It's funny what they think

[Valerie Louise]

I went for my first electrolysis appointment yesterday, which is huge for me. I did two laser sessions, but conflicts with my face getting tanned prevented more. As I thought about it, I figured, what the heck, go for it all. So I am, it wasn't painful in the area she treated (on my left side, around the lip and up to the cheek) and I did not have the benefit of any numbing creams. But that's not the point of this thread, although feel free to ask questions.
I'm a CD, and don't have plans to transition. I think about it - I think we all consider it at some point = but I'm happy in my dual personas and like the advantages of both.

You are lying on a bed for a pretty long time, and my tech is around the mid forties and chatty. When we started, she has to ask, for professional reasons, why do I, as a male, want my facial hair gone. She became the third person who know my male persona, to be informed that I was a CD. Now this made her hesitate and I realized she probably does people who are transitioning, but never a CD. As we talked while I was getting hairs killed, she confirmed that she had 10 to 15 trans clients, but that I was her first CD. So, she started exploring, what I am.
She started by saying that the trans people she supports said that CD's just had a "kink" and that it was all sexual for CD's. Whoa, that surprised me. I said that unless you ARE a CD, I don't know how you'd know that, but that my experience said that while yes, there is a sexual part of it, there is predominantly the desire to emulate a woman in some, and that there are gradations of what CD's are driven to do, from fascination with lingerie all the way to full up female presentation, and probably some I missed. I tried to explain that sense of calm that comes with the pink fog (I had to explain that), and gave her my CD background (pretty common, started with mom's stuff at 7, acquired/purged * X, told wife, etc). I could sort of tell that I wasn't getting through. At one point she said, "Have you gone to counselling? Maybe they could help you understand what you want to do ... you said you had a wife and didn't want to transition ... are you being held back?" Stuff like this went back and forth for thirty minutes.

I'm looking forward to more talks with her (she's going to help me cut my wigs, as she's an instructor for cancer patients). It's going to be fun explaining my version of CD'g to her. I see this as another opportunity for outreach for CD's.

Now this is a really small sample, and I do not see it as representative of how the various points on the Spectrum view each other. Still, its interesting to see a muggle's view of CD's as interpreted through the eyes of a related group.
The problem is that humans like to bucketize and label groups of things. Its how we manage complexity. But this thing we do here, I think, defies the ability to do that. We are all unique in how we express it.

At least, that's my theory today. And I'm going out with two CD girlfriends for lunch on Friday! Yay!
https://www.crossdressers.com/forums/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Sasha_inside]

Most of the thoughts I get are along the lines of cd means I am a homosexual as well. Always a good conversation explaining that no, one does not equal the other. It has resulted in a couple of them wanting to know more and actually educating themselves about both subjects and has led to some great conversations and debates.

[kimdl93]

Seems like you did a pretty good job of covering the bases. Interesting that some of her clients dismissed CD as a kink, rather than acknowledging that most of us are somewhere on the transgender spectrum. Perhaps over time she will begin to grasp that the boundaries can be very blurry between those who characterize themselves as one thing versus another.

[Rhonda Jean]

Sometimes it's just easier to say you're trans. I've never had electrolysis, but I've been close enough to several hairdressers to talk about cd, trans, whatever. For some reason, people think they understand trans a whole lot better than cd. The first time I passed myself off as trans was at a beauty school where I had my hair done and nails done frequently. I'd find some reason to be there almost weekly. That's as close as I've ever been to being one of the girls. The things they talked about were enough to make me blush. I learned a lot, and loved every minute of it. I don't think I would have ever had that experience if I'd said I was a crossdresser.

[Natalie5004]

I agree with you Rhonda. When asked I just say that I am trans. Keeps it simple enough.

[docrobbysherry]

Val, I'm curious that u didn't post the answer to her question. Is that because u aren't sure about being "held back"?

Or, did u intentionally leave us hanging so we'll read your next post after your next conversation with her?:heehee:

[TheHiddenMe]

Everyone generalizes, including a boatload of people on this board, including you.

Like this statement.


I'm a CD, and don't have plans to transition. I think about it - I think we all consider it at some point = but I'm happy in my dual personas and like the advantages of both.

No, we don't all consider it at one point. The surveys suggest that most men who crossdress don't consider transitioning.

Even the title you chose is a generalization. No, it's not what "they" think. It's what one person who has a handful of trans clients thinks.

I've had a few occasions to talk to people who ask why I dress. I tell them to ask what they want to ask, because most people don't know what being trans is, or their knowledge is limited to Kaitlyn Jenner.

Yes, we are all different. As a speaker at one of our dinner group once said, "when you've met one transgender person you've met one transgender person".

[Leslie Langford]

Seems like you did a pretty good job of covering the bases. Interesting that some of her clients dismissed CD as a kink, rather than acknowledging that most of us are somewhere on the transgender spectrum. Perhaps over time she will begin to grasp that the boundaries can be very blurry between those who characterize themselves as one thing versus another.

From what I have gathered over the years, most transsexuals feel the same way about us...that we are just inauthentic "posers", while they are the "real deal". Gays, lesbians (and especially drag queens) seem to feel the same way for the most part, and for similar reasons. As for the average "muggle", we are an "enigma wrapped inside a mystery" as the saying goes, and they have a hard time wrapping their heads around what we do and why we do it as Valerie Louise has amply demonstrated in her OP. The fact that we are so few in number and for the most part closeted just feeds into that non-recognition conundrum, and puts us into the "unicorn" category in terms of visibility and general public awareness.

We really are odd ducks in the eyes of the world, and it seems that only another CDer can truly understand us. This is why a Forum like this is such a God-send in that it allows us to connect online and share our innermost thoughts with like-minded individuals who won't judge us for falling outside the usual societal gender/sexual norms.

[DianeT]

Valerie Louise, while I find the subject of transitioning interesting, I never considered doing it, so you are probably projecting a bit. Dressing in female clothes troubles me because have the conviction to be a male all along. It wouldn't otherwise work for me.
Also, your tech is right in my case. I do CD for sexual reasons, or at least it ignited it when I was a child. I am and always was primarily interested in emulating a female look and body, which is not technically a sexual act, granted, but still, all is stemming and set in motion by a het sexual driver that translates in a fascination for the physics of women. So she has a point. In my case, at least.

[Paulie Birmingham]

when i was younger i wanted to transition into a lion, gorilla, rhino, but never a woman.

now, i am happy as a fetish driven heteosexual cd.

[Kris Burton]

When asked I just say that I am trans. Keeps it simple enough.

I've not been asked, but should I be, I think that's what I will do. I often see the two designations used almost synonymously, like CD/TG, and for the general public, there's too much nuance to be explained easily.

But if my kids ever find out, or I choose to tell them , I must be ready!

[GretchenM]

Some interesting points being made in this thread and yes, we do tend to have a strong urge to categorize an awful lot that perhaps can't really be categorized without ignoring a lot of information. Categorization is always a process that includes introducing classification on the basis of characteristics we consider to be important and often irrespective of whether they are really important. Nothing wrong with that if it helps us to understand the incredibly complex phenomenon that is quite unique to humans - gender identity. Even to our closest relatives in the animal world, gender is very strongly based on sexual differentiation. But, as a result of our seriously overgrown brains, we perceive so much more of the complexity and tend to have a compulsion to classify even when, naturally, it is a continuous spectrum with phenomenal amounts of variation on many different dimensions and no clear boundaries. It is OK, until we reach the point of thinking that some interpretations are better than others. Then trouble sets in.

I tend to avoid that to some degree by referring to myself as "a type of transgender person." I leave it at that. I have no desire to transition as my male-like side is just about as strong and effective as my female-like side. But I have seriously explored transitioned and found it did not fit without forcing some things in directions that were not inherent to me.

Now that I an pretty well beyond the point of thinking of certain things like gender in a sexual context I deal with my identity at the gender level about 90% to 95% of the time. I have learned to move back and forth easily irrespective of what clothes I happen to be wearing. But others are more defined and they are usually several to many years younger than I am. That's fine.

The point is we need to be aware that the categories we tend to create do not actually exist except in our mind and in the formatting of the behavior we exhibit is connected our concept of self and the environment in which we live. We have to react to everything selectively and in accordance with our perception of how we fit into the whole. The problems tend to appear when we begin thinking how we break our environment down into priorities is the natural reality. That is a step way too far, but we still need to categorize things to communicate about them. Boundaries are actually very fuzzy because processes are so linked to each other, but to communicate we need to define lines more than we ideally should. It would be much easier if we did not have to use words to communicate but could just communicate with thoughts that come from the Big Picture rather than such a limited view of reality and being unable to perceive the rest of the picture that we can detect using other methods.

[Valerie Louise]

Hi Doc. My answer was ?No I?m not transitioning. I?m happy in my skin and like being a male most of the time. Plus it would hurt my marriage and kids.? That?s why she said maybe I was being held back ? by my marriage. Not true for me.

[Fiona_44]

Valerie,

You are right in thinking that many trans women look down on us cross dressers. Of course CD'ing is how many of them started their journey but because we have decided that we are okay with our male selves or won't/can't fully transition for any number of valid reasons then we are somehow inferior to them which to me is all bull. We are all striving to emulate and present ourselves as women as best we can and in ways that make us happy and comfortable.