Isolating?

[Beano980]

Sorry to go deep here, but as my current relationship is ending, I'm pondering what the future looks like for me in a new relationship. I wold love to hear from others their thoughts on how common is it in your experience for women to actually accept being in a relationship with a crossdresser? I don't mean tolerate or accept some form of DADT. I mean really accept it and be comfortable with it? My fear is that it's almost zero. I do enjoy crossdressing and often think hey, it should really be no big deal. Considering all the vices in the world, its harmless. But is it? Thats not my lived experience. My x is horrified by it and thinks is deviant behavior that should be eliminated. In my dark days, I tend to agree with her about eliminating it ( not that its deviant). I would be devastated if my kids found out that's for sure. My hunting and fishing buddies would be shocked and drop me from the group. So, if I accept that I'm correct in understanding the view of my x, my kids and my friends, doesn't it make their perspective more in line with reality? Am I in denial about my thoughts on crossdressing being no big deal? There is no doubt my life would be easier and it would open up more options in future partners if my inner fem wold go away. But, I just can't. I'm sure you can understand. I've tried over the years with mixed levels of success, but the urge always returns. I'm terrified of being humiliated if my crossdressing were common knowledge to my kids and friends. So, how can I expect a future partner to have a different view than I have? Yikes, I can really get my head all messed up when I think about this. Is my only real option moving forward to keep this side of me hidden from all my relationships and only crossdress those times when I'm alone? I don't want to live an isolated life just so I can tame my urges. Thank you all in advance for your perspectives.

[Crissy 107]

I can say there are not many here who have an SO that is 100% on board with their CDing. I am in a DADT marriage and can live with it but of course always want more.
As we all know this will not go away, I tried, and many others have tried also with no luck for long.
I feel that when you find another GF that you talk about it early on. Good luck!

[char GG]

I can't speak to the current statistics/dating situation. However, it seems many people in the US are more informed about gender variances than even twenty years ago.

It sounds like you want to keep your CDing a secret from your friends and family. That may work for you. However, if you plan on entering the dating world, I will strongly caution you to make sure that if you find someone who you want to spend more time with, to tell her early on (as Crissy said). Also, make sure that you don't just say it's an "occasional" pastime, if it really is something you do more every day. You will save her and yourself a lot of time and grief if she is not on board. In other words, don't start a serious relationship with secrets. Be honest and don't make promises that you can't keep. Many women look at the overall person, and do not just focus on one aspect.


There are members on this forum that have wives or significant others. If you read through the posts, you will find a lot of tips and advice.

One other suggestion: don't try to jump into the dating world after just ending a relationship. You may want to give yourself some reflection time before you proceed.

[Aunt Kelly]

The sad fact is that all of us under the "transgender umbrella" are, by and large neither understood nor accepted. Sadder still is the fact that bitter partners in failed relationships often do things for no other reason than to hurt the other partner. It is for this reason that I always recommend full disclosure as soon as the relationship starts to look serious. This is a part of who you are, and a potential partner deserves to know this. By the same token, you deserve to know if they are accepting or not. Trust me on this, the act of opening up about something so personal speaks volumes to the right person. It shows that you value the relationship enough that you are willing to make yourself vulnerable in that way. If they reject you at that point, you are much better off.
You know that you can't "tame your urges" permanently. They are going to surface eventually, and if you have kept that from a partner in a "permanent" relationship you will be miserable, or risk the deception being discovered and wrecking that relationship. Accept this part of yourself and live without shame and guilt.

[docrobbysherry]

I was in the closet when married and hid my dressing from the family. After divorce I've gone out dressed a lot and live alone so am free to dress whenever.:thumbsup:

But, I only dress out away from home. I'm just a CD, not a trans!:battingeyelashes:

I tried dating big time after my divorce. But, never got serious enuff to talk about my dressing with any of those women.:sad:

In my experience, women r intrigued by men who dress. But, finding one who will date a dresser is like finding a unicorn!:eek:

[Linda Stockings]

I agree with Char most definitely. I tried to add some things, but they were only repeating things she has already said. And she said them in better words and better verbiage than mine.

[Sandi Beech]

I am not in any way disagreeing with the good advice already given, but I would like to share another perspective.

We see advice over and over about bringing up crossdressing very early on in any new relationship. Even at those early stages, I feel it is risky. But hear me out. If I were single and looking, I would prefer meeting women on day one while I am crossdressed. I just feel like instead of risking rejection, why not meet people who are accepting from the get go. You know for sure because they would not want to date you if not accepting - so no wasted effort.

Granted, you have to go out some to be able to meet people that way, and I do that generally speaking away from my home and choose to keep this activity separate from friends, family , and work. Even so I do meet women who are fully accepting when I go out to clubs. Last week one woman told me she wanted me if I ever got divorced. I am pretty sure she meant it. So they are out there, just not enough that you are likely to start dating first and have a high success rate with acceptance later. A number here have been lucky in that regard, but I hate rejection myself so I would want a prospect to meet me crossdressed first. Whether that could really work out, I do not know. It is just my current thinking, right or wrong based on meeting many people in my travels.


Good luck to you. I hope it works out. Never give up.

Sandi

[Beano980]

Thank you for the feedback. I will for sure be 100% open with a new partner once it's clear there is potential ( like after the 3rd or 4th date). I did not disclose prior to my marriage and like sooo many others figured it would go away once I was married. And, it did, for a long time. But, as we all know, it came back. I hid it for many years and was ultimately discovered and then everything seemed to go downhill. Don't get me wrong, there were many many other issues, but to say it was not an important part of the reason we divorced I think would be disingenuous. We stuck together until our kids were on their own but now that we are empty nesters, it's time for us both to move on.

I worked with a very good therapist for many years who specializes in this area. She said some things that have stuck with me. 1. In her experience working with couples with crossdressing, at first SOME women can accept it, for a while, but then ultimately they don't. And secondly, relationships are only made more intimate by vulnerability. Both statements have hit home with me and I will not enter into another relationship with any cards not fully on the table.

[Natalie5004]

Beano,

I went through a divorce 28 years ago. I felt terrible because I had 3 young kids. It took me 5 years to get to the point where I was feeling good about myself again.

Now I know that was the best thing that ever happened to me. So, keep the faith. In the long run, you will be much better off.

New relationships are something that you now can control and be your true self. It happened to me. It can and will happen with you.

Hugs, Natalie

[Di]

Love what Char GG wrote.

From another GG
It always returns and this forum we hear about his over and over that it went away then boom after marriage it comes roaring back.
What we find in our GG private section the hardest thing for the GGs to get over is NOT being told.
Yes some do not like it at all but that is rare , they feel betrayed, lied to , not trusted with the truth.
Why would you want to be with someone that does not love all of you?
My advice after you start getting serious with someone explain it .
There are posts here helping you to talk to your loved one.
It causes much more heartbreak afterwards. Like I said the GG feels betrayed.
After all these years I never found anyone that stopped forever. All the forum is full of heartbreaking posts about getting married, then the boom the desire comes back.Then the hiding, sneaking and feeling frustrated they cannot dress starts.
I really would not to be in a relationship where I can?t share my entire life with.

ADD
I am sorry you are going through what you are, but from this experience it seems like you look at it as crossdressing is something wrong.
It is not but lies to a partner In my opinion are.
Be alone for awhile, get to know and like yourself.

[GaleWarning]

It's been said a few times already, but it needs to be stressed:
Don't rush into a new relationship!

[Teresa.Smith.VA]

I too love what Char GG and Di wrote. Being totally honest early in a relationship is the single most important thing one can do to build trust that may lead to support, understanding and acceptance. Trust is essential.

[Princess Chantal]

I bet crossdressers are more likely able to gain accepting relationships with women by doing social hobbies in which they could do while crossdressed. Stuff like joining a cribbage league, billiards league, book club, or bowling league; attending poetry readings, karaoke nights, open mics, or trivia nights regularly; and taking on cooking classes, dance classes, and art classes.

[Debs]

Its amazing the amount of attention I get from women when out dressed, so why not do it that way instead of having to tell your new potential partner and go screamimg down that possible black hole. your single now you can go out dressed all you want. start with the local lgbt comunities, there is a lot of support there.

[kimdl93]

Reality is that a lot of people have prejudices. That does not mean that their prejudices are correct and does not mean that you are obligated to agree with or share their biases. It does mean that you may find some people in your family and circle of friends that are incapable of accepting and/or supporting you. So you have to decide who you want to share this part of yourself with.

As for relationships, let me suggest that, right now, the last thing you should be thinking about is the next relationship. Get used to being alone and give yourself a good deal of time to get settled and recovered from the end of this relationship. Time in terms of many months, or better a few years, before you rebound.

[Diane P]

Beano I'm single again just as you are. Though my being single is due to my passing last July. I'm going to wait until it has been a year before I consider dating again. Having been married twice, the first one ended in divorce, I don't know how serious I'm liable to get with any other women. I'll just wait and see what happens, but if it does go semi-serious I definitely plan to let her know about my crossdressing. In the long run I'd rather be single the rest of my life than trying to hide who I truly am.

[docrobbysherry]

What's a "basement"? I've seen them on TV but still not sure?:straightface:

[Nyla F]

I really like Sandi's advice and it got me wondering if one is the type of crossdresser that doesn't go out fully dressed, what can one do to increase the odds that someone who seems interested in you will be accepting? I'm thinking, providing some visual clue like nail polish. Anyone who would talk to a guy with nail polish isn't looking for a super masculine partner. Just a thought, but I don't have any experience in this area.

[ronny0]

For what it is worth my 2 cents.....
Life is short, if you are not sure, you shouldn't be out LOOKING.
BUT if you wait, ya just don't know what you may have missed out on.
Yes, make sure you are a happy camper with yourself and your choices. Don't head out being desperate to find someone / anyone.
Still I would keep my toes in the dating pool just so you keep up your social skills.
We just don't know when "The Right One" will come along, just as we don't know how many more sunrises / sunsets we have in our future.

[Genifer Teal]

A basement is like a cellar. A mostly below ground level part of a house. A cellar is completely underground. A basement has windows above ground level.

[alwayshave]

Beano, my wife is accepting and even encouraging. I told her early in our relationship. I knew if she wasn't going to be accepting, it would be the death knell of our relationship. As I have gotten older my need to dress has gotten more acute not less, so I would have to be with someone who is accepting or be single.

[GretchenM]

I have a few things to add to what others have already said. Much excellent advice, especially from Char and Di, but others as well. It is a tough road.

I think Debs has a point in you considering being active in the LGBTQ groups. At least there you may meet someone who already understands, but if you are looking for a woman who is more cis that is not going to work out.

I also think age is a factor. I don't know what your age is, but the older the person the more likely they are not going to be very accepting. It's a generational thing. Any way you cut it though it is difficult if you want a great deal of freedom and her remain reasonably normal. That is asking quite a lot of anyone. I think your best bet is to reveal early but be willing to find a compromise when that becomes a factor. Don't approach acceptance and compromises early on as that gives the impression you are a manipulative person and these days that is unlikely to go anywhere.

Coming out is always risky and transitioning is even more so. You can lose a lot of friends or at least lose the respect of old friends. Big changes often rip the fabric of relationships and sometimes rip it to shreds. Finding compromises is always the best course. But secrecy about big issues that involve the status of the relationship in a loving relationship is like planting bombs in the road the couple is traveling no matter what the secret is about. Don't go there.

I fully agree very strongly that this behavior pattern rarely ever goes away. The foundation of the gender variant person is pretty solid. There are choices made along the journey, but the road itself is quite solidly planted and is not likely to be a choice.

However, the behavior pattern can be managed as it is not deterministic and that is where compromises enter the picture. Plus compromises respects the rights and views of the other person. When you make a compromise, stay faithful to the terms. I came out 11 years ago. It was rocky at first, but we compromised. Tuesday we celebrated our 54th anniversary. She accepts the compromises and I have adapted to the compromises being suitable to continue an existence of my Gretchen side as a part of behavior management in the marital relationship. I don't have a lot of flexibility but my priorities are in the marriage and that is where her priorities are as well. But we also recognize that we are both still individuals with our inherent quirks. It sounds like a delicate balance but it isn't. You just consider the needs of each other a lot and then find ways to mesh those needs together out of respect for the individuality of each person that forms the foundation of the relationship.

[Krisi]

It doesn't matter what is "common", what matters is, will the woman you enter into a relationship accept your crossdressing. That's one particular woman. Nobody on the Internet can answer that question, only she can.

[NancySue]

I, too, agree with Char and Di. I kept my dressing a secret from the get-go. However, I wanted no secrets after we got engaged. So, I told her, betting she?d run. She didn?t. We talked a lot as she had some concerns, but at least the cat was out of the bag. When my birthday came, she handed me a nicely wrapped box with a bow. Her card said ?enjoy?. When I opened it I found black panties, an underwire bra, and two pair of thigh high stockings. I was speechless. Telling her definitely was the best thing I ever did. Having a supportive and helpful wife is fantastic. That was years ago. It?s only gotten better.

[Brenda Freeman]

I think if I suddenly found myself alone and wanted a relationship I would take my time. I think you can learn a lot about people thru conversation. Find out their views on the LGBT community. Maybe go to a drag show and see where the conversation goes. I think unless you see it getting serious bringing up crossdressing is not necessary. Everyone comes with baggage.

[Chelsea B]

Just a perfect reply to the OP, Aunt Kelly, and so relevant to my own situation with my wife.

[JulieC]

1. In her experience working with couples with crossdressing, at first SOME women can accept it, for a while, but then ultimately they don't.

That's an empty statement without knowing what her experience base is. I find that comment to be untrue, in fact VERY untrue with a number of known posters here, including me. My wife knew about my crossdressing after we'd been dating about 2 months. We've been married more than 20 years now, and she's even more accepting than she was before we got married. I know I am not alone here.

To the overall point; how many women are truly accepting? Not many. It's a question of what level of acceptance do you need to be happy. Not want, but need.

[Suzie Petersen]

1. In her experience working with couples with crossdressing, at first SOME women can accept it, for a while, but then ultimately they don't.


That's an empty statement without knowing what her experience base is. I find that comment to be untrue, in fact VERY untrue with a number of known posters here, including me. My wife knew about my crossdressing after we'd been dating about 2 months. We've been married more than 20 years now, and she's even more accepting than she was before we got married. I know I am not alone here.

No Julie, I know you are not alone in having that very enviable situation. Good for you and those in the same situation.
However, the comment from Beano's therapist is VERY true for some others of us "known" posters here, including me!

I told my wife about this side of me a few weeks into dating. She was fine with it. In the beginning she would buy me clothes and other little surprises now and then like makeup etc. She wasn't thrilled about it, but she was OK with it.
When we had kids she started to worry about it a little. When the kids got a little older she changed from accepting to tolerating. Later on that changed again from tolerating to absolutely hating even the thought of it. Some years ago, 10 or so, that changed to total denial and threats of self harm.
We have been married for 40 years now, together for 45.

So for me, the statement is absolutely correct and not at all "empty", and .. I also know I am not alone here.

- Suzie

[Diane P]

Suzie I'm sorry to hear that things have gone from good to bad for you. I take it you have to leave the house to be able to dress, if you can dress at all. I under dressed for 20 years during my second marriage.

My wife "might" have been accepting of it since she was very accepting of a friend transitioning from male to female, but of course that was a friend and not someone she lived with every day. My under dressing only turned into full blown crossdressing two months after she passed in July. I don't think it was areaction to her passing, I think it was my feminine side finally deciding it was time to introduce herself.

If I get involved with someone else it will only be fair for me to let them know about my crossdressing early on. Having only recently begun complete crossdressing I want to be able to continue to be true to myself. The genie is out of the bottle and I don't want to have to put it back.

[JulieC]

Suzie obviously I can't deny your situation. It's your reality (and I wish for you that it wasn't). I just had a hard time accepting this therapist's absolutism on the subject. My own experience denies it. That's why I'd want to see actual numbers to back that up.

[GretchenM]

About 20 years ago there was a study done on the happiness of the woman in marriages to men who ranged from strong masculine to strong feminine with regard to their behaviors. They found that women who were married to more female-like men were happier in their marriage and the women with strong masculine mates and were strong feminine themselves were the least happy. What they identified was a bit of spectrum in marital relationship patterns. (I have the study printed out, but I am not sure if I have an emailable copy that was downloaded - I would have to check in my big archives of older publications.)

Unfortunately, the study did not examine relationships where the husband showed signs of being transgender in the way of dressing as a woman or engaging in other similar behaviors. But from the data it was clear that women were happier with men who were "somewhat more like themselves." That seems to be a sensible conclusion and the data supported that conclusion.

I suspect the CD/TG factor was not included because it is not common and does not actually fit well with the parameters of the study. For many the CD/TG aspect may be a step too far. Thus if they have a positive happiness with a more female-like male and the relationship goes to the next step they may be willing to give it a try only to find out that is not comfortable for them and so they pull back. A situation of some femininity is great but a lot is not.

However, social relations have changed tremendously in the last 20 years and so the conclusions of this study may not be as valid as they were back then. It is still a good general indicator. But from this study and from the limited sample available on this forum, it appears that acceptance is definitely the exception except perhaps on the short term to give it a try. I suspect how the gender reversal is configured and presented in a huge factor. If it is forced on the wife then the rejection could be due to the perception that being "forced" to do something has a bit of a strong masculine character to it. That, to them, may appear to be a contradiction to the feminine male character and it is rejected once the modern women see that aspect at work. So it comes down to the dynamics of the relationship between the man and the woman in each marital structure. Some find it acceptable; others do not. The devil may be in the details of the specific situation.

[ShawnaL]

I realize that I am blessed to have a wife who is accepting (for the most part) of my coming to the realization that I am a transwoman. With that said, we didn't arrive to where we are today without hours of talking, hours of NOT talking, anger, tears, (on both sides) more talking, resignation rather than true acceptance, counseling, limited acceptance, broader acceptance, (where she shopped for me, and complimented me on my fashion and makeup sense), and finally where we are today...general overall acceptance and a solid marital relationship. AGAIN, that's not the end of the story. My wife accepts me for who I am at home and when it's just the two of us or when we're with immediate family. While she's happy to go shopping, go to the movies or out to dinner together, she still hasn't reached a level of comfort to socialize together in a broader setting as a two-women couple. She also asked that I stop HRT (which I've done at this point). I am absolutely convinced that the reason our relationship works is that we have a very true love for each other. By this I mean that both of us cares more about the other than ourselves. It may sound corny or unbelievable - but I assure you that it's true. And, in the final analysis, that's why ANY marital or close relationship works. Gretchen mentioned identifying compromises - and making sure that they're kept...that has also been a big part of why out relationship works. If we promise the other person something, we honor it. I don't mean to say that if a wife cannot accept her husband's need to cross dress or in the more extreme situation, the need to transition to her true life, that there's no love there - because that's NOT the case at all. But it DOES take a very powerful and outgoing love and understanding to accept a complete change in a person, as most would see it in who we are. My wish is that everyone on this forum finds that kind of love from the person they want to be with.

[sometimes_miss]

I worked with a very good therapist for many years who specializes in this area. She said some things that have stuck with me. 1. In her experience working with couples with crossdressing, at first SOME women can accept it, for a while, but then ultimately they don't.
That was my experience, too. Same response from our therapist. Some interesting percentages; each group was about half the previous one:
During my research, several sources had similar findings.
Only about 6% of all women felt that it was okay for men to crossdress, but they wouldn't want to be involved with any of them in any way. In other words, okay for the rest of the world, but 'Not In My Back Yard'.
About 3% were okay with men who crossdress, and would accept a male relative or friend who did, but wouldn't want to date or marry a crossdresser.
About 1.5% said that they would be willing to date a crossdressing male.
When couples in that last group wound up coming in for therapy, half of them wound up splitting up or getting divorced. The women who initially thought that they could handle it, changed their minds, and wanted out of the relationship. That leaves about 0.75% of women who might be accepting enough to be willing to accept us long term. But it doesn't indicate how many would actually want to be involved with her man, crossdressing. Even here, the truly enthusiastic spouses are pretty rare. So you'd be more likely to win the lottery, than find one. By random chance, you would have to date over 100 women to find ONE that might be okay with your being a crossdresser. And then, of course, you have to deal with all the other compatibility issues. So the odds are pretty abysmal.


To the overall point; how many women are truly accepting? Not many.
Plus, acceptance doesn't mean attraction. Natural attraction for women towards men doesn't include being sexually turned on by a feminine male. I'm a nurse, and have known many gay and bi women over the years. The bi women have all been of the 'attracted to masculine men, and feminine women' types. I'm not saying that there aren't any bi women who are attracted to fem men, just that I've never met one in my 50 years of working with women.
Now, times have changed a bit, but I don't think that what intrinsically turns most women on, has changed much at all. For a very, very few, maybe. But the vast population? Nope. And that's what we're up against.
I got divorced 25 years ago, and have been studying the crossdresser dating problem ever since. I don't want to make this many pages long, so I will PM you with more info if you want.

[JulieC]

Hrmf.

Ok so this is entirely anecdotal, as I am a sample size of 1. However, I've dated 5 women who have known about my crossdressing. (A) didn't know about it until long after we had broken up, but has unequivocally stated she would have married me had she known (I told her long after we stopped dating). (B) was confused and questioning at first, but soon became accepting. I can't be certain she would have married me despite it, but I have strong reason to believe she would have. She kept at our relationship even after I made it clear I wasn't in it for the long haul. She wanted more than I could give. (C) was outright rejectful, to the point of mocking me for it. Her actions informed future decisions about who I would accept as a wife. (D) was a pretty short relationship, but crossdressing actively turned her on. She was bisexual and said it felt like she was getting the best of both worlds. (E) was the one I married, and we've been married for over 20 years now.

So out of five, just one that was rejectful. Maybe 3 of the 4 that were accepting might have changed to not accepting over time. But, my wife hasn't become unaccepting. I put this question to her yesterday, and she said she feels she's more accepting than she was at first. Everyone's mileage may vary. I doubt the stats from this one case of 80% of women accepting to some degree or better would hold up.

[Fiona_44]

1. Take your time and become more comfortable with yourself and your dressing first.
2. Tell someone you may be very attracted to about your CD'ing early on.
3. Who knows what will happen in the future so don't worry about it. Just take life as it comes and try and make your daily life as enjoyable as possible.

[Beano980]

Thank you all for your thoughtful and kind responses. I've been a "lurker" on this form for many years and it has been very helpful. I will of course take things slow and I'll update the group on my experiences as I move forward. Thank you all again, I am touched by your responses.

Also, I like Brooke far better than Beano!

[Maid_Marion]

Some things change and some don't. I see more opportunities because I'm really short, and most women just won't date short guys.
Keeping secrets is a huge relationship killer. Another is low social status.

What can you offer in a relationship? Confidence is often seen as a plus but I think competence is even more important. Someone has to get stuff done.
Dressing well for social situations is a way to show competence. Most GGs know exactly how much clothes cost.

Marion