would you self declare?

[jacques]

hello All,
The Scottish Parliament has very recently voted to change the law on Gender Identity allowing people over the age of 18 to self declare their desired gender after living in that gender for just 3 months (and some provision for 16 and 17 year olds).
So my question is would you consider legally changing your gender if you wish to "pass" more frequently or more completely?
Or is there a missed opportunity for people (such as we crossdressers) to legally self identify as being "gender fluid"?
stay healthy!
luv J

[MarinaTwelve200]

No, that would apply more to "transsexual types" anyway. Straight Crossdressers do not identify with women, even though both cross-dress, we are talking TWO DIFFERENT "conditions" that share a common symptom. Not to mention there are also types who will do it just to "be cool".

[kimdl93]

My guess is that one can self declare and subsequently declare something else later.

And yes, to answer your question, I would definitely consider changing my gender on legal documents. I do not think there is a missed opportunity. Only those opportunities we elect not to take.

Post script: my response is entirely hypothetical, since I do not live in Scotland. It is also based on the very limited insights provided by the OP. Having not read the legislation, one can imagine any number of details that may complicate self declaration or revocation of the same.

[OrdinaryAverageGuy]

No. Why does your legal gender matter? Legally it's important for description purposes, so if you rob a bank the police know if they're looking for a man or a woman. Practically it's important for your doctor to know if prostate cancer or cervix cancer is more likely to happen in your body.

Call yourself a German Sheppard if you like, but you're still what God (or the Flying Spaghetti Monster) made you.

[Aunt Kelly]

First of all (and at the risk of being accused of beating a dead horse...), "passing" is a myth when it comes to MtF TG people, and having legal documents that say you are female isn't going to change that. On the other hand, having that legal recognition is a very big thing to those of us who identify as female. Having come to grips with the reality of being "clocked" regularly, those who've transitioned socially have no illusions that a driver's license with an "F" gender marker will disguise the fact they were AMAB. It's not about that, at all.

[Patience]

It's not "just" three months. It's three months. We just had a thread about how folks felt about crossdressing for more than three days!

I can't see how that hurts anything and I'm happy for the people that it benefits. Better than no progress, I suppose.

Would I declare? Not sure. As much as I like to be crossdressed out in public, there is an element of privacy I want to keep and, not to be too smug about it, mystery is part of one's allure (such as it is) and also a defense mechanism, I mean, safety precaution. Why would one want to volunteer that to the State? And not to sound too paranoid, how will the collected information be used?

Sorry, I'm not that committed, I just like to look pretty from time to time and that's enough for me.

[Helen_Highwater]

It's worth pointing out that a false declaration carries with it a possible prison sentence of up to two years. This is to stop anyone self declaring as a way for gaining access to women's spaces with the intention of doing inappropriate things.

It would take a change of my personal circumstances for me to consider self declaration and while I'm totally comfortable presenting enfemme to the world self declaring would do nothing to alter how others see and interact with me.

The greatest importance of this legislation is for those starting out on their adulthood. Those of teenaged years struggling with gender identity. The legislation acknowledges this difficulty by having a provision to change back, again by self declaration.

[Diane P]

No there is no chance that I would self declare. I enjoy wearing my dresses and such but have no desire to change the gender that God gave me. I hope I'm not offending anyone with the comment about God, that's just my personal belief system.

[Angela Marie]

No. Not unless I went through a full transition; which is not in the cards. If you are comfortable with your feminine persona there is no reason to "declare" yourself. Just my opinion.

[Debbie Denier]

No , Too many complications and consequences for family and friends. I will carry on as I am.

[GretchenM]

Not me. But I do agree that the opportunity to change your gender identifier is a good thing, but I believe the 3 months is there to reduce the number of people who do that on a whim. This is not a game and if all of this ends up as a game society will just switch back to the gender binary. I don't see a difference between a CD and a TG person if it is confined to just how you dress and express your identity. Clothes do not define a person's identity! Gender is created neurologically - it reflects how that person's brain functions with regard to their sense of self.

And I greatly disagree with the idea that CD's do not identify with a female-like sense of self. That is completely contrary to recent findings with regard to the nature of gender - 98% of humans are a blend of male-like and female-like gender traits and behave accordingly - it is just the degree that varies. A CD may think that, but the mere presence of their behavior says otherwise. However, in non-binary it is not an either-or situation - it is almost always a blend.

I understand what the Scottish Parliament is trying to do and I applaud it but I believe they are talking about people who are serious about changing and it does not include people who, generally speaking, are non-binary or "just CD" and therefore difficult to classify because their identity is of a more undefinable type that shifts around with respect to the emphasis and the emphasis changes based on, in part, the situation.

With the blend of gender traits and characteristics being more of a continuum or spectrum it is apparent that some will vary a great deal while many others will be more defined in their identity. Gender is not a condition where one size fits all. In fact that is what gender variance in general is trying to get away from - the bondage and restrictions imposed by the either/or of a gender binary concept of gender that pigeon-holes people based almost totally on their sex and thinks that sex=gender. It does not.

[SaraLin]

So my question is would you consider legally changing your gender if you wish to "pass" more frequently or more completely?

It sounds backwards to me. IF I were able to pass a LOT more frequently and completely - only then would I consider self-declaring myself as female. Inside, I already do, but since the world only sees the outside, it's just easier to let them think that I'm what I appear to be.

I can "pass" as a man, so that's what I do.
I don't "pass" as a woman. My claiming to be one would only confuse or upset people, my wife included.

Now, if I could look as good as some of you ladies in here, who knows where I might have ended up?

[Krisi]

I wonder sometimes about the people we elect to run our various governments. Something like this can have all sorts of unintended consequences.

An no, I would not change my gender to female.

Oh wait, If I was "female", my life insurance premiums would go down because I would be expected to live longer. And I could get free drinks at bars on "ladies night". And I could get into the lifeboats first on a sinking ship!

[JulieC]

This whole thing reminds me of something the USNA (Naval Academy) started doing somewhat recently. In an attempt to reduce sexism, they started preventing female cadets who were graduating from wearing the uniform skirt. This struck me as incredibly dumb. "Hey! We're going to make you feel less discriminated against by forcing you to wear pants!" Seriously? In my opinion, there should be one uniform standard that covers all humans, including skirts and pants, and you should dress to that standard however you choose to do so. Repression isn't a way forward.

Why this reminds me? Because being able to say "female" or "male" at your choice on a card isn't a choice. I don't consider myself 100% female or male. Gender fluid? Meh. What I am is me, a human. I think (and hope) that in the future we stop segregating people by race, color, creed, gender, gender identity, and identity expression. We are all human. Beyond that, the only people that need to know anything about your DNA are doctors.

[Cheryl T]

No, 'cause I'm not relocating to Scotland.

[docrobbysherry]

I am a CD. Most CD's r men who enjoy wearing women's things for a variety of reasons. So, no.:straightface:

Trans, on the other hand, often feel like they r women. Maybe they should move to Scottland?:battingeyelashes:

[Shelly Preston]

No. Why does your legal gender matter? Legally it's important for description purposes, so if you rob a bank the police know if they're looking for a man or a woman. Practically it's important for your doctor to know if prostate cancer or cervix cancer is more likely to happen in your body.

Call yourself a German Sheppard if you like, but you're still what God (or the Flying Spaghetti Monster) made you.

You say that as if self ID was a simple process. You have all the legal paperwork to consider.

Think about all the things you need your legal name for. Job, Life Insurance, Driving licence, Passport. Social Security. Pensions etc.

Please Remember even those who have transitioned will still not have a Cervix.

Your Doctor would find out if you changed anyway as you have to register with your legal name. Oh and in the UK you get a new medical number too.

[Aunt Kelly]

I am a CD. Most CD's r men who enjoy wearing women's things for a variety of reasons. So, no.:straightface:

Trans, on the other hand, often feel like they r women. Maybe they should move to Scottland...:battingeyelashes:

...or any of the states in the U.S. where it's almost as simple.

And yes, Shelly, I am speaking only of the official government gender marker of record. You are quite right that the paper chase required to get everything else changed over is long and frustrating.

[April Rose]

It's actually something I still wrestle with. As someone who grew up, was socialized and became an adult before being transgender was recognized as not being perversion, or a mental illness and the concept of non-binary was not even on the radar, I haven't been able to firmly convince myself that I am non-binary or that I am not. Indeed, I've met more than one transperson my age who hasn't accepted the concept.

I think you'd need to be pretty convinced of your identity before it becomes wise to put yourself, family, friends and neighbors through the hoops of a process of formal, legal and social identity change.

That said, I still haven't given up on the idea.

[Raychel]

In short answer for me is NO.
I am a guy that likes to dress in woman's clothes. No need to change any gender markings for me.

[Stephanie47]

I dislike labels. Labels tend to take a complicated issue and stick whatever into a convenient box. People like simple boxes. What am I to self declare; I like to wear women's clothing for some unknown reason? If someone were to ask me, I'd have to say "I do not know, why I do, what I do!" That's what I said to my wife when we had "The Talk" in the mid 1980's.

[CynthiaD]

There are times when I am asked for my gender when it's clearly none of the asker?s business. When this happens I always answer "female".

And to answer the OP's question, I would definitely self identify as female if I had the option.

[nancy58]

I would rather self-declare than have someone else declare for me. That already happened once when I was too young to have any say in the matter. Personally, though, I am very, very happy with the X indicating non-binary on my driver's license. As to Helen's comment that there are penalties for people making a declaration so they can do "inappropriate things", really, IMHO, inappropriate things are inappropriate things regardless of the expressed gender (or whatever) of the perpetrator. I will never forget the time over 50 years ago when a man made an inappropriate comment about my anatomy in the men's room. It was inappropriate even though it was coming from a man in the place where his gender belonged.

[OrdinaryAverageGuy]

I've been told by my kids that here in Florida you can already do that when you get your drivers license, and they say they know a guy who did put F on his just for fun. I have not fact-checked this.

But now I'm thinking about Ladies Nite and free drinks. And insurance premiums. Also there can be tax and other breaks for female-owned businesses. Maybe I should rethink this. Why should I let facts get in the way of saving money?

[Gizmo, Debbie]

I’m trans, I’ve been the real me for 12 years now….well nearly the real me.
The only thing I haven’t changed is my birth certificate.
If I die before my dad then my dad, legally, has to say good by to his son.
If I get my birth certificate changed to show female then my my dad would be saying good bye to his daughter.

The only reason I haven’t changed that one last piece of paper was the expense, complexity and invasiveness of the process.
I’ve yet to look up the new way of doing it to see how much better, if any, it all is.
But would it still be worth it?

After all Westminster is still against the idea, with strong indications they won’t acknowledge the change.
Which could be problematic if I ever need help whilst on a trip south of the border.

I don’t know what to do? Which is the best approach? The lesser of the evils?

I really, really, need to take a look at the Scottish process but I’m the queen of procrastination.

[Bobbi46]

Not for me, yes I dress 24/7 but does that enable me to be called Miss Bobbi legally, no as has been said there is the legality of all of the paperwork and as helen rightly pointed out there is the possible of a self decleration coming unstuck for someone. I am happy as I am.

[Simple pleasures]

My crossdressing is more like a hobby for me so I would say no.