she doesn't want to talk about it. All I get is some variation of "Can't you just wait till I'm dead?"
I hate to hear hear her saying things like that, so I just don't bring it up any more.

Any thoughts?

[GretchenM]

Wow, Sara. That is a rather difficult situation to figure what to do. So many mixed messages. I can really understand your confusion about it all. As you don't think it is a test (and I am not convinced it is either) I would have to conclude that she has reached a point where your wearing panties and a nightie is acceptable and OK. But then her tendency to come up with things that make you change into "non-blob" clothes (so to speak) is puzzling. But I suspect that is not intentional to get you to change clothes. I suspect it is more likely just something she would like you to do and doing it in "blob mode" is not really good.

It is also possible that because of her mobility issues she sees you as not only husband but a bit of her caregiver. Thus with that perspective she feels it is OK to make suggestions that come across as a bit more of an "order."

Hard to say what you should do about it, if anything, but I certainly sympathize with your situation. Perhaps having a talk about how to arrange the division of labor in your family is in order - a time to not only talk about the what that needs to be done but more importantly the feelings you each have about certain aspects. She needs to know that you are willing to help her but that does not include feeling like a servant and not having her give recognition of your needs as well as your recognition of her needs. Maybe it is a little too freeform at this time and by that I mean there are no boundaries of any kind that are appropriate for the situation that you two live in. Not firm boundaries but flexible boundaries based on the needs you both have without strong preference of one or the other.

[Stephanie47]

I'll throw my two cents in. My wife and I are in a deep "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" relationship since the mid 1980's. She has not commented about my desires; nor does she say anything negative concerning cross dressers. She is supportive of the trans community. In fact, on "The View" this past week there were drag queens from RuPaul Drag Race and all she commented on was some of the queens were less passable than others. She has a second cousin who is a transman.

Decades ago I was able to openly sleep in a nightgown. There was hosiery and a garter belt thrown in which seemed to enhance the bedroom activities. The crap hit the fan when our three year old daughter yanked a Vanity Fair vivid red bra out of the bottom draw of my armoire. "The Talk" ensured. I guess what I am getting to is I had progress from the little "kink" of a nylon gown to emulating a woman to which she responded; "If I wanted to be married to a woman; I would have married a woman." I do nothing to rub my desires in her face; no body modification at all. Fortunately, my genetic dna has blessed me with a lack of hair follicles on my leg. On a daily basis I looked like a 74 year old retiree; all scruffy and unshaven for days on end.

I am assuming your nightgowns are not overly feminine. If all your wife sees is a scruffy guy wearing a nightgown that vision may not appear feminine at all. Your male identity has not been lost. How much of your cross dressing does your wife know? The extent of your wardrobe? My wife, I am assuming, does not know the true extent of my femme wardrobe. So, it would be somewhat shocking or annoying for me to ask to wear a dress and more.

If your wife is aware that you own dresses, the next time you and your wife are settling into a hang around in nighties and pj's day, why not test the waters. Ask her if it would be alright to BBQ outside wearing a sundress covered with a full bib apron. The image may be nothing more than an unshaven "man in a dress." Underneath wear your panty and maybe a slip; both of which should be covered by the dress. I'd not try adding a stuffed bra as that may be going too far in emulating a woman; the visual.

Guys in our situations have to be going nuts. Before my wife fully retired I use to get full days to be en femme. Before covid she would babysit overnight at our daughter's apartment forty miles away. Now? Zip, nil, nadda. At best, after sleeping separately (medical reasons) in a nightgown I get to bang away on the computer wearing the nightie or like today in a bra, panty and full slip.

My wife and I have been married fifty years plus. I, like you, have been the sole caregiver during medical events. I would hope a wife would cut us some slack, realizing there is nobody else going to be there for them, and, they are not going to lose their scruff unshaven man. Hope this makes some sense.

[docrobbysherry]

U realize you're asking us to guess what your wife is thinking, Sara? Wouldn't u be the best one to do that?:straightface:

Alternately, she seems more open to your back yard forays than u r!?:heehee:

[char GG]

I would agree with Doc. We really have no idea why your wife said what she did. I wouldn't want to venture a guess about anyone else's situation.

I realize this isn't the answer that you want, but I think you should really ask your wife the question. We don't know her.

[OrdinaryAverageGuy]

I don't know your wife either, but if she told you to go ahead and grill out in your nightie, a great answer would have been "OK." And then drag your feet just enough to give her time to tell you she was just kidding, but otherwise go for it!

I spend LOTS of time in my backyard in various states of dress (or lack of), we have a privacy fence but sometimes neighbors can see over it, and I don't care because it's MY yard. If someone were to ever call me out for whatever, I'd accuse them of being some sort of perv for looking. :)

[Di]

I agree with Char and Doc,
To know the answer would be to ask her/ I know she said not to talk about it BUT what if you said I want to ask a question to a subject you do not ant to talk about….would you mind if I ask you one thing.
Or wait and see if she makes anymore comments regarding this…..but then again you still might not know what she means still.


My answer would be she might be loosening up. BUT this is from a GG that encouraged and participated.
I never was in her frame of mind….so I am not sure.

I hope you both can talk . :)

[Miel GG]

Agree with those who said that not knowing your wife makes it difficult to answer you.
I don't see any other alternative but asking her. Although you are in DADT... I find legitimate to ask for explanation when something confused you. Perhaps on the next Sunday BBQ you could simply remind her of her suggestion about cooking in nighties and ask if it is really ok for her if you do because you don't want to upset her. If yes, simply seize this opportunity and don't bother with neighbours or smoky nighties.
Good luck Sara Lin.

[Claire M]

The optimist says she's loosening up. The pessimist says she's finding excuses to get you to stop spending the day in a nightie. I agree with all the others ... you'll only know if you ask.

For the group, Sara describes her relationship with her wife as "DADT" but sleep (presumably?) with her wife and lounges around on Sundays in a nightie. Seems like a very open "DADT" relationship (Lucky Sara). I always assumed "DADT" was more like my situation ... she knows I dress but wants to see no trace of it nor ever speak about it. Is there a good definition of "DADT" or is it a spectrum.. like gender??

[Heather76]

Her response was "Well, just keep your nightie on while you're cooking."

When I was looking to buy a hemi Challenger I was struggling with the cost. But, I had determined a used one would be within my self imposed budget. I mentioned to my wife one day that I thought I could find what I wanted within the price range I wanted. Her reply was, "If you want one, get one." I got her permission. I never asked again. It took me 6 months of dedicated searching to find what I wanted at the price I wanted. When I found it, I bought it.

Your wife has given you permission. I see no reason to question it or ask for an explanation. Do it. If she says anything derogatory, explain you understood her to tell you it was okay with her for you to grill en femme. If it isn't, it would be nice if she didn't make vague statements as you need to know what is and isn't acceptable to her.

[Kiwi Primrose]

I think you should ditch the nightie and try blobbing in a denim skirt and t-shirt. A skirt will take you anywhere without serious backlash and once you've been seen once or twice you won't notice it either.

[SaraLin]

It is also possible that because of her mobility issues she sees you as not only husband but a bit of her caregiver. Thus with that perspective she feels it is OK to make suggestions that come across as a bit more of an "order."

Hard to say what you should do about it, if anything, but I certainly sympathize with your situation. Perhaps having a talk about how to arrange the division of labor in your family is in order -
Oh, she knows I'm her caretaker. She comments a lot that she doesn't know what she would do without me.
The division of labor is about 95/5 these days. I'm doing housework, cooking, etc. as well as any "manly" stuff. I don't mind. She can't stand for more than a couple minutes and her degraded shoulder joints mean she can't raise her arms much at all. When I said "for better or worse" I meant it, and I'm here for the long haul. I just wish she would be a little more open to my Sara side. <sigh>

Stephanie47,
She knows ALL about me. I told her when we were first getting together that I had once been on hormones and transition bound, but had stopped when I realized that I'd never be (paraphrasing from Pinocchio) "a real girl". Her response was that if I wanted to be with her, there were limits to what I could be/do. She knows about my outfits and even has donated things she doesn't want - but doesn't want to ever see me IN them. Since I'm always with her now, that means that they hang idly in my closet.

Docrobbysherry,
Yes, apparently I'm more hesitant. I still worry about blowback and how it might affect her. For myself - whatever.

Claire M,
To be more accurate, I describe my situation as a partial DADT. I feel blessed to have what I have and I'm terrified of pushing too much for fear that she'll shut down and demand that I give up what I do have.

Kiwi Primrose,
I have a denim skirt (among a few others), but when I brought up the idea of wearing a skirt, I got the "after I'm dead" speech again.
Funny - my nighties have skirts ranging from floor length to above the knee, and they're OK, but mention just a skirt and it's a big no-no.



CharGG, Di, MielGG,
Thank you ladies, for responding. You're right, of course. I know that the only way is to ask. It's just that she is going through enough problems (many that have no place in this forum), and I really don't want to add anything to the pile. I know that it upsets her when I hint about my feelings about wanting more - so I bite my lip and keep quiet. So it's something of a shock when she makes comments like that and I don't know what to do!
Yes, I wanted to jump on the opportunity, but no, I wasn't going to do it if there was ANY risk of it backfiring. Chicken, I guess.

To everyone else who answered - thanks so much for your answers. I read everything. I just don't always know what to say - or how to say it.

[char GG]

I commend you for your compassionate thoughts toward your wife. You obviously love her very much.

[GretchenM]

Thanks for explaining it more. I kind of figured it might be that way, but was not sure. I agree with the "for better or for worse" perspective and I praise you for embracing that attitude so completely. My first response was based on filling in the blanks as much as possible, based on your descriptions of the circumstances and my own 52 years of very faithful marriage to a woman who is now battling a mild form of breast cancer - cancer is cancer, no matter how serious it is currently. You are a compassionate person and that is definitely a female-like behavioral trait; and one of the best of all.

That said, you do need to have a bit of time for yourself - how much is a personal decision based on the circumstances. Otherwise we tend to shift some of the compassion to a mild form of resentment. That requires the person who is receiving the care to allow time for that to occur. It still needs to be a two way street even if the vast majority of the traffic is traveling only in one direction. Think about it.

[Stephanie47]

OK, if you know she is adamant about wearing anything other than a nightie and a panty, then bag my suggestion. However, if she knows about your dressing and donates items to the cause, then what's there to loose? She'll either shoot you down or maybe acquiesce. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. It's not like you're going to full femme look; wig, makeup, boobs. How would she explain her guy wearing a dress as opposed to a nightie and panty to any nosy neighbor? You're definitely ahead of many guys in a DADT situation with their wives just getting to be lazy in a nightie.

[Cheryl T]

I would have accepted the offer and started the grill.
You don't get many offers like that.

[SaraLin]

you do need to have a bit of time for yourself - how much is a personal decision based on the circumstances.

One of my "escape" methods is to go out in the garage area and putter around in a skirt I keep out there, but:
It's hot out there (I'm in Fla. and the place is open air to the outside)
a skirt by itself isn't really an improvement over being inside in my "comfies." Adding more? see "hot", above
I find myself feeling guilty for being away from her. What if she falls again, or something? I know I'm being silly, since she's usually laying down and I have my phone, but...

We're talking about an out of state trip to take care of some personal things. I both want her with me AND would relish the time alone with the opportunity to dress. Again - torn!



CharGG - Yes, I do.

Cheryl T - Yeah, I should have. I guess I chickened out a bit.

Stephanie47 - when you said "How would she explain her guy wearing a dress as opposed to a nightie and panty to any nosy neighbor?" You zeroed in on the heart of my confusion. She has always been adamant that I keep my "secret" and don't go anywhere I could be seen.
This is a definite loosening of the rules, and I really should have jumped on the opportunity.
I do believe she was sincere in her suggestion. I guess I'm just still afraid of landmines - having been through blow ups before.

[Crissy 107]

Sara Lin, The wild card here is that our wives can change their minds in a second and of course not let us know.

[Di]

Thank you for explaining more.
I knew some of this from posts in the past / but forgot.
I am so glad your wife has you in her life…..you are very special and it shows how much you love her.

[Cheryl T]

When opportunity knocks, Open the Damn Door....LOL

[Sabine Janus]

Could it be that after a while with SOME crossdressing she realizes that you aren't going anywhere or transitioning and is willing to tolerate more?

[SaraLin]

I am so glad your wife has you in her life?..you are very special and it shows how much you love her.

Nope.
I'm glad I have her in MY life! She keeps me grounded in reality, but in a non-toxic way.
For me, I need that. Without her, I'm likely to drift too deeply into the pink fog and risk stepping blindly step into one of the many pitfalls hiding there.


Sabine Janus
Possibly. Probably?
I sometimes think that I worry too much about how she might react and always play it on the safe side.
I might need to give her a little more credit for open-ness than I do.

Next time something like this comes up, I'll trust that she means it - and go for it.
(I hope.)

[AmyJordan]

I'm really sorry to say that with the really hurtful things she is saying about being ugly she has come to the end of her patience and seems to be trying to embarrass you enough to give it up I hope I'm wrong for your sake

[Dutchess]

Hey Sara.. I just wanted to thank you for caring so much about her.. you as one of the few that knows my entire story should know how grateful I am seeing you talk about her with such love.. Compassion is a human trait all too often missing today...not male or female and you have it in abundance.
Much love, Cranky <3

[SaraLin]

I'm really sorry to say that with the really hurtful things she is saying about being ugly she has come to the end of her patience and seems to be trying to embarrass you enough to give it up I hope I'm wrong for your sake

Um, I DO believe that you're wrong on this one. She wasn't trying to discourage me at the moment so much as giving an honest assessment.
My best effort to give the actual quote is this :

"So what? All they'll see from that distance is an ugly woman."

Now keep in mind - I was only in a rather plain-looking nightie. No makeup, wig, shapewear, forms, or any of the other "enhancing" things. I'm sure that AT BEST I'd look like like an ugly woman. So, I took it as a left-handed compliment, since she was saying that I would appear to them as a woman - ugly, yes - but woman nonetheless.

FWIW - My response to this was a humorous "Thanks?" and she answered "Well - you DO make a better looking man."
Gotta admit - I can pass as a man a LOT easier. :heehee:


Dutchess (Cranky?): I try all the time to show that not all men are bad - even though I sometimes wonder if I should shrug my shoulders and turn in my man-card, since I'm not exactly "normal" myself. But - my wife likes having her man around, so I guess I'll hold on to it for now.

[Crissy 107]

SaraLin, I agree a left handed compliment, good post at #25.

[SarahLynn]

SaraLin, might I suggest you acquire a pair of female shorts or Skorts such as one might find in one of the scrapheap women's only magazines (National, Blair, Woman Within, ETC.) and a generic top to go with them and shift into that. They have tops and shorts which seen, even up close, appear to belong to a man. I have several which I wear around the house which are my slob day clothes. I have also found that National (shopnational,com) has thigh high stockings with silicone bands around the top (UK stayups) both in regular and compression styling. One of my Dr's. has suggested I wear the mild to moderate mode compression stockings because of the swelling in my lower legs.

[SaraLin]

SarahLynn (nice name, BTW:heehee:)

Yes - I have considered getting women's slacks or shorts several times, but I keep running into the same issue every time.
If they're generic enough in their look to not be noticeably feminine, they why bother to buy/wear them?
If they're not - then I run the danger of upsetting the wife - something I DON'T want to do.
If I try to talk to her or suggest something like this, I immediately get shut down.

I've begun to believe lately that she is relaxing a bit but I'm really careful to not "force" anything on her.
To be honest, my level of need isn't high enough that I feel that I have to push the issue.
As I've said before, she is my anchor to the muggle world - my safe harbor. Without her, who knows how far into the mists I'd drift?
Yes, the pink fog calls to me - always.
But also:
Yes, I fear that I could get lost and never find my way - either through OR back.

[Crissy 107]

SaraLin, Great post #28! So many of us can absolutely identify with what you said. Thanks!