Do people really in the real world actually care? Are they bothered?

[Suranne]

Ok, first up I'll say I'm in the UK, so things may be different elsewhere. That I accept. But to answer my own questions: You know what, I don't think they do. The world has moved on. Being Trans or out and dressed these days is not unusal, it's part of the new normal. You don't have to pass, being able to blend is good enough. Dress appropriately for where you are, don't push bounaries that CIS women can't pass, treat people with respect, in fact, just be a normal girl about town and country and you'll be fine. You'll be surprised, there's nowhere you can't go and nothing that you can't do. You don't have to confine yourself to the LGBT quarter and gay bars and clubs, they of course have their place mind. I know that I'm lucky with my SO, my family, friends and work, and that's to my good. I know other people struggle and don't have a SO that is accepting, that's bad and it's hard and I feel for everyone in that position. But, for those who want to get out, for those who can get out, then do. Just do it, go out in the world, the real world, the normal world and you'll be surprised as to how quickly you feel comfortable, how normally people treat you and what a wonderful feeling of liberation that it gives. They say every journey starts with a single step which may be true for the rest of the world but for us, the hardest part, our first step is to get over the 6 inches inside our own heads that stops us from acting.

[sometimes_me]

maybe someday :) my SO and I still need to work through some steps before we get to that point

[Emily in the south]

Being one of the new girls here, and from my inexperienced perspective, I would be much more apt to do more normal everyday things if I had the option of sharing those times with a CD friend.
For now, the positive support I get from being in this online community of great girls will have to suffice. It has helped me immensely.

Emily

[sara66]

Most people really could care less. If it doesn't directly affect them, they may not even notice.
Sara

[kimdl93]

Definitely the biggest obstacle to going out and experiencing the world is what goes on in our own heads. beyond that, use good judgement with regard to your own presentation, when and where you go, and how you conduct yourself.

In more than a dozen years of being out and about I cannot recall a single occassion when anyone expressed any hostility or even open disapproval of me. That includes time spent at an auto repair shop in an GM dealership near Muskogee and getting a trailer tire replaced at a U Haul in Wichita KS. Of course, I cannot know what the people might have been thinking, but I was treated with courtesy and properly gendered.

[Laura912]

Suranne, what you say is true in some areas, but there are areas in some states where being a CD is dangerous. Kim’s comment on being aware of when and where is very important.

[Suranne]

Laura, yes I know that we're lucky in the UK and it's different in (parts of) the US.

I've been out for a few years now and have been all over the UK with no problems anywhere. I put this thread up because I see a number of posts from people here who seem to be in the same position that I was in before my door burst open. If I can help with my experience and I hope that I can, then that's to the good. Also, I want to let people know that it's not a thing any more with the public at large. Other people out in the world are far too bothered in their own world, with their own problems to be bothered what the person who just walked past them, or bought somehting from their shop, or is sitting on the other side of the bus, or is in a cafe having their lunch, is wearing. I see too many posts here where people are far too over cautious or where people over think it.

And you know what the most surprising thing is about it all? There are loads and loads of people out there who actually like to see it, to see people who are comfortable in their own skin pushing boundaries and who are comfortable kicking against societal norms. I can think of four times that anyone has said anything negative to me when I've been out, but as for the nice things, the "That's a lovely dress", "I really like your shoes", "Can I say how lovely you look?" Things like that? They're far too many for me to remember them all.

[GretchenM]

Your words ring very true in the general sense and even in some of the disagreeable places it is still true in general. Each place has its own characteristics. I don't think I would be very welcome in most of the small towns on the eastern plains of Colorado, but I doubt anything would happen there. I would just not be welcome if I got clocked which I probably would. Very conservative in those places and anything out of the ordinary is viewed with suspicion. But even there it can vary from town to town. Even wearing a mask during the pandemic that was clearly feminine in pattern produced a negative reaction in some teenagers while older folks accepted and some even complemented on it being a pretty mask.

The problem can be that as we move around we pass through different neighborhoods with people with different attitudes. In other words, we do not live in the general perspective but rather in the specific, individualized perspectives. But the fact that even in most of those places tolerance has evolved to some degree toward the generalized perspective is a good sign. In a sense we move between places that are effectively operating in different times. Attitudes are not consistent with it being 2022 everywhere. In some places it is like being in 1955 with hints of 2022 popping in here and there as well as many years in between. Attitudes and beliefs vary tremendously geographically.

That said I think your post is an excellent perspective on the subject and it is good that you recognize it is not the same everywhere. Thanks for bringing it up.

[Krisi]

I think you are experiencing the "pink fog".

While you probably won't be beaten up or killed for wearing women's clothes in public, you will be looked at as a pervert and someone to stay away from. Your neighbors will stop inviting you to their parties, your and your wife's friends will become distant, your neighbor's children won't be allowed to play with your children and you may find it hard to find or keep a job.

Life in the "real world" is far different than life on the Internet. Sorry.

[Aunt Kelly]

Most don't care. Some are enthusiastic supporters. A very rare few will show hatred outright.

I've told this story before... A friend (also trans) and I were returning from a conference in Midland, TX. We stopped for lunch in Mason, TX. Necks don't get much redder than in that part of the state. We opted for a barbecue joint (one of only two open restaurants open that Sunday afternoon). The hostess greeted me, and her eyes got wide when she realized she had two transwomen in her restaurant. You'd have thought that she thought Rue Paul and just stopped in. She was flustered, but polite. That was it. That was the extent of the attention we received in a dining room full of hunters and the after-church crowd.

[Sabine Janus]

My worry is that there are enough knuckle dragging testosterone driven Neanderthals still rolling around out there. I think its a case of know your environment.

[Genifer Teal]

It varies by location. Generally I find this to be true. Unfortunately there is a minimum standard of how you look and act that will get you way more acceptance. Some of that has to do with your level of comfort. A nervous nelly might raise a lot of concern regardless of your presentation. The more you are out, the less you will over think it and the more you can get away with.

[Stephanie47]

Tolerance does not equate to acceptance. Yes, you can probably don female apparel and the general public will just let you be. Or not! There are areas of the country that are just plain hostile to anyone in the LGBTQ+ community. While one may go off to the local mall to shop en femme, are you going to get invited to the neighborhood BBQ dressed en femme? It's a rarity, but I do see on occasion young kids bucking the system, but, it is usually in jobs that definitely do not offer advancement. There was an interesting OP ED piece in my local newspaper discussing the number of legal challenges to anti-discrimination laws based on religious freedom to not accept or provide benefits to the spectrum of LGBTQ+ community members. Things are not as rosy as some want to believe. I am always happy to read a member has found acceptance but that person alone has to bare the consequences of his or her actions, not somebody else.

[Heather76]

I'm a believer that the general population really couldn't care less if I'm out and about en femme. However, family and friends are an entirely different situation. They know me and perceive me in a certain way. For them to see me en femme would change that perception and they would have a difficult time accepting me dressed. That lack of acceptance is surely rooted in long held beliefs that crossdressing is done by sexually perverted people. Thus, as nervous as it makes me to be out in public as Heather, I'd love to be out every day in places I stand less than a .01% chance of seeing anyone I know. However, I cannot let Heather out anywhere near home.

[docrobbysherry]

I must disagree, Suranne. If u can't pass at midnite in a blackout like me? In all my experience as a man in a dress, EVERYONE that notices u treats u differently!:eek:

It's not just the snarky comments, fish eyes, or chuckles under their breath. It's SA's and servers falling all over themselves to not offend u or misgendering u because they r busy or just ignorant. U must remember this: NO ONE will treat u like they would if u were a woman or a man!:sad:

U may like your server calling u "Ma'am." Or, your SA complimenting your outfit. But, I don't! I know how I look and present. And, find all the extra flustered activity produced by my female clothing to be a big, embarrassing, nuisance!:doh:

When I'm out I want to be left alone to shop, dine, whatever, at my leisure. That NEVER happens when I'm out dressed at vanilla venues. However, if u have the time, patience, and personality to constantly be the center of attention as the "MIAD"? Go for it!:thumbsup:

[NancySue]

While we love the town where we live, around 40,00, it?s very conservative and traditional, but nosy, gossipy and judgmental. Consequently, I/we must be very careful, which is very frustrating especially when the pink fog swoops in. In spite of the risks, I?ve ventured out. So far, no problems.

[TAG]

I agree with Sherry on a lot of points and Suranne as well.
No matter how well you think you pass there are always male markers you have that some people will notice.
Not many people really care but there are some that will make a scene.
A lot has to do with how we treat people we come in contact with.
I have found if you treat people with respect things go well.
Demanding they use certain pronouns and you being a jerk in general people will give you problems.
Some CDers have a fetish about looking like a hooker and that is well and good at home just be sensible don't go out in public like that.
If you do you are asking for trouble.
I get more comments/looks about being fat than being transgender. Some good some not so good.
So do people care?
Not really they are too wrapped up in their own lives.

[Aunt Kelly]

Spot on, TAG!
Most of us, by far, can not "pass", once that hard-wired assessment of our gender has been triggered. The good news is that once the surprise wears off, we will almost always be treated according to the decorum and bearing we display. Dress like a hooker, or in a party dress and pinafore, and you can expect some snickers or guffaws, at least. Dress appropriately for venue and your age, and comport yourself as would any cis woman and most will "play along", at least.

[Geena75]

Given what I have read here over the last couple of years, and combined with my own experiences, I think it is true that most people really don't care. I don't think I pass, but I have gone out to stores a few times and never got the disgusted 'humph,' or dirty looks or stares. For my own reasons, I wear a covid like mask and I think I get more negative reaction to that. I detailed my most recent excursion in the photo gallery and again, no reaction.

That being said, say 90% of people don't care. That leaves 10% who do, and it is there you may have concern. It only takes one radical extremist to turn a pleasant outing into a nightmare. It is important to be selective to where you go. For example, I went browsing around a supermarket, Big Lots, Walmart, Target and even in the License Bureau without a bad reaction. Would I go to a redneck bar dressed? Absolutely NOT!

[Fiona_44]

Suranne,

I have to disagree in that there are plenty of people who for various reasons would react badly to finding out that someone is a CD. And reacting badly can range from mild verbal abuse up to a life-threatening beating. I do agree that a good portion of the general population really doesn't care but even then, as Stephanie said, don't confuse tolerance with acceptance. That same salesperson or waitress who was pleasant to you in the brief interaction at a store or restaurant may not want anything to do with you outside of their job in their personal life.

And some of that nervousness you perceive in some CD's hesitant to go out in public may just be because no matter what they do with clothes, make-up or mannerisms there is no way in heck that they could ever come close to passing as a woman because of the way they look or the way they're built. This opens them up for instant ridicule or worse as opposed to other CD's who can more easily pass through most casual interactions as a woman. Everyone's situation is different.

[MarinaTwelve200]

It doesn't help that a significant number of "Muggles" think CD, Homosexuality and Trans are ALL the same thing. So if they hate on one group they hate on ALL of us with the same amount of ignorance and illogically- fueled fury. I personally prefer to avoid any trouble by staying "closeted".

[Jean 103]

You were right they are wrong, it's really that simple.

I have been all over where Sherry lives and never had any problems whatsoever.

I live in the vanilla world I don't go to gay clubs. I have lots and lots of friends. Very active going out all the time.

I've been living as Jean for years now. Most of my friends including my best friend are GG's.

I like to play pool. I do okay as I usually win. I have a number of guy friends I play pool with , along to with some of my girlfriends
and my bestfriend.

I look just like my avatar, that picture was taken at a friend's house in OC. She has since moved and now lives in Reno, I keep meaning to go visit, I just don't have the time.

Yes I'm different, and people do treat me differently. They're generally nicer.

Love Jean

[Emily in the south]

I like to play pool. I do okay as I usually win. I have a number of guy friends I play pool with , along to with some of my girlfriends
and my bestfriend.

I look just like my avatar, that picture was taken at a friend's house in OC. She has since moved and now lives in Reno, I keep meaning to go visit, I just don't have the time.

Yes I'm different, and people do treat me differently. They're generally nicer.

Love Jean[/QUOTE]

You're a lucky lady Jean, I admire your confidence and your outlook.
If I'm ever out in your area, I'll give you a run for your money on the pool table...

Emily

[sometimes_miss]

Having grown up with a facial deformity, I lived my entire childhood and adolescence being shunned and looked at as if I had the plague by most of the other kids, and a lot of adults, as well. I have no wish to go through that again, just so I can feel comfortable in girl clothes.
And then, there are enough of those who hate us enough to physically attack us, and while I'm big enough to defend myself well, the police just routinely round up everyone involved and toss us into the same holding cell, and let the judge sort it out in the morning. And I don't want to have to deal with that, even if I'm pretty sure that I'd eventually be released as the one who didn't cause the fight.
So yes, there are enough people in the real world who DO care, and they ARE bothered, to make our life miserable, and potentially fatal, if they feel irritated by our existence enough.

[Suranne]

Some good replies here and I thank you all for taking time to share your thoughts. I think that the first thing to say is that I know and accept that there is a very big difference between the UK and (some parts of) the US and other countries too. One thing that does matter here mind is that, no, I'm not a MIAD, I a trans person, out in the world.

As I said, I blend and I blend very well. The other day I was sitting on a bench in a local park with my SO when a dog walker came by with a boisterous dog. As it was a nice dry day I had my white trainers on. As the dog approached where I was sitting the lady called out to the dog "Barney, come away! Keep off that lady's shoes!"

I have to disagree with many here who say that when you're out in the world then large parts of that world will shun you. Of course, they may do, there is a risk to everythng. However, this is not my experience. I have no trouble with my neighbours, I have no trouble from my family, I have no trouble from my SO. I have no trouble with my employer. It really doesn't happen. And yes, I know how lucky I am. I'll be going to a family wedding in the next few months and everyone knows and nobody cares.

On the not being invited round to people's houses, I have been and am, I'm just me and they like me and that's what matters. Many people have also given me gifts and things to help me on my way. People have been really lovely.

Of course I am careful when I go out, but that's the case for any CIS woman who lives in a world of constant threat. And yes, that waitress may not want to be my friend, but I may not want to have them as a friend either. This is a two way streak here, it works both ways, it not a case that simply because we're different to what may be expected then we have no power of choice - we do.

I don't know what is different between me and many people here and this thread is trying to explore that difference. I don't fully get how there are those of us who have made the jump from one side to the other and who are very happy and successful in the world and yet there are those who hold themselves back. My thought on it, and to some extent it's demonstrated here is that there is far more good in the world, far more acceptance out there, then many here think and it that's what I thought before I socially transitioned.

Please accpet though that I do know we each have our own circumstances and it's not the same for everyone, and I certainly don't intend this thread to come across in a "I'm right, you're wrong" kind of way. I'm just geuinely interested in people.

[Jean 103]

[QUOTE=Suranne;4605971]
On the not being invited round to people's houses, I have been and am, I'm just me and they like me and that's what matters. Many people have also given me gifts and things to help me on my way. People have been really lovely.

Exactly

Love Jean

[GretchenM]

Suranne, I think your post is wonderful and you do seem to have a balanced perspective on it all. And your recognition that it is not the same everywhere is respectful and considerate. As can be seen by all the varied responses it is abundantly clear that the environment we move through varies tremendously. Big cities are sometimes more tolerant and even accepting, but more rural areas tend to be less so. That said it probably varies with the experience of individuals as we move between microenvironments that are intensely individualistic.

To me, the message is that we need to recognize that we are, in the eyes of most people, different and in most social settings difference and its tolerance varies tremendously. And it is not just gender. I think the best message is "Dress appropriately for where you are, don't push bounaries that CIS women can't pass, treat people with respect," taken from your first post. Excellent!!!

In general if you treat people the way you want to be treated, the remaining differences that could result in hostility will fade to some degree. But always be aware that upon first meeting that may not work and it is not your fault; some people are just plain hostile toward anything that deviates from what they believe should be. It is the should be perspective that produces the conflicting situation that can lead to trouble.

Ten years ago the rule I learned is to do what a woman does to stay safe and double it. The world may have progressed to where the double it part has been reduced to adding 40% or 50% is workable in most places. But it remains that we are often not recognized as actual women and that is a difference that is, for some, a step too far. Be aware of your microenvironment as well as your environment. IMO, really good and fair posts from everyone and that reveals the wide range of our experiences to varying environments.

[Suranne]

Gretchan you're quite right in all you say and thanks for the kind comments.

[Lana Mae]

I live in the same town the former grand dragon of the NC KKK lives! I am out 24/7/365! I can count on one hand any bad reactions to Lana! I shop in most of the stores, pharmacies, pay my water bill, etc. I get greetings from people asking how I am etc. I take my car to be serviced! Positive reactions everywhere! I am out at work! My neighbors wave and say hello and good morning! I do not go to certain sections of town but most ciswomen wouldn't either! Situations vary a lot and you must do what you need to do for various reasons! Do what makes you feel right!
Hugs Lana Mae

[Krisi]

My worry is that there are enough knuckle dragging testosterone driven Neanderthals still rolling around out there.

If we are asking for or hoping for tolerance, we must be more tolerant ourselves. Calling other people names doesn't move us any further towards acceptance, it has the opposite result.

Think about it!

[Michelle colson]

I'm sure where you live definitely matters. I live in a small conservative northern california town. Most of my friends are tolerant of trans people and treat them with respect in public. In private they mock them and make fun. I have no doubt I would be shunned if I ever came out to them. So I keep the majority of my dressed outings confined to the Bay Area or Sacramento where no one knows me. I've had nothing but good experiences down there. Seems like most people don't even notice me. Occasionally I'll get a double take or see someone smirking at me but most people literally don't notice. That's fine with me, my goal is just to be left alone when I'm out. When an SA compliments my outfit or hair it's really nice but there is no way to know what that person really feels. Are they being kind out of acceptance or because they've been programmed to be tolerant? I hope it's acceptance and the comments are genuine but I'll never know.

[Natalie5004]

Nobody cares. Here is my latest example.

Yesterday was my usual start, shower, shave then dress as Natalie. Almost full makeup. I put on lipstick, mascara and eyebrow pencil. In a few hours I received a call about a property I have for rent and can I show it this afternoon at 1 PM.

I finished what I had to do for work in my home office. Then I changed into drab motorcycle clothes for the 125 mile trip to the rental. I spent 2 hours with the couple. Drove back home arriving at 10 pm. I washed my face and I realized I never removed my makeup. They must have thought that I was something else but there was not a word mentioned and even a side look. Well maybe the wife noticed it. I saw her looking intently at me at one moment when we were inside the home. She could have been thinking. "where did this guy learn these great makeup skills".

My response again is the issue with being seen in public is really in your head.

[kimmy p]

Many may not care. More than that will not notice unless clubbed over the head with it. The problem is that there is a large group that finds it VERY important. To The point of potential violence. Read the news. Bashing gays, trans, crossdressers it great sport to some groups. Usually in the name of " common morality and some religious passages that they feel gives them the right to cause harm". So please all, be yourselves but stay safe, especially with the always touchy restroom issues.

[Genifer Teal]

Once again your location settings will matter. That said, I've been out and about since the weekend of 9/11 the original event. I was in New York City that Saturday at a party for us girls. I quickly branched out to going just about anywhere and everywhere I could get to. In all those hundreds of times going out taking the train to the city Etc Often by myself I can count five times that I had cause for concern that it could become a situation but it didn't.. so yes anything can happen and you can spend your life worrying about it but hundreds of times of enjoyment versus five potentially tense situations. You can only decide for yourself how to live your own life.

[Heather2die4]

I agree with you. People have just moved on. I travel, go to restaurants and museums, check into hotels, and just generally enjoy being a girl about town. I've been spotted many times as I am over six feet tall (>183 cm) but it has never come to confrontation.

I think CDers who try to get picked up are asking for trouble as that is unconsensual and puts the man in the akward situation of public humiliation. Some CDers just like the drama of being the victim and bring it on themselves. Then there are a few frat brats who have something to prove, but most people have just moved on.

Of course, it helps to walk with condifence and carry yourself with dignity. If you can do that, confrontations should be a once in a decade thing. If they are more frequent, the girl should take an honest look at herself and fix the internal problem.

[TheHiddenMe]

I'm from the midwest and I have found that most don't notice, and if they notice they don't care, and to the extent anyone has a reaction, the reaction has been positive.

I've made friends while dressed. The friends of my friends are happy to meet me. I've told one person who only knew the boy me (I had my reasons) and she was grateful I was willing to trust her.

The biggest risk to TG individuals are those in the sex trade. The second biggest risk is likely being mistaken for being female and being subject to the same risks as being female in the wrong place.

But as the OP notes the biggest obstacle is not others but ourselves. It took me a long time to figure that out and get over it, but I did and I'm happy I did.

[Hollibelle]

It really depends where you are in the U.S. or world. In my neck of the woods absolutely people still care and CDers and TG are degenerates and an abomination to nature, society and most importantly their God?s will.

[Natalie5004]

Today I felt pretty good about my makeup and outfit. So I went to Costco to buy gas then the grocery store for food for dinner. No looks, stares, glares, snide remarks, pitchforks. Just everybody going about their business.

It is wonderful that I feel this free to express myself in this manner.

331095

[Krisi]

OK folks, if "nobody cares", why are so many people hiding their crossdressing from their wives and girl friends? Why is there such a thing as a "DADT" relationship? Why have so many of us lost our wives over crossdressing?

If you honestly think nobody cares, you are living in a very sheltered world.

[Pumped]

People care, perhaps not many, but there is a lot of hatred for those that do not fit social guidelines.

I mentioned it before, but a few months ago a feminine looking young man was assaulted in my city by a couple "god ol' boys".

We hear right on this website of an occasional conflict with some passerby having issues with a CD'er.

To say no one cares is burying your head in the sand!

If you are willing to take the chance and have a strong enough personality to shun off the possible negative, then go for it, but IMO, you will have some sort of confrontation at some point. Might be as simple as a heckler passing by, but it could be worse.

Personally for me, it is not worth the chance to dress 100% fem and venture out as I would not remotely pass.

[TheHiddenMe]

Yes, there are a-holes everywhere--but a far bigger risk than perhaps running into an a-hole while dressed or being LGBT is just climbing into a car and driving somewhere while being a civilian. There were 42,000 car deaths, which includes about 7,500 pedestrian deaths and 1,000 bike deaths.

What's a bigger risk, being dressed in a shopping mall in the middle of the day or walking along a dark road in the middle of the night?

How many on this board ride motorcycles? Your risk of riding a motorcycle is far, far greater than being a CD out in public.

I bike ride about 3,500 miles a year and I try to do most of that on bike trails or lightly traveled roads. Just like when I go out dressed, I try to be smart about it.

I met individuals who have or are transitioning. One in the corporate world has said she's had no issues. One who ran a car repair business told me she lost about half her customers but she endured. Another was outed at work by a disgruntled employee but the employer backed her.

Why hide? For me, because my wife, like some of you, fears the world will fall apart if people find out I CD. In her words, she worries that people will feel sorry for her because I CD. Out of respect for her, I don't tell people (I have told one person because she has a trans child and I thought I could be an ally for her, and it has turned out that way).

Again, you can choose to live YOUR live with a rain cloud over your head or the sun shining over your head. I choose the latter, so tomorrow Dee will be having dinner at a bar where she is welcome and then going to a concert with 2,500 others in a damn cute outfit, doing something I've wanted to do for over 50 years and have done for the last 6 years.

[Pumped]

Yes, there are a-holes everywhere--but a far bigger risk than perhaps running into an a-hole while dressed or being LGBT is just climbing into a car and driving somewhere while being a civilian. There were 42,000 car deaths, which includes about 7,500 pedestrian deaths and 1,000 bike deaths.

What's a bigger risk, being dressed in a shopping mall in the middle of the day or walking along a dark road in the middle of the night?

How many on this board ride motorcycles? Your risk of riding a motorcycle is far, far greater than being a CD out in public.

I doubt you will ever find any facts to support your claims, other than the dark road comment. Anyone would be in more danger walking down a dark road, male, female, or CD'err.

Comparing CD'ing to car, pedestrian, or bike deaths is a bit of a stretch. Huge numbers of people do those activities every day where the number of CD'ers is relatively small, and how many actually leave the house.

Like I mentioned here earlier, we have had posts of CD'ers getting hassled just in this small group and many of us never leave the house. I don't even fully dress and have comments about my choice of foot wear.

I love to watch people. I can stop in a mall, sit or lean against the wall and watch people for hours. That said I have seen one crossdresser in the public over my lifetime. Sure, perhaps I might have missed a few that were very convincing, but I see bike riders, car drivers every day and hundreds of them, maybe thousands.

It would be like saying that people that free climb up the sides of skyscrapers is safe because only a few die every year or two, but how many people free skyscrapers in a year, twenty? Fifty? A hundred? Less? More?

If I could pass at twenty five feet in day light I would go out, but I wouldn't pass at twenty five feet in a dark alley, so I stay home. For those girls that have some reasonable level of passing go far it, but be aware for the hassle when it comes. For those girls that can pass in bright day light, face to face, I am jealous!

[DeeDee67]

I've gone shopping and have made it known that the clothes, panties bras were for me. Only one time with an elderly woman have I had any issues. I have only started pushing the envelope just a tad. Recently, I went with my wife to pickup a to go order, not realizing she wanted me to go with her, I was wearing all enfem clothing, shorty shorts, female tank top, hair in a high ponytail, 1 earring and painted nails and a B cup bra. then she asked me to go in the store. Last time we did this she made me sit in the car. Anyway, as I was leaving I held the door for a lady coming in, she said thank you hun. I held the door for another gentleman and he replied thank you sir. So, who knows!!!

[JenniferMBlack]

I have not worn men's clothes in more then a year. The biggest reaction I got was when I used my debit card and was asked for ID. I got the look at ID then me then that's you? It was a four year old picture and u had facial hair and very short hair then. My experience is even if someone sees me as male what I am wearing doesn't matter. I stay away from the miro minis most of the time and try to always look somewhat normal.

[TheHiddenMe]

Pumped,

As to pedestrians, there have been lots of articles lately on the web about pedestrian deaths, such as this one today in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch (may be a paywall).

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/columns/tony-messenger/messenger-pedestrian-safety-becomes-a-rallying-cry-in-st-louis-and-st-louis-county/article_6c9d9146-ffad-531e-81a6-e9ead1eb70e6.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_stltoday

As to risks to TG individuals, here is an article in Forbes regarding TG murders.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamiewareham/2021/11/11/375-transgender-people-murdered-in-2021-deadliest-year-since-records-began/?sh=53a6fc9a321c

The total? 375 worldwide.


It found that most victims were Black and migrant trans women of colour and trans sex workers.

...

Over half (58%) of those murdered were sex workers, and four in ten were European migrants (43%).

The victims are at a much higher risk because they are sex workers, a POC, or migrants (likely because they left their home country because they are trans).

Information like this usually comes up around the Transgender Day of Remembrance.

Another quick Google search turned up the TG individual who died in a hit-and-run while walking to his job at Starbucks.

As CDs, we're a LOT safer when there are more people around. Go to a shopping mall, and there is security, and lots of cameras (to prevent shoplifting). And there are people like you watching and able to call for security if anyone did choose to pick on a TG person.

Again, when I go to Nordstrom, I'm at a much greater risk driving there than being there. It's the same for everyone reading this. Yet CDs will walk around parking lots at night which puts them at risk because they think avoiding people is safer. It's not (and yes, I did the walking around parking lots at night).

Workers these days are trained to be tolerant of customers. I don't pass but I've never had a bad experience anywhere I've been. And if someone chose to make fun of me, so what? I'm not going to melt.

Perception isn't reality.

People are afraid of sharks. Do you know how many deaths from sharks in the US and worldwide in 2021? 1 and 9 respectively.

Do you know the most deadly non-human?

Mosquito born diseases, such as malaria, cause 725,000 deaths a year.

The risk to white male CDs, the largest demographic group on this board, to dress and go out is far, far smaller than a lot of other risks they accept every day, like walking, driving, smoking, drinking, etc.

[char GG]

Mod note:

I you have already given your opinion in this thread, don't go back and forth. Take it to PM if you feel the need to continue a discussion.

Everyone has their own thoughts about this topic.

[Erika_M]

There's obviously a line between people we care about and the general public, who will most likely never see us again.

Same reason super heros hide their identities.

But really, it's a pointless argument if no one can see the difference between the two. I suppose for some or even most the nuclear option is not an option.

[Aunt Kelly]

People don't care. A partner, girlfriend, spouse, etc. does care. They have every right to. An individual's right to choose what kind of person they partner with does not extend to the public's opinion of us. Comparing the two is disingenuous.

[Taylor186]

Anyone who thinks that people generally don't care must not be paying attention to the news of yesterday and today.

[Fiona_44]

We all know that there are certain areas of many towns or cities that a CD shouldn't venture into, especially a lone CD. If "nobody cares", just ignore that bit of common sense advice and hang out in those areas. What have you got to lose?

[jacques]

hello Suranne,
you are right... most people do not care. But we think they do!
luv J

[Aunt Kelly]

Anyone who thinks that people generally don't care must not be paying attention to the news of yesterday and today.

On the contrary, I pay attention constantly, and comment regularly. What see is absolutely not a nation full of hate for us. I see the latest iteration of a political strategy designed to demonize "the other", vigorously pursued by a handful of operators. We're just the latest target.