I won't be going back to the bar in Tupelo, here's why.....

[Kimberly A.]

Hey y'all! :)

Well, it seems that more people than just Karen at the bar that I was frequenting in Tupelo had a problem with me using the ladies' room. I had made a post on Facebook a while back, (notice I'm NOT posting a link to Facebook), explaining that I'm thinking of quitting CD'ing, (I'm not now) and why. This was one of the replies that I got on that post. I'm posting this verbatim, but omitting some of what this person said, (she's a GG), because she mentions religion.....

"Sorry to say but she is not the only one there that has a problem with it. Many many patrons there have gone to the owner. I was in the restroom one night while you were in the stall next to me. I respect your choice of wanting to be a woman. Although I do not respect a male in the women?s room or a female in the male?s room. I have heard many of the men there say if it happens again with their wives/ girlfriends in there they would take care of it. Please be careful. I am so sorry for what you have been through in life that makes you hurt. Do what you feel you need to in life none of my business. I enjoyed talking with you and you seem like such a sweet gentle person. My boyfriend even bought you a drink with us. It?s really simple?if you have a penis you belong in a men?s restroom?if you have a vagina you should use the ladies room. Just because we choose to dress differently / think differently doesn?t change that no matter how our society tries to twist it. Just please be careful. I have no malice in my heart." - Author will remain nameless here.

This was my reply to her.....

Thank you for that. Honestly, I had no idea that anyone else had a problem with it, no one except for the woman that I mentioned in my OP has said anything to me. Also, I had no idea that anyone had gone to the owner, cause neither he nor any of the other staff have said anything to me about it. Even some of the female bartenders were in the ladies' room while I was in there and they didn't say anything, which is why I figured no one else had problem with it. Also, I had no idea that you were in the stall next to me one time, I don't know who is, I don't really pay attention to that. You're right, I am a sweet and gentle person, one of the nicest people that you will ever meet and I don't intend harm on anyone for any reason. I do wanna say that I'm not gay, I don't identify as being part of the LGBTQ+ community and I don't wanna be a woman full-time. Right now, I'm relaxing in my truck, (I'm a truck driver) on a long break and I'm not cross-dressed. I don't do that while I'm on the road anyway. LOL However, I am not an unreasonable person and I completely understand where you, plus where everyone else is coming from. I was home from being on the road from Monday until Thursday morning and I went to Holland's, as myself, (as in not cross-dressed), because I knew people had an issue with me going to the ladies' room. I went there Tuesday night for karaoke and while I had a good time, it sucked that I wasn't CD'd, but I just don't wanna make anyone uncomfortable and I sure don't wanna end up in the hospital. So of course while I was there Tuesday night, I utilized the men's room when I needed to do my business, cause I SURE won't go into the men's room while CD'd! LOL Of course, the karaoke DJs as well as the bartenders recognized me, so I had to explain to them why I wasn't CD'd. They did say, and I quote: "Forget them and what they think! You do you". And I was just like, "Ok, cool". However, since of course when you sit at a bar and have several drinks, you're gonna need to use the restroom! LOL Even though there is NO law in MS prohibiting men identifying as women from using the ladies' room, I could still get my butt beat for it, if so, it would be assault against me and the ones who would assault me would be the ones going to jail, NOT me..... HOWEVER, with all of this said, y'all will NEVER see Kimberly at that bar ever again. For those who wanted her gone, well, they succeeded and you can tell them that next time you go there and I just might not go there again at all, whether I'm CD'd or not because I wanna find a place where I can hang out at as Kimberly and no one would have a problem with it. I'm glad that you have no malice in your heart, I don't either but obviously, some do. I take it some of the guys there wanted to beat me up either just for being there CD'd because they're haters, or because I was in the women's room with their women, or both. But anyway, I probably won't be going to Holland's again.

So yeah, I'm gonna have to look for a new place to hang out, someplace where I'll be accepted as Kimberly and not have to worry about getting beat up and where I can use the women's facilities without fear of that either.

[Heather76]

That's a shame; but, I do believe you are being prudent with your choice not to return as Kimberly. I hope you find that place that is accepting.

[char GG]

I hope that you find a place that you liked as well as the karaoke bar in Tupelo.

[Krea]

I truly feel sorry for you, because you don't deserve to be treated so unkindly by these haters.
However, if you genuinely feel that you could be in danger, then safety is always priority.
I hope that in the future you can find a new, alternative venue somewhere further afield that you are happy with. Take care!

[CrossKimmy]

Bars are really not a great place to find a lot of acceptance. They can be scary especially when liquor is involved. She is right about being careful. I don?t agree that a presenting female should be forced to use the men?s room because that?s asking for major problems.

[Aunt Kelly]

Fear and ignorance suck. So do businesses who won't stand up for their customers and tell the snowflakes that they're being assholes.
Find someplace that deserves your business.

[BrendaPDX]

Hi Kimberly, Sorry about your bad experience. Hope you find a more accepting place to have a few drinks.

[Helen_Highwater]

" Many many patrons there have gone to the owner."

I would first check that statement out with the owner and see what their reply is. You're taking this as being the truth, the whole truth... but sadly people lie about these things to suit their own narrative. Add to this that you've never felt that anyone was giving you daggers or has actually made a comment then I would say a pinch of salt is what's needed here until you know for definite that the persons comment hold water.

I'll add to this that should the own say that people had commented then ask if they're willing (the owner) to tell you how they responded. Those complaining may have been given short shrift and told to put up with it or find somewhere else.

Finally if push comes to shove and it seems leaving is the most suitable outcome, thank the owner and their staff for obvious support over the past few years.

[DianeT]

Kimberly, I am sorry for what happened to you. I totally understand why you would never want to go to the men's restrooms while dressed, and I totally understand why women, or some of them, don't feel at ease with a man, dressed or not, in their restrooms. Life is complicated.

[docrobbysherry]

On the one hand I think this is complete BS, Kim! That any trans should have to give in to the knuckle dragging haters grinds my gears!:gg:

On the other hand I agree u definitely should NOT go back there if u r worried. It sounds like u were the only T there? That can make any dresser uncomfortable!:thumbsdn:

Google LGBT bars and clubs and you're bound to find one where Kim is welcomed and appreciated! Best wishes!:hugs:

[Sandi Beech]

I totally relate to the post by DianeT.

I have followed your posts about the confrontation. I just have not had much time to reply. It is always about risk versus reward at the end of the day, and I just do not get enough reward out of using the ladies room to take the risk. That said, LBGT clubs and bars are different, but I have never had a guy complain at me when I used the men?s room anywhere.

I still kind of crack up over two places I have been to. Trax club in Denver has a large bathroom with a bunch of stalls, men and women all welcome. Missy Bs in Kansas City, which is a really nice place, has a shared men and women?s restroom on the second floor but has urinals in there as well. I was joking with GGs about it when we were in there. We had a good laugh.

It seems like that club is not the best place to go anyhow. It is unfortunate that you do not have a good place to hang out as that can make all the difference.

Good luck to ya whatever you do.

Sandi

[Princess Chantal]

You could ask her - if you were to use the men’s washroom and some sort of violence or sexual abuse happens to you while doing so how would she feel? I bet it would weigh heavy on any descent person’s mind!

[Diane P]

Kimberly, as others have said sorry to hear that you have lost bar but to err on the side of safety is always prudent. Hopefully you will find another and more accepying place to go as Kimberly. This might also alleviate the possibility of running into your family when dressed as Kimberly.

[bridget thronton]

I hope you find a place where you can dress any way that makes you happy

[Genifer Teal]

Thankful to live so close to a place like New York City sometimes when you've got a good. You don't realize how good you got it. Thank you for enlightening me.
I'm sorry you had to go through all this.

[Stephanie47]

The polls that I have seen indicates there is wide support for transgender men and women however there is less support for trans women using the ladies room or changing facilities. I don't think an establishment serving alcohol is the best place to test the boundaries of acceptance. I know my wife is supportive of the trans community and is of that opinion. I think the best solution is to find a venue that caters to trans women or one that has single occupancy restrooms. As a side note I have been at large capacity venues/arenas where women have barged into the men's room to use a stall because the line for the ladies' room was extremely long. They just yell "lady on board" or something like that.

[kimdl93]

Polls not withstanding, I think its unlikely that any group of 100 people, or 10 will be unanimously supportive of a CD person, whether or not they are in the bathroom. Most of us would prefer to avoid confrontations, of course, but I suspect most of us would also use an alternate bathroom if we felt there was a chance that our presence in a ladies room was going to bother someone, whether or not that person openly objected.

[BrendaPDX]

I don't know what to say, maybe I shouldn't say anything. What I can say about myself and this venue is. You are special, we all are! Don't let them get you down. Yes, sad at times we need to be a little under the radar. But come to me, or us, and we will always be here for you. ALWAYS! Brenda

[alwayshave]

Kimberly, again, I'm sorry this is occurring to you. I agree with DianeT, I would never go in a men's room dressed. The truth is CDers are not a threat to women in the ladies room, but men are a threat to CDers.

[TheHiddenMe]

So yeah, I'm gonna have to look for a new place to hang out, someplace where I'll be accepted as Kimberly and not have to worry about getting beat up and where I can use the women's facilities without fear of that either.

If you really think you are going to find another place, in Tupelo, MS, where all of the women are going to be accepting, you are delusional.

Are you saying Holland's is the only place that attracts rednecks and their girlfriends? You can't really believe that. You are 99.99% unlikely to find an alternative place where all of the patrons are accepting.

The owners have said you are welcome. Take yes for an answer.

Your only other choice is not to go to a bar dressed, because you are not going to find the place you are seeking in Tupelo or its surrounds, because if you did, you would already be going there.

[OrdinaryAverageGuy]

I have friends ranging from Greenpeaceletsgetinthewayofawhalingshipanddie to Poorpeoplearefineifyouuseenoughbbqsauce. And yet I don't know a single person who would say anything, much less get violent, over a man in a dress in the women's room. Some might roll their eyes or make a quite comment to a friend, but that would be it. You found the 1 in a million retard, you should go buy a lottery ticket.

BUT I respect your decision to avoid the place. I question how many other patrons really complained, since the owner and staff didn't seem to see it as an issue, but at the end of the day it's your decision, which you've obviously thought out quite thoroughly. More than anything I hate that a bully wins. I hope you find another place to go sing in cute clothes that you love even more than you did this place. Requesting Freebird. Or Melancholy Baby.

[nancy58]

I'm sorry that you were forced into that decision. If you find yourself near DC, come to Freddie's Beach Bar in Arlington, Va. They have karaoke, and it's a straight-friendly gay bar. Everyone is welcome.

[SaraLin]

Kimberley,
I just have to ask this - but are you sure that the FB poster isn't the Karen herself, or maybe one of her cronies?

If you don't make any effort to confirm what you've been told, how do you know it's not just a scare tactic to chase you away (which it has)?

And unsurprisingly, I don't automatically subscribe to the "penis = men's room" theory. It's a lot more complicated than that.

(FWIW - I probably wouldn't go back either.)

[mbmeen12]

The power of the purse works well....Be safe....

[Kimberly A.]

True Heather, it is a shame cause I loved that bar in Tupelo and I love singing karaoke! LOL But thank you, I hope I do as well. :)

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Thank you Char, I do as well. :)

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Thank you, Krea. :) Well, there is an LGBYQ+ bar in Memphis, TN that I'm thinking of going to on Saturday..... They don't do karaoke on Saturdays though, just drag shows. LOL But you're absolutely right, safety IS priority. I'm NOT gonna put myself in danger just because I'm a man dressed like a woman.

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You're right about that, Kimmy. Imho, LGBTQ+ bars, (if you're into the bar scene) are the best places for CD'ers to hang out at, cause you don't really get any judgement from people..... Occasionally you might, cause I did that one time at the LGBTQ+ bar in Jackson, MS. Some lesbian girl there found out I was a CD and made this like, gagging gesture towards me..... *Eyeroll*

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I could not agree more, Aunt Kelly! :)

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Thank you Brenda, I do too. :)

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I completely agree, Jamie and thank you. :)

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Actually, TheHiddenMe, there aren't really any accepting bars in Tupelo, MS or the surrounding areas, unless it's Memphis, TN..... I've already looked. No, I'm not saying that Holland's is the only place that attracts rednecks and their women, just every bar in the southern US does.

But I don't care if the owner allows me to be there as Kimberly or not, FOR MY OWN SAFETY, I am NOT going back there!

And I'm GONNA go to a bar dressed, I just have to find an accepting one like the one I've found in Memphis. :bs:

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I have friends ranging from Greenpeaceletsgetinthewayofawhalingshipanddie to Poorpeoplearefineifyouuseenoughbbqsauce. And yet I don't know a single person who would say anything, much less get violent, over a man in a dress in the women's room. Some might roll their eyes or make a quite comment to a friend, but that would be it. You found the 1 in a million retard, you should go buy a lottery ticket.

Well OrdinaryAverageGuy, I don't know where you're from, or even if you're from the US..... I have gathered here, however that a lot of people on this forum have no idea what it's like living in the southern US, where judgmental, bigoted rednecks are EVERYWHERE. (If y'all can say "redneck" here without repercussions, then I can say this)..... The yankees in the northern states are way more accepting, it seems, of LGBTQ+, or CD'ers than rednecks are in the south. (There are rednecks in the northern states too, just sayin. :bs:) I mean sure, there ARE gay people in the south, some of them are out, some aren't and yes, just like in any other state if a crime is committed against a person of LGBTQ+ in the south, that crime is, of course punishable by law.

But my point is, a lot of you northern folks or folks from different countries do NOT know what it's like down in the southern US to have to deal with this and have to make hard decisions, like choosing to stay away from a place that I like because of bigots, haters and people who wanna kick my ass!

And I do, am afraid know people who would get violent over a man in a dress, utilizing the ladies' room.

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Cool Nancy, thank you! :) However, I'll probably never be able to go that bar, but it sounds fun! LOL

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SaraLin,
I am a 100% sure that the FB poster wasn't Karen. The woman who posted that, I met her and her boyfriend at the bar and they bought me a shot of tequila. :bs: She's and her bf are both very nice.
Honestly, I don't give a hoot if it WAS just a scare tactic, I'm NOT going back to that bar, PERIOD! If it wasn't a scare tactic, I'm still not gonna chance it. I hate it, but it is what it is and my decision on that is final.

I agree with your restroom theory, though. I mean, I met an F to M trans at the bar in Jackson, MS that I used to go to, he was a very nice guy and his wife was very nice too..... You wouldn't know he was trans and I'm 100% certain that he utilized men's rooms without fear of any kind of repercussions.

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LOL True, mbmmen12! :bs: But still, I ain't going back to that bar.

[Amelie]

I think the sad part is the club was a place you enjoyed to go and now can't cause of idiots.

There were many clubs and bars that I can't go into or was hassled in some way or another. But that was usually when I first went to a bar so there was no emotional attachment to the place. I don't disagree with you about rednecks and such but don't be misguided, there are places up north that a CD just can't walk into and feel at home. there were places where I lived in Baltimore that I knew I would be in trouble if I went there. And it wasn't rednecks. I kinda wish they were rednecks. Even CDs in NYC probably don't venture to bars in the Bronx and I am probably sure the same goes for UK Cds going to Mid Eastern establishments. There are places everywhere that people won't feel welcome or have some sort of confrontation with others, it's not just a southern thing. While not violent, gay bars were the worse places I went to, totally ignored the whole night. I now live in a sort of redneck area. Loud pick up trucks. For the most part people leave me alone, though i don't go to bars and clubs anymore. And I have miles of forest where I can enjoy, no need to worry which door to go through.

As I said, the sad part with your experience was that you had fun at that bar. And now it's gone, then again some bars close down and one can no longer go to them. Hold your head up and find a new place or a new type of experience to get enjoyment from.

[Kimberly A.]

Amelie, thank you for commenting. :) I completely agree. Yeah, I'll just have to find another place to hang out at..... As I've posted several times, I used to hang out at an LGBTQ+ bar in Jackson, MS when I lived closer to Jackson, but I moved back in February. I had to get outta the place that I lived in, because it really wasn't fit for anyone to live in. However, I do now regret moving from that area of Mississippi and I tried to find a place in that area, but nothing good was available, really. I regret moving because of what I've had to go through, with the whole bar thing and everything. I really miss the bar that I hung out at in Jackson. :( The people there were really cool, for the most part. I would talk to a lot of people, gay guys, lesbians, the drag queens who performed there on Saturday nights, I'd talk to them too, it didn't matter.

[Sandi Beech]

Hey Kimberly,

One thing I have noticed with all the traveling I have done is that generally speaking, cities with a population of 150,000 or more have decent places for us to go, even in the south. Of course Jackson, even as large as it is, has a very limited offering. Maybe that is an effect of the culture of the area as you mentioned.

Sadly some of these favorite spots come and go. I know 3911 reopened under a new name, but one of my favorite spots in Knoxville permanently closed. I am guessing they did not recover from the lack of business during the pandemic. Frankly I am surprised more have not closed.

I guess the bottom line, you have to decide how important getting out and having fun at places similar to 3911 are to you. It does make me wonder if Tupelo was the right move for you, but only you can figure that out.

Tata

Sandi

[Kimberly A.]

Hi Sandi,

Well, I do believe that my moving was the right choice for me, because I had to get outta the crap hole that I was living in. But believe you me, I really didn't want to move from central MS to north MS, (although I do love Tupelo, I was born and raised around Tupelo and I know that city like the back of my hand, although I am NOT a fan of Elvis, but that's beside the point LOL). However, I looked and looked around for places to move to that were in or around Kosciusko, (where I moved out of) and there was really nothing decent. Any place would've been around high-crimed areas and I wasn't gonna move to an area like that. LOL So, I chose to move to north MS, close to Tupelo.

Now as far as a place to hang out at while CD'd, it's true there really is, it seems, no good place in Tupelo for a CD'er to hang out at and tbh, that's really the only negative thing about my moving. Although I've only been to one bar in Tupelo, I'd imagine every bar in Tupelo would probably be the same way..... They do NOT want a man dressed like a woman to be using the ladies' rooms. So therefore, I'm not even gonna attempt to go to any other bar in Tupelo while en femme. I've found an LGBTQ+ bar in Memphis via Google search that I'm gonna check out tonight as Kimberly and we'll see how it goes. :bs:

TTFN

Kimberly

[Rhonda Jean]

Maybe there's a lesson here we've been dancing around. When you have to go to the bathroom, you have to go. But... I've never been wild about going to the ladies room, and I'm damn sure not going to the men's room. Particularly at a bar. For me anyway (and I don't think I'm that unusual) a couple of hours would be about as long as I want to be there anyway. If you go to the restroom right before, is it that hard to not go to the bathroom for 2 hours? If the bathroom is the problem (the whole place sounds like a place I wouldn't hang out at anyway) seems like you could probably pretty easily avoid it, even if that meant leaving a little earlier than you might want to.

I know I'll hear "She should be able to go to the bathroom wherever she wants", but I think we've concluded that... maybe not. I think if you try to avoid going to the ladies room in shady places, you can avoid it almost all the time. I know that just walking through the door that says "Ladies" is kind of the cherry on top of a going-out experience for some, but it really shouldn't be. I get that the first couple of times it's a right of passage. Got to get over that.

[laurenchanning]

Sorry you went through that. A few months ago I was in NYC and attended an off Broadway show. There was one bathroom with 4 stalls for both men and women. Nobody was accosted or bothered?everyone just did their business, washed their hands and left. If there was a drawback is was that men actually had to wait in line just like women always have due to the historical disparity in facilities between the sexes.

[Kimberly A.]

Rhonda Jean, I agree with some of what you said. The bar that I was frequenting in Tupelo, isn't a shady bar..... Some of the patrons there just don't like a man dressed as a woman using the ladies' room with their women in there at the same time, which I understand. So therefore, I'm never going back to that particular bar again. If I can't go there as Kimberly, (although I went there ONCE in drab), then I'm not gonna go there at all anymore. So yeah, that place is easy for me to avoid and really, it's no big loss.... Not like it's a life-or-death situation, or the end of the world if I don't go there! LOL

You said, "I know that just walking through the door that says "Ladies" is kind of the cherry on top of a going-out experience for some, but it really shouldn't be. I get that the first couple of times it's a right of passage. Got to get over that." Um, I think it's STILL a right of passage and how can we "get over that"?? I mean, if you're out presenting as a woman and you have to use the restroom, how can you NOT use the ladies' room? Also, I'm a truck driver as most if not everyone here knows, so I CAN hold it for hours on-end. However, (and I'm not talking about drinking alcohol here, of course) I don't drink as much while I'm driving as I do, (talking about drinking alcohol now), at a bar. And no matter what you're drinking, whether it's an alcoholic beverage or not, when you drink a lot of it, you WILL have to use the restroom quite a bit! LOL I mean, it's a no-brainer.

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Thanks, Lauren. :) Well, it's ok..... No big loss, really that I'm not gonna go back to that bar. LOL But it's cool about that restroom in NYC. However, I wouldn't be caught dead in NYC! Sorry, but that city is jut too crowded and too high-crimed for my taste.

[DianeT]

I think Rhonda Jean meant "rite of passage" but the smartphone's dictionary had the final word :)

[Rhonda Jean]

Thanks for the correction, Diane.

Kimberley. We make a lot of people uncomfortable. Whether they should or shouldn't be uncomfortable around us is beside the point. If that's how they feel, that's how they feel. It's not an excuse for them to act out, but to me it's on us to go out of our way to make people more comfortable around us, not less. I know there are many who disagree. That's just me. Like it or not, the bathroom is a "thing" for a lot of people. If I can avoid it, I will. I understand completely why a woman would feel vulnerable. Again, whether she should or not is not a matter for someone else to decide. Besides being in a vulnerable position, it's a small space, uncomfortably "intimate" (if you'll excuse a poor choice of words), and she's uncomfortable being in there with someone who sets of some alarms for her. Could be you, could be me. I get it.

I get out a lot in male mode with just my nails done sandals or ladies' flip flops, and leggings. I avoid public men's rooms, too, but when it's unavoidable I'm the one feeling vulnerable.

We expect people to be respectful of us even when they don't understand or disagree with our lifestyle. We should do the same.

[Diane P]

Very well said Rhonda, I agree with you completely.

[TAG]

The general population really don't understand CDs and put them in the trans catagory and right now that is hurting the CD folks just trying to enjoy dressing and going out.

[April Rose]

Kimberly, it's your safety, and you know the area best, so it's your call.

But in defense of good old New York:
The Ten Most Dangerous cities in the U.S.
1 St. Louis, Missouri
2 Mobile, Alabama
3 Birmingham, Alabama
4 Baltimore, Maryland
5 Memphis, Tennessee
6 Detroit, Michigan
7 Cleveland, Ohio
8 New Orleans, Louisiana
9 Shreveport, Louisiana
10 Baton Rouge, Louisiana


10 Safest Cities


1 Honolulu, Hawaii
2 Virginia Beach, Virginia
3 Henderson, Nevada
4 El Paso, Texas
5 New York City, New York
6 San Diego, California
7 Mesa, Arizona
8 Charlotte, North Carolina
9 San Jose, California
10 Boston, Massachusetts