To Pass or Not To Pass

[Tricia Lee]

In a post on the photo forum I started thinking about how I personally judge reactions from other people, specofically when I'm just passing by them, evaluating those reactions to determine if I am passing. Off the cuff I came up with this. What am I missing or overlooking?

In a casual passerby situation I seem to pass mostly but not 100%.

I judge passing by the looks/attention I get from someone. It varies according to these sorts of responses:

- Doesn't even look at me directly (good)
- Glances at me then moves on (great)
- Looks at me, then scans me from head to toe and moves on with no other reaction (Best)

These responses account for 95%+ of the reactions I get when walking past someone.

By the way, I label that last reaction as best because I feel like they have given me some level of increased attention and did not find anything out of place.

I consider those responses from a passerby as passing. There is no indication they noticed anything out of place. In the last case they were interested enough to pay attention to me, but didn't have anything but a positive or neutral reaction.

Then there is:

- Locks their gaze on my face

That's the one where I think it's likely they have noticed something off, and are evaluating my facial features. Especially if they are looking at me with an expression of anything approaching curiosity. I can't say I every get any overtly negative expressions, but definitely sometimes there is a weird vibe to the attention even if they are smiling.

There are variations though. Sometimes the person is looking me in the face with a sweet and honest smile. Those I count as passing too.

After writing all that I wonder; Why in the world do I subject myself to all this! lol


[BTW, face to face encounters are completely different. I expect to be read face to face, though sometimes I'm not. The majority of the time it's clear that I am read in personal interactions. I just decided a long time ago to be fine with that!]

[Aunt Kelly]

What you are describing most of us call "blending". If you interact with someone, including an extended conversational exchange, and don't get that wide-eyed, gape-mouthed look, you're probably passing. Either that, or you're dealing with someone woke enough to not be shocked by an interaction with a TG individual.

[Tricia Lee]

I get what you are saying about blending. I've definitely dressed to blend for a long time (though now I'm more comfortable dressing up more, as evidenced by my last post in the picture forum).

But I'd characterize "blending" more as a strategy than a result. Dressing to blend IMO is literally *the* best way to give yourself a chance at passing. In my post I described the other CD'r at the mall on Sunday who was definitely not dressed to blend, and as a result was not passing.

So I'm inclined to stick with my original post, and to call walking past people with certain responses to be literal passing.


When talking about directly interacting with people I would have a whole other set of categories for reactions to use as a guide to evaluating whether you pass. LOL

That said, I can't remember the last time I got the wide-eyed look during a direct interaction. I still don't think I'm generally passing in those situations. Definitely much less than 50% of the time would I think I pass face to face.

[Sandi Beech]

Tricia,

I am not being critical in any way, it just sounds like you are over thinking it. People just are not that observant until you are face to face just as you mentioned. That is when they may pick up on the clues that you just can not do anything about.

Still , don?t sweat it. Your pictures look great so don?t spend time worrying about it and just enjoy the outings.

I don?t know if you saw my post about it:

https://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?280734-Dispelling-a-Myth&highlight=

But if people did not stare at me wearing that. It is not worth trying to monitor peoples reactions. Just my 2 cents worth.

Have fun out there. You should do great anywhere you go. Go out enough, and you will not even give passing a thought.

; )

Sandi

[Princess Chantal]

I am several years (almost couple of decades) removed from concentrating on and reading people?s reactions. The outings are so much more fun to me that way, but then again I do not mind being noticed as a crossdresser/trans rather than a genetic woman. I have absolutely no shame in being a crossdresser and prefer to be taken as such.

[Tricia Lee]

Thanks Sandi. Right, I quit worrying about it a long time ago.

In the moment I do think it's OK to evaluate your surroundings and the reactions you are getting. I'd even say as 'T' people in general we need to be aware of our surroundings and possible problem reactions.

So I'm not overthinking it. Just analyzing it to make the best decisions.

I didn't see your post previously. Thanks for linking. I've noticed something about what you describe for sure! Mornings can be the best time to go out in public. People are more relaxed and their guards are down. I much prefer going out in mornings and day time when possible.


Chantal, for sure. But when walking through a mall with nothing else to think about, often the most interesting thing is people watching. So noticing reactions is just a natural and passive activity.


And then, the three of us have been at it for decades. It's nothing new to us. I'm mainly posting this for people who are newer. It's hard to get out of your head sometimes when out in public. There is nothing wrong with thinking about it and analyzing it.

Saying "just go for it" is not always the best advice.

[Rhonda Jean]

Back when I was younger, skinnier, etc., etc., and had a shot at passing I was obsessed with it. I actually asked people, SAs mostly, "When I was here yesterday in the blue dress, could you tell I was not a woman?" If they could tell, I'd ask what gave me away. The best time I found to tell if you pass or not is Halloween. If you don't pass, people think you're in costume and let you know in one way or another. The don't try to hide their reaction to be polite like they might on an ordinary day. There are people who seem to have a particular knack for picking up on the "tells", but those are pretty few. What I found in general was that I couldn't tell by someone's reaction whether I passed or not. The other surprise was sometimes when I didn't pass it turned out to be more gratifying than if I had. I think it was easier to pass years ago. Back then, people really had only two categories, male or female. Something had to jar them out of that, so if you weren't jarring, you probably could pass. Now everybody has that "other" category in their head and it doesn't take much for them to go to "other".

One of my more notable non-passing was at the beauty school I used to frequent. I was down there a lot for hair, mani-pedis, brows, facials. Everybody knew me, were over-the-top complimentary, and I was completely relaxed and myself the whole time I was there regardless of other clients. It was like a party every time I went, and it was one of my happy places for sure. Typically they'd wash and roll my hair, then I'd go over to this long elevated bench for my pedicure (clients sat side by side on this bench for pedis instead of having individual chairs), then go to the manicure table, then under the hair dryer. The girl who did my nails said when I left to go to the dryer, one of the ladies who had been back there with me the whole time and had been in the waiting area with me asked her if I was a man or a woman. She told her, "Well, she wasn't born a woman." The client told her, Oh my God! You tell her that she's just gorgeous! I kept looking at her and thinking definitely woman, then I'd hear her voice and think not. I've never seen anyone like her before! She's just stunning!" If I had passed, I would have been just another woman. I realize her compliments were exaggerated, but this was 100 times better than passing, and I'll never forget it.

After seeing many of your pictures, it seems that for all intents and purposes you pass with flying colors. When you don't, I bet you're getting a reaction similar to the above. Those days are behind me. Enjoy it while you can!

[Sandi Beech]

Tricia,

Oh no, I have been playing around with dressing for a long time, but never socially until 2017 when I went into a bar for the first time, and I was quite nervous at the time. It took me a while to get over my fears. Last year I went out so many times, 2017 seems like the distant past now.

But I get what you are saying. I do pay attention more so to where I go than anything. But then again, I am a clubbing night owl.

Sandi

[Ursula Harrison]

Tricia, perhaps you and I are not using the same definition of passing. All the scenarios you describe would be fine by me but it doesn't mean that I have passed, i.e. been mistaken for a woman. It more likely means the person looking at you can't be bothered remarking on it, or is too polite, or possibly even is scared of being accused of a hate crime.

Asian "ladyboys" aside virtually none of us actually pass. However if you put some effort into it, as you obviously do, it is relatively easy to pass at a distance or pass in a crowd. The vast majority of people are far too busy with their own thoughts and problems to notice whether or not that person in a dress over there is actually a genetic female.

As you say, one-to-one, it's virtually a given that you will be read. Apart from the other party getting a real good close up of you your voice will give youaway the second you open your mouth. Like you, I've reached a point where I'm happy with that.

[Brenda Freeman]

I was so nervous when I first started going out as I so wanted to be the girl and not stand out. Over time I have become quite comfortable and focus more on what I am doing. I do notice for the most part people go about their business so I may be blending with the crowd. But I also notice some women give me a big smile and a nice hello or conversation, I have had many compliment me on my hair since I grew it out it has natural curls,. This tells me they know but are supportive or caring and I do enjoy this a feeling of being accepted. As I have aged I am caring less and just being myself! I think age and experience has some advantages still remember the young frightened person I was but what a rush back then, had to be done, no regrets!

[Aunt Kelly]

Exactly, Princess. In fact, being clocked by the scowlers is what I live for. Giving them a smile or a wave across a crowded restaurant produces the most entertaining responses, and a wink? OMG, the squirming is priceless. :)

In all seriousness though, it is always my hope that such interactions eventually result in considered reflection, wherein the scowler realizes that he/she has let his/her self be made uncomfortable by something so inconsequential.

[ShawnaL]

I am several years (almost couple of decades) removed from concentrating on and reading people?s reactions. The outings are so much more fun to me that way, but then again I do not mind being noticed as a crossdresser/trans rather than a genetic woman. I have absolutely no shame in being a crossdresser and prefer to be taken as such.

I feel the same way, Chantal...it's an absolute blessing just to feel comfortable in my own skin...and the femininity I exude is real...I LOVE being me!

[docrobbysherry]

Tricia, it sounds like your definition of passing is when someone passes u by without noticing, caring, or even thinking about u.:straightface:

But, actually our passing means, "They thot I was a woman!":heehee:

That requires getting someone's complete attention. Having a one on one action with them. Possibly even having a discussion?:)

As one who has actually passed a few times I can tell u, if someone thinks u r a woman without a doubt, they treat u way different than if they're not sure. And, in my experience being thot a woman can be quite humbling!:sad:

[DianeT]

Tricia, the fact that people go on their business after glancing at you is no proof that you pass. My wife and I see CDers and trans people from time to time when walking around the city, and we don't stare for two simple reasons: we were educated not to, and we don't care, we live and let live.

[Genifer Teal]

You can't really be sure what someone is thinking. I decided a long time ago, if I go out and get treated well and have regular interactions with people then i passed (the test). I don't care what they really think unless they feel the need to tell me. That is passing to me.

[GaleWarning]

People who are difficult to categorize often wander into the OpShop. I think we all notice such people, but we don't care. When serving them, I don't comment. My colleagues and I treat them as we would any other customer.

To me, passing is when someone walks up to me and introduces herself, and I am gobsmacked because I would never have realized that they were cross dressed.

This has happened to me on several occasions, when I was gazing about expectantly, as we had made an appointment to meet.

Most of us do not, and never will, pass. The important things to realize are that most people don't care how we are dressed, and there is no need to feel nervous or ashamed.

[char GG]

You might be overthinking your situation a little bit. Most people don't scan others up and down (your definition of the "best" pass) but go on about their own business.

As Diane T said, many people are polite, don't stare, and have the live and let live attitude.

[Tricia Lee]

LOL at a lot of these responses.

I clearly spelled out two completely different scenarios/contexts that could be considered as someone passing. The lower threshold being moving around in public unnoticed, or at least not garnering any extra attention compared to a GG in a similar situation. Personal interactions are specifically not included in this.

Most of my post relates to that topic.

I added a post script delineating person interactions as a completely separate and higher bar to clear.

I'm super happy for all the self assured CDs out there doing it their own way..

Of course no one is a mind reader, me least of all. That doesn't preclude taking a thoughtful approach to evaluating how you are being perceived by other human beings.

LOL most at the "we" think this way and "we" define things that way responses! ;)

[Fiona_44]

Tricia,

My thoughts on whether I "pass" or not are identical to yours. I am confident that when out among the general public I pass 95% of the time. Having only started going out in public en femme in May 2022, I was unsure about whether I did or not but after befriending a number of more experienced CD's they all assured me that I did and I should not be concerned in the least. As far as face to face interactions, if it involves only exchanging a few words with someone such as saying "thank you" to a cashier or asking a SA a quick question, I pass less often but still the majority of the time. In more involved conversations, most of the time I am clocked but not every time.

For example: I was eating alone in a restaurant with a middle aged husband/wife sitting next to me and another couple (male & female friends) I thought were in their 50's were sitting near me. As the wife in couple #1 got up to leave, she complimented me on my blouse and liked how the color blended with my look. We talked blouses for a minute or two then they left. As I got up to leave, I walked over to couple #2 and told the woman (who was extremely attractive) that I loved her beautiful blond hair. She laughed and then placed her hand on my forearm (as women sometimes do when talking with another woman), thanked me and agreed it looked good even though she was in her 60's. I told her she looked much younger and not to feel bad because I was a good bit older than her. She said "no way" and complimented my looks, still holding my arm. We were two women just having a little gabfest. I turned to her male friend and told him how lucky he was to now have two attractive women at his table. He agreed and we all wished each other well as I left. Of course I have no idea what any of these people thought or said to each other later on but I am 99% sure that I was just another woman to them. I was on cloud 9 for a long time after that night and my confidence level shot way up.

And being clocked, whether in passing or in conversation, does not bother me in the least. I am very comfortable being me and someone's reaction is not going to change that.

Fiona

[ShawnaL]

"I am very comfortable being me and someone's reaction is not going to change that."

Beautifully said, and a beautiful attitude, Fiona!
Shawna

[Cheryl T]

Years ago I would have given anything to truly "pass".
I always had this voice in my head telling me that everyone around me knew I wasn't a woman and they were all snickering and such. Then I really began to accept myself and realized it's never going to happen. There is such a small percentage of us that truly pass and that's all because they have the right genetics, be it a feminine face, a petite build or whatever. For me at 5'11" it's never happening. My focus then changed from passing to acceptance. I found that if my appearance is real, meaning I'm not some caricature in how I dress or do my makeup, and I carry myself with poise and confidence then most will accept me as I am. Of course some will still comment or laugh, but I no longer care if they do. The majority see me as the woman I feel I am and accept me as such. They may not agree, they may not condone, but none of that matters.
Hold your head high and carry yourself proudly.

[TheHiddenMe]

I have written before is what I'd like is to be given the benefit of the doubt.

That said, my belief is that people instinctively judge gender based on their first glances, and there is enough "off" to instantly judge we're not GGs. I have a male body and I believe people instinctively recognize that.

In short, do I think I pass, no. Too many people have paid me compliments that tells me they know I'm not a GG (shop clerks, other customers). Dressing has help made me friends that I would never have otherwise, and those friends enrich my life.

OTOH, no one has ever called me a "w*nker" to my face (nod to Ted Lasso), and I've never had a bad experience.

But in most cases we don't know what other people are thinking, and never will. So why worry about it?

My philosophy is people may know it's a man in a dress, but they don't know it's ME in the dress--and I want to make sure it's a pretty dress.

[Rachel Anne]

A long time ago, I read on from one of the first internet "T" folks that the key to passing was found in 3 things: face, hair and voice. So I always worked hard on those (the voice was especially hard). For me, personally, I think body shape is a key as well, but it doesn't take much. Just a bit of pad and a bit of tuck in the waist covers it. When I first started going out on my own, away from my close group of friends who had encouraged me, a friend who had really helped me tune my "public" side said "you look like a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs! You look great! Relax...you're giving people a reason to scrutinize". It wasn't easy, but I took that to heart.

I would say, though, my biggest confidence comes from improving my voice. Yes, it gave me a lot of satisfaction when I cracked the code on it, but also it seems to disarm people if something else might be off in my presentation. To be fair, I don't have big shoulders, or any other "tell" that might ordinarily give pause, because I'm pretty far into the overlap between male/female body sizes/types, but you never know when you might have missed something.

[Geena75]

You may be asking the wrong crowd about this. I have received some flattering comments here indicating that I pass when I know I do not. I would think the most true judge of it would be GG's who have personally met you.

That said, I think people could be divided into four categories. One small group are those who recognize a CD, think it is OK and interesting, and may make a positive comment. A much larger group are those who don't care, even if they can tell, and don't react. Another large group are those who, while they don't particularly like the idea of CD, don't care enough to react even when they can tell. Then there is the very very small group who really don't like it and will react, sometimes with words. I think that we sometimes are too concerned with the last group.

[Debbie Denier]

I think passing is in the eye of the beholder as is beauty. Opinions will vary from person to person.

[Maid_Marion]

There is a new lady in the office that is gorgeous. She is a big girl so she makes sure she looks good wearing a dress, makeup, and jewelry. She is now in a happy place!

[kimdl93]

In my experience, the most common responses I get are those first three reactions (ignore/glance/and look-over?each combined with no other apparent reaction). Given my height and some other structural characteristics, I assume nothing from the reactions beyond indifference. I am good with indifference.

I never assume that I pass, not ever. On a few occassions, I apparently have, and take those as a bonus.

[Tricia Lee]

Kim, your comment "I never assume that I pass" is good advice. It was when I took that attitude that I was able to relax, which is super important as others have mentioned.

And I still don't tend to assume that I pass, but based on hundreds if not thousands of these "passerby" moments, and the changes in those reactions over time, for me personally I do believe the first three reactions I listed indicate that person assumes I'm genetically female. I'm sure it's not 100% but I think it's close.



You might be overthinking your situation a little bit.

Thinking about such things is not equal to overthinking about such things. I also find that doing this analysis in the moment while out in public is somewhat relaxing . It keeps my mind busy.


Most people don't scan others up and down (your definition of the "best" pass) but go on about their own business.

Yes, the 'best' reaction is also the most rare. I get that maybe 5% of the time. So 1 out of 20 people I pass by. Always a woman.

There is a variation of that reaction that I regard as definitely not passing. It starts with eye contact, then the rake from head to toe, followed by another hard look at my face. That is a definite "read".

I used to get that reaction a lot. That changed when I added body shaping to my presentation. Now the up and down rake is almost always the last attention paid. It seems that body shape is the defining factor that makes people's minds click the "female" check box. More on that later...



A long time ago, I read on from one of the first internet "T" folks that the key to passing was found in 3 things: face, hair and voice. So I always worked hard on those (the voice was especially hard). For me, personally, I think body shape is a key as well.

Definitely agree! But I'd point out that the voice is only critical in face to face interactions. If you are just passing by someone it's a non-factor. Voice is definitely my weak spot but I'm working on it.

The other three are important all the time. My observation is that a lot of people here get close on hair and face, but never move on to doing anything about body shape...

Body Shape!

This was the thing that pushed me over the top in passerby situations. I noticed an incredible difference in reactions once I added hip padding to the equation. If you create something close to an hourglass shape, with reasonable proportions, then a lot of times even at a distance they will assume you are female and pay no more attention. If it does come down to that "head to toe" rake of someone's eyes from up close, usually the body shape will end the attention they pay to you.


I would say, though, my biggest confidence comes from improving my voice. Yes, it gave me a lot of satisfaction when I cracked the code on it, but also it seems to disarm people if something else might be off in my presentation. To be fair, I don't have big shoulders, or any other "tell" that might ordinarily give pause, because I'm pretty far into the overlap between male/female body sizes/types, but you never know when you might have missed something.

I hope I can get there with my voice sometime soon. I'm doing as much female voice karaoke singing as I can these days, which is helping.

Rachel, you mentioned people noticing "if something else might be off in my presentation". This is what it all comes down to. Maximizing the feminine appearance cues, and minimizing the masculine. I feel I'm pretty close to having the appearance part down. My biggest areas for improvement are voice and deportment.

Analyzing reactions of people over the years has given me a baseline that allows me to gauge progress. It's not overthinking or overanalyzing. It's just thinking and analyzing to improve myself. If you just want to go for it and not worry about people's reaction that's great for you. That's not what I'm after. I'm always trying to improve, and their is no other way to gauge progress.

Like I said, I started this post thinking about people who want to start going out but haven't. I'm just relaying my own experience and thought processes. I've done pretty well with it so far. Your mileage may vary.

The other thing I'm delineating is the difference between passing face to face, and just passing while moving around in public with no personal interaction. I started with the latter, and I'm sure most people do. As I started to feel confident in that regard based on the reactions of people now I'm ready to concentrate more on the face to face part. Seem like a natural progression.

[NancySue]

Hi Tricia, I always enjoy your pictures and stories. I agree with Sandi. IMO, your pass ability is top drawer. You always look fantastic. It?s obvious, you are very meticulous about your presentation and it shows. Your gorgeous striking blue eyes alone would bring attention. Ditto. Continue what you?re doing and enjoy it. And continue your posts and pictures. I enjoyed your karaoke tapes?.a talented musician, too. Impressive.

[Rachel Anne]

Hi Tricia,

Agree. Some see it as a binary proposition, but it isn't. As Marion pointed out, people come in all shapes and sizes, and those ranges overlap with one another. The trick is to push yourself as far into one range as you can while minimizing the part that pulls you into the other and hope the average works to your advantage.

I was very skeptical about the voice part. First, I had zero innate talent for it, which is really disappointing if you watch a few videos and are frustrated by how easy other people seem to make it. Some people just have a natural talent. Second, I had the thought process that if you just don't say anything, then there's not a problem. The problem stems, I think, is that it is a confidence issue. There's always some random chance a passerby will engage, and maybe sub-consciously we work to avoid any possibilities of that, and it may show in our body language. So I made it a priority. The key for me was, ironically enough, brute force. I just practiced every day, days on end, and weeks turned into months and months and months. And I had to keep it up.

On body shape we are in complete agreement, but I don't think it takes very much. Just something to break up the lines. I'm a small person, weak shoulders and I keep my weight in check. In male mode, I don't look good at all because of it (think "scrawny", and that's a whole other tale of woe), but while fem mode looks better because I'm more solidly in that range, I'm a bean pole which would still be off unless I add something. My every day routine includes a Rago waist nipper (they last forever!), and a pair of small hip pads made for GGs ("Sculptress", made by Dresstech, I think, and also well made). I have a pair of Ameona forms that I use that are "average" for a GG of my height. Between the three, it breaks up my lines just enough.

I started out as a nervous wreck, but now I'm loving it as I got my look tuned. Some things I can't wear, anything low cut or super tight fitting, but by an large, I can toss an outfit together without much trouble, grab my stuff and be on my way.

[Lisa516]

I have absolutely no shame in being a crossdresser and prefer to be taken as such.

Awesome I subscribe to that.....

[Tricia Lee]

...I had the thought process that if you just don't say anything, then there's not a problem. The problem stems, I think, is that it is a confidence issue. There's always some random chance a passerby will engage, and maybe sub-consciously we work to avoid any possibilities of that, and it may show in our body language.

Yes, for sure! I started noticing that about myself once I started being comfortable around people. Especially SA's will often speak to you. It's not uncommon for other random people to speak to you. I recognized I have to be ready to say something, anything. I'm getting better.

My worst voice moment was one time being in a women's restroom in a mainstream night spot. Someone made a joke and I instinctively made some random comment. Next thing I hear from a woman in a stall is "is there a man in here!?!" LOL. I got the heck out of there fast. :)


On body shape we are in complete agreement, but I don't think it takes very much. Just something to break up the lines.

You are lucky with your stature when it comes to this activity. I think the amount it takes depends on what you have to work with. You are one of the fortunate ones! :)

I often wish I was smaller and thinner. But in reality, I don't want to do this full time. So I'm actually super happy with where I'm at. I'm a bit above average height for men, so that helps as a man. But I'm no taller than many of the tallest women commonly seen in public. So I'm kind of in a sweet spot for living in both modes.

If I was a bit shorter, and had narrower shoulders, and less muscular arms, I'd pass much easier. But I'm pretty happy with my "guy" persona as well as my Tricia deal! :)

With my wider shoulders I have to do a bit more to get good proportions. I use a waist cincher and some DIY hip pads.

I did recently really decrease size of my breast forms. I'm probably close to an A cup just from pectoral muscle and fat tissue. Now I'm putting a A cup form on top that what I naturally have for about a B cup, and the result is a lot better than my earlier larger cup sizes. I'm already top heavy, and large forms just increased the volume up top without helping proportions at all.

The karaoke pics in my turquoise dress in the picture forum has the smaller forms. I feel very confident with that look.


I started out as a nervous wreck, but now I'm loving it as I got my look tuned.

Love it!

[Diane P]

Here is something that is really amusing, from my days in the Air Force as an Air Traffic Controller. For 17 of my 20 years in the AF I worked in radar, when I would be giving a pilot vectors or other instructions a lot of the time I get a "thank you, ma'am" response to which I would reply "that's sir" and get an immediate apology. I know my voice is slightly higher pitched but not sure if it would pass as female or nor when I'm dressed.

[Rachel Anne]

You are lucky with your stature when it comes to this activity. I think the amount it takes depends on what you have to work with. You are one of the fortunate ones!

Ha, fortunate for this, but for everything else being a GM, it was horrible. I look back and laugh about it now, but because of my size, I was always "picked last for the team", literally and metaphorically. Men do a lot of sizing each other up in social interactions, which inevitably lead to business interactions.

I got really tired of it, which is why I'm happy I left it all behind.

[Maid_Marion]

Half the time I got picked last and the other half I was the last guy!

I got speech therapy to modulate my sentences. After that I got gendered female on the phone all the time!

I can pass wearing skimpy summer clothes that show off my hourglass figure.

Marion

[TheHiddenMe]

My worst voice moment was one time being in a women's restroom in a mainstream night spot. Someone made a joke and I instinctively made some random comment. Next thing I hear from a woman in a stall is "is there a man in here!?!" LOL. I got the heck out of there fast.

When I am out with my GG friends, and we use the ladies room together (as ladies do), I gently remind them before we enter I prefer not to talk in the stalls, for the same reason--"why is there a man in here".

In my friends defense, they tell me they don't hear a man's voice, they hear Dee's voice.

As to the whole voice issue, I figure that if someone is close enough to talk to me, they have probably realized already I'm not a GG. Honestly, my voice has never been an issue. Another fear of all of us with little real life consequences.

[Tricia Lee]

Dee, right, never an issue, except in the ladies room apparently! Yes, I go to restaurants, even alone and order without worrying about it. I seem to get a lot of interaction while I'm out, even compliments and things, and I'm getting more at ease with responding. It just takes time and experience. Good experiences help the most! lol



Ha, fortunate for this, but for everything else being a GM, it was horrible. I look back and laugh about it now, but because of my size...

I got really tired of it, which is why I'm happy I left it all behind.

I totally get it. I wonder if this is a big differentiating factor for a lot of people.

I was/am successful and happy as a dude. Always did well in sports and dating. That said, I always wanted to present a feminine persona, but not at the expense of my male life.

I think if I was not happy with my guy self, and I was as happy or happier as I am being "Tricia", I think the tables would likely turn.




I got speech therapy to modulate my sentences. After that I got gendered female on the phone all the time!

I can pass wearing skimpy summer clothes that show off my hourglass figure.

Lucky! :)

[Amelie]

When I was younger and up to a few years ago I'd dress as a goth. So people stared at me regardless of passing. I figure if they are going to stare I'd give them something to stare at. Passing was never a concern, I know I didn't pass but it wasn't going to stop me living the way I want. For the most part, life was fun.

[Krisi]

I believe "passing" means a person walking by doesn't give you a second thought. Just as if you were an actual woman.

[Natalie5004]

When out and about I stand tall and strong. In my head I say that I have every right to be here. That makes the fears go away.

But in all honesty, if there are 2 women in a store isle, I will skip walking past them and just go around. That is my insecurity showing its true colors.

I have to get over that.

[sometimes_miss]

Well, if you want to hear that you pass, you've come to the right place. Crossdressers.com is a lovely, safe feel good about being a crossdresser place. So we'll all support what you want to hear, and say what you want us to say.
But, really now. Look in the mirror, and perhaps take a video of yourself walking and moving about the house, (just tape your phone to a wall or something) and you will know if you pass.
If you don't, well, don't feel bad at all. >99% of us don't have a chance of passing, and most of us are okay with that.

- Doesn't even look at me directly (good)
- Glances at me then moves on (great)
- Looks at me, then scans me from head to toe and moves on with no other reaction (Best)

None of those indicate that you pass. All it means is that they have no reason or need, to talk to you at the moment.

[Angela Marie]

Whenever I dress and take an initial look I don't think I look very good. When I go out I seem to look better. Perhaps it's the light. Same think happened to me yesterday. I wen shopping and no one seemed to notice. I just assume I pass and relax.

[Tricia Lee]

None of those indicate that you pass. All it means is that they have no reason or need, to talk to you at the moment.

Wow! Omniscient, and a mind reader! LOL



I believe "passing" means a person walking by doesn't give you a second thought. Just as if you were an actual woman.

Exactly!

That's what I'm getting at with the original post. It's a mixture of you presenting well enough combined with a passerby not paying enough attention to read you. The better the presentation the less attention you will get. If something is off then the attention level increases and you get clocked. It's easy to tell when that happens.

I spent enough years not passing in this context to generally know when I do. It's obviously not 100% accurate since I'm not a mind reader like some here. :)

[Krisi]

Yes. And some of the things crossdressers often do that are "off" are dressing inappropriately for the time and place. Wearing heels to the grocery store for one. Too much makeup or jewelry ot too short of a skirt.

To increase the likelihood of passing, one has to dress and act like a woman would in that situation.

[Sandi Beech]

Personally, I like being noticed. I specifically recall two instances when I noticed women dressed better than typical. One was in the airport at my gate, and one was in the grocery store. I paid compliments to both and they both appreciated that I noticed. People seem to think all attention is negative. I have been out a lot last year. In my experience, the attention I received was good. I did not have a single negative reaction, and I am sure I was clocked many times. It is not an issue as far as I am concerned.

Sandi

[Fiona_44]

I like being noticed too Sandi and sometimes I dress to make sure I get noticed. Like you I have never had a bad reaction.