Open discussion

[sally silverfox]

Last night my wife asked what gender I feel I am
Very surprised she asked. I said male but feel female some of the time. Long discussion followed. I'm full dressed right now and she said she liked how Iook. We've had more open disc about my coding recently. ???

[Davina2833]

sally,

Sounds like you and your wife are on a great ride together and total acceptance!!!

Davina

[kimdl93]

That sounds like a very constructive conversation. And its always nice to get a compliment too!

[TAG]

Now please understand this does not give you a green light to wear only womens clothes all the time.
I can't tell you how many hundreds of posts I have read that started off just like yours to only end up with the guy getting the wrong idea about how his wife felt.
Just because she said you looked nice is nothing more than a compliment and not her approval for you to CD all the time.

[Fiona_44]

Sally,

Just take it slow & keep the lines of communication open.

[Larissa Cassandra]

I think the more important point of this thread (correct me if I'm wrong, Sally) might be the discussion of gender ID. I've gone through the same discussions with my wife, and have come to the same conclusion: male, but sometimes female. However, I've noticed that female is getting stronger and stronger, but still I won't ever transition or be CDing 24/7. My ideal situation is to dress at home almost every evening (and maybe venture out at some point), and present as male to the rest of the world during most days (with underdressing, of course!). So far that seems to be working much of the time lately.

[alwayshave]

I guess the question is, is she very worried about your gender identity? If so, this may be an issue.

[Alana Westenra]

Larissa, I felt the same about the thread. It is a great thing to discuss with people that want to discuss it; their gender Identity. Also worth discussing what the current typical male and female visual cues are. Do clothes/hair determine how much of a man you are? Every item that comes up can be massively contradicted.


I've always loved openly challenging classically masculine things, and about 10 years ago, I started shaving legs and arms pretty much full time.

The masc. side of me is secure enough to have the conversation with just about anyone. My wife was pretty surprised the first time I did it, but she ultimately likes that I challenge the norms of being/looking like a man. I hike in a kilt that honestly looks more like a skirt, I've worn women's t-shirts and jewelry sometimes. Its always been pretty safe for me because of where I live, and the fact that I'm tall and fit (and white).

I've come down on being binary-fluid, if that's a term. If there's a spectrum, with a slider knob, I identify as oscillating between the two, with the occasionally hard-right into the Pink Fog :).

I have run into a bunch of people that are now coming out as non-binary, which I've come to understand means (taking the same metaphor of the Male-Female slider) they feel neither male or female, but somewhere off the slider's track. I'm really glad there are more conversations happening with genuine care and interest, not just between partners that love each other, but within communities that want to broaden their understanding (without Mass media's influence).

[RoxieChristine]

I'm trying to have that conversation with myself. It is difficult to pinpoint right now. Until recently I'd be on the definite male side. Even with past thoughts and desires to BE female, I always saw that as fantasy. Now that I'm in the deep end with dressing, it really is a desire that wants to be more than a fantasy. Honestly, still not attracted to men, so there is that also. But the desire is if I could snap my fingers and be a woman completely I really would have aa difficult time not doing it. However, given my current circumstances both socially, relationship wise, and job wise, I can't see it working out for me. Sometimes I hate being an engineer and looking at everything so logically and dispassionately. Especially when being a female is such an emotional part of me. Why is adulting so difficult 😉

[GretchenM]

I think you should take her comment as a compliment and not as an all clear sign. So, as others suggest, take it slow; no sudden turns or accelerations. As they say on ships, "Steady as she goes."

Your use of the terms "male" and "female" when referring to gender is not quite right, but is OK to do because that is what our society does and what people understand. But the deeper truth is that those terms should only be used in reference to sex and not gender. Gender and sex are different things for the most part. Sex refers to reproduction and gender refers to who you are as a person. Better terms to use are "male-like" and "female-like" or "masculine" and "feminine" when referring to gender. "Male-like" and "female-like" means showing the behavior traits and characteristics commonly associated with males or females, respectively. However, using "male" and "female," even though not correct, is understood properly. That is very consistent with how you described yourself. Keep the conversation going. It is a good one.

Alana brings up a great point about the trend to think in non-binary terms (or her interesting and innovative term of "binary-fluid") and perhaps that is what you are referring to in that you can switch back and forth. Ironically, this current trend of using "non-binary" very closely reflects what goes on in the neural networks that generate gender behaviors. It has been found that about 92% of humans have a blend of behaviors that are male-like, female-like, or intermediate and it is constantly changing as we go through life. It has been found that only a very few people are configured as either/or and in time most of those will probably shift over to the more common pattern. The percentage of the total male-like and female-like varies with each person and most likely most of us are sexually male but have a lot of female-like characteristics mixed with male-like characteristics. That could be a lot of the reason why dressing as if we are female is so comfortable - it appeals to that portion of our neural networks. But most males do not have that much and that is why dressing is uncomfortable for them - it is expressing something that is not actually a sufficiently large enough portion of the traits to be compatible with that expression. We are all literally different and unique when it comes to gender.

[Joanne108]

Gender? I am mostly male with some bits of female, that?s who I am. It?s always good to discuss this!

[GracieRose]

On the gender continuum I believe that I am more female than male, despite having a Y chromosome and the resultant male body (that pesky testosterone poisoning). I feel that I am closer to the average woman than the average man. i know that i am different from the average man.
I have always naturally gravitated towards the girls group when the boys and girls separate into separate groups. I've been that way since kindergarten (the first time I have been put into such a situation). I have always been jealous of the clothes that the girls got to wear, even the school uniforms when I was in grade school (which some of the girls were not too please with). I'm so glad that I have recently found the courage and the occasional opportunity to get out in the world as a woman. Going out 'en-femme' has been so relaxing. I wish I could do it more and get rid of the false male fa?ade.