Rant: People Calling Me "Sir"

[Jamie001]

How can I get people to stop calling me "Sir"? I am gclearly ender non conforming and being addressed as "Sir" makes me angry for 2 reasons:

1. My gender is ambiguous (I am wearing a skirt, nail polish, and earrings)

2. The word "Sir" has advanced age connotations that I do not appreciate. When growing up, I was told to call the elderly "Sir or Ma'am".

I usually correct people immediately upon the first infraction and explain that I'm gender non-conforming or I just do not respond to being addressed in that manner.

Why do store clerks need to say "thank you Sir"? Why can't they just look you in the eye and say "thank you have a nice day" or something similar.

Why in the hell do people need to acknowledge their perception of my gender when addressing me?

How do I make it stop?

[docrobbysherry]

Jamie, you've been here longer than I. So, you're no teenager! :heehee:

I think you're being over sensitive. U need to look in a mirror before u go out. Then, remember that is what everyone is going to see.:daydreaming:

If you're dressed androgenous why r u upset when people see a man? Heck, when I go out I try to be as fem as possible. And I still get "Sir-ed" occasionally. But, I realize I'm a MIAD so it doesn't bother me. If servers and SA's r polite and helpful why should it? They're doing the best they can. And, I have a mirror!:doh:

[char GG]

It may be a regional thing. Where I live, people don't say "sir" or "mam", they usually skip that part and just say, "have a nice day".

You really can't control how other people react. You can only control how you react to them.

[Sandi Beech]

It does not bother me. Either pronoun is fine by me as a crossdresser, but I do very much appreciate it when people take notice how I am presenting and address me appropriately.

One thing I have noticed by spending a lot of time clubbing last year, young women in particular have outright asked me what pronouns I like to use right up front when they meet me. So there does seem to be more awareness overall as to trying to address people as they wish.

I am afraid there will always be those exceptions. I think I used to be more offended by grocery baggers who mammed me when I was clearly a man. Sometimes it goes the other way.

Sandi

[Aka_Donna]

Those who so are primarily a) from military background, b) from an ethnic group, or c) from a pre-Vietnam Era generation. It has nothing to do with gender. It much more a rank or class greeting. Short answer: get over it... pick your fights, this one is not worth any effort.

[JohnH]

Even though I prefer to be sir'ed, if I am ma'amed it doesn't bother me as long as I'm not called "Maggot".

[OrdinaryAverageGuy]

Most people who see a man wearing a skirt do not see "ambiguous", they see a man in a skirt. Clerks, servers, cops, anyone who deals with the public is supposed to be polite, and most will call people "sir" or "ma'am", depending on which they think is more appropriate. They also have no way of knowing who might be offended by what, so they stick with what they can figure out. You apparently look more like a guy than a gal, even in a skirt.

If you were to hold the door open for me at the gas station I'd say "Thank you sir", out of politeness and out of respect that even though you're wearing a skirt I still see you as a man. This wouldn't change if you're a teenager or a hundred years old, age has nothing to do with it.

If this is your biggest problem you have a pretty sweet life.

[Helen_Highwater]

Look at it from their prospective. You could be someone dressing to make a fashion statement. You say you're wearing a skirt, nail polish and earrings but it seems no makeup, wig, forms, heels, or any of the other items that would push your gender identity more towards the female.

And, as you yourself point out, you're dressing is ambiguous so if you don't look like you're obviously seeking to look female then the SA's have to go with what they see.

If you're out fully dressed, all the female trappings on display and then you're misgendered, that's the time to politely ask if they would do you the kindness of in future using the female pronoun.

[Maid_Marion]

Perhaps your appearance isn't as ambiguous as you think it is.
If it were, you would have a 50/50 split between male and female pronouns.
Perhaps you need a more feminine presentation to be ambiguous.
Most folks will assign gender without thinking about it.

I was just at a doctor's office and filled out a form that requested preferred gender.
Just before I was given the form I was called "girl," which has no elderly connotations!
She was surprised I had figured out the web site and uploaded my documents, saving her the trouble. I told her I liked solving puzzles.

Twenty years ago I routinely got both male and female pronouns.
Now they are mostly female. The male ones are signs of respect.
Not being able to tell the difference between aggression and respect may be a sign of Aspergers.
The Sheldon character on The Big Bang Theory was written to have a super high IQ yet he couldn't make social distinctions like that.

Marion

[alwayshave]

Jamie, Are you perhaps living somewhere where less educated people are fighting back against pronouns?

[GretchenM]

If you are dressed ambiguously then they perceive you as being ambiguous. That is, they can't easily tell what your gender is. So they default to referring to you with respect to your sex. It is a fine example of how gender and sex overlap in some ways. And in a society where gender is mostly viewed as a binary going by the default is pretty natural. If a person is unsure of the person's gender and the pronouns they prefer then going with the default can be troubling if it is different from your self-perception. It would be better to say something that does not carry a sex or gender aspect. On that count you are correct. That would be the most proper concept to follow.

How do you make it stop? Be less ambiguous in your appearance. But, I am like you in terms of gender and am a blend in my dressing most of the time. Plus being nearly 80 it becomes a double factor - "Sir" by age and "Sir" as a safe expression based on my apparent sex.

And geography matters as well as the prevailing political affiliations - we live in a country that is highly divided and opinionated and people tend to respond accordingly.

[abby054]

A wise boss that I worked for when I was a teenager told me the following allegory. Each of us goes through life carrying a bag of swords. Each sword represents a principle that is important in our lives. Some are great big, hefty swords that no one can ignore. Some are smaller swords, no less deadly but not as big in our worlds. All are sharp and shiny. At some point, our personal integrity demands that a principle is important enough to pay the price of falling on our sword. When that time comes, my boss told me, make sure that the sword you fall on is a big one.

He told me never discourage someone who is trying to be polite even if they fail. You may teach them that it is easier to be impolite or worse.

You object to the advanced age connotations of Sir. I find under my hat a head full of white hair if indeed any hair at all, yet I know for certain how briefly ago I was less than a meter tall and many called me Son, not Sir. I go to a gathering of my friends and all these old people show up with their names. Perhaps like me, more days have found you, my friend, than you realize.

[Sometimes Steffi]

I agree with the others; get over it. If you are in full femme, it might be a "micro-aggression. In adrogenous mode, probably more confusion. Saying Sir might seem to be less offensive than Ma'am.

Some other thoughts.



young women in particular have outright asked me what pronouns I like to use right up front when they meet me.

Me too, even when I was in full mail mode, but shopping for women's clothes.

It may be a regional thing. Where I live, people don't say "sir" or "mam", they usually skip that part and just say, "have a nice day".

In the South, I was routinely addressed as "Honey" by women, without a stitch of femme clothing or makeup. I wasn't even underdressing.

Those who so are primarily a) from military background, b) from an ethnic group, or c) from a pre-Vietnam Era generation. It has nothing to do with gender. It much more a rank or class greeting.

I am in the pre-Vietnam generation. It was an insult to not call adults either Sir, Ma'am, Mr. or Mrs. as appropriate. Ms. or Mx. did not exist as words.

When I got older, I used to use the terms son or boy, until I discovered that those word were "fighting words" of disrespect to some ethnic groups.

[Aunt Kelly]

Ignorance abounds. I am routinely misgendered at the drive through. Harly surprising, given my voice, but occasional embarrassed realization at the window, when they realize they've misgendered a customer, is worth all the other times, and then some.

Still, let's face it, voice is a primary cue for the gender of someone we're interacting with, even in a face to face conversation. If it's an innocent mistake, I will usually make a polite correction. If it's malicious (and it's almost always easy to tell), I will make a less polite correction, and if that doesn't change behavior, I will ask to speak to a supervisor. That's rarely necessary, but that's how I handle it.

[BrendaPDX]

Hi Jamie, I can understand your frustration, especially if you are presenting as female. I am in the Pacific Northwest and most all people I run across are very perceptive and respectful of others. I am not sure how you can make it stop, maybe only patronize establishments that respect you and address you in the manner you wish.

[Stephanie47]

As a plain vanilla cross dresser, if I am wearing the clothing usually associated with women, that really doesn't confer anything about my sexual orientation or gender identity. If I do not pass, and never will, the person is perhaps making a comment based on his or her perception of birth sex. In my neck of the woods I never encounter anyone using sir or madam. I would suspect, if a person is not accepting of transpersons he or she maybe making a point of non-acceptance by intentionally using a pronoun associated with sex at birth.

[Shelly Preston]

I once had a similar situation.

It did not bother me too much but I did complain.

I was offered vouchers as an apology.

I accepted the apology but I refused the vouchers.

All I asked was, that they educate the staff to reduce the chances of this happening to anyone else.

[Natalie5004]

My wife and I went out to a dinner at a local place here and we got "Welcome ladies, please pick any table". I was in full male mode but my blondish dyed hair was past my shoulders then.

It is all cut off now and it is grey and I miss my long hair terribly. My wife though is very happy with me.

Greetings can go any way, who cares? Trust me, they feel bad too.

[Jamie001]

Thanks for all the replies. The point that I?m trying to make is that the words sir and ma?am serve no purpose other than to gender pigeonhole a person. When serving the public, I can be very friendly, cordial, and respectful toward my customers without using these unnecessary that only serve to gender a person. Then there is the age connotation that just screams ?elderly?. Hopefully one day society will realize that these honorific gendering titles server no purpose. For example, thank you have a nice day is just as effective as thank you have a nice day sir without gender pigeonholing the person.

[Linda Stockings]

My military friends tell me that sir has become a gender neutral term, but is still a show of respect. Calling a female superior officer sir is considered a proper way of addressing them with respect. Alternatively, one can call them by their rank. The return sign of respect for the officer would be to address the enlisted person by their rank.

I respect your opinion that society in general may be behind in their knowledge of when and when not to use those terms.

[GaleWarning]

There is a whole lot of information missing from your post.
1. Where are the store clerks when they misgender you? It may be that they cannot see your skirt, only your face.
2. If the store is busy, a store clerk may simply be too busy processing clients as quickly as possible, to take the time to notice your clothing.
3. What tone of voice do they use when uttering the word, "Sir"? If it is respectful, or simply polite, I do not see the need to get upset about it, if it is not derogatory or condescending.
4. You claim to be gender non-conforming, ie neither male nor female. Why insist on being gendered as female?

Methinks thou dost protest too much!

[Jamie001]

There is a whole lot of information missing from your post.
4. You claim to be gender non-conforming, ie neither male nor female. Why insist on being gendered as female?

Methinks thou dost protest too much!

I don't want to be gendered period.

[GaleWarning]

Fair enough, Jamie. Tell me this, though ... how is a store clerk supposed to know how to address you? Are you going to wear a sign around your neck saying, I am Jamie?
Actually, when I wear a name badge in the opshop, most people refer to me by the name on the badge.
Perhaps this would help?

[docrobbysherry]

I think the sign should say , "Call me, "they" or "it", Gale. :straightface:

[Aka_Donna]

Two more additional thoughts. 1_ Have you considered your bearings? I was extremely often called "sir" because my posture and mannerisms were military. 2_ What is worst than being called "sir"? How about not being called anything and just ignored as you don't exist. Just saying some communication intented to be a positive event for you is much much better than being ignored or shunned.

Really don't want to be called a gender? Don't play the victim game it's just a huge rat hole. You'll never never win. Oh, you may gain notarity and name reconnection but your negatives and "I despise you" ratings will soar thru the roof. careful, careful what you ask for.

[Genifer Teal]

I often wondered why it's still customary to guess and announce a person's gender out loud in order to be polite have a nice day verse have. A nice day sir or ma'am in today's gender confused society. It would make so much more sense to just leave off the gender. It doesn't sound any less formal to me.
And it's certainly a lot less formal if you're wrong.

[CDMargret]

Round my neck of the woods (Michigan, Indiana) I never hear pronouns. Just have a day. I have only been to one club dressed with the same experiences. Really the only place I can go dressed. Still working on the comfort level of going to other places dressed.

[Krisi]

I think you need to get over this. People call you "sir" as a sign of respect. It's normal, especially in more polite parts of the country. You will not change society, you have to either accept it or avoid it.

And people certainly don't want to hear about your "gender-non-conforming" thoughts. Don't try to correct them or explain things to them. They do not care. You are only making them mad and making them think you are some sort of nut case.

[Cheryl T]

Sir is not age related. It is a show of respect.

[Jamie001]

Fair enough, Jamie. Tell me this, though ... how is a store clerk supposed to know how to address you? Are you going to wear a sign around your neck saying, I am Jamie?
Actually, when I wear a name badge in the opshop, most people refer to me by the name on the badge.
Perhaps this would help?

Addressing me is simple. Walk up to me, get my attention, look me in the eye, and say "hello can I help you?". It as simple as that with NO chance of misgendering.

- - - Updated - - -


I often wondered why it's still customary to guess and announce a person's gender out loud in order to be polite have a nice day verse have. A nice day sir or ma'am in today's gender confused society. It would make so much more sense to just leave off the gender. It doesn't sound any less formal to me.
And it's certainly a lot less formal if you're wrong.

Thank you Genifer!! You are reading my mind and hit the painted nail on the head with your response. :hugs:

- - - Updated - - -


I think you need to get over this. People call you "sir" as a sign of respect. It's normal, especially in more polite parts of the country. You will not change society, you have to either accept it or avoid it.

And people certainly don't want to hear about your "gender-non-conforming" thoughts. Don't try to correct them or explain things to them. They do not care. You are only making them mad and making them think you are some sort of nut case.

I disagree with this response! People need to learn to respect gender nonconforming people. Sir/Maam are dated terms. Google "don't call me sir or ma'am" and be educated. Another dated expression that needs to be eliminated is "ladies and gentlemen". Disney and several major airlines have already banned "ladies and gentlemen".

- - - Updated - - -


Sir is not age related. It is a show of respect.

It is disrespectful to gender nonconforming people and simply announces the person's perceived gender which may be incorrect.

[OrdinaryAverageGuy]

"Sir" and "Ma'am" are only disrespectful or offensive to people who have decided that they want to be offended or like to claim they've been disrespected. I've been called both terms while wearing men's clothes, and I use both terms myself to others as a sign of respect, using my best judgement on which is more appropriate. And one of those terms is ALWAYS appropriate. If someone were to call me out for using the wrong one, which has never happened, I'd apologize and use the other one, and get on with life. Just like the cop did after calling me "ma'am". (I laughed, BTW, so much healthier than being offended.)

You can pretend you're a potted plant for all I care, but you are either a "sir" or a "ma'am" just the same.

Bottom line, you have the right to be offended by anyone or anything you choose, that's your choice, but you don't have the right to never be offended.

I was really hoping this ridiculous thread would have been deleted by now.

[Jamie001]

There is nothing wrong with this thread. The problem is that most crossdressers on this site believe in binary gender. They are either male mode or female mode. They don?t subscribe to the concept of a gender continuum or a non-binary gender identity. I stayed away from this site for many years because I felt rejected as a feminine male that does not support a gender binary of male mode or female mode. It seems that there are still many members here the subscribe to the binary gender concept. The only person that understood my feelings on this thread is Genifer Teal while everyone else either couldn?t relate or missed the point completely. There has got to be a place for non-binary folks such as myself and I?m beginning to thins that this isn?t it.

[Rhonda Jean]

Reminds me of the "sir" rant at the Gamestop that was all over the internet a while back.

Back when I was all about passing, whether I got sir or maam was kind of a pass/fail for how well I passed. It was (maybe still is) all about perceived gender. There have been a few time I was called sir just so the person could make sure I knew they knew. It didn't feel good, but it didn't feel good because I knew that I didn't even come close enough to passing that they'd even hesitate about calling me sir. I still remember the first time it happened. When I left the house I thought I looked like I just stepped off the cover of some fashion magazine, then the first place I stopped I got "sir". I knew I had to figure out how they knew, and I knew I had to do better. I didn't get mad about it.

Now it's much more common for me to go out in some kind of in-between, kind of like you except I don't wear skirts. I frequently get "sir", I never get "maam". I know full well I look like a guy. Leggings, mules, oversize top of some kind, nail polish, sometimes a little mascara and light makeup, carrying a purse. I'm making no attempt to look like a woman. The more thoughtful people refer to me as "hun" or "sweetie". Yesterday for the first time I can remember I got "love", which was pretty cool. It's pretty hard to offend me. I certainly am not going to be offended if I think someone is trying to offend me. That'd just mean they got what they wanted.

Funny, I remember another side of this gendered-reference thing. I used to get "maam-ed" pretty often in male mode, mostly because of my hair. Before I realized things were deteriorating in our marriage I can remember a couple of times being in male mode and out with my wife when a server or a sales associate referred to us as ladies, as in, "What can I get you ladies today?". Innocent enough, but my wife's take on it was, "Does she think I'm a lesbian?!!" or " I get so tired of people thinking I'm a lesbian!" Quite a stretch. Just looking for something to get mad about, it seemed to me.

Another. I was at a fast food restaurant in line behind two women, one of them with a child who was 3 or 4 with mid-back length hair that someone had obviously spent some time styling. The lady at the counter said, "Oh my gosh, she is so pretty!" To which the mother said, "He's a boy." and went on a mild rant about how everyone assumes he's a girl. I ended up sitting at a booth beside them, and the rant continued on how she didn't understand why everybody assumes he's a girl. The child was wearing shorts and a t-shirt, earrings, and had this long gorgeous hair. He looked like a girl. Looked to me like she wanted him to look like a girl, yet she at least feigned being offended when somebody thought that's what he was.

[TAG]

Jamie, Are you perhaps living somewhere where less educated people are fighting back against pronouns?

Education has nothing to do with it. Some people don't play the pronoun game and never will.
As far as people calling you sir maybe you appear more male than female.
Don't get mad at people for misgendering you because it will happen. Just because you have a skirt or ladies clothes on and make up really makes no difference, if people see a man they will call you sir.
Maybe you need to not be so sensitive about it.

[Wendy me]

Without seeing you this question can?t be answered without knowing more like do you have a full beard? Do you wear a skirt without any outher fem attire ? Do you have breasts or use something to give that look? Do you try to sound feminine when you speak?

If you or anyone go out as a guy in a dress or this case a skirt and are all male persons might identify you as a male and address you as such

If it bothers you then correct them when they say sir you say it?s mam or madam or women

Hopefully you can sort this out

[docrobbysherry]

Jamie, it isn't that no one here understands your feelings. I'm pretty sure if u want us to call u, "us", "they", or "it", we would.:thumbsup:
Just change your name to your chosen pronoun!:)

But, u seem to expect every stranger that meets u to refer to u that way. And, that's not going to happen in most of our life times! We also live in America. A binary country that in many places is increasingly unfriendly to non binary folks. :thumbsdn:

It isn't that I don't support u. I just feel your attitude is dooming u to disappointment!:sad:

[TAG]

I agree with Sherry.
Expecting or demanding people to use the proper pronoun when they really don't understand the whole pronoun thing.
I know I am confused by it myself.
I have been "out" and living as a female 24/7 for a long time. Even with HRT there are some "male markers" that people will catch and misgender me.

[Rachelakld]

Remember - it is "US" who decides what can and can't offend us.

I'm 57 now, been called lots of things at school, been "sir'd" so often lost count, but after all that, still have not yet been offended
I once offended someone by "looking at them", they wouldn't have known that I was looking at them, if they we not looking at me.

In short, you can only be offended by what "you chose" to be offended by.

[GaleWarning]

There is nothing wrong with this thread. The problem is that most crossdressers on this site believe in binary gender. They are either male mode or female mode. They don?t subscribe to the concept of a gender continuum or a non-binary gender identity. I stayed away from this site for many years because I felt rejected as a feminine male that does not support a gender binary of male mode or female mode. It seems that there are still many members here the subscribe to the binary gender concept. The only person that understood my feelings on this thread is Genifer Teal while everyone else either couldn?t relate or missed the point completely. There has got to be a place for non-binary folks such as myself and I?m beginning to thins that this isn?t it.

I certainly can accept that you are a feminine male. What I struggle to understand is a) how you can expect someone who does not know you to use an acceptable for of address and b) why you choose to be offended when someone who is trying to respectful and helpful gets your preferred form of address wrong.

Should you choose to get miffed and stay away, please do not blame us. We are trying to suggest to you that perhaps you need to have a rethink and do something to help unsuspecting store clerks.

Don't complain about the problem; actively look for an acceptable solution. It's your problem, not theirs.

[Freddi]

Think its an area or even country thing. Here in the UK....one area will call you Duck....another Darlin...where I grew up its Mate....regardless of gender...my wife is also my mate. No offence is intended by it and I'm sorry to say if any is taken then its the receivers own take on it. Life is far less stressful if we take a more relaxed view on how folks respond to us

[DanielleDubois]

Unless you are wearing a sign that says "I'm gender non-conforming, please do not address me as sir or ma'am" I don't think you can expect people to be psychic about how they should address you and also should not assume it is due to some non-binary prejudice.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Appearently they are still seeing a Man in a Dress there,

[BobbiKay]

As a person of a Certain Age, my lifelong habit of Sir or Ma'am as titles of respect is hard to break. They still slip out. Alternatives don't abound.

When I lived in Baltimore it was common to address someone of the opposite gender, or woman-to-woman, as "Hon". But it was not common from one (straight) guy to another.

One coworker seemed to have trouble recalling names, so he tended to address folks as "my friend".

In addressing a group, "Folks" works for me, and carries no gender implications, unlike "guys". And it's easier to say than "fellas and gals, and non-binary pals".

I would suggest to OP get over it. It's probably not meant maliciously. And even if it is, why make a scene?

[April Rose]

I have a friend who is a a fully out transwoman, but who still has some masculine features, who has a policy of introducing herself to strangers, with "Hi, I'm Mary" .
(Not her real name.) She does this even when it's not really necessary, like with waiters and checkout people.

She is a very self confident and practical woman who says she is not overly concerned with pronouns, but she likes people, wants them to feel comfortable, and doesn't mind helping them along.

She has done this when I was with her, and it does seem to work for her.

[Princess Chantal]

I think the sign should say , "Call me, "they" or "it", Gale. :straightface:

It? Oh my someone calls me or any other person that would deserve an arse whooping!

[MonicaPVD]

There are two three types of people in our world. First, polite folks who will address us as we present. Second, people who are on another planet and might call Jennifer Lopez Sir simply because they don't pay attention to anything. Finally, there are the culture warriors who want to prove a point by reminding us that we are not cis women. I let all that go a long time ago. I know what I am and what I look like.

[Roxxxi]

I'm sorry but I think that getting upset for those kind of things is pointless.

You don't have control over other people's perception, if the person is polite enough to call you sir or ma'am or whatever it's fine. You probably won't be seeing that person ever again, and if you do and that person is decent enough then he/she will probably address you as you asked him/her to do the next time you see him/her.

[Diane P]

On the flip side of that, when I was an air traffic controller, in the Air Force, there were lots of times when I would give a pilot an instruction and get a response ending in "Ma'am". Of course I'd immediately correct them. I've had the same thing happen on the phone when either I call a business or one calls me. Of course I immediately correct them also.

[ShelbyDawn]

A therapist once told me that my mother's opinion of me was none of my business.

I think that fits here.

So many people today are so wrapped up in pronouns and whatever a microaggression is, what other people might or might not be calling them, and why. Who cares what someone else calls you. That is their garbage, their burden to carry. You don't have to pick it up.

Why choose something so insignificant to get offended by. Getting offended is a choice, after all.
If you're out and about enjoying your day in a cute outfit, why let something like this ruin it for you?
Like I said, It's their garbage, Why pick it up?

They have no idea what you want to be called.
In most cases, they probably don't even think about it. They're response it automatic. In others, it's just the best choice their brain can make given the input.

We are outliers, a small percentage of the population. Our plight is very real, it's just not something most people deal with every day.
They don't know us or our backgrounds. They don't know the hours, days, months, years, we've spent dealing with this. They, like us, are just trying to get through their day.

I'm not defending someone that would intentionally go out of their way to make a scene, and I do understand the frustration. I've been dealing with this for sixty years now.

I just try to choose an option other than being offended. We have complete control over our expectations and our reactions, after all.

My father once told me; 'It's not wise to credit malice with the work of ignorance.' If I assume it's ignorance, even if I'm wrong, it's not a burden I have to carry.

Yeah, it took me close to ten years in therapy to get here, but it was worth it.

Good luck, and god bless.

[TAG]

A pic of you in your outfit would be a huge help. That way we have proper context to help you.
Keep in mind be nice and not confrontational about their lack of experience with non binary people.
A few weeks back I saw a young trans girl throw a hissy fit because she was misgendered.
She got very loud and aggressive which is not the way to handle things.
She was one of those trans activist types that revel in causing trouble.

[christine55]

If you are obviously presenting as female you are being insulted when called "sir".

[GaleWarning]

Christine, I have reread the thread, and nowhere does Jamie indicate how they (see how polite I am?) was dressed when the incident occurred. They were asked to share with us a photograph showing how they were dressed; they have failed to do so. So, although they has not provided sufficient evidence to make an unequivocal opinion, their whole demeanor screams 'entitlement'.

Were they disrespected by the store clerk? I don't believe so, not intentionally. And I don't believe Jamie is prepared to own the problem.

[Shelly Preston]

Moderator note

No one should be asked to provide picture.

Please remember this section is public and not everyone is comfortable sharing pictures.

[closets]

Op said they were gender non confirming, but I doubt the public care or know about non binary. And so they will use pronouns that they are familiar with, and correlate with biological sex.

[DianeT]

Everybody nowadays seems to be offended by one thing or another. To be honest, I don't intend to read the manual of every person I meet before interacting with her. Society has established standards about how to interact in a polite way and I try to stick to them. If you are not happy with the current standards which involve gendering people, then make them evolve, but don't chastise the (rare and kind) persons trying to be polite with you according to said standards. If needed, you can correct them gently.
One may also observe that what you consider offending (the gendering) maybe considered totally legit by others who could be offended in turn if you didn't (gender them), that is, until the social standard evolves.

[franlee]

All this is subjective reasoning for your ideology. Simply put you have a problem, not the world.

[Sallee]

I won't take it personal at all. I was a support group one evening several yrs ago having a nice chat with one of the other girls there and we all were dressed quite fem, dresses makeup ready to present as the women we were pretending to be. Most of us and I'll include myself, passed for the most part. As the two of us parted I said something to the effect of "Well, thats great SIR." I was terribly embarred for my faux pas and apologized. It was a mistake on my part but it was just habit I guess. She sure didn't look like a sir, if she had been a GG would I have said the same? IDK. I think it is just something that we're programmed to do. Hopefully we get the preferred gender correct but it seems to me that our good upbring kicks in and we give a pleasant polite salutation without thinking.
Don't take it personal!

[Karmen]

I don't understand why all the fuss about how other people call you when you are crossdressed and can't pass, as long it is polite expression. I was called madam many times over the years when I was crossdressed in public, but I could clearly noticed in other person's voice, that "madam" was basically a ridicule on my appearance, not politeness. No matter how i dress or what i would like to be, I am still a man in a dress, so "sir" is still a polite expression even when I'm wearing a wig, skirt and heels.

Take other examples, for instance. How you should call a tomboy for example? Sir or madam? Same goes for men dressed feminine? Maybe he wants to present himself as a woman too, but he is not brave enough to wear skirt in public. Should he feel insulted when called sir too?

[Maid_Marion]

Yes, it hard wired. I was talking to a mom who loves her girl but told me she has trouble with her pronouns.
I've seen her daughter on my Facebook feed.

It may tell you if you pass or not. If you pass you can expect a few ma'ams to slip out now and then.
If you never get ma'am well, we know what that means.

Marion

[Jamie001]

I want to thank everyone for replying to this thread. I will learn to take it less personally. Hopefully one day in the future, gendered reference will go away as they serve no purpose and there will be a non-gendered polite term to replace "sir/maam" which does nothing but to announce a person's perceived gender.

[Raychel]

Sorry you had the feeling of anger for being called sir.

People can be confused about the proper words to use in these occasions.
I can certainly see where this would be an issue.
Even on the phone with some people, they may have a true male voice,
Do you call them by the fem name or the male name.

personally I am happy with anyone addressing me ion any welcoming fashion.
I never go out dressed so that would not likely be an issue for me. But if I did go out.
I would still be happy with any welcome words. No matter what they where.
I certainly would not be trying to be a woman or trying to fool anyone to think I was.
Just be happy with the encounter and have a good time.
Just my thoughts anyways.

[Jamie001]

Rachel,

Excellent thoughts and recommendations. Thank you.

:hugs: Jamie

[Maid_Marion]

I have a male name and a very feminine voice.
I had speech therapy to modulate my voice as part of my stroke recovery. Before that I had a very monotone voice but would speak every word clearly. I'm smaller that the average woman so my pitch is high.
After therapy I had all the elements for a very feminine voice.

Guess what? It confuses the heck out of telemarketers! Seems they need to know who they are scamming. If they don't have a clue they get thrown for a loop!

Marion

[Ressie]

1st, don't take anything personally. It doesn't have anything to do with you. People are just the way they are to everyone.

2nd, don't expect anything from anyone or anything period. The more you expect, the more you will feel let down. This is a problem with most people and it's a hard habit to break. Just remind yourself every time you don't get what you expected - my expectations were too high, don't expect anything. And absolutely, don't expect others to think like you do. Your thoughts are your own.

[Rhonda Jean]

I want to thank everyone for replying to this thread. I will learn to take it less personally. Hopefully one day in the future, gendered reference will go away as they serve no purpose and there will be a non-gendered polite term to replace "sir/maam" which does nothing but to announce a person's perceived gender.

Pretty cool. I don't know that I've ever seen someone post something on here, get negative replies and reprimands, and have the guts and the grace to come back and say "thanks" and "I will learn". I don't know if that's exclusively a feminine thing, but it's a higher level of humanity humanity thing. Much respect!

[Teresa.Smith.VA]

My advice is that you are unlikely to make it stop unless you do something different. Good luck.

[Jamie001]

Thank you Rhonda Jean. :hugs:

[CarlaWestin]

Well, if that's the only thing that's bothering you.........

I was in a guest interaction class and the instructor mentioned not to use regional accents or slang around guests.
Sorry, I have a nice bit of twang and I call women Hon. All with a smile.

You could up your presentation to actually fully pass or put cotton in your ears so you don't have to hear bad words.

[GaleWarning]

Christine, I have reread the thread, and nowhere does Jamie indicate how they (see how polite I am?) was dressed when the incident occurred. They were asked to share with us a photograph showing how they were dressed; they have failed to do so. So, although they has not provided sufficient evidence to make an unequivocal opinion, their whole demeanor screams 'entitlement'.

Were they disrespected by the store clerk? I don't believe so, not intentionally. And I don't believe Jamie is prepared to own the problem.

Well, Jamie, it seems you are prepared to take ownership of the problem. Well done! I hope you manage to come up with a solution which makes both you and the store clerks feel comfortable and respected.

Best wishes,
Gale