Labels

[EmilyShy]

Hi was wondering if Crossdressing comes under a LGBT etc umbrella.

Seeing as a lot of CD are straight people just wanting to dress differently. I understand if your Bi curious or other non heterosexual actions or thoughts would mean you are in that description as them things apply even when not dressed but I'm just talking about Crossdressing in general

[OrdinaryAverageGuy]

There's been much argument in previous threads over that, but I'll stand firm with a No. I'm not lesbian, not gay, not bi, and not trans. I'm very straight and I have no problem being or remaining a man. In other words, I'm just a crossdresser.

Others here ARE gay, or bi, or are transitioning, or want to transition, so they would fit under the umbrella, but "crossdressing" doesn't imply any of those things, it's just about dressing.

[SaraLin]

There are plenty of good arguments for both sides of this question.
I tend to believe that it's more about what's going on inside a person's head.
To me, it's less about what you're wearing than about why you're wearing it.
And there are a whole bunch of possible reasons.
So, I'll just have to shrug and answer "I really don't know. Do you feel like you do?"

[Shelly Preston]

Emily

The best label is one you choose yourself.

I always considered crossdressing to come under the 'T' part of LGBT.
This is because your are perceived to be crossing gender boundaries.

[Deborah G]

The problem with any label is that they tend to be all encompassing. Even though we may consider cross dressing to be just dressing, the public at large considers all such activities under a large umbrella, due to a lack of knowledge and understanding.

[alwayshave]

Emily, Like Shelly, I believe the CDs are under the T umbrella.

[Jade P]

I would say yes I feel that crossdressing fits under the transgender umbrella. I dont live full time as a transwoman but I am on the transgender spectrum.

[Crissy 107]

I agree, we are somewhere under the T

[Michelle1955]

I do not like all the different labels.
But the definition of Transgender term is a very generic term used for crossdressers on one side to transsexual on the other side and everything in between. Is my understanding, the news and general public does not know do their research so their is the disconnect.

[Kris Burton]

I agree with Crissy, Jade, Jamie and others. I think the assessment that we are all under the "T" umbrella is the proper one. As a crossdresser I am proud and revel in being included in that wide spectrum.

[Krisi]

I am a straight male crossdresser. I am not "L", "G", "B" or "T".

If you insist on calling me one of the above, you will be insulting me.

[MarinaTwelve200]

So am I Krisi--- People have a tendency to confuse the VERB with the Person. That's one reason the term "Transvestite" was used to describe us, instead of plain ol' "Cross-Dresser" like today.--- The reason there ARE "Labels" is to differentiate us from Homosexuals, Transsexuals and those in between who ALSO cross-Dress (verb) for various reasons. There is a BIG DIFFERENCE and we are often confused with LGBTs--and unfortunately, often suffer THEIR "pain" for it.

I believe SOME of the CDers are under the TG umbrella, but not ALL of us are. For many CDing is an Erotic thing and the dressing is to evoke the feeling. For others it serves as a "disconnect" from ones "self" or "psyche" that evokes a pleasurable "High" or emotional or stress release. Not ALL CDers feel being cross-dressed is "the real me". Many like to become "the NOT ME". Being into it for "Thrills" is not necessarily "Transgender." One is only TG if they IDENTIFY with the opposite biosex.

[GretchenM]

There are no clear lines that differentiate different identity forms. It is somewhat like a rainbow where the colors change over a narrow transition zone rather than having distinct lines. Although the colors in a rainbow have definite names that does not mean they are associated with a particular, wavelength of light - it covers a range of wavelengths that, to us, appear similar. The fact is each change in the wavelength of light produces a unique color, but we don't perceive that and our brains blend different colors at different wavelengths into a single color so we can deal with all that variation more easily.

Same thing in the gender spectrum. So, I suggest you not get hung up on labels but keep it broad and flexible so individuals can identify with who they are rather than with a specific group. CD is clearly on the edge of the T spectrum. Using a particular gender expression that differs from the broad zone of cisgender expression needs to have more of a motivation than "I just want to." The question is why do you want to?

Most all of our choices, although they seem to be under our conscious control, they aren't. Those choices are made elsewhere in the brain based on neurological configurations, some of which are genetic but all of which are highly modified by experiences that pattern the plasticity of the brain to adapt to all of the information that it is gathering every moment of your life. Your consciousness really can't handle all that information at once; so to speak, it take 99 billion out of 100 billion total neurons to do that - your consciousness is in the remaining 1 billion neurons. (Those are not exact numbers of course, just an example.) As the neuroscientists say, "There is no such thing as a conscious decision." In fact your consciousness receives the results of a choice that is made elsewhere and thus implements in a carefully directed fashion the choice with your own awareness and "wisdom."

The very definition of transgender, a concept first described in 1969, allows for a wide range of phenomena to be included. The definition is basically and somewhat simplified as, "A person who SELF identifies, constantly or intermittently, with the gender that is opposite that which would be expected based on the person's sex." And Gender Dysphoria is the negative feeling one gets where they sense a conflict in their identity with what is preferred to be their identity, some of the time or all of the time. The high end of transgender is someone who transitions because that is the state where they have the least dysphoria in the self identity. At the other end is generally the CD who shows only smaller amounts of dysphoria (pink fog), mostly self identifies as cisgender, but still has this need to express as the opposite gender because of subconscious decisions that are being made that create a motivation to express in a particular way that is inconsistent with expectations. There is no right or wrong way to express yourself in clothing and other aspects - there are just different ways.

[Maid_Marion]

The general public really doesn't care about such distinctions. They are far too busy with their own lives.

"Whatever you say, that is fine with me" is more likely what they are really thinking.

What do you what them to do with the label? Arguing about your version is one way to make them remember you as CD or TG, if that is what you want.
But, from what I read here, while some CDs what to be seen in public, many would prefer their neighbors not know.

[Aunt Kelly]

Gender identity and sexual preference are two different things. Much of the professional community still uses "transgender" to cover all forms of gender non-conforming, e.g. crossdressers, non-binary, etc. Nevertheless, confusion and debate over labels and their definitions will always be present because, as The Dude says, "That's just like, your opinion, man."

[docrobbysherry]

What auntie said! The issue is this:

Lesbo, Gay, Bi all r folks who prefer non-typical sex partners.:o

While Trans refers to a person with self gender issues. And, says nothing about the gender of who they choose for their sex partner(s)!:straightface:

So, vanilla folks r often confused that most M to F trans r straight!:eek:

[NewGirlChloe]

I would say I?m still entirely heterosexual, if being my full authentic self means I come under the trans umbrella then I?ll be ready to accept that.

[ShelbyDawn]

The thing with labels like LGBTQABC+++, is that they seem to be defined by society, by people outside the group.

We don't really have much control over where any individual puts us.
I'm most comfortable ignoring the labels and just being me.

There are people that will argue all day that to be bi means you are gay or lesbian or that the T doesn't belong with the LGB at all.
Ok. Knock yourself out arguing over something that petty and insignificant. I'll just sit her and watch the fireworks.

Where do we as cross dressers fit, well, I'd say we are more than a standard deviation from the median, so someone will try to put us in a box somewhere.

I personally am not going to worry about it because almost all of the things in the list of letters exist on a continuum, and I'd wager that the majority of people under that umbrella probably touch at least two of the letters in some way. I mean, I've been to gay bar and seen the super macho biker guys in the booty shorts. Defiantly gay, but those shorts are a touch of cross dressing. I'm just not going to point that out to somebody that looks like he could break me in half.

Ah, I'm rambling again... :)

Pick a letter if you want to. Don't if you don't. Maybe those that want to have a label could start a movement changing the whole thing to LGBTQC+++
The rest of us can just go shopping for another pair of cute heels to wear with a dress we haven't bought yet. :)

[MonicaPVD]

If you go out in public and interact with humans while dressed, you fall under the trans umbrella because you are putting yourself out there in a manner that the average observer cannot easily distinguish from a trans or no binary person. If you only dress in the privacy of your home, you are not representing yourself in public and are therefore just a guy who likes to crossdress. I think that is a pretty clear distinction.

[siva]

I would still call myself a CD than any other labels. When it comes to going out to places, then I have to pick a LGBT friendly place to go.

[EmilyShy]

Thank you all for all your insights a wide spectrum of opinions. I have mainly thought of my self as gender fluid but upon searching for CD support groups locally there don't seem to be any. LBGTetcetc groups are the only ones that come up. Was not sure if people out there class CDing as being part of that or not. I've read that Trans people frown upon CD or MIAD as being fake attention seekers (a situation that I find hard to understand as they are the first to cry foul if Cis people don't accept them) I was thinking of checking out some of these local groups but very cautious about if I would fit in and wanted to see other peoples perspective of the Label

Many many thanks Emily

[Fiona_44]

The definition of "transgendered" that I prefer is - Someone who presents as opposite of the gender they were assigned at birth - and the concept of the "transgendered spectrum" was created in the 1980's as an umbrella term to encompass all such individuals. Therefore, because I live 24/7 as a woman, I am somewhere on that spectrum.

I sometimes refer to myself as trans and always describe myself as a heterosexual, non-transitioning crossdresser.

[Georgina]

I think the word crossdresser should be removed from the dictionary. Why are we still being referred to as crossdressers? If the word is not used for women it should not be used for men either. I call myself a dresser and the only trans I am is transformed.

[NewGirlChloe]

I'm thinking of myself more and more as a 'dresser', I love that way of thinking :)

[Becky Bloodstone]

I consider myself gender fluid, a man or woman at any point in time. I also call myself a crossdresser which confuses a lot of people. The reason I call myself a crossdresser is because I look very much like a man naturally and in order to express my woman side the way I want to I have to crossdress. In recent years I think crossdressers have become villianized by the LGBT community which i think is completely unfair. Yes, some crossdressers are just men who like to wear women's clothes, and that's fine. Others will eventually become a part of the LGBT community in one way or another. I've heard a few reports of transgender women being treated poorly by crossdressers, but I'm sure these crossdressers are a very small minority and are probably acting that way because they are in denial about themselves. I have a saying, nobody likes crossdressers. There's the straight "cis" umbrella and the LGBTQ umbrella and the crossdressers are kind of just left out in the rain.

[Sometimes Steffi]

I also believe that it's what's going on inside your head. But, if something bad happens to me while I'm out, and I survive, you can bet that what's going on inside my head is "T". If someone is going to beat the stuffing out of me, claiming to be "T" can make it a hate crime. Being "just a CD" offers no protection against a hate crime.

[Nyla F]

Does Crossdressing come under a LGBT etc umbrella? That word umbrella is the key, if using Transgender as an umbrella term yes.

hrc.org describes it as an umbrella term covering gender identity and expression, but gladd.org focuses on the gender identity part.

Obviously from the responses here, there is no unanimous agreement in this community on Transgender being an umbrella term.

So you can use the term either way, and as a CD you can choose to identify as trans or not. It's up to you.

[oh to be rachel]

I've always considered myself straight as a ruler, however in a dress (at a Halloween party) with guys groping and such, it was really confusing.

[Rhonda Jean]

Ahhh, we hate those labels, don't we? Or do we just wish there was one for our very own? We sure like to point out the ones we're not, so I guess they serve some purpose. The string of letters is getting so long that I think it's only some mythical person that is not included in one of those, and that person probably is too, they'd just rather die than admit it. Find you a letter or two and join the movement! For the record, it hasn't been that long ago that I didn't think I had a letter, either. Now, depending on when we're talking about, I think I am or have been every damn one of them. A picture of diversity, I am! Maybe it'll get me a government contract or... I better stop before I get in trouble.

Somewhere along the way, some combination of creams, compounds and elixirs that were supposed to make me look like a Kardashian must've made my skin pretty thick. I am literally unmoved by any of these terms. Even the pronouns. Now, when I'm gendered female I love it (guess that counts as being moved). When I get "sir" I don't like it, but I don't get pissed about it. Tells me I need to try harder, and if it bothers me I better stay in the house.

I'm getting old. Hell, who am I kidding. I am old! I grew up when gay, queer, etc. were "fightin' words". The most offensive terms in the English language. Some still consider them that. To others they're a badge of honor. Some of those terms I still don't quite get. I mean, when I was a kid I knew what queer meant. Now it seems it can mean a lot of things, and when you say it, nobody knows what it really means. It's still amusing to me to see some post or video where some mom refers to her kid as queer. For a second I'm back in elementary school and my 10 year old mind is totally blown to hear that come from a mom. Then I'm back in the present and realize I have no idea what that means anymore. Probably more about what it says one is not, rather than what one is. Hard for an old girl to keep up!

I don't know if every single letter and symbol in that abbreviation applies to me (does anybody even know what it all means?), but the ones that do would make a strong password.

[Debbie Denier]

When I started to dress as a teenager. I contacted a local support group. The term LGBT and CD were not mainstream at the time . Most members of the group considered themselves as transvestites or TVs and were heterosexual.I got married, had kids and ditched CD for many years . It came back with a vengeance in my 5os after a bereavement. I tried to re establish contact with the support group only to find it had folded in 2004. I found a LGBT support group, but felt like an outsider and not as welcome .The emphasis was on transgender . There were no hetro CD members. Hence I stopped going. The label has changed from TV to CD as not as derogatory.

[Stephanie47]

It seems like society is incapable of doing anything other than checking off a box. That alphabet string seems to get longer and longer. If anyone were to ask me where I fit in I'd respond with sentences and paragraphs. If you answer with one word then the questioner gets to decide what box you belong in based on their own bias or lack of knowledge. Maybe my answer, if I were to choose one or two words, would be akin to a political poll: "Independent" dresser rather than strictly "male" or "female."

[DianeT]

I am a straight male crossdresser. I am not "L", "G", "B" or "T".

If you insist on calling me one of the above, you will be insulting me.

They won't be insulting you. You may feel insulted (why, by the way?), but that is your problem. As for them, they are just doing a mistake, generally in good faith, since the crowd tends to consider CDers to be gay, and you have the liberty to politely correct them if you so wish.

As for labels, everyone puts what they want in them, so I'm ok to fall under the T umbrella, and I'm also fine baking in the sun next to it.

- - - Updated - - -


I tend to believe that it's more about what's going on inside a person's head.
To me, it's less about what you're wearing than about why you're wearing it.

I couldn't agree more.

[TheHiddenMe]

There is no consensus whether crossdressers fall under the Transgender Umbrella, either on places like Wikipedia or on this board. I went to a transgender conference about five years ago and their definition was that crossdressers do fit under the transgender umbrella, and so in that regards I consider myself to be part of the T.

And contrary to the opinions of some here, 1) the definition of crossdressing is NOT limited to MTF, nor 2) does crossdressing equal sexual orientation (you can be gay or bi or a lesbian and be a crossdresser, although survey's suggest most MTF crossdressers are heterosexual).

And as a guest to one of our meetings once said, "When you've met one transgender person you've met one transgender person." It's not one size fits all.

I am a male who likes to "present female" from time to time, so crossdresser is probably the best adjective for me. YMMV.

[Karren H]

The only labels I use, come from my old Dyno label maker!

[GretchenM]

Reading through all the various responses to Emily's question is absolutely fascinating. All are so wonderful.

What I see is that the phrase "Self Identify" in the transgender definition applies so beautifully. You are what you believe fits you the best which really makes the various classifications pretty meaningless and leads me to a conclusion that it is all a continuum with no real nodes or divisions other than what we, as individuals, create. In some ways LGBTQ+whatever kind of forms a group all of its own that is a wonderful menagerie of really interesting people that are different in various ways from the usual.

But is the "usual" really a distinct unit itself? Who or what forms the boundary between "usual" and the people in our group? Isn't that perhaps just as ill defined in reality as any of the others? And what about people in other cultures than ours who see it very differently?

My conclusion is that with regard to behaviors that are related to self identity is a huge mosaic of different colored chips each representing an individual. But when you stand back you see a silhouette that looks an awful lot like a member of the species Homo sapiens. We are all one family but we have this compulsion to create classifications that don't mean a thing and yet mean so much. Paradoxical!

[jacques]

hello Emily,
I consider myself to be on the T-spectrum.
luv J

[April Rose]

When speaking with professionals; medical, electrolysis, counselors, S.A.s etc. I always identify myself as in the transgender spectrum. It seems to mitigate the awkwardness of having to be too specific.

[Bri]

Excellent MarinaTwelve200. I agree 100%.

[Jacqueline Winona]

This discussion has been going on for years. Those who want to be part of the larger T group say yes, those who don't consider themselves part of the bigger T group say no. Personally, I see CD as something much different than what true TG people feel, so I say know, but many others disagree. It always struck me as odd that a group that rejects so many traditional notions about M-F roles needs to address labels like this, but to each their own and who am I to tell anyone how to live their life? Best answer I can give you is that if you believe you belong, you can find a place where you do. If you believe you're not part of the group, for whatever reason you have, you're not. Just be cool to those who are and be a supportive ally, nothing else anyone can ask of you.

[crobeson96]

Crossdressing is a behavior for which the reasons are many and infinitely varied. You could be any of the letters under LGBT or none of them and enjoy crossdressing just as you could be any of these and not even understand why someone would want to wear clothing associated with the sex that wasn't assigned at your birth.

As a behavior I think of crossdressing like a cough -- it is a symptom. Medical folks learn very quickly the distinction between symptoms and the conditions which cause them.

Perhaps there is a 'soft' meaning of transgender which would include persons who crossdress as that behavior alone, without any others, crosses traditional male-female boundaries in a visible way.

I disagree with characterizing crossdressing under Transgender as that term implies specific emotions and feelings that deserve their own consideration. That is emphatically my personal opinion and I don't in any way mean it in a strident way as there is enough of that to go around already. I have enjoyed reading this thread and our insights into our personal mysteries.

[Helen_Highwater]

There's been much argument in previous threads over that, but I'll stand firm with a No. I'm not lesbian, not gay, not bi, and not trans. I'm very straight and I have no problem being or remaining a man. In other words, I'm just a crossdresser.

Others here ARE gay, or bi, or are transitioning, or want to transition, so they would fit under the umbrella, but "crossdressing" doesn't imply any of those things, it's just about dressing.

i too would class myself as a straight, heterosexual male but that doesn't in itself stop us being part of a wider community. The advice often offered here to those seeking to go out for the first time is to go to a LGBT friendly venue. If you're one of the community who goes out and about then it's highly unlikely you're going to walk like John Wayne with a felling axe over your shoulder swigging from a can of beer. For the majority their aim is to present as feminine a persona as they can, hence as Shelly says below, transitioning gender norms.

LBGT isn't solely about sexual preference and I can see for some who dress within 4 walls or class themselves as a MAID the reasoning not to include themselves in that wider community. And while each of us as individuals is free to choose the label they want, it would seem that for society at large, they see us as part of the LGBT grouping. I'm happy with that. For me, that puts us on the side of the good guys.


Emily

The best label is one you choose yourself.

I always considered crossdressing to come under the 'T' part of LGBT.
This is because your are perceived to be crossing gender boundaries.

[CDMargret]

Heck I don't know. Love reading all the responses here as they help me to understand why I like sitting here in a dress. Physically and mentally I feel better in clothing made for women. They are pretty. Men's clothing just doesn't feel right on me. Even when I find men's shirts in the same materials I still prefer a woman's blouse. And for me it's not sexual. I prefer women over men.

So what am I? Just a boy in a dress or am I in that T spectrum. For me I don't need labels and yet understand some need them to help understand who they are or want to be. So I say labels may be of help to some, not to others, insulting to a few. Just be respectful to each other. Educate yourself as to not offend others. Enjoy what you enjoy.