Another way to look at suicidal feelings

[Rachel Ann]

Since this subject has come up a couple of times recently, I thought that I would share this. I posted it on a couple of depression support boards that I frequent, and it got a positive reaction. (If anybody recognizes this, *please* keep it low, I'm not ready to come out in that world yet.)

Here goes nothing

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Here follows the “suicidal thinking index” that I use as a "thermometer" for my mental state. And a way of deciding whether I need external help.

I didn't read this anywhere, I just compiled it based on my own experience. All I can say is that others with whom I have shared it generally concurred.

I have been in all these places except, obviously, (9).

At present, I am usually at (1). I don't usually get scared before I reach (5). It would appear that not everyone necessarily experiences each consecutive stage.


(1) Unwelcome thoughts of suicide, actively pushed away

(2) Thinking about it, but not obsessively

(3) Feeling suicidal

(4) Ideating (i.e. imagining, often obsessively)

(5) Planning and/or making active preparations

(6) Lame* attempt

(7) Serious* attempt

(8) Attempt ("Lame" or "Serious") leading to medical intervention

(9) Attempt resulting in death

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*"Lame" and "Serious" refer to your level of motivation, not what you actually did.

For example I have sometimes "attempted" knowing in the back of my mind that I didn't truly intend it, was just playing with it. That is what I mean by "Lame".

I called the attempt "Serious" when I know I really mean it and when it failed I was just inept, not ambivalent. I can recognize it by a special state of mind, others doubtless have other ways to tell.

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Love to all. BE SAFE. What happens to one of us affects all of us <3

[Amelie]

There is one thing that I have noticed about suicide. I find people go into a deep depression, but I find this is not when suicide happens. From what I've seen, there is this complete happiness, that comes after the depression, then suicide is commited. From the few times I have come into contact with or heard stories of people who have commited suicide, there is this feeling of peace and contentment before the act happens. It is at this point that intervention is a must, or it is too late. I don't know if there is any science to this, it is just what I have witnessed or heard from friends who have also witnessed this behavior. So if someone out there knows someone who wants to commit suicide, and then magicly they are very happy, this is a warning that they intend to go through with it.

This is only what I have experienced, there may be other theories.
Love Amelie

[Marlene4a]

Definition of Suicide - Listening to a LIE from the opposed spiritual side, hating humans. I rest my case.

Love

[Rachel Ann]

Amelie, Marlene - based on my own experience, I absolutely agree with both of you. On the (not all that many) occasions that I have gotten close, I found myself in a sort of rapture. This never lasts for more than 3 days, which, fortunately, is the waiting period to buy a gun in this state.

[KewTnCurvy GG]

Well, in the field of mental health there are two general distinction we make. Passive suicidal thoughts, which may entail thoughts of death, feeling hopeless/helpless, thinking that others may be better off without you, etc. Or active suicidal thoughts entailing the former but with either plans of how to or what will happen after your gone (i.e., taking out a will, funeral planning, etc.). These are the two general ways in which this is viewed. And as for the period of 'bliss/euphoria', those that are not ambivalent--that is, have decided to commit suicde and seeing this as their only option--most often succeed and do not tell others. Therefore, they may be the ones of which you speak Amelie, they seem happy, almost content before they actually do commit suicide. We, in the field, know that if someone has been depressed and then there is an abrupt change in their mood for the good--it is a warning sign. Clinicians worth their salt need to heed it as it usually preceeds a serious attempt. Thank you, Rachel Ann, for your words of wisdom here. And thank you, Amelie and Marlene, for sharing your thoughts and experiences. I do believe that suicide and thoughts of it are representative of self-hate or loathing. They do not come from a 'good' place within us.

hugs
kew

[Marlene4a]

Yes KewT you are correct in many ways.

I have spent a lot of time talking to people in mental wards, and the same type of thought seems to come to mind of these people.

Feeling of self worth: Less than normal.
Feeling of unworthiness toward others: The majority.
Thoughts of slipping into a dark hole, and going under the earth in darkness, feeling hopelessness: Again the majority.

Yes you are right: Feeling that others would be better off without them: Again a Lie.


Summary: They are listening to LIEs and believing them.

Love

[KewTnCurvy GG]

Well I appreciate your input here too, Marlene, I was just making the point of how someone may feel at that point. If you want to reach someone, you often have to understand where they're coming from. Do I think someone's thinking--even my own--was distorted and not reality based during these moments--YES! But at the time, they seem really real and all that one can think of. Depression does have a biological component, I'm convinced of that. I've struggled with it off and on since I was 7. I am all to familiar with it and the black clouds that hang over one during those times. Believe me, if ppl could just 'will' it away, no one would ever be depressed. But as with all things human, that is easier said than done and the answers aren't so simple.

hugs
kew

[Sweet Susan]

Suicide leaves no options. What else needs to be said?

[Sharon]

Suicide leaves no options. What else needs to be said?


Short and sweet, but positively correct.

[Wendy me]

i have been trying to respond to this way to hard lost a freind to it ate his gun over 5 years ago still ****ing with all left behind your problems go when you kill yourslefe the people that loved and cared for you are left shartted for life it is a thoughtless act think of the people you leave behind
sorry if this pissesss any one off
all thoughts of this seek help
suicide kills part of who you leave behind

[Stephanie Brooks]

Suicide leaves no options. What else needs to be said?
I don't understand your comment.

IANAC (I am not a counselor), but here's a book I found to be quite interesting: "Night Falls Fast: Understanding Suicide", by Kay Redfield Jamison.

Your thoughts on this one Kew?

I'm roughly half way through the book, and much of what appears in the first part regards suicide and mental illness, with a focus on bi-polar afflicted people. What bi-polar people experience is chilling to me.

My hope is the book will cover other suicide situations.

Based on Rachel Ann's scale, I've been at 5 a few times. Being an engineer, I have no intention of doing 6-8. I've turned back on my own each time. I am not bi-polar, and am otherwise of good physical and mental health. There are times, however, when the thought of ending my life has been considered a viable option, whether reasonable or not.

Sweet Susan, your comment could be taken in a way that says, "A person who suicides is just being foolish and should 'get over it'. Who could possibly think such things?" Someone without sufficient resilience might not take well to such a view.

In the US, according to the National Institute of Health, for year 2001, "The total number of suicide deaths was 30,622," and "Suicides outnumbered homicides (20,308) by three to two."

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/suicideprevention/suifact.cfm

You said, "Suicide leaves no options. What else needs to be said?" I think 30,000 suicides a year might leave something else to be said.

[Rachel Ann]

Well said, Stephanie

Suicide is never a rational act, of course. (Well, except for people dying horribly of an excruciatingly painful disease like cancer or AIDS). Often there is an element of compulsion in there as well as pain and feeling hopeless. My point is that there is usually no way to use logic to talk someone out of it.

For my part, I have had what they now call "major depression" all my life. I am convinced that it is a hereditary, neurochemical disease. Many things can trigger an episode but then it has a life of its own and isn't ABOUT anything.

Btw, some people report being at levels like 4.5 or 2.5, that's ok. And some people skip levels. That's ok too. This scale is nothing orthodox, just a way of thinking about it that I composed.

And yes, (((Wendy Me))), suicide is a VERY selfish and hurtful act.

[MrforNow]

Rachel Ann, this is a good article. Thank you. My father died of suicide when I was 10. I inherited severe clinical depression tendencies from him, so I am told. I have been as far as 8, was hospitalized for a short time, and received a good deal of therapy afterwards including being on anti-depressants for 2 years. I am happy to say that I have been off of them for 2 years now. Unless you've actuually been there, you just can't imagine how it feels or what the thoughts are like.