Should we all embrace the T?

[Aka_Donna]

Been mulling over talking about our lifestyle to a local LBG... group. I hate that name, but if come out, then what are we? Not T if T is transexual. Hate the idea of being an after thought in the +. Should we all try to grab the T? as perhaps Transdresser? Sounds and looks weird, but better than just being a + after thought.

What do you think? Good idea, or go immediately to the trash bin and don't pass go.

[JennyMay]

In th UK this is more than a matter of personal preference but about who has legal protection. The T stands for Transgender and it is applied broadly to all who cross the gender divide whether by full time or part-time.

[Brianne_M]

We are not a "+".. We are our own.

My opinion.

[Shelly Preston]

We are apart of the T as JennyMay has said.

Transexual is outdated

T is Transgender

The trouble with acronyms is the fact there are so many. They don't just stop at LGBT

LGBTQIA+ community, which stands for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, intersex, and asexual

[suzanne]

I believe we ARE transgender. But it doesn't work like a binary, either/or, full on/full off light switch. Gender works more like a dimmer switch with a whole spectrum of possibilities between zero (I would never be caught dead....) and eleven (my gender assignment at birth is impossible to live with, so I must go as far as surgical procedures).

So the real question is, where on the spectrum do you fit? I consistently feel like I'm about a 7 or 8. It means I'm more comfortable in a dress or skirt than anything else, but I don't need to delete my alpha male side. As long as I'm free to dress as I please, no transition is necessary.

I think we all need to move past all those letters in the LG...etc etc acronym and just be ourselves AND be accepted by the rest of society. Easier said than done, I know, but i do feel that progress is being made in that direction. The key is visibility. The more we ALL get out there in the world, expressing our true selves, the more the muggles will see that we are not bringing with us the apocalypse. (And we don't have to use words like "muggles" anymore)

[DaniellaUK]

I think JennyMay has pretty much nailed it

Funnily enough, I'm currently listening to an audio book "What's the T?" by Juno Dawson.

[Misiokaku]

Hello everybody
The problem with lgbtq+... It does not unify the "community" . It segregates, it tells you to pic a letter and behave accordingly to a letter. Does this letter represent you? Do you have to represent the letter? I for myself am a man and I can't and do not want to change that. As a surgeon I don't think it is wise to interfere too much in the human body. You can change anatomy a little bit through surgery but you can't change biology and nature. This you have to accept. This means you have to accept yourself. I have accepted that I do prefer the feminine style of clothing, hair dressing and so on, i just prefer to look like "usually" women do. I also would love to be accepted as me. I would love to look more and everyday like a woman but still be accepted as a husband and a man with a different opinion and preference regarding my looks and not as someone from a "spectrum" to be pushed into some predefined boundaries of a "letter". I just want to be me.

[Heather76]

I have trouble with the LGBTQ+ system of classification. Most folks would consider me a "T" as I crossdress to one degree or another 100% of the time. However, am I really transgender? I'm a man and know I'm a man. I don't desire to be a woman. I only desire to wear clothing traditionally assigned to women. If that makes me transgender, then is every woman who wears blue jeans and/or suits also transgender? There was a time (in my memory) women did not wear these clothing items. Someone please explain the difference to me.

[MarinaTwelve200]

THAT is what defines a CROSSDRESSER (It used to be called Transvestite) A crossdresser is a person who dresses as the opposite sex who IS NOT GAY Transsexual or BI. even though those groups are also known to cross dress, they already have their name/terminology. they cross dress VERB SO we "outsiders" are the Crossdresser NOUN.

[Paulie Birmingham]

no, i am not embracing the t unless the t stands for testosterone. im a xy who just happens to have a womens clothing fetish. nothing more.

[GretchenM]

Great question with no clear answer. To me the LGBTQ+... is a poorly conceived classification system that applies terms to variations that are as ambiguous all get out. The letter T presumably refers to anyone who exhibits gender variance. That is parallel with the classical definition of Transgender - "a person who, all of the time or part of the time, self identifies with the opposite gender from that which would be expected based on the person's sex."

Well, that is no help because under the most modern theories of gender there is a tiny percentage of people who do not show gender variance of some kind at some time. So how much is enough to qualify as T? Nobody knows; it is opinion. In that definition we are all T's. Also not helpful. You end up going in circles. So it really comes down to what you personally want to do.

For myself, I place me in H. What is H? Human. But I suppose sometimes and in some opinions some people would not call me Human because I don't fit their personal definition of Human. That said, in conversation if anyone asks about my gender variations (e.g. "Why are you wearing a women's top?") I say, "Because I am a type of T." I leave it at that and they can think what they want.

The bottom line is that I am me, you are you and we are all who we are. Do we really need something more when Human includes so much variation? I think not, but we do need terms so we can communicate and all terms are approximations.

[CynthiaD]

I consider myself a W. A woman born with male body parts. I’m not part of the LGBT community, but I’ll accept support from anywhere.

[Aunt Kelly]

Labels... :censor:

Current convention is to use "transgender" as an umbrella term to cover all forms of gender identity or expression. I have no problem calling myself transsexual. It's easier to say than "I suffer from gender dysphoria...". I also respond favorably to being called "a woman".

As for the LGB... community. They don't get us, as a rule, and the support groups that lump as together with the LGB people are... let's call it "ineffective" when it comes to supporting the T people.

[Patience]

There has never been a better time to be a transvestite, yet, people will complain.

The feeling of being an outsider or not belonging should be especially difficult for those who have been conditioned by their upbringing to feel like they are part of the mainstream, with the implication that anyone who deviates in any way is an outsider or at least undesirable in one way or another.

And, If that's how bad it feels for some of us to be Transgender within the LGBTQ+ community, imagine how Black people feel and are treated in America generally. And then remember there are those who are transgender and Black. Try walking a mile in those heels.

[Kris Burton]

Speaking only for myself, I am very happy to be considered as part of the LGBTQ+ community, even if it's only on the fringe, or a +. I also have no problem with the T - not transgender but rather the what seems to be the now dated term "transvestite".

Of course one of the goals of the LGBTQ+ community inclusivity. Why divide ourselves with terms or letters?

[IamWren]

From the handful of years I’ve been on this forum, it seems most crossdressers identify as straight, cisgender men.
Simply wearing clothes from the women’s side of the aisle, putting on some makeup and a wig isn’t really the thing that qualifies a person as transgender/transsexual.

It’s something you feel down to the depth of your being. You know in your heart of hearts you are not a man. You are something other than how people perceive you.

For those on this thread who consider themselves part of the queer community, I hope you do more than adjust your wig and touch up your makeup. I hope you’re calling out trans bigots when you see them spewing hate on your facebook page. I hope you’re marching in protest against trans bigot politicians who are trying to eradicate trans people. I hope you’re donating time and/or money to queer advocacy groups.

[Stephanie47]

Don't identify what you do or how you feel with one letter or word. Talk in complete sentences and paragraphs. It's complicated. Why box yourself in with a letter? Society seems to want to always stick a person into a box.

[CarlaWestin]

I don't care a bit about the alphabet soup. And I'm not transgender, I do transition my gender expression for short periods of time to have a female like fantasy experience.
No dysphoria or confusion. It's simply to enhance and enjoy my male existence. I don't know why everyone doesn't do it.
Genetic women have been blurring the lines for as long as anyone can remember.

[Linda Stockings]

I believe I can understand and relate to just about all the opinions and viewpoints stated above. It may be appropriate to add: "If you walk down the middle of the road you will be hit by cars going both ways." I don't remember who first coined that statement, but if feels pertinent to me.

[Dutchess]

I do alot of volunteering with LGB issues I was raised and guided in the 60' through 80's by my 2 pro drag cousins..IN Texas at that and those men and women suffered . ALOT ..to get the most basic human rights they now try to have..
I find it sort of odd so many males that dress in women's clothing and OVERLY REPEATEDLY claim to be so straight would want to belong to LGB.. I think alot of it is white male privilege ..your used to getting your way. Sort of the same as Patience' comment .


In recent years I've come to believe that t/cds need their own organization

[Fiona_44]

Ladies,

Whether we like it or not, in today's environment, we are all considered trans with trans defined as those who present as opposite to the sex they were assigned at birth either part-time or all the time. I discussed this last month with the legendary Dallas Denny, a long-time leader in the trans rights movement (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Denny) who I had the pleasure of meeting at a LGBTQ support group meeting in September.

[DianeT]

From the handful of years I?ve been on this forum, it seems most crossdressers identify as straight, cisgender men.
Simply wearing clothes from the women?s side of the aisle, putting on some makeup and a wig isn?t really the thing that qualifies a person as transgender/transsexual.
I identify as a straight, cisgender man, and yet, my transvestism seems a little more complicated in my eyes (and I guess my wife's too, since she considers it more than just a hobby) than this simplistic (and let's be honest, quite condescending) description.
Also, just like I don't think identifying as queer is required to defend queers' rights, I don't see why queers should be lectured if they chose not to. Defending queers', or any other oppressed population's rights is everyone's responsibility. A queer person doesn't have to be enrolled into a group if she didn't ask to, nor be scolded if she doesn't want to fight battles she didn't sign for, no matter how noble the cause. Otherwise it'd mean that being queer would come with additional responsibilities compared to the average human. At that point, in the same spirit, you could also patronize all women who don't identify and act as feminists.

To the OP: I have no use for labels and never fancied belonging to "groups" of any kind (including crossdressers). My dressing isn't more identifying than many other things I do or am, it's a trait among many others of equal importance. If I were you I would probably leave the letters out, since as a crossdresser you will constantly find people telling you that you are A or B, while in the next millisecond other folks will be adamant that you definitely don't qualify for any of these. I am not A or B. I am a crossdresser, a transvestite. And I am so many other things too.

[NancyJ]

I will likely get a lot of blowback for expressing this opinion, but I am flabbergasted by the amount of transphobia and denial expressed on this thread. I agree with Fiona, do not kid yourself. If you are a crossdresser, you are on the transgender continuum. Like it or not, labels are necessary identifiers to help people find support and community. Someone who is transgender is not a transsexual. Transsexuals are a very small percentage, a very small minority of the transgender community. If you are crossdressing, you are somewhere on the transgender continuum. (No matter what you might tell yourself.)

[docrobbysherry]

Here's my take on it:

U can call yourself whatever u like. And, u can call me whatever u like. And believe me, quite few don't call me, a trans or a CD. One favorite adjective starts with an A!:devil:
Just don't call me late to dinner. THAT is the only thing that pisses me off!:thumbsdn:

If I can remember, I'll call u whatever u like. :)

But, I draw the line when u insist I believe u r what u say u r! I'll need some proof for that!:straightface:

[audreyinalbany]

I agree with NancyJ...(comment #24 above)..if you are a genetic male and like to dress or present as a female, you are somewhere on the Transgender spectrum. No big deal.

[TheHiddenMe]

The next time somewhat starts a thread complaining that muggles don't understand "us" just remember no two people on this board can agree what it means.

Let's be clear; the T stands for Transgender.

Here's the wiki link for Transgender. I think it sums it up pretty well.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender

Here is what is says in regard to crossdressers.



Other definitions of transgender also include people who belong to a third gender, or else conceptualize transgender people as a third gender,[10][11] and the term may be defined very broadly to include cross-dressers.[12] The term does not have a universally accepted definition, including among researchers.[13]

Emphasis added by me.

IMO, I, as a self-described CD, consider myself to be under The TG umbrella. YMMV.

OTOH.


THAT is what defines a CROSSDRESSER (It used to be called Transvestite) A crossdresser is a person who dresses as the opposite sex who IS NOT GAY Transsexual or BI. even though those groups are also known to cross dress, they already have their name/terminology. they cross dress VERB SO we "outsiders" are the Crossdresser NOUN.

No. Once again, crossdressing has NOTHING to do with sexual orientation. You can be gay or straight and be a CD.

Here is the wiki definition of cross-dressing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-dressing


Cross-dressing is the act of wearing items of clothing not commonly associated with one's sex.

NOTHING in the definition about sexual orientation. You can be a straight CD, a bi CD, or a gay CD, and you are still defined as a crossdresser.

It also adds:


Cross-dressing is not synonymous with being transgender.

The two terms are NOT equivalent.

[NancyJ]

Sun-Dee, Thank you for your post. It adds clarification. The only thing I would quibble with is the statement that Crossdressing is not synonymous with being transgender. For clarification, I was not suggesting that the terms were synonymous. That would be like suggesting that wind or rain were synonymous with weather. Instead, crossdressing is on the spectrum or continuum or one aspect of transgender just as wind or rain are part of aspects of weather.

Why do I think it is important that we accept that we are part of this larger group? Because this group Is facing gross misunderstanding, hatred, and discrimination, and if anybody should understand the importance of freedom of gender expression, we should.

[DianeT]

Like it or not, labels are necessary identifiers to help people find support and community.
I agree that people need to group and find common identifying traits to fight for their rights. But that's a different matter. The OP seems to be more looking for how to identify herself to an audience, and for that, in my opinion, labels aren't a necessity. And in the particular case of crossdressers, often prove to bring much more confusion than clarity to the table (the threads here are a testimony of that). For example, no matter what the Wikipedia might say, as a private CDer who doesn't interact outside, I don't identify as transgender at all (although I don't mind if people identify me as such). I am in search of what it may have been for me to look like a female. But I am not that female, and I am not moving into the gender continuum, or more precisely, not any more than any other non/crossdressing male or female. A continuum conveys the idea of a linear scale, but the gender scale is actually a multi-dimensional space. We are in fact all positioned at different coordinates of many gender dimensions, and everyone can move around these positions in variable amounts, depending on the context and personality. The Wikipedia article about transgender starts by defining it as a disconnect between your sex at birth and expressed gender, no wonder that it's not at ease when defining gender fluid persons or crossdressers, where the disconnect can be temporary, and even controlled. Like Dutchess said, CDers may need a new category (but as soon as one will be created, ten sub-categories will emerge, so...).
Note that I don't go out and therefore don't suffer from discrimination, and don't suffer either from gender dysphoria (as far as I can tell). Your mileage will obviously vary.

A last word about labels: if you ever find the letter that fits crossdressers, you know that the instant you will tell it to a group of people who are not specialists in the matter (and I mean, professionals), everyone will understand it a different way. To disambiguate it, you will of course resort to a definition of the group targeted by that letter.
Then you'll realize you don't need a letter, you need a definition. Like Stephanie said, just use sentences.

[TheHiddenMe]

I have posted this before, but these are the survey numbers from a 2021 Gallup poll that said overall 7.1% of Americans self-identify as LGBT.

Of the 7.1%, 10% self-identify as Transgender. There are about 260 million adults in the US (aged 18 and above), so .7% of the population would suggest about 1.8 million adult Americans who self-identify as transgender.

More details at the link. More young people self-identify than older people.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/389792/lgbt-identification-ticks-up.aspx

[HelpMe,Rhonda]

I wouldn't have self identified as trans to a survey until I finally accepted it, but when I was believing I was 'just a crossdresser' I'd put myself in the T category in my own head, would not doth protest too much, methinks.

[Jade P]

I consider myself transgender because I was born with male anatomy and my mind and spirit are gender fluid, both male and female. If my gender was accepted by my wife and family I would probably dress female 80 percent of the time but I dont feel the need to change my male body with surgery.

[GraceM]

I definitely don't consider myself transgender. There has been a lot of great back and forth on this thread about what the labels mean and how us square pegs fit into the round holes. Crossdressing is something I do, but I also don't like the label crossdresser too much but if it helps others to understand then ok. If anything, I think gender-fluid would be a good description, because this is so much more than about clothing for me, but it's also not about creating a female persona, but rather living with the female that has been an integral part of me for so long that I want to let shine here and there in my own way. I am ME.

[SaraLin]

I don't know, but to me the whole label issue is a bit of a tempest in a teapot.

If I see someone I don't know, I will instinctively pick one of three gender options [male/female/dunno] based on how they're presenting themselves. and would use that assumption if I'm interacting with them in any way (yes Sir, Thank you Miss, etc.)

Dressed to look male or female? simple - I'll use that.
Dressed ambiguously? I'd avoid gender markers if I could (Have a nice day, or something such)

If it's someone I DO know, I'll try to use whatever terms they prefer and hope they'll forgive me if I occasionally slip up.

As for their sexual preferences (L,G,B, etc.) - I don't really care. I'm off the market anyway.

Call yourself by whatever term you want. I'll treat you as another worthwhile human being, regardless.

[nancy58]

I embraced the T quite awhile ago, but my grip has been tightening in recent years. In my earlier discussions with my therapist, she asked me why I felt I needed to label myself. I had no good answer, but I eventually became more comfortable and went from thinking of myself as "a man who dresses in women's clothes" to "crossdresser" or "transgender". As time passed and societal acceptance of transgender people seemed to be growing, I was able to accept myself as being part of the LGBTQ+ rainbow. (I recently bought a Human Rights Campaign sticker for my car -- the closest I have gotten to coming out to people other than my wife. There is a quote attributed to Benjamin Franklin: "We must all hang together, or we shall all hang separately."

[BLUE ORCHID]

I have Tee shirts, Other than that I am just a Crossdressed,

Don't try to Confuse me with your Mixed up Alphabet. >Orchid**O:daydreaming:O**

[sometimes_miss]

I embraced the 'T', for a while, until I eventually figured out why it didn't quite fit. There are simply so many causes of GID that aren't understood yet, that we shouldn't just toss someone into the trans category just because they are experiencing some of the same symptoms that transsexuals do.
As many now understand, we exist on a spectrum of gender experiences, and don't always fit into one category or another.
More important, is to accept that it doesn't really matter where we fall on the gender line; more important, is that we accept other's feelings and tolerate what they need to help deal with in their lives, to try to live what most would consider a 'normal' life. We accept women's need to behave differently from men, and so we also need to accept those of us who need to behave outside the binary world, in order to be able to feel okay with who they are. After all, for the most part, it doesn't affect how their responsibilities to our societies occurs. Most of us will gladly step out in front of some other aggressor attacking women or children. It's likely that we need to make the women aware of this, as it's a subconscious concern that they have to deal with, when considering men who exhibit transgender behavior. The whole abandonment suspicion of masculine responsibility to protect women and children is a big problem that they worry about, whether admitted to or not. Despite the desire to get the ERA pushed through congress, women still will rely on us to protect them and children. We have to find some way to let them know, that just because we embrace so many feminine feelings and behaviors, being their protectors is not something that we will ever toss aside. I'm a huge six foot four, 250 pound male, and will always volunteer to escort women when in any environment where there may be some danger to them. While we may see it as insignificant, it is still very important to women, that even though we may temporarily be 'en femme' mode, we will still stand up for them, when they need it.

[GaleWarning]

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
Ditto for your personal choice of letter or acronym.
:tongueout

[Genifer Teal]

I don't care a bit about the alphabet soup. And I'm not transgender, I do transition my gender expression for short periods of time to have a female like fantasy experience.
No dysphoria or confusion. It's simply to enhance and enjoy my male existence. I don't know why everyone doesn't do it.
Genetic women have been blurring the lines for as long as anyone can remember.

I think we fit a similar category. I don't feel I was supposed to be something else or any mistake was made just that given the choice I'd rather present as and be a woman. I don't have any dysphoria about being born male it's just not what I would prefer to be and I'd be happy to present as a woman all the time. You say genetic women have been blurring gender lines for a long time but have they really been hiding their chest and enhancing lower areas? That takes it to a different level and one needs to think what's really going on if you need to do that. I get what you're saying. Just food for thought.

[NancyJ]

To be honest, I dislike this debate that we, as crossdressers, have about labels. I think it gets in the way of us, as was the original question of this post, embracing the T in transgender. Doing so is increasingly important in the face of uptick of hate towards people who are, at the very least, similar to us. The Colorado Springs tragedy was fed by considerable misinformation and hateful speech on certain media sources about people like us. Nancy

[Sabine Janus]

I live for the day when we can call them people and leave the labels out of it. Who you love and how you see yourself if no one's business but there own.

Until then, we have each other i guess.

[Aunt Kelly]

For what it's worth, the T is for transgender, which includes all gender-non-conforming people.
Now... I say "for what it's worth" because the LGB community (generally speaking) does not "get" us, especially the TS subgroup. Our issues are not the same.

[Michelle1955]

First I was born in 1955, totally different thinking back then. Things have changed over time.
Myself: Transgender -Yes
Gender: Female (90%) Male (10%) But prior to 1960 I identified wanting to be a girl. I always struggled with my male body.
Puberty was terrible.
Life - Wife, 2 kids, 1 son-in law, 1 grandson. Family determines mostly what I wear daily.
But: me being transgender / female in my head never changes.
Clothing: I can wear either type or both at the same time. But I underdress daily to try to keep my female brain in a happy mode.
Does this condition go away? No never. Can I stop: No never.

Do things change: Yes medical technology changes all the time.
Politics is a big problem, politicians and the public do not understand as a whole. (similar to the firearm debates)

Transgender - In my opinion is an umbrella term that have many sub-sections. It encompasses (in my opinion) from crossdressers, closet crossdressers, part time dressers, full time crossdressers, partial surgeries, full surgeries, etc (what every else you want add additional categories. And I believe any person can shift categories or even be in multiple categories.

Binary and non-binary can apply to most heading.
Sexual orientation is separate topic from the transgender umbrella.

[kimdl93]

It?s really up to you as an individual to decide whether the T is meaningful or applicable to you.

[OrdinaryAverageGuy]

I am NOT transgender. Transgenders are people who want to change their gender, or think they're a different gender, or can't figure out what gender they are. I'm a guy. I'm male. Can't change that and don't want to. I am a crossdresser. Or a transvestite, although for some reason that I don't understand that term is now considered offensive. I'm a man in a dress (ok, right now leggings and a woman's t-shirt). I'm not a woman, I will never be a woman, the technology doesn't currently exist to change me into a woman even if I wanted to.

What's the name of this website again? Because if it was transgenders.com, I wouldn't be here.

[CDSophie62]

I'm with DaniellaUK & Suzanne
I consider myself a Crossdresser if you want a specific term and I also believe that Transgender term DOES include Crossdressing and that it doesn't always mean just those who want to change gender but for me it's about expressing myself as a woman from time to time.

So I'm a Crossdresser AND Transgender.

I saw this definition of Transgender as an 'Umbrella' term & I think that's a great way for us to understand it & also to explain to others.

332699
Others may disagree but I think it's a good definition and one that allows us to find allies with others without having to agree 100% about who we each are & want to be.

Sophie

[Shiny]

Part of my Psych major in school said that this "T" factor is unrelated to "dressing." It's the mental position you personally find yourself in. However, in the really dusty books from the late 1800's it does mention if you start dressing in a single item you will progress to wearing everything, down to hair and makeup and all. I didn't believe this at first but have over the decades come to realize this as FACT! One of the few things they got right! My common sense has won the day in the end but your personal thoughts about going farther with this "hobby" is totally with you and no one else. I cannot "pass" and it would be a train-wreck to even try so I get that and have stayed in the closet as they say.

[NancyJ]

The modern definition of Transgender (see Wikipedia plus other sources) is someone whose gender identity OR gender EXPRESSION does not match that of their biological sex at birth. Given that, if you cross dress, you fall under the so called T umbrella. The first transphobe you must conquer is yourself. Like they say, De’Nile ain’t just a river…

[Krisi]

I think of myself as a "crossdresser", nothing more. I am not confused about my gender, I entered this world as a male and will leave it as a male.

Don't try to tell me that I am something that I am not.

[Aunt Kelly]

I am NOT transgender. Transgenders are people who want to change their gender, or think they're a different gender, or can't figure out what gender they are
...and here we go with the "those labels don't apply to me" debate again. <sigh>
Heaven forbid we let the American Psychological Association definition of "transgender" mean the same thing for everybody - "Transgender is an umbrella term for persons whose gender identity, gender expression or behavior does not conform to that typically associated with the sex to which they were assigned at birth". https://www.apa.org/topics/lgbtq/transgender

[NancyJ]

Krisi, you seem to misunderstood the concept. It is not about gender confusion or identity (only), but also about gender expression. Someone who crossdresses is expressing themselves in the opposite gender and therefore falls under the currently most widely accepted definition of transgender.

Why is this important? Because transgender people are being attacked, literally and politically.

[Rhonda Jean]

Evidence on this board is that the only time any of these terms are understood is when somebody says they came out to their sister, mother, friend, co-worker as ____ (fill in the blank) and they were totally accepting and wanted to take them shopping! Amazing how in that scenario, one word is all it takes to succinctly describe what it takes the rest of us a lifetime to analyze and never understand.

I've been doing this thing for a long time. Over the years I've claimed to not be may of the things I am. Sometimes I knew it, sometimes I really didn't. I find now that it's easier to go with what people think you are. No point in trying to explain it when we can't even agree amongst ourselves.

Of course, the one that gets everybody's panties in a wad is "gay". I'm quite familiar with the endless arguments and adjustments for context, but I'll bet there has never been a single person I've met or who has seen me (or any of you) in any state of crossdress who's initial thought was not "gay". In my case, that was probably a little more perceptive than I was willing to acknowledge, but even if it's not it's probably not worth a defensive explanation.

I think we lost the virile, badass argument when we started wearing panties because men's underwear was "too rough".

[OrdinaryAverageGuy]

Some people have a fascination with labels and making sure everyone else fits into their own definitions of said labels. If you think you're transgender, that's fine with me. But as Krisi said, I was born a male and I'll die a male, there's no confusion here. As for my CDing, I like cute clothes, that's it. I don't pretend to be something I'm not except on Halloween, and then I'm more likely to be a vampire than a woman. Maybe you'd like to call me trans-undead.

[jacques]

yes we should!

[RachelB.]

Don't worry about labels. Be yourself and do what you feel comfortable with.

[OrdinaryAverageGuy]

Krisi, you seem to misunderstood the concept. It is not about gender confusion or identity (only), but also about gender expression. Someone who crossdresses is expressing themselves in the opposite gender and therefore falls under the currently most widely accepted definition of transgender.


When I crossdress I am NOT expressing myself in the opposite gender, I just like the clothes that the opposite gender gets to wear. As I've said, I have no confusion. I know what I am. I am not a woman, I'm a man in cute and comfortable clothes. The most widely accepted definition of "transgender" is people who want to change their genders, not people who like the clothes of the other gender.

[Kitty Sue]

I definitely consider myself part of the LGBT community. I see myself as both bi and somewhere on the transgender spectrum.

[Jade P]

Yes I am a cross dresser and I am gender fluid both of which are under the transgender umbrella. I would not consider me to be a straight male even though I am only attracted to women. Thats okay with me because I am a blend of male and female. I am on the transgender spectrum and I am proud to be part of the LGBTQ community.

[NancyJ]

When I crossdress I am NOT expressing myself in the opposite gender, I just like the clothes that the opposite gender gets to wear. As I've said, I have no confusion. I know what I am. I am not a woman, I'm a man in cute and comfortable clothes. The most widely accepted definition of "transgender" is people who want to change their genders, not people who like the clothes of the other gender.

Average Guy, I would have been happy to let this drop, but you keep insisting that you do not fall within the umbrella of transgender. In another recent thread, you describe how you wear (daily, I believe) female tank tops and underwear and often wear a skirt or a dress before you go to work. Fine with me, but this does fall within the description of the American Psychological Association for transgender, which you will find here: https://www.apa.org/topics/lgbtq/transgender.

I direct you specifically to this section under the heading: What are some categories or types of transgender people? It reads (in part) "People who cross-dress wear clothing that is traditionally or stereotypically worn by another gender in their culture. They vary in how completely they cross-dress, from one article of clothing to fully cross-dressing. Those who cross-dress are usually comfortable with their assigned sex and do not wish to change it. Cross-dressing is a form of gender expression and is not necessarily tied to erotic activity. Cross-dressing is not indicative of sexual orientation."

The article clearly states that transgender is an umbrella term that includes those who crossdress (certainly to the level that you describe doing) as well as those who choose to transition (which is a minority of the population of transgender people). I, like you, am one hundred percent male, and I have a hetrosexual sexual relationship with my wife. I know that I am male (of course), but I also am transgender, not transsexual).

I do not care what you call yourself. Just stop implying that men who cross-dress do not fall within the broader category of transgender. As transgender people are being increasingly attacked on social media, (there was another article about this in the Washington Post this morning), we need to stand together and support them, not fight amongst ourselves. Just my opinion, Nancy

[OrdinaryAverageGuy]

So I did some more research on the term, and verified both that what you, Nancy, and what I am saying are correct, depending your point of view. Nowadays, both the APA and modern social groups are using the word "transgender" to mean pretty much anything involving gender bending. Historically however, the word "transgenderism" used to mean "the urge for gender ('sex') change", at least when it was (probably) coined in 1965. I've asked a few "normal" people what they think "transgender" means, and they talk about people who want to change their sex/gender, not crossdressers or drag queens, and definitely not gays/lesbians (who do things that cross over traditional gender roles).

From a practical viewpoint, and as much as I hate labels, they should at least mean something. If you refer to someone to most people (not on this site, obviously, but in real life) as transgender, most will envision someone changing their body or at least trying to convince others that they are something different than how they were born. Not talking about a drag queen or me in a skirt, because no one's believing that for a second, but talking about people who actively try to present and/or live as the other gender.

When my wife and I had The Talk, she asked me if I was a crossdresser. Obviously, I said, considering what I was wearing at the time. She asked me if I was transgender, and she meant did I want to become a woman. I said absolutely not, which was and is the truth. If I would have said "yes" and tried to explain the whole umbrella thing it would have turned ugly fast.

So yes, according to the new and improved definitions we're all trans here. But that doesn't accurately describe any of us since the word now means so many different things. Let's face it, there are about as many different perspectives of how we crossdress and why on here as there are members. Personally I'd like to go back to using words like transexual and transvestite, because then at least everyone knew what we were talking about.

Peace.

[NancyJ]

AverageGuy, Thank you for yourr response and for taking the time to do some research. This is not 1965. My view would be that since we are crossdressers, we should be doing what we can to eliminate harmful prejudices and stereotypes, not contribute to them. So, from my perspective, your point that many in the general public (including you and your wife apparently) connote transgender with transexualism demonstrates a tremendous information gap. All I am asking is that, as one of us, that you understand the present day terminology so that you can (at the very least) know when we are being unfairly treated, if not help stand up for our rights.

I will resist the urge to get too political, but the article in today’s WaPo indicated that transgender has become the second most cited target of hate speech. I think it is important to know that they are talking about us (including you).

Peace to you as well. Nancy

[April Rose]

:yt: What NancyJ said. Identify, don't Identify; but support. Because if they're after the drag queens now, they'll be after the crossdressers next, and your white male privilege isn't going to save you.